OSPF vs ISIS - Which do you prefer and why
Network Admins, I Once went for an interview as a Core Network Admin in one of the major telcos in KE and asked which protocol i preferred and why. Am sure am not the only one and won't stop here. Though i gave my own reasons, a panelist insisted ISIS is superior and gave his reasons by grinning but not explaining to an interviewee [me of course]. Sadly i didn't get the job, probably because *i asked him* WHY he think isis is superior that OSPF :( I came across this URL http://bit.ly/2bsqJCA when scrolling the web today, one year later - i still wanted to find out if am the only one who thinks its a matter of choice btwn the 2. Although there isn't distinct 1:1 argument, its good we discuss it here and figure out why one prefer one over the other - *consider a FLAT huge network.* Kind Regards, Wilson./
Greetings Wilson, While I haven't worked with IS-IS before but the only disadvantage I've encountered with OSPF is that it is resource intensive on the router it is running on which is why only one instance runs on any PE & P device on an ISP network. OSPF is pretty good in handling the core network routing while BGP & EGP handle the last-mile routing between PE & CE devices. BGP & EGP can run on top of OSPF. Warm regards, Michael. On 23 August 2016 at 15:34, Thuo Wilson via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Network Admins,
I Once went for an interview as a Core Network Admin in one of the major telcos in KE and asked which protocol i preferred and why.
Am sure am not the only one and won't stop here.
Though i gave my own reasons, a panelist insisted ISIS is superior and gave his reasons by grinning but not explaining to an interviewee [me of course]. Sadly i didn't get the job, probably because *i asked him* WHY he think isis is superior that OSPF :(
I came across this URL http://bit.ly/2bsqJCA when scrolling the web today, one year later - i still wanted to find out if am the only one who thinks its a matter of choice btwn the 2. Although there isn't distinct 1:1 argument, its good we discuss it here and figure out why one prefer one over the other - *consider a FLAT huge network.*
Kind Regards, Wilson./
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Kind Regards, Wilson./ On 23 August 2016 at 16:02, Michael Bullut <main@kipsang.com> wrote:
Greetings Wilson, While I haven't worked with IS-IS before but the only disadvantage I've encountered with OSPF is that it is resource intensive on the router it is running on which is why only one instance runs on any PE & P device on an ISP network. OSPF is pretty good in handling the core network routing while BGP & EGP handle the last-mile routing between PE & CE devices. BGP & EGP can run on top of OSPF.
Warm regards,
Michael.
Though, below is also true, we dont run a cisco2800 on core network.
Overload Mechanism – IS-IS has the ability to set the Overload (OL) bit in its LSAs. This results in other routers in that area treating this router as a leaf router in their shortest path trees, which means that its only used for reaching the directly connected interfaces and is never placed on the transit path to reach other routers. So does this happen any more? No, it doesnt. This feature was required in the jurassic age when routers came with severely constrained memory, CPU power and the original intention of the OL mechanism is now mostly irrelevant. Most core routers today have enough memory and CPU that they will not get inundated by the IS-IS routes in any sane network design.
On 23 August 2016 at 15:34, Thuo Wilson via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Network Admins,
I Once went for an interview as a Core Network Admin in one of the major telcos in KE and asked which protocol i preferred and why.
Am sure am not the only one and won't stop here.
Though i gave my own reasons, a panelist insisted ISIS is superior and gave his reasons by grinning but not explaining to an interviewee [me of course]. Sadly i didn't get the job, probably because *i asked him* WHY he think isis is superior that OSPF :(
I came across this URL http://bit.ly/2bsqJCA when scrolling the web today, one year later - i still wanted to find out if am the only one who thinks its a matter of choice btwn the 2. Although there isn't distinct 1:1 argument, its good we discuss it here and figure out why one prefer one over the other - *consider a FLAT huge network.*
Kind Regards, Wilson./
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Hey Thuo, What routers have you worked with? On the provider's end *(POP side),* I've worked with: 1. *Cisco ASR 1006. * 2. *Cisco 7200.* 3. *Cisco 3600.* *(In a rare instance)* On the client's end, I've worked with: 1. *Cisco 2800 & 2900.* *(Mostly used for redundancy setups)* 2. *Cisco 1800 & 1900.* *(Mostly used for single last-mile circuits)* 3. *Cisco 800.* *(Worst CE device I've ever worked with)* Warm regards, Michael. On 23 August 2016 at 16:10, Thuo Wilson <lixton@gmail.com> wrote:
Kind Regards, Wilson./
On 23 August 2016 at 16:02, Michael Bullut <main@kipsang.com> wrote:
Greetings Wilson, While I haven't worked with IS-IS before but the only disadvantage I've encountered with OSPF is that it is resource intensive on the router it is running on which is why only one instance runs on any PE & P device on an ISP network. OSPF is pretty good in handling the core network routing while BGP & EGP handle the last-mile routing between PE & CE devices. BGP & EGP can run on top of OSPF.
Warm regards,
Michael.
Though, below is also true, we dont run a cisco2800 on core network.
Overload Mechanism – IS-IS has the ability to set the Overload (OL) bit in its LSAs. This results in other routers in that area treating this router as a leaf router in their shortest path trees, which means that its only used for reaching the directly connected interfaces and is never placed on the transit path to reach other routers. So does this happen any more? No, it doesnt. This feature was required in the jurassic age when routers came with severely constrained memory, CPU power and the original intention of the OL mechanism is now mostly irrelevant. Most core routers today have enough memory and CPU that they will not get inundated by the IS-IS routes in any sane network design.
On 23 August 2016 at 15:34, Thuo Wilson via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Network Admins,
I Once went for an interview as a Core Network Admin in one of the major telcos in KE and asked which protocol i preferred and why.
Am sure am not the only one and won't stop here.
Though i gave my own reasons, a panelist insisted ISIS is superior and gave his reasons by grinning but not explaining to an interviewee [me of course]. Sadly i didn't get the job, probably because *i asked him* WHY he think isis is superior that OSPF :(
I came across this URL http://bit.ly/2bsqJCA when scrolling the web today, one year later - i still wanted to find out if am the only one who thinks its a matter of choice btwn the 2. Although there isn't distinct 1:1 argument, its good we discuss it here and figure out why one prefer one over the other - *consider a FLAT huge network.*
Kind Regards, Wilson./
_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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Hi Both, Both are IGP and use distance vector. The main difference between that OSPF is dependent on IP and ISIS is connectionless. LSA's and other stuff aside. Both are used on core SP network to carry infrastructure and loopback prefixes period. Configuring IGP's to carry customer prefixes, Internet prefixes, etc is what makes them bulky. In turn IGP will occupy CPU cycles trying to continuously converge where they don't need to. If you carry your infrastructure and loopbacks using an IGP, they converge faster, database is mostly stable and they use less CPU. Why OSPF over ISIS. In a multivendor environment you are more likely to find OSPF support than ISIS. For instance i would be curious to find out if the router board vendors have ISIS support. In a single or dual vendor environment you are likely to have support for ISIS. ISIS is relatively easier to deploy/support for most people, hence the reason why large single/dual vendor networks prefer it over OSPF. My 2 cents. Michuki. On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 4:45 PM, Michael Bullut via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Hey Thuo,
What routers have you worked with?
On the provider's end *(POP side),* I've worked with:
1. *Cisco ASR 1006. * 2. *Cisco 7200.* 3. *Cisco 3600.* *(In a rare instance)*
On the client's end, I've worked with:
1. *Cisco 2800 & 2900.* *(Mostly used for redundancy setups)* 2. *Cisco 1800 & 1900.* *(Mostly used for single last-mile circuits)* 3. *Cisco 800.* *(Worst CE device I've ever worked with)*
Warm regards,
Michael.
On 23 August 2016 at 16:10, Thuo Wilson <lixton@gmail.com> wrote:
Kind Regards, Wilson./
On 23 August 2016 at 16:02, Michael Bullut <main@kipsang.com> wrote:
Greetings Wilson, While I haven't worked with IS-IS before but the only disadvantage I've encountered with OSPF is that it is resource intensive on the router it is running on which is why only one instance runs on any PE & P device on an ISP network. OSPF is pretty good in handling the core network routing while BGP & EGP handle the last-mile routing between PE & CE devices. BGP & EGP can run on top of OSPF.
Warm regards,
Michael.
Though, below is also true, we dont run a cisco2800 on core network.
Overload Mechanism – IS-IS has the ability to set the Overload (OL) bit in its LSAs. This results in other routers in that area treating this router as a leaf router in their shortest path trees, which means that its only used for reaching the directly connected interfaces and is never placed on the transit path to reach other routers. So does this happen any more? No, it doesnt. This feature was required in the jurassic age when routers came with severely constrained memory, CPU power and the original intention of the OL mechanism is now mostly irrelevant. Most core routers today have enough memory and CPU that they will not get inundated by the IS-IS routes in any sane network design.
On 23 August 2016 at 15:34, Thuo Wilson via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Network Admins,
I Once went for an interview as a Core Network Admin in one of the major telcos in KE and asked which protocol i preferred and why.
Am sure am not the only one and won't stop here.
Though i gave my own reasons, a panelist insisted ISIS is superior and gave his reasons by grinning but not explaining to an interviewee [me of course]. Sadly i didn't get the job, probably because *i asked him* WHY he think isis is superior that OSPF :(
I came across this URL http://bit.ly/2bsqJCA when scrolling the web today, one year later - i still wanted to find out if am the only one who thinks its a matter of choice btwn the 2. Although there isn't distinct 1:1 argument, its good we discuss it here and figure out why one prefer one over the other - *consider a FLAT huge network.*
Kind Regards, Wilson./
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This topic is now closed. I think it sould have gone to the EaNOG list :-) Sababu it sounded like me listening to a math teacher after a lunch of Ugali na mandondo! On 23 August 2016 at 21:56, Michuki Mwangi via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Hi Both,
Both are IGP and use distance vector. The main difference between that OSPF is dependent on IP and ISIS is connectionless. LSA's and other stuff aside.
Both are used on core SP network to carry infrastructure and loopback prefixes period. Configuring IGP's to carry customer prefixes, Internet prefixes, etc is what makes them bulky. In turn IGP will occupy CPU cycles trying to continuously converge where they don't need to. If you carry your infrastructure and loopbacks using an IGP, they converge faster, database is mostly stable and they use less CPU.
Why OSPF over ISIS. In a multivendor environment you are more likely to find OSPF support than ISIS. For instance i would be curious to find out if the router board vendors have ISIS support. In a single or dual vendor environment you are likely to have support for ISIS. ISIS is relatively easier to deploy/support for most people, hence the reason why large single/dual vendor networks prefer it over OSPF.
My 2 cents.
Michuki.
On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 4:45 PM, Michael Bullut via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Hey Thuo,
What routers have you worked with?
On the provider's end *(POP side),* I've worked with:
1. *Cisco ASR 1006. * 2. *Cisco 7200.* 3. *Cisco 3600.* *(In a rare instance)*
On the client's end, I've worked with:
1. *Cisco 2800 & 2900.* *(Mostly used for redundancy setups)* 2. *Cisco 1800 & 1900.* *(Mostly used for single last-mile circuits)* 3. *Cisco 800.* *(Worst CE device I've ever worked with)*
Warm regards,
Michael.
On 23 August 2016 at 16:10, Thuo Wilson <lixton@gmail.com> wrote:
Kind Regards, Wilson./
On 23 August 2016 at 16:02, Michael Bullut <main@kipsang.com> wrote:
Greetings Wilson, While I haven't worked with IS-IS before but the only disadvantage I've encountered with OSPF is that it is resource intensive on the router it is running on which is why only one instance runs on any PE & P device on an ISP network. OSPF is pretty good in handling the core network routing while BGP & EGP handle the last-mile routing between PE & CE devices. BGP & EGP can run on top of OSPF.
