Their chairman uses a Mac at home... http://read.bi/w1wUfs. For a company that fired the former CEO for suggesting a shutdown of the unit, this is awfully hypocritical. I wouldn't buy a computer from a company that would not eat it's own dog food... -- Regards, Phares Kaboro Kariuki
I like the dog food bit, in fact HP might be one of those ......... * * *Kind regards,* * * *WAMBUGU Nick* On 21 November 2011 21:14, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Their chairman uses a Mac at home... http://read.bi/w1wUfs. For a company that fired the former CEO for suggesting a shutdown of the unit, this is awfully hypocritical. I wouldn't buy a computer from a company that would not eat it's own dog food... --
Regards,
Phares Kaboro Kariuki _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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Phares, I think the idea of using your competitor product MAY not be a bad one IF you are aware and have a reason for that! Going public with it is another story of course! On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 9:25 PM, Nick Wambugu <nick.wambugu@gmail.com>wrote:
I like the dog food bit, in fact HP might be one of those .........
* * *Kind regards,* * * *WAMBUGU Nick*
On 21 November 2011 21:14, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Their chairman uses a Mac at home... http://read.bi/w1wUfs. For a company that fired the former CEO for suggesting a shutdown of the unit, this is awfully hypocritical. I wouldn't buy a computer from a company that would not eat it's own dog food... --
Regards,
Phares Kaboro Kariuki _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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Love it or hate The Mac is a great piece of hardware. There's a reason Apple is the largest company in the world. Heck it has more ardent following than Windoz ;-) Regards David K On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 9:14 PM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Their chairman uses a Mac at home... http://read.bi/w1wUfs. For a company that fired the former CEO for suggesting a shutdown of the unit, this is awfully hypocritical. I wouldn't buy a computer from a company that would not eat it's own dog food... --
Regards,
Phares Kaboro Kariuki _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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-- [Asentric Consulting Ltd] http://shutterdiplomacy.wordpress.com I ask not for a lighter burden, but for broader shoulders. -Jewish proverb
On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 9:14 PM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Their chairman uses a Mac at home... http://read.bi/w1wUfs. For a company that fired the former CEO for suggesting a shutdown of the unit, this is awfully hypocritical. I wouldn't buy a computer from a company that would not eat it's own dog food... --
Regards,
Phares Kaboro Kariuki
Hahaha! Nice try @Phares, fortunately the PC market is not tied to one manufacturer. You will need to try much much harder to get anyone to illict any emotions such as those found on the most propreitary system on earth ( Guess which one? Yes that one that scratches easily ). :-))))) But it cannot be compared to the filth that has taken place since almost 15 years now in the software industry. Young programmers from schools and universities abroad are being deceived and lured into anti-corporate views so that their coding can be published as free, but then later used as a proprietary practises when it comes to business. Forget hardware, the real evil is the this, like the Doctor wrote. Shocking that even Linus really reverse engineered the Unix Kernel, did not really do anything innovative: CoderA : few lines ( inspiration anti-corporate ) CoderB : few lines ( inspiration anti-corporate ) CoderC: few lines ( inspiration anti-corporate ) Open to the members of the public to use. No commercial aspect but consumer gain Reverse engineer existing successful softwares, lack of innovation New CoderA: few lines ( ( inspiration anti-corporate ) New CoderB : few lines ( inspiration anti-corporate ) New CodeC: few lines ( inspiration anti-corporate ) Open to the members of the public to use. No commercial aspect but consumer gain *Community formed :* Distant CoderA is a Free-be, looking at making quick money : Looking to create business/market share from others free work ( Takes the work of original CoderA, B,C & New CoderA,B,C ) . Adds a few more lines for it to look different, must ensure he does not share it back because of competition on the same. This is the trap. Now all the code becomes a commerce entity and defates the origin of the entire process. If CoderA,B,C investigated what ever happened to their work and how it is being used, they would sue in most cases. There is evil, and then there is THIS evil. Rgds. -- **Sent from my Microsoft/Intel based computer. Affordable & reliable computing for Decades**
I am beginning to think Microsoft is Open Source, courtesy of Aki. -- with Regards: blog.denniskioko.com <http://www.denniskioko.com/>
Dennis, You will need to go back to the origin on Microsoft....shortly after they sold DOS to IBM and just before IBM launched......the rest, as they say, is history! On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 6:26 AM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
I am beginning to think Microsoft is Open Source, courtesy of Aki.
