OT : Kenya's real estate boom fake or real?
I read various articles on the amount of new construction going on and this sector to me is quite baffling. I think the recent report by the CBK puts home mortgages at around 14,000 kenyans. Our borrowing bank interest rates and repayments are still too high compared to incomes. Where are people getting the money to buy/invest into real estate because everywhere you see, some new construction on residetial types is coming up and also being sold quite fast. Property prices have really shot up while earnings have not increased in comparison. So who is buying these expensive properties? Any economist here in skunks KE to add some insights. :-) Rgds.
once upon a time, a HR file erroneously sent out on an email...it contained the salaries of everyone in my Division...i realized not everyone is paid poorly like me :-) businesses have lots of cash...i met a guy who runs about 5 butcheries...he gets daily sales of 40k per day from one of them in Juja....i have really changed my opinion of business people ever since.... On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 8:52 AM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
I read various articles on the amount of new construction going on and this sector to me is quite baffling. I think the recent report by the CBK puts home mortgages at around 14,000 kenyans. Our borrowing bank interest rates and repayments are still too high compared to incomes. Where are people getting the money to buy/invest into real estate because everywhere you see, some new construction on residetial types is coming up and also being sold quite fast. Property prices have really shot up while earnings have not increased in comparison. So who is buying these expensive properties?
Any economist here in skunks KE to add some insights. :-)
Rgds.
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There are also proxy holding for people laundering money from businesses like Drugs et al, which as you have come to see, are "illegal" . Indian magnates have also been investing in real estate in the country. However, most of the money has been the $ 1 billion that the Treasury can't account for. An IBM executive , South African native once said, "Its crazy to pay rent of Kshs. 130 ,0000 a month for a fully furnished 1 bedroom in Westlands. There must be some unexplained money coming form somewhere for people to be ready to pay such rents. " South Africa has a stringent cash flow policy, and a sudden influx of cash in your bank account will lead to it been frozen, till you can explain how.
What are the indicators that the economy is booming because I don't see how? Fuel prices are still over 1USD/Litre ( actually on par with some very developed nations who have a better facilties and resources ), infrastructure is mostly private investments and the 1000Ksh note has little value in terms of purchasing power. The banks are still loaning at rates considered as high risk loans in other countries. So lets say the banks are behind the real estate boom but at the end of construction, the units have to be sold. Someone has to buy either cash outright or on mortgage loans. At the pace the units are being sold and at the high prices, the CBK report should have had quite a large figure of those who are on eg loans. This is not the case. As for diasporans, if they are investing, that is good but makes no investments sense. For the property prices they pay here, they could easily buy in a good location where they are and reap stable rental benefits. Even if the rentals are better here due to the presence of int'l community, that is no guarantee that it will remain so. Something is really amiss in the KE property market... Me thots Rgds.
Ok, to give you an idea on the situation. I recently went over to some place in Kitusuru that some person wanted consultancy on IT integration. The developments are not very old etc. Anyway, I got curious and asked the person what price did the units sell for? When I got the answer, I was completely taken back! Yes, A Million Dollars! WTF, I thought to myself.....who would pay such a price for a place that is more secured than a fort ( meaning people here are always worried about their security ), the roads leading to it are so dingy and pot-holed that you really would want a security escort late at night, there are no street lights for many miles, they have their own borehole ( because we have major water shortages since the 80s- I remember the chania project was supposed to alleviate the situation ) , there is no internet because the nearest fiber tap is about 10 kms away, the list is endless on what does not exist. I could not add the two together. Then on my recent trip to Cape Town, I went on some tour of some very best scenic bays in the world and where some hollywood stars own property. And property here was relatively as expensive as KE but you get some real good stuff worth of what you would invest. So if I had a Million USD to spend on a property, would it be Kitusuru or Cape town? I already have the answer. Going back to the thread, I've been following the various articles on KE scene, still makes no sense of what is going on. Me thots. Rgds
I think its a matter of demand and supply. Consider this, our population is increasing almost at the rate of 10 Million people every 10 years. All those people need to be housed. I also cant see why office rent in town is being increased at a time when we have so many new office blocks coming up all over. Evans On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 1:01 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
Ok, to give you an idea on the situation. I recently went over to some place in Kitusuru that some person wanted consultancy on IT integration. The developments are not very old etc. Anyway, I got curious and asked the person what price did the units sell for? When I got the answer, I was completely taken back! Yes, A Million Dollars! WTF, I thought to myself.....who would pay such a price for a place that is more secured than a fort ( meaning people here are always worried about their security ), the roads leading to it are so dingy and pot-holed that you really would want a security escort late at night, there are no street lights for many miles, they have their own borehole ( because we have major water shortages since the 80s- I remember the chania project was supposed to alleviate the situation ) , there is no internet because the nearest fiber tap is about 10 kms away, the list is endless on what does not exist. I could not add the two together. Then on my recent trip to Cape Town, I went on some tour of some very best scenic bays in the world and where some hollywood stars own property. And property here was relatively as expensive as KE but you get some real good stuff worth of what you would invest. So if I had a Million USD to spend on a property, would it be Kitusuru or Cape town? I already have the answer.
Going back to the thread, I've been following the various articles on KE scene, still makes no sense of what is going on.
Me thots.
Rgds
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On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 1:27 PM, Evans Ikua <ikua.evans@gmail.com> wrote:
I think its a matter of demand and supply. Consider this, our population is increasing almost at the rate of 10 Million people every 10 years. All those people need to be housed. I also cant see why office rent in town is being increased at a time when we have so many new office blocks coming up all over.
its demand and supply high on some strange cocktail of drugs -- because the commercial lending rate is 13%, and the economic growth rate is 2.x % -- essentially there is no economic boom. since the lending rate is so high more people are perhaps buying property cash down ? and the best example as has been pointed out -- the prices are simply ludicrous when you compare the prices to places of clearly better value and infrastrcuture.
@Evans, now you have raised even a more baffling question on commercial property. Because "decongestion" in the CBD is the magic word, though there does not exist tram/train infrastructure and kenyans will have to walk for miles on whether rain or sunshine, there is still vague talk on "decongestion". Yet while basic amenities like fire-fighting are passed over to landlords, it may explain the depth of the problem. Lets start with building elevators, do most work in the CBD buildings? Who maintains the footpaths and environs around buildings? Who maintains the clean-liness of the exterior of the building? We are in need of a serious economist on this thread to contribute. Rgds. On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 1:27 PM, Evans Ikua <ikua.evans@gmail.com> wrote:
I think its a matter of demand and supply. Consider this, our population is increasing almost at the rate of 10 Million people every 10 years. All those people need to be housed. I also cant see why office rent in town is being increased at a time when we have so many new office blocks coming up all over. Evans
@ Evans the fact that office rent increases while others are being brought up defeats the point, demand and supply. The population increase is more in the lower class level and rent in our slums is fairly constant. Houses in posh parts of the city are the ones with this crazy figures for rent. Or is living in expensive apartments the in-thing? My profiles: [image: Facebook]<http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#%21/profile.php?id=1272219139> [image: Blogger] <http://dutchezjuma.blogspot.com/> [image: Blogger]<http://technology-and-gadgets-in-kenya.blogspot.com/> [image: Twitter] <http://twitter.com/#%21/dutchezjuma> [image: MySpace]<http://www.myspace.com/dutchez8> Contact me: [image: Google Talk/] dutchez8@gmail.com [image: Skype/]danieljuma [image: Twitter] <http://twitter.com/dutchezjuma>twitter 25 Cool Geek Gifts - http://www.mostinspired.com/blog/2010/11/23/25-cool-geek-gifts/ Follow @dutchezjuma <http://twitter.com/dutchezjuma> <http://twitter.com/?status=@dutchezjuma%20&in_reply_to_status_id=9176275973316610&in_reply_to=dutchezjuma> Reply<http://twitter.com/?status=@dutchezjuma%20&in_reply_to_status_id=9176275973316610&in_reply_to=dutchezjuma> <http://twitter.com/?status=RT%20%40dutchezjuma%3A%2025%20Cool%20Geek%20Gifts%20-%20http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mostinspired.com%2Fblog%2F2010%2F11%2F23%2F25-cool-geek-gifts%2F> Retweet<http://twitter.com/?status=RT%20%40dutchezjuma%3A%2025%20Cool%20Geek%20Gifts%20-%20http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mostinspired.com%2Fblog%2F2010%2F11%2F23%2F25-cool-geek-gifts%2F> 12:26 Nov-29 <http://twitter.com/dutchezjuma/statuses/9176275973316610> Get this email app! <http://www.wisestamp.com/apps/twitter?utm_source=extension&utm_medium=email&utm_term=twitter&utm_campaign=apps> Signature powered by <http://www.wisestamp.com/email-install?utm_source=extension&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=footer> WiseStamp<http://www.wisestamp.com/email-install?utm_source=extension&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=footer> On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 1:27 PM, Evans Ikua <ikua.evans@gmail.com> wrote:
I think its a matter of demand and supply. Consider this, our population is increasing almost at the rate of 10 Million people every 10 years. All those people need to be housed. I also cant see why office rent in town is being increased at a time when we have so many new office blocks coming up all over. Evans
On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 1:01 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
Ok, to give you an idea on the situation. I recently went over to some place in Kitusuru that some person wanted consultancy on IT integration. The developments are not very old etc. Anyway, I got curious and asked the person what price did the units sell for? When I got the answer, I was completely taken back! Yes, A Million Dollars! WTF, I thought to myself.....who would pay such a price for a place that is more secured than a fort ( meaning people here are always worried about their security ), the roads leading to it are so dingy and pot-holed that you really would want a security escort late at night, there are no street lights for many miles, they have their own borehole ( because we have major water shortages since the 80s- I remember the chania project was supposed to alleviate the situation ) , there is no internet because the nearest fiber tap is about 10 kms away, the list is endless on what does not exist. I could not add the two together. Then on my recent trip to Cape Town, I went on some tour of some very best scenic bays in the world and where some hollywood stars own property. And property here was relatively as expensive as KE but you get some real good stuff worth of what you would invest. So if I had a Million USD to spend on a property, would it be Kitusuru or Cape town? I already have the answer.
Going back to the thread, I've been following the various articles on KE scene, still makes no sense of what is going on.
Me thots.
Rgds
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The high rents are an incentive for creation of more office space. If the rents were reducing, the rate of expansion would reduce, as other investment avenues would be more lucrative. As long as the economy keeps expanding, demand for office space inside the city will increase. With regard to high-end residential real estate, I am told that there's a distortion wrought of "foreign" money flowing into the country. This is quite hard to measure. But because of its relative "abundance", the owners tend to spend it more freely (which leads to inflated prices for lower quality products). I wish I had more time to analyze this... ________________________________ From: Evans Ikua <ikua.evans@gmail.com> To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Sent: Mon, November 29, 2010 4:27:54 AM Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] OT : Kenya's real estate boom fake or real? I think its a matter of demand and supply. Consider this, our population is increasing almost at the rate of 10 Million people every 10 years. All those people need to be housed. I also cant see why office rent in town is being increased at a time when we have so many new office blocks coming up all over. Evans On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 1:01 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote: Ok, to give you an idea on the situation. I recently went over to some place in Kitusuru that some person wanted consultancy on IT integration. The developments are not very old etc. Anyway, I got curious and asked the person what price did the units sell for? When I got the answer, I was completely taken back! Yes, A Million Dollars! WTF, I thought to myself.....who would pay such a price for a place that is more secured than a fort ( meaning people here are always worried about their security ), the roads leading to it are so dingy and pot-holed that you really would want a security escort late at night, there are no street lights for many miles, they have their own borehole ( because we have major water shortages since the 80s- I remember the chania project was supposed to alleviate the situation ) , there is no internet because the nearest fiber tap is about 10 kms away, the list is endless on what does not exist. I could not add the two together. Then on my recent trip to Cape Town, I went on some tour of some very best scenic bays in the world and where some hollywood stars own property. And property here was relatively as expensive as KE but you get some real good stuff worth of what you would invest. So if I had a Million USD to spend on a property, would it be Kitusuru or Cape town? I already have the answer.
Going back to the thread, I've been following the various articles on KE scene, still makes no sense of what is going on.
Me thots.
Rgds _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
@Aki I wish you a lovely day. Basically my 2cnts value of investments are that there are three type:- 1. Paper - shares, bonds and securities 2. Business 3. Real Estate. The least risky option is real estate; so people buy land cheap and use various options to sell it off at a later stage at times at 100% profit. Also the trick is to have just enough cash for the down payment and the duration of payment of the price. The guys you mentioned in Kitusuru may have raised enough for the down payment where they practically almost own the house. During this period they can for instance rent it or do anything else interesting. The result is that if prices rise during the principal payment period and the investor gets a buyer. They are at liberty to now sell the property, pay off their debt and make a hefty profit. Thank you Kind regards Athar On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 1:01 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
Ok, to give you an idea on the situation. I recently went over to some place in Kitusuru that some person wanted consultancy on IT integration. The developments are not very old etc. Anyway, I got curious and asked the person what price did the units sell for? When I got the answer, I was completely taken back! Yes, A Million Dollars! WTF, I thought to myself.....who would pay such a price for a place that is more secured than a fort ( meaning people here are always worried about their security ), the roads leading to it are so dingy and pot-holed that you really would want a security escort late at night, there are no street lights for many miles, they have their own borehole ( because we have major water shortages since the 80s- I remember the chania project was supposed to alleviate the situation ) , there is no internet because the nearest fiber tap is about 10 kms away, the list is endless on what does not exist. I could not add the two together. Then on my recent trip to Cape Town, I went on some tour of some very best scenic bays in the world and where some hollywood stars own property. And property here was relatively as expensive as KE but you get some real good stuff worth of what you would invest. So if I had a Million USD to spend on a property, would it be Kitusuru or Cape town? I already have the answer.
