Hello folks, My provider has said they are NOT giving any SLAs on clients connected to SEACOM. This decision did not even seem to take into consideration any factors about the "last mile". I wonder why this is so? Shall I go to court (or to hell)?? :-) -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ "If you have nothing good to say about someone, just shut up!." -- Lucky Dube
Am not an authority on this matter, but the world over SLA's are a mandatory requirement for anyone providing communication services, otherwise how else would they be held accountable?? This should NOT come from Seacom coz Seacom provides SLAs to all its clients. Wash, those guyz should be exposed. PS Ndemo has really been fibre-butchered lately so i will avoid passing the buck to him and push it over to the Executive- CCK! If Afsat and Uunet offer SLAs on satellite, why not fibre? On 8/24/09, Odhiambo ワシントン <odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello folks,
My provider has said they are NOT giving any SLAs on clients connected to SEACOM. This decision did not even seem to take into consideration any factors about the "last mile". I wonder why this is so? Shall I go to court (or to hell)?? :-)
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ "If you have nothing good to say about someone, just shut up!." -- Lucky Dube
-- People should know when they are conquered.
2009/8/24 nyarotho kennedy <kenyarotho@gmail.com>
Am not an authority on this matter, but the world over SLA's are a mandatory requirement for anyone providing communication services, otherwise how else would they be held accountable?? This should NOT come from Seacom coz Seacom provides SLAs to all its clients. Wash, those guyz should be exposed. PS Ndemo has really been fibre-butchered lately so i will avoid passing the buck to him and push it over to the Executive- CCK! If Afsat and Uunet offer SLAs on satellite, why not fibre?
KDN are refusing to give me an SLA for a 512/512kbps connection on SEACOM. -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ "If you have nothing good to say about someone, just shut up!." -- Lucky Dube
@ Wash, have you enquired @ what kbps they are likely to offer SLA'S, if not what you've indicated? I think SLA's are not to be bargained over the counter. It is a right to have it! -- Solomon Mburu P.O. Box 19343 - 00202 Nairobi Cell: (+254-0) 735 431041 Man is a gregarious animal and enjoys agreement as cows will graze all the same way to the side of a hill! AND It is better to die in dignity than in the ignomity of ambiguous generosity!
BTW, where is our KDN guy on this issue? I hope he's not gone under or contacted Wash offlist or the census fever + holiday has not landed on him! -- Solomon Mburu P.O. Box 19343 - 00202 Nairobi Cell: (+254-0) 735 431041 Man is a gregarious animal and enjoys agreement as cows will graze all the same way to the side of a hill! AND It is better to die in dignity than in the ignomity of ambiguous generosity!
BTW, where is our KDN guy on this issue? I hope he's not gone under or contacted Wash offlist or the census fever + holiday has not landed on him! -- Solomon Mburu P.O. Box 19343 - 00202 Nairobi Cell: (+254-0) 735 431041 Man is a gregarious animal and enjoys agreement as cows will graze all the same way to the side of a hill! AND It is better to die in dignity than in the ignomity of ambiguous generosity!
Mburu, I am yet to get the drift this time around. What information can KDN bring into this whole issue? Rgds, Dan O.Kwach, Kenya Data Networks. Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone from Zain Kenya -----Original Message----- From: Solomon Mburu <solo.mburu@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:57:55 To: Skunkworks forum<skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] SLA on Submarine Fiber BTW, where is our KDN guy on this issue? I hope he's not gone under or contacted Wash offlist or the census fever + holiday has not landed on him! -- Solomon Mburu P.O. Box 19343 - 00202 Nairobi Cell: (+254-0) 735 431041 Man is a gregarious animal and enjoys agreement as cows will graze all the same way to the side of a hill! AND It is better to die in dignity than in the ignomity of ambiguous generosity! _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general
KDN are refusing to give me an SLA for a 512/512kbps connection on SEACOM.
