Hi First of all, thank you very much for this work. It is quite long and it seems a lot of thinking went into it. Please consider the following, that may need debate/explanation/improvement: On a really organisational kind of way, I am confused. Shall members elect a board then elect officers? Will that not lead to two centres of power? What are the functions of the board that are so different from the officers? Can these be merged? How about members elect a board/office and the board/office employs a secretariat to run the office if necessary? How about members vote for officers, a chair, deputy chair etc and then nominate representatives to the Committee from under-represented sectors. Alternatively, members vote and find a way to have sector representatives by naming organisations that can nominate? However, considering the document as it is, here are some comments on the articles as they appear. Name: I would prefer ISOC KE to suggested the KENISOC:) There is need to define ISOC as it appears severally in the document but by mere reading of the by-laws, one cannot tell what ISOC is. Objects/Purpose: Can we try to incorporate what members had expressed in earlier discussions, eg to achieve universal Internet access, education, training? etc (Art III 2 on Membership classes: Why can these not be decided in the by-laws so that a member joining already knows the class they are joining? In fact later on "individual members" are mentioned but they are not defined. Which brings the question, does one have to be a Kenyan citizen to be a member? Art IV Board of Trustees: Under what criteria do we weigh some sectors as heavier than others? Isn't it better to have all sectors equally represented? I suggest that in members of the Board we can add a general provision for persons who have experience in matters related to Internet Governance etc so as to accommodate very good people who may be from any of the sectors at a time when that sector is already represented. Under such a provision we can limit the number of these "other experienced persons" to a maximum of three? In describing gender parity, the practice nowadays is to say, at least one third must be from either gender:) towards the end of the document there are two mentions of "senior manager". Who is that? Article XII and XIII have many strange ideas that needed to have been defined earlier...senior manager, chapters....They need to be adopted to these by-laws so that they can be in tandem with the rest of the document. ------------------ Once again thanks to the people who undertook this task. Cheers, Grace. 2011/9/1 Alex Ngatia <alex.ngatia@gmail.com>

Hi guys,

Good draft. Quite some work you've put into it. I guess it will be refined as we go along, but as for me I currently have no additions/subtractions to make.

On 9/1/11, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Listers,

Kindly go through the attached document prepared by one of us, let us comment on the same before the next meeting.

-- Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno

-- Regards,

Alex

*http://about.me/ngatts* <http://about.me/ngatts> _______________________________________________ isoc mailing list isoc@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/isoc

-- Grace L.N. Mutung'u (Bomu) Kenya Skype: gracebomu Twitter: GraceMutung'u (Bomu)

Thanks McTim and Grace for your insightfull responses, Grace and any other members from the legal fraternity, do you mind volunteering your expertise to help refine the document, as mentioned a member volunteered to put this together and it is great to see the reactions coming forth, what do other members think?, Jolie posted a copy of bylaws for the NY chapter we can also compare the two. On 9/1/11, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

Where did these come from? (copy and pasted from somewhere else I imagine, as it would be a lot of work to write up new by-laws from scratch!)

here are my nits picked:

1.ii "To represent the Kenyan Internet community in government committees and in other local and international forums that deal with the various technical, legal and social aspects of the Internet,"

Are such bodies as ISOC allowed to sit on government committees? Or are we talking about things like the ICT Board and IPv6 forum??

I would like Section 1. to say more about increasing Interent access in Kenya I think.

When did we decide we would have dues paying members? I had thought that was an open issue?

Section 7:

"7. Any members of the Chapter may file charges against a member by filing a written complaint with the Secretary of the Chapter."

WTF is this about? Is this needed? really?

Article IV

2". Board membership shall be drawn from key sectors of the Kenyan Internet community, primarily sponsoring organizations:

Government (1)

Private Sector (2)

Academia (1)

Civil Society (1)

Members-at-large (2)"

I'm not so keen on divvying up seats like this. What if we can't find a good person from gov't to sit on the Board? Will we be then forced to have a clueless person on the Board just to satisfy the By-laws?

Same with the other stakeholder groups I think.

In general I think we will have problems due to the gender parity rules.

If there are 7 board Members, and 1/3 must be women, then that means at least 3 women. If there are 4 officer seats, and a 1/3 must be women, then that means 2 women at all times must be Officers.

What if we have problems recruiting that many women willing to serve?

Article XII 1:

"All proposed changes to these Chapter Bylaws shall have been approved by the Senior Manager, Chapters and individual Memberships"

Who is the "Senior Manager" ?

In general I find it to be a very formal document, suggesting physical offices, Standing committees, etc. Will we be able to sustain such an operation?

What will our source(s) of funding come from?

For a first draft tho, it's not bad!

Regards,

McTim

On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 12:47 PM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>wrote:

...

Listers,

Kindly go through the attached document prepared by one of us, let us comment on the same before the next meeting.

-- Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno

_______________________________________________ isoc mailing list isoc@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/isoc

-- Cheers,

McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel

-- Sent from my mobile device Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno

Absolutely Grace, I wonder what's the take of members, should we just be a society or an NGO, I prefer the former, secondly how will the society relate with our cctld registry? On 9/1/11, Grace Mutung'u (Bomu) <nmutungu@gmail.com> wrote:

BTW, this society also has to be registered in Kenya with the Registrar of Societies. Someone should keep that in mind as we apply for the chapter registration too. Yes, I will be happy to assist once people have given their input. Cheers!

2011/9/1 Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>

...

Thanks McTim and Grace for your insightfull responses, Grace and any other members from the legal fraternity, do you mind volunteering your expertise to help refine the document, as mentioned a member volunteered to put this together and it is great to see the reactions coming forth, what do other members think?, Jolie posted a copy of bylaws for the NY chapter we can also compare the two.

On 9/1/11, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Hi,

Where did these come from? (copy and pasted from somewhere else I imagine, as it would be a lot of work to write up new by-laws from scratch!)

here are my nits picked:

1.ii "To represent the Kenyan Internet community in government committees and in other local and international forums that deal with the various technical, legal and social aspects of the Internet,"

Are such bodies as ISOC allowed to sit on government committees? Or are we talking about things like the ICT Board and IPv6 forum??

I would like Section 1. to say more about increasing Interent access in Kenya I think.

When did we decide we would have dues paying members? I had thought that was an open issue?

Section 7:

"7. Any members of the Chapter may file charges against a member by filing a written complaint with the Secretary of the Chapter."

WTF is this about? Is this needed? really?

Article IV

2". Board membership shall be drawn from key sectors of the Kenyan Internet community, primarily sponsoring organizations:

Government (1)

Private Sector (2)

Academia (1)

Civil Society (1)

Members-at-large (2)"

I'm not so keen on divvying up seats like this. What if we can't find a good person from gov't to sit on the Board? Will we be then forced to have a clueless person on the Board just to satisfy the By-laws?

Same with the other stakeholder groups I think.

In general I think we will have problems due to the gender parity rules.

If there are 7 board Members, and 1/3 must be women, then that means at least 3 women. If there are 4 officer seats, and a 1/3 must be women, then that means 2 women at all times must be Officers.

What if we have problems recruiting that many women willing to serve?

Article XII 1:

"All proposed changes to these Chapter Bylaws shall have been approved by the Senior Manager, Chapters and individual Memberships"

Who is the "Senior Manager" ?

In general I find it to be a very formal document, suggesting physical offices, Standing committees, etc. Will we be able to sustain such an operation?

What will our source(s) of funding come from?

For a first draft tho, it's not bad!

Regards,

McTim

On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 12:47 PM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>wrote:

...

Listers,

Kindly go through the attached document prepared by one of us, let us comment on the same before the next meeting.

-- Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno

_______________________________________________ isoc mailing list isoc@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/isoc

-- Cheers,

McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel

-- Sent from my mobile device

Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno _______________________________________________ isoc mailing list isoc@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/isoc

-- Grace L.N. Mutung'u (Bomu) Kenya Skype: gracebomu Twitter: GraceMutung'u (Bomu)

-- Sent from my mobile device Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno

Well said Davis, Grace can you help us edit the by laws? On 9/2/11, Davis Onsakia <mautidavis@yahoo.com> wrote:

Dear Barrack et al.

