I'd prefer a name derived from a Swahili word like one of the following : 'Ujira' - malipo ya mtu aliyeajiriwa. OR 'Ajira' - hali ya kuajiriwa. then there's the more obvious 'Mshahara' - ujira unaolipwa kila mwisho wa mwezi. -- Ndungi Kyalo "if you want to go fast go alone, if you want to go far get company" Follow me on twitter @ndungikyalo biblia.kenya.or.ke On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 8:38 AM, Nick Wambugu <nick.wambugu@gmail.com> wrote:

KENPAY Wambugu

2009/10/8 David Mugo <raidarmax@gmail.com>

Hey...

...

How about kenroll :-)

Am interested.

David.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 11:31 AM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com>wrote:

...

If you read my post the other day, this should not sound new......

So the decision to make a free payroll system (geared towards kenyan market) has been made.....a coding team will be put together soon.

We are looking for people with knowledge on payroll processing who are willing to contribute by giving us requirements and testing the same.....mainly on email and chat.

Developers interested (we will mainly use PHP and MYSQL).....please email me directly....

But even before we start.......we need a name (or codename)........

Please send in some suggestions......am sure we will credit you in the final product......

Haya.....

Regards

Kioko

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LIPA And other permutations such as MALIPO, NILIPE :) -- Josiah Mugambi Pablo Picasso<http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/p/pablo_picasso.html> - "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Ken Etsula <ken.etsula@kdn.co.ke> wrote:

Kioko,

Do you want to do purely a payroll system or something like Orange which will also have some HR functions e.t.c

----- Original Message ----- *From:* Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> *To:* Skunkworks Forum <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Sent:* Thursday, October 08, 2009 11:46 AM *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] FREE PAYROLL - SUGGEST A NAME

I'd prefer a name derived from a Swahili word like one of the following :

'Ujira' - malipo ya mtu aliyeajiriwa.

OR

'Ajira' - hali ya kuajiriwa.

then there's the more obvious 'Mshahara' - ujira unaolipwa kila mwisho wa mwezi.

-- Ndungi Kyalo

"if you want to go fast go alone, if you want to go far get company" Follow me on twitter @ndungikyalo biblia.kenya.or.ke

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 8:38 AM, Nick Wambugu <nick.wambugu@gmail.com>wrote:

...

KENPAY Wambugu

2009/10/8 David Mugo <raidarmax@gmail.com>

Hey...

...

How about kenroll :-)

Am interested.

David.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 11:31 AM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com>wrote:

...

If you read my post the other day, this should not sound new......

So the decision to make a free payroll system (geared towards kenyan market) has been made.....a coding team will be put together soon.

We are looking for people with knowledge on payroll processing who are willing to contribute by giving us requirements and testing the same.....mainly on email and chat.

Developers interested (we will mainly use PHP and MYSQL).....please email me directly....

But even before we start.......we need a name (or codename)........

Please send in some suggestions......am sure we will credit you in the final product......

Haya.....

Regards

Kioko

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------------------------------

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I would also like to encourage participation other than coding. Documentation & manuals normally fall by the wayside and will be crucial for the success of such a project given the system won't be primarily used by adventurous techies. On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Solomon Mburu <solo.mburu@gmail.com> wrote:

My choices: AJIRA, KENROLL SOURCE or SYSTEM and TARAJIRA{taratibu+ajira}!

On 08/10/2009, Josiah Mugambi <jmugambi@gmail.com> wrote:

...

LIPA And other permutations such as MALIPO, NILIPE :)

-- Josiah Mugambi Pablo Picasso<http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/p/pablo_picasso.html> - "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers."

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Ken Etsula <ken.etsula@kdn.co.ke> wrote:

...

Kioko,

Do you want to do purely a payroll system or something like Orange which will also have some HR functions e.t.c

----- Original Message ----- *From:* Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> *To:* Skunkworks Forum <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Sent:* Thursday, October 08, 2009 11:46 AM *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] FREE PAYROLL - SUGGEST A NAME

I'd prefer a name derived from a Swahili word like one of the following :

'Ujira' - malipo ya mtu aliyeajiriwa.

OR

'Ajira' - hali ya kuajiriwa.

then there's the more obvious 'Mshahara' - ujira unaolipwa kila mwisho wa mwezi.

-- Ndungi Kyalo

"if you want to go fast go alone, if you want to go far get company" Follow me on twitter @ndungikyalo biblia.kenya.or.ke

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 8:38 AM, Nick Wambugu <nick.wambugu@gmail.com>wrote:

...