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223
Hi @Wash, they should be giving an SLA service, afterall you pay for a fixed charge each month on a 24/7/365 basis. If they cannot guarantee uptime, QOS or other factors on an SLA, including guaranteed latencies between Nairobi/Mombasa then we all are back to square zero. The duplex 512kbps that you intend to purchase should be a guaranteed circuit all the way to the internet backbone, not just mumbai, esle there will be dodgy business models at landing stations. KDN should have a tiered SLA between them and Seacom as carriers. That's why seacom also offer IPLC on their cable technology allows it. KDN is a positive serious hope in the overall fiber mess, hopefully we will get some positive feedback from Dan @ KDN. I also think Seacom should be pressured to deal inland and directly with end users. Eassy has a similar concept. To further this, I read last week that AK have bought 2.5Gps on seacom but say they will only double bandwidth to clients at existing pricing. Hmmm... why are SPs trying end user/consumer patience with misleading info about capacity costs and pricing? Lets see what Teams brings, the promise of redundancy and better rates. Exciting times ahead.....
Riyaz Bachani <riyaz.bachani@ke.wananchi.com
Hi Aki, Where exactly is the internet backbone ? ;) Some of the major networks now all go through Mumbai. Not to mention 2 Indian companies now own the biggest submarine fiber >networks in the world. Seacom offers an SLA, as I believe all their partners also do. But there's been like 4 outages now since >Seacom went live on the Msa-Nbi route ... really need some redundancy there. Seacom gives the same price inland through a >partnership agreement with KDN ie they sell at the same price anywhere, using KDN's backbone. They also sell directly to >consumers. They do have a license to roll out long-distance terrestrial fiber if they need to as well.
Hey Riyaz, :-) To clarify what I meant about the backbone was tiered services on the cables. These are SLA-ized between carriers at various tiers as you know too. Mumbai is a hub but I believe there are some routes that have guaranteed route rates with escalations/costs to match the tiered trunks. In the case of Washington's 512kbps, this I'd assume carries an SLA between KDN ( Nai-Mombasa ) and Seacom ( Mombasa-Mumbai), therefore his purchase SLA is guaranteed from Nairobi to Mumbai ( top tier here with seacom ), less natural calamities. Thanks for the update on Seacom. BTW, would you know when zuku go fully operational with real broadband i.e data rates of 50-200KB/s, including allowing return voip services? I think your rate for a 1Mbit package was ksh 7000/-? And will it be offered with a public subnet ( subnet can be charged seperately annualy ) i.e allow tech people to do hosting at home etc... It would make ideal backup for offices. My apology if I was a big aggressive on the list around the time of Seacom launch, the days that followed were a terrible disappointment.... :-)
----- Original Message ----- From: "aki" <aki275@googlemail.com> To: "Skunkworks forum" <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 9:29:42 PM GMT +03:00 Iraq Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] SLA on Submarine Fiber
Riyaz Bachani < riyaz.bachani@ke.wananchi.com
Hi Aki, Where exactly is the internet backbone ? ;) Some of the major networks now all go through Mumbai. Not to mention 2 Indian companies now own the biggest submarine fiber >networks in the world. Seacom offers an SLA, as I believe all their partners also do. But there's been like 4 outages now since >Seacom went live on the Msa-Nbi route ... really need some redundancy there. Seacom gives the same price inland through a >partnership agreement with KDN ie they sell at the same price anywhere, using KDN's backbone. They also sell directly to >consumers. They do have a license to roll out long-distance terrestrial fiber if they need to as well.
Hey Riyaz, :-) To clarify what I meant about the backbone was tiered services on the cables. These are SLA-ized between carriers at various tiers as you know too. Mumbai is a hub but I believe there are some routes that have guaranteed route rates with escalations/costs to match the tiered trunks. In the case of Washington's 512kbps, this I'd assume carries an SLA between KDN ( Nai-Mombasa ) and Seacom ( Mombasa-Mumbai), therefore his purchase SLA is guaranteed from Nairobi to Mumbai ( top tier here with seacom ), less natural calamities. Thanks for the update on Seacom. BTW, would you know when zuku go fully operational with real broadband i.e data rates of 50-200KB/s, including allowing return voip services? I think your rate for a 1Mbit package was ksh 7000/-? And will it be offered with a public subnet ( subnet can be charged seperately annualy ) i.e allow tech people to do hosting at home etc... It would make ideal backup for offices. My apology if I was a big aggressive on the list around the time of Seacom launch, the days that followed were a terrible disappointment.... :-) ______________________________________________ Aki, I hope you're still sticking to your EDGE service - I'm still watching :) All carriers have SLAs, it's just natural that you should get one. All the circuits sold on SEACOM are actually TDM circuits ie dedicated slots all the way to London (unless you specifically choose to break out in India). Then you get IP Transit in London, which is where IP, and the shared internet comes in. Now obviously over this TDM pipe everyone runs IP, which is the internet ie all shared, but still running with SLAs. Zuku ... should have some of these rates :) 256k to 1mbps. The 1mbps package comes for 10,000 and 15,000 (MegaSurf and SMESurf). However, watch out for some good offers coming soon. You can get a static public IP on any of the 1mbps packages at no extra cost. Can't really give IP Subnets - this is supposed to be a residential mass market product. Preferably people would choose to use it in their homes ;) R _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general
Riyaz Bachani < riyaz.bachani@ke.wananchi.com
Aki, I hope you're still sticking to your EDGE service - I'm still watching :)
Hehehe.. :-) Actually Riyaz, I've cooled off for now, still on 3g+ and patiently awaiting for SPs' to settle with Teams, pricing and speeds. General comment : If the status quo exists even after 6-8 months then I think it will be necessary to become online tech activitists and naturally take the issues battles to SPs calling for price boycotts of internet services via websites/mass emailers through consumer awareness. But then I also do not want a run in with the shadows.....or SPs suing for bad publicity etc. But hopefully something good will come out of the fiber situations and we can move on to other important things. My amatuer thots.. :-)
On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 8:05 PM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
KDN are refusing to give me an SLA for a 512/512kbps connection on SEACOM.