-- with Regards:
blog.denniskioko.com <http://www.denniskioko.com/>
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@Dennis, to be fair propreitary software companies have nothing to with the filth and pillaging that other so called platforms have done. I can understand the hippie culture and freedoms, but the rape of the software industry under the disguise of freedoms by deceiviing young software developers into thinking anti-capitalistic and anti-corporate view and then not only preventing sharing but pracising the same principles of commerce that are common to propreitary is the most pathectic of the order of greed. Don't take my word for it, look deeper. I'd write code anyday on M$ & MAC and if it made money, well ang good. Am actually quite happy that the discussion took place, now it is time for other develoeprs to face up to what they should have known a long time ago, i.e. if they are developers at all in the first place and not code thieves in that context of the discussion. Well done to all the frameworks and languages out there, you have given choices that are welcome to this industry. Rgds. :-) On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 6:26 AM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
I am beginning to think Microsoft is Open Source, courtesy of Aki.
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 7:22 AM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
@Dennis, to be fair propreitary software companies have nothing to with the filth and pillaging that other so called platforms have done. I can understand the hippie culture and freedoms, but the rape of the software industry under the disguise of freedoms by deceiviing young software developers into thinking anti-capitalistic and anti-corporate view and then not only preventing sharing but pracising the same principles of commerce that are common to propreitary is the most pathectic of the order of greed. Don't take my word for it, look deeper. I'd write code anyday on M$ & MAC and if it made money, well ang good. Am actually quite happy that the discussion took place, now it is time for other develoeprs to face up to what they should have known a long time ago, i.e. if they are developers at all in the first place and not code thieves in that context of the discussion. Well done to all the frameworks and languages out there, you have given choices that are welcome to this industry.
Rgds. :-)
You talk a lot about developers, and seem to be ignoring end users. Guys such as the Free Software Foundation advocate for the freedoms of software *users* (including developers in their capacity as users, of course). As far as they're concerned, if you as a developer cannot figure out a way to develop and distribute software without trampling of the freedoms of users, then you should probably look for a different trade. Joseph.
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Joseph Wayodi <jwayodi@gmail.com> wrote:
You talk a lot about developers, and seem to be ignoring end users. Guys such as the Free Software Foundation advocate for the freedoms of software *users* (including developers in their capacity as users, of course). As far as they're concerned, if you as a developer cannot figure out a way to develop and distribute software without trampling of the freedoms of users, then you should probably look for a different trade.
Joseph.
@Joseph, this has now become *my motto:*
* If I ever wrote code that was a system for the better of consumer freedoms or choice, I'd rather create the complete system with a team of similar people who share views than give out a single line the code to code thiefs who will use it to defeat the principles of the freedom and choices*. Ps: (Code thieves is used in the context of this discussion and does not include those real coders)
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
@Joseph, this has now become *my motto:*
* If I ever wrote code that was a system for the better of consumer freedoms or choice, I'd rather create the complete system with a team of similar people who share views than give out a single line the code to code thiefs who will use it to defeat the principles of the freedom and choices*.
Ps: (Code thieves is used in the context of this discussion and does not include those real coders)
That's what copyleft licenses such as the GPLs let you do. They require users of your software to distribute any changes they make (if they distribute them) under the same terms. Of course, enforcing the license in case of violation (if you can even find out about it) is another matter. But these "code thieves", as you call them, mostly use software under more permissive licences. A few who have violated the GPL have been called out in the past: <http://www.google.co.ke/search?q=gpl+violations> and < http://www.google.co.ke/search?q=gpl+enforcement>. Joseph.
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Joseph Wayodi <jwayodi@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
@Joseph, this has now become *my motto:*
* If I ever wrote code that was a system for the better of consumer freedoms or choice, I'd rather create the complete system with a team of similar people who share views than give out a single line the code to code thiefs who will use it to defeat the principles of the freedom and choices*.
Ps: (Code thieves is used in the context of this discussion and does not include those real coders)
That's what copyleft licenses such as the GPLs let you do. They require users of your software to distribute any changes they make (if they distribute them) under the same terms. Of course, enforcing the license in case of violation (if you can even find out about it) is another matter.
But these "code thieves", as you call them, mostly use software under more permissive licences. A few who have violated the GPL have been called out in the past: <http://www.google.co.ke/search?q=gpl+violations> and < http://www.google.co.ke/search?q=gpl+enforcement>.
Joseph.
@Joseph, under my personal view motto and hopefully applied one day when code get serious enough, don't need any GPL/BSD/MIT license exploits to allow permission. The permissions granted will be the the non-coder users ( the real users = consumers/gerenal public ) of the system. No need for complex and loop holes to exploit anything. my view. :-)
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:20 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
@Joseph, under my personal view motto and hopefully applied one day when code get serious enough, don't need any GPL/BSD/MIT license exploits to allow permission. The permissions granted will be the the non-coder users ( the real users = consumers/gerenal public ) of the system. No need for complex and loop holes to exploit anything.
if i give you a book and tell you that you may read the book, write your own notes on it and use and change what is written in it in anyway you please just as long as you make a note that i was the one who gave you the book -- would you be stealing the book from me ?
