Do you think importers/sellers of import cars pocket mega profits?
I think so, maybe they should come to IT! What margins are they working on : 20-40%? What about local dealer companies? Here's a catch : import cars varying with grade levels and can also be purchased from auction sites. Prices will vary. A simple example of prices : https://www.papera.com/ Those of us who started with the internet in 95 onwards remember when people used to offer " Internet pictures " of cars and did the imports! Yet, anyone in KE can import. Are such internet businesses still around today? If so, then the ICT gap has not shrunk nor has it been widely accepted... Me thots... :-) -- "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses." - Henry Ford
They will not be in business if they weren't, look at this scenario, This guys get a toyota vitz from japan or Thailand or wherever at 3000 USD i.e cost freight and insurance, and then they apy 16% vat of the value of which kra will decide (they are usually businesss alies and they give them very good rates I suspect 6%) plus other charges which makes a toal of around 60% of its original cost hence the car will cost 4800 USD and then they will sell it at 7300 USD a profit of 2500 USD another vehicle they still hire those cars awaiting sell at arate of 1500 KEs perday????? On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 2:39 PM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
I think so, maybe they should come to IT! What margins are they working on : 20-40%? What about local dealer companies?
Here's a catch : import cars varying with grade levels and can also be purchased from auction sites. Prices will vary. A simple example of prices : https://www.papera.com/
Those of us who started with the internet in 95 onwards remember when people used to offer " Internet pictures " of cars and did the imports! Yet, anyone in KE can import. Are such internet businesses still around today? If so, then the ICT gap has not shrunk nor has it been widely accepted...
Me thots... :-)
-- "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses." - Henry Ford
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On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 2:53 PM, Calvin Omari <calvinebarongo@gmail.com>wrote:
They will not be in business if they weren't, look at this scenario, This guys get a toyota vitz from japan or Thailand or wherever at 3000 USD i.e cost freight and insurance, and then they apy 16% vat of the value of which kra will decide (they are usually businesss alies and they give them very good rates I suspect 6%) plus other charges which makes a toal of around 60% of its original cost hence the car will cost 4800 USD and then they will sell it at 7300 USD a profit of 2500 USD another vehicle they still hire those cars awaiting sell at arate of 1500 KEs perday?????
@Calvin, you right. So that Toyota Vitz has gone up by 40-60% ? Hmmm... but why would they not be in business if they sold cars cheaper, made less but worked on turn-over numbers to get realistic profits? I've got to dig more into this car thing. Wacha mambo za ICT, ati programming, ati closed source na open source na kadhalika...... Meaning on a freelance basis, one could sell 2 cars a month and cleanly get 250,000/-, less ofcourse some minor expenses? Interesting prospectives...
And you wonder why all the available pieces of land next to major Nairobi roads are being converted into car bazaars? I know somebody who spent 900k on a vehicle and sold it for 1.6M!!! Mainly cause of the color:-) Off course this was a one off but ....an apple never falls far away from the tree. On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 3:15 PM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 2:53 PM, Calvin Omari <calvinebarongo@gmail.com>wrote:
They will not be in business if they weren't, look at this scenario, This guys get a toyota vitz from japan or Thailand or wherever at 3000 USD i.e cost freight and insurance, and then they apy 16% vat of the value of which kra will decide (they are usually businesss alies and they give them very good rates I suspect 6%) plus other charges which makes a toal of around 60% of its original cost hence the car will cost 4800 USD and then they will sell it at 7300 USD a profit of 2500 USD another vehicle they still hire those cars awaiting sell at arate of 1500 KEs perday?????
@Calvin, you right. So that Toyota Vitz has gone up by 40-60% ? Hmmm... but why would they not be in business if they sold cars cheaper, made less but worked on turn-over numbers to get realistic profits? I've got to dig more into this car thing. Wacha mambo za ICT, ati programming, ati closed source na open source na kadhalika...... Meaning on a freelance basis, one could sell 2 cars a month and cleanly get 250,000/-, less ofcourse some minor expenses? Interesting prospectives...
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On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 6:41 PM, John Doe <fivepings@gmail.com> wrote:
And you wonder why all the available pieces of land next to major Nairobi roads are being converted into car bazaars? I know somebody who spent 900k on a vehicle and sold it for 1.6M!!! Mainly cause of the color:-) Off course this was a one off but ....an apple never falls far away from the tree.