KENPAY Wambugu

Bernard - malipo.co.ke is very available as well.... -- Josiah Mugambi Samuel Goldwyn<http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/s/samuel_goldwyn.html> - "I'm willing to admit that I may not always be right, but I am never wrong." On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 12:27 PM, Areba Collins <arebacollins@gmail.com>wrote:

I second MALIPO. Im here if you need UI, testing and something as far away from the code as possible. . :-) kidding!

On 10/8/09, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:

...

I would also like to encourage participation other than coding. Documentation & manuals normally fall by the wayside and will be crucial for the success of such a project given the system won't be primarily used by adventurous techies.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Solomon Mburu <solo.mburu@gmail.com> wrote:

...

My choices: AJIRA, KENROLL SOURCE or SYSTEM and TARAJIRA{taratibu+ajira}!

On 08/10/2009, Josiah Mugambi <jmugambi@gmail.com> wrote:

...

LIPA And other permutations such as MALIPO, NILIPE :)

-- Josiah Mugambi Pablo Picasso< http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/p/pablo_picasso.html> - "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers."

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Ken Etsula <ken.etsula@kdn.co.ke> wrote:

...

Kioko,

Do you want to do purely a payroll system or something like Orange which will also have some HR functions e.t.c

----- Original Message ----- *From:* Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> *To:* Skunkworks Forum <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Sent:* Thursday, October 08, 2009 11:46 AM *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] FREE PAYROLL - SUGGEST A NAME

I'd prefer a name derived from a Swahili word like one of the following :

'Ujira' - malipo ya mtu aliyeajiriwa.

OR

'Ajira' - hali ya kuajiriwa.

then there's the more obvious 'Mshahara' - ujira unaolipwa kila mwisho wa mwezi.

-- Ndungi Kyalo

"if you want to go fast go alone, if you want to go far get company" Follow me on twitter @ndungikyalo biblia.kenya.or.ke

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 8:38 AM, Nick Wambugu <nick.wambugu@gmail.com>wrote:

...

KENPAY Wambugu

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What i think we will do is create a "BUSINESS" solution.....however...as i said previously...i believe in breaking problems into smaller problems then solving the smaller problems......eventually you hack the big problem.....(not sure thats clear). For this reason, i am proposing a we start with doing a payroll module which should eventually be part of a bigger product....depending on how the market goes.... On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Ken Etsula <ken.etsula@kdn.co.ke> wrote:

Kioko,

Do you want to do purely a payroll system or something like Orange which will also have some HR functions e.t.c

----- Original Message ----- *From:* Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> *To:* Skunkworks Forum <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Sent:* Thursday, October 08, 2009 11:46 AM *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] FREE PAYROLL - SUGGEST A NAME

I'd prefer a name derived from a Swahili word like one of the following :

'Ujira' - malipo ya mtu aliyeajiriwa.

OR

'Ajira' - hali ya kuajiriwa.

then there's the more obvious 'Mshahara' - ujira unaolipwa kila mwisho wa mwezi.

-- Ndungi Kyalo

"if you want to go fast go alone, if you want to go far get company" Follow me on twitter @ndungikyalo biblia.kenya.or.ke

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 8:38 AM, Nick Wambugu <nick.wambugu@gmail.com>wrote:

...

KENPAY Wambugu

2009/10/8 David Mugo <raidarmax@gmail.com>

Hey...

...

How about kenroll :-)

Am interested.

David.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 11:31 AM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com>wrote:

...

If you read my post the other day, this should not sound new......

So the decision to make a free payroll system (geared towards kenyan market) has been made.....a coding team will be put together soon.

We are looking for people with knowledge on payroll processing who are willing to contribute by giving us requirements and testing the same.....mainly on email and chat.

Developers interested (we will mainly use PHP and MYSQL).....please email me directly....

But even before we start.......we need a name (or codename)........

Please send in some suggestions......am sure we will credit you in the final product......

Haya.....

Regards

Kioko

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------------------------------

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Hi @Paul, this is indeed an excellent development and thanks for sharing it. I hope when the time comes , the platform will be available for use. The more the audience, the better inspiration it offeres to many. And Paul, there is no rush on this, but is there anyway to get that someone to mention or place www.projectkenya.info at a later stage when there is enough quorum on the site members? I hate to canvass for anything but I think in the long term it will help many others. *projectskenya.info is simply like a notice board*. Or if someone on skunks has a better site etc, they too can try to get to be seen or heard on capitalfm. Asante :-) Anyway, my amateur thots. Corrections are welcome.

