Hi Skunktoids, We got this deal from some ISP which I won't name for now, and they tell us that our speeds are 1MBps for both the uplink and downlink, but I highly doubt what they are telling us. Files normally download at a speed of 100kbps on average, and I do not think that that correctly reflects what the ISP is saying. However, I am not an expert on this matters, and that is why I have sought to ask the gurus on the list to shed some light. Attached hereto is a speedtest.net result graphic for more info. Thanks. Me. -- שִׁמְעוֹן
Simon, I hope that your router has SNMP. Please get SNMP graphs from the ISP. Any ISP worth its *I* will give you access to your usage graphs. Then conduct tests with heavy downloads from the internet (perhaps a heavily seeded torrent), that will show you what download speeds you are able to achieve. Still not a guru but aiming there [?] Please note this is a just a test to see your available throughput. 2009/9/29 Simon Mbuthia <simon.mbuthia@gmail.com>
Hi Skunktoids,
We got this deal from some ISP which I won't name for now, and they tell us that our speeds are 1MBps for both the uplink and downlink, but I highly doubt what they are telling us. Files normally download at a speed of 100kbps on average, and I do not think that that correctly reflects what the ISP is saying. However, I am not an expert on this matters, and that is why I have sought to ask the gurus on the list to shed some light.
Attached hereto is a speedtest.net result graphic for more info. Thanks.
Me.
-- שִׁמְעוֹן
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Regards, -- Lusiola Brian Everyone has photographic memory, not everyone has film though.
Most download software measures downloads in Bps not bps. 100 KBps = 800Kbps = 0.8 Mbps. For a 1Mbps link, downloading at 0.8mbps is utilising 80% of the capacity which seems fair at peak hours. On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Simon Mbuthia <simon.mbuthia@gmail.com>wrote:
Hi Skunktoids,
We got this deal from some ISP which I won't name for now, and they tell us that our speeds are 1MBps for both the uplink and downlink, but I highly doubt what they are telling us. Files normally download at a speed of 100kbps on average, and I do not think that that correctly reflects what the ISP is saying. However, I am not an expert on this matters, and that is why I have sought to ask the gurus on the list to shed some light.
Attached hereto is a speedtest.net result graphic for more info. Thanks.
Me.
-- שִׁמְעוֹן
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We asked for utilisation graphs and were given some story which unfortunately, sikumbuki... but will see what to do. I am not sure about the SNMP part. Will find out. 2009/9/29 m mugo <mugo2of3@gmail.com>
Most download software measures downloads in Bps not bps. 100 KBps = 800Kbps = 0.8 Mbps. For a 1Mbps link, downloading at 0.8mbps is utilising 80% of the capacity which seems fair at peak hours.
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Simon Mbuthia <simon.mbuthia@gmail.com>wrote:
Hi Skunktoids,
We got this deal from some ISP which I won't name for now, and they tell us that our speeds are 1MBps for both the uplink and downlink, but I highly doubt what they are telling us. Files normally download at a speed of 100kbps on average, and I do not think that that correctly reflects what the ISP is saying. However, I am not an expert on this matters, and that is why I have sought to ask the gurus on the list to shed some light.
Attached hereto is a speedtest.net result graphic for more info. Thanks.
Me.
-- שִׁמְעוֹן
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-- שִׁמְעוֹן
Simon 0.78Mbps is quite ok, anything more than that will be over-utilization. Check if your ISP has put limiters on your link. In addition to that,your connection to the ISP could be 1Mbps, but your ISP is connected to the internet much slower, or a lot of people sharing your ISPs connection to the internet. Also the server you are downloading from might not be able to deliver files beyond 100kbps. 2009/9/29 Simon Mbuthia <simon.mbuthia@gmail.com>
We asked for utilisation graphs and were given some story which unfortunately, sikumbuki... but will see what to do. I am not sure about the SNMP part. Will find out.
2009/9/29 m mugo <mugo2of3@gmail.com>
Most download software measures downloads in Bps not bps.
100 KBps = 800Kbps = 0.8 Mbps. For a 1Mbps link, downloading at 0.8mbps is utilising 80% of the capacity which seems fair at peak hours.