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223
Hi @Wash, they should be giving an SLA service, afterall you pay for a fixed charge each month on a 24/7/365 basis. If they cannot guarantee uptime, QOS or other factors on an SLA, including guaranteed latencies between Nairobi/Mombasa then we all are back to square zero. The duplex 512kbps that you intend to purchase should be a guaranteed circuit all the way to the internet backbone, not just mumbai, esle there will be dodgy business models at landing stations. KDN should have a tiered SLA between them and Seacom as carriers. That's why seacom also offer IPLC on their cable technology allows it. KDN is a positive serious hope in the overall fiber mess, hopefully we will get some positive feedback from Dan @ KDN.
I also think Seacom should be pressured to deal inland and directly with end users. Eassy has a similar concept.
To further this, I read last week that AK have bought 2.5Gps on seacom but say they will only double bandwidth to clients at existing pricing. Hmmm... why are SPs trying end user/consumer patience with misleading info about capacity costs and pricing?
@Aki, Yes, AK is doubling bandwidth at the existing pricing since Friday. No price reductions! -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ "If you have nothing good to say about someone, just shut up!." -- Lucky Dube
Washington, Let us get the finer details and provide proper feedback. Am sure this will clearly be understood should it be KDN being referred to. Also hope you exploited all channels at getting answers in this regard with the provider. Rgds, Dan O.Kwach, Kenya Data Networks. Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone from Zain Kenya -----Original Message----- From: Odhiambo odhiambo@gmail.com Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:23:40 To: Skunkworks forum<skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Subject: [Skunkworks] SLA on Submarine Fiber _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general
On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 7:28 PM, <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote:
Washington,
Let us get the finer details and provide proper feedback.
Am sure this will clearly be understood should it be KDN being referred to. Also hope you exploited all channels at getting answers in this regard with the provider.
@Dan, When an Account Manager tells you (before you sign up) that they (read the company) will give an SLA on the service, only to turn around and tell you that "actually, she's reliably informed the company does not give SLA on submarine cable service", what else do you do? Which channel do you follow? It's never possible to get to talk to someone (at a higher level than ) other than the Account Manager. As it stands, I asked the Account Manager to put the same on "paper" (e-mail) that that is the case. That did not come forth! If you'd like more details, I am here to answer any questions but only after you say it in open daylight whether or not KDN gives SLAs on fiber connection. -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ "If you have nothing good to say about someone, just shut up!." -- Lucky Dube
Wash, The fact is: KDN does NOT provide an SLA for the submarine fiber just yet. Reason: The details of such an SLA are being worked on. We have some considerations to make with such an SLA. The ever prolonged outage due to faults on the seaside is but a major contributor. KDN Purposes to put in place a meaningful SLA especially once we have redundancy on the Undersea cable through TEAMS besides KDN's redundant terrestrial fiber to Msa via Garissa. This loose arrangement in regard to the SLA is a point that KDN ensures a customer well understands before-hand. From your explanation, it appears the SLA was discussed as an afterthought between you and an Account Manager after you had your connection activated. BTW- We - read Skunks! Really need also redefine the local objectives for an SLA to some level. Is the SLA meant to push for financial penalties on the Providers/ISP end to the customer or is it meant to challenge the Provider/ISP deliver better services to the customer? Of the 2, which should be our focus? It is with consideration of such boggling thoughts that any Service Provider will take great caution on how and what type of an SLA need be in place in regard to the undersea cable connection(s). All in all, the bottom line is - KDN would wish to plug in an SLA with every customer once it is confirmed tenable by both parties. You can be sure we do this so as to keep up the tempo in providing satisfactory services to our esteemed customers. Rgds, Dan O.Kwach, Kenya Data Networks. Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone from Zain Kenya -----Original Message----- From: Odhiambo ワシントン <odhiambo@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:44:07 To: <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke>; Skunkworks forum<skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] SLA on Submarine Fiber On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 7:28 PM, <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote:
Washington,
Let us get the finer details and provide proper feedback.