@Bernard, I'll have my last say on this thread as am on *"leave"* but want to share some words that may help. I've been doing projects over the last 18 years covering many things, 1 was successful but never made it to the level I wanted, others were " borrowed " and used by others. All I can tell you is this : Its one heck of a challenge balancing between personal, social and professional time and it will never be easy. Our ICT industry is a hell spot because change is too quick unlike the legal/audit/medical sectors where change is so slow and progressive. Finances is also not easy to comeby so at many times sacrifices need to be made. However, kenya needs it place in tech stuff and also how long can we continue to depend on others for progress. So no pressure on you, take your time and take it as it comes and try to follow through on an idea and its completion. And if you make some money at some point, well that is even much deserved as it will help fund reading material, minor expenses etc. Who knows, it maybe the break you were looking for... Good luck :-) On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 1:18 PM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com> wrote:

But I wonder if I am still young......

Ruto, Uhuru and the likes are all older than Bernard so...you are young. David. On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 1:59 PM, Davis Waithaka <daviswaithaka@gmail.com>wrote:

Benard, young is relative :)

On Thu, 2009-10-08 at 13:18 +0300, bernard kioko wrote:

...

Paul, thanks you......

But I wonder if I am still young......

I am happy to hear a media house is willing to recognise and support innovation......

-- Davis Waithaka <daviswaithaka@gmail.com> Systems Kenya Solutions

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Hey Bernard, your definitelly not young. i know a guy here who is 55 and still going strong coding... he's been programming for 35 yrs and he swears never to stop he goes senile. Otherwise this is a welcome move. and i like your idea of making it extensible into a business solution bernard kioko wrote:

Paul, thanks you......

But I wonder if I am still young......

I am happy to hear a media house is willing to recognise and support innovation......

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 12:45 PM, Paul Njoroge <njorogekamau@gmail.com <mailto:njorogekamau@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi Bernard,

Someone at Capital tells me they would like to do an on-air, and also online (via their website) promotion/feature on young innovative enterprenuers in the ICT field in Kenya.

Please send an email to

Michael Mumo, News Director Capital Group

mumo@capitalfm.co.ke <mailto:mumo@capitalfm.co.ke>

detailing all info about the project.

PS: this is not restricted to this project alone, so any other person with a brilliant idea (which is already in place), this is your chance to get on radio and tell the world about it.

Rgds

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 12:34 PM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com <mailto:bernsoft@gmail.com>> wrote:

What i think we will do is create a "BUSINESS" solution.....however...as i said previously...i believe in breaking problems into smaller problems then solving the smaller problems......eventually you hack the big problem.....(not sure thats clear). For this reason, i am proposing a we start with doing a payroll module which should eventually be part of a bigger product....depending on how the market goes....

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Ken Etsula <ken.etsula@kdn.co.ke <mailto:ken.etsula@kdn.co.ke>> wrote:

Kioko,

Do you want to do purely a payroll system or something like Orange which will also have some HR functions e.t.c

----- Original Message ----- *From:* Ndungi Kyalo <mailto:ndungi@gmail.com> *To:* Skunkworks Forum <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Sent:* Thursday, October 08, 2009 11:46 AM *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] FREE PAYROLL - SUGGEST A NAME

I'd prefer a name derived from a Swahili word like one of the following :

'Ujira' - malipo ya mtu aliyeajiriwa.

OR

'Ajira' - hali ya kuajiriwa.

then there's the more obvious 'Mshahara' - ujira unaolipwa kila mwisho wa mwezi.

-- Ndungi Kyalo

"if you want to go fast go alone, if you want to go far get company" Follow me on twitter @ndungikyalo biblia.kenya.or.ke <http://biblia.kenya.or.ke>

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 8:38 AM, Nick Wambugu <nick.wambugu@gmail.com <mailto:nick.wambugu@gmail.com>> wrote:

KENPAY

Wambugu

2009/10/8 David Mugo <raidarmax@gmail.com <mailto:raidarmax@gmail.com>>

Hey...

How about kenroll :-)

Am interested.

David.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 11:31 AM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com <mailto:bernsoft@gmail.com>> wrote:

If you read my post the other day, this should not sound new......

So the decision to make a free payroll system (geared towards kenyan market) has been made.....a coding team will be put together soon.

We are looking for people with knowledge on payroll processing who are willing to contribute by giving us requirements and testing the same.....mainly on email and chat.

Developers interested (we will mainly use PHP and MYSQL).....please email me directly....