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Simon Mbuthia <simon.mbuthia@gmail.com>wrote:
Hi Skunktoids,
We got this deal from some ISP which I won't name for now, and they tell us that our speeds are 1MBps for both the uplink and downlink, but I highly doubt what they are telling us. Files normally download at a speed of 100kbps on average, and I do not think that that correctly reflects what the ISP is saying. However, I am not an expert on this matters, and that is why I have sought to ask the gurus on the list to shed some light.
Attached hereto is a speedtest.net result graphic for more info. Thanks.
Me.
-- שִׁמְעוֹן
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-- שִׁמְעוֹן
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Hey Simon, Wooa... That uplink is terrible! Get this info from you ISP : a) Is the service a shared or dedicated one? b) As someone mentioned, graphs are important and not your responsibilty. Any serious SP should have these as standard for your service. c) You may have a bigger problem if the ISP is doing protocol shaping over a dedicated link. This shaping cannot determined easily, especially if there is dynamic load balancing. Check with them on this. d) A good way to determine any packet shaping is to test with a voip service. Trust me, you will " hear" the shaping results immediately. ( Like that train one would listen for, by placing your ear on the railway line..well with the train still far. ) And as I always say, if indoubt one should move on to other providers. You simply should not be having such issues and the SP should be able to clarify all your questions and queries to your satisfaction. HTHs. On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Simon Mbuthia <simon.mbuthia@gmail.com>wrote:
Hi Skunktoids,
We got this deal from some ISP which I won't name for now, and they tell us that our speeds are 1MBps for both the uplink and downlink, but I highly doubt what they are telling us. Files normally download at a speed of 100kbps on average, and I do not think that that correctly reflects what the ISP is saying. However, I am not an expert on this matters, and that is why I have sought to ask the gurus on the list to shed some light.
I am made to understand that the link is.. ahem.. "dedicated". Also note that it is 1 MBps both ways... The only graphs we have access to are the ones by Orion, which only show activity on our router's interfaces... 2009/9/29 aki <aki275@googlemail.com>
Hey Simon,
Wooa... That uplink is terrible!
Get this info from you ISP :
a) Is the service a shared or dedicated one?
b) As someone mentioned, graphs are important and not your responsibilty. Any serious SP should have these as standard for your service.
c) You may have a bigger problem if the ISP is doing protocol shaping over a dedicated link. This shaping cannot determined easily, especially if there is dynamic load balancing. Check with them on this.
d) A good way to determine any packet shaping is to test with a voip service. Trust me, you will " hear" the shaping results immediately. ( Like that train one would listen for, by placing your ear on the railway line..well with the train still far. )
And as I always say, if indoubt one should move on to other providers. You simply should not be having such issues and the SP should be able to clarify all your questions and queries to your satisfaction. HTHs.
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Simon Mbuthia <simon.mbuthia@gmail.com>wrote:
Hi Skunktoids,
We got this deal from some ISP which I won't name for now, and they tell us that our speeds are 1MBps for both the uplink and downlink, but I highly doubt what they are telling us. Files normally download at a speed of 100kbps on average, and I do not think that that correctly reflects what the ISP is saying. However, I am not an expert on this matters, and that is why I have sought to ask the gurus on the list to shed some light.
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-- שִׁמְעוֹן
Boss Simon, A proper graph is such a helpful tool that you can even use it to detect DOS attacks etc. Ok, try this as a final resource. Increase packet size incrementaly in pinger and let it run for a while until it saturates the link. Then run your speed tests... my thots. On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 2:01 PM, Simon Mbuthia <simon.mbuthia@gmail.com>wrote:
I am made to understand that the link is.. ahem.. "dedicated". Also note that it is 1 MBps both ways... The only graphs we have access to are the ones by Orion, which only show activity on our router's interfaces...
@simon, I agree with @mmugo that 100 KBps = 800Kbps = 0.8 Mbps. which no that bad unless you want work at the max. Btw is your ISP on fiber yet?I can see latencies of 596ms On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 2:26 PM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
Boss Simon, A proper graph is such a helpful tool that you can even use it to detect DOS attacks etc. Ok, try this as a final resource. Increase packet size incrementaly in pinger and let it run for a while until it saturates the link. Then run your speed tests...
my thots. On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 2:01 PM, Simon Mbuthia <simon.mbuthia@gmail.com>wrote:
I am made to understand that the link is.. ahem.. "dedicated". Also note that it is 1 MBps both ways... The only graphs we have access to are the ones by Orion, which only show activity on our router's interfaces...