Am sure this will clearly be understood should it be KDN being referred to. Also hope you exploited all channels at getting answers in this regard with the provider.
@Dan, When an Account Manager tells you (before you sign up) that they (read the company) will give an SLA on the service, only to turn around and tell you that "actually, she's reliably informed the company does not give SLA on submarine cable service", what else do you do? Which channel do you follow? It's never possible to get to talk to someone (at a higher level than ) other than the Account Manager. As it stands, I asked the Account Manager to put the same on "paper" (e-mail) that that is the case. That did not come forth! If you'd like more details, I am here to answer any questions but only after you say it in open daylight whether or not KDN gives SLAs on fiber connection. -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ "If you have nothing good to say about someone, just shut up!." -- Lucky Dube
On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 7:42 AM, <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote:
Wash,
The fact is: KDN does NOT provide an SLA for the submarine fiber just yet.
Reason: The details of such an SLA are being worked on. We have some considerations to make with such an SLA. The ever prolonged outage due to faults on the seaside is but a major contributor.
KDN Purposes to put in place a meaningful SLA especially once we have redundancy on the Undersea cable through TEAMS besides KDN's redundant terrestrial fiber to Msa via Garissa. This loose arrangement in regard to the SLA is a point that KDN ensures a customer well understands before-hand. From your explanation, it appears the SLA was discussed as an afterthought between you and an Account Manager after you had your connection activated.
Dan, let me get this clear. I was paying US$ 1,189/mo for a 256/256kbps with KDN on Satellite since November last year and KDN never gave any SLA. I raised this issue with the Account Manager even before signing up for the submarine connection. So let me ask: Does a customer always have to request for the SLA or does it form part of the contract that KDN makes with the client? In my case, I raised the issue of the SLA before hand, given that I di dnot get any with the previous service. I was rather shocked when I was told there will be no SLA. Forget your argument that KDN is still working on redundancy, which I feel is mere PR. I just think you should not be selling to me something I consider so critical to business operations without SLA. It makes me think again and ask: Why is KDN in a hurry to sell a service that it know it can't guarantee as yet? Your position makes me think Access Kenya has a way with customers - they are not selling the submarine fiber connectivity as yet but have clients connected to it and guess what, the quality of the AK link is much better: AccessKenya: C2811-Telecity#sh ip sl mo st 10 Round trip time (RTT) Index 10 Latest RTT: 227 ms Latest operation start time: 09:59:06.155 GDT Thu Aug 20 2009 Latest operation return code: OK RTT Values Number Of RTT: 40 RTT Min/Avg/Max: 205/227/262 ms Latency one-way time milliseconds Number of one-way Samples: 40 Source to Destination one way Min/Avg/Max: 118/122/136 ms Destination to Source one way Min/Avg/Max: 85/105/140 ms Jitter time milliseconds Number of Jitter Samples: 39 Source to Destination Jitter Min/Avg/Max: 1/4/13 ms Destination to Source Jitter Min/Avg/Max: 2/12/36 ms Packet Loss Values Loss Source to Destination: 0 Loss Destination to Source: 0 Out Of Sequence: 0 Tail Drop: 0 Packet Late Arrival: 0 Voice Score Values Calculated Planning Impairment Factor (ICPIF): 0 Mean Opinion Score (MOS): 0 Number of successes: 19 Number of failures: 0 Operation time to live: Forever KDN: C2811-Telecity#sh ip sl mo st 9 Round trip time (RTT) Index 9 Latest RTT: 232 ms Latest operation start time: 09:13:06.184 GDT Thu Aug 20 2009 Latest operation return code: OK RTT Values Number Of RTT: 40 RTT Min/Avg/Max: 217/232/245 ms Latency one-way time milliseconds Number of one-way Samples: 40 Source to Destination one way Min/Avg/Max: 121/124/127 ms Destination to Source one way Min/Avg/Max: 92/107/119 ms Jitter time milliseconds Number of Jitter Samples: 39 Source to Destination Jitter Min/Avg/Max: 1/2/5 ms Destination to Source Jitter Min/Avg/Max: 1/10/24 ms Packet Loss Values Loss Source to Destination: 0 Loss Destination to Source: 0 Out Of Sequence: 0 Tail Drop: 0 Packet Late Arrival: 0 Voice Score Values Calculated Planning Impairment Factor (ICPIF): 0 Mean Opinion Score (MOS): 0 Number of successes: 26 Number of failures: 0 Operation time to live: Forever
BTW- We - read Skunks! Really need also redefine the local objectives for an SLA to some level. Is the SLA meant to push for financial penalties on the Providers/ISP end to the customer or is it meant to challenge the Provider/ISP deliver better services to the customer? Of the 2, which should be our focus?