But even before we start.......we need a name (or codename)........

Please send in some suggestions......am sure we will credit you in the final product......

Haya.....

Regards

Kioko

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-- Best Regards, Paul Njoroge.

Skype: njorogepaul

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-- SKYPE: sobbayi US: +1 202 470 0525 KE: +254 722 627 691

maybe UJIRA is more appropriate as it can even fall within the fond linux naming convention U-Ujira J-Haven't made up my mind I-Intergrated R-Real time, retail ,etc A-Application On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 2:39 PM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Steve..... If am a mama I would have caused for you.....How can you confirm am not young.... hehehe.

Anyway.... I feel that besides Payroll....basic invoicing is a big problem for companies.... and the list goes on and on....

I am just thinking about the small and medium companies that cant afford an Accounting Packages and how they can be able to automate basic functions.....AND i really want to start by solving very basic business problems...while making the solution almost portable....

And of course...."its a kenyan solution to kenyan problems"

Anyway.... I will submit my suggestion for a name in a shortwhile....for consideration...

Regards

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 2:16 PM, Steve Obbayi <steve@sobbayi.com> wrote:

...

Hey Bernard, your definitelly not young. i know a guy here who is 55 and still going strong coding... he's been programming for 35 yrs and he swears never to stop he goes senile. Otherwise this is a welcome move. and i like your idea of making it extensible into a business solution

bernard kioko wrote:

...

Paul, thanks you......

But I wonder if I am still young......

I am happy to hear a media house is willing to recognise and support innovation......

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 12:45 PM, Paul Njoroge <njorogekamau@gmail.com<mailto: njorogekamau@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi Bernard,

Someone at Capital tells me they would like to do an on-air, and also online (via their website) promotion/feature on young innovative enterprenuers in the ICT field in Kenya.

Please send an email to

Michael Mumo, News Director Capital Group

mumo@capitalfm.co.ke <mailto:mumo@capitalfm.co.ke>

detailing all info about the project.

PS: this is not restricted to this project alone, so any other person with a brilliant idea (which is already in place), this is your chance to get on radio and tell the world about it.

Rgds

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 12:34 PM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com <mailto:bernsoft@gmail.com>> wrote:

What i think we will do is create a "BUSINESS" solution.....however...as i said previously...i believe in breaking problems into smaller problems then solving the smaller problems......eventually you hack the big problem.....(not sure thats clear). For this reason, i am proposing a we start with doing a payroll module which should eventually be part of a bigger product....depending on how the market goes....

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Ken Etsula <ken.etsula@kdn.co.ke <mailto:ken.etsula@kdn.co.ke>> wrote:

Kioko, Do you want to do purely a payroll system or something like Orange which will also have some HR functions e.t.c

----- Original Message ----- *From:* Ndungi Kyalo <mailto:ndungi@gmail.com> *To:* Skunkworks Forum <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Sent:* Thursday, October 08, 2009 11:46 AM *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] FREE PAYROLL - SUGGEST A NAME

I'd prefer a name derived from a Swahili word like one of the following :

'Ujira' - malipo ya mtu aliyeajiriwa.

OR

'Ajira' - hali ya kuajiriwa.

then there's the more obvious 'Mshahara' - ujira unaolipwa kila mwisho wa mwezi.

-- Ndungi Kyalo

"if you want to go fast go alone, if you want to go far get company" Follow me on twitter @ndungikyalo biblia.kenya.or.ke <http://biblia.kenya.or.ke>

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 8:38 AM, Nick Wambugu <nick.wambugu@gmail.com <mailto:nick.wambugu@gmail.com>> wrote:

KENPAY

Wambugu

2009/10/8 David Mugo <raidarmax@gmail.com <mailto:raidarmax@gmail.com>>

Hey...

How about kenroll :-)

Am interested.

David.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 11:31 AM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com <mailto:bernsoft@gmail.com>> wrote:

If you read my post the other day, this should not sound new......

So the decision to make a free payroll system (geared towards kenyan market) has been made.....a coding team will be put together soon.

We are looking for people with knowledge on payroll processing who are willing to contribute by giving us requirements and testing the same.....mainly on email and chat.

Developers interested (we will mainly use PHP and MYSQL).....please email me directly....

But even before we start.......we need a name (or codename)........

Please send in some suggestions......am sure we will credit you in the final product......

Haya.....

Regards

Kioko

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-- Best Regards, Paul Njoroge.