Warm regards,
Michael.
Though, below is also true, we dont run a cisco2800 on core network.
Overload Mechanism – IS-IS has the ability to set the Overload (OL) bit in its LSAs. This results in other routers in that area treating this router as a leaf router in their shortest path trees, which means that its only used for reaching the directly connected interfaces and is never placed on the transit path to reach other routers. So does this happen any more? No, it doesnt. This feature was required in the jurassic age when routers came with severely constrained memory, CPU power and the original intention of the OL mechanism is now mostly irrelevant. Most core routers today have enough memory and CPU that they will not get inundated by the IS-IS routes in any sane network design.
On 23 August 2016 at 15:34, Thuo Wilson via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Network Admins,
I Once went for an interview as a Core Network Admin in one of the major telcos in KE and asked which protocol i preferred and why.
Am sure am not the only one and won't stop here.
Though i gave my own reasons, a panelist insisted ISIS is superior and gave his reasons by grinning but not explaining to an interviewee [me of course]. Sadly i didn't get the job, probably because *i asked him* WHY he think isis is superior that OSPF :(
I came across this URL http://bit.ly/2bsqJCA when scrolling the web today, one year later - i still wanted to find out if am the only one who thinks its a matter of choice btwn the 2. Although there isn't distinct 1:1 argument, its good we discuss it here and figure out why one prefer one over the other - *consider a FLAT huge network.*
Kind Regards, Wilson./
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-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft."
IS-IS is better than OSPF for the mobile and internet service provider industry. Only that no one is using its main advantages in any ISP in Kenya. Hence the reason we are having this discussion. The topic should remain closed therefore. On Tuesday, August 23, 2016, Odhiambo Washington via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
This topic is now closed. I think it sould have gone to the EaNOG list :-)
Sababu it sounded like me listening to a math teacher after a lunch of Ugali na mandondo!
On 23 August 2016 at 21:56, Michuki Mwangi via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke');>> wrote:
Hi Both,
Both are IGP and use distance vector. The main difference between that OSPF is dependent on IP and ISIS is connectionless. LSA's and other stuff aside.
Both are used on core SP network to carry infrastructure and loopback prefixes period. Configuring IGP's to carry customer prefixes, Internet prefixes, etc is what makes them bulky. In turn IGP will occupy CPU cycles trying to continuously converge where they don't need to. If you carry your infrastructure and loopbacks using an IGP, they converge faster, database is mostly stable and they use less CPU.
Why OSPF over ISIS. In a multivendor environment you are more likely to find OSPF support than ISIS. For instance i would be curious to find out if the router board vendors have ISIS support. In a single or dual vendor environment you are likely to have support for ISIS. ISIS is relatively easier to deploy/support for most people, hence the reason why large single/dual vendor networks prefer it over OSPF.
My 2 cents.
Michuki.
On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 4:45 PM, Michael Bullut via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke');>> wrote:
Hey Thuo,
What routers have you worked with?
On the provider's end *(POP side),* I've worked with:
1. *Cisco ASR 1006. * 2. *Cisco 7200.* 3. *Cisco 3600.* *(In a rare instance)*
On the client's end, I've worked with:
1. *Cisco 2800 & 2900.* *(Mostly used for redundancy setups)* 2. *Cisco 1800 & 1900.* *(Mostly used for single last-mile circuits)* 3. *Cisco 800.* *(Worst CE device I've ever worked with)*
Warm regards,
Michael.
On 23 August 2016 at 16:10, Thuo Wilson <lixton@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','lixton@gmail.com');>> wrote:
Kind Regards, Wilson./
On 23 August 2016 at 16:02, Michael Bullut <main@kipsang.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','main@kipsang.com');>> wrote:
Greetings Wilson, While I haven't worked with IS-IS before but the only disadvantage I've encountered with OSPF is that it is resource intensive on the router it is running on which is why only one instance runs on any PE & P device on an ISP network. OSPF is pretty good in handling the core network routing while BGP & EGP handle the last-mile routing between PE & CE devices. BGP & EGP can run on top of OSPF.
Warm regards,
Michael.
Though, below is also true, we dont run a cisco2800 on core network.
Overload Mechanism – IS-IS has the ability to set the Overload (OL) bit in its LSAs. This results in other routers in that area treating this router as a leaf router in their shortest path trees, which means that its only used for reaching the directly connected interfaces and is never placed on the transit path to reach other routers. So does this happen any more? No, it doesnt. This feature was required in the jurassic age when routers came with severely constrained memory, CPU power and the original intention of the OL mechanism is now mostly irrelevant. Most core routers today have enough memory and CPU that they will not get inundated by the IS-IS routes in any sane network design.
On 23 August 2016 at 15:34, Thuo Wilson via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke');>> wrote:
Network Admins,
I Once went for an interview as a Core Network Admin in one of the major telcos in KE and asked which protocol i preferred and why.
Am sure am not the only one and won't stop here.
Though i gave my own reasons, a panelist insisted ISIS is superior and gave his reasons by grinning but not explaining to an interviewee [me of course]. Sadly i didn't get the job, probably because *i asked him* WHY he think isis is superior that OSPF :(
I came across this URL http://bit.ly/2bsqJCA when scrolling the web today, one year later - i still wanted to find out if am the only one who thinks its a matter of choice btwn the 2. Although there isn't distinct 1:1 argument, its good we discuss it here and figure out why one prefer one over the other - *consider a FLAT huge network.*
Kind Regards, Wilson./
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-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft."
-- Best Regards, Stephen Munguti. +254720425104
Let's keep the topic running. Any reason why the ISPs aren't using it? Maybe we can ask the engineers as they are lurking in here. On 24 August 2016 at 07:05, Stephen Munguti <kamitu.sm@gmail.com> wrote:
IS-IS is better than OSPF for the mobile and internet service provider industry. Only that no one is using its main advantages in any ISP in Kenya. Hence the reason we are having this discussion.
The topic should remain closed therefore.
On Tuesday, August 23, 2016, Odhiambo Washington via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
This topic is now closed. I think it sould have gone to the EaNOG list :-)
Sababu it sounded like me listening to a math teacher after a lunch of Ugali na mandondo!
On 23 August 2016 at 21:56, Michuki Mwangi via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Hi Both,
Both are IGP and use distance vector. The main difference between that OSPF is dependent on IP and ISIS is connectionless. LSA's and other stuff aside.
Both are used on core SP network to carry infrastructure and loopback prefixes period. Configuring IGP's to carry customer prefixes, Internet prefixes, etc is what makes them bulky. In turn IGP will occupy CPU cycles trying to continuously converge where they don't need to. If you carry your infrastructure and loopbacks using an IGP, they converge faster, database is mostly stable and they use less CPU.
Why OSPF over ISIS. In a multivendor environment you are more likely to find OSPF support than ISIS. For instance i would be curious to find out if the router board vendors have ISIS support. In a single or dual vendor environment you are likely to have support for ISIS. ISIS is relatively easier to deploy/support for most people, hence the reason why large single/dual vendor networks prefer it over OSPF.
My 2 cents.
Michuki.
On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 4:45 PM, Michael Bullut via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Hey Thuo,
What routers have you worked with?
On the provider's end *(POP side),* I've worked with:
1. *Cisco ASR 1006. * 2. *Cisco 7200.* 3. *Cisco 3600.* *(In a rare instance)*
On the client's end, I've worked with:
1. *Cisco 2800 & 2900.* *(Mostly used for redundancy setups)* 2. *Cisco 1800 & 1900.* *(Mostly used for single last-mile circuits)* 3. *Cisco 800.* *(Worst CE device I've ever worked with)*
Warm regards,
Michael.
On 23 August 2016 at 16:10, Thuo Wilson <lixton@gmail.com> wrote:
Kind Regards, Wilson./
On 23 August 2016 at 16:02, Michael Bullut <main@kipsang.com> wrote:
Greetings Wilson, While I haven't worked with IS-IS before but the only disadvantage I've encountered with OSPF is that it is resource intensive on the router it is running on which is why only one instance runs on any PE & P device on an ISP network. OSPF is pretty good in handling the core network routing while BGP & EGP handle the last-mile routing between PE & CE devices. BGP & EGP can run on top of OSPF.
Warm regards,
Michael.
Though, below is also true, we dont run a cisco2800 on core network.
Overload Mechanism – IS-IS has the ability to set the Overload (OL) bit in its LSAs. This results in other routers in that area treating this router as a leaf router in their shortest path trees, which means that its only used for reaching the directly connected interfaces and is never placed on the transit path to reach other routers. So does this happen any more? No, it doesnt. This feature was required in the jurassic age when routers came with severely constrained memory, CPU power and the original intention of the OL mechanism is now mostly irrelevant. Most core routers today have enough memory and CPU that they will not get inundated by the IS-IS routes in any sane network design.
On 23 August 2016 at 15:34, Thuo Wilson via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
> Network Admins, > > I Once went for an interview as a Core Network Admin in one of the > major telcos in KE and asked which protocol i preferred and why. > > Am sure am not the only one and won't stop here. > > Though i gave my own reasons, a panelist insisted ISIS is superior > and gave his reasons by grinning but not explaining to an interviewee [me > of course]. Sadly i didn't get the job, probably because *i asked > him* WHY he think isis is superior that OSPF :( > > I came across this URL http://bit.ly/2bsqJCA when scrolling the web > today, one year later - i still wanted to find out if am the only one who > thinks its a matter of choice btwn the 2. Although there isn't distinct 1:1 > argument, its good we discuss it here and figure out why one prefer one > over the other - *consider a FLAT huge network.* > > > Kind Regards, > Wilson./ > > _______________________________________________ > skunkworks mailing list > skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > ------------ > List info, subscribe/unsubscribe > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
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-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft."
--
Best Regards, Stephen Munguti.
+254720425104
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft."
I can probably add my 2 cents,
From an ISP point I would consider it as a Network Management Policy on what to use with considerations of hardware chosen(Cisco or not to Cisco :) )
From an a Systems Integrator/Net admin working on a WAN implementation with redundant PDNO links used on a the WAN, then we I would go for OSPF to allow for use of multi-vendor Layer 3 devices.
R D On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 9:55 AM, Odhiambo Washington via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Let's keep the topic running. Any reason why the ISPs aren't using it? Maybe we can ask the engineers as they are lurking in here.
On 24 August 2016 at 07:05, Stephen Munguti <kamitu.sm@gmail.com> wrote:
IS-IS is better than OSPF for the mobile and internet service provider industry. Only that no one is using its main advantages in any ISP in Kenya. Hence the reason we are having this discussion.
The topic should remain closed therefore.
On Tuesday, August 23, 2016, Odhiambo Washington via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
This topic is now closed. I think it sould have gone to the EaNOG list :-)
Sababu it sounded like me listening to a math teacher after a lunch of Ugali na mandondo!
On 23 August 2016 at 21:56, Michuki Mwangi via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Hi Both,
Both are IGP and use distance vector. The main difference between that OSPF is dependent on IP and ISIS is connectionless. LSA's and other stuff aside.
Both are used on core SP network to carry infrastructure and loopback prefixes period. Configuring IGP's to carry customer prefixes, Internet prefixes, etc is what makes them bulky. In turn IGP will occupy CPU cycles trying to continuously converge where they don't need to. If you carry your infrastructure and loopbacks using an IGP, they converge faster, database is mostly stable and they use less CPU.
Why OSPF over ISIS. In a multivendor environment you are more likely to find OSPF support than ISIS. For instance i would be curious to find out if the router board vendors have ISIS support. In a single or dual vendor environment you are likely to have support for ISIS. ISIS is relatively easier to deploy/support for most people, hence the reason why large single/dual vendor networks prefer it over OSPF.
My 2 cents.
Michuki.
On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 4:45 PM, Michael Bullut via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Hey Thuo,
What routers have you worked with?