Both! When you go to a shop to buy an LG TV and insist on a warranty on the same? Simply answer. An SLA is a warranty that you will _deliver_ to the client, so that you do not promise what you can't deliver. It's not for financial penalties - but that only comes as a consequence of you not delivering. Why would I sign a contract without an SLA? What the hell is the contract for? Think about it:-) -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ "If you have nothing good to say about someone, just shut up!." -- Lucky Dube
Hi Wash, I will in no way change your stand. Thanks for the info. Rgds, Dan Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone from Zain Kenya -----Original Message----- From: Odhiambo ワシントン <odhiambo@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 17:06:06 To: <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> Cc: Skunkworks forum<skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] SLA on Submarine Fiber On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 7:42 AM, <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote:
Wash,
The fact is: KDN does NOT provide an SLA for the submarine fiber just yet.
Reason: The details of such an SLA are being worked on. We have some considerations to make with such an SLA. The ever prolonged outage due to faults on the seaside is but a major contributor.
KDN Purposes to put in place a meaningful SLA especially once we have redundancy on the Undersea cable through TEAMS besides KDN's redundant terrestrial fiber to Msa via Garissa. This loose arrangement in regard to the SLA is a point that KDN ensures a customer well understands before-hand. From your explanation, it appears the SLA was discussed as an afterthought between you and an Account Manager after you had your connection activated.
Dan, let me get this clear. I was paying US$ 1,189/mo for a 256/256kbps with KDN on Satellite since November last year and KDN never gave any SLA. I raised this issue with the Account Manager even before signing up for the submarine connection. So let me ask: Does a customer always have to request for the SLA or does it form part of the contract that KDN makes with the client? In my case, I raised the issue of the SLA before hand, given that I di dnot get any with the previous service. I was rather shocked when I was told there will be no SLA. Forget your argument that KDN is still working on redundancy, which I feel is mere PR. I just think you should not be selling to me something I consider so critical to business operations without SLA. It makes me think again and ask: Why is KDN in a hurry to sell a service that it know it can't guarantee as yet? Your position makes me think Access Kenya has a way with customers - they are not selling the submarine fiber connectivity as yet but have clients connected to it and guess what, the quality of the AK link is much better: AccessKenya: C2811-Telecity#sh ip sl mo st 10 Round trip time (RTT) Index 10 Latest RTT: 227 ms Latest operation start time: 09:59:06.155 GDT Thu Aug 20 2009 Latest operation return code: OK RTT Values Number Of RTT: 40 RTT Min/Avg/Max: 205/227/262 ms Latency one-way time milliseconds Number of one-way Samples: 40 Source to Destination one way Min/Avg/Max: 118/122/136 ms Destination to Source one way Min/Avg/Max: 85/105/140 ms Jitter time milliseconds Number of Jitter Samples: 39 Source to Destination Jitter Min/Avg/Max: 1/4/13 ms Destination to Source Jitter Min/Avg/Max: 2/12/36 ms Packet Loss Values Loss Source to Destination: 0 Loss Destination to Source: 0 Out Of Sequence: 0 Tail Drop: 0 Packet Late Arrival: 0 Voice Score Values Calculated Planning Impairment Factor (ICPIF): 0 Mean Opinion Score (MOS): 0 Number of successes: 19 Number of failures: 0 Operation time to live: Forever KDN: C2811-Telecity#sh ip sl mo st 9 Round trip time (RTT) Index 9 Latest RTT: 232 ms Latest operation start time: 09:13:06.184 GDT Thu Aug 20 2009 Latest operation return code: OK RTT Values Number Of RTT: 40 RTT Min/Avg/Max: 217/232/245 ms Latency one-way time milliseconds Number of one-way Samples: 40 Source to Destination one way Min/Avg/Max: 121/124/127 ms Destination to Source one way Min/Avg/Max: 92/107/119 ms Jitter time milliseconds Number of Jitter Samples: 39 Source to Destination Jitter Min/Avg/Max: 1/2/5 ms Destination to Source Jitter Min/Avg/Max: 1/10/24 ms Packet Loss Values Loss Source to Destination: 0 Loss Destination to Source: 0 Out Of Sequence: 0 Tail Drop: 0 Packet Late Arrival: 0 Voice Score Values Calculated Planning Impairment Factor (ICPIF): 0 Mean Opinion Score (MOS): 0 Number of successes: 26 Number of failures: 0 Operation time to live: Forever