Skype: njorogepaul

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SKYPE: sobbayi US: +1 202 470 0525 KE: +254 722 627 691

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ROLLIT On Thu, 2009-10-08 at 11:38 +0300, Nick Wambugu wrote:

KENPAY

Wambugu

2009/10/8 David Mugo <raidarmax@gmail.com> Hey...

How about kenroll :-)

Am interested.

David.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 11:31 AM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com> wrote:

If you read my post the other day, this should not sound new......

So the decision to make a free payroll system (geared towards kenyan market) has been made.....a coding team will be put together soon.

We are looking for people with knowledge on payroll processing who are willing to contribute by giving us requirements and testing the same.....mainly on email and chat.

Developers interested (we will mainly use PHP and MYSQL).....please email me directly....

But even before we start.......we need a name (or codename)........

Please send in some suggestions......am sure we will credit you in the final product......

Haya.....

Regards

Kioko

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Thank you Aki. Am even more encouraged now..... On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 12:17 PM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:

@Bernard, all i can share with you is : WELL DONE! I welcome you to the world of projects and I wish you the best of success in its initiative and completion. This is what we need, people in tech sector going the extra mile to make a difference or create avenues. Without us, the tech sector will not innovate or comeup with something soon enough! We also need to invite them to participate on successful projects that they can also benefit from. Its never been too late.... let everyone tell you its been done before so you know what you are up against because that challenge itself will help you innovate and produce something 1000 times better than what exists.

I'm no php,sql person so I cannot contribute to your project but I want to challenge you to a completion date ( could be 12, 24 months from now etc ). If you are ok with adding your project initiative to www.projectskenya.info where you will find 2 of us who are doing other things. You can then share and track your project development progress and ofcourse in no way move away from this list. My contributions still continue on this list despite the other site.

Dude, good move on your part. :-)

Cheers.

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No answer from Muthoni yet.......and i still think i would like to start something new.....and grow it to a world level......while solving local problems gradually..... that temptation is overwhelming....also...my target is mainly SMEs.... who have bigger issues dealing with payroll than HRM (many of them dont really even have a true HRM section). Am I wrong? On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com> wrote:

Bernard, how did it go with the payroll module for orangeHRM done by openworld?

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 11:31 AM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com> wrote:

...

If you read my post the other day, this should not sound new......

So the decision to make a free payroll system (geared towards kenyan market) has been made.....a coding team will be put together soon.

We are looking for people with knowledge on payroll processing who are willing to contribute by giving us requirements and testing the same.....mainly on email and chat.

Developers interested (we will mainly use PHP and MYSQL).....please email me directly....

But even before we start.......we need a name (or codename)........

Please send in some suggestions......am sure we will credit you in the final product......

Haya.....

Regards

Kioko

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Peter, Without any intention to brag or showoff...let me tell you a story about a previous project i got involved in.... A couple of years ago, I challenged myself to create Kenya's first true Travel Distribution system....I felt that it was so hard... that we chose to call it "EasyFlight". I had some people advise me to build on an existing system...others told me it cant work because international companies like galileo and amadeus are too big.....but i stuck to my opinion....while appearing stubborn....we chose to start from zero... WIth time.... the system ended up in use by 5 airlines (in kenya), several bus companies(in Kenya)...hotels (in Kenya), etc...plus over 1000 travel agents.......and finally if you dial *711# on your safariocm....or visit http://www.easytravelpoint.com you will see what we have done which the "other" systems havent done yet for Kenya! Oh...and that small system eventually became an independent travel software company ..... Enough of that....but I hope you understand the reason i see a future bigger than OrangeHRM. This said, I dont disagree with you. I agree with you on all 3 points. Whether to start a fresh or to build on an already existing system is subject to a debate IN THIS CASE. To base the free payroll on OrangeHRM means a number of things are already decided for me/us. Being a developer i feel i will lose the freedom that a developer needs to make a 5 year plan.... Also I am not entirely worried by visibility/market penetration....because if we build a local product and do it well, the usage will go a long way. Then there is the fact that I strongly want to believe from the start that we are kenyan, building a solution in Kenya, for Kenyan people/businesses (maybe not a strong point but is critical for the drive). Finally, just imagine if we build a better product than OrangeHRM......which is actually my goal..... Needless to say, we will study OrangeHRM and other systems (like any other programmer would do). Convinced? On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 2:29 PM, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com> wrote:

Bernard, I still think that building upon a base is easier than starting from scratch due to the following reasons: 1. They have ironed out a lot of small issues e.g choice of PHP design patterns, coding standards<http://www.orangehrm.com/wiki/index.php/PHP_Coding_Conventions>, development process<http://www.orangehrm.com/wiki/index.php/Development_Process>etc 2. They are more visible in terms of market penetration<http://www.itwire.com/content/view/13030/53/1/3/>.