On the provider's end *(POP side),* I've worked with:
1. *Cisco ASR 1006. * 2. *Cisco 7200.* 3. *Cisco 3600.* *(In a rare instance)*
On the client's end, I've worked with:
1. *Cisco 2800 & 2900.* *(Mostly used for redundancy setups)* 2. *Cisco 1800 & 1900.* *(Mostly used for single last-mile circuits)* 3. *Cisco 800.* *(Worst CE device I've ever worked with)*
Warm regards,
Michael.
On 23 August 2016 at 16:10, Thuo Wilson <lixton@gmail.com> wrote:
Kind Regards, Wilson./
On 23 August 2016 at 16:02, Michael Bullut <main@kipsang.com> wrote:
> Greetings Wilson, > > While I haven't worked with IS-IS before but the only disadvantage > I've encountered with OSPF is that it is resource intensive on the router > it is running on which is why only one instance runs on any PE & P device > on an ISP network. OSPF is pretty good in handling the core network routing > while BGP & EGP handle the last-mile routing between PE & CE devices. BGP & > EGP can run on top of OSPF. > > Warm regards, > > Michael. > > Though, below is also true, we dont run a cisco2800 on core network.
Overload Mechanism – IS-IS has the ability to set the Overload (OL) bit in its LSAs. This results in other routers in that area treating this router as a leaf router in their shortest path trees, which means that its only used for reaching the directly connected interfaces and is never placed on the transit path to reach other routers. So does this happen any more? No, it doesnt. This feature was required in the jurassic age when routers came with severely constrained memory, CPU power and the original intention of the OL mechanism is now mostly irrelevant. Most core routers today have enough memory and CPU that they will not get inundated by the IS-IS routes in any sane network design.
> > On 23 August 2016 at 15:34, Thuo Wilson via skunkworks < > skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote: > >> Network Admins, >> >> I Once went for an interview as a Core Network Admin in one of the >> major telcos in KE and asked which protocol i preferred and why. >> >> Am sure am not the only one and won't stop here. >> >> Though i gave my own reasons, a panelist insisted ISIS is superior >> and gave his reasons by grinning but not explaining to an interviewee [me >> of course]. Sadly i didn't get the job, probably because *i asked >> him* WHY he think isis is superior that OSPF :( >> >> I came across this URL http://bit.ly/2bsqJCA when scrolling the >> web today, one year later - i still wanted to find out if am the only one >> who thinks its a matter of choice btwn the 2. Although there isn't distinct >> 1:1 argument, its good we discuss it here and figure out why one prefer one >> over the other - *consider a FLAT huge network.* >> >> >> Kind Regards, >> Wilson./ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> skunkworks mailing list >> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >> ------------ >> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >> ------------ >> >> Skunkworks Rules >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >> ------------ >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >> > >
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-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft."
--
Best Regards, Stephen Munguti.
+254720425104
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft."
_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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Hello Stephen, I would definitely like to learn what those advantages of IS-IS are over OSPF. Clearly it fails in a multi-vendor environment so am not sure how that makes it a plus. If there are other technical advantages - please list them. The primary one i know is that OSPF areas are necessary but in IS-IS one can actually have a flat L1/L2 topology and get away with it. If your IGP is doing more than that - am very curious to learn what you are using it for. And yes happy to take it to the EANOG list :). Regards, Michuki. On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 9:55 AM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:
Let's keep the topic running. Any reason why the ISPs aren't using it? Maybe we can ask the engineers as they are lurking in here.
On 24 August 2016 at 07:05, Stephen Munguti <kamitu.sm@gmail.com> wrote:
IS-IS is better than OSPF for the mobile and internet service provider industry. Only that no one is using its main advantages in any ISP in Kenya. Hence the reason we are having this discussion.
The topic should remain closed therefore.
On Tuesday, August 23, 2016, Odhiambo Washington via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
This topic is now closed. I think it sould have gone to the EaNOG list :-)
Sababu it sounded like me listening to a math teacher after a lunch of Ugali na mandondo!
On 23 August 2016 at 21:56, Michuki Mwangi via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Hi Both,
Both are IGP and use distance vector. The main difference between that OSPF is dependent on IP and ISIS is connectionless. LSA's and other stuff aside.
Both are used on core SP network to carry infrastructure and loopback prefixes period. Configuring IGP's to carry customer prefixes, Internet prefixes, etc is what makes them bulky. In turn IGP will occupy CPU cycles trying to continuously converge where they don't need to. If you carry your infrastructure and loopbacks using an IGP, they converge faster, database is mostly stable and they use less CPU.
Why OSPF over ISIS. In a multivendor environment you are more likely to find OSPF support than ISIS. For instance i would be curious to find out if the router board vendors have ISIS support. In a single or dual vendor environment you are likely to have support for ISIS. ISIS is relatively easier to deploy/support for most people, hence the reason why large single/dual vendor networks prefer it over OSPF.
My 2 cents.
Michuki.
On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 4:45 PM, Michael Bullut via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Hey Thuo,
What routers have you worked with?
On the provider's end *(POP side),* I've worked with:
1. *Cisco ASR 1006. * 2. *Cisco 7200.* 3. *Cisco 3600.* *(In a rare instance)*
On the client's end, I've worked with:
1. *Cisco 2800 & 2900.* *(Mostly used for redundancy setups)* 2. *Cisco 1800 & 1900.* *(Mostly used for single last-mile circuits)* 3. *Cisco 800.* *(Worst CE device I've ever worked with)*
Warm regards,
Michael.
On 23 August 2016 at 16:10, Thuo Wilson <lixton@gmail.com> wrote:
Kind Regards, Wilson./
On 23 August 2016 at 16:02, Michael Bullut <main@kipsang.com> wrote:
> Greetings Wilson, > > While I haven't worked with IS-IS before but the only disadvantage > I've encountered with OSPF is that it is resource intensive on the router > it is running on which is why only one instance runs on any PE & P device > on an ISP network. OSPF is pretty good in handling the core network routing > while BGP & EGP handle the last-mile routing between PE & CE devices. BGP & > EGP can run on top of OSPF. > > Warm regards, > > Michael. > > Though, below is also true, we dont run a cisco2800 on core network.
Overload Mechanism – IS-IS has the ability to set the Overload (OL) bit in its LSAs. This results in other routers in that area treating this router as a leaf router in their shortest path trees, which means that its only used for reaching the directly connected interfaces and is never placed on the transit path to reach other routers. So does this happen any more? No, it doesnt. This feature was required in the jurassic age when routers came with severely constrained memory, CPU power and the original intention of the OL mechanism is now mostly irrelevant. Most core routers today have enough memory and CPU that they will not get inundated by the IS-IS routes in any sane network design.
> > On 23 August 2016 at 15:34, Thuo Wilson via skunkworks < > skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote: > >> Network Admins, >> >> I Once went for an interview as a Core Network Admin in one of the >> major telcos in KE and asked which protocol i preferred and why. >> >> Am sure am not the only one and won't stop here. >> >> Though i gave my own reasons, a panelist insisted ISIS is superior >> and gave his reasons by grinning but not explaining to an interviewee [me >> of course]. Sadly i didn't get the job, probably because *i asked >> him* WHY he think isis is superior that OSPF :( >> >> I came across this URL http://bit.ly/2bsqJCA when scrolling the >> web today, one year later - i still wanted to find out if am the only one >> who thinks its a matter of choice btwn the 2. Although there isn't distinct >> 1:1 argument, its good we discuss it here and figure out why one prefer one >> over the other - *consider a FLAT huge network.* >> >> >> Kind Regards, >> Wilson./ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> skunkworks mailing list >> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >> ------------ >> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >> ------------ >> >> Skunkworks Rules >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >> ------------ >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >> > >
_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft."
--
Best Regards, Stephen Munguti.
+254720425104
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft."
On 24 August 2016 at 07:05, Stephen Munguti via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
IS-IS is better than OSPF for the mobile and internet service provider industry. Only that no one is using its main advantages in any ISP in Kenya. Hence the reason we are having this discussion.
The topic should remain closed therefore.
What are those reasons specifically? Kind Regards, Wilson./
Roflol, Admin wash, please let us learn Regards, Alex From: Odhiambo Washington via skunkworks [mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke] Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2016 10:09 PM To: Michuki Mwangi <michuki.mwangi@gmail.com>; Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] OSPF vs ISIS - Which do you prefer and why This topic is now closed. I think it sould have gone to the EaNOG list :-) Sababu it sounded like me listening to a math teacher after a lunch of Ugali na mandondo! On 23 August 2016 at 21:56, Michuki Mwangi via skunkworks <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> > wrote: Hi Both, Both are IGP and use distance vector. The main difference between that OSPF is dependent on IP and ISIS is connectionless. LSA's and other stuff aside. Both are used on core SP network to carry infrastructure and loopback prefixes period. Configuring IGP's to carry customer prefixes, Internet prefixes, etc is what makes them bulky. In turn IGP will occupy CPU cycles trying to continuously converge where they don't need to. If you carry your infrastructure and loopbacks using an IGP, they converge faster, database is mostly stable and they use less CPU. Why OSPF over ISIS. In a multivendor environment you are more likely to find OSPF support than ISIS. For instance i would be curious to find out if the router board vendors have ISIS support. In a single or dual vendor environment you are likely to have support for ISIS. ISIS is relatively easier to deploy/support for most people, hence the reason why large single/dual vendor networks prefer it over OSPF. My 2 cents. Michuki. On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 4:45 PM, Michael Bullut via skunkworks <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> > wrote: Hey Thuo, What routers have you worked with? On the provider's end (POP side), I've worked with: 1. Cisco ASR 1006. 2. Cisco 7200. 3. Cisco 3600. (In a rare instance) On the client's end, I've worked with: 1. Cisco 2800 & 2900. (Mostly used for redundancy setups) 2. Cisco 1800 & 1900. (Mostly used for single last-mile circuits) 3. Cisco 800. (Worst CE device I've ever worked with) Warm regards, Michael. On 23 August 2016 at 16:10, Thuo Wilson <lixton@gmail.com <mailto:lixton@gmail.com> > wrote: Kind Regards, Wilson./ On 23 August 2016 at 16:02, Michael Bullut <main@kipsang.com <mailto:main@kipsang.com> > wrote: Greetings Wilson, While I haven't worked with IS-IS before but the only disadvantage I've encountered with OSPF is that it is resource intensive on the router it is running on which is why only one instance runs on any PE & P device on an ISP network. OSPF is pretty good in handling the core network routing while BGP & EGP handle the last-mile routing between PE & CE devices. BGP & EGP can run on top of OSPF. Warm regards, Michael. Though, below is also true, we dont run a cisco2800 on core network. Overload Mechanism – IS-IS has the ability to set the Overload (OL) bit in its LSAs. This results in other routers in that area treating this router as a leaf router in their shortest path trees, which means that its only used for reaching the directly connected interfaces and is never placed on the transit path to reach other routers. So does this happen any more? No, it doesnt. This feature was required in the jurassic age when routers came with severely constrained memory, CPU power and the original intention of the OL mechanism is now mostly irrelevant. Most core routers today have enough memory and CPU that they will not get inundated by the IS-IS routes in any sane network design. On 23 August 2016 at 15:34, Thuo Wilson via skunkworks <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> > wrote: Network Admins, I Once went for an interview as a Core Network Admin in one of the major telcos in KE and asked which protocol i preferred and why. Am sure am not the only one and won't stop here. Though i gave my own reasons, a panelist insisted ISIS is superior and gave his reasons by grinning but not explaining to an interviewee [me of course]. Sadly i didn't get the job, probably because i asked him WHY he think isis is superior that OSPF :( I came across this URL http://bit.ly/2bsqJCA when scrolling the web today, one year later - i still wanted to find out if am the only one who thinks its a matter of choice btwn the 2. Although there isn't distinct 1:1 argument, its good we discuss it here and figure out why one prefer one over the other - consider a FLAT huge network. Kind Regards, Wilson./ _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24 <http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94> &t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24 <http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94> &t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24 <http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94> &t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft."