Going back to the thread, I've been following the various articles on KE scene, still makes no sense of what is going on.
Me thots.
Rgds
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Another example of how expensive our real estate is : 1) Brookside drive ( anyone been on these roads lately, the road is a good offroad testing ground for 4X4 suspensions ) and nothing unique to the area. No seafront, high-gated communities, water supply is a problem and electricity, don't ask. 2 bedroomed development = Ksh 12.5 Million http://www.hassconsult.co.ke/hass/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&... 2) CapeTown prime area ( dont even ask about the roads, security and infrastructure because you have to have visited Cape Town to understand the difference ) 1 bedroomed development = Ksh 6.7 http://www.sunshineestates.net/main/property_detail.asp?property_id=46458&cu... Me thots.
@Bernard Well...at least you tried :-) My profiles: [image: Facebook]<http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#%21/profile.php?id=1272219139> [image: Twitter] <http://twitter.com/#%21/dutchezjuma> [image: MySpace]<http://www.myspace.com/dutchez8> [image: Twitter] <http://twitter.com/dutchezjuma>twitter 25 Cool Geek Gifts - http://www.mostinspired.com/blog/2010/11/23/25-cool-geek-gifts/ Follow @dutchezjuma <http://twitter.com/dutchezjuma> <http://twitter.com/?status=@dutchezjuma%20&in_reply_to_status_id=9176275973316610&in_reply_to=dutchezjuma> Reply<http://twitter.com/?status=@dutchezjuma%20&in_reply_to_status_id=9176275973316610&in_reply_to=dutchezjuma> <http://twitter.com/?status=RT%20%40dutchezjuma%3A%2025%20Cool%20Geek%20Gifts%20-%20http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mostinspired.com%2Fblog%2F2010%2F11%2F23%2F25-cool-geek-gifts%2F> Retweet<http://twitter.com/?status=RT%20%40dutchezjuma%3A%2025%20Cool%20Geek%20Gifts%20-%20http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mostinspired.com%2Fblog%2F2010%2F11%2F23%2F25-cool-geek-gifts%2F> 12:26 Nov-29 <http://twitter.com/dutchezjuma/statuses/9176275973316610> Get this email app! <http://www.wisestamp.com/apps/twitter?utm_source=extension&utm_medium=email&utm_term=twitter&utm_campaign=apps> Signature powered by <http://www.wisestamp.com/email-install?utm_source=extension&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=footer> WiseStamp<http://www.wisestamp.com/email-install?utm_source=extension&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=footer> On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 3:02 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
Another example of how expensive our real estate is :
1) Brookside drive ( anyone been on these roads lately, the road is a good offroad testing ground for 4X4 suspensions ) and nothing unique to the area. No seafront, high-gated communities, water supply is a problem and electricity, don't ask.
2 bedroomed development = Ksh 12.5 Million http://www.hassconsult.co.ke/hass/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&...
2) CapeTown prime area ( dont even ask about the roads, security and infrastructure because you have to have visited Cape Town to understand the difference )
1 bedroomed development = Ksh 6.7
http://www.sunshineestates.net/main/property_detail.asp?property_id=46458&cu...
Me thots.
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Fine, lets all head to Cape Town! I thought cape Town is where the rich in SA live? I think Jo Burg also has cheaper property compared to Nairobi. But its very true that property prices in Nairobi are bloated. A friend who lives in London tells me that prices here are comparable to London to some extent! Doesnt make sense at all. On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 3:16 PM, @dutchezjuma <dutchez8@gmail.com> wrote:
@Bernard Well...at least you tried :-)
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On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 3:02 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
Another example of how expensive our real estate is :
1) Brookside drive ( anyone been on these roads lately, the road is a good offroad testing ground for 4X4 suspensions ) and nothing unique to the area. No seafront, high-gated communities, water supply is a problem and electricity, don't ask.
2 bedroomed development = Ksh 12.5 Million http://www.hassconsult.co.ke/hass/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&...
2) CapeTown prime area ( dont even ask about the roads, security and infrastructure because you have to have visited Cape Town to understand the difference )
1 bedroomed development = Ksh 6.7
http://www.sunshineestates.net/main/property_detail.asp?property_id=46458&cu...
Me thots.
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lack of alternative investment opportunities in Kenya! What would you do if you had some millions in Kenya today. In a way that it will beat the inflation rate? Considering there are no credible IPO's around. Just by something all your five senses can sense. (See, Touch, Smell,Hold,Hear). On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Evans Ikua <ikua.evans@gmail.com> wrote:
Fine, lets all head to Cape Town! I thought cape Town is where the rich in SA live? I think Jo Burg also has cheaper property compared to Nairobi. But its very true that property prices in Nairobi are bloated. A friend who lives in London tells me that prices here are comparable to London to some extent! Doesnt make sense at all.
On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 3:16 PM, @dutchezjuma <dutchez8@gmail.com> wrote:
@Bernard Well...at least you tried :-)
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On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 3:02 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
Another example of how expensive our real estate is :
1) Brookside drive ( anyone been on these roads lately, the road is a good offroad testing ground for 4X4 suspensions ) and nothing unique to the area. No seafront, high-gated communities, water supply is a problem and electricity, don't ask.
2 bedroomed development = Ksh 12.5 Million http://www.hassconsult.co.ke/hass/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&...
2) CapeTown prime area ( dont even ask about the roads, security and infrastructure because you have to have visited Cape Town to understand the difference )
1 bedroomed development = Ksh 6.7
http://www.sunshineestates.net/main/property_detail.asp?property_id=46458&cu...
Me thots.
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@ peter...which senses are those again??... "(See, Touch, Smell,Hold,Hear)" all in all what you say is absolutely correct in essence though there are other investment vehicles that the senses cannot be invoked such as bonds, shares and FD's. Have a great day! Warm regards, Amarjit Singh Labhuram. On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 4:02 PM, Peter Muchemi <pmuchemi@gmail.com> wrote:
lack of alternative investment opportunities in Kenya!
What would you do if you had some millions in Kenya today. In a way that it will beat the inflation rate?
Considering there are no credible IPO's around. Just by something all your five senses can sense. (See, Touch, Smell,Hold,Hear).
On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Evans Ikua <ikua.evans@gmail.com> wrote:
Fine, lets all head to Cape Town! I thought cape Town is where the rich in SA live? I think Jo Burg also has cheaper property compared to Nairobi. But its very true that property prices in Nairobi are bloated. A friend who lives in London tells me that prices here are comparable to London to some extent! Doesnt make sense at all.
On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 3:16 PM, @dutchezjuma <dutchez8@gmail.com> wrote:
@Bernard Well...at least you tried :-)
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On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 3:02 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
Another example of how expensive our real estate is :
1) Brookside drive ( anyone been on these roads lately, the road is a good offroad testing ground for 4X4 suspensions ) and nothing unique to the area. No seafront, high-gated communities, water supply is a problem and electricity, don't ask.
2 bedroomed development = Ksh 12.5 Million http://www.hassconsult.co.ke/hass/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&...
2) CapeTown prime area ( dont even ask about the roads, security and infrastructure because you have to have visited Cape Town to understand the difference )
1 bedroomed development = Ksh 6.7
http://www.sunshineestates.net/main/property_detail.asp?property_id=46458&cu...
Me thots.
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Returns for Financial instruments like bonds,FDs have returns below the inflation rate. For a jamaa who invests in the "other" economic segment like Matatus, Importing Mitumba's & new clothes, from turkey, india, china, second hand computers & motor vehicle parts etc wealth is kept in houses & land coz the return will be greater that inflation. On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 4:06 PM, Amarjit Labhuram < amarjit.labhuram@gmail.com> wrote:
@ peter...which senses are those again??... "(See, Touch, Smell,Hold,Hear)"
all in all what you say is absolutely correct in essence though there are other investment vehicles that the senses cannot be invoked such as bonds, shares and FD's.
Have a great day!
Warm regards, Amarjit Singh Labhuram.
On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 4:02 PM, Peter Muchemi <pmuchemi@gmail.com> wrote:
lack of alternative investment opportunities in Kenya!
What would you do if you had some millions in Kenya today. In a way that it will beat the inflation rate?
Considering there are no credible IPO's around. Just by something all your five senses can sense. (See, Touch, Smell,Hold,Hear).
On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Evans Ikua <ikua.evans@gmail.com> wrote:
Fine, lets all head to Cape Town! I thought cape Town is where the rich in SA live? I think Jo Burg also has cheaper property compared to Nairobi. But its very true that property prices in Nairobi are bloated. A friend who lives in London tells me that prices here are comparable to London to some extent! Doesnt make sense at all.
On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 3:16 PM, @dutchezjuma <dutchez8@gmail.com>wrote:
@Bernard Well...at least you tried :-)
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On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 3:02 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
Another example of how expensive our real estate is :
1) Brookside drive ( anyone been on these roads lately, the road is a good offroad testing ground for 4X4 suspensions ) and nothing unique to the area. No seafront, high-gated communities, water supply is a problem and electricity, don't ask.
2 bedroomed development = Ksh 12.5 Million http://www.hassconsult.co.ke/hass/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&...
2) CapeTown prime area ( dont even ask about the roads, security and infrastructure because you have to have visited Cape Town to understand the difference )
1 bedroomed development = Ksh 6.7
http://www.sunshineestates.net/main/property_detail.asp?property_id=46458&cu...
Me thots.
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@Peter, like all investments people look for returns. On the property front, suppose you buy an expensive place and want to rent it out ( as an investment ). Chances are that you will not find the tenants to pay the rates that you want. Next step is to get some NGO to pay, again chances are that you will have a tenant until the work contract of the NGO expires, then you are back at square one. Given the glut of expensive places and rents, you may find it difficult to get a return for quite a while. Also do not forget that Caesar also wants to tax you on rental income. So business makes more sense than property. Simple question = would you buy an expensive property that you know is over priced and what happens when you sell it? Any suggestions? Rgds. On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 4:18 PM, Peter Muchemi <pmuchemi@gmail.com> wrote:
Returns for Financial instruments like bonds,FDs have returns below the inflation rate. For a jamaa who invests in the "other" economic segment like Matatus, Importing Mitumba's & new clothes, from turkey, india, china, second hand computers & motor vehicle parts etc wealth is kept in houses & land coz the return will be greater that inflation.
the guy who is making a killing is the person selling you the 'expensive' property... -- Josiah Mugambi 2010/11/29 aki <aki275@gmail.com>
@Peter, like all investments people look for returns. On the property front, suppose you buy an expensive place and want to rent it out ( as an investment ). Chances are that you will not find the tenants to pay the rates that you want. Next step is to get some NGO to pay, again chances are that you will have a tenant until the work contract of the NGO expires, then you are back at square one. Given the glut of expensive places and rents, you may find it difficult to get a return for quite a while. Also do not forget that Caesar also wants to tax you on rental income. So business makes more sense than property.
Simple question = would you buy an expensive property that you know is over priced and what happens when you sell it?
Any suggestions?
Rgds.
On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 4:18 PM, Peter Muchemi <pmuchemi@gmail.com> wrote:
Returns for Financial instruments like bonds,FDs have returns below the inflation rate. For a jamaa who invests in the "other" economic segment like Matatus, Importing Mitumba's & new clothes, from turkey, india, china, second hand computers & motor vehicle parts etc wealth is kept in houses & land coz the return will be greater that inflation.
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for most of us buying a property is like buying an expensive junk. like those cars at concours. Only diff is that the cars are rare so one can find a buyer. When I pass by Kile & other places I can't help but see an umoja innercore in a few years. It is even worse than eastlands coz for the latter, the guy who planned it made it for the masses so Jogoo road is wide. The jam trail from the leafy @ 8am is unimaginable! On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 4:35 PM, Josiah Mugambi <jmugambi@gmail.com> wrote:
the guy who is making a killing is the person selling you the 'expensive' property... -- Josiah Mugambi
2010/11/29 aki <aki275@gmail.com>
@Peter, like all investments people look for returns. On the property front, suppose you buy an expensive place and want to rent it out ( as an investment ). Chances are that you will not find the tenants to pay the rates that you want. Next step is to get some NGO to pay, again chances are that you will have a tenant until the work contract of the NGO expires, then you are back at square one. Given the glut of expensive places and rents, you may find it difficult to get a return for quite a while. Also do not forget that Caesar also wants to tax you on rental income. So business makes more sense than property.
Simple question = would you buy an expensive property that you know is over priced and what happens when you sell it?
Any suggestions?
Rgds.
On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 4:18 PM, Peter Muchemi <pmuchemi@gmail.com>wrote:
Returns for Financial instruments like bonds,FDs have returns below the inflation rate. For a jamaa who invests in the "other" economic segment like Matatus, Importing Mitumba's & new clothes, from turkey, india, china, second hand computers & motor vehicle parts etc wealth is kept in houses & land coz the return will be greater that inflation.
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lol! Peter, I've never known any human being to pay more for something just because its an investment or an expensive hobby unless they are pretty much comfortable. Which is okay, its their right to. I also do know that most rich/influential people would rather not pay for a cent for something and get it absoletely free. BTW, are the rents going up in Eastlands and at what rate annually? On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 4:45 PM, Peter Muchemi <pmuchemi@gmail.com> wrote:
for most of us buying a property is like buying an expensive junk. like those cars at concours. Only diff is that the cars are rare so one can find a buyer. When I pass by Kile & other places I can't help but see an umoja innercore in a few years. It is even worse than eastlands coz for the latter, the guy who planned it made it for the masses so Jogoo road is wide.
The jam trail from the leafy @ 8am is unimaginable!