3. You don't have to setup APC or unit tests etc . A lot of decisions have been made for the developer.

Disclaimer: I do not work for orangeHRM :-) I just think its more productive to build upon it than to start from scratch.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 1:53 PM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com> wrote:

...

No answer from Muthoni yet.......and i still think i would like to start something new.....and grow it to a world level......while solving local problems gradually..... that temptation is overwhelming....also...my target is mainly SMEs.... who have bigger issues dealing with payroll than HRM (many of them dont really even have a true HRM section).

Am I wrong?

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Bernard, how did it go with the payroll module for orangeHRM done by openworld?

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 11:31 AM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com>wrote:

...

If you read my post the other day, this should not sound new......

So the decision to make a free payroll system (geared towards kenyan market) has been made.....a coding team will be put together soon.

We are looking for people with knowledge on payroll processing who are willing to contribute by giving us requirements and testing the same.....mainly on email and chat.

Developers interested (we will mainly use PHP and MYSQL).....please email me directly....

But even before we start.......we need a name (or codename)........

Please send in some suggestions......am sure we will credit you in the final product......

Haya.....

Regards

Kioko

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Would be interesting to get Peter Muchemi's feedback .. now that he was/is doing software for SME's ... -- Josiah Mugambi Samuel Goldwyn<http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/s/samuel_goldwyn.html> - "I'm willing to admit that I may not always be right, but I am never wrong." On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 3:06 PM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com> wrote:

Peter,

Without any intention to brag or showoff...let me tell you a story about a previous project i got involved in....

A couple of years ago, I challenged myself to create Kenya's first true Travel Distribution system....I felt that it was so hard... that we chose to call it "EasyFlight". I had some people advise me to build on an existing system...others told me it cant work because international companies like galileo and amadeus are too big.....but i stuck to my opinion....while appearing stubborn....we chose to start from zero...

WIth time.... the system ended up in use by 5 airlines (in kenya), several bus companies(in Kenya)...hotels (in Kenya), etc...plus over 1000 travel agents.......and finally if you dial *711# on your safariocm....or visit http://www.easytravelpoint.com you will see what we have done which the "other" systems havent done yet for Kenya! Oh...and that small system eventually became an independent travel software company .....

Enough of that....but I hope you understand the reason i see a future bigger than OrangeHRM.

This said, I dont disagree with you. I agree with you on all 3 points.

Whether to start a fresh or to build on an already existing system is subject to a debate IN THIS CASE.

To base the free payroll on OrangeHRM means a number of things are already decided for me/us. Being a developer i feel i will lose the freedom that a developer needs to make a 5 year plan....

Also I am not entirely worried by visibility/market penetration....because if we build a local product and do it well, the usage will go a long way.

Then there is the fact that I strongly want to believe from the start that we are kenyan, building a solution in Kenya, for Kenyan people/businesses (maybe not a strong point but is critical for the drive).

Finally, just imagine if we build a better product than OrangeHRM......which is actually my goal.....

Needless to say, we will study OrangeHRM and other systems (like any other programmer would do).

Convinced?

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 2:29 PM, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Bernard, I still think that building upon a base is easier than starting from scratch due to the following reasons: 1. They have ironed out a lot of small issues e.g choice of PHP design patterns, coding standards<http://www.orangehrm.com/wiki/index.php/PHP_Coding_Conventions>, development process<http://www.orangehrm.com/wiki/index.php/Development_Process>etc 2. They are more visible in terms of market penetration<http://www.itwire.com/content/view/13030/53/1/3/>.

3. You don't have to setup APC or unit tests etc . A lot of decisions have been made for the developer.

Disclaimer: I do not work for orangeHRM :-) I just think its more productive to build upon it than to start from scratch.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 1:53 PM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com> wrote:

...

No answer from Muthoni yet.......and i still think i would like to start something new.....and grow it to a world level......while solving local problems gradually..... that temptation is overwhelming....also...my target is mainly SMEs.... who have bigger issues dealing with payroll than HRM (many of them dont really even have a true HRM section).

Am I wrong?

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com>wrote:

...

Bernard, how did it go with the payroll module for orangeHRM done by openworld?

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 11:31 AM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com>wrote:

...

If you read my post the other day, this should not sound new......