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I guess we are... Pinging yahoo.com [69.147.114.224] with 32 bytes of data: Reply from 69.147.114.224: bytes=32 time=267ms TTL=52 Reply from 69.147.114.224: bytes=32 time=264ms TTL=52 Reply from 69.147.114.224: bytes=32 time=264ms TTL=52 Reply from 69.147.114.224: bytes=32 time=265ms TTL=52 Ping statistics for 69.147.114.224: Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss), Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds: Minimum = 264ms, Maximum = 267ms, Average = 265ms 2009/9/29 Net Net <bgp.peers@gmail.com>
@simon,
I agree with @mmugo that 100 KBps = 800Kbps = 0.8 Mbps. which no that bad unless you want work at the max. Btw is your ISP on fiber yet?I can see latencies of 596ms
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 2:26 PM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
Boss Simon, A proper graph is such a helpful tool that you can even use it to detect DOS attacks etc. Ok, try this as a final resource. Increase packet size incrementaly in pinger and let it run for a while until it saturates the link. Then run your speed tests...
my thots. On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 2:01 PM, Simon Mbuthia <simon.mbuthia@gmail.com>wrote:
I am made to understand that the link is.. ahem.. "dedicated". Also note that it is 1 MBps both ways... The only graphs we have access to are the ones by Orion, which only show activity on our router's interfaces...
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-- שִׁמְעוֹן
@aki...Are we telling dear Simon to ping your IP...perhaps *# ping -f aki.aki.aki.aki* 2009/9/29 Net Net <bgp.peers@gmail.com>
@simon,
I agree with @mmugo that 100 KBps = 800Kbps = 0.8 Mbps. which no that bad unless you want work at the max. Btw is your ISP on fiber yet?I can see latencies of 596ms
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 2:26 PM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
Boss Simon, A proper graph is such a helpful tool that you can even use it to detect DOS attacks etc. Ok, try this as a final resource. Increase packet size incrementaly in pinger and let it run for a while until it saturates the link. Then run your speed tests...
my thots. On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 2:01 PM, Simon Mbuthia <simon.mbuthia@gmail.com>wrote:
I am made to understand that the link is.. ahem.. "dedicated". Also note that it is 1 MBps both ways... The only graphs we have access to are the ones by Orion, which only show activity on our router's interfaces...
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-- Lusiola Brian Everyone has photographic memory, not everyone has film though.
@Brian, :-)) nope! I just want Simon the dude to send a nice polite message to his provider that he has problems with their service. Then let the www come back with ip requests for Simon network as the DOSer. Hakuna njia nyingine... why do SPs do such things as poor CS. All they need to do is sit with him and go through all the tests to ensure that his network and their services are on par. I mean how complicated is this? :-) On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 2:43 PM, Brian Lusiola <lusiola@gmail.com> wrote:
@aki...Are we telling dear Simon to ping your IP...perhaps *# ping -f aki.aki.aki.aki*
@Net, sorry my friend, I disagree. 0.8Mpbs is 75% of total. So Should a user not use 25% pool yet he is paying for a complete 1Mbits. Wooaa...this has to stop. @Simon can you please DEMAND a 25% discount on the rate that you are paying! PLEASE! Rgds. :-) On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 2:29 PM, Net Net <bgp.peers@gmail.com> wrote:
@simon,
I agree with @mmugo that 100 KBps = 800Kbps = 0.8 Mbps. which no that bad unless you want work at the max. Btw is your ISP on fiber yet?I can see latencies of 596ms
@aki,well a user needs to use what he has purchased but best practices with service providers if I am not wrong is that you need not to use your capacity above 80%.Incidentally 0.8Mbps is 80% and not 75%.Most ISPs normally upgrade their links as soon as they start hitting 80%(I stand to be corrected) On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 2:59 PM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
@Net, sorry my friend, I disagree. 0.8Mpbs is 75% of total. So Should a user not use 25% pool yet he is paying for a complete 1Mbits. Wooaa...this has to stop.
@Simon can you please DEMAND a 25% discount on the rate that you are paying! PLEASE!