@Ashok, this has now become my motto: * If I ever wrote code that was a system for the better of consumer freedoms or choice, I'd rather create the complete system with a team of similar people who share views than give out a single line the code to code thiefs who will use it to defeat the principles of the freedom and choices*. Ps: (Code thieves is used in the context of this discussion and does not include those real coders) Why should the above upset you? We need to move on. Rgds.
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:20 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
@Joseph, under my personal view motto and hopefully applied one day when code get serious enough, don't need any GPL/BSD/MIT license exploits to allow permission. The permissions granted will be the the non-coder users ( the real users = consumers/gerenal public ) of the system. No need for complex and loop holes to exploit anything.
my view. :-)
Do you mean you won't allow modifications to your code at all? How will that be good for your users? Don't forget that users will at some point desire to change the code. Like I said, I think you're missing the point. You seem to be stuck thinking about yourself as a developer, and are not thinking about what's good for your users. Joseph.
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 2:23 PM, Joseph Wayodi <jwayodi@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:20 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
@Joseph, under my personal view motto and hopefully applied one day when code get serious enough, don't need any GPL/BSD/MIT license exploits to allow permission. The permissions granted will be the the non-coder users ( the real users = consumers/gerenal public ) of the system. No need for complex and loop holes to exploit anything.
my view. :-)
Do you mean you won't allow modifications to your code at all? How will that be good for your users? Don't forget that users will at some point desire to change the code.
Like I said, I think you're missing the point. You seem to be stuck thinking about yourself as a developer, and are not thinking about what's good for your users.
Joseph.
@Joseph, thnks. What would be the inter-action between the motto and the general public to improve on code and functionality? Traditional this is done via feedback on any system that needs improvement with the general public, the mechanism would be there to take in the proposed changes. Again, my motto says that like minded people who share similar views, so the code community would have to collectively achieve the end result of any proposed changes. But no member of the public will have access to the code, that will never happen.
Rgds.
The truth remains that for a company the size of apple, exploiting BSD licensed software is a shameful act. The bastards. _______________________________________________ *Good judgement comes from Experience.* *Most of that comes from Bad Judgement.* _______________________________________________ * * 2011/11/22 Joseph Wayodi <jwayodi@gmail.com>
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 2:50 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
...
But no member of the public will have access to the code, that will never happen.
Okay, this is clear enough.
Joseph.
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James, I am not sure what the issue is with you and Apple. You must know that Apple wasn't always the size of Apple, they have just grown from near bankruptcy in the 90s to the large company they are today. Who has stopped any other company from using the BSD licences to create and market their unique products? All I know is that all large companies including IBM and HP use some form of open source licences in their proprietary products. You can say whatever you want about Apple, but to be the largest company in the world by market capitalization, they must be doing something right that you, Dell or even HP are not doing. Good day James.
@James - your opinion is now becoming boring! ./Ok3ch On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 9:25 AM, Philip Musyoki <pmusyoki@gmail.com> wrote:
James,
I am not sure what the issue is with you and Apple.
You must know that Apple wasn't always the size of Apple, they have just grown from near bankruptcy in the 90s to the large company they are today.
Who has stopped any other company from using the BSD licences to create and market their unique products? All I know is that all large companies including IBM and HP use some form of open source licences in their proprietary products.
You can say whatever you want about Apple, but to be the largest company in the world by market capitalization, they must be doing something right that you, Dell or even HP are not doing.
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On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 7:22 AM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
@Dennis, to be fair propreitary software companies have nothing to with the filth and pillaging that other so called platforms have done. I can understand the hippie culture and freedoms, but the rape of the software industry under the disguise of freedoms by deceiviing young software developers into thinking anti-capitalistic and anti-corporate view and then not only preventing sharing but pracising the same principles of commerce that are common to propreitary is the most pathectic of the order of greed.
you do have a habit of making sweeping generalizations to comical effect (how come you missed using the word "genocide" ? ) . here you are mixing "political ideology" (anti-capitalism, anti-corporatism) and "a method of licensing software" in a way that is hard to comprehend. going by your logic -- all open source software should have come out of the soviet union and communist china.
Don't take my word for it, look deeper. I'd write code anyday on M$ & MAC and if it made money, well ang good.
you should write code and make money then.