I hope that apple is not too far..... btw I talked to a few friends who do the business and they want to change to ICT! They say it is a nightmare, cars get dented while shipping, delays and things hardly go as planned and sometimes, like recently, KRA increased duties on eg subaru between 50-75k and they got stuck with clients cars and big arguments. However, they could not explain why the markups are that high, seems people either have the money to spend or are not well versed with the internet. Eesshhh, luckily for us, we have a passion for tech. The grass is not always green on the other side, gentlemen and ladies.. :-)))))) Maybe later this year I try to import one and see how it goes or get those "internet agents" to order one. lol!...internet agents. lolest!
2010/1/19 aki <aki275@googlemail.com>
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 6:41 PM, John Doe <fivepings@gmail.com> wrote:
And you wonder why all the available pieces of land next to major Nairobi roads are being converted into car bazaars? I know somebody who spent 900k on a vehicle and sold it for 1.6M!!! Mainly cause of the color:-) Off course this was a one off but ....an apple never falls far away from the tree.
Maybe later this year I try to import one and see how it goes or get those "internet agents" to order one. lol!...internet agents. lolest!
Maybe that wouldn't be the best thing to do. Remember that KTN programme on collusion between KRA and agents??!
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Speaking out of experience in importing cars you will save a minimum of 100K if you import a car yourselves after following all the KRA procedures, paying all the duty, port handling charges and registration. What we should realize though is that the car dealers are able to import cars at very low prices as they get the overused cars or those with defaults (dents) which they later fix from Kenya at a very low price therefore getting very high margins. Some of the cars we buy locally undergo panel beating and repainting in Kenya before they are displayed at the Bazaars. These dealers are also able to reverse/reduce the car mileage to make you think that the car you're buying from them is almost new. Those intending to import should go ahead and import as its very easy... all you need is a good and trustworthy clearing agent and patience (around 2 months) if importing from Japan. Also make sure you deal with reknown Japan dealers www.papera.com www.sayuri.co.jp www.ibcjapan.co.jp www.autorec.co.jp aving imported cars Solomon Mburu Kamau wrote:
2010/1/19 aki <aki275@googlemail.com <mailto:aki275@googlemail.com>>
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 6:41 PM, John Doe <fivepings@gmail.com <mailto:fivepings@gmail.com>> wrote:
And you wonder why all the available pieces of land next to major Nairobi roads are being converted into car bazaars? I know somebody who spent 900k on a vehicle and sold it for 1.6M!!! Mainly cause of the color:-) Off course this was a one off but ....an apple never falls far away from the tree.
Maybe later this year I try to import one and see how it goes or get those "internet agents" to order one. lol!...internet agents. lolest!
Maybe that wouldn't be the best thing to do. Remember that KTN programme on collusion between KRA and agents??!
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-- Solomon Mbũrũ Kamau P.O. Box 19343 - 00202 Nairobi Cell: (+254-0) 735 431041
Man is a gregarious animal and enjoys agreement as cows will graze all the same way to the side of a hill!
AND
It is better to die in dignity than in the ignomity of ambiguous generosity!
http://dawn-in-kenya.blogspot.com http://smiley2.wordpress.com http://mburu.sikika.co.ke
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Well I also want to import a toyota ist, before the end of the year, am not sure who to deal ( I have subscribed with ibcjapan close to 4 years) with but I wish to save the 100k for a macbook ...may be, Currently they go at 650k roughly in kenya, coz of its funky shape, naway the different between the ist and the vits is the body shape the torque, chassis ant the major specs are all the same, The worry is when I am importing is the risk worthy One other thing when the cars arrive at the prot they are usually ripped of the necessary e.g navigation, original tv and radio, the odometer is changed and so many tricks done to maximise from the car Cheers Techies On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 8:47 AM, James Kagwe <kagwejg@gmail.com> wrote:
Speaking out of experience in importing cars you will save a minimum of 100K if you import a car yourselves after following all the KRA procedures, paying all the duty, port handling charges and registration. What we should realize though is that the car dealers are able to import cars at very low prices as they get the overused cars or those with defaults (dents) which they later fix from Kenya at a very low price therefore getting very high margins. Some of the cars we buy locally undergo panel beating and repainting in Kenya before they are displayed at the Bazaars. These dealers are also able to reverse/reduce the car mileage to make you think that the car you're buying from them is almost new.