This is a great document and indeed it must have taken Njoroge some time to come up with it.

Some of my observations:

 - I will prefer the name ISOC Kenya (ISOC KE) rather than KENISOC - KENISOC sounds like some obscure NGO in some rural setup  - I will prefer the status to be a society rather than an NGO - this is in keeping in trend with Internet Society naming conventions- it is a society  - On gender representation, I believe in appointing or recruitment or seconding people based on their competencies - there are rather many qualified people of either gender out there to serve in a professional entity. Bear in mind that this is not some political outfit.

More of my observations are on the attached document.

In general, we need to 'Kenyanize' the document.

Regards and many thanks, Davis M Onsakia

'The minute you settle for less than you deserve, you get even less than you settled for.' - Maureen Dowd

________________________________ From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> To: Grace Mutung'u (Bomu) <nmutungu@gmail.com>; McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com>; isoc@lists.my.co.ke Sent: Friday, September 2, 2011 1:02 AM Subject: Re: [ISOC_KE] Draft By Laws ISOC_Ke

Absolutely Grace, I wonder what's the take of members, should we just be a society or an NGO, I prefer the former, secondly how will the society relate with our cctld registry?

On 9/1/11, Grace Mutung'u (Bomu) <nmutungu@gmail.com> wrote:

...

BTW, this society also has to be registered in Kenya with the Registrar of Societies. Someone should keep that in mind as we apply for the chapter registration too. Yes, I will be happy to assist once people have given their input. Cheers!

2011/9/1 Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>

...

Thanks McTim and Grace for your insightfull responses, Grace and any other members from the legal fraternity, do you mind volunteering your expertise to help refine the document, as mentioned a member volunteered to put this together and it is great to see the reactions coming forth, what do other members think?, Jolie posted a copy of bylaws for the NY chapter we can also compare the two.

On 9/1/11, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Hi,

Where did these come from? (copy and pasted from somewhere else I imagine, as it would be a lot of work to write up new by-laws from scratch!)

here are my nits picked:

1.ii "To represent the Kenyan Internet community in government committees and in other local and international forums that deal with the various technical, legal and social aspects of the Internet,"

Are such bodies as ISOC allowed to sit on government committees? Or are we talking about things like the ICT Board and IPv6 forum??

I would like Section 1. to say more about increasing Interent access in Kenya I think.

When did we decide we would have dues paying members?  I had thought that was an open issue?

Section 7:

"7. Any members of the Chapter may file charges against a member by filing a written complaint with the Secretary of the Chapter."

WTF is this about? Is this needed? really?

Article IV

2". Board membership shall be drawn from key sectors of the Kenyan Internet community, primarily sponsoring organizations:

Government (1)

Private Sector (2)

Academia (1)

Civil Society (1)

Members-at-large (2)"

I'm not so keen on divvying up seats like this.  What if we can't find a good person from gov't to sit on the Board?  Will we be then forced to have a clueless person on the Board just to satisfy the By-laws?

Same with the other stakeholder groups I think.

In general I think we will have problems due to the gender parity rules.

If there are 7 board Members, and 1/3 must be women, then that means at least 3 women.  If there are 4 officer seats, and a 1/3 must be women, then that means 2 women at all times must be Officers.

What if we have problems recruiting that many women willing to serve?

Article XII 1:

"All proposed changes to these Chapter Bylaws shall have been approved by the Senior Manager, Chapters and individual Memberships"

Who is the "Senior Manager" ?

In general I find it to be a very formal document, suggesting physical offices, Standing committees, etc.  Will we be able to sustain such an operation?

What will our source(s) of funding come from?

For a first draft tho, it's not bad!

Regards,

McTim

On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 12:47 PM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>wrote:

...

Listers,

Kindly go through the attached document prepared by one of us, let us comment on the same before the next meeting.

-- Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com>   <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno

_______________________________________________ isoc mailing list isoc@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/isoc

-- Cheers,

McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel

-- Sent from my mobile device

Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno _______________________________________________ isoc mailing list isoc@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/isoc

-- Grace L.N. Mutung'u (Bomu) Kenya Skype: gracebomu Twitter: GraceMutung'u (Bomu)

-- Sent from my mobile device

Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno _______________________________________________ isoc mailing list isoc@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/isoc

-- Sent from my mobile device Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno

Brothers and sisters the best appropriate name would be ISOC kenya chapter from Omondi Daniel Thanks all     --------------------------------------------------------------------- Imagination is more important than knowledge --------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> To: Davis Onsakia <mautidavis@yahoo.com>; "isoc@lists.my.co.ke" <isoc@lists.my.co.ke> Sent: Friday, September 2, 2011 12:19 AM Subject: Re: [ISOC_KE] Draft By Laws ISOC_Ke Thanks Walu, Vincent and McTim, we are certainly on the right track, we need more views from members, what do the rest. On 9/2/11, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:

Well said Davis, Grace can you help us edit the by laws?

On 9/2/11, Davis Onsakia <mautidavis@yahoo.com> wrote:

...

Dear Barrack et al.

This is a great document and indeed it must have taken Njoroge some time to come up with it.

Some of my observations:

 - I will prefer the name ISOC Kenya (ISOC KE) rather than KENISOC - KENISOC sounds like some obscure NGO in some rural setup  - I will prefer the status to be a society rather than an NGO - this is in keeping in trend with Internet Society naming conventions- it is a society  - On gender representation, I believe in appointing or recruitment or seconding people based on their competencies - there are rather many qualified people of either gender out there to serve in a professional entity. Bear in mind that this is not some political outfit.

More of my observations are on the attached document.

In general, we need to 'Kenyanize' the document.

Regards and many thanks, Davis M Onsakia

'The minute you settle for less than you deserve, you get even less than you settled for.' - Maureen Dowd

________________________________ From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> To: Grace Mutung'u (Bomu) <nmutungu@gmail.com>; McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com>; isoc@lists.my.co.ke Sent: Friday, September 2, 2011 1:02 AM Subject: Re: [ISOC_KE] Draft By Laws ISOC_Ke

Absolutely Grace, I wonder what's the take of members, should we just be a society or an NGO, I prefer the former, secondly how will the society relate with our cctld registry?

On 9/1/11, Grace Mutung'u (Bomu) <nmutungu@gmail.com> wrote:

...

BTW, this society also has to be registered in Kenya with the Registrar of Societies. Someone should keep that in mind as we apply for the chapter registration too. Yes, I will be happy to assist once people have given their input. Cheers!

2011/9/1 Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>

...

Thanks McTim and Grace for your insightfull responses, Grace and any other members from the legal fraternity, do you mind volunteering your expertise to help refine the document, as mentioned a member volunteered to put this together and it is great to see the reactions coming forth, what do other members think?, Jolie posted a copy of bylaws for the NY chapter we can also compare the two.

On 9/1/11, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Hi,

Where did these come from? (copy and pasted from somewhere else I imagine, as it would be a lot of work to write up new by-laws from scratch!)

here are my nits picked:

1.ii "To represent the Kenyan Internet community in government committees and in other local and international forums that deal with the various technical, legal and social aspects of the Internet,"

Are such bodies as ISOC allowed to sit on government committees? Or are we talking about things like the ICT Board and IPv6 forum??

I would like Section 1. to say more about increasing Interent access in Kenya I think.

When did we decide we would have dues paying members?  I had thought that was an open issue?

Section 7:

"7. Any members of the Chapter may file charges against a member by filing a written complaint with the Secretary of the Chapter."

WTF is this about? Is this needed? really?

Article IV

2". Board membership shall be drawn from key sectors of the Kenyan Internet community, primarily sponsoring organizations:

Government (1)

Private Sector (2)

Academia (1)

Civil Society (1)

Members-at-large (2)"

I'm not so keen on divvying up seats like this.  What if we can't find a good person from gov't to sit on the Board?  Will we be then forced to have a clueless person on the Board just to satisfy the By-laws?

Same with the other stakeholder groups I think.

In general I think we will have problems due to the gender parity rules.

If there are 7 board Members, and 1/3 must be women, then that means at least 3 women.  If there are 4 officer seats, and a 1/3 must be women, then that means 2 women at all times must be Officers.