Rgds. :-)
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 2:29 PM, Net Net <bgp.peers@gmail.com> wrote:
@simon,
I agree with @mmugo that 100 KBps = 800Kbps = 0.8 Mbps. which no that bad unless you want work at the max. Btw is your ISP on fiber yet?I can see latencies of 596ms
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@Net, sorry for the earlier comment. :-). The idea of 75% and 25% applies at distribution layer and above. For end users it is recommended to consider an upgrade at that, however end user traffic is bursty. The problem is there is no graph to look at link activity and determine the upgrade case. In Simon's case, he mentioned something about dedicated. A 1Mbit cct will easily and constantly do a max 125KB/s in either direction from one machine or vary with others on the network. The network limit is controlled by the paid circuit of 1Mbits which is allocated during the purchase period. Then how does he get less throughput? I think he should dump the SP and move on to serious ones who can offer the real thing. Rgds. On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 3:35 PM, Net Net <bgp.peers@gmail.com> wrote:
@aki,well a user needs to use what he has purchased but best practices with service providers if I am not wrong is that you need not to use your capacity above 80%.Incidentally 0.8Mbps is 80% and not 75%.Most ISPs normally upgrade their links as soon as they start hitting 80%(I stand to be corrected)
you have to be careful how you measure bandwidth. An ISP giving you 1Mbps to the internet is just marketing, no one will ever give you guaranteed service to the internet for the simple reason that the internet is EVERYWHERE like the matrix:-))...it means different things for different people.... I'll give an example, lets assume everyday all you access is a website hosted at a local ISP whose access is via KIXP, and your neighbor accesses facebook via the same ISP, you'll probably be saying totally different things about this ISP especially if they (the ISP) have insufficient international capacity but sufficient local capacity..... what your ISP probably means is they have guaranteed you 1Mbps from your house to their premise...which probably means squat but looks good on paper:-).... On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Simon Mbuthia <simon.mbuthia@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Skunktoids,
We got this deal from some ISP which I won't name for now, and they tell us that our speeds are 1MBps for both the uplink and downlink, but I highly doubt what they are telling us. Files normally download at a speed of 100kbps on average, and I do not think that that correctly reflects what the ISP is saying. However, I am not an expert on this matters, and that is why I have sought to ask the gurus on the list to shed some light.
Attached hereto is a speedtest.net result graphic for more info. Thanks.
Me.
-- שִׁמְעוֹן
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-- **Gitau
@John, pls consider this. The internet is carried over a circuit and that circuit is rated in kbps or data transfer rate per second. Same way that the data is carrried over circuits that have a capacity throughput. Therefore, in the case of a dedicated service, the data transfer rates are guaranteed. Can you imagine if you bought an STM-1 from Seacom and then throughputs are much lower? On shared services, what you say is true and applicable and data rates will vary depending on overall traffic usage. me thots..
@aki my thought is that @Simon to push the ISP to give him utilization graphs(because the ISPs do give the graphs infact at the point of link commisioning) either cacti,mrtg or whichever ,otherwise how does he measure what he is using tho' I am sure with the stats given there might be so little difference if any. Going for another ISP might not help as such and if you go to a worse ISP you might later go back to them but humiliated,not forgetting that ISPs have 1 or 2months period notice.Talk to the support team,escalate to their technical head and account manager if support arenot helpful. One thing I have learnt about ISPs is you might gain from them a great deal when you try reasoning with them especially their Account managers,just table your facts On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 3:56 PM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
@John, pls consider this. The internet is carried over a circuit and that circuit is rated in kbps or data transfer rate per second. Same way that the data is carrried over circuits that have a capacity throughput. Therefore, in the case of a dedicated service, the data transfer rates are guaranteed. Can you imagine if you bought an STM-1 from Seacom and then throughputs are much lower? On shared services, what you say is true and applicable and data rates will vary depending on overall traffic usage.
me thots..