The boom is definitely fake and by fake I mean that some people are about to get played big time, because they will be left with dead stock in their hands which they have paid too much money for. Property in Karen, Kitisuru is now touching the $1 million mark (IN a developing country - does this make sense?) Properties in Langata, South B and South C are now selling for double figures. And this is meant for the middle classes? Someone mentioned the disapora, while this may be have been true a while back true remember that the global economy has taken a hit e.g. US. The pirates may be a factor (actually maybe they'll just buy the entire country). As for expatriates, they only buy property located on one half of the town, therefore they don't account for what is happening in the middle income areas. The lower lending rates by the banks are definitely a factor. I beleive those who can get mortgages are taking them. There is also the phenomenon of buying houses sight unseen so you pay for the house as it is being built thus giving you time to gather your funds. In fact if anyone wants to get involved in the real estate industry, now is the time to prepare your cash and just wait patiently. I predict that in the very near future there is going to be a high default rate on property payments and a whole flood of auctions. On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 4:54 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
lol! Peter, I've never known any human being to pay more for something just because its an investment or an expensive hobby unless they are pretty much comfortable. Which is okay, its their right to. I also do know that most rich/influential people would rather not pay for a cent for something and get it absoletely free. BTW, are the rents going up in Eastlands and at what rate annually?
On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 4:45 PM, Peter Muchemi <pmuchemi@gmail.com> wrote:
for most of us buying a property is like buying an expensive junk. like those cars at concours. Only diff is that the cars are rare so one can find a buyer. When I pass by Kile & other places I can't help but see an umoja innercore in a few years. It is even worse than eastlands coz for the latter, the guy who planned it made it for the masses so Jogoo road is wide.
The jam trail from the leafy @ 8am is unimaginable!
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in your dreams On 29 November 2010 17:13, Charles Negera <cnegera@gmail.com> wrote:
The boom is definitely fake and by fake I mean that some people are about to get played big time, because they will be left with dead stock in their hands which they have paid too much money for.
My expert opinion. In September 2007, I was at Safaricom for a job interview, and I remember them asking me - as someone who's done a lot of IT in real estate - where the property boom is leading. I told them there is no property boom like everyone is talking. What is there is land speculation and property overpricing, and they laughed in unison, then stared at me blankly - I think they though they had been conned somehow since they looked well off. At that time, the market rate for a 2 bedroomed flat was Kes. 3.5 - 4.5 million. Today, you will be lucky to find one going for Kes. 8.0 million unless I take you to NHC (National Housing Corporation), a government subsidiary. I have never understood why prices are going high every year. I am both an economist and an IT specialist by training, and despite the more than 6 years in the property industry, it baffles me too. I just can't find market fundamentals to justify a flat going for Kes. 12.5 - 18 million (a flat, without land for parking a car or safe playground for my kids). By contrast, the rents for commercial activities have been showing a predictable trend thats commercially convincing. In fact some people are converting houses and apartments in places like Hurlingham into office space because its no longer viable to house people next to a place where real commercial activity is going on - being that residential incomes thin out while commercial incomes surge upwards in such a locality. I have hard a working relationship with property valuers and what they simply do is take cumulative purchase values for a certain place and do an average . There's a formula thats industry specific. Thats what banks will lend to you to purchase the land or property. Most of the time some monied person comes around and buys a house or land at 3 or 4 times its price in the neighbourhood. When the valuers compute the next index in that area, which is likely within a month or two, they have to include the inflated price, the location will soon show a massive increase as the values cascade the property values. Guys, sometimes I regret why I didnt use my "Chacha" to purchase land or get some mortgage. Land in my neighborhood used to cost Kes. 25,000 in 1999 when I was still in campus. That was for an acre. Then, there were no apartments there. We now have many houses there as we speak. Today, if you don't have Kes. 3 million or more for a plot, forget it. Anyway, the way I see things, land will NEVER be cheap. With the surging population, Skunkers had better start purchasing land whenever they can find an affordable piece. The future is going to be very hard. Even arid areas like Isiolo or Laikipia will start experiencing surging prices with the Internal Container Deport and the high speed railway to the Sudan's and Ethiopia being constructed around Mt. Kenya, and the Lamu sea port opening up development in the arid north. Soon, the arid areas will provide the engine of development. I have watched land and rental prices escalate countrywide, and from my predictive indices, its going to be endemic, countrywide, in four or 8 years from now. So stop whining and use whatever income you have to purchase property before stuff runs out of your means. If you are like wahindi's, start investing in real agribusiness as the surging population will need food to eat. You only need to lease land in the great rift valley, you don't need buy it. My thoughts. Peter
Well, what we need is a simulation to show point X. Point X is the point where a significant proportion of the population will have taken loans to buy property , and they will be unable to finance the huge loans, and the banks will be unable to find a buyer to resell the properties to at those huge prices, something they call toxic assets. The problem of buying property with a bank loans is that the other guys buying the same property do not need the frigging bank loan to finance it. So you are burning yourself to be at par. Though, it looks like we have established ourselves as a money laundering haven, which explains why prices are rising. Make illegal money elsewhere, invest it in Kenya, nobody will ask where the money came from. Also make sure that you investment has high security, you do not want those unlucky Kenyans coming after your hard worked cash, do you?
@Peter, based on your expert opinion, we still do not have any answers to the steep price rises and the high demand buyouts on such inflated prices. Bottomline is the sector needs serious investigations and implementations of anti-abuse measures. KRA for example needs to implement a system that requires buyers to declare source of funds before the land registry can act on the sale, something like a clearance certificate which also covers banks/developers who may be hiding the "cash economy". The problem is there is no one to police the KRA, therefore land transactions also remain behind the curtains. The price of this expensive boom is going to have a very bad effect on the economy down the road where property will remain out of reach for many kenyans. So rather than stimulate investments, the current trends discourage such investments. While I'd not discourage anyone to buy property here, I'd advice them to shop around first. Kenyan property is definately not worth the prices that are being pushed by developers/banks but we know that KE is not a cheap place either. The govt puts inflation at around 2.5% yet the annual increase in rents is not less than 10%. Surely, the govt is disconnected from the realities on the ground and letting things go on unchecked. I still put the blame on CBK for being a cheer leader in the downward slide. Business may be good for some but that does not mean the economy is doing well. The economy should be doing much better and giving more power to its citizens on investments and reduction on cost of living. Me techie thots. Rgds.
ill add my 2 cents(im an aspiring economist) there are several forces in play in the Kenyan economic space. Foreign money in form of 1. Diaspora investment into property although that reduced after economic crisis-lost jobs,unavailable credit in west 2. Expartriates - working for africa headquarters and UN type of organisations- most rent houses for 150 to 300k some more 3. Pirate money 4. Drug money 5. Other money laundering initiatives Local money 1. Corruption money- politicians and "smart" dealers who launder money from big corrupt deals(parastatals and govt deals) into housing estates (does tokyo ring a bell? wonder where the money went?) 2. Hard earned cash 3. Mortgages for wananchi who use hard earned salaries to pay double the price of property every month If you are buying a house on mortgage basis and repaying monthly rates of 70k and fetching rent of 30k guess what the real value of the property is???? 30k it will appreciate but thats its real value now. The market bust will only happen when 1. Corruption is stemmed(a lot is happening in that direction albeit slowly) 2. China or US kasirika and attack somalia and stop this pirate trade that is suspiciously a protected industry.... 3. Middle class move back to counties to build their localities or new developments shift focus from current upmarket developments However, prices wont come down much unless we have an economic downturn, which in Kenya could be like 30 years away seeing what is happening now in terms of economic expansion. Its a gamble to buy property nowadays (you could buy a house for 12 milli and the property developer was just a quack and the house starts leaking, ive heard a few horror stories) but if you have ready cash or at least 50% property down payment then its a wise investment since your mortgage repayments wont be outright theft... On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 9:15 AM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
@Peter, based on your expert opinion, we still do not have any answers to the steep price rises and the high demand buyouts on such inflated prices. Bottomline is the sector needs serious investigations and implementations of anti-abuse measures. KRA for example needs to implement a system that requires buyers to declare source of funds before the land registry can act on the sale, something like a clearance certificate which also covers banks/developers who may be hiding the "cash economy". The problem is there is no one to police the KRA, therefore land transactions also remain behind the curtains. The price of this expensive boom is going to have a very bad effect on the economy down the road where property will remain out of reach for many kenyans. So rather than stimulate investments, the current trends discourage such investments. While I'd not discourage anyone to buy property here, I'd advice them to shop around first. Kenyan property is definately not worth the prices that are being pushed by developers/banks but we know that KE is not a cheap place either.
The govt puts inflation at around 2.5% yet the annual increase in rents is not less than 10%. Surely, the govt is disconnected from the realities on the ground and letting things go on unchecked. I still put the blame on CBK for being a cheer leader in the downward slide. Business may be good for some but that does not mean the economy is doing well. The economy should be doing much better and giving more power to its citizens on investments and reduction on cost of living.
Me techie thots.
Rgds.
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-- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 9:15 AM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
@Peter, based on your expert opinion, we still do not have any answers to the steep price rises and the high demand buyouts on such inflated prices. Bottomline is the sector needs serious investigations and implementations of anti-abuse measures. KRA for example needs to implement a system that requires buyers to declare source of funds before the land registry can act on the sale, something like a clearance certificate which also covers banks/developers who may be hiding the "cash economy".
Aki; Inflation when computed with 2003 as the base, before the prices surged in 2007, will reflect a 35% rate. The rate was revised to a "friendly" base 2010, meaning we are living in tough times since even at a "friendly" base year, inflation is higher than most developed nations that are going through hard times. Im privy to the fact that diaspora might be behind this whole phenomenon, and its purely speculative since they can no longer invest in developed markets as they are showing marked volatility in prices. I have a couple of friends in the US who have invested in property in .KE over the last year or so. From my dealings in the industry, I have heard enquiries coming in from all corners of the world mostly from Europe, USA and the Far East. So I believe the purchases are based on ignorance. There's a realtor that's even selling "premium" beach front malindi plots in the European markets at upto Kes. 100 million an acre. And they are selling. Mike Sonko was in the news the other day selling a plot in North Coast at 85 Million, so yote yawezekana. Kenya is being purchased, we have to be part of the buyers and not whiners. Peter
One more thing In a certain european country i once lived in , a one bedroomed apartment if converted to Ksh went for 22m. The same in Kenya would get you a grand investment. So you have western and eastern european bigwigs or even kawaida wananchi from there asking themselves, why buy a small apt for 22m when i can get a grand beachhouse for the same amount and I can retire and live in Kenya where i will have servants and warm weather? So thats another source of funds.Italians,scandinavians,swiss etc.... On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Peter Osotsi <peter.osotsi@gmail.com>wrote:
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 9:15 AM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
@Peter, based on your expert opinion, we still do not have any answers to the steep price rises and the high demand buyouts on such inflated prices. Bottomline is the sector needs serious investigations and implementations of anti-abuse measures. KRA for example needs to implement a system that requires buyers to declare source of funds before the land registry can act on the sale, something like a clearance certificate which also covers banks/developers who may be hiding the "cash economy".
Aki;
Inflation when computed with 2003 as the base, before the prices surged in 2007, will reflect a 35% rate. The rate was revised to a "friendly" base 2010, meaning we are living in tough times since even at a "friendly" base year, inflation is higher than most developed nations that are going through hard times.
Im privy to the fact that diaspora might be behind this whole phenomenon, and its purely speculative since they can no longer invest in developed markets as they are showing marked volatility in prices. I have a couple of friends in the US who have invested in property in .KE over the last year or so. From my dealings in the industry, I have heard enquiries coming in from all corners of the world mostly from Europe, USA and the Far East. So I believe the purchases are based on ignorance. There's a realtor that's even selling "premium" beach front malindi plots in the European markets at upto Kes. 100 million an acre. And they are selling. Mike Sonko was in the news the other day selling a plot in North Coast at 85 Million, so yote yawezekana.
Kenya is being purchased, we have to be part of the buyers and not whiners.
Peter
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-- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.
Now, if we had an idea of who was buying the land , at least we would know what is going on. Where are all those people looking to start "local content" . start with a leak from the Ministry of Lands on Land Transactions
is there a Kenyan version of the wikileaks?
On 30 November 2010 12:39, Shadrack Mwaniki <shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com>wrote:
is there a Kenyan version of the wikileaks?
Isolated blogs!!!
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-- *Solomon Mbũrũ Kamau* ***************************************************** *Man is a gregarious animal and enjoys agreement as cows will graze all the same way to the side of a hill!* AND *It is better to die in dignity than in the ignominy of ambiguous generosity! * http://smiley2.wordpress.com http://mburu.sikika.co.ke
On that note is there a Kenyan version of wikipedia? -----Original Message----- From: Shadrack Mwaniki <shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> Reply-to: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Subject: [Skunkworks] OT : Kenya Leaks version of Wikileaks Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 01:39:27 -0800 (PST) Mailer: YahooMailRC/553 YahooMailWebService/0.8.107.285259 is there a Kenyan version of the wikileaks? _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke -- Regards, Joe Murithi Njeru LPI Certified Professional (www.lpi.org) Linux User: #361092 SIP: joe.njeru@ekiga.net Twitter: http://twitter.com/joenjeru Blog: http://www.joenjeru.com
and a kenyan version of gmail... :-) On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 1:09 PM, Joe Murithi Njeru <joe.njeru@gmail.com>wrote:
On that note is there a Kenyan version of wikipedia?
-----Original Message----- From: Shadrack Mwaniki <shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> Reply-to: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Subject: [Skunkworks] OT : Kenya Leaks version of Wikileaks Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 01:39:27 -0800 (PST) Mailer: YahooMailRC/553 YahooMailWebService/0.8.107.285259
is there a Kenyan version of the wikileaks?