@Aki, My point was simply that the worlds largest PC manufacturer has it's Chairman using not a HP or Dell or Lenovo or Samsung, but a Mac... Says a lot... To be honest, I wish there was an equivalent to the Android OS in the Desktop OS space. You need to have the cash to scale out. Linux is currently like Open Moko. A lot of innovation and potential that never comes through... Perhaps Google should have invested heavily in Ubuntu as an OS and customizing it, arranging OEM agreements etc. On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:01 AM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 9:14 PM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com>wrote:
Their chairman uses a Mac at home... http://read.bi/w1wUfs. For a company that fired the former CEO for suggesting a shutdown of the unit, this is awfully hypocritical. I wouldn't buy a computer from a company that would not eat it's own dog food... --
Regards,
Phares Kaboro Kariuki
Hahaha! Nice try @Phares, fortunately the PC market is not tied to one manufacturer. You will need to try much much harder to get anyone to illict any emotions such as those found on the most propreitary system on earth ( Guess which one? Yes that one that scratches easily ). :-)))))
But it cannot be compared to the filth that has taken place since almost 15 years now in the software industry. Young programmers from schools and universities abroad are being deceived and lured into anti-corporate views so that their coding can be published as free, but then later used as a proprietary practises when it comes to business. Forget hardware, the real evil is the this, like the Doctor wrote. Shocking that even Linus really reverse engineered the Unix Kernel, did not really do anything innovative:
CoderA : few lines ( inspiration anti-corporate ) CoderB : few lines ( inspiration anti-corporate ) CoderC: few lines ( inspiration anti-corporate )
Open to the members of the public to use. No commercial aspect but consumer gain
Reverse engineer existing successful softwares, lack of innovation
New CoderA: few lines ( ( inspiration anti-corporate ) New CoderB : few lines ( inspiration anti-corporate ) New CodeC: few lines ( inspiration anti-corporate )
Open to the members of the public to use. No commercial aspect but consumer gain
*Community formed :*
Distant CoderA is a Free-be, looking at making quick money : Looking to create business/market share from others free work ( Takes the work of original CoderA, B,C & New CoderA,B,C ) . Adds a few more lines for it to look different, must ensure he does not share it back because of competition on the same. This is the trap. Now all the code becomes a commerce entity and defates the origin of the entire process.
If CoderA,B,C investigated what ever happened to their work and how it is being used, they would sue in most cases. There is evil, and then there is THIS evil.
Rgds.
--
**Sent from my Microsoft/Intel based computer. Affordable & reliable computing for Decades**
-- Warm Regards, Phares Kaboro Kariuki
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 8:04 AM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
@Aki,
My point was simply that the worlds largest PC manufacturer has it's Chairman using not a HP or Dell or Lenovo or Samsung, but a Mac... Says a lot...
To be honest, I wish there was an equivalent to the Android OS in the Desktop OS space. You need to have the cash to scale out. Linux is currently like Open Moko. A lot of innovation and potential that never comes through... Perhaps Google should have invested heavily in Ubuntu as an OS and customizing it, arranging OEM agreements etc.
--
@Phares, firstly I think Google Andriod is on the right track to move away from Open Source (correction welcome). And this should go for all major software companies out there, there is a dire need to reign in the madness and abuse in this industry. We need to have clear lines of the code market, proprietary and pure freedom. Pure freedom is the benefit for the consumer and should clearly not have any commerce practises that are evident in proprietary sectors, and the license should ensure that such are followed. So if anyone wants to write freedom software and feel they have a point to carry forward, this software can never be used for commercial gain because it is the consumer to benefit from this rights. Not a bunch of 3rd or 4th party code thieves turning the freedom software into some sort of business avenues thus abusing the fundamental goals of consumer gain and choices. Google should also not do down the road of using an Open Source methodology. The worldwide economies are heading differently, no one can sustain such a project for long. They should be looking at creating proprietary systems that are afforadbale to the masses in many countries. iPhone does not hold the market segment in Kenya, Nokia does. Some thots. **Sent from my Microsoft/Intel based computer. Affordable & reliable computing for Decades**
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 8:04 AM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
To be honest, I wish there was an equivalent to the Android OS in the Desktop OS space. You need to have the cash to scale out. Linux is currently like Open Moko. A lot of innovation and potential that never comes through... Perhaps Google should have invested heavily in Ubuntu as an OS and customizing it, arranging OEM agreements etc.
Equating the state of linux on the desktop to OpenMoko is not a realistic argument. I think it depends a lot on what your "expectation" is out of a desktop. My father for example (who is 70+) has been running ubuntu on his old laptop for that last couple of years. He is not a "power" user by any measure, remember he is 70+ - email , wordprocessing, internet thats about it. In the 2 years he has also upgraded the OS himself once. Does he want fancy desktop animations ? Does he want full screen mode ? -- no. There is a large majority of users who just want to get things done, and a good linux desktop works just fine for them.
participants (12)
-
aki -
Ashok Hariharan -
ashok+skunkworks＠parliaments.info -
bernard kioko -
David Kiania | Asentric Consulting Ltd -
Dennis Kioko -
James Nzomo -
Joseph Wayodi -
Nick Wambugu -
Okechukwu -
Phares Kariuki -
Philip Musyoki