What if we have problems recruiting that many women willing to serve?

Article XII 1:

"All proposed changes to these Chapter Bylaws shall have been approved by the Senior Manager, Chapters and individual Memberships"

Who is the "Senior Manager" ?

In general I find it to be a very formal document, suggesting physical offices, Standing committees, etc.  Will we be able to sustain such an operation?

What will our source(s) of funding come from?

For a first draft tho, it's not bad!

Regards,

McTim

On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 12:47 PM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>wrote:

...

Listers,

Kindly go through the attached document prepared by one of us, let us comment on the same before the next meeting.

-- Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com>   <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno

_______________________________________________ isoc mailing list isoc@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/isoc

-- Cheers,

McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel

-- Sent from my mobile device

Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno _______________________________________________ isoc mailing list isoc@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/isoc

-- Grace L.N. Mutung'u (Bomu) Kenya Skype: gracebomu Twitter: GraceMutung'u (Bomu)

-- Sent from my mobile device

Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno _______________________________________________ isoc mailing list isoc@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/isoc

-- Sent from my mobile device

Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno

-- Sent from my mobile device Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno _______________________________________________ isoc mailing list isoc@orion.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/isoc

Hi all! The official name of the Chapter (when chartered by the Internet Society again) would indeed be "Internet Society Kenya Chapter", or ISOC Kenya Chapter - however for the sake of clarity it is always good to use the full name "Internet Society" rather than "ISOC" as this also helps reaching out to people who might never have heard of "ISOC" before. Once the first official steps in the Chapter formation process have been taken (e.g. Chapter application & bylaws sent to the Internet Society), the Chapter will be granted the interim name of "Internet Society Kenya Chapter in formation" and will be listed as thus on the Internet Society website. The official Chapter logo will also provided to the Chpater by the Internet Society once the Chapter is chartered again. You can have a look at the Internet Society's Identity Guidelines at http://www.isoc.org/isoc/general/identity/docs/identity_guidelines.pdf for more information. However, please note that the Internet Society is currently reviewing its visual identity, so this will change quite a bit before the end of 2011 - we will keep you updated on these changes. I hope this is helpful. Best regards, Christine --------------------------------------------------------------- Internet Society (ISOC) Christine Saegesser Baethge Manager, Chapter Development Website: www.InternetSociety.org --------------------------------------------------------------- On Sep 2, 2011, at 9:48 AM, DOTTO COMPUTER AGENCY LTD wrote:

Brothers and sisters the best appropriate name would be ISOC kenya chapter from Omondi Daniel Thanks all

--------------------------------------------------------------------- Imagination is more important than knowledge ---------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> To: Davis Onsakia <mautidavis@yahoo.com>; "isoc@lists.my.co.ke" <isoc@lists.my.co.ke> Sent: Friday, September 2, 2011 12:19 AM Subject: Re: [ISOC_KE] Draft By Laws ISOC_Ke

Thanks Walu, Vincent and McTim, we are certainly on the right track, we need more views from members, what do the rest.

On 9/2/11, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Well said Davis, Grace can you help us edit the by laws?

On 9/2/11, Davis Onsakia <mautidavis@yahoo.com> wrote:

...

Dear Barrack et al.

This is a great document and indeed it must have taken Njoroge some time to come up with it.

Some of my observations:

- I will prefer the name ISOC Kenya (ISOC KE) rather than KENISOC - KENISOC sounds like some obscure NGO in some rural setup - I will prefer the status to be a society rather than an NGO - this is in keeping in trend with Internet Society naming conventions- it is a society - On gender representation, I believe in appointing or recruitment or seconding people based on their competencies - there are rather many qualified people of either gender out there to serve in a professional entity. Bear in mind that this is not some political outfit.

More of my observations are on the attached document.

In general, we need to 'Kenyanize' the document.

Regards and many thanks, Davis M Onsakia

'The minute you settle for less than you deserve, you get even less than you settled for.' - Maureen Dowd

________________________________ From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> To: Grace Mutung'u (Bomu) <nmutungu@gmail.com>; McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com>; isoc@lists.my.co.ke Sent: Friday, September 2, 2011 1:02 AM Subject: Re: [ISOC_KE] Draft By Laws ISOC_Ke

Absolutely Grace, I wonder what's the take of members, should we just be a society or an NGO, I prefer the former, secondly how will the society relate with our cctld registry?

On 9/1/11, Grace Mutung'u (Bomu) <nmutungu@gmail.com> wrote:

...

BTW, this society also has to be registered in Kenya with the Registrar of Societies. Someone should keep that in mind as we apply for the chapter registration too. Yes, I will be happy to assist once people have given their input. Cheers!

2011/9/1 Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>

...

Thanks McTim and Grace for your insightfull responses, Grace and any other members from the legal fraternity, do you mind volunteering your expertise to help refine the document, as mentioned a member volunteered to put this together and it is great to see the reactions coming forth, what do other members think?, Jolie posted a copy of bylaws for the NY chapter we can also compare the two.

On 9/1/11, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Hi,

Where did these come from? (copy and pasted from somewhere else I imagine, as it would be a lot of work to write up new by-laws from scratch!)

here are my nits picked:

1.ii "To represent the Kenyan Internet community in government committees and in other local and international forums that deal with the various technical, legal and social aspects of the Internet,"

Are such bodies as ISOC allowed to sit on government committees? Or are we talking about things like the ICT Board and IPv6 forum??

I would like Section 1. to say more about increasing Interent access in Kenya I think.

When did we decide we would have dues paying members? I had thought that was an open issue?

Section 7:

"7. Any members of the Chapter may file charges against a member by filing a written complaint with the Secretary of the Chapter."

WTF is this about? Is this needed? really?

Article IV

2". Board membership shall be drawn from key sectors of the Kenyan Internet community, primarily sponsoring organizations:

Government (1)

Private Sector (2)

Academia (1)

Civil Society (1)

Members-at-large (2)"

I'm not so keen on divvying up seats like this. What if we can't find a good person from gov't to sit on the Board? Will we be then forced to have a clueless person on the Board just to satisfy the By-laws?

Same with the other stakeholder groups I think.

In general I think we will have problems due to the gender parity rules.

If there are 7 board Members, and 1/3 must be women, then that means at least 3 women. If there are 4 officer seats, and a 1/3 must be women, then that means 2 women at all times must be Officers.

What if we have problems recruiting that many women willing to serve?

Article XII 1:

"All proposed changes to these Chapter Bylaws shall have been approved by the Senior Manager, Chapters and individual Memberships"

Who is the "Senior Manager" ?

In general I find it to be a very formal document, suggesting physical offices, Standing committees, etc. Will we be able to sustain such an operation?

What will our source(s) of funding come from?

For a first draft tho, it's not bad!

Regards,

McTim

On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 12:47 PM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>wrote:

> Listers, > > Kindly go through the attached document prepared by one of us, let > us > comment on the same before the next meeting. > > -- > Barrack O. Otieno > Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) > www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, > www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> > <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar > +254721325277 > +254-20-2498789 > Skype: barrack.otieno > > > _______________________________________________ > isoc mailing list > isoc@lists.my.co.ke > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/isoc > >

-- Cheers,

McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel

-- Sent from my mobile device

Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno _______________________________________________ isoc mailing list isoc@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/isoc

-- Grace L.N. Mutung'u (Bomu) Kenya Skype: gracebomu Twitter: GraceMutung'u (Bomu)

-- Sent from my mobile device

Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno _______________________________________________ isoc mailing list isoc@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/isoc

-- Sent from my mobile device

Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno

-- Sent from my mobile device

Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno _______________________________________________ isoc mailing list isoc@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/isoc

_______________________________________________ isoc mailing list isoc@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/isoc

Thanks Joly. On 9/2/11, Joly MacFie <joly@punkcast.com> wrote:

In normal everyday use we work around this by using brackets/parentheses thus - Internet Society New York Chapter (ISOC-NY) .

You will note that even Christine's sig uses this method.

Similarly, when planning a web domain, you should possibly consider mirroring isoc.ke at InternetSociety.ke

j

On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 5:09 AM, Christine Saegesser <saegesser@isoc.org>wrote:

...