In other words, ISIS is no superior. Or are we comparing mangoes and oranges @Wash, bona unaweka kufuri/li? Kind Regards, Wilson./ On 24 August 2016 at 12:39, Alex Watila via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Roflol,
Admin wash, please let us learn
Regards,
Alex
*From:* Odhiambo Washington via skunkworks [mailto:skunkworks@lists.my. co.ke] *Sent:* Tuesday, August 23, 2016 10:09 PM *To:* Michuki Mwangi <michuki.mwangi@gmail.com>; Skunkworks Mailing List < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] OSPF vs ISIS - Which do you prefer and why
This topic is now closed. I think it sould have gone to the EaNOG list :-)
Sababu it sounded like me listening to a math teacher after a lunch of Ugali na mandondo!
On 23 August 2016 at 21:56, Michuki Mwangi via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Hi Both,
Both are IGP and use distance vector. The main difference between that OSPF is dependent on IP and ISIS is connectionless. LSA's and other stuff aside.
Both are used on core SP network to carry infrastructure and loopback prefixes period. Configuring IGP's to carry customer prefixes, Internet prefixes, etc is what makes them bulky. In turn IGP will occupy CPU cycles trying to continuously converge where they don't need to. If you carry your infrastructure and loopbacks using an IGP, they converge faster, database is mostly stable and they use less CPU.
Why OSPF over ISIS. In a multivendor environment you are more likely to find OSPF support than ISIS. For instance i would be curious to find out if the router board vendors have ISIS support. In a single or dual vendor environment you are likely to have support for ISIS. ISIS is relatively easier to deploy/support for most people, hence the reason why large single/dual vendor networks prefer it over OSPF.
My 2 cents.
Michuki.
On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 4:45 PM, Michael Bullut via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Hey Thuo,
What routers have you worked with?
On the provider's end *(POP side),* I've worked with:
1. *Cisco ASR 1006.* 2. *Cisco 7200.* 3. *Cisco 3600.* *(In a rare instance)*
On the client's end, I've worked with:
1. *Cisco 2800 & 2900.* *(Mostly used for redundancy setups)* 2. *Cisco 1800 & 1900.* *(Mostly used for single last-mile circuits)* 3. *Cisco 800.* *(Worst CE device I've ever worked with)*
Warm regards,
Michael.
On 23 August 2016 at 16:10, Thuo Wilson <lixton@gmail.com> wrote:
Kind Regards,
Wilson./
On 23 August 2016 at 16:02, Michael Bullut <main@kipsang.com> wrote:
Greetings Wilson,
While I haven't worked with IS-IS before but the only disadvantage I've encountered with OSPF is that it is resource intensive on the router it is running on which is why only one instance runs on any PE & P device on an ISP network. OSPF is pretty good in handling the core network routing while BGP & EGP handle the last-mile routing between PE & CE devices. BGP & EGP can run on top of OSPF.
Warm regards,
Michael.
Though, below is also true, we dont run a cisco2800 on core network.
Overload Mechanism – IS-IS has the ability to set the Overload (OL) bit in its LSAs. This results in other routers in that area treating this router as a leaf router in their shortest path trees, which means that its only used for reaching the directly connected interfaces and is never placed on the transit path to reach other routers. So does this happen any more? No, it doesnt. This feature was required in the jurassic age when routers came with severely constrained memory, CPU power and the original intention of the OL mechanism is now mostly irrelevant. Most core routers today have enough memory and CPU that they will not get inundated by the IS-IS routes in any sane network design.
On 23 August 2016 at 15:34, Thuo Wilson via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Network Admins,
I Once went for an interview as a Core Network Admin in one of the major telcos in KE and asked which protocol i preferred and why.
Am sure am not the only one and won't stop here.
Though i gave my own reasons, a panelist insisted ISIS is superior and gave his reasons by grinning but not explaining to an interviewee [me of course]. Sadly i didn't get the job, probably because *i asked him* WHY he think isis is superior that OSPF :(
I came across this URL http://bit.ly/2bsqJCA when scrolling the web today, one year later - i still wanted to find out if am the only one who thinks its a matter of choice btwn the 2. Although there isn't distinct 1:1 argument, its good we discuss it here and figure out why one prefer one over the other - *consider a FLAT huge network.*
Kind Regards,
Wilson./
_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
--
Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft."
_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
@Thuo, I was just joking from the way I was floating... like many others here I believe. I hope Alvin will start selling you guys IS-IS! On 24 August 2016 at 14:54, Thuo Wilson <lixton@gmail.com> wrote:
In other words, ISIS is no superior. Or are we comparing mangoes and oranges
@Wash, bona unaweka kufuri/li?
Kind Regards, Wilson./
On 24 August 2016 at 12:39, Alex Watila via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Roflol,
Admin wash, please let us learn
Regards,
Alex
*From:* Odhiambo Washington via skunkworks [mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co .ke] *Sent:* Tuesday, August 23, 2016 10:09 PM *To:* Michuki Mwangi <michuki.mwangi@gmail.com>; Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] OSPF vs ISIS - Which do you prefer and why
This topic is now closed. I think it sould have gone to the EaNOG list :-)
Sababu it sounded like me listening to a math teacher after a lunch of Ugali na mandondo!
On 23 August 2016 at 21:56, Michuki Mwangi via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Hi Both,
Both are IGP and use distance vector. The main difference between that OSPF is dependent on IP and ISIS is connectionless. LSA's and other stuff aside.
Both are used on core SP network to carry infrastructure and loopback prefixes period. Configuring IGP's to carry customer prefixes, Internet prefixes, etc is what makes them bulky. In turn IGP will occupy CPU cycles trying to continuously converge where they don't need to. If you carry your infrastructure and loopbacks using an IGP, they converge faster, database is mostly stable and they use less CPU.
Why OSPF over ISIS. In a multivendor environment you are more likely to find OSPF support than ISIS. For instance i would be curious to find out if the router board vendors have ISIS support. In a single or dual vendor environment you are likely to have support for ISIS. ISIS is relatively easier to deploy/support for most people, hence the reason why large single/dual vendor networks prefer it over OSPF.
My 2 cents.
Michuki.
On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 4:45 PM, Michael Bullut via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Hey Thuo,
What routers have you worked with?
On the provider's end *(POP side),* I've worked with:
1. *Cisco ASR 1006.* 2. *Cisco 7200.* 3. *Cisco 3600.* *(In a rare instance)*
On the client's end, I've worked with:
1. *Cisco 2800 & 2900.* *(Mostly used for redundancy setups)* 2. *Cisco 1800 & 1900.* *(Mostly used for single last-mile circuits)* 3. *Cisco 800.* *(Worst CE device I've ever worked with)*
Warm regards,
Michael.
On 23 August 2016 at 16:10, Thuo Wilson <lixton@gmail.com> wrote:
Kind Regards,
Wilson./
On 23 August 2016 at 16:02, Michael Bullut <main@kipsang.com> wrote:
Greetings Wilson,
While I haven't worked with IS-IS before but the only disadvantage I've encountered with OSPF is that it is resource intensive on the router it is running on which is why only one instance runs on any PE & P device on an ISP network. OSPF is pretty good in handling the core network routing while BGP & EGP handle the last-mile routing between PE & CE devices. BGP & EGP can run on top of OSPF.
Warm regards,
Michael.
Though, below is also true, we dont run a cisco2800 on core network.
Overload Mechanism – IS-IS has the ability to set the Overload (OL) bit in its LSAs. This results in other routers in that area treating this router as a leaf router in their shortest path trees, which means that its only used for reaching the directly connected interfaces and is never placed on the transit path to reach other routers. So does this happen any more? No, it doesnt. This feature was required in the jurassic age when routers came with severely constrained memory, CPU power and the original intention of the OL mechanism is now mostly irrelevant. Most core routers today have enough memory and CPU that they will not get inundated by the IS-IS routes in any sane network design.
On 23 August 2016 at 15:34, Thuo Wilson via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Network Admins,
I Once went for an interview as a Core Network Admin in one of the major telcos in KE and asked which protocol i preferred and why.
Am sure am not the only one and won't stop here.
Though i gave my own reasons, a panelist insisted ISIS is superior and gave his reasons by grinning but not explaining to an interviewee [me of course]. Sadly i didn't get the job, probably because *i asked him* WHY he think isis is superior that OSPF :(
I came across this URL http://bit.ly/2bsqJCA when scrolling the web today, one year later - i still wanted to find out if am the only one who thinks its a matter of choice btwn the 2. Although there isn't distinct 1:1 argument, its good we discuss it here and figure out why one prefer one over the other - *consider a FLAT huge network.*
Kind Regards,
Wilson./
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--
Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft."
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In terms of functionality, I do not think either has advantage over the other. However there could be reasons why one would prefer one IGP over the other: 1. Provider network environment - do all you equipment support the IGP? Vendor support for the IGP in relation to MPLS TE and other technologies you want to support. 2. Availability of technical expertise for the IGP 3. Ease of deployment and scaling. ISIS is easier to deploy and scale on IPv4/IPv6 dual stack environment compared to OSPF which requires separate processes and area design. It's a matter of organization choice in my opinion On 24 Aug 2016 15:04, "Thuo Wilson via skunkworks" < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
In other words, ISIS is no superior. Or are we comparing mangoes and oranges
@Wash, bona unaweka kufuri/li?
Kind Regards, Wilson./
On 24 August 2016 at 12:39, Alex Watila via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Roflol,
Admin wash, please let us learn
Regards,
Alex
*From:* Odhiambo Washington via skunkworks [mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co .ke] *Sent:* Tuesday, August 23, 2016 10:09 PM *To:* Michuki Mwangi <michuki.mwangi@gmail.com>; Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] OSPF vs ISIS - Which do you prefer and why
This topic is now closed. I think it sould have gone to the EaNOG list :-)
Sababu it sounded like me listening to a math teacher after a lunch of Ugali na mandondo!
On 23 August 2016 at 21:56, Michuki Mwangi via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Hi Both,
Both are IGP and use distance vector. The main difference between that OSPF is dependent on IP and ISIS is connectionless. LSA's and other stuff aside.
Both are used on core SP network to carry infrastructure and loopback prefixes period. Configuring IGP's to carry customer prefixes, Internet prefixes, etc is what makes them bulky. In turn IGP will occupy CPU cycles trying to continuously converge where they don't need to. If you carry your infrastructure and loopbacks using an IGP, they converge faster, database is mostly stable and they use less CPU.
Why OSPF over ISIS. In a multivendor environment you are more likely to find OSPF support than ISIS. For instance i would be curious to find out if the router board vendors have ISIS support. In a single or dual vendor environment you are likely to have support for ISIS. ISIS is relatively easier to deploy/support for most people, hence the reason why large single/dual vendor networks prefer it over OSPF.
My 2 cents.
Michuki.
On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 4:45 PM, Michael Bullut via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Hey Thuo,
What routers have you worked with?
On the provider's end *(POP side),* I've worked with:
1. *Cisco ASR 1006.* 2. *Cisco 7200.* 3. *Cisco 3600.* *(In a rare instance)*
On the client's end, I've worked with:
1. *Cisco 2800 & 2900.* *(Mostly used for redundancy setups)* 2. *Cisco 1800 & 1900.* *(Mostly used for single last-mile circuits)* 3. *Cisco 800.* *(Worst CE device I've ever worked with)*
Warm regards,
Michael.