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-- Regards,
Joe Murithi Njeru LPI Certified Professional (www.lpi.org) Linux User: #361092 SIP: joe.njeru@ekiga.net Twitter: http://twitter.com/joenjeru Blog: http://www.joenjeru.com
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-- Regards, Collins Areba. *Strategic Operations. * *Center for Renewable Alternatives* Old Ferry Road, off Msa Malindi Rd, | Kilifi, Kenya. +254 720 516758 /734 696821 | skype/gtalk/twitter: arebacollins **
Think he meant Kenyan leaks of Cablegates? Ama
I think the Kenyan cables are going to be explosive since the US ambassador has even apologized even before they start coming in... So far only 281 out of 251,287 have been uploaded on the Cable Viewer: cablegate.wikileaks.org I am looking at the harare leak and I am wondering...If that is what they had to say about Mugabe in Harare...I wonder what they said about our leaders... Claire. On 11/30/10, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
Think he meant Kenyan leaks of Cablegates? Ama
On 30 November 2010 14:09, Claire Njoki <clairenjoki@gmail.com> wrote:
I think the Kenyan cables are going to be explosive since the US ambassador has even apologized even before they start coming in...
So far only 281 out of 251,287 have been uploaded on the Cable Viewer: cablegate.wikileaks.org
I am looking at the harare leak and I am wondering...If that is what they had to say about Mugabe in Harare...I wonder what they said about our leaders...
So we are eating with someone whom we think he's our friend and in real sense, he's looking at our eating habits ready to tell our neighbours!!! Damn US Ambassador
Claire.
On 11/30/10, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
Think he meant Kenyan leaks of Cablegates? Ama
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-- *Solomon Mbũrũ Kamau* ***************************************************** *Man is a gregarious animal and enjoys agreement as cows will graze all the same way to the side of a hill!* AND *It is better to die in dignity than in the ignominy of ambiguous generosity! * http://smiley2.wordpress.com http://mburu.sikika.co.ke
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 2:21 PM, Solomon Mburu Kamau <solo.mburu@gmail.com>wrote:
On 30 November 2010 14:09, Claire Njoki <clairenjoki@gmail.com> wrote:
I think the Kenyan cables are going to be explosive since the US ambassador has even apologized even before they start coming in...
So far only 281 out of 251,287 have been uploaded on the Cable Viewer: cablegate.wikileaks.org
I am looking at the harare leak and I am wondering...If that is what they had to say about Mugabe in Harare...I wonder what they said about our leaders...
So we are eating with someone whom we think he's our friend and in real sense, he's looking at our eating habits ready to tell our neighbours!!! Damn US Ambassador
Wikileaks or not, our (kenyan) system is so rotten. I don't see anything new that wikileaks is likely to reveal. If I was not Kenyan (such that my blood too is rotten Kenyan style), I'd say the same things about Kenya that the American would. Let me pose this to you guys: Is what the Americans say more profound and damaging than all the scandals our leadership is "shitting" (accommodating)on? Scandal after scandal, commission of inquiry after another and nothing happens - is that the way we want it? Is that what makes us proud, that now we can say words as Solomon Mburu is? Let us stop pretending. Kenya is worse already than wikileaks can make it. Right now, we know that HM, WK, HJ, MS, KM etc are drug barons and noone wants to name them, leave alone get them arrested. Same musical chairs as usual... What else can be worse than it already is?? -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Damn!!
On 30 November 2010 14:35, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 2:21 PM, Solomon Mburu Kamau <solo.mburu@gmail.com
wrote:
On 30 November 2010 14:09, Claire Njoki <clairenjoki@gmail.com> wrote:
I think the Kenyan cables are going to be explosive since the US ambassador has even apologized even before they start coming in...
So far only 281 out of 251,287 have been uploaded on the Cable Viewer: cablegate.wikileaks.org
I am looking at the harare leak and I am wondering...If that is what they had to say about Mugabe in Harare...I wonder what they said about our leaders...
So we are eating with someone whom we think he's our friend and in real sense, he's looking at our eating habits ready to tell our neighbours!!! Damn US Ambassador
Wikileaks or not, our (kenyan) system is so rotten. I don't see anything new that wikileaks is likely to reveal. If I was not Kenyan (such that my blood too is rotten Kenyan style), I'd say the same things about Kenya that the American would.
Let me pose this to you guys: Is what the Americans say more profound and damaging than all the scandals our leadership is "shitting" (accommodating)on? Scandal after scandal, commission of inquiry after another and nothing happens - is that the way we want it?
Is that what makes us proud, that now we can say words as Solomon Mburu is?
Wash, I concur with you. I was basing my argument on the diplomatic role the US Ambassador should be playing. Not acting as a spy master for Obama and Hilary. There is not much proud things we can talk about since 2002 we've had so many scandal than ever. How the hell did Sonko get clearance from CID and NSIS to contest the Makadara seat? {These two agents provide Certificate of Good Conduct FYI!} Who are the Artur brothers, and what did Michuki (the Minister not Mwirigi) mean by saying *if you rattle a snake be ready to get bitten? *Didn't parliament create a 'constitutional crisis' whenever the parliamentarians feel there space is threarened? The list is endless, thus eating out our pride as a nation.
Let us stop pretending. Kenya is worse already than wikileaks can make it.
Nothing is new in the leaks, just a confirmation of the matters at hand!
Right now, we know that HM, WK, HJ, MS, KM etc are drug barons and noone wants to name them, leave alone get them arrested. Same musical chairs as usual...
What else can be worse than it already is??
Nothing unless Kiraitu changes keeps his promise of regulating petrol {by the end of the week} that oil cartels have taken advantage of the (regulatory) hiatus in place.
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Damn!!
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-- *Solomon Mbũrũ Kamau* ***************************************************** *Man is a gregarious animal and enjoys agreement as cows will graze all the same way to the side of a hill!* AND *It is better to die in dignity than in the ignominy of ambiguous generosity! * http://smiley2.wordpress.com http://mburu.sikika.co.ke
@Solomon You are forgetting that the ambassador was sent here to 'spy', in quotes because when it gets to the core thats what he and all ambassadors do, report on what in going on in the countries they have been posted to. And this reporting can be either in diplomatic speak or with the use of certain choice words. V On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 2:57 PM, Solomon Mburu Kamau <solo.mburu@gmail.com>wrote:
On 30 November 2010 14:35, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 2:21 PM, Solomon Mburu Kamau < solo.mburu@gmail.com> wrote:
On 30 November 2010 14:09, Claire Njoki <clairenjoki@gmail.com> wrote:
I think the Kenyan cables are going to be explosive since the US ambassador has even apologized even before they start coming in...
So far only 281 out of 251,287 have been uploaded on the Cable Viewer: cablegate.wikileaks.org
I am looking at the harare leak and I am wondering...If that is what they had to say about Mugabe in Harare...I wonder what they said about our leaders...
So we are eating with someone whom we think he's our friend and in real sense, he's looking at our eating habits ready to tell our neighbours!!! Damn US Ambassador
Wikileaks or not, our (kenyan) system is so rotten. I don't see anything new that wikileaks is likely to reveal. If I was not Kenyan (such that my blood too is rotten Kenyan style), I'd say the same things about Kenya that the American would.
Let me pose this to you guys: Is what the Americans say more profound and damaging than all the scandals our leadership is "shitting" (accommodating)on? Scandal after scandal, commission of inquiry after another and nothing happens - is that the way we want it?
Is that what makes us proud, that now we can say words as Solomon Mburu is?
Wash, I concur with you. I was basing my argument on the diplomatic role the US Ambassador should be playing. Not acting as a spy master for Obama and Hilary. There is not much proud things we can talk about since 2002 we've had so many scandal than ever. How the hell did Sonko get clearance from CID and NSIS to contest the Makadara seat? {These two agents provide Certificate of Good Conduct FYI!} Who are the Artur brothers, and what did Michuki (the Minister not Mwirigi) mean by saying *if you rattle a snake be ready to get bitten? *Didn't parliament create a 'constitutional crisis' whenever the parliamentarians feel there space is threarened? The list is endless, thus eating out our pride as a nation.
Let us stop pretending. Kenya is worse already than wikileaks can make it.
Nothing is new in the leaks, just a confirmation of the matters at hand!
Right now, we know that HM, WK, HJ, MS, KM etc are drug barons and noone wants to name them, leave alone get them arrested. Same musical chairs as usual...
What else can be worse than it already is??
Nothing unless Kiraitu changes keeps his promise of regulating petrol {by the end of the week} that oil cartels have taken advantage of the (regulatory) hiatus in place.
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Damn!!
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-- *Solomon Mbũrũ Kamau*
***************************************************** *Man is a gregarious animal and enjoys agreement as cows will graze all the same way to the side of a hill!*
AND
*It is better to die in dignity than in the ignominy of ambiguous generosity! *
http://smiley2.wordpress.com http://mburu.sikika.co.ke
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-- Victor Ngeny Mobile +254713957356 GTalk: victormaritim Twitter: @ngeny Yahoo: vikngne Skype: victor.ngeny
I'm very surprised at the naiveté of some of the responses to this matter. The US Embassy is here to represent AMERICAN interests. They're not here to just give money and attend press conferences. The same holds true for all the other embassies.
Rad. I don't mean to disagree with your claim... but what if that's what [that they're here for American interests only] they want us to believe and not what is really going on? Western diplomats in Africa are known for meddling in the affairs of their host countries. That's a fact, so it could be more than just about interests. On 30 November 2010 15:02, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm very surprised at the naiveté of some of the responses to this matter. The US Embassy is here to represent AMERICAN interests. They're not here to just give money and attend press conferences. The same holds true for all the other embassies. _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Simon Mbuthia <simon.mbuthia@gmail.com>wrote:
Rad. I don't mean to disagree with your claim... but what if that's what [that they're here for American interests only] they want us to believe and not what is really going on? Western diplomats in Africa are known for meddling in the affairs of their host countries. That's a fact, so it could be more than just about interests.
Simon. They are here for the same reasons we have posted our folks to their home countries. Those reasons are defined by the Vienna Convention. I haven't read it because I am not interested in the nitty-gritty but I must say humans will always be suspicious of the other.
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Damn!!
I do not understand how for example considering causing a bloodbath in zimbabwe or assassinating Mugabe would be considered as American interest. Please read the harare cable in the following link: http://cablegate.wikileaks.org/cable/2007/07/07HARARE638.html On 11/30/10, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Simon Mbuthia <simon.mbuthia@gmail.com>wrote:
Rad. I don't mean to disagree with your claim... but what if that's what [that they're here for American interests only] they want us to believe and not what is really going on? Western diplomats in Africa are known for meddling in the affairs of their host countries. That's a fact, so it could be more than just about interests.
Simon. They are here for the same reasons we have posted our folks to their home countries. Those reasons are defined by the Vienna Convention. I haven't read it because I am not interested in the nitty-gritty but I must say humans will always be suspicious of the other.
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Damn!!
Claire, You will need to dig a little deeper to unravel some of these things. Securing your country's interests via diplomacy is an advanced game of chess. Moves you make today may appear nonsensical or counter productive but the full effects (and rationale) will be understood much later as events unfold Read this http://www.thinkersroom.com/blog/2005/07/get-real-global-politics-101-live-8... an example of how these things are done. Also do some research into how complete manipulation of governments by government and big business is also part of the game. Read up on what the CIA did in San Salvador On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Claire Njoki <clairenjoki@gmail.com> wrote:
I do not understand how for example considering causing a bloodbath in zimbabwe or assassinating Mugabe would be considered as American interest.
Please read the harare cable in the following link:
http://cablegate.wikileaks.org/cable/2007/07/07HARARE638.html
On 11/30/10, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Simon Mbuthia <simon.mbuthia@gmail.com>wrote:
Rad. I don't mean to disagree with your claim... but what if that's what [that they're here for American interests only] they want us to believe and not what is really going on? Western diplomats in Africa are known for meddling in the affairs of their host countries. That's a fact, so it could be more than just about interests.
Simon. They are here for the same reasons we have posted our folks to their home countries. Those reasons are defined by the Vienna Convention. I haven't read it because I am not interested in the nitty-gritty but I must say humans will always be suspicious of the other.
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Damn!!
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HM, WK, HJ, MS, KM ???? OK, I can guess who is HM and who is MS But I have no idea who are: WK, HJ, KM Are you scared of putting full names herein...a little bit chicken...or is it very dangerous to name names? Quack Quack Quack...chicken...or is that the sound of a duck? Claire. On 11/30/10, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm very surprised at the naiveté of some of the responses to this matter. The US Embassy is here to represent AMERICAN interests. They're not here to just give money and attend press conferences. The same holds true for all the other embassies.
@Claire, Please ask Kibaki and Raila to name names, because they have the dossier from America, otherwise wait for one brave soul named Gitobu Imanyara to spill the beans. I can only give the full names if some European (yes, not America) country offers to take me as their citizen. Anyway, you know these guys. Just think harder:-) On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 3:19 PM, Claire Njoki <clairenjoki@gmail.com> wrote:
HM, WK, HJ, MS, KM ????
OK, I can guess who is HM and who is MS
But I have no idea who are: WK, HJ, KM
Are you scared of putting full names herein...a little bit chicken...or is it very dangerous to name names?
Quack Quack Quack...chicken...or is that the sound of a duck?
Claire.
On 11/30/10, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm very surprised at the naiveté of some of the responses to this matter. The US Embassy is here to represent AMERICAN interests. They're not here to just give money and attend press conferences. The same holds true for all the other embassies.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Damn!!
Fill in the blanks 1. Mi_e S_ _k_ 2. Wi_ _ iam Ka_ _ _ _ 3. H_ _r_ Mw_ _ _ 4. Ha_ _ _ n J_h_ 5. T_ _ ib A _ i Ta_ _ _ b On 11/30/10, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:
@Claire,
Please ask Kibaki and Raila to name names, because they have the dossier from America, otherwise wait for one brave soul named Gitobu Imanyara to spill the beans.