So the decision to make a free payroll system (geared towards kenyan market) has been made.....a coding team will be put together soon.

We are looking for people with knowledge on payroll processing who are willing to contribute by giving us requirements and testing the same.....mainly on email and chat.

Developers interested (we will mainly use PHP and MYSQL).....please email me directly....

But even before we start.......we need a name (or codename)........

Please send in some suggestions......am sure we will credit you in the final product......

Haya.....

Regards

Kioko

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It is never a black or white question, the famous 'rewrite or reuse'. Here's a good essay that can give food for thought http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000069.html On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 7:23 PM, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com> wrote:

Bernard, you have my blessings then to do it as you see fit (not that you needed them in the first place :-) I have understood your perspective perfectly.

Steve, not that I mind creating stuff from scratch, but i belong to the school of programming where the mantra "don't reinvent the wheel" is a bit strong, which leads to lazy developers who piggy-back on the efforts of others.

Skunks who are familiar with the ISV marketplace locally could have some interesting perspectives though, Peter Muchemi??

Peter, code reuse is part of good practice and i am totally for it, without it coding life would be total hell and productivity would be next to nothing. am from an old school of sorts the days when we would hack to hardware in assembly ourselves rather than use libraries even when MS came with directx coders then used to hang on to dos for game development... in short this decision is just a matter of discussion i guess, maybe Benard has his reasons as to why he wants it from scratch and we should be able to support him if it comes to that. -- SKYPE: sobbayi US: +1 202 470 0525 +1 202 297 6831 KE: +254 722 627 691 Peter Karunyu wrote:

Bernard, you have my blessings then to do it as you see fit (not that you needed them in the first place :-) I have understood your perspective perfectly.

Steve, not that I mind creating stuff from scratch, but i belong to the school of programming where the mantra "don't reinvent the wheel" is a bit strong, which leads to lazy developers who piggy-back on the efforts of others.

Skunks who are familiar with the ISV marketplace locally could have some interesting perspectives though, Peter Muchemi??

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 3:06 PM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com <mailto:bernsoft@gmail.com>> wrote:

Peter,

Without any intention to brag or showoff...let me tell you a story about a previous project i got involved in....

A couple of years ago, I challenged myself to create Kenya's first true Travel Distribution system....I felt that it was so hard... that we chose to call it "EasyFlight". I had some people advise me to build on an existing system...others told me it cant work because international companies like galileo and amadeus are too big.....but i stuck to my opinion....while appearing stubborn....we chose to start from zero...

WIth time.... the system ended up in use by 5 airlines (in kenya), several bus companies(in Kenya)...hotels (in Kenya), etc...plus over 1000 travel agents.......and finally if you dial *711# on your safariocm....or visit http://www.easytravelpoint.com you will see what we have done which the "other" systems havent done yet for Kenya! Oh...and that small system eventually became an independent travel software company .....

Enough of that....but I hope you understand the reason i see a future bigger than OrangeHRM.

This said, I dont disagree with you. I agree with you on all 3 points.

Whether to start a fresh or to build on an already existing system is subject to a debate IN THIS CASE.

To base the free payroll on OrangeHRM means a number of things are already decided for me/us. Being a developer i feel i will lose the freedom that a developer needs to make a 5 year plan....

Also I am not entirely worried by visibility/market penetration....because if we build a local product and do it well, the usage will go a long way.

Then there is the fact that I strongly want to believe from the start that we are kenyan, building a solution in Kenya, for Kenyan people/businesses (maybe not a strong point but is critical for the drive).

Finally, just imagine if we build a better product than OrangeHRM......which is actually my goal.....

Needless to say, we will study OrangeHRM and other systems (like any other programmer would do).

Convinced?

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 2:29 PM, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com <mailto:pkarunyu@gmail.com>> wrote:

Bernard, I still think that building upon a base is easier than starting from scratch due to the following reasons: 1. They have ironed out a lot of small issues e.g choice of PHP design patterns, coding standards <http://www.orangehrm.com/wiki/index.php/PHP_Coding_Conventions>, development process <http://www.orangehrm.com/wiki/index.php/Development_Process> etc 2. They are more visible in terms of market penetration <http://www.itwire.com/content/view/13030/53/1/3/>. 3. You don't have to setup APC or unit tests etc . A lot of decisions have been made for the developer.