Hi all!

The official name of the Chapter (when chartered by the Internet Society again) would indeed be "Internet Society Kenya Chapter", or ISOC Kenya Chapter - however for the sake of clarity it is always good to use the full name "Internet Society" rather than "ISOC" as this also helps reaching out to people who might never have heard of "ISOC" before.

Once the first official steps in the Chapter formation process have been taken (e.g. Chapter application & bylaws sent to the Internet Society), the Chapter will be granted the interim name of "Internet Society Kenya Chapter in formation" and will be listed as thus on the Internet Society website.

The official Chapter logo will also provided to the Chpater by the Internet Society once the Chapter is chartered again. You can have a look at the Internet Society's Identity Guidelines at http://www.isoc.org/isoc/general/identity/docs/identity_guidelines.pdf for more information. However, please note that the Internet Society is currently reviewing its visual identity, so this will change quite a bit before the end of 2011 - we will keep you updated on these changes.

I hope this is helpful.

Best regards,

Christine

--------------------------------------------------------------- Internet Society (ISOC) Christine Saegesser Baethge Manager, Chapter Development Website: www.InternetSociety.org ---------------------------------------------------------------

-- --------------------------------------------------------------- Joly MacFie 218 565 9365 Skype:punkcast WWWhatsup NYC - http://wwwhatsup.com http://pinstand.com - http://punkcast.com VP (Admin) - ISOC-NY - http://isoc-ny.org -------------------------------------------------------------- -

-- Sent from my mobile device Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno

You can also be a Trust.  Mayb @Bomu could explore which is the better option..Society, NGO, Trust, Foundation etc. walu. --- On Fri, 9/2/11, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote: From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [ISOC_KE] Draft By Laws ISOC_Ke To: "Grace Mutung'u (Bomu)" <nmutungu@gmail.com>, "McTim" <dogwallah@gmail.com>, isoc@lists.my.co.ke Date: Friday, September 2, 2011, 1:02 AM Absolutely Grace, I wonder what's the take of members, should we just be a society or an NGO, I prefer the former, secondly how will the society relate with our cctld registry? On 9/1/11, Grace Mutung'u (Bomu) <nmutungu@gmail.com> wrote:

BTW, this society also has to be registered in Kenya with the Registrar of Societies. Someone should keep that in mind as we apply for the chapter registration too. Yes, I will be happy to assist once people have given their input. Cheers!

2011/9/1 Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>

...

Thanks McTim and Grace for your insightfull responses, Grace and any other members from the legal fraternity, do you mind volunteering your expertise to help refine the document, as mentioned a member volunteered to put this together and it is great to see the reactions coming forth, what do other members think?, Jolie posted a copy of bylaws for the NY chapter we can also compare the two.

On 9/1/11, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Hi,

Where did these come from? (copy and pasted from somewhere else I imagine, as it would be a lot of work to write up new by-laws from scratch!)

here are my nits picked:

1.ii "To represent the Kenyan Internet community in government committees and in other local and international forums that deal with the various technical, legal and social aspects of the Internet,"

Are such bodies as ISOC allowed to sit on government committees? Or are we talking about things like the ICT Board and IPv6 forum??

I would like Section 1. to say more about increasing Interent access in Kenya I think.

When did we decide we would have dues paying members?  I had thought that was an open issue?

Section 7:

"7. Any members of the Chapter may file charges against a member by filing a written complaint with the Secretary of the Chapter."

WTF is this about? Is this needed? really?

Article IV

2". Board membership shall be drawn from key sectors of the Kenyan Internet community, primarily sponsoring organizations:

Government (1)

Private Sector (2)

Academia (1)

Civil Society (1)

Members-at-large (2)"

I'm not so keen on divvying up seats like this.  What if we can't find a good person from gov't to sit on the Board?  Will we be then forced to have a clueless person on the Board just to satisfy the By-laws?

Same with the other stakeholder groups I think.

In general I think we will have problems due to the gender parity rules.

If there are 7 board Members, and 1/3 must be women, then that means at least 3 women.  If there are 4 officer seats, and a 1/3 must be women, then that means 2 women at all times must be Officers.

What if we have problems recruiting that many women willing to serve?

Article XII 1:

"All proposed changes to these Chapter Bylaws shall have been approved by the Senior Manager, Chapters and individual Memberships"

Who is the "Senior Manager" ?

In general I find it to be a very formal document, suggesting physical offices, Standing committees, etc.  Will we be able to sustain such an operation?

What will our source(s) of funding come from?

For a first draft tho, it's not bad!

Regards,

McTim

On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 12:47 PM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>wrote:

...

Listers,

Kindly go through the attached document prepared by one of us, let us comment on the same before the next meeting.

-- Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com>   <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno

_______________________________________________ isoc mailing list isoc@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/isoc

-- Cheers,

McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel

-- Sent from my mobile device

Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno _______________________________________________ isoc mailing list isoc@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/isoc

-- Grace L.N. Mutung'u (Bomu) Kenya Skype: gracebomu Twitter: GraceMutung'u (Bomu)

-- Sent from my mobile device Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno _______________________________________________ isoc mailing list isoc@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/isoc

Thanks Grace, I would go for a Society as stated earlier NGOs can be a headache to manage. On 9/2/11, Grace Mutung'u (Bomu) <nmutungu@gmail.com> wrote:

To decide the body we want, we must first agree on what ISOC Kenya wants to do. Here is some basic info: -------- Society: 10 or more people registered under the Societies Act for purposes of association. Easy to register and operate as one only has to have elections as per society's Constitution and file annual returns which do not attract many taxes. Ideal for democratic groups of people associating as a co-curricular activity because members can carry out a wide scope of activities as described in their constitution. Requirements for registration: constitution,registered office, interim officials, statutory fees...

Trust/Foundation: Very ambiguous in Kenyan law. Requires execution of a trust deed with names of trustees. returns require filing of trust accounts (because a trust basically means keeping properties on behalf of others) Many foundations which carry out a lot of activities end up just registering a company limited by guarantee (eg KENIC)where the law is clearer.

NGO "Non-Governmental Organization" means a private voluntary grouping of individuals or associations, not operated for profit or for other commercial purposes but which have organized themselves nationally or internationally for the benefit of the public at large and for the promotion of social welfare, development charity or research in the areas inclusive of, but not restricted to, health, relief, agriculture, education, industry and the supply of amenities and services.....this definitely excludes public bodies

To register an NGO one needs a constitution, a declaration on offices of the organization;the head office and postal address of the organization; the sectors of the proposed operations; the districts, divisions and locations of the proposed activities; the proposed average annual budgets; the duration of the activities; all sources of funding;national and international affiliation. They are subject to taxes.

Cheers, Grace

2011/9/2 Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com>

...

You can also be a Trust. Mayb @Bomu could explore which is the better option..Society, NGO, Trust, Foundation etc.

walu.

--- On *Fri, 9/2/11, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>* wrote:

From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [ISOC_KE] Draft By Laws ISOC_Ke To: "Grace Mutung'u (Bomu)" <nmutungu@gmail.com>, "McTim" < dogwallah@gmail.com>, isoc@lists.my.co.ke Date: Friday, September 2, 2011, 1:02 AM

Absolutely Grace, I wonder what's the take of members, should we just be a society or an NGO, I prefer the former, secondly how will the society relate with our cctld registry?

On 9/1/11, Grace Mutung'u (Bomu) <nmutungu@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=nmutungu@gmail.com>> wrote:

...

BTW, this society also has to be registered in Kenya with the Registrar of Societies. Someone should keep that in mind as we apply for the chapter registration too. Yes, I will be happy to assist once people have given their input. Cheers!

2011/9/1 Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=otieno.barrack@gmail.com>

...

Thanks McTim and Grace for your insightfull responses, Grace and any other members from the legal fraternity, do you mind volunteering your expertise to help refine the document, as mentioned a member volunteered to put this together and it is great to see the reactions coming forth, what do other members think?, Jolie posted a copy of bylaws for the NY chapter we can also compare the two.

On 9/1/11, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=dogwallah@gmail.com>> wrote:

...