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@aki my thought is that @Simon to push the ISP to give him utilization graphs(because the ISPs do give the graphs infact at the point of link commisioning) either cacti,mrtg or whichever ,otherwise how does he measure what he is using tho' I am sure with the stats given there might be so little difference if any. Going for another ISP might not help as such and if you go to a worse ISP you might later go back to them but humiliated,not forgetting that ISPs have 1 or 2months period notice.Talk to the support team,escalate to their technical head and account manager if support arenot helpful. One thing I have learnt about ISPs is you might gain from them a great deal when you try reasoning with them especially their Account managers,just table your facts On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 4:17 PM, Net Net <bgp.peers@gmail.com> wrote:
@aki my thought is that @Simon to push the ISP to give him utilization graphs(because the ISPs do give the graphs infact at the point of link commisioning) either cacti,mrtg or whichever ,otherwise how does he measure what he is using tho' I am sure with the stats given there might be so little difference if any. Going for another ISP might not help as such and if you go to a worse ISP you might later go back to them but humiliated,not forgetting that ISPs have 1 or 2months period notice.Talk to the support team,escalate to their technical head and account manager if support arenot helpful. One thing I have learnt about ISPs is you might gain from them a great deal when you try reasoning with them especially their Account managers,just table your facts
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 3:56 PM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
@John, pls consider this. The internet is carried over a circuit and that circuit is rated in kbps or data transfer rate per second. Same way that the data is carrried over circuits that have a capacity throughput. Therefore, in the case of a dedicated service, the data transfer rates are guaranteed. Can you imagine if you bought an STM-1 from Seacom and then throughputs are much lower? On shared services, what you say is true and applicable and data rates will vary depending on overall traffic usage.
me thots..
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In a simple nutshell. :-) ** *A simple Dedicated scenario:* ! SEACOM ! 10Mbit ! 155Mbits !-------------------------------------------Client A ! Internet ! ! Water Tank ! 1Mbit ! !--------------------------------------------Client B ! ! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Consider Seacom above as a Water tower with capacity of 155Mbits. Out of which there are 2 clients, A and B. Client A takes 10Mbit Client B takes 1 Mbit Seacom water tower has enough capacity to sustain dedicated services. Remove 11Mbits for its tank to clients, remaining 144Mbits. Therefore, there is ample supply. *A simple Shared Scenario* ! SEACOM ! 10Mbit ! 155Mbits !-------------------------------------------Client 1 ! Water Tank ! 1Mbit ! !--------------------------------------------Client 2 ! !-------------- ------- -------------------- Client 200 ( each on 1Mbit/s ) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Total clients = 202 Total capacity used = 200 + 10 +1 = 211 Mbits Services are now cheaper. 155Mbit water tank can sustain "211Mbits" demand by sharing resources and usage patterns. BUT, when they all need the services then the problems begin. Hope you can visualize the issues. SPs should not call shared services as dedicated services. Call them Corporate or Business packages. Rgds.
My 2cents. You can never (ok. You can 'probably' never) get more than 80% payload throughput simply because of overheads. Hence if you are actually using 80% of your link, that is a commonly accepted norm. You could argue that the ISP's then need to sell it as 80% and not as 100% but that is a different debate all together. Even STM links which have dedicated Overhead bytes offer a payload 140 Mbits/sec as opposed to 155 Mbits which is what is sold. On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 4:29 PM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
In a simple nutshell. :-) ** *A simple Dedicated scenario:*
! SEACOM ! 10Mbit ! 155Mbits !-------------------------------------------Client A ! Internet ! ! Water Tank ! 1Mbit ! !--------------------------------------------Client B ! ! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Consider Seacom above as a Water tower with capacity of 155Mbits. Out of which there are 2 clients, A and B.
Client A takes 10Mbit Client B takes 1 Mbit
Seacom water tower has enough capacity to sustain dedicated services. Remove 11Mbits for its tank to clients, remaining 144Mbits. Therefore, there is ample supply.
*A simple Shared Scenario*
! SEACOM ! 10Mbit ! 155Mbits !-------------------------------------------Client 1 ! Water Tank ! 1Mbit ! !--------------------------------------------Client 2 ! !-------------- ------- -------------------- Client 200 ( each on 1Mbit/s ) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Total clients = 202 Total capacity used = 200 + 10 +1 = 211 Mbits
Services are now cheaper. 155Mbit water tank can sustain "211Mbits" demand by sharing resources and usage patterns. BUT, when they all need the services then the problems begin.
Hope you can visualize the issues. SPs should not call shared services as dedicated services. Call them Corporate or Business packages.