On 23 August 2016 at 16:10, Thuo Wilson <lixton@gmail.com> wrote:
Kind Regards,
Wilson./
On 23 August 2016 at 16:02, Michael Bullut <main@kipsang.com> wrote:
Greetings Wilson,
While I haven't worked with IS-IS before but the only disadvantage I've encountered with OSPF is that it is resource intensive on the router it is running on which is why only one instance runs on any PE & P device on an ISP network. OSPF is pretty good in handling the core network routing while BGP & EGP handle the last-mile routing between PE & CE devices. BGP & EGP can run on top of OSPF.
Warm regards,
Michael.
Though, below is also true, we dont run a cisco2800 on core network.
Overload Mechanism – IS-IS has the ability to set the Overload (OL) bit in its LSAs. This results in other routers in that area treating this router as a leaf router in their shortest path trees, which means that its only used for reaching the directly connected interfaces and is never placed on the transit path to reach other routers. So does this happen any more? No, it doesnt. This feature was required in the jurassic age when routers came with severely constrained memory, CPU power and the original intention of the OL mechanism is now mostly irrelevant. Most core routers today have enough memory and CPU that they will not get inundated by the IS-IS routes in any sane network design.
On 23 August 2016 at 15:34, Thuo Wilson via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Network Admins,
I Once went for an interview as a Core Network Admin in one of the major telcos in KE and asked which protocol i preferred and why.
Am sure am not the only one and won't stop here.
Though i gave my own reasons, a panelist insisted ISIS is superior and gave his reasons by grinning but not explaining to an interviewee [me of course]. Sadly i didn't get the job, probably because *i asked him* WHY he think isis is superior that OSPF :(
I came across this URL http://bit.ly/2bsqJCA when scrolling the web today, one year later - i still wanted to find out if am the only one who thinks its a matter of choice btwn the 2. Although there isn't distinct 1:1 argument, its good we discuss it here and figure out why one prefer one over the other - *consider a FLAT huge network.*
Kind Regards,
Wilson./
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--
Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft."
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I *personally* would prefer OSPF for the following.. 1. Easier addressing, IS-IS feels like doing HEX 2. Security wise, OSPFv3 does better peer authentication using IPsec, the last i checked, IS-IS can only do MD5 which is easy to crack. 3. For Vendor support, Both are open standard and the big boys in the service provider space support both protocols so its easy to have a mix of Cisco, juniper, Huawei without much issues.... My two cents.. Kind regards On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 3:36 PM, Kennedy Aseda via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
In terms of functionality, I do not think either has advantage over the other. However there could be reasons why one would prefer one IGP over the other:
1. Provider network environment - do all you equipment support the IGP? Vendor support for the IGP in relation to MPLS TE and other technologies you want to support.
2. Availability of technical expertise for the IGP
3. Ease of deployment and scaling. ISIS is easier to deploy and scale on IPv4/IPv6 dual stack environment compared to OSPF which requires separate processes and area design.
It's a matter of organization choice in my opinion
On 24 Aug 2016 15:04, "Thuo Wilson via skunkworks" < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
In other words, ISIS is no superior. Or are we comparing mangoes and oranges
@Wash, bona unaweka kufuri/li?
Kind Regards, Wilson./
On 24 August 2016 at 12:39, Alex Watila via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Roflol,
Admin wash, please let us learn
Regards,
Alex
*From:* Odhiambo Washington via skunkworks [mailto: skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke] *Sent:* Tuesday, August 23, 2016 10:09 PM *To:* Michuki Mwangi <michuki.mwangi@gmail.com>; Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] OSPF vs ISIS - Which do you prefer and why
This topic is now closed. I think it sould have gone to the EaNOG list :-)
Sababu it sounded like me listening to a math teacher after a lunch of Ugali na mandondo!
On 23 August 2016 at 21:56, Michuki Mwangi via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Hi Both,
Both are IGP and use distance vector. The main difference between that OSPF is dependent on IP and ISIS is connectionless. LSA's and other stuff aside.
Both are used on core SP network to carry infrastructure and loopback prefixes period. Configuring IGP's to carry customer prefixes, Internet prefixes, etc is what makes them bulky. In turn IGP will occupy CPU cycles trying to continuously converge where they don't need to. If you carry your infrastructure and loopbacks using an IGP, they converge faster, database is mostly stable and they use less CPU.
Why OSPF over ISIS. In a multivendor environment you are more likely to find OSPF support than ISIS. For instance i would be curious to find out if the router board vendors have ISIS support. In a single or dual vendor environment you are likely to have support for ISIS. ISIS is relatively easier to deploy/support for most people, hence the reason why large single/dual vendor networks prefer it over OSPF.
My 2 cents.
Michuki.
On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 4:45 PM, Michael Bullut via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Hey Thuo,
What routers have you worked with?
On the provider's end *(POP side),* I've worked with:
1. *Cisco ASR 1006.* 2. *Cisco 7200.* 3. *Cisco 3600.* *(In a rare instance)*
On the client's end, I've worked with:
1. *Cisco 2800 & 2900.* *(Mostly used for redundancy setups)* 2. *Cisco 1800 & 1900.* *(Mostly used for single last-mile circuits)* 3. *Cisco 800.* *(Worst CE device I've ever worked with)*
Warm regards,
Michael.
On 23 August 2016 at 16:10, Thuo Wilson <lixton@gmail.com> wrote:
Kind Regards,
Wilson./
On 23 August 2016 at 16:02, Michael Bullut <main@kipsang.com> wrote:
Greetings Wilson,
While I haven't worked with IS-IS before but the only disadvantage I've encountered with OSPF is that it is resource intensive on the router it is running on which is why only one instance runs on any PE & P device on an ISP network. OSPF is pretty good in handling the core network routing while BGP & EGP handle the last-mile routing between PE & CE devices. BGP & EGP can run on top of OSPF.
Warm regards,
Michael.
Though, below is also true, we dont run a cisco2800 on core network.
Overload Mechanism – IS-IS has the ability to set the Overload (OL) bit in its LSAs. This results in other routers in that area treating this router as a leaf router in their shortest path trees, which means that its only used for reaching the directly connected interfaces and is never placed on the transit path to reach other routers. So does this happen any more? No, it doesnt. This feature was required in the jurassic age when routers came with severely constrained memory, CPU power and the original intention of the OL mechanism is now mostly irrelevant. Most core routers today have enough memory and CPU that they will not get inundated by the IS-IS routes in any sane network design.
On 23 August 2016 at 15:34, Thuo Wilson via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Network Admins,
I Once went for an interview as a Core Network Admin in one of the major telcos in KE and asked which protocol i preferred and why.
Am sure am not the only one and won't stop here.
Though i gave my own reasons, a panelist insisted ISIS is superior and gave his reasons by grinning but not explaining to an interviewee [me of course]. Sadly i didn't get the job, probably because *i asked him* WHY he think isis is superior that OSPF :(
I came across this URL http://bit.ly/2bsqJCA when scrolling the web today, one year later - i still wanted to find out if am the only one who thinks its a matter of choice btwn the 2. Although there isn't distinct 1:1 argument, its good we discuss it here and figure out why one prefer one over the other - *consider a FLAT huge network.*
Kind Regards,
Wilson./
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--
Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft."
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In a multi vendor environment sometimes the implementation of the open standard might not be complete especially if you're implementing some extensions to the IGP. So it's good to know what is fully implemented in case you'll go beyond the basic IGP feature deployment On 24 Aug 2016 17:17, "Dan Wanjohi via skunkworks" < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
I *personally* would prefer OSPF for the following..
1. Easier addressing, IS-IS feels like doing HEX 2. Security wise, OSPFv3 does better peer authentication using IPsec, the last i checked, IS-IS can only do MD5 which is easy to crack. 3. For Vendor support, Both are open standard and the big boys in the service provider space support both protocols so its easy to have a mix of Cisco, juniper, Huawei without much issues....
My two cents.. Kind regards
On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 3:36 PM, Kennedy Aseda via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
In terms of functionality, I do not think either has advantage over the other. However there could be reasons why one would prefer one IGP over the other:
1. Provider network environment - do all you equipment support the IGP? Vendor support for the IGP in relation to MPLS TE and other technologies you want to support.
2. Availability of technical expertise for the IGP
3. Ease of deployment and scaling. ISIS is easier to deploy and scale on IPv4/IPv6 dual stack environment compared to OSPF which requires separate processes and area design.
It's a matter of organization choice in my opinion
On 24 Aug 2016 15:04, "Thuo Wilson via skunkworks" < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
In other words, ISIS is no superior. Or are we comparing mangoes and oranges
@Wash, bona unaweka kufuri/li?
Kind Regards, Wilson./
On 24 August 2016 at 12:39, Alex Watila via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Roflol,
Admin wash, please let us learn
Regards,
Alex
*From:* Odhiambo Washington via skunkworks [mailto: skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke] *Sent:* Tuesday, August 23, 2016 10:09 PM *To:* Michuki Mwangi <michuki.mwangi@gmail.com>; Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] OSPF vs ISIS - Which do you prefer and why
This topic is now closed. I think it sould have gone to the EaNOG list :-)
Sababu it sounded like me listening to a math teacher after a lunch of Ugali na mandondo!
On 23 August 2016 at 21:56, Michuki Mwangi via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Hi Both,
Both are IGP and use distance vector. The main difference between that OSPF is dependent on IP and ISIS is connectionless. LSA's and other stuff aside.
Both are used on core SP network to carry infrastructure and loopback prefixes period. Configuring IGP's to carry customer prefixes, Internet prefixes, etc is what makes them bulky. In turn IGP will occupy CPU cycles trying to continuously converge where they don't need to. If you carry your infrastructure and loopbacks using an IGP, they converge faster, database is mostly stable and they use less CPU.
Why OSPF over ISIS. In a multivendor environment you are more likely to find OSPF support than ISIS. For instance i would be curious to find out if the router board vendors have ISIS support. In a single or dual vendor environment you are likely to have support for ISIS. ISIS is relatively easier to deploy/support for most people, hence the reason why large single/dual vendor networks prefer it over OSPF.
My 2 cents.
Michuki.
On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 4:45 PM, Michael Bullut via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Hey Thuo,
What routers have you worked with?
On the provider's end *(POP side),* I've worked with:
1. *Cisco ASR 1006.* 2. *Cisco 7200.* 3. *Cisco 3600.* *(In a rare instance)*
On the client's end, I've worked with:
1. *Cisco 2800 & 2900.* *(Mostly used for redundancy setups)* 2. *Cisco 1800 & 1900.* *(Mostly used for single last-mile circuits)* 3. *Cisco 800.* *(Worst CE device I've ever worked with)*
Warm regards,
Michael.
On 23 August 2016 at 16:10, Thuo Wilson <lixton@gmail.com> wrote:
Kind Regards,
Wilson./
On 23 August 2016 at 16:02, Michael Bullut <main@kipsang.com> wrote:
Greetings Wilson,
While I haven't worked with IS-IS before but the only disadvantage I've encountered with OSPF is that it is resource intensive on the router it is running on which is why only one instance runs on any PE & P device on an ISP network. OSPF is pretty good in handling the core network routing while BGP & EGP handle the last-mile routing between PE & CE devices. BGP & EGP can run on top of OSPF.
Warm regards,
Michael.
Though, below is also true, we dont run a cisco2800 on core network.
Overload Mechanism – IS-IS has the ability to set the Overload (OL) bit in its LSAs. This results in other routers in that area treating this router as a leaf router in their shortest path trees, which means that its only used for reaching the directly connected interfaces and is never placed on the transit path to reach other routers. So does this happen any more? No, it doesnt. This feature was required in the jurassic age when routers came with severely constrained memory, CPU power and the original intention of the OL mechanism is now mostly irrelevant. Most core routers today have enough memory and CPU that they will not get inundated by the IS-IS routes in any sane network design.
On 23 August 2016 at 15:34, Thuo Wilson via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Network Admins,
I Once went for an interview as a Core Network Admin in one of the major telcos in KE and asked which protocol i preferred and why.
Am sure am not the only one and won't stop here.