Hi,

Where did these come from? (copy and pasted from somewhere else I imagine, as it would be a lot of work to write up new by-laws from scratch!)

here are my nits picked:

1.ii "To represent the Kenyan Internet community in government committees and in other local and international forums that deal with the various technical, legal and social aspects of the Internet,"

Are such bodies as ISOC allowed to sit on government committees? Or are we talking about things like the ICT Board and IPv6 forum??

I would like Section 1. to say more about increasing Interent access in Kenya I think.

When did we decide we would have dues paying members? I had thought that was an open issue?

Section 7:

"7. Any members of the Chapter may file charges against a member by filing a written complaint with the Secretary of the Chapter."

WTF is this about? Is this needed? really?

Article IV

2". Board membership shall be drawn from key sectors of the Kenyan Internet community, primarily sponsoring organizations:

Government (1)

Private Sector (2)

Academia (1)

Civil Society (1)

Members-at-large (2)"

I'm not so keen on divvying up seats like this. What if we can't find a good person from gov't to sit on the Board? Will we be then forced to have a clueless person on the Board just to satisfy the By-laws?

Same with the other stakeholder groups I think.

In general I think we will have problems due to the gender parity rules.

If there are 7 board Members, and 1/3 must be women, then that means at least 3 women. If there are 4 officer seats, and a 1/3 must be women, then that means 2 women at all times must be Officers.

What if we have problems recruiting that many women willing to serve?

Article XII 1:

"All proposed changes to these Chapter Bylaws shall have been approved by the Senior Manager, Chapters and individual Memberships"

Who is the "Senior Manager" ?

In general I find it to be a very formal document, suggesting physical offices, Standing committees, etc. Will we be able to sustain such an operation?

What will our source(s) of funding come from?

For a first draft tho, it's not bad!

Regards,

McTim

On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 12:47 PM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Listers,

Kindly go through the attached document prepared by one of us, let us comment on the same before the next meeting.

-- Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno

_______________________________________________ isoc mailing list isoc@lists.my.co.ke <http://mc/compose?to=isoc@lists.my.co.ke> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/isoc

-- Cheers,

McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel

-- Sent from my mobile device

Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno _______________________________________________ isoc mailing list isoc@lists.my.co.ke <http://mc/compose?to=isoc@lists.my.co.ke> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/isoc

-- Grace L.N. Mutung'u (Bomu) Kenya Skype: gracebomu Twitter: GraceMutung'u (Bomu)

-- Sent from my mobile device

Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno _______________________________________________ isoc mailing list isoc@lists.my.co.ke <http://mc/compose?to=isoc@lists.my.co.ke> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/isoc

-- Grace L.N. Mutung'u (Bomu) Kenya Skype: gracebomu Twitter: GraceMutung'u (Bomu)

-- Sent from my mobile device Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno

Thanks Christine, @ Dotto I just gave my opinion on the type of organisation I would vouch for, majority will carry the day, we need not to fear making our choices known, we need to move in terms of decision making since most listers are volunteering their time and resources, let's keep the bus moving. On 9/2/11, DOTTO COMPUTER AGENCY LTD <dottocomp@yahoo.com> wrote:

Barrack why don't we ppl exhaust the issue first before the correct position of society and NGO is sorted out amicably

--------------------------------------------------------------------- Imagination is more important than knowledge ---------------------------------------------------------------------

________________________________ From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> To: Grace Mutung'u (Bomu) <nmutungu@gmail.com>; Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com>; McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com>; isoc@lists.my.co.ke Sent: Friday, September 2, 2011 12:40 AM Subject: Re: [ISOC_KE] Draft By Laws ISOC_Ke

Thanks Grace, I would go for a Society as stated earlier NGOs can be a headache to manage.

On 9/2/11, Grace Mutung'u (Bomu) <nmutungu@gmail.com> wrote:

...

To decide the body we want, we must first agree on what ISOC Kenya wants to do. Here is some basic info: -------- Society: 10 or more people registered under the Societies Act for purposes of association. Easy to register and operate as one only has to have elections as per society's Constitution and file annual returns which do not attract many taxes. Ideal for democratic groups of people associating as a co-curricular activity because members can carry out a wide scope of activities as described in their constitution. Requirements for registration: constitution,registered office, interim officials, statutory fees...

Trust/Foundation: Very ambiguous in Kenyan law. Requires execution of a trust deed with names of trustees. returns require filing of trust accounts (because a trust basically means keeping properties on behalf of others) Many foundations which carry out a lot of activities end up just registering a company limited by guarantee (eg KENIC)where the law is clearer.

NGO "Non-Governmental Organization" means a private voluntary grouping of individuals or associations, not operated for profit or for other commercial purposes but which have organized themselves nationally or internationally for the benefit of the public at large and for the promotion of social welfare, development charity or research in the areas inclusive of, but not restricted to, health, relief, agriculture, education, industry and the supply of amenities and services.....this definitely excludes public bodies

To register an NGO one needs a constitution, a declaration on offices of the organization;the head office and postal address of the organization; the sectors of the proposed operations; the districts, divisions and locations of the proposed activities; the proposed average annual budgets; the duration of the activities; all sources of funding;national and international affiliation. They are subject to taxes.

Cheers, Grace

2011/9/2 Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com>

...

You can also be a Trust.  Mayb @Bomu could explore which is the better option..Society, NGO, Trust, Foundation etc.

walu.

--- On *Fri, 9/2/11, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>* wrote:

From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [ISOC_KE] Draft By Laws ISOC_Ke To: "Grace Mutung'u (Bomu)" <nmutungu@gmail.com>, "McTim" < dogwallah@gmail.com>, isoc@lists.my.co.ke Date: Friday, September 2, 2011, 1:02 AM

Absolutely Grace, I wonder what's the take of members, should we just be a society or an NGO, I prefer the former, secondly how will the society relate with our cctld registry?

On 9/1/11, Grace Mutung'u (Bomu) <nmutungu@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=nmutungu@gmail.com>> wrote:

...

BTW, this society also has to be registered in Kenya with the Registrar of Societies. Someone should keep that in mind as we apply for the chapter registration too. Yes, I will be happy to assist once people have given their input. Cheers!

2011/9/1 Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=otieno.barrack@gmail.com>

...

Thanks McTim and Grace for your insightfull responses, Grace and any other members from the legal fraternity, do you mind volunteering your expertise to help refine the document, as mentioned a member volunteered to put this together and it is great to see the reactions coming forth, what do other members think?, Jolie posted a copy of bylaws for the NY chapter we can also compare the two.

On 9/1/11, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=dogwallah@gmail.com>> wrote:

...

Hi,

Where did these come from? (copy and pasted from somewhere else I imagine, as it would be a lot of work to write up new by-laws from scratch!)

here are my nits picked:

1.ii "To represent the Kenyan Internet community in government committees and in other local and international forums that deal with the various technical, legal and social aspects of the Internet,"

Are such bodies as ISOC allowed to sit on government committees? Or are we talking about things like the ICT Board and IPv6 forum??

I would like Section 1. to say more about increasing Interent access in Kenya I think.

When did we decide we would have dues paying members?  I had thought that was an open issue?

Section 7:

"7. Any members of the Chapter may file charges against a member by filing a written complaint with the Secretary of the Chapter."

WTF is this about? Is this needed? really?

Article IV

2". Board membership shall be drawn from key sectors of the Kenyan Internet community, primarily sponsoring organizations:

Government (1)

Private Sector (2)

Academia (1)

Civil Society (1)

Members-at-large (2)"

I'm not so keen on divvying up seats like this.  What if we can't find a good person from gov't to sit on the Board?  Will we be then forced to have a clueless person on the Board just to satisfy the By-laws?

Same with the other stakeholder groups I think.

In general I think we will have problems due to the gender parity rules.

If there are 7 board Members, and 1/3 must be women, then that means at least 3 women.  If there are 4 officer seats, and a 1/3 must be women, then that means 2 women at all times must be Officers.

What if we have problems recruiting that many women willing to serve?

Article XII 1:

"All proposed changes to these Chapter Bylaws shall have been approved by the Senior Manager, Chapters and individual Memberships"

Who is the "Senior Manager" ?