BTW- We - read Skunks! Really need also redefine the local objectives for an SLA to some level. Is the SLA meant to push for financial penalties on the Providers/ISP end to the customer or is it meant to challenge the Provider/ISP deliver better services to the customer? Of the 2, which should be our focus?
Both! When you go to a shop to buy an LG TV and insist on a warranty on the same? Simply answer. An SLA is a warranty that you will _deliver_ to the client, so that you do not promise what you can't deliver. It's not for financial penalties - but that only comes as a consequence of you not delivering. Why would I sign a contract without an SLA? What the hell is the contract for? Think about it:-) -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ "If you have nothing good to say about someone, just shut up!." -- Lucky Dube
Anybody from CCK to read the Riot Act here? On 8/25/09, dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote:
Hi Wash,
I will in no way change your stand. Thanks for the info.
Rgds, Dan
Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone from Zain Kenya
-----Original Message----- From: Odhiambo ワシントン <odhiambo@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 17:06:06 To: <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> Cc: Skunkworks forum<skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] SLA on Submarine Fiber
On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 7:42 AM, <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote:
Wash,
The fact is: KDN does NOT provide an SLA for the submarine fiber just yet.
Reason: The details of such an SLA are being worked on. We have some considerations to make with such an SLA. The ever prolonged outage due to faults on the seaside is but a major contributor.
KDN Purposes to put in place a meaningful SLA especially once we have redundancy on the Undersea cable through TEAMS besides KDN's redundant terrestrial fiber to Msa via Garissa. This loose arrangement in regard to the SLA is a point that KDN ensures a customer well understands before-hand. From your explanation, it appears the SLA was discussed as an afterthought between you and an Account Manager after you had your connection activated.
Dan, let me get this clear. I was paying US$ 1,189/mo for a 256/256kbps with KDN on Satellite since November last year and KDN never gave any SLA. I raised this issue with the Account Manager even before signing up for the submarine connection. So let me ask: Does a customer always have to request for the SLA or does it form part of the contract that KDN makes with the client? In my case, I raised the issue of the SLA before hand, given that I di dnot get any with the previous service. I was rather shocked when I was told there will be no SLA. Forget your argument that KDN is still working on redundancy, which I feel is mere PR. I just think you should not be selling to me something I consider so critical to business operations without SLA. It makes me think again and ask: Why is KDN in a hurry to sell a service that it know it can't guarantee as yet? Your position makes me think Access Kenya has a way with customers - they are not selling the submarine fiber connectivity as yet but have clients connected to it and guess what, the quality of the AK link is much better:
AccessKenya:
C2811-Telecity#sh ip sl mo st 10
Round trip time (RTT) Index 10
Latest RTT: 227 ms
Latest operation start time: 09:59:06.155 GDT Thu Aug 20 2009
Latest operation return code: OK
RTT Values
Number Of RTT: 40
RTT Min/Avg/Max: 205/227/262 ms
Latency one-way time milliseconds
Number of one-way Samples: 40
Source to Destination one way Min/Avg/Max: 118/122/136 ms
Destination to Source one way Min/Avg/Max: 85/105/140 ms
Jitter time milliseconds
Number of Jitter Samples: 39
Source to Destination Jitter Min/Avg/Max: 1/4/13 ms
Destination to Source Jitter Min/Avg/Max: 2/12/36 ms
Packet Loss Values