Though i gave my own reasons, a panelist insisted ISIS is superior and gave his reasons by grinning but not explaining to an interviewee [me of course]. Sadly i didn't get the job, probably because *i asked him* WHY he think isis is superior that OSPF :(
I came across this URL http://bit.ly/2bsqJCA when scrolling the web today, one year later - i still wanted to find out if am the only one who thinks its a matter of choice btwn the 2. Although there isn't distinct 1:1 argument, its good we discuss it here and figure out why one prefer one over the other - *consider a FLAT huge network.*
Kind Regards,
Wilson./
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--
Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft."
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Hi Kennedy, et al On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 3:36 PM, Kennedy Aseda via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
In terms of functionality, I do not think either has advantage over the other. However there could be reasons why one would prefer one IGP over the other:
1. Provider network environment - do all you equipment support the IGP? Vendor support for the IGP in relation to MPLS TE and other technologies you want to support.
Huh! you mean vendor cool-aid? Best of luck!.
2. Availability of technical expertise for the IGP
Perhaps. But if an engineer understands the concepts the IGP can always be learned in a short while.
3. Ease of deployment and scaling. ISIS is easier to deploy and scale on IPv4/IPv6 dual stack environment compared to OSPF which requires separate processes and area design.
A good engineer is a lazy engineer ;)
It's a matter of organization choice in my opinion
I tend to think it is boils down to either the vendor influence for large networks and comfort of the lead network engineer/CTO for medium to small networks. Regards, Michuki.
In large scale proper MPLS networks. IS-IS supports TE integration IS-IS uses tlvs which makes it easier to extend it capabilities. Can handle both IPv6 and IPv4 That said none of the kenyan ISP I have seen have P routers, Just interlinked PE routers. No carrier supporting carrier integrations, no interprovider MPLS customers, no multicast MPLS integrations and hence my earlier comments. On Wednesday, August 24, 2016, Michuki Mwangi via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Hi Kennedy, et al
On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 3:36 PM, Kennedy Aseda via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke');>> wrote:
In terms of functionality, I do not think either has advantage over the other. However there could be reasons why one would prefer one IGP over the other:
1. Provider network environment - do all you equipment support the IGP? Vendor support for the IGP in relation to MPLS TE and other technologies you want to support.
Huh! you mean vendor cool-aid? Best of luck!.
2. Availability of technical expertise for the IGP
Perhaps. But if an engineer understands the concepts the IGP can always be learned in a short while.
3. Ease of deployment and scaling. ISIS is easier to deploy and scale on IPv4/IPv6 dual stack environment compared to OSPF which requires separate processes and area design.
A good engineer is a lazy engineer ;)
It's a matter of organization choice in my opinion
I tend to think it is boils down to either the vendor influence for large networks and comfort of the lead network engineer/CTO for medium to small networks.
Regards,
Michuki.
-- Best Regards, Stephen Munguti. +254720425104
So we stick to OSPF, because no one wants to complicate things, unfortunately as we integrate more services, I doubt we will sustain the current architectures. On Wednesday, August 24, 2016, Stephen Munguti <kamitu.sm@gmail.com> wrote:
In large scale proper MPLS networks.
IS-IS supports TE integration IS-IS uses tlvs which makes it easier to extend it capabilities. Can handle both IPv6 and IPv4
That said none of the kenyan ISP I have seen have P routers, Just interlinked PE routers. No carrier supporting carrier integrations, no interprovider MPLS customers, no multicast MPLS integrations and hence my earlier comments.
On Wednesday, August 24, 2016, Michuki Mwangi via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke');>> wrote:
Hi Kennedy, et al
On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 3:36 PM, Kennedy Aseda via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
In terms of functionality, I do not think either has advantage over the other. However there could be reasons why one would prefer one IGP over the other:
1. Provider network environment - do all you equipment support the IGP? Vendor support for the IGP in relation to MPLS TE and other technologies you want to support.
Huh! you mean vendor cool-aid? Best of luck!.
2. Availability of technical expertise for the IGP
Perhaps. But if an engineer understands the concepts the IGP can always be learned in a short while.
3. Ease of deployment and scaling. ISIS is easier to deploy and scale on IPv4/IPv6 dual stack environment compared to OSPF which requires separate processes and area design.
A good engineer is a lazy engineer ;)
It's a matter of organization choice in my opinion
I tend to think it is boils down to either the vendor influence for large networks and comfort of the lead network engineer/CTO for medium to small networks.
Regards,
Michuki.
--
Best Regards, Stephen Munguti.
+254720425104
-- Best Regards, Stephen Munguti. +254720425104
On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 9:26 PM, Stephen Munguti <kamitu.sm@gmail.com> wrote:
So we stick to OSPF, because no one wants to complicate things, unfortunately as we integrate more services, I doubt we will sustain the current architectures.
Fair point. Please explain how everything you have said cannot be accomplished by good old end-to-end IPSEC tunnels ?
On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 9:23 PM, Stephen Munguti <kamitu.sm@gmail.com> wrote:
In large scale proper MPLS networks.
IS-IS supports TE integration IS-IS uses tlvs which makes it easier to extend it capabilities.
Back when i ran networks early 2000s and had 3 x 9600 baud-rate modems between Malindi and Mombasa. IS-IS TE integration would have worked great for me. Today when i have 1G and 10G ports between cities and ability to create LAGs on switches. Yet despite the lack of IS-IS TE, OSPF was rock solid in load balancing traffic across the 3 links. Points well noted.
Can handle both IPv6 and IPv4
So does OSPFv3 :). not so direct though. But it does.
That said none of the kenyan ISP I have seen have P routers, Just interlinked PE routers. No carrier supporting carrier integrations, no interprovider MPLS customers, no multicast MPLS integrations and hence my earlier comments.
Seriously ... do customers pay extra for these solutions ?. Regards, Michuki.
IMHO personal/individual preference is the answer - not current feature sets - at least not here in KE as yet, to the best of my knowledge. But it is worth asking around to get to know more. Regards, Michuki. On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 1:14 AM, Michuki Mwangi <michuki.mwangi@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 9:23 PM, Stephen Munguti <kamitu.sm@gmail.com> wrote:
In large scale proper MPLS networks.
IS-IS supports TE integration IS-IS uses tlvs which makes it easier to extend it capabilities.
Back when i ran networks early 2000s and had 3 x 9600 baud-rate modems between Malindi and Mombasa. IS-IS TE integration would have worked great for me. Today when i have 1G and 10G ports between cities and ability to create LAGs on switches. Yet despite the lack of IS-IS TE, OSPF was rock solid in load balancing traffic across the 3 links.
Points well noted.
Can handle both IPv6 and IPv4
So does OSPFv3 :). not so direct though. But it does.
That said none of the kenyan ISP I have seen have P routers, Just interlinked PE routers. No carrier supporting carrier integrations, no interprovider MPLS customers, no multicast MPLS integrations and hence my earlier comments.
Seriously ... do customers pay extra for these solutions ?.
Regards,
Michuki.
You should ask yourself why trill uses ISIS On Thursday, August 25, 2016, Michuki Mwangi <michuki.mwangi@gmail.com> wrote:
IMHO personal/individual preference is the answer - not current feature sets - at least not here in KE as yet, to the best of my knowledge. But it is worth asking around to get to know more.
Regards,
Michuki.
On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 1:14 AM, Michuki Mwangi <michuki.mwangi@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','michuki.mwangi@gmail.com');>> wrote:
On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 9:23 PM, Stephen Munguti <kamitu.sm@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kamitu.sm@gmail.com');>> wrote:
In large scale proper MPLS networks.
IS-IS supports TE integration IS-IS uses tlvs which makes it easier to extend it capabilities.
Back when i ran networks early 2000s and had 3 x 9600 baud-rate modems between Malindi and Mombasa. IS-IS TE integration would have worked great for me. Today when i have 1G and 10G ports between cities and ability to create LAGs on switches. Yet despite the lack of IS-IS TE, OSPF was rock solid in load balancing traffic across the 3 links.
Points well noted.
Can handle both IPv6 and IPv4
So does OSPFv3 :). not so direct though. But it does.
That said none of the kenyan ISP I have seen have P routers, Just interlinked PE routers. No carrier supporting carrier integrations, no interprovider MPLS customers, no multicast MPLS integrations and hence my earlier comments.
Seriously ... do customers pay extra for these solutions ?.
Regards,
Michuki.
-- Best Regards, Stephen Munguti. +254720425104
Also P routers are for the sake of the ISP sanity. But the fact that you are asking why we need them(are the customers paying for them) further proves my point, our ISPs are just not ready to carry some services over mpls. We should stick to our current transmission based solutions. Finally the MPLS featurs outlined above requires a certain level of expertise in all providers because of how they are interlinked. I doubt that's gonna happen. That's my opinion, nobody has to listen to it. On Thursday, August 25, 2016, Stephen Munguti <kamitu.sm@gmail.com> wrote:
You should ask yourself why trill uses ISIS
On Thursday, August 25, 2016, Michuki Mwangi <michuki.mwangi@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','michuki.mwangi@gmail.com');>> wrote:
IMHO personal/individual preference is the answer - not current feature sets - at least not here in KE as yet, to the best of my knowledge. But it is worth asking around to get to know more.
Regards,
Michuki.
On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 1:14 AM, Michuki Mwangi <michuki.mwangi@gmail.com
wrote:
On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 9:23 PM, Stephen Munguti <kamitu.sm@gmail.com> wrote:
In large scale proper MPLS networks.
IS-IS supports TE integration IS-IS uses tlvs which makes it easier to extend it capabilities.
Back when i ran networks early 2000s and had 3 x 9600 baud-rate modems between Malindi and Mombasa. IS-IS TE integration would have worked great for me. Today when i have 1G and 10G ports between cities and ability to create LAGs on switches. Yet despite the lack of IS-IS TE, OSPF was rock solid in load balancing traffic across the 3 links.
Points well noted.
Can handle both IPv6 and IPv4
So does OSPFv3 :). not so direct though. But it does.
That said none of the kenyan ISP I have seen have P routers, Just interlinked PE routers. No carrier supporting carrier integrations, no interprovider MPLS customers, no multicast MPLS integrations and hence my earlier comments.
Seriously ... do customers pay extra for these solutions ?.
Regards,
Michuki.
--
Best Regards, Stephen Munguti.
+254720425104
-- Best Regards, Stephen Munguti. +254720425104
This looks like holy war between network engineers. Reminds me of those epic eclipse vs netbeans battles. On 25 August 2016 at 08:36, Stephen Munguti via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Also P routers are for the sake of the ISP sanity. But the fact that you are asking why we need them(are the customers paying for them) further proves my point, our ISPs are just not ready to carry some services over mpls. We should stick to our current transmission based solutions.
Finally the MPLS featurs outlined above requires a certain level of expertise in all providers because of how they are interlinked. I doubt that's gonna happen.
That's my opinion, nobody has to listen to it.
On Thursday, August 25, 2016, Stephen Munguti <kamitu.sm@gmail.com> wrote:
You should ask yourself why trill uses ISIS
On Thursday, August 25, 2016, Michuki Mwangi <michuki.mwangi@gmail.com> wrote:
IMHO personal/individual preference is the answer - not current feature sets - at least not here in KE as yet, to the best of my knowledge. But it is worth asking around to get to know more.
Regards,
Michuki.
On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 1:14 AM, Michuki Mwangi < michuki.mwangi@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 9:23 PM, Stephen Munguti <kamitu.sm@gmail.com> wrote:
In large scale proper MPLS networks.
IS-IS supports TE integration IS-IS uses tlvs which makes it easier to extend it capabilities.
Back when i ran networks early 2000s and had 3 x 9600 baud-rate modems between Malindi and Mombasa. IS-IS TE integration would have worked great for me. Today when i have 1G and 10G ports between cities and ability to create LAGs on switches. Yet despite the lack of IS-IS TE, OSPF was rock solid in load balancing traffic across the 3 links.