In general I find it to be a very formal document, suggesting physical offices, Standing committees, etc.  Will we be able to sustain such an operation?

What will our source(s) of funding come from?

For a first draft tho, it's not bad!

Regards,

McTim

On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 12:47 PM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:

> Listers, > > Kindly go through the attached document prepared by one of us, let > us > comment on the same before the next meeting. > > -- > Barrack O. Otieno > Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) > www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, > www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> >  <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar > +254721325277 > +254-20-2498789 > Skype: barrack.otieno > > > _______________________________________________ > isoc mailing list > isoc@lists.my.co.ke <http://mc/compose?to=isoc@lists.my.co.ke> > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/isoc > >

-- Cheers,

McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel

-- Sent from my mobile device

Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno _______________________________________________ isoc mailing list isoc@lists.my.co.ke <http://mc/compose?to=isoc@lists.my.co.ke> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/isoc

-- Grace L.N. Mutung'u (Bomu) Kenya Skype: gracebomu Twitter: GraceMutung'u (Bomu)

-- Sent from my mobile device

Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno _______________________________________________ isoc mailing list isoc@lists.my.co.ke <http://mc/compose?to=isoc@lists.my.co.ke> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/isoc

-- Grace L.N. Mutung'u (Bomu) Kenya Skype: gracebomu Twitter: GraceMutung'u (Bomu)

-- Sent from my mobile device

Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno _______________________________________________ isoc mailing list isoc@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/isoc

-- Sent from my mobile device Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno

Listers, Grace has volunteered to lead a working group that will redo the bylaws, if you are interested please let her know on the list, I propose that we have another meeting on Friday next week, let's propose the time so that we can try identify a suitable venue, meanwhile let us continue sending in our comments on the draft bylaws and the type of organisation we would want whether a society or an NGO. On 9/2/11, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Grace, I would go for a Society as stated earlier NGOs can be a headache to manage.

On 9/2/11, Grace Mutung'u (Bomu) <nmutungu@gmail.com> wrote:

...

To decide the body we want, we must first agree on what ISOC Kenya wants to do. Here is some basic info: -------- Society: 10 or more people registered under the Societies Act for purposes of association. Easy to register and operate as one only has to have elections as per society's Constitution and file annual returns which do not attract many taxes. Ideal for democratic groups of people associating as a co-curricular activity because members can carry out a wide scope of activities as described in their constitution. Requirements for registration: constitution,registered office, interim officials, statutory fees...

Trust/Foundation: Very ambiguous in Kenyan law. Requires execution of a trust deed with names of trustees. returns require filing of trust accounts (because a trust basically means keeping properties on behalf of others) Many foundations which carry out a lot of activities end up just registering a company limited by guarantee (eg KENIC)where the law is clearer.

NGO "Non-Governmental Organization" means a private voluntary grouping of individuals or associations, not operated for profit or for other commercial purposes but which have organized themselves nationally or internationally for the benefit of the public at large and for the promotion of social welfare, development charity or research in the areas inclusive of, but not restricted to, health, relief, agriculture, education, industry and the supply of amenities and services.....this definitely excludes public bodies

To register an NGO one needs a constitution, a declaration on offices of the organization;the head office and postal address of the organization; the sectors of the proposed operations; the districts, divisions and locations of the proposed activities; the proposed average annual budgets; the duration of the activities; all sources of funding;national and international affiliation. They are subject to taxes.

Cheers, Grace

2011/9/2 Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com>

...

You can also be a Trust. Mayb @Bomu could explore which is the better option..Society, NGO, Trust, Foundation etc.

walu.

--- On *Fri, 9/2/11, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>* wrote:

From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [ISOC_KE] Draft By Laws ISOC_Ke To: "Grace Mutung'u (Bomu)" <nmutungu@gmail.com>, "McTim" < dogwallah@gmail.com>, isoc@lists.my.co.ke Date: Friday, September 2, 2011, 1:02 AM

Absolutely Grace, I wonder what's the take of members, should we just be a society or an NGO, I prefer the former, secondly how will the society relate with our cctld registry?

On 9/1/11, Grace Mutung'u (Bomu) <nmutungu@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=nmutungu@gmail.com>> wrote:

...

BTW, this society also has to be registered in Kenya with the Registrar of Societies. Someone should keep that in mind as we apply for the chapter registration too. Yes, I will be happy to assist once people have given their input. Cheers!

2011/9/1 Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=otieno.barrack@gmail.com>

...

Thanks McTim and Grace for your insightfull responses, Grace and any other members from the legal fraternity, do you mind volunteering your expertise to help refine the document, as mentioned a member volunteered to put this together and it is great to see the reactions coming forth, what do other members think?, Jolie posted a copy of bylaws for the NY chapter we can also compare the two.

On 9/1/11, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=dogwallah@gmail.com>> wrote:

...

Hi,

Where did these come from? (copy and pasted from somewhere else I imagine, as it would be a lot of work to write up new by-laws from scratch!)

here are my nits picked:

1.ii "To represent the Kenyan Internet community in government committees and in other local and international forums that deal with the various technical, legal and social aspects of the Internet,"

Are such bodies as ISOC allowed to sit on government committees? Or are we talking about things like the ICT Board and IPv6 forum??

I would like Section 1. to say more about increasing Interent access in Kenya I think.

When did we decide we would have dues paying members? I had thought that was an open issue?

Section 7:

"7. Any members of the Chapter may file charges against a member by filing a written complaint with the Secretary of the Chapter."

WTF is this about? Is this needed? really?

Article IV

2". Board membership shall be drawn from key sectors of the Kenyan Internet community, primarily sponsoring organizations:

Government (1)

Private Sector (2)

Academia (1)

Civil Society (1)

Members-at-large (2)"

I'm not so keen on divvying up seats like this. What if we can't find a good person from gov't to sit on the Board? Will we be then forced to have a clueless person on the Board just to satisfy the By-laws?

Same with the other stakeholder groups I think.

In general I think we will have problems due to the gender parity rules.

If there are 7 board Members, and 1/3 must be women, then that means at least 3 women. If there are 4 officer seats, and a 1/3 must be women, then that means 2 women at all times must be Officers.

What if we have problems recruiting that many women willing to serve?

Article XII 1:

"All proposed changes to these Chapter Bylaws shall have been approved by the Senior Manager, Chapters and individual Memberships"

Who is the "Senior Manager" ?

In general I find it to be a very formal document, suggesting physical offices, Standing committees, etc. Will we be able to sustain such an operation?

What will our source(s) of funding come from?

For a first draft tho, it's not bad!

Regards,

McTim

On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 12:47 PM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:

> Listers, > > Kindly go through the attached document prepared by one of us, let > us > comment on the same before the next meeting. > > -- > Barrack O. Otieno > Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) > www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, > www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> > <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar > +254721325277 > +254-20-2498789 > Skype: barrack.otieno > > > _______________________________________________ > isoc mailing list > isoc@lists.my.co.ke <http://mc/compose?to=isoc@lists.my.co.ke> > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/isoc > >

-- Cheers,

McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel

-- Sent from my mobile device

Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno _______________________________________________ isoc mailing list isoc@lists.my.co.ke <http://mc/compose?to=isoc@lists.my.co.ke> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/isoc

-- Grace L.N. Mutung'u (Bomu) Kenya Skype: gracebomu Twitter: GraceMutung'u (Bomu)

-- Sent from my mobile device

Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno _______________________________________________ isoc mailing list isoc@lists.my.co.ke <http://mc/compose?to=isoc@lists.my.co.ke> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/isoc

-- Grace L.N. Mutung'u (Bomu) Kenya Skype: gracebomu Twitter: GraceMutung'u (Bomu)

-- Sent from my mobile device

Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno

-- Sent from my mobile device Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno

My opinion. Non-state body cannot assume a state function defined by law as such. Read Section 84J and 84K on Kenya Information And Communications Act,2009 (Cap 411A Laws of Kenya) stating:- - - - Establishment of the Fund. (1 of 2009, s.31.) Part VIB—Universal Service Fund 84J. (1) There is hereby established a fund to be known as the Universal Service Fund which shall be managed and administered by the Commission. (2) The object and the purpose of the Fund shall be to support widespread access to, support capacity building and promote innovation in information and communications technology services. (3) There shall be a universal service levy (in this Part referred to as the “levy”) that shall be charged by the Commission on the licensees under this Act for purposes of the Universal Service Fund. - - - Revenue and expenditure of the Fund.(1 of 2009, s.31.) - - - 84K. (1) There shall be credited to the Fund— (a) levies from licensees; (b) such monies as may be provided by Parliament for that purpose; (c) repayment of the principal sum and interest on any loan granted by the Commission; (d) income from any investment made by the Commission; and (e) any gifts, donations, grants and endowments made to the Fund. (2) There shall be paid out of the Fund any expenditure approved by the Board for the purposes of and the administration of the Fund. - -

...

end opinion >>

Alex Gakuru On Sat, Sep 3, 2011 at 9:09 AM, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Grace,

I've had a wild idea, and want to see if it is at all possible.