Rgds.
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@fivepings, agreed on the frames and also assuming that the last mile is also on frames, I think MTUs can be set to correct this?. However, I think you understand the concept of shared and dedicated as per drawing. The problem is not on the local loop. My thots..
@aki, You might have to sit me down and explain to me how changing MTU size would increase throughput. My argument would be it would reduce or increase delay. Maybe Mbuthia needs to tell us how he ran the test. Did he try to saturate the link or he just started a couple of downloads and monitored? On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 5:17 PM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
@fivepings, agreed on the frames and also assuming that the last mile is also on frames, I think MTUs can be set to correct this?. However, I think you understand the concept of shared and dedicated as per drawing. The problem is not on the local loop.
My thots..
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@Tano-pings, I think we have hijacked Simon's thread and others may complain of being spammy. Letting it be for now. I can only imagine if we were SPs, his problems were resolved. :-) On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 5:27 PM, John Doe <fivepings@gmail.com> wrote:
<<
@aki, If ISPs could purchase 155Mbps because the clients need upto 155Mbps(not even factoring in the fact that Overhead bytes offer a payload roughly 140 Mbits/sec as @john says which I agree),the ISPs willnot be in business.Some ISPs TRULY offer dedicated bandwidth but they also capitalise on the fact that not all clients use up all their capacity at the same time,so they can comfortably balance their traffic + other traffic being local through IXP,makes them in business. If @simon has a good managed router,he can also check the traffic on the outside interfac of his router to be on the safe side Please I feel MTU willnot be relevant in this case On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 5:50 PM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
@Tano-pings, I think we have hijacked Simon's thread and others may complain of being spammy. Letting it be for now. I can only imagine if we were SPs, his problems were resolved. :-)
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 5:27 PM, John Doe <fivepings@gmail.com> wrote:
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@Net, agreed boss. If they could answer Simon as well as we have tried here, then its sawa. :-) . ( btw, I dont know who the ISP is nor what network nor what service nor what sla's, neither has simon mentioned it so its all a case of what Simon gets back from them). I think we have tried our best to assist him with the small knowledge that we have. Asante.
@ aki Agreed. Let's be courteous to Mbuthia :-) @ Mbuthia. As you keep checking on your link. Remember, you are the customer and the ISP should be able to prove to you that you are getting what you are paying for.i.e Graphs and other utilisation information should be readily available. But be careful that your test is set up to measure the link between you and ISP. Unless of course they are selling you a dedicated link between two clearly defined points. @ net...MTU's wacha tuachie hapo kwa sasa. On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 5:55 PM, Net Net <bgp.peers@gmail.com> wrote:
@aki,
If ISPs could purchase 155Mbps because the clients need upto 155Mbps(not even factoring in the fact that Overhead bytes offer a payload roughly 140 Mbits/sec as @john says which I agree),the ISPs willnot be in business.Some ISPs TRULY offer dedicated bandwidth but they also capitalise on the fact that not all clients use up all their capacity at the same time,so they can comfortably balance their traffic + other traffic being local through IXP,makes them in business. If @simon has a good managed router,he can also check the traffic on the outside interfac of his router to be on the safe side Please I feel MTU willnot be relevant in this case
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 5:50 PM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
@Tano-pings, I think we have hijacked Simon's thread and others may complain of being spammy. Letting it be for now. I can only imagine if we were SPs, his problems were resolved. :-)
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 5:27 PM, John Doe <fivepings@gmail.com> wrote:
<<
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It's OK.. I took note of what to do... showed it to my boss. Let's see what happens, but I still see us moving to Safaricom soon, coz the answers we're getting from our current provider sound like a fish screaming undersea. Thanks anywayz, and you have my permission to hijack the thread further in appreciation ;) 2009/9/29 John Doe <fivepings@gmail.com>
@ aki Agreed. Let's be courteous to Mbuthia :-)
@ Mbuthia. As you keep checking on your link. Remember, you are the customer and the ISP should be able to prove to you that you are getting what you are paying for.i.e Graphs and other utilisation information should be readily available. But be careful that your test is set up to measure the link between you and ISP. Unless of course they are selling you a dedicated link between two clearly defined points.
@ net...MTU's wacha tuachie hapo kwa sasa.