Points well noted.
Can handle both IPv6 and IPv4
So does OSPFv3 :). not so direct though. But it does.
That said none of the kenyan ISP I have seen have P routers, Just interlinked PE routers. No carrier supporting carrier integrations, no interprovider MPLS customers, no multicast MPLS integrations and hence my earlier comments.
Seriously ... do customers pay extra for these solutions ?.
Regards,
Michuki.
--
Best Regards, Stephen Munguti.
+254720425104
--
Best Regards, Stephen Munguti.
+254720425104
_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards, James
@James, eclipse won that war. Nowadays its eclipse vs sublime ;-) On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 8:54 AM, James Njoroge via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
This looks like holy war between network engineers. Reminds me of those epic eclipse vs netbeans battles.
On 25 August 2016 at 08:36, Stephen Munguti via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Also P routers are for the sake of the ISP sanity. But the fact that you are asking why we need them(are the customers paying for them) further proves my point, our ISPs are just not ready to carry some services over mpls. We should stick to our current transmission based solutions.
Finally the MPLS featurs outlined above requires a certain level of expertise in all providers because of how they are interlinked. I doubt that's gonna happen.
That's my opinion, nobody has to listen to it.
On Thursday, August 25, 2016, Stephen Munguti <kamitu.sm@gmail.com> wrote:
You should ask yourself why trill uses ISIS
On Thursday, August 25, 2016, Michuki Mwangi <michuki.mwangi@gmail.com> wrote:
IMHO personal/individual preference is the answer - not current feature sets - at least not here in KE as yet, to the best of my knowledge. But it is worth asking around to get to know more.
Regards,
Michuki.
On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 1:14 AM, Michuki Mwangi < michuki.mwangi@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 9:23 PM, Stephen Munguti <kamitu.sm@gmail.com> wrote:
In large scale proper MPLS networks.
IS-IS supports TE integration IS-IS uses tlvs which makes it easier to extend it capabilities.
Back when i ran networks early 2000s and had 3 x 9600 baud-rate modems between Malindi and Mombasa. IS-IS TE integration would have worked great for me. Today when i have 1G and 10G ports between cities and ability to create LAGs on switches. Yet despite the lack of IS-IS TE, OSPF was rock solid in load balancing traffic across the 3 links.
Points well noted.
Can handle both IPv6 and IPv4
So does OSPFv3 :). not so direct though. But it does.
That said none of the kenyan ISP I have seen have P routers, Just interlinked PE routers. No carrier supporting carrier integrations, no interprovider MPLS customers, no multicast MPLS integrations and hence my earlier comments.
Seriously ... do customers pay extra for these solutions ?.
Regards,
Michuki.
--
Best Regards, Stephen Munguti.
+254720425104
--
Best Regards, Stephen Munguti.
+254720425104
_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards, James
_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
Stephen, On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 8:36 AM, Stephen Munguti <kamitu.sm@gmail.com> wrote:
Also P routers are for the sake of the ISP sanity. But the fact that you are asking why we need them(are the customers paying for them) further proves my point, our ISPs are just not ready to carry some services over mpls. We should stick to our current transmission based solutions.
Actually you are mistaken. This is where we tend to fail as engineers. Certain feature sets are great. If they weren't the IETF Routing Area Working Group would have far less activity than it does today. But in our market these feature sets must have use cases else how do you justify the business case ?. So in addition to being an engineer, you must understand the business case for these features.
Finally the MPLS featurs outlined above requires a certain level of expertise in all providers because of how they are interlinked. I doubt that's gonna happen.
I have an old school mentality where i believe that one can teach themselves just about anything, as long as they have the time, patience, interest and passion. If they cannot learn on their own, then vendors have this service where you can pay for service to be implemented and they support it too. However, the later does require a business case
That's my opinion, nobody has to listen to it.
Look, its a discussion and it is worth learning and knowing what folk think about the new technologies. More specifically am very curious about practical use case over vendor marketing in our region. To draw a correlation to this discussion, you might see similarities to the whole issue of IPv6 uptake. Our region is far behind most others and in my view this is largely because of business case vs. practical use case justifications. Regards, Michuki.
My point is that the business case must come from the internal technical team. Customer has no awareness to the existence of P routers On Thursday, August 25, 2016, Michuki Mwangi <michuki.mwangi@gmail.com> wrote:
Stephen,
On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 8:36 AM, Stephen Munguti <kamitu.sm@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kamitu.sm@gmail.com');>> wrote:
Also P routers are for the sake of the ISP sanity. But the fact that you are asking why we need them(are the customers paying for them) further proves my point, our ISPs are just not ready to carry some services over mpls. We should stick to our current transmission based solutions.
Actually you are mistaken. This is where we tend to fail as engineers. Certain feature sets are great. If they weren't the IETF Routing Area Working Group would have far less activity than it does today. But in our market these feature sets must have use cases else how do you justify the business case ?. So in addition to being an engineer, you must understand the business case for these features.
Finally the MPLS featurs outlined above requires a certain level of expertise in all providers because of how they are interlinked. I doubt that's gonna happen.
I have an old school mentality where i believe that one can teach themselves just about anything, as long as they have the time, patience, interest and passion. If they cannot learn on their own, then vendors have this service where you can pay for service to be implemented and they support it too. However, the later does require a business case
That's my opinion, nobody has to listen to it.
Look, its a discussion and it is worth learning and knowing what folk think about the new technologies. More specifically am very curious about practical use case over vendor marketing in our region. To draw a correlation to this discussion, you might see similarities to the whole issue of IPv6 uptake. Our region is far behind most others and in my view this is largely because of business case vs. practical use case justifications.
Regards,
Michuki.
-- Best Regards, Stephen Munguti. +254720425104
On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 10:15 AM, Stephen Munguti <kamitu.sm@gmail.com> wrote:
My point is that the business case must come from the internal technical team. Customer has no awareness to the existence of P routers
Agreed the more reason engineers need to learn to speak above layer 7 :). Regards, Michuki.
Yes, agreed. But we should never let finance or marketing department to have too much control on the technical department and it's directions. Otherwise nothing will get done, Remember yu arguing that they have no need for a 3G as people don't have the handsets, meanwhile safaricom was busy rolling out their 3G. On Thursday, August 25, 2016, Michuki Mwangi <michuki.mwangi@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 10:15 AM, Stephen Munguti <kamitu.sm@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kamitu.sm@gmail.com');>> wrote:
My point is that the business case must come from the internal technical team. Customer has no awareness to the existence of P routers
Agreed the more reason engineers need to learn to speak above layer 7 :).
Regards,
Michuki.
-- Best Regards, Stephen Munguti. +254720425104
Now everyone is trying to play catch up on 3G while they are rolling out 4G and talking of 5G On Thursday, August 25, 2016, Stephen Munguti <kamitu.sm@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes, agreed.
But we should never let finance or marketing department to have too much control on the technical department and it's directions.
Otherwise nothing will get done, Remember yu arguing that they have no need for a 3G as people don't have the handsets, meanwhile safaricom was busy rolling out their 3G.
On Thursday, August 25, 2016, Michuki Mwangi <michuki.mwangi@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','michuki.mwangi@gmail.com');>> wrote:
On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 10:15 AM, Stephen Munguti <kamitu.sm@gmail.com> wrote:
My point is that the business case must come from the internal technical team. Customer has no awareness to the existence of P routers
Agreed the more reason engineers need to learn to speak above layer 7 :).
Regards,
Michuki.
--
Best Regards, Stephen Munguti.
+254720425104
-- Best Regards, Stephen Munguti. +254720425104
I remember some years back I called Safaricom to ask them about syncing the time from the network. For some reason it wasn't doing this while all the other networks could automatically sync the time for the phone. The response from the customer care rep was that she would pass it on to Engineering and see what can be done. 2 Days later the service was there. I made a request to Celtel/Zain in the same period about something else I think it was the cell info thing and their response was that they would talk to marketing or product development or something of the sort. Nothing ever happened. That told me that's where the power lay. @ Safaricom the engineers called the shots possibly due to MJ being an engineer while at Zain the marketing guys run the show. Don't know if its still like this. On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 12:20 PM, Stephen Munguti via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Now everyone is trying to play catch up on 3G while they are rolling out 4G and talking of 5G
On Thursday, August 25, 2016, Stephen Munguti <kamitu.sm@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes, agreed.
But we should never let finance or marketing department to have too much control on the technical department and it's directions.
Otherwise nothing will get done, Remember yu arguing that they have no need for a 3G as people don't have the handsets, meanwhile safaricom was busy rolling out their 3G.
On Thursday, August 25, 2016, Michuki Mwangi <michuki.mwangi@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 10:15 AM, Stephen Munguti <kamitu.sm@gmail.com> wrote:
My point is that the business case must come from the internal technical team. Customer has no awareness to the existence of P routers
Agreed the more reason engineers need to learn to speak above layer 7 :).
Regards,
Michuki.
--
Best Regards, Stephen Munguti.
+254720425104
--
Best Regards, Stephen Munguti.
+254720425104
_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards, Mark Mwangi markmwangi.me.ke
Good! Clearly there is no winner between ISIS and OSPF. OSPF however in my opinion has really advanced over the years and its a protocol that will [reign] for many years. Therefore i will stick to OSPF as my preferred and ISIS in-case someone asks me to. Wait till EIGRP [now that cisco decided to open it since 2013] is shipped with all/modt devices, think ISIS will be obsolete - i might be wrong you know. Problem is will companies invest in developing the protocol within their devices? Now i know am not the only one who felt its a matter of choice/preference. Asanteni sana. Kind Regards, Wilson./ On 25 August 2016 at 12:41, Mark Mwangi via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
I remember some years back I called Safaricom to ask them about syncing the time from the network. For some reason it wasn't doing this while all the other networks could automatically sync the time for the phone. The response from the customer care rep was that she would pass it on to Engineering and see what can be done. 2 Days later the service was there.
I made a request to Celtel/Zain in the same period about something else I think it was the cell info thing and their response was that they would talk to marketing or product development or something of the sort. Nothing ever happened. That told me that's where the power lay.
@ Safaricom the engineers called the shots possibly due to MJ being an engineer while at Zain the marketing guys run the show. Don't know if its still like this.
On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 12:20 PM, Stephen Munguti via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Now everyone is trying to play catch up on 3G while they are rolling out 4G and talking of 5G
On Thursday, August 25, 2016, Stephen Munguti <kamitu.sm@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes, agreed.
But we should never let finance or marketing department to have too much control on the technical department and it's directions.
Otherwise nothing will get done, Remember yu arguing that they have no need for a 3G as people don't have the handsets, meanwhile safaricom was busy rolling out their 3G.
On Thursday, August 25, 2016, Michuki Mwangi <michuki.mwangi@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 10:15 AM, Stephen Munguti <kamitu.sm@gmail.com> wrote:
My point is that the business case must come from the internal technical team. Customer has no awareness to the existence of P routers
Agreed the more reason engineers need to learn to speak above layer 7 :).
Regards,
Michuki.
--
Best Regards, Stephen Munguti.
+254720425104
--
Best Regards, Stephen Munguti.
+254720425104
_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards,
Mark Mwangi
markmwangi.me.ke
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On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 3:32 PM, Thuo Wilson via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Good!
Clearly there is no winner between ISIS and OSPF. OSPF however in my opinion has really advanced over the years and its a protocol that will [reign] for many years.
Since the IETF Routing area WG is still active. Maybe a more advance IGP will come along ... who knows :)
Therefore i will stick to OSPF as my preferred and ISIS in-case someone asks me to. Wait till EIGRP [now that cisco decided to open it since 2013] is shipped with all/modt devices, think ISIS will be obsolete - i might be wrong you know. Problem is will companies invest in developing the protocol within their devices?