I can only give the full names if some European (yes, not America) country offers to take me as their citizen.
Anyway, you know these guys. Just think harder:-)
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 3:19 PM, Claire Njoki <clairenjoki@gmail.com> wrote:
HM, WK, HJ, MS, KM ????
OK, I can guess who is HM and who is MS
But I have no idea who are: WK, HJ, KM
Are you scared of putting full names herein...a little bit chicken...or is it very dangerous to name names?
Quack Quack Quack...chicken...or is that the sound of a duck?
Claire.
On 11/30/10, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm very surprised at the naiveté of some of the responses to this matter. The US Embassy is here to represent AMERICAN interests. They're not here to just give money and attend press conferences. The same holds true for all the other embassies.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Damn!!
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 3:27 PM, Fellow Skunk <fellowskunker@gmail.com>wrote:
Fill in the blanks
1. Mi_e S_ _k_ 2. Wi_ _ iam Ka_ _ _ _ 3. H_ _r_ Mw_ _ _ 4. Ha_ _ _ n J_h_ 5. T_ _ ib A _ i Ta_ _ _ b
6. K_ _g_ _ _ M_ _n_ _ _ -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Damn!!
@ O_hia_bo Wa_hi_gt_n I do not get K_ _g_ _ _ M_ _n_ _ _ Regards, C_ai_e N_oki On 11/30/10, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 3:27 PM, Fellow Skunk <fellowskunker@gmail.com>wrote:
Fill in the blanks
1. Mi_e S_ _k_ 2. Wi_ _ iam Ka_ _ _ _ 3. H_ _r_ Mw_ _ _ 4. Ha_ _ _ n J_h_ 5. T_ _ ib A _ i Ta_ _ _ b
6. K_ _g_ _ _ M_ _n_ _ _
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Damn!!
_in_ori _wa_gi. 1+1? On 11/30/10, Claire Njoki <clairenjoki@gmail.com> wrote:
@ O_hia_bo Wa_hi_gt_n
I do not get K_ _g_ _ _ M_ _n_ _ _
Regards,
C_ai_e N_oki
On 11/30/10, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 3:27 PM, Fellow Skunk <fellowskunker@gmail.com>wrote:
Fill in the blanks
1. Mi_e S_ _k_ 2. Wi_ _ iam Ka_ _ _ _ 3. H_ _r_ Mw_ _ _ 4. Ha_ _ _ n J_h_ 5. T_ _ ib A _ i Ta_ _ _ b
6. K_ _g_ _ _ M_ _n_ _ _
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Damn!!
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
Kingori Mwangi................Nkt On 11/30/10, Fellow Skunk <fellowskunker@gmail.com> wrote:
_in_ori _wa_gi.
1+1?
On 11/30/10, Claire Njoki <clairenjoki@gmail.com> wrote:
@ O_hia_bo Wa_hi_gt_n
I do not get K_ _g_ _ _ M_ _n_ _ _
Regards,
C_ai_e N_oki
On 11/30/10, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 3:27 PM, Fellow Skunk <fellowskunker@gmail.com>wrote:
Fill in the blanks
1. Mi_e S_ _k_ 2. Wi_ _ iam Ka_ _ _ _ 3. H_ _r_ Mw_ _ _ 4. Ha_ _ _ n J_h_ 5. T_ _ ib A _ i Ta_ _ _ b
6. K_ _g_ _ _ M_ _n_ _ _
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Damn!!
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
On 30/11/2010, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 3:27 PM, Fellow Skunk <fellowskunker@gmail.com>wrote:
Fill in the blanks (just following instructions)
1. Mi_e S_ _k_ Mike Sonko (Gideon Mbuvi) 2. Wi_ _ iam Ka_ _ _ _ William Kabogo(My MP - NKTEST ) 3. H_ _r_ Mw_ _ _ Harun Mwau 4. Ha_ _ _ n J_h_ No idea have reached my ETC on this one!
5. T_ _ ib A _ i Ta_ _ _ b Taib Ali Taib
6. K_ _g_ _ _ M_ _n_ _ _ Who the Hell si this?
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Damn!!
-- *Solomon Mbũrũ Kamau* ***************************************************** *Man is a gregarious animal and enjoys agreement as cows will graze all the same way to the side of a hill!* AND *It is better to die in dignity than in the ignominy of ambiguous generosity! * http://smiley2.wordpress.com http://mburu.sikika.co.ke
@fellow skunker Ohhh...OK... On 11/30/10, Fellow Skunk <fellowskunker@gmail.com> wrote:
Fill in the blanks
1. Mi_e S_ _k_ 2. Wi_ _ iam Ka_ _ _ _ 3. H_ _r_ Mw_ _ _ 4. Ha_ _ _ n J_h_ 5. T_ _ ib A _ i Ta_ _ _ b
On 11/30/10, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:
@Claire,
Please ask Kibaki and Raila to name names, because they have the dossier from America, otherwise wait for one brave soul named Gitobu Imanyara to spill the beans.
I can only give the full names if some European (yes, not America) country offers to take me as their citizen.
Anyway, you know these guys. Just think harder:-)
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 3:19 PM, Claire Njoki <clairenjoki@gmail.com> wrote:
HM, WK, HJ, MS, KM ????
OK, I can guess who is HM and who is MS
But I have no idea who are: WK, HJ, KM
Are you scared of putting full names herein...a little bit chicken...or is it very dangerous to name names?
Quack Quack Quack...chicken...or is that the sound of a duck?
Claire.
On 11/30/10, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm very surprised at the naiveté of some of the responses to this matter. The US Embassy is here to represent AMERICAN interests. They're not here to just give money and attend press conferences. The same holds true for all the other embassies.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Damn!!
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
Brainiac, How about this one... is there a kenyan version of the American Presidency? :-) -----Original Message----- From: Brainiac <arebacollins@gmail.com> To: joe.njeru@gmail.com, Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] OT : Kenya Leaks version of Wikileaks Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 13:12:47 +0300 and a kenyan version of gmail... :-) On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 1:09 PM, Joe Murithi Njeru <joe.njeru@gmail.com> wrote: On that note is there a Kenyan version of wikipedia? -----Original Message----- From: Shadrack Mwaniki <shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> Reply-to: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Subject: [Skunkworks] OT : Kenya Leaks version of Wikileaks Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 01:39:27 -0800 (PST) Mailer: YahooMailRC/553 YahooMailWebService/0.8.107.285259 is there a Kenyan version of the wikileaks? _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke -- Regards, Joe Murithi Njeru LPI Certified Professional (www.lpi.org) Linux User: #361092 SIP: joe.njeru@ekiga.net Twitter: http://twitter.com/joenjeru Blog: http://www.joenjeru.com _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke -- Regards, Collins Areba. Strategic Operations. Center for Renewable Alternatives Old Ferry Road, off Msa Malindi Rd, | Kilifi, Kenya. +254 720 516758 /734 696821 | skype/gtalk/twitter: arebacollins -- Regards, Joe Murithi Njeru LPI Certified Professional (www.lpi.org) Linux User: #361092 SIP: joe.njeru@ekiga.net Twitter: http://twitter.com/joenjeru Blog: http://www.joenjeru.com
MarsGroup leak Imanyara Dossier! http://blog.marsgroupkenya.org/?p=2517 -----Original Message----- From: Brainiac <arebacollins@gmail.com> To: joe.njeru@gmail.com, Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] OT : Kenya Leaks version of Wikileaks Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 13:12:47 +0300 and a kenyan version of gmail... :-) On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 1:09 PM, Joe Murithi Njeru <joe.njeru@gmail.com> wrote: On that note is there a Kenyan version of wikipedia? -----Original Message----- From: Shadrack Mwaniki <shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> Reply-to: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Subject: [Skunkworks] OT : Kenya Leaks version of Wikileaks Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 01:39:27 -0800 (PST) Mailer: YahooMailRC/553 YahooMailWebService/0.8.107.285259 is there a Kenyan version of the wikileaks? _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke -- Regards, Joe Murithi Njeru LPI Certified Professional (www.lpi.org) Linux User: #361092 SIP: joe.njeru@ekiga.net Twitter: http://twitter.com/joenjeru Blog: http://www.joenjeru.com _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke -- Regards, Collins Areba. Strategic Operations. Center for Renewable Alternatives Old Ferry Road, off Msa Malindi Rd, | Kilifi, Kenya. +254 720 516758 /734 696821 | skype/gtalk/twitter: arebacollins -- Regards, Joe Murithi Njeru LPI Certified Professional (www.lpi.org) Linux User: #361092 SIP: joe.njeru@ekiga.net Twitter: http://twitter.com/joenjeru Blog: http://www.joenjeru.com
@Peter, it is absolutely essential to whine on the property subject..... :-) So Runda/Kitusuru = Over a Million bucks in property prices! In Seychelles, which I belive would be an ideal destination for those coming from colder climates, a Million USD will buy you this : http://www.primelocation.com/international-property/details/id/SYCH999000103... Let me get some time and I'm going to compile the 1 Million Dollar porpoerties around the world. Rgds.
And we will keep in mind these factors such as basic amenities : In Kenya : - Runda/Karen/Kitusuru has better roads because of creation of estate communities. In places the roads are bad enough that you need a 4X4. The local council/govt does nothing about the infrastructure. - Water. Nearly all have boreholes. Cost of borehole I'm told is around a million Ksh. - Electricity. Nearly all have generators, thus add fuel costs. Nothing to add here. - Security. ALL have the high fences, barbed wire, alarm and security backup Finally, I present to you the image of Nairobi via Satellite from which you can re-view the unfortunate reality of Nairobi. The poverty. The city is virtually enclosed by these below : http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=-1.292501,36.832352&spn=0.153769,0.2211&z... - Kibera - Mukuru - Muthurwa and Mathare - Kangemi - Not to forget very close to state house, there are such places too. Are we still going to deny that the property boom situation is not real? While we have large amounts of poverty, the reverse is going on in the property industry. Some amatuer thots from me. :-) On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 11:54 AM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
@Peter, it is absolutely essential to whine on the property subject..... :-)
So Runda/Kitusuru = Over a Million bucks in property prices!
In Seychelles, which I belive would be an ideal destination for those coming from colder climates, a Million USD will buy you this :
http://www.primelocation.com/international-property/details/id/SYCH999000103...
Let me get some time and I'm going to compile the 1 Million Dollar porpoerties around the world.
Rgds.
Please note Nairobi population approx 4million if you even take 5% of that to be well off thats 200,000....so a market does exist for high end properties. What im not sure about is if that market is not already adequately served. if you do 5% of 40 million, then you start to see where demand is coming from even in an undistorted market On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 12:23 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
And we will keep in mind these factors such as basic amenities :
In Kenya :
- Runda/Karen/Kitusuru has better roads because of creation of estate communities. In places the roads are bad enough that you need a 4X4. The local council/govt does nothing about the infrastructure.
- Water. Nearly all have boreholes. Cost of borehole I'm told is around a million Ksh.
- Electricity. Nearly all have generators, thus add fuel costs. Nothing to add here.
- Security. ALL have the high fences, barbed wire, alarm and security backup
Finally, I present to you the image of Nairobi via Satellite from which you can re-view the unfortunate reality of Nairobi. The poverty. The city is virtually enclosed by these below : http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=-1.292501,36.832352&spn=0.153769,0.2211&z...
- Kibera - Mukuru - Muthurwa and Mathare - Kangemi - Not to forget very close to state house, there are such places too.
Are we still going to deny that the property boom situation is not real? While we have large amounts of poverty, the reverse is going on in the property industry.
Some amatuer thots from me. :-)
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 11:54 AM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
@Peter, it is absolutely essential to whine on the property subject..... :-)
So Runda/Kitusuru = Over a Million bucks in property prices!
In Seychelles, which I belive would be an ideal destination for those coming from colder climates, a Million USD will buy you this :
http://www.primelocation.com/international-property/details/id/SYCH999000103...
Let me get some time and I'm going to compile the 1 Million Dollar porpoerties around the world.
Rgds.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.
As aki would say, me amateur thots :) --> Someone once told me that in times of economic uncertainity people rush to buy properties. Dont you sometimes get the feeling that you will be buying unga at sh. 1000 really soon (with the same current monthly earnings) ? That is why presently, most would rather take loans with ridiculous repayment terms to buy something they feel secure with. Thus it may not have anything to do with some `pharmacists` or fortunate `sea-farers` in our midst but a general sense of financial insecurity among the middle income earners and their more fortunate colleagues that is driving the prices up. Then there is the peculiar characteristic of us Kenyans all wanting the same thing at the same time. It happens with our calling habits, travelling up-country habits, or travelling-to-coast-for-christmas habits .. whatever the case, we find great security in numbers (or crowds). On 30 November 2010 04:49, Joram Mwinamo <joram.mwinamo@gmail.com> wrote:
Please note
Nairobi population approx 4million
if you even take 5% of that to be well off thats 200,000....so a market does exist for high end properties. What im not sure about is if that market is not already adequately served. if you do 5% of 40 million, then you start to see where demand is coming from even in an undistorted market
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 12:23 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
And we will keep in mind these factors such as basic amenities :
In Kenya :
- Runda/Karen/Kitusuru has better roads because of creation of estate communities. In places the roads are bad enough that you need a 4X4. The local council/govt does nothing about the infrastructure.
- Water. Nearly all have boreholes. Cost of borehole I'm told is around a million Ksh.
- Electricity. Nearly all have generators, thus add fuel costs. Nothing to add here.
- Security. ALL have the high fences, barbed wire, alarm and security backup
Finally, I present to you the image of Nairobi via Satellite from which you can re-view the unfortunate reality of Nairobi. The poverty. The city is virtually enclosed by these below : http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=-1.292501,36.832352&spn=0.153769,0.2211&z...