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 5:55 PM, Net Net <bgp.peers@gmail.com> wrote:
@aki,
If ISPs could purchase 155Mbps because the clients need upto 155Mbps(not even factoring in the fact that Overhead bytes offer a payload roughly 140 Mbits/sec as @john says which I agree),the ISPs willnot be in business.Some ISPs TRULY offer dedicated bandwidth but they also capitalise on the fact that not all clients use up all their capacity at the same time,so they can comfortably balance their traffic + other traffic being local through IXP,makes them in business. If @simon has a good managed router,he can also check the traffic on the outside interfac of his router to be on the safe side Please I feel MTU willnot be relevant in this case
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 5:50 PM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
@Tano-pings, I think we have hijacked Simon's thread and others may complain of being spammy. Letting it be for now. I can only imagine if we were SPs, his problems were resolved. :-)
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 5:27 PM, John Doe <fivepings@gmail.com> wrote:
<<
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-- שִׁמְעוֹן
well seems yu're thinking in the right direction on choice of ISP's:-) - @everyone, ISP's generally do not sell dedicated bandwidth services (because the internet's content is not centralized) this dedicated services are always priced differently, try it, call your ISP and tell them you want dedicated 1Mb to a Yahoo server in london (mind you not the one in the states), tell them at exactly 11am tomorrow you will run a test to ensure you're getting that capacity, then ask them to price that for you. The bandwidth ISP's purchase is like a road, the bigger it is the better the flow, If all of us buy cars and actually drive them, you know what happens, if the chinese come and put up a super highway on Mombasa road, they don't care to what part of Kenya or the world that road leads you to, all they know is the bottleneck (traffic jam) won't be on THAT highway, If I further go and expand my driveway (the equivalent of 'doubling your capacity' being hawked by ISP's - it doubles your local loop) it won't matter, I'll still drive the one car from my driveway to the superhighway..... don't be lost in translation, ask for what you want from your ISP, move if you're not happy with them..... On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 6:37 PM, Simon Mbuthia <simon.mbuthia@gmail.com> wrote:
It's OK.. I took note of what to do... showed it to my boss. Let's see what happens, but I still see us moving to Safaricom soon, coz the answers we're getting from our current provider sound like a fish screaming undersea.
Thanks anywayz, and you have my permission to hijack the thread further in appreciation ;)
2009/9/29 John Doe <fivepings@gmail.com>
@ aki Agreed. Let's be courteous to Mbuthia :-)
@ Mbuthia. As you keep checking on your link. Remember, you are the customer and the ISP should be able to prove to you that you are getting what you are paying for.i.e Graphs and other utilisation information should be readily available. But be careful that your test is set up to measure the link between you and ISP. Unless of course they are selling you a dedicated link between two clearly defined points.
@ net...MTU's wacha tuachie hapo kwa sasa.
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 5:55 PM, Net Net <bgp.peers@gmail.com> wrote:
@aki,
If ISPs could purchase 155Mbps because the clients need upto 155Mbps(not even factoring in the fact that Overhead bytes offer a payload roughly 140 Mbits/sec as @john says which I agree),the ISPs willnot be in business.Some ISPs TRULY offer dedicated bandwidth but they also capitalise on the fact that not all clients use up all their capacity at the same time,so they can comfortably balance their traffic + other traffic being local through IXP,makes them in business. If @simon has a good managed router,he can also check the traffic on the outside interfac of his router to be on the safe side Please I feel MTU willnot be relevant in this case
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 5:50 PM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
@Tano-pings, I think we have hijacked Simon's thread and others may complain of being spammy. Letting it be for now. I can only imagine if we were SPs, his problems were resolved. :-)
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 5:27 PM, John Doe <fivepings@gmail.com> wrote:
<<
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-- שִׁמְעוֹן
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-- **Gitau
Hi @John, The Internet's content is not centralised but as a start, most of the common servers on the www do not run on a miserable 1mbit. As I posted yesterday, just youtube monthly bandwidth data consumption is 25PetaBytes/month ( 2500 TeraBytes ). The bottleneck is not those servers out there. It's all local gateways. So when Safaricom moved to Seacom, the buffering stopped on eg youtube. Here's a simple question : If aki was to buy dedicated 1024/1024kbps, how many voip channels can I run on this? I'd suggest you contact the local BPO's who run call centres and they will tell you what kind of bandwidth they run on. Most will try and get a minimum E1 out of the 1Mbit internet link without any problems in voice quality and some providers will fail the test of providing them services without placing guaranteed QOS on their internet circuits. I think clients need to have clarity on advertised services so that the end user can make better judgements. Its a simple matter of calling the service either shared or dedicated. ( point of ref is the gateway ). And we have not even started talking about contention ratios :-) Corerctions welcome.