Those intending to import should go ahead and import as its very easy... all you need is a good and trustworthy clearing agent and patience (around 2 months) if importing from Japan. Also make sure you deal with reknown Japan dealers www.papera.com www.sayuri.co.jp www.ibcjapan.co.jp www.autorec.co.jp
aving imported cars Solomon Mburu Kamau wrote:
2010/1/19 aki <aki275@googlemail.com <mailto:aki275@googlemail.com>>
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 6:41 PM, John Doe <fivepings@gmail.com <mailto:fivepings@gmail.com>> wrote:
And you wonder why all the available pieces of land next to major Nairobi roads are being converted into car bazaars? I know somebody who spent 900k on a vehicle and sold it for 1.6M!!! Mainly cause of the color:-) Off course this was a one off but ....an apple never falls far away from the tree.
Maybe later this year I try to import one and see how it goes or get those "internet agents" to order one. lol!...internet agents. lolest!
Maybe that wouldn't be the best thing to do. Remember that KTN programme on collusion between KRA and agents??!
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-- Solomon Mbũrũ Kamau P.O. Box 19343 - 00202 Nairobi Cell: (+254-0) 735 431041
Man is a gregarious animal and enjoys agreement as cows will graze all the same way to the side of a hill!
AND
It is better to die in dignity than in the ignomity of ambiguous generosity!
http://dawn-in-kenya.blogspot.com http://smiley2.wordpress.com http://mburu.sikika.co.ke
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-- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate, but that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us. Calvin Omari Systems Developer/Designer http://www.facebook.com/barongo
On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 8:47 AM, James Kagwe <kagwejg@gmail.com> wrote:
Speaking out of experience in importing cars you will save a minimum of 100K if you import a car yourselves after following all the KRA procedures, paying all the duty, port handling charges and registration. What we should realize though is that the car dealers are able to import cars at very low prices as they get the overused cars or those with defaults (dents) which they later fix from Kenya at a very low price therefore getting very high margins. Some of the cars we buy locally undergo panel beating and repainting in Kenya before they are displayed at the Bazaars. These dealers
Wrong again. Unless you're importing from SA or Singapore. Japan have very strict conditions for cars based on the destination country. The car must be inspected by JAAI and a certificate of roadworthiness issued, that ensures your car conforms to KeBS standards. If a car comes in as a junk, it was most probably for transit and then got diverted into the local market - which is illegal. Look at some cars destined for UG and you'll see what I mean.
are also able to reverse/reduce the car mileage to make you think that the car you're buying from them is almost new.
True, that does happen.
Those intending to import should go ahead and import as its very easy... all you need is a good and trustworthy clearing agent and patience (around 2 months) if importing from Japan. Also make sure you deal with reknown Japan dealers
True, again. Some of the companies you've mentioned have local agents as well, so you get quite a good deal. BR, S -- Sent from my socks®
@Calvin, Wrong! The cars arrive atthe port and are no longer ripped apart (is that what you said). This has been largely curbed because the KRA guys went and acquired privately run container freight stations and of course none of them wants to have a tarnished reputation. They all try hard to keep a clean record with KRA since they want to keep getting business [D.Buria] [254 722 630 560] [254 733 566 340] 2010/1/20 Steve Muchai <smuchai@gmail.com>
On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 8:47 AM, James Kagwe <kagwejg@gmail.com> wrote:
Speaking out of experience in importing cars you will save a minimum of 100K if you import a car yourselves after following all the KRA procedures, paying all the duty, port handling charges and registration. What we should realize though is that the car dealers are able to import cars at very low prices as they get the overused cars or those with defaults (dents) which they later fix from Kenya at a very low price therefore getting very high margins. Some of the cars we buy locally undergo panel beating and repainting in Kenya before they are displayed at the Bazaars. These dealers
Wrong again. Unless you're importing from SA or Singapore. Japan have very strict conditions for cars based on the destination country. The car must be inspected by JAAI and a certificate of roadworthiness issued, that ensures your car conforms to KeBS standards. If a car comes in as a junk, it was most probably for transit and then got diverted into the local market - which is illegal. Look at some cars destined for UG and you'll see what I mean.
are also able to reverse/reduce the car mileage to make you think that the car you're buying from them is almost new.
True, that does happen.
Those intending to import should go ahead and import as its very easy... all you need is a good and trustworthy clearing agent and patience (around 2 months) if importing from Japan. Also make sure you deal with reknown Japan dealers
True, again. Some of the companies you've mentioned have local agents as well, so you get quite a good deal.
BR, S
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On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 10:03 AM, [dan buria] <dimbega@gmail.com> wrote:
@Calvin,
Wrong!