Loss Source to Destination: 0 Loss Destination to Source: 0
Out Of Sequence: 0 Tail Drop: 0 Packet Late Arrival: 0
Voice Score Values
Calculated Planning Impairment Factor (ICPIF): 0
Mean Opinion Score (MOS): 0
Number of successes: 19
Number of failures: 0
Operation time to live: Forever
KDN:
C2811-Telecity#sh ip sl mo st 9
Round trip time (RTT) Index 9
Latest RTT: 232 ms
Latest operation start time: 09:13:06.184 GDT Thu Aug 20 2009
Latest operation return code: OK
RTT Values
Number Of RTT: 40
RTT Min/Avg/Max: 217/232/245 ms
Latency one-way time milliseconds
Number of one-way Samples: 40
Source to Destination one way Min/Avg/Max: 121/124/127 ms
Destination to Source one way Min/Avg/Max: 92/107/119 ms
Jitter time milliseconds
Number of Jitter Samples: 39
Source to Destination Jitter Min/Avg/Max: 1/2/5 ms
Destination to Source Jitter Min/Avg/Max: 1/10/24 ms
Packet Loss Values
Loss Source to Destination: 0 Loss Destination to Source: 0
Out Of Sequence: 0 Tail Drop: 0 Packet Late Arrival: 0
Voice Score Values
Calculated Planning Impairment Factor (ICPIF): 0
Mean Opinion Score (MOS): 0
Number of successes: 26
Number of failures: 0
Operation time to live: Forever
BTW- We - read Skunks! Really need also redefine the local objectives for an SLA to some level. Is the SLA meant to push for financial penalties on the Providers/ISP end to the customer or is it meant to challenge the Provider/ISP deliver better services to the customer? Of the 2, which should be our focus?
Both! When you go to a shop to buy an LG TV and insist on a warranty on the same? Simply answer. An SLA is a warranty that you will _deliver_ to the client, so that you do not promise what you can't deliver. It's not for financial penalties - but that only comes as a consequence of you not delivering. Why would I sign a contract without an SLA? What the hell is the contract for? Think about it:-)
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ "If you have nothing good to say about someone, just shut up!." -- Lucky Dube
-- People should know when they are conquered.
Washington has raised very important points here about services SLA's and contracts. Though it maybe a KDN management decision and something that Dan from tech support may not be in a position to respond on, *it is imperative that internet customers know and enforce SLAs and how contracts are tied to subject to terms and conditions of an SLA else a deal smells like a ponzi scheme.* **** My comment is nothing against KDN nor any Service provider and no one should take this wrongly. Riyaz commented earlier that Seacom connection links have already been down about a few times. This much down time in just a few weeks?WTH!! *Wherever you look, from mobile to wimax data networks there are issues on a daily basis literally and now on fiber.* *Murphy has a big family and loves kenyan networks :-)* And please know the day a nuclear reactor is commissioned here ( murphy will most likely sabotage the coolers) I will be first one heading out at least 1000miles away from such a site..... hehehe, haraka sana, maybe buy an altezza the same day. LOL! :-)
Info on Waranties, SLA's, Quality of services and consumer rights and responsibilities all available at http://www.cck.go.ke/consumer_fact_sheets/ On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 6:04 PM, nyarotho kennedy <kenyarotho@gmail.com>wrote:
Anybody from CCK to read the Riot Act here?
On 8/25/09, dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote:
Hi Wash,
I will in no way change your stand. Thanks for the info.
Rgds, Dan
Sent from my BlackBerry(R) smartphone from Zain Kenya
-----Original Message----- From: Odhiambo ワシントン <odhiambo@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 17:06:06 To: <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> Cc: Skunkworks forum<skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] SLA on Submarine Fiber
On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 7:42 AM, <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote:
Wash,
The fact is: KDN does NOT provide an SLA for the submarine fiber just yet.
Reason: The details of such an SLA are being worked on. We have some considerations to make with such an SLA. The ever prolonged outage due to faults on the seaside is but a major contributor.