During the VSAT days : SCPC (single channel per carrier) is a long used and proven technology which stands out for it's high reliability, bandwidth efficiency and flexibility. Separate channels are used for both uplink / downlink each being assigned a unique frequency. You will be able to define your uplink and downlink bandwidth at your own will in order to take the best out of the service. SCPC service suits best: - Corporations - Medium size enterprises - Hotels - ISPs Then there this : SCPC / DVB : Means SCPC uplink, return via DVB. All uplinks are more expensive than downlinks, except in SCPC case. Then this eg : Services are delivered from the powerful Eutelsat<http://www.isatasia.com/intro/asiasat2.php> *W1*, *Telstar 12*, *Eutelsat W5*, *Sesat 2*, *Hellasat-2, Newskies* (NSS6 , NSS7 ) and *Eutelsat W3A *satellites, respectively, in C-band , Ku band and Ka band, respectively, to ensure highest service reliability (99.95% service uptime guaranteed) in the challenging weather conditions of covered countries. What is important is criteria of service. Infact, most serious VSAT operators will even tell you the estimated max number of computers that the service is recommended on. I'm sure there are many gurus on the list who can add. Rgds.
the answer is unfortunately IT DEPENDS....on the customer's level of knowledge, their budget, the ISP's budget, their technical support, their sales guys level of 'greed', the market, the regulator etc etc...I could write on and on....in the case of VOIP, it depends on the codec, regulation, the VOIP service provider,how 'connected are you? the protocols involved...I mean the variations are endless....however if you know EXACTLY what you're looking for then you get an ISP that satisfies THAT specific need, which is what whoever started this thread did, If all you go and ask for is a connection, TO the INTERNET, then the only bit of the link you can be guaranteed is the local loop, and the ISP really can't be blamed now can they...I also think using you tube as a focal point is a bad idea..........we could make a long debate out of this....there's just no free lunch ..anywhere...ISP's are running a business, customers are looking to maximize on what they paid for its just the way it is, this model could change dfrastically if the internet users became more cluefull of their needs... if you need further discussion on this, please unicast me with specific questions..i might be able to assist... On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 5:17 PM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
During the VSAT days :
SCPC (single channel per carrier) is a long used and proven technology which stands out for it's high reliability, bandwidth efficiency and flexibility. Separate channels are used for both uplink / downlink each being assigned a unique frequency. You will be able to define your uplink and downlink bandwidth at your own will in order to take the best out of the service.
SCPC service suits best:
Corporations Medium size enterprises Hotels ISPs
Then there this :
SCPC / DVB : Means SCPC uplink, return via DVB.
All uplinks are more expensive than downlinks, except in SCPC case.
Then this eg :
Services are delivered from the powerful Eutelsat W1, Telstar 12, Eutelsat W5, Sesat 2, Hellasat-2, Newskies (NSS6 , NSS7 ) and Eutelsat W3A satellites, respectively, in C-band , Ku band and Ka band, respectively, to ensure highest service reliability (99.95% service uptime guaranteed) in the challenging weather conditions of covered countries.
What is important is criteria of service. Infact, most serious VSAT operators will even tell you the estimated max number of computers that the service is recommended on.
I'm sure there are many gurus on the list who can add.
Rgds. _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general
-- **Gitau
@John, hehehe...ati Unicast. lol! Well good to know that I can unicast you one of these days on those questions. You missed my point on the voip question because I specifically did not talk about codecs but the pipe that will carry the codecs whether G711, 723 or 729 etc. But I think you have covered all that was necessary. Good one. Asante.
participants (8)
-
aki -
Brian Lusiola -
Jared Koyier -
John Doe -
John Gitau -
m mugo -
Net Net -
Simon Mbuthia