My suggestion is understand the concept of link state protocols and how they work in relation to path vector protocols. Once you have that mastered, you can pretty much implement any IGP/EGP on any vendor within a short while of understanding their syntax and implementation approach. These don't take too long. For instance, read up on a routing daemon called BIRD which supports BGP Multi-Rib,- where each peer has their own RIB. So much fun so little time.
Now i know am not the only one who felt its a matter of choice/preference.
Let me reiterate it once again. For now it is still a matter of preference/choice. However, in the days ahead as connectivity matures and end users demand more features, the IGP will be largely influenced by your implementation use cases. That time is not too far ahead - so keep researching.
Asanteni sana.
Karibu and thank you for engaging us on this topic. Regards, Michuki.
ISIS is preferred due to its simplicity, I know of two reasons; 1. ISIS does not use IPV4 address family - Even if your ISIS Address is wrong, it will still work. OSPF will complain in such a situation. 2. In a FLAT (Single Area) network ISIS can handle hundreds of routers while OSPF will struggle at 80-90 routers. If you are using OSPF as your IGP in an MPLS network, you can imagine the issues that might come up with the ABRs and ASBRs in a multi-area setup. Guys - please avoid mentioning multi-vendor - both are standard protocols. Regards, Francis On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 12:41 PM, Mark Mwangi via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
I remember some years back I called Safaricom to ask them about syncing the time from the network. For some reason it wasn't doing this while all the other networks could automatically sync the time for the phone. The response from the customer care rep was that she would pass it on to Engineering and see what can be done. 2 Days later the service was there.
I made a request to Celtel/Zain in the same period about something else I think it was the cell info thing and their response was that they would talk to marketing or product development or something of the sort. Nothing ever happened. That told me that's where the power lay.
@ Safaricom the engineers called the shots possibly due to MJ being an engineer while at Zain the marketing guys run the show. Don't know if its still like this.
On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 12:20 PM, Stephen Munguti via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Now everyone is trying to play catch up on 3G while they are rolling out 4G and talking of 5G
On Thursday, August 25, 2016, Stephen Munguti <kamitu.sm@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes, agreed.
But we should never let finance or marketing department to have too much control on the technical department and it's directions.
Otherwise nothing will get done, Remember yu arguing that they have no need for a 3G as people don't have the handsets, meanwhile safaricom was busy rolling out their 3G.
On Thursday, August 25, 2016, Michuki Mwangi <michuki.mwangi@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 10:15 AM, Stephen Munguti <kamitu.sm@gmail.com> wrote:
My point is that the business case must come from the internal technical team. Customer has no awareness to the existence of P routers
Agreed the more reason engineers need to learn to speak above layer 7 :).
Regards,
Michuki.
--
Best Regards, Stephen Munguti.
+254720425104
--
Best Regards, Stephen Munguti.
+254720425104
_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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-- Regards,
Mark Mwangi
markmwangi.me.ke
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Multi-vendor should not just be ignored. Implementation of the standards at software level is not always standard or complete based on my own experience and experience of others I know. Kennedy On 25 Aug 2016 15:42, "Francis Kamau via skunkworks" < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
ISIS is preferred due to its simplicity, I know of two reasons;
1. ISIS does not use IPV4 address family - Even if your ISIS Address is wrong, it will still work. OSPF will complain in such a situation. 2. In a FLAT (Single Area) network ISIS can handle hundreds of routers while OSPF will struggle at 80-90 routers. If you are using OSPF as your IGP in an MPLS network, you can imagine the issues that might come up with the ABRs and ASBRs in a multi-area setup.
Guys - please avoid mentioning multi-vendor - both are standard protocols.
Regards, Francis
On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 12:41 PM, Mark Mwangi via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
I remember some years back I called Safaricom to ask them about syncing the time from the network. For some reason it wasn't doing this while all the other networks could automatically sync the time for the phone. The response from the customer care rep was that she would pass it on to Engineering and see what can be done. 2 Days later the service was there.
I made a request to Celtel/Zain in the same period about something else I think it was the cell info thing and their response was that they would talk to marketing or product development or something of the sort. Nothing ever happened. That told me that's where the power lay.
@ Safaricom the engineers called the shots possibly due to MJ being an engineer while at Zain the marketing guys run the show. Don't know if its still like this.
On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 12:20 PM, Stephen Munguti via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Now everyone is trying to play catch up on 3G while they are rolling out 4G and talking of 5G
On Thursday, August 25, 2016, Stephen Munguti <kamitu.sm@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes, agreed.
But we should never let finance or marketing department to have too much control on the technical department and it's directions.
Otherwise nothing will get done, Remember yu arguing that they have no need for a 3G as people don't have the handsets, meanwhile safaricom was busy rolling out their 3G.
On Thursday, August 25, 2016, Michuki Mwangi <michuki.mwangi@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 10:15 AM, Stephen Munguti <kamitu.sm@gmail.com
wrote:
My point is that the business case must come from the internal technical team. Customer has no awareness to the existence of P routers
Agreed the more reason engineers need to learn to speak above layer 7 :).
Regards,
Michuki.
--
Best Regards, Stephen Munguti.
+254720425104
--
Best Regards, Stephen Munguti.
+254720425104
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-- Regards,
Mark Mwangi
markmwangi.me.ke
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True some vendors have their own versions of ISIS, and RIP. Talking from experience On Thursday, August 25, 2016, Kennedy Aseda via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Multi-vendor should not just be ignored. Implementation of the standards at software level is not always standard or complete based on my own experience and experience of others I know.
Kennedy
On 25 Aug 2016 15:42, "Francis Kamau via skunkworks" < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke');>> wrote:
ISIS is preferred due to its simplicity, I know of two reasons;
1. ISIS does not use IPV4 address family - Even if your ISIS Address is wrong, it will still work. OSPF will complain in such a situation. 2. In a FLAT (Single Area) network ISIS can handle hundreds of routers while OSPF will struggle at 80-90 routers. If you are using OSPF as your IGP in an MPLS network, you can imagine the issues that might come up with the ABRs and ASBRs in a multi-area setup.
Guys - please avoid mentioning multi-vendor - both are standard protocols.
Regards, Francis
On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 12:41 PM, Mark Mwangi via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke');>> wrote:
I remember some years back I called Safaricom to ask them about syncing the time from the network. For some reason it wasn't doing this while all the other networks could automatically sync the time for the phone. The response from the customer care rep was that she would pass it on to Engineering and see what can be done. 2 Days later the service was there.
I made a request to Celtel/Zain in the same period about something else I think it was the cell info thing and their response was that they would talk to marketing or product development or something of the sort. Nothing ever happened. That told me that's where the power lay.
@ Safaricom the engineers called the shots possibly due to MJ being an engineer while at Zain the marketing guys run the show. Don't know if its still like this.
On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 12:20 PM, Stephen Munguti via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke');>> wrote:
Now everyone is trying to play catch up on 3G while they are rolling out 4G and talking of 5G
On Thursday, August 25, 2016, Stephen Munguti <kamitu.sm@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kamitu.sm@gmail.com');>> wrote:
Yes, agreed.
But we should never let finance or marketing department to have too much control on the technical department and it's directions.
Otherwise nothing will get done, Remember yu arguing that they have no need for a 3G as people don't have the handsets, meanwhile safaricom was busy rolling out their 3G.
On Thursday, August 25, 2016, Michuki Mwangi <michuki.mwangi@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 10:15 AM, Stephen Munguti < kamitu.sm@gmail.com> wrote:
> My point is that the business case must come from the internal > technical team. Customer has no awareness to the existence of P routers > > Agreed the more reason engineers need to learn to speak above layer 7 :).
Regards,
Michuki.
--
Best Regards, Stephen Munguti.
+254720425104
--
Best Regards, Stephen Munguti.
+254720425104
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-- Regards,
Mark Mwangi
markmwangi.me.ke
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-- Best Regards, Stephen Munguti. +254720425104
On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 3:51 PM, Kennedy Aseda via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Multi-vendor should not just be ignored. Implementation of the standards at software level is not always standard or complete based on my own experience and experience of others I know.
+1.
Hi, Apologies for a late response, but my 2 cents. Well at this age both OSPF and ISIS are equally usable as an iGP for a service provider as both have equally matured from a vendors's development standpoint. While ISIS is widely used by most ISPs, there is a known ISP in SA that has always used OSPF comfortably for years. But the main reason most operators stick to ISIS is its historical stability and development by the vendors back then. It is therefore assumed that in the event of feature enhancement, a vendor will most likely apply such on ISIS before OSPF due to expected high pressure from big ISPs. Otherwise both have same concept, but different terminologies. Regards, Simon On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 5:19 PM, Michuki Mwangi via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 3:51 PM, Kennedy Aseda via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Multi-vendor should not just be ignored. Implementation of the standards at software level is not always standard or complete based on my own experience and experience of others I know.
+1.
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On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 3:38 PM, Francis Kamau via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
ISIS is preferred due to its simplicity, I know of two reasons;
1. ISIS does not use IPV4 address family - Even if your ISIS Address is wrong, it will still work. OSPF will complain in such a situation.
the default use of IS-IS is not IP based compared to OSPF which is IP based. That is no excuse for using wrong addressing, because if you do your MPLS, iBGP and eBGP won't work well either.
2. In a FLAT (Single Area) network ISIS can handle hundreds of routers while OSPF will struggle at 80-90 routers.
Ok this is a first. Do you mean 90 routers in your Area 0 or as a whole i.e. including other OSPF areas. If you understand how LSA's work, you will realize that a network that uses OSPF Areas does a better job of managing LSA's compared to a flat L1/L2 IS-IS.
If you are using OSPF as your IGP in an MPLS network, you can imagine the issues that might come up with the ABRs and ASBRs in a multi-area setup.
You need to clarify what you mean. Not all LSA's are sent across between the ABR's and the ASBR's. Plus there are many ways of optimizing LSA's on OSPF
Guys - please avoid mentioning multi-vendor - both are standard protocols.
They are both standards agreed. But you are forgetting one thing, vendors don't share a development team. So considering that there are two distinctively different group of people read one document and produce running code - their interpretation and implementation of the standard will have slight differences. Also for business reasons not all features may be supported at various release levels. You perhaps need to experience this to better understand it. Michuki.
On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 8:27 AM, Stephen Munguti <kamitu.sm@gmail.com> wrote:
You should ask yourself why trill uses ISIS
Actually i had not and now that you bring this into perspective 1. How many vendors support TRILL ? 2. What are the practical use cases in our market. Going back to the original question. What is the preference IS-IS or OSPF. As i mentioned earlier at the moment the IGP in use by most networks in our region, with the exception of some networks i know in South Africa, SEACOM and Liquid, is largely due to the technical teams preference over current feature set implementation requirements. But i could be wrong am only basis this from my experience interacting with operators. This goes to say that, for smaller to medium sized networks operating in multi-vendor environments, OSPF is more likely to be their preference for interoperability and avoiding to run two different IGPs. However, for large networks IS-IS is more common, largely because they operate a single vendor or compatible dual-vendor environment. The interoperability between vendors tends to occasionally suffer from regression bugs - but most of these large operators have a lab thats are the size of many medium size networks. Therefore, lab testing tends to catch some of the issues well before production deployment. FYI and to answer your earlier question SEACOM are running a BGP free core which runs entirely on IS-IS and MPLS. They have specific use cases and you may want to speak to Mark Tinka or Simon Mayoye about their IS-IS implementation. Have a great day.
participants (14)
-
Alex Watila -
Dan Wanjohi -
Denis G. Wahome -
Francis Kamau -
James Njoroge -
Kennedy Aseda -
Mark Mwangi -
Michael Bullut -
Michuki Mwangi -
Odhiambo Washington -
Peter Karunyu -
simon mayoye -
Stephen Munguti -
Thuo Wilson