- Kibera - Mukuru - Muthurwa and Mathare - Kangemi - Not to forget very close to state house, there are such places too.
Are we still going to deny that the property boom situation is not real? While we have large amounts of poverty, the reverse is going on in the property industry.
Some amatuer thots from me. :-)
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 11:54 AM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
@Peter, it is absolutely essential to whine on the property subject..... :-)
So Runda/Kitusuru = Over a Million bucks in property prices!
In Seychelles, which I belive would be an ideal destination for those coming from colder climates, a Million USD will buy you this :
http://www.primelocation.com/international-property/details/id/SYCH999000103...
Let me get some time and I'm going to compile the 1 Million Dollar porpoerties around the world.
Rgds.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
is that also called herd mentality? Open a new pub and everyone flocks there. you cant even get standing space. we all want to be where everyone else is! On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 2:27 PM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote:
As aki would say, me amateur thots :) --> Someone once told me that in times of economic uncertainity people rush to buy properties. Dont you sometimes get the feeling that you will be buying unga at sh. 1000 really soon (with the same current monthly earnings) ? That is why presently, most would rather take loans with ridiculous repayment terms to buy something they feel secure with.
Thus it may not have anything to do with some `pharmacists` or fortunate `sea-farers` in our midst but a general sense of financial insecurity among the middle income earners and their more fortunate colleagues that is driving the prices up. Then there is the peculiar characteristic of us Kenyans all wanting the same thing at the same time. It happens with our calling habits, travelling up-country habits, or travelling-to-coast-for-christmas habits .. whatever the case, we find great security in numbers (or crowds).
On 30 November 2010 04:49, Joram Mwinamo <joram.mwinamo@gmail.com> wrote:
Please note
Nairobi population approx 4million
if you even take 5% of that to be well off thats 200,000....so a market does exist for high end properties. What im not sure about is if that market is not already adequately served. if you do 5% of 40 million, then you start to see where demand is coming from even in an undistorted market
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 12:23 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
And we will keep in mind these factors such as basic amenities :
In Kenya :
- Runda/Karen/Kitusuru has better roads because of creation of estate communities. In places the roads are bad enough that you need a 4X4. The local council/govt does nothing about the infrastructure.
- Water. Nearly all have boreholes. Cost of borehole I'm told is around a million Ksh.
- Electricity. Nearly all have generators, thus add fuel costs. Nothing to add here.
- Security. ALL have the high fences, barbed wire, alarm and security backup
Finally, I present to you the image of Nairobi via Satellite from which you can re-view the unfortunate reality of Nairobi. The poverty. The city is virtually enclosed by these below : http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=-1.292501,36.832352&spn=0.153769,0.2211&z...
- Kibera - Mukuru - Muthurwa and Mathare - Kangemi - Not to forget very close to state house, there are such places too.
Are we still going to deny that the property boom situation is not real? While we have large amounts of poverty, the reverse is going on in the property industry.
Some amatuer thots from me. :-)
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 11:54 AM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
@Peter, it is absolutely essential to whine on the property subject..... :-)
So Runda/Kitusuru = Over a Million bucks in property prices!
In Seychelles, which I belive would be an ideal destination for those coming from colder climates, a Million USD will buy you this :
http://www.primelocation.com/international-property/details/id/SYCH999000103...
Let me get some time and I'm going to compile the 1 Million Dollar porpoerties around the world.
Rgds.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
Herd mentality? Stalls and exhibitions in town Pyramid Schemes Electronics from Dubai Suits from Turkey Paraphanelia from China IPOs Joomla you name it, Kenyans have no originality and its mainly due to impatience....no one wants to develop something new and learn how to make it work through hard work and sweat, so we go for tried and tested, unfortunately by the time the herd is getting there, its time for money to be lost or very little to be shared amongst many On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 4:09 PM, Evans Ikua <ikua.evans@gmail.com> wrote:
is that also called herd mentality? Open a new pub and everyone flocks there. you cant even get standing space. we all want to be where everyone else is!
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 2:27 PM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote:
As aki would say, me amateur thots :) --> Someone once told me that in times of economic uncertainity people rush to buy properties. Dont you sometimes get the feeling that you will be buying unga at sh. 1000 really soon (with the same current monthly earnings) ? That is why presently, most would rather take loans with ridiculous repayment terms to buy something they feel secure with.
Thus it may not have anything to do with some `pharmacists` or fortunate `sea-farers` in our midst but a general sense of financial insecurity among the middle income earners and their more fortunate colleagues that is driving the prices up. Then there is the peculiar characteristic of us Kenyans all wanting the same thing at the same time. It happens with our calling habits, travelling up-country habits, or travelling-to-coast-for-christmas habits .. whatever the case, we find great security in numbers (or crowds).
On 30 November 2010 04:49, Joram Mwinamo <joram.mwinamo@gmail.com> wrote:
Please note
Nairobi population approx 4million
if you even take 5% of that to be well off thats 200,000....so a market does exist for high end properties. What im not sure about is if that market is not already adequately served. if you do 5% of 40 million, then you start to see where demand is coming from even in an undistorted market
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 12:23 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
And we will keep in mind these factors such as basic amenities :
In Kenya :
- Runda/Karen/Kitusuru has better roads because of creation of estate communities. In places the roads are bad enough that you need a 4X4. The local council/govt does nothing about the infrastructure.
- Water. Nearly all have boreholes. Cost of borehole I'm told is around a million Ksh.
- Electricity. Nearly all have generators, thus add fuel costs. Nothing to add here.
- Security. ALL have the high fences, barbed wire, alarm and security backup
Finally, I present to you the image of Nairobi via Satellite from which you can re-view the unfortunate reality of Nairobi. The poverty. The city is virtually enclosed by these below : http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=-1.292501,36.832352&spn=0.153769,0.2211&z...
- Kibera - Mukuru - Muthurwa and Mathare - Kangemi - Not to forget very close to state house, there are such places too.
Are we still going to deny that the property boom situation is not real? While we have large amounts of poverty, the reverse is going on in the property industry.
Some amatuer thots from me. :-)
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 11:54 AM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
@Peter, it is absolutely essential to whine on the property subject..... :-)
So Runda/Kitusuru = Over a Million bucks in property prices!
In Seychelles, which I belive would be an ideal destination for those coming from colder climates, a Million USD will buy you this :
http://www.primelocation.com/international-property/details/id/SYCH999000103...
Let me get some time and I'm going to compile the 1 Million Dollar porpoerties around the world.
Rgds.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.
constricting the behavior to being Kenyan is unfair. Everyone even the Europeans love free things and seek to belong to the in crowd. its not a kenyan syndrome but a human one. Now am wondering if the same astronomical rates for property are replicated across the country or its only in Nairobi and Mombasa? On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 4:19 PM, Joram Mwinamo <joram.mwinamo@gmail.com>wrote:
Herd mentality? Stalls and exhibitions in town Pyramid Schemes Electronics from Dubai Suits from Turkey Paraphanelia from China IPOs Joomla
you name it, Kenyans have no originality and its mainly due to impatience....no one wants to develop something new and learn how to make it work through hard work and sweat, so we go for tried and tested, unfortunately by the time the herd is getting there, its time for money to be lost or very little to be shared amongst many
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 4:09 PM, Evans Ikua <ikua.evans@gmail.com> wrote:
is that also called herd mentality? Open a new pub and everyone flocks there. you cant even get standing space. we all want to be where everyone else is!
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 2:27 PM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote:
As aki would say, me amateur thots :) --> Someone once told me that in times of economic uncertainity people rush to buy properties. Dont you sometimes get the feeling that you will be buying unga at sh. 1000 really soon (with the same current monthly earnings) ? That is why presently, most would rather take loans with ridiculous repayment terms to buy something they feel secure with.
Thus it may not have anything to do with some `pharmacists` or fortunate `sea-farers` in our midst but a general sense of financial insecurity among the middle income earners and their more fortunate colleagues that is driving the prices up. Then there is the peculiar characteristic of us Kenyans all wanting the same thing at the same time. It happens with our calling habits, travelling up-country habits, or travelling-to-coast-for-christmas habits .. whatever the case, we find great security in numbers (or crowds).
On 30 November 2010 04:49, Joram Mwinamo <joram.mwinamo@gmail.com>wrote:
Please note
Nairobi population approx 4million
if you even take 5% of that to be well off thats 200,000....so a market does exist for high end properties. What im not sure about is if that market is not already adequately served. if you do 5% of 40 million, then you start to see where demand is coming from even in an undistorted market
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 12:23 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
And we will keep in mind these factors such as basic amenities :
In Kenya :
- Runda/Karen/Kitusuru has better roads because of creation of estate communities. In places the roads are bad enough that you need a 4X4. The local council/govt does nothing about the infrastructure.
- Water. Nearly all have boreholes. Cost of borehole I'm told is around a million Ksh.
- Electricity. Nearly all have generators, thus add fuel costs. Nothing to add here.
- Security. ALL have the high fences, barbed wire, alarm and security backup
Finally, I present to you the image of Nairobi via Satellite from which you can re-view the unfortunate reality of Nairobi. The poverty. The city is virtually enclosed by these below : http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=-1.292501,36.832352&spn=0.153769,0.2211&z...
- Kibera - Mukuru - Muthurwa and Mathare - Kangemi - Not to forget very close to state house, there are such places too.
Are we still going to deny that the property boom situation is not real? While we have large amounts of poverty, the reverse is going on in the property industry.
Some amatuer thots from me. :-)
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 11:54 AM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
@Peter, it is absolutely essential to whine on the property subject..... :-)
So Runda/Kitusuru = Over a Million bucks in property prices!
In Seychelles, which I belive would be an ideal destination for those coming from colder climates, a Million USD will buy you this :
http://www.primelocation.com/international-property/details/id/SYCH999000103...
Let me get some time and I'm going to compile the 1 Million Dollar porpoerties around the world.
Rgds.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
So currently, the craze is "nunua ploti" "shinda ploti" "apartments for as low as 7.8M" etc We are also very specific about which locations we want to flock to : Syokimau, Athi River, Rongai, Kitengela or just an apartment. Meanwhile decently sized pieces of land are sanely priced in Kajiado, Machakos, Limuru, Kijabe etc But no, no-one wants to live on an acre or 2 on Magadi road or Kijabe or Mai-Mahiu, we all want to live within spitting distance with our neighbours .. at any price. The madness of the prices reflects our own. On 30 November 2010 08:19, Joram Mwinamo <joram.mwinamo@gmail.com> wrote:
Herd mentality? Stalls and exhibitions in town Pyramid Schemes Electronics from Dubai Suits from Turkey Paraphanelia from China IPOs Joomla
you name it, Kenyans have no originality and its mainly due to impatience....no one wants to develop something new and learn how to make it work through hard work and sweat, so we go for tried and tested, unfortunately by the time the herd is getting there, its time for money to be lost or very little to be shared amongst many
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 4:09 PM, Evans Ikua <ikua.evans@gmail.com> wrote:
is that also called herd mentality? Open a new pub and everyone flocks there. you cant even get standing space. we all want to be where everyone else is!
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 2:27 PM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote:
As aki would say, me amateur thots :) --> Someone once told me that in times of economic uncertainity people rush to buy properties. Dont you sometimes get the feeling that you will be buying unga at sh. 1000 really soon (with the same current monthly earnings) ? That is why presently, most would rather take loans with ridiculous repayment terms to buy something they feel secure with.
Thus it may not have anything to do with some `pharmacists` or fortunate `sea-farers` in our midst but a general sense of financial insecurity among the middle income earners and their more fortunate colleagues that is driving the prices up. Then there is the peculiar characteristic of us Kenyans all wanting the same thing at the same time. It happens with our calling habits, travelling up-country habits, or travelling-to-coast-for-christmas habits .. whatever the case, we find great security in numbers (or crowds).
On 30 November 2010 04:49, Joram Mwinamo <joram.mwinamo@gmail.com>wrote:
Please note
Nairobi population approx 4million
if you even take 5% of that to be well off thats 200,000....so a market does exist for high end properties. What im not sure about is if that market is not already adequately served. if you do 5% of 40 million, then you start to see where demand is coming from even in an undistorted market
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 12:23 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
And we will keep in mind these factors such as basic amenities :
In Kenya :
- Runda/Karen/Kitusuru has better roads because of creation of estate communities. In places the roads are bad enough that you need a 4X4. The local council/govt does nothing about the infrastructure.
- Water. Nearly all have boreholes. Cost of borehole I'm told is around a million Ksh.
- Electricity. Nearly all have generators, thus add fuel costs. Nothing to add here.
- Security. ALL have the high fences, barbed wire, alarm and security backup
Finally, I present to you the image of Nairobi via Satellite from which you can re-view the unfortunate reality of Nairobi. The poverty. The city is virtually enclosed by these below : http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=-1.292501,36.832352&spn=0.153769,0.2211&z...
- Kibera - Mukuru - Muthurwa and Mathare - Kangemi - Not to forget very close to state house, there are such places too.
Are we still going to deny that the property boom situation is not real? While we have large amounts of poverty, the reverse is going on in the property industry.
Some amatuer thots from me. :-)
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 11:54 AM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
@Peter, it is absolutely essential to whine on the property subject..... :-)
So Runda/Kitusuru = Over a Million bucks in property prices!
In Seychelles, which I belive would be an ideal destination for those coming from colder climates, a Million USD will buy you this :
http://www.primelocation.com/international-property/details/id/SYCH999000103...
Let me get some time and I'm going to compile the 1 Million Dollar porpoerties around the world.