The cars arrive atthe port and are no longer ripped apart (is that what you said). This has been largely curbed because the KRA guys went and acquired
Well, some few cases do pop up here and there. Invariably the rip-off occurs between the port and the inland container depot. So if your clearing agent is chap chap, they verify the car details when the shipping line is handing it over to KPA, then you're safe. BR, S
On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 9:58 AM, Steve Muchai <smuchai@gmail.com> wrote:
True, again. Some of the companies you've mentioned have local agents as well, so you get quite a good deal.
@Steve, thnks for the info. Any recommendations on the local agents? And also any idea on what markups they make since they are providing brokerage services? It would help. :-) Lets bust this car imports myths! Cheers.
@aki: I think most people who buy in Nairobi instead of importing do it with the full knowledge that they're being ripped off, but they prefer that to the high risks of worrying about the safety and condition of their vehicle while waiting for them to cross the ocean and pirates to reach them. My thoughts On 1/19/10, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 6:41 PM, John Doe <fivepings@gmail.com> wrote:
And you wonder why all the available pieces of land next to major Nairobi roads are being converted into car bazaars? I know somebody who spent 900k on a vehicle and sold it for 1.6M!!! Mainly cause of the color:-) Off course this was a one off but ....an apple never falls far away from the tree.
I hope that apple is not too far..... btw I talked to a few friends who do the business and they want to change to ICT! They say it is a nightmare, cars get dented while shipping, delays and things hardly go as planned and sometimes, like recently, KRA increased duties on eg subaru between 50-75k and they got stuck with clients cars and big arguments. However, they could not explain why the markups are that high, seems people either have the money to spend or are not well versed with the internet.
Eesshhh, luckily for us, we have a passion for tech. The grass is not always green on the other side, gentlemen and ladies.. :-))))))
Maybe later this year I try to import one and see how it goes or get those "internet agents" to order one. lol!...internet agents. lolest!
-- Sent from my mobile device -- Ngũgĩ Kĩmani Fundi wa Mitambo
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 2:53 PM, Calvin Omari <calvinebarongo@gmail.com> wrote:
They will not be in business if they weren't, look at this scenario, This guys get a toyota vitz from japan or Thailand or wherever at 3000 USD i.e cost freight and insurance, and then they apy 16% vat of the value of which kra will decide (they are usually businesss alies and they give them very good rates I suspect 6%) plus other charges which makes a toal of around 60% of its original cost hence the car will cost 4800 USD and then they will sell it at 7300 USD a profit of 2500 USD another vehicle they still hire those cars awaiting sell at arate of 1500 KEs perday?????
It's not that simple. Taxation is not based on what you paid for the unit out there - anything could be written on the invoice. Heck, you could even get it for free. CIF is simply what you pay to get the car to the port. The actual Customs valuation is based on CRSP (Current ReSale Price) - value. It's a formula they use to determine the value of the car based on its specs and year of manufacture. They actually base their valuation on data from new-car dealers - basically if the vehicle was sold here new, what would it have cost? They take this value, depreciate it based on the age of the vehicle, and you have the customs valuation. Now add 16% VAT, then 20% excise duty, then 25% duty onto that. CRSP is roughly equivalent to what insurers use to determine the value of a vehicle too - you can't get comprehensive cover from any serious insurer without a valuation report. Another thing is that the importers do shield you from risk. Numerous people have been scammed - after sending money you can't ping the guy any more. Towards the end of the year is also tricky - they could send you a unit that's just going to be over the age limit by the time it lands - and you pay penalties - worse, get the car impounded. Remember the Interpol swoop where they netted dozens of units which were stolen out there then shipped here via Singapore? Then there's the pirates as well. BR, S -- Sent from my socks®
@Steve, @Kimani. Gentlemen thnks for the inputs. I'll add my novice opinion. I think it is a viable option that Kenyans should import their own cars. Heck, if you are saving around Ksh 100,000/- on a simple Toyota Vitz, then the risks become secondary. Regarding the pirate risks, I can only assume that the importers do not get special treatment by the shippers i.e there is no Navy Frigate that escorts their vehicle consignments when the shipments are in the high seas or the vehicles would cost much more. It is interesting that I also got that info about pirate risks. I hear there are 2 shipping companies. One is express while the other has many stops thus shipments get here within 30-60 days. What about when the cars land in mombasa port? What happens then, registration, duties etc? Anyone done an import and can share some insights. :-)
participants (8)
-
[dan buria] -
aki -
Calvin Omari -
James Kagwe -
John Doe -
Ngũgĩ Kĩmani -
Solomon Mburu Kamau -
Steve Muchai