What sort of organisation would we need to form to administer the USF?

It doesn't seem that CCK is doing much in this regard, and it could be a great source of sustainability AND a way to meet our public interest obligations at the same time?

Opinions Please!

--

Cheers,

McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel

On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 10:25 AM, Grace Mutung'u (Bomu) <nmutungu@gmail.com

...

wrote:

...

To decide the body we want, we must first agree on what ISOC Kenya wants to do. Here is some basic info: -------- Society: 10 or more people registered under the Societies Act for purposes of association. Easy to register and operate as one only has to have elections as per society's Constitution and file annual returns which do not attract many taxes. Ideal for democratic groups of people associating as a co-curricular activity because members can carry out a wide scope of activities as described in their constitution. Requirements for registration: constitution,registered office, interim officials, statutory fees...

Trust/Foundation: Very ambiguous in Kenyan law. Requires execution of a trust deed with names of trustees. returns require filing of trust accounts (because a trust basically means keeping properties on behalf of others) Many foundations which carry out a lot of activities end up just registering a company limited by guarantee (eg KENIC)where the law is clearer.

NGO "Non-Governmental Organization" means a private voluntary grouping of individuals or associations, not operated for profit or for other commercial purposes but which have organized themselves nationally or internationally for the benefit of the public at large and for the promotion of social welfare, development charity or research in the areas inclusive of, but not restricted to, health, relief, agriculture, education, industry and the supply of amenities and services.....this definitely excludes public bodies

To register an NGO one needs a constitution, a declaration on offices of the organization;the head office and postal address of the organization; the sectors of the proposed operations; the districts, divisions and locations of the proposed activities; the proposed average annual budgets; the duration of the activities; all sources of funding;national and international affiliation. They are subject to taxes.

Cheers, Grace

2011/9/2 Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com>

...

You can also be a Trust. Mayb @Bomu could explore which is the better option..Society, NGO, Trust, Foundation etc.

walu.

--- On *Fri, 9/2/11, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>* wrote:

From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [ISOC_KE] Draft By Laws ISOC_Ke To: "Grace Mutung'u (Bomu)" <nmutungu@gmail.com>, "McTim" < dogwallah@gmail.com>, isoc@lists.my.co.ke Date: Friday, September 2, 2011, 1:02 AM

Absolutely Grace, I wonder what's the take of members, should we just be a society or an NGO, I prefer the former, secondly how will the society relate with our cctld registry?

On 9/1/11, Grace Mutung'u (Bomu) <nmutungu@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=nmutungu@gmail.com>> wrote:

...

BTW, this society also has to be registered in Kenya with the Registrar of Societies. Someone should keep that in mind as we apply for the chapter registration too. Yes, I will be happy to assist once people have given their input. Cheers!

2011/9/1 Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=otieno.barrack@gmail.com>

...

Thanks McTim and Grace for your insightfull responses, Grace and any other members from the legal fraternity, do you mind volunteering your expertise to help refine the document, as mentioned a member volunteered to put this together and it is great to see the reactions coming forth, what do other members think?, Jolie posted a copy of bylaws for the NY chapter we can also compare the two.

On 9/1/11, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=dogwallah@gmail.com>> wrote:

...

Hi,

Where did these come from? (copy and pasted from somewhere else I imagine, as it would be a lot of work to write up new by-laws from scratch!)

here are my nits picked:

1.ii "To represent the Kenyan Internet community in government committees and in other local and international forums that deal with the various technical, legal and social aspects of the Internet,"

Are such bodies as ISOC allowed to sit on government committees? Or are we talking about things like the ICT Board and IPv6 forum??

I would like Section 1. to say more about increasing Interent access in Kenya I think.

When did we decide we would have dues paying members? I had thought that was an open issue?

Section 7:

"7. Any members of the Chapter may file charges against a member by filing a written complaint with the Secretary of the Chapter."

WTF is this about? Is this needed? really?

Article IV

2". Board membership shall be drawn from key sectors of the Kenyan Internet community, primarily sponsoring organizations:

Government (1)

Private Sector (2)

Academia (1)

Civil Society (1)

Members-at-large (2)"

I'm not so keen on divvying up seats like this. What if we can't find a good person from gov't to sit on the Board? Will we be then forced to have a clueless person on the Board just to satisfy the By-laws?

Same with the other stakeholder groups I think.

In general I think we will have problems due to the gender parity rules.

If there are 7 board Members, and 1/3 must be women, then that means at least 3 women. If there are 4 officer seats, and a 1/3 must be women, then that means 2 women at all times must be Officers.

What if we have problems recruiting that many women willing to serve?

Article XII 1:

"All proposed changes to these Chapter Bylaws shall have been approved by the Senior Manager, Chapters and individual Memberships"

Who is the "Senior Manager" ?

In general I find it to be a very formal document, suggesting physical offices, Standing committees, etc. Will we be able to sustain such an operation?

What will our source(s) of funding come from?

For a first draft tho, it's not bad!

Regards,

McTim

On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 12:47 PM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:

> Listers, > > Kindly go through the attached document prepared by one of us, let us > comment on the same before the next meeting. > > -- > Barrack O. Otieno > Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) > www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, > www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> > <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar > +254721325277 > +254-20-2498789 > Skype: barrack.otieno > > > _______________________________________________ > isoc mailing list > isoc@lists.my.co.ke <http://mc/compose?to=isoc@lists.my.co.ke> > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/isoc > >

-- Cheers,

McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel

-- Sent from my mobile device

Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno _______________________________________________ isoc mailing list isoc@lists.my.co.ke <http://mc/compose?to=isoc@lists.my.co.ke> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/isoc

-- Grace L.N. Mutung'u (Bomu) Kenya Skype: gracebomu Twitter: GraceMutung'u (Bomu)

-- Sent from my mobile device

Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno _______________________________________________ isoc mailing list isoc@lists.my.co.ke <http://mc/compose?to=isoc@lists.my.co.ke> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/isoc

-- Grace L.N. Mutung'u (Bomu) Kenya Skype: gracebomu Twitter: GraceMutung'u (Bomu)

_______________________________________________ isoc mailing list isoc@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/isoc

As it is, the Board is the one that has power to administer the Fund. 2011/9/3 Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>

Interesting perspectives McTim and Alex, recipe for an interesting debate.

On 9/3/11, Alex Gakuru <gakuru@gmail.com> wrote:

...

My opinion. Non-state body cannot assume a state function defined by law as such. Read Section 84J and 84K on Kenya Information And Communications Act,2009 (Cap 411A Laws of Kenya) stating:- - - - Establishment of the Fund. (1 of 2009, s.31.)

Part VIB—Universal Service Fund

84J. (1) There is hereby established a fund to be known as the Universal Service Fund which shall be managed and administered by the Commission.

(2) The object and the purpose of the Fund shall be to support widespread access to, support capacity building and promote innovation in information and communications technology services.

(3) There shall be a universal service levy (in this Part referred to as the “levy”) that shall be charged by the Commission on the licensees under this Act for purposes of the Universal Service Fund. - - - Revenue and expenditure of the Fund.(1 of 2009, s.31.) - - - 84K. (1) There shall be credited to the Fund— (a) levies from licensees; (b) such monies as may be provided by Parliament for that purpose; (c) repayment of the principal sum and interest on any loan granted by the Commission; (d) income from any investment made by the Commission; and (e) any gifts, donations, grants and endowments made to the Fund.