Rgds.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
Some pal who is currently finishing university told me that she will go set up a boutique business next to a very successful one back in her county. apparently the plan here is to tap into the existing clientèle of the existing boutique then offer reduced prices. That is the business plan ....
Sunny Bindra is launching his book *The Peculiar Kenyan* this Saturday in which he addresses the question (among others), "Why are we mimics in everything we do?" Not surprisingly, Michael Joseph has strongly endorsed the book, and I am guessing it will employ a healthy dose of sarcasm to address the phenomena Joram has described below... 2010/11/30 Joram Mwinamo <joram.mwinamo@gmail.com>
Herd mentality? Stalls and exhibitions in town Pyramid Schemes Electronics from Dubai Suits from Turkey Paraphanelia from China IPOs Joomla
you name it, Kenyans have no originality and its mainly due to impatience....no one wants to develop something new and learn how to make it work through hard work and sweat, so we go for tried and tested, unfortunately by the time the herd is getting there, its time for money to be lost or very little to be shared amongst many
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 4:09 PM, Evans Ikua <ikua.evans@gmail.com> wrote:
is that also called herd mentality? Open a new pub and everyone flocks there. you cant even get standing space. we all want to be where everyone else is!
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 2:27 PM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote:
As aki would say, me amateur thots :) --> Someone once told me that in times of economic uncertainity people rush to buy properties. Dont you sometimes get the feeling that you will be buying unga at sh. 1000 really soon (with the same current monthly earnings) ? That is why presently, most would rather take loans with ridiculous repayment terms to buy something they feel secure with.
Thus it may not have anything to do with some `pharmacists` or fortunate `sea-farers` in our midst but a general sense of financial insecurity among the middle income earners and their more fortunate colleagues that is driving the prices up. Then there is the peculiar characteristic of us Kenyans all wanting the same thing at the same time. It happens with our calling habits, travelling up-country habits, or travelling-to-coast-for-christmas habits .. whatever the case, we find great security in numbers (or crowds).
On 30 November 2010 04:49, Joram Mwinamo <joram.mwinamo@gmail.com>wrote:
Please note
Nairobi population approx 4million
if you even take 5% of that to be well off thats 200,000....so a market does exist for high end properties. What im not sure about is if that market is not already adequately served. if you do 5% of 40 million, then you start to see where demand is coming from even in an undistorted market
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 12:23 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
And we will keep in mind these factors such as basic amenities :
In Kenya :
- Runda/Karen/Kitusuru has better roads because of creation of estate communities. In places the roads are bad enough that you need a 4X4. The local council/govt does nothing about the infrastructure.
- Water. Nearly all have boreholes. Cost of borehole I'm told is around a million Ksh.
- Electricity. Nearly all have generators, thus add fuel costs. Nothing to add here.
- Security. ALL have the high fences, barbed wire, alarm and security backup
Finally, I present to you the image of Nairobi via Satellite from which you can re-view the unfortunate reality of Nairobi. The poverty. The city is virtually enclosed by these below : http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=-1.292501,36.832352&spn=0.153769,0.2211&z...
- Kibera - Mukuru - Muthurwa and Mathare - Kangemi - Not to forget very close to state house, there are such places too.
Are we still going to deny that the property boom situation is not real? While we have large amounts of poverty, the reverse is going on in the property industry.
Some amatuer thots from me. :-)
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 11:54 AM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
@Peter, it is absolutely essential to whine on the property subject..... :-)
So Runda/Kitusuru = Over a Million bucks in property prices!
In Seychelles, which I belive would be an ideal destination for those coming from colder climates, a Million USD will buy you this :
http://www.primelocation.com/international-property/details/id/SYCH999000103...
Let me get some time and I'm going to compile the 1 Million Dollar porpoerties around the world.
Rgds.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
I saw the book in Uchumi koinange. going for 900/= On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Christopher Kiagiri <ck@google.com> wrote:
Sunny Bindra is launching his book *The Peculiar Kenyan* this Saturday in which he addresses the question (among others), "Why are we mimics in everything we do?" Not surprisingly, Michael Joseph has strongly endorsed the book, and I am guessing it will employ a healthy dose of sarcasm to address the phenomena Joram has described below...
2010/11/30 Joram Mwinamo <joram.mwinamo@gmail.com>
Herd mentality?
Stalls and exhibitions in town Pyramid Schemes Electronics from Dubai Suits from Turkey Paraphanelia from China IPOs Joomla
you name it, Kenyans have no originality and its mainly due to impatience....no one wants to develop something new and learn how to make it work through hard work and sweat, so we go for tried and tested, unfortunately by the time the herd is getting there, its time for money to be lost or very little to be shared amongst many
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 4:09 PM, Evans Ikua <ikua.evans@gmail.com> wrote:
is that also called herd mentality? Open a new pub and everyone flocks there. you cant even get standing space. we all want to be where everyone else is!
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 2:27 PM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote:
As aki would say, me amateur thots :) --> Someone once told me that in times of economic uncertainity people rush to buy properties. Dont you sometimes get the feeling that you will be buying unga at sh. 1000 really soon (with the same current monthly earnings) ? That is why presently, most would rather take loans with ridiculous repayment terms to buy something they feel secure with.
Thus it may not have anything to do with some `pharmacists` or fortunate `sea-farers` in our midst but a general sense of financial insecurity among the middle income earners and their more fortunate colleagues that is driving the prices up. Then there is the peculiar characteristic of us Kenyans all wanting the same thing at the same time. It happens with our calling habits, travelling up-country habits, or travelling-to-coast-for-christmas habits .. whatever the case, we find great security in numbers (or crowds).
On 30 November 2010 04:49, Joram Mwinamo <joram.mwinamo@gmail.com>wrote:
Please note
Nairobi population approx 4million
if you even take 5% of that to be well off thats 200,000....so a market does exist for high end properties. What im not sure about is if that market is not already adequately served. if you do 5% of 40 million, then you start to see where demand is coming from even in an undistorted market
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 12:23 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
And we will keep in mind these factors such as basic amenities :
In Kenya :
- Runda/Karen/Kitusuru has better roads because of creation of estate communities. In places the roads are bad enough that you need a 4X4. The local council/govt does nothing about the infrastructure.
- Water. Nearly all have boreholes. Cost of borehole I'm told is around a million Ksh.
- Electricity. Nearly all have generators, thus add fuel costs. Nothing to add here.
- Security. ALL have the high fences, barbed wire, alarm and security backup
Finally, I present to you the image of Nairobi via Satellite from which you can re-view the unfortunate reality of Nairobi. The poverty. The city is virtually enclosed by these below : http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=-1.292501,36.832352&spn=0.153769,0.2211&z...
- Kibera - Mukuru - Muthurwa and Mathare - Kangemi - Not to forget very close to state house, there are such places too.
Are we still going to deny that the property boom situation is not real? While we have large amounts of poverty, the reverse is going on in the property industry.
Some amatuer thots from me. :-)
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 11:54 AM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
> @Peter, it is absolutely essential to whine on the > property subject..... :-) > > So Runda/Kitusuru = Over a Million bucks in property prices! > > In Seychelles, which I belive would be an ideal destination for those > coming from colder climates, a Million USD will buy you this : > > > http://www.primelocation.com/international-property/details/id/SYCH999000103... > > Let me get some time and I'm going to compile the 1 Million Dollar > porpoerties around the world. > > Rgds. > > > >
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards http://www.software.co.ke ------------------------------------------------------------------ "The all-powerful warrior who, because of his endurance and inflexible will to win, goes from conquest to conquest, leaving fire in his wake."
And now everyone is going to buy it :) -Billy 2010/11/30 Peter Muchemi <pmuchemi@gmail.com>
I saw the book in Uchumi koinange. going for 900/=
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Christopher Kiagiri <ck@google.com>wrote:
Sunny Bindra is launching his book *The Peculiar Kenyan* this Saturday in which he addresses the question (among others), "Why are we mimics in everything we do?" Not surprisingly, Michael Joseph has strongly endorsed the book, and I am guessing it will employ a healthy dose of sarcasm to address the phenomena Joram has described below...
2010/11/30 Joram Mwinamo <joram.mwinamo@gmail.com>
Herd mentality?
Stalls and exhibitions in town Pyramid Schemes Electronics from Dubai Suits from Turkey Paraphanelia from China IPOs Joomla
you name it, Kenyans have no originality and its mainly due to impatience....no one wants to develop something new and learn how to make it work through hard work and sweat, so we go for tried and tested, unfortunately by the time the herd is getting there, its time for money to be lost or very little to be shared amongst many
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 4:09 PM, Evans Ikua <ikua.evans@gmail.com>wrote:
is that also called herd mentality? Open a new pub and everyone flocks there. you cant even get standing space. we all want to be where everyone else is!
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 2:27 PM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote:
As aki would say, me amateur thots :) --> Someone once told me that in times of economic uncertainity people rush to buy properties. Dont you sometimes get the feeling that you will be buying unga at sh. 1000 really soon (with the same current monthly earnings) ? That is why presently, most would rather take loans with ridiculous repayment terms to buy something they feel secure with.
Thus it may not have anything to do with some `pharmacists` or fortunate `sea-farers` in our midst but a general sense of financial insecurity among the middle income earners and their more fortunate colleagues that is driving the prices up. Then there is the peculiar characteristic of us Kenyans all wanting the same thing at the same time. It happens with our calling habits, travelling up-country habits, or travelling-to-coast-for-christmas habits .. whatever the case, we find great security in numbers (or crowds).
On 30 November 2010 04:49, Joram Mwinamo <joram.mwinamo@gmail.com>wrote:
Please note
Nairobi population approx 4million
if you even take 5% of that to be well off thats 200,000....so a market does exist for high end properties. What im not sure about is if that market is not already adequately served. if you do 5% of 40 million, then you start to see where demand is coming from even in an undistorted market
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 12:23 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
> And we will keep in mind these factors such as basic amenities : > > In Kenya : > > - Runda/Karen/Kitusuru has better roads because of creation of estate > communities. In places the roads are bad enough that you need a 4X4. The > local council/govt does nothing about the infrastructure. > > - Water. Nearly all have boreholes. Cost of borehole I'm told is > around a million Ksh. > > - Electricity. Nearly all have generators, thus add fuel costs. > Nothing to add here. > > - Security. ALL have the high fences, barbed wire, alarm and security > backup > > Finally, I present to you the image of Nairobi via Satellite from > which you can re-view the unfortunate reality of Nairobi. The poverty. The > city is virtually enclosed by these below : > http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=-1.292501,36.832352&spn=0.153769,0.2211&z... > > > - Kibera > - Mukuru > - Muthurwa and Mathare > - Kangemi > - Not to forget very close to state house, there are such places too. > > Are we still going to deny that the property boom situation is not > real? While we have large amounts of poverty, the reverse is going on in the > property industry. > > Some amatuer thots from me. :-) > > > On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 11:54 AM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote: > >> @Peter, it is absolutely essential to whine on the >> property subject..... :-) >> >> So Runda/Kitusuru = Over a Million bucks in property prices! >> >> In Seychelles, which I belive would be an ideal destination for >> those coming from colder climates, a Million USD will buy you this : >> >> >> http://www.primelocation.com/international-property/details/id/SYCH999000103... >> >> Let me get some time and I'm going to compile the 1 Million Dollar >> porpoerties around the world. >> >> Rgds. >> >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Skunkworks mailing list > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
-- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.
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-- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.
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-- Regards
http://www.software.co.ke ------------------------------------------------------------------ "The all-powerful warrior who, because of his endurance and inflexible will to win, goes from conquest to conquest, leaving fire in his wake."
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and we will all meet at the bookshop at the same time! On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 5:47 PM, Billy <billyx5@gmail.com> wrote:
And now everyone is going to buy it :)
-Billy
2010/11/30 Peter Muchemi <pmuchemi@gmail.com>
I saw the book in Uchumi koinange. going for 900/=
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Christopher Kiagiri <ck@google.com>wrote:
Sunny Bindra is launching his book *The Peculiar Kenyan* this Saturday in which he addresses the question (among others), "Why are we mimics in everything we do?" Not surprisingly, Michael Joseph has strongly endorsed the book, and I am guessing it will employ a healthy dose of sarcasm to address the phenomena Joram has described below...
2010/11/30 Joram Mwinamo <joram.mwinamo@gmail.com>
Herd mentality?
Stalls and exhibitions in town Pyramid Schemes Electronics from Dubai Suits from Turkey Paraphanelia from China IPOs Joomla
you name it, Kenyans have no originality and its mainly due to impatience....no one wants to develop something new and learn how to make it work through hard work and sweat, so we go for tried and tested, unfortunately by the time the herd is getting there, its time for money to be lost or very little to be shared amongst many
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 4:09 PM, Evans Ikua <ikua.evans@gmail.com>wrote:
is that also called herd mentality? Open a new pub and everyone flocks there. you cant even get standing space. we all want to be where everyone else is!
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 2:27 PM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com>wrote:
As aki would say, me amateur thots :) --> Someone once told me that in times of economic uncertainity people rush to buy properties. Dont you sometimes get the feeling that you will be buying unga at sh. 1000 really soon (with the same current monthly earnings) ? That is why presently, most would rather take loans with ridiculous repayment terms to buy something they feel secure with.
Thus it may not have anything to do with some `pharmacists` or fortunate `sea-farers` in our midst but a general sense of financial insecurity among the middle income earners and their more fortunate colleagues that is driving the prices up. Then there is the peculiar characteristic of us Kenyans all wanting the same thing at the same time. It happens with our calling habits, travelling up-country habits, or travelling-to-coast-for-christmas habits .. whatever the case, we find great security in numbers (or crowds).