KDN Purposes to put in place a meaningful SLA especially once we have redundancy on the Undersea cable through TEAMS besides KDN's redundant terrestrial fiber to Msa via Garissa. This loose arrangement in regard to the SLA is a point that KDN ensures a customer well understands before-hand. From your explanation, it appears the SLA was discussed as an afterthought between you and an Account Manager after you had your connection activated.
Dan, let me get this clear. I was paying US$ 1,189/mo for a 256/256kbps with KDN on Satellite since November last year and KDN never gave any SLA. I raised this issue with the Account Manager even before signing up for the submarine connection. So let me ask: Does a customer always have to request for the SLA or does it form part of the contract that KDN makes with the client? In my case, I raised the issue of the SLA before hand, given that I di dnot get any with the previous service. I was rather shocked when I was told there will be no SLA. Forget your argument that KDN is still working on redundancy, which I feel is mere PR. I just think you should not be selling to me something I consider so critical to business operations without SLA. It makes me think again and ask: Why is KDN in a hurry to sell a service that it know it can't guarantee as yet? Your position makes me think Access Kenya has a way with customers - they are not selling the submarine fiber connectivity as yet but have clients connected to it and guess what, the quality of the AK link is much better:
AccessKenya:
C2811-Telecity#sh ip sl mo st 10
Round trip time (RTT) Index 10
Latest RTT: 227 ms
Latest operation start time: 09:59:06.155 GDT Thu Aug 20 2009
Latest operation return code: OK
RTT Values
Number Of RTT: 40
RTT Min/Avg/Max: 205/227/262 ms
Latency one-way time milliseconds
Number of one-way Samples: 40
Source to Destination one way Min/Avg/Max: 118/122/136 ms
Destination to Source one way Min/Avg/Max: 85/105/140 ms
Jitter time milliseconds
Number of Jitter Samples: 39
Source to Destination Jitter Min/Avg/Max: 1/4/13 ms
Destination to Source Jitter Min/Avg/Max: 2/12/36 ms
Packet Loss Values
Loss Source to Destination: 0 Loss Destination to Source: 0
Out Of Sequence: 0 Tail Drop: 0 Packet Late Arrival: 0
Voice Score Values
Calculated Planning Impairment Factor (ICPIF): 0
Mean Opinion Score (MOS): 0
Number of successes: 19
Number of failures: 0
Operation time to live: Forever
KDN:
C2811-Telecity#sh ip sl mo st 9
Round trip time (RTT) Index 9
Latest RTT: 232 ms
Latest operation start time: 09:13:06.184 GDT Thu Aug 20 2009
Latest operation return code: OK
RTT Values
Number Of RTT: 40
RTT Min/Avg/Max: 217/232/245 ms
Latency one-way time milliseconds
Number of one-way Samples: 40
Source to Destination one way Min/Avg/Max: 121/124/127 ms
Destination to Source one way Min/Avg/Max: 92/107/119 ms
Jitter time milliseconds
Number of Jitter Samples: 39
Source to Destination Jitter Min/Avg/Max: 1/2/5 ms
Destination to Source Jitter Min/Avg/Max: 1/10/24 ms
Packet Loss Values
Loss Source to Destination: 0 Loss Destination to Source: 0
Out Of Sequence: 0 Tail Drop: 0 Packet Late Arrival: 0
Voice Score Values
Calculated Planning Impairment Factor (ICPIF): 0
Mean Opinion Score (MOS): 0
Number of successes: 26
Number of failures: 0
Operation time to live: Forever
BTW- We - read Skunks! Really need also redefine the local objectives
for
an SLA to some level. Is the SLA meant to push for financial penalties on the Providers/ISP end to the customer or is it meant to challenge the Provider/ISP deliver better services to the customer? Of the 2, which should be our focus?
Both! When you go to a shop to buy an LG TV and insist on a warranty on the same? Simply answer. An SLA is a warranty that you will _deliver_ to the client, so that you do not promise what you can't deliver. It's not for financial penalties - but that only comes as a consequence of you not delivering. Why would I sign a contract without an SLA? What the hell is the contract for? Think about it:-)
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ "If you have nothing good to say about someone, just shut up!." -- Lucky Dube
-- People should know when they are conquered. _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general
participants (7)
-
aki -
dan.kwach＠kdn.co.ke -
Kathu -
nyarotho kennedy -
Odhiambo ワシントン -
Riyaz Bachani -
Solomon Mburu