(2) There shall be paid out of the Fund any expenditure approved by the Board for the purposes of and the administration of the Fund.

- -

...

...

end opinion >>

Alex Gakuru

On Sat, Sep 3, 2011 at 9:09 AM, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Hi Grace,

I've had a wild idea, and want to see if it is at all possible.

What sort of organisation would we need to form to administer the USF?

It doesn't seem that CCK is doing much in this regard, and it could be a great source of sustainability AND a way to meet our public interest obligations at the same time?

Opinions Please!

--

Cheers,

McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel

On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 10:25 AM, Grace Mutung'u (Bomu) < nmutungu@gmail.com

...

wrote:

...

To decide the body we want, we must first agree on what ISOC Kenya wants to do. Here is some basic info: -------- Society: 10 or more people registered under the Societies Act for purposes of association. Easy to register and operate as one only has to have elections as per society's Constitution and file annual returns which do not attract many taxes. Ideal for democratic groups of people associating as a co-curricular activity because members can carry out a wide scope of activities as described in their constitution. Requirements for registration: constitution,registered office, interim officials, statutory fees...

Trust/Foundation: Very ambiguous in Kenyan law. Requires execution of a trust deed with names of trustees. returns require filing of trust accounts (because a trust basically means keeping properties on behalf of others) Many foundations which carry out a lot of activities end up just registering a company limited by guarantee (eg KENIC)where the law is clearer.

NGO "Non-Governmental Organization" means a private voluntary grouping of individuals or associations, not operated for profit or for other commercial purposes but which have organized themselves nationally or internationally for the benefit of the public at large and for the promotion of social welfare, development charity or research in the areas inclusive of, but not restricted to, health, relief, agriculture, education, industry and the supply of amenities and services.....this definitely excludes public bodies

To register an NGO one needs a constitution, a declaration on offices of the organization;the head office and postal address of the organization; the sectors of the proposed operations; the districts, divisions and locations of the proposed activities; the proposed average annual budgets; the duration of the activities; all sources of funding;national and international affiliation. They are subject to taxes.

Cheers, Grace

2011/9/2 Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com>

...

You can also be a Trust. Mayb @Bomu could explore which is the better option..Society, NGO, Trust, Foundation etc.

walu.

--- On *Fri, 9/2/11, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>* wrote:

From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [ISOC_KE] Draft By Laws ISOC_Ke To: "Grace Mutung'u (Bomu)" <nmutungu@gmail.com>, "McTim" < dogwallah@gmail.com>, isoc@lists.my.co.ke Date: Friday, September 2, 2011, 1:02 AM

Absolutely Grace, I wonder what's the take of members, should we just be a society or an NGO, I prefer the former, secondly how will the society relate with our cctld registry?

On 9/1/11, Grace Mutung'u (Bomu) <nmutungu@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=nmutungu@gmail.com>> wrote:

...

BTW, this society also has to be registered in Kenya with the Registrar of Societies. Someone should keep that in mind as we apply for the chapter registration too. Yes, I will be happy to assist once people have given their input. Cheers!

2011/9/1 Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com< http://mc/compose?to=otieno.barrack@gmail.com>

> Thanks McTim and Grace for your insightfull responses, Grace and any > other members from the legal fraternity, do you mind volunteering > your > expertise to help refine the document, as mentioned a member > volunteered to put this together and it is great to see the reactions > coming forth, what do other members think?, Jolie posted a copy of > bylaws for the NY chapter we can also compare the two. > > On 9/1/11, McTim > <dogwallah@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=dogwallah@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Where did these come from? (copy and pasted from somewhere else I > imagine, > > as it would be a lot of work to write up new by-laws from scratch!) > > > > here are my nits picked: > > > > 1.ii > > "To represent the Kenyan Internet community in government > > committees and > in > > other local and international forums that deal with the various > > technical, legal and social aspects of the Internet," > > > > Are such bodies as ISOC allowed to sit on government committees? Or are > we > > talking about things like the ICT Board and IPv6 forum?? > > > > > > I would like Section 1. to say more about increasing Interent > > access in > > Kenya I think. > > > > When did we decide we would have dues paying members? I had > > thought > > that > > was an open issue? > > > > Section 7: > > > > "7. Any members of the Chapter may file charges against a member by > filing a > > written complaint with the Secretary of the Chapter." > > > > WTF is this about? Is this needed? really? > > > > > > Article IV > > > > 2". Board membership shall be drawn from key sectors of the Kenyan > > Internet community, primarily sponsoring organizations: > > > > > > Government (1) > > > > Private Sector (2) > > > > Academia (1) > > > > Civil Society (1) > > > > Members-at-large (2)" > > > > > > I'm not so keen on divvying up seats like this. What if we can't find a > > good person from gov't to sit on the Board? Will we be then forced to > have > > a clueless person on the Board just to satisfy the By-laws? > > > > Same with the other stakeholder groups I think. > > > > > > In general I think we will have problems due to the gender parity rules. > > > > > > If there are 7 board Members, and 1/3 must be women, then that > > means at > > least 3 women. If there are 4 officer seats, and a 1/3 must be women, > then > > that means 2 women at all times must be Officers. > > > > What if we have problems recruiting that many women willing to serve? > > > > Article XII 1: > > > > "All proposed changes to these Chapter Bylaws shall have been approved > > by > > the Senior Manager, Chapters and individual Memberships" > > > > Who is the "Senior Manager" ? > > > > In general I find it to be a very formal document, suggesting physical > > offices, Standing committees, etc. Will we be able to sustain such an > > operation? > > > > What will our source(s) of funding come from? > > > > For a first draft tho, it's not bad! > > > > Regards, > > > > McTim > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 12:47 PM, Barrack Otieno > > <otieno.barrack@gmail.com< http://mc/compose?to=otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> Listers, > >> > >> Kindly go through the attached document prepared by one of us, let us > >> comment on the same before the next meeting. > >> > >> -- > >> Barrack O. Otieno > >> Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) > >> www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, > >> www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> > >> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar > >> +254721325277 > >> +254-20-2498789 > >> Skype: barrack.otieno > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> isoc mailing list > >> isoc@lists.my.co.ke <http://mc/compose?to=isoc@orion.my.co.ke> > >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/isoc > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > Cheers, > > > > McTim > > "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A > > route > > indicates how we get there." Jon Postel > > > > -- > Sent from my mobile device > > Barrack O. Otieno > Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) > www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, > www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> > <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar > +254721325277 > +254-20-2498789 > Skype: barrack.otieno > _______________________________________________ > isoc mailing list > isoc@lists.my.co.ke <http://mc/compose?to=isoc@lists.my.co.ke> > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/isoc >

-- Grace L.N. Mutung'u (Bomu) Kenya Skype: gracebomu Twitter: GraceMutung'u (Bomu)

-- Sent from my mobile device

Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno _______________________________________________ isoc mailing list isoc@lists.my.co.ke <http://mc/compose?to=isoc@lists.my.co.ke> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/isoc

-- Grace L.N. Mutung'u (Bomu) Kenya Skype: gracebomu Twitter: GraceMutung'u (Bomu)

_______________________________________________ isoc mailing list isoc@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/isoc

-- Sent from my mobile device

Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno _______________________________________________ isoc mailing list isoc@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/isoc

-- Grace L.N. Mutung'u (Bomu) Kenya Skype: gracebomu Twitter: GraceMutung'u (Bomu)

@McTim, @GG, all; Stakeholders: It's a good idea to have multi-sectoral representation, different stakeholder groups bring different value. While at it, we should also consider including the media. Relationship with ccTLD: Sign a partnership agreement with the ccTLD registry, maybe more beneficial to both entities. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> Sender: isoc-bounces@orion.my.co.ke Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 22:51:33 To: Barrack Otieno<otieno.barrack@gmail.com> Cc: <isoc@orion.my.co.ke> Subject: Re: [ISOC_KE] Draft By Laws ISOC_Ke _______________________________________________ isoc mailing list isoc@orion.my.co.ke http://orion.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/isoc