On 30 November 2010 04:49, Joram Mwinamo <joram.mwinamo@gmail.com>wrote:
> Please note > > Nairobi population approx 4million > > if you even take 5% of that to be well off thats 200,000....so a > market does exist for high end properties. What im not sure about is if that > market is not already adequately served. if you do 5% of 40 million, then > you start to see where demand is coming from even in an undistorted market > > On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 12:23 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote: > >> And we will keep in mind these factors such as basic amenities : >> >> In Kenya : >> >> - Runda/Karen/Kitusuru has better roads because of creation of >> estate communities. In places the roads are bad enough that you need a 4X4. >> The local council/govt does nothing about the infrastructure. >> >> - Water. Nearly all have boreholes. Cost of borehole I'm told is >> around a million Ksh. >> >> - Electricity. Nearly all have generators, thus add fuel costs. >> Nothing to add here. >> >> - Security. ALL have the high fences, barbed wire, alarm and >> security backup >> >> Finally, I present to you the image of Nairobi via Satellite from >> which you can re-view the unfortunate reality of Nairobi. The poverty. The >> city is virtually enclosed by these below : >> http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=-1.292501,36.832352&spn=0.153769,0.2211&z... >> >> >> - Kibera >> - Mukuru >> - Muthurwa and Mathare >> - Kangemi >> - Not to forget very close to state house, there are such places >> too. >> >> Are we still going to deny that the property boom situation is not >> real? While we have large amounts of poverty, the reverse is going on in the >> property industry. >> >> Some amatuer thots from me. :-) >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 11:54 AM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> @Peter, it is absolutely essential to whine on the >>> property subject..... :-) >>> >>> So Runda/Kitusuru = Over a Million bucks in property prices! >>> >>> In Seychelles, which I belive would be an ideal destination for >>> those coming from colder climates, a Million USD will buy you this : >>> >>> >>> http://www.primelocation.com/international-property/details/id/SYCH999000103... >>> >>> Let me get some time and I'm going to compile the 1 Million Dollar >>> porpoerties around the world. >>> >>> Rgds. >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Skunkworks mailing list >> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >> ------------ >> Skunkworks Rules >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >> ------------ >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >> > > > > -- > Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are > powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens > us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't > feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give > other people permission to do the same. > As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically > liberates others. > > _______________________________________________ > Skunkworks mailing list > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
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-- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
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-- Regards
http://www.software.co.ke ------------------------------------------------------------------ "The all-powerful warrior who, because of his endurance and inflexible will to win, goes from conquest to conquest, leaving fire in his wake."
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An interesting article on BD : Parliament’s Budget Office (PBO) says the answer lies in Kenya’s large and rapidly expanding underground or grey economy that is never captured in official data but now accounts for nearly half of the country’s Gross Domestic Product. Kenya’s underground economy has expanded rapidly in the past five years to become a mammoth Sh825 billion industry that is denying the government at least Sh275 billion in uncollected revenues, the PBO says. This means Kenya Revenue Authority (KRA) is tapping only half of the estimated Sh750 billion tax revenues potential, leaving those already in the tax bracket with the heavy burden of financing public services and ultimately economic growth and effectively means the national economy is nearly twice the current estimate of Sh1.6 trillion. The underground economy – commonly defined as commercial transactions that go unreported or unrecorded for tax purposes – has traditionally been made up of hawkers, small-scale farmers, carpenters, dressmakers, watchmen, construction workers and domestic workers (maids and gardeners). In the past couple of years however, the real estate and agriculture sectors have attracted big money without a commensurate rise in tax revenues raising doubts on the effectiveness of the revenue collection machinery. http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate%20News/Underground%20economy%20...
Why is that article being so nice and naive about it? 1. Ministers and MPs are involved in Drug peddling, we know them and they continue to operate in broad daylight(TAX THAT!) 2. Eldoret Airport is used to import stuff without paying taxes comensurate to the products. Someone at KRA told me "officials know it very well" but even she cant risk whistleblowing unless he/she doesnt love his/her life. If you are in import business and paying taxes and wondering why you cant be competitive in pricing, now you know the answer. A KRA official told a friend of mine at JKIA "why not import through eldoret airport? You are paying very high taxes!" tsk tsk and one Commissioner general keeps defending them..... 3. Some well connected individuals are involved in a similar cartel at KPA in mombasa, if you import through them(as exposed on TV and the operator still in operation) then you pay no Taxes Let the journalists of BDAfrica not talk about a grey economy, its only grey to the govt.....its black and white to us....and that really annoys me when I pay hefty taxes and see others not doing the same and driving Range Rover Sports.....what signal do we send to our youth?<end of vent> On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 8:40 AM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
An interesting article on BD :
Parliament’s Budget Office (PBO) says the answer lies in Kenya’s large and rapidly expanding underground or grey economy that is never captured in official data but now accounts for nearly half of the country’s Gross Domestic Product. Kenya’s underground economy has expanded rapidly in the past five years to become a mammoth Sh825 billion industry that is denying the government at least Sh275 billion in uncollected revenues, the PBO says. This means Kenya Revenue Authority (KRA) is tapping only half of the estimated Sh750 billion tax revenues potential, leaving those already in the tax bracket with the heavy burden of financing public services and ultimately economic growth and effectively means the national economy is nearly twice the current estimate of Sh1.6 trillion.
The underground economy – commonly defined as commercial transactions that go unreported or unrecorded for tax purposes – has traditionally been made up of hawkers, small-scale farmers, carpenters, dressmakers, watchmen, construction workers and domestic workers (maids and gardeners).
In the past couple of years however, the real estate and agriculture sectors have attracted big money without a commensurate rise in tax revenues raising doubts on the effectiveness of the revenue collection machinery.
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate%20News/Underground%20economy%20...
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-- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.
You can also get them to report to work with a Live CD, boot into it, and upload stuff to http://wikileaks.org/media/submissions.html (when they reopen submissions) . You no longer have to go to KACC to report corruption, you can upload the evidence and let us find it
Interesting, although the article has a number of fallacies. There's no way an "underground economy" can fail to bring about economic growth. Given that the private sector is generally known to allocate capital in a more efficient manner than government, the attendant growth should actually be stronger than when part of the cash is given to the taxman. (Don't get me wrong, I'm not against taxation). The fact that govt cannot capture the growth is another matter. The burden is not going to be lighter on current tax payers if the non-payers do pay... Unless parliament decides to reduce taxation rates, the govt decides to subsidize fuel / electricity / water costs and other cool things that other govts do. I really wonder how much our government finances our economic growth. Obviously, the gray economy is going to drain more and more cash from the formal sector with time. The other danger I see is that the owners of this cash are unknown - such people can emboldened to do strange things to protect themselves.... So, what is the solution? The govt can easily cash in by raising VAT on construction materials to something like 35%. Currently, builders of 20+ units of "low" cost housing are VAT exempt - so this income bracket is sorted. Those who want to build VAT free may be forced to for a cooperative or some vehicle that will somehow mainstream the cash. I also don't have any problem with all the gray money diverting to agriculture or manufacturing or even education. My 2 cents ________________________________ From: aki <aki275@gmail.com> To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Sent: Tue, November 30, 2010 11:40:31 PM Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] OT : Kenya's real estate boom fake or real? An interesting article on BD : Parliament’s Budget Office (PBO) says the answer lies in Kenya’s large and rapidly expanding underground or grey economy that is never captured in official data but now accounts for nearly half of the country’s Gross Domestic Product. Kenya’s underground economy has expanded rapidly in the past five years to become a mammoth Sh825 billion industry that is denying the government at least Sh275 billion in uncollected revenues, the PBO says. This means Kenya Revenue Authority (KRA) is tapping only half of the estimated Sh750 billion tax revenues potential, leaving those already in the tax bracket with the heavy burden of financing public services and ultimately economic growth and effectively means the national economy is nearly twice the current estimate of Sh1.6 trillion. The underground economy – commonly defined as commercial transactions that go unreported or unrecorded for tax purposes – has traditionally been made up of hawkers, small-scale farmers, carpenters, dressmakers, watchmen, construction workers and domestic workers (maids and gardeners). In the past couple of years however, the real estate and agriculture sectors have attracted big money without a commensurate rise in tax revenues raising doubts on the effectiveness of the revenue collection machinery. http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate%20News/Underground%20economy%20...
On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 8:40 AM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
The underground economy – commonly defined as commercial transactions that go unreported or unrecorded for tax purposes – has traditionally been made up of hawkers, small-scale farmers, carpenters, dressmakers, watchmen, construction workers and domestic workers (maids and gardeners).
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate%20News/Underground%20economy%20...
Incredible.... how government press releases are being passed of as "business articles" ...
I was thinking today morning that this thing is overhyped. Im sure the kenyan government says more damning things about the US govt and im not sure iraq diplomatic corps say nice things about the american govt. I dont see why they are apologizing for saying the truth of the matter of how they see things..... On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 10:02 AM, <ashok+skunkworks@parliaments.info<ashok%2Bskunkworks@parliaments.info>
wrote:
On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 8:40 AM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
The underground economy – commonly defined as commercial transactions that go unreported or unrecorded for tax purposes – has traditionally been made up of hawkers, small-scale farmers, carpenters, dressmakers, watchmen, construction workers and domestic workers (maids and gardeners).
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate%20News/Underground%20economy%20...
Incredible.... how government press releases are being passed of as "business articles" ...
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-- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.
@Evans, lol! :-)) move to cape town..... The thing is for me the property issue is an indictation that the ecomony is on a serious slide towards a crash. Either there is too much stolen money in circulation and when this stops a lot of genuine people are going to loose money or there is even a bigger financial problem brewing. Take the example of Mkesho, this a something that KRA should have gone into and queried the source of funds. Being selective as the govt organs are, they are creating more problems for the future. Central Bank is a mere bystander and cheering on the financial mis-management of kenya letting the economy slide to worse in the next few years. There is absolutely no sense whatsover in the property boom bceause we are still unable to say what are the sources of the money? You can sell expensive if the the market will buy it. And the market for expensive buyers is booming. Totally defeats any logic! An amatuer view. Me thots. On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Evans Ikua <ikua.evans@gmail.com> wrote:
Fine, lets all head to Cape Town! I thought cape Town is where the rich in SA live? I think Jo Burg also has cheaper property compared to Nairobi. But its very true that property prices in Nairobi are bloated. A friend who lives in London tells me that prices here are comparable to London to some extent! Doesnt make sense at all.
one word....diaspora On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 8:52 AM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
I read various articles on the amount of new construction going on and this sector to me is quite baffling. I think the recent report by the CBK puts home mortgages at around 14,000 kenyans. Our borrowing bank interest rates and repayments are still too high compared to incomes. Where are people getting the money to buy/invest into real estate because everywhere you see, some new construction on residetial types is coming up and also being sold quite fast. Property prices have really shot up while earnings have not increased in comparison. So who is buying these expensive properties?
Any economist here in skunks KE to add some insights. :-)
Rgds.
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On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 9:40 AM, Nicholas Mutinda <mutindah@gmail.com>wrote:
one word....diaspora
On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 8:52 AM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
I read various articles on the amount of new construction going on and this sector to me is quite baffling. I think the recent report by the CBK puts home mortgages at around 14,000 kenyans. Our borrowing bank interest rates and repayments are still too high compared to incomes. Where are people getting the money to buy/invest into real estate because everywhere you see, some new construction on residetial types is coming up and also being sold quite fast. Property prices have really shot up while earnings have not increased in comparison. So who is buying these expensive properties?
Any economist here in skunks KE to add some insights. :-)
Rgds.
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Pirate Money?? -- Lusiola Brian |3 R 1 /-\ |\|
Equation is easy Booming economy = country in growth = bank has plenty of money to spend = buy land at low price while it is still possible and build complex = and they don't care if they rent the place or not as long since they own most of the land and thus control the price (like that Emirates family who own all the Picasso paintings, since he has them all, he can control the price market) ... This is capitalism... Rich get richer, poor get poorer... Last, someone told me that in Nairobi, the market is own by the same people, either rich guy who started in 2000 (after Kibaki election) or banks. Just watch "The Inside Job" - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1645089/ - a documentary movie about financial crises of 2008... and you will learn that banks are the one playing with the land/construction market. In Spain, there are hectares of empty houses [image: TheBigBoss] *TheBigBoss* *Nairobi, Kenya* *Email:* TheBigBoss@peperuka.com [image: Peperuka]<http://feeds.feedburner.com/%7Er/Peperuka/%7E6/3> ------------------------------ Suivez-moi: [image: Facebook]<http://www.facebook.com/pages/Peperuka/278303802985>[image: Twitter] <http://twitter.com/Peperuka> On 29 November 2010 08:52, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
I read various articles on the amount of new construction going on and this sector to me is quite baffling. I think the recent report by the CBK puts home mortgages at around 14,000 kenyans. Our borrowing bank interest rates and repayments are still too high compared to incomes. Where are people getting the money to buy/invest into real estate because everywhere you see, some new construction on residetial types is coming up and also being sold quite fast. Property prices have really shot up while earnings have not increased in comparison. So who is buying these expensive properties?
Any economist here in skunks KE to add some insights. :-)
Rgds.
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participants (32)
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＠dutchezjuma -
aki -
Amarjit Labhuram -
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Athar Ahmad Bhatti -
Bernard Owuor -
Billy -
Brainiac -
Brian L -
Charles Negera -
Christopher Kiagiri -
Claire Njoki -
Dennis Kioko -
Eric Mugo -
Evans Ikua -
Fellow Skunk -
Joe Murithi Njeru -
Joram Mwinamo -
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Mark Mwangi -
Ndungi Kyalo -
Nicholas Mutinda -
Odhiambo Washington -
Peter Muchemi -
Peter Osotsi -
Rad! -
Shadrack Mwaniki -
Simon Mbuthia -
Solomon Mburu Kamau -
TheBigBoss -
Thomas Kibui -
Victor Ngeny