Disclaimer: I do not work for orangeHRM :-) I just think its more productive to build upon it than to start from scratch.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 1:53 PM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com <mailto:bernsoft@gmail.com>> wrote:

No answer from Muthoni yet.......and i still think i would like to start something new.....and grow it to a world level......while solving local problems gradually..... that temptation is overwhelming....also...my target is mainly SMEs.... who have bigger issues dealing with payroll than HRM (many of them dont really even have a true HRM section).

Am I wrong?

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com <mailto:pkarunyu@gmail.com>> wrote:

Bernard, how did it go with the payroll module for orangeHRM done by openworld?

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 11:31 AM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com <mailto:bernsoft@gmail.com>> wrote:

If you read my post the other day, this should not sound new......

So the decision to make a free payroll system (geared towards kenyan market) has been made.....a coding team will be put together soon.

We are looking for people with knowledge on payroll processing who are willing to contribute by giving us requirements and testing the same.....mainly on email and chat.

Developers interested (we will mainly use PHP and MYSQL).....please email me directly....

But even before we start.......we need a name (or codename)........

Please send in some suggestions......am sure we will credit you in the final product......

Haya.....

Regards

Kioko

I strongly disagree with you peter. with a strong team and proper analysis of the problem a solution from scratch can inevitably be better than the OrangeHRM and better still it will be a fully developed kenyan solution. I think its hi time Kenyan developers learnt how to develop quality systems from scratch and not get too dependent on cloning. besides this is open source so there are no stringent time restrictions to get this out on the market that would warrant the need to adopt an existing solution and go with it. besides building upon someone elses foundation limits you to what that foundation is capable. Kenya can make a mark on the world scene and do it from ground up. Let this solution be developed and for once let the west customize it to their liking. Peter Karunyu wrote:

Bernard, I still think that building upon a base is easier than starting from scratch due to the following reasons: 1. They have ironed out a lot of small issues e.g choice of PHP design patterns, coding standards <http://www.orangehrm.com/wiki/index.php/PHP_Coding_Conventions>, development process <http://www.orangehrm.com/wiki/index.php/Development_Process> etc 2. They are more visible in terms of market penetration <http://www.itwire.com/content/view/13030/53/1/3/>. 3. You don't have to setup APC or unit tests etc . A lot of decisions have been made for the developer.

Disclaimer: I do not work for orangeHRM :-) I just think its more productive to build upon it than to start from scratch.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 1:53 PM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com <mailto:bernsoft@gmail.com>> wrote:

No answer from Muthoni yet.......and i still think i would like to start something new.....and grow it to a world level......while solving local problems gradually..... that temptation is overwhelming....also...my target is mainly SMEs.... who have bigger issues dealing with payroll than HRM (many of them dont really even have a true HRM section).

Am I wrong?

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com <mailto:pkarunyu@gmail.com>> wrote:

Bernard, how did it go with the payroll module for orangeHRM done by openworld?

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 11:31 AM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com <mailto:bernsoft@gmail.com>> wrote:

If you read my post the other day, this should not sound new......

So the decision to make a free payroll system (geared towards kenyan market) has been made.....a coding team will be put together soon.

We are looking for people with knowledge on payroll processing who are willing to contribute by giving us requirements and testing the same.....mainly on email and chat.

Developers interested (we will mainly use PHP and MYSQL).....please email me directly....

But even before we start.......we need a name (or codename)........

Please send in some suggestions......am sure we will credit you in the final product......

Haya.....

Regards

Kioko

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-- SKYPE: sobbayi US: +1 202 470 0525 KE: +254 722 627 691

My suggestion on codename: "HAKIYETU" lol On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 12:53 PM, nancy bosire <bozaya@gmail.com> wrote:

AJIRA and KENPAY sound good.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 11:31 AM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com> wrote:

...

If you read my post the other day, this should not sound new......

So the decision to make a free payroll system (geared towards kenyan market) has been made.....a coding team will be put together soon.

We are looking for people with knowledge on payroll processing who are willing to contribute by giving us requirements and testing the same.....mainly on email and chat.

Developers interested (we will mainly use PHP and MYSQL).....please email me directly....

But even before we start.......we need a name (or codename)........

Please send in some suggestions......am sure we will credit you in the final product......

Haya.....

Regards

Kioko

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-- Sincerely yours,

Nancy Bosire Managing Director Blueline Synergy Limited Tel: 020 2317230/29 Mobile: 0721907995 info@bluelinesynergy.com,nancy@bluelinesynergy.com http://www.bluelinesynergy.com

Domain Registration.Web Design & Hosting.Software Development.LAN/WAN setup.Maintenance.Projectors. New/Used PCs & Laptops.Computer Accessories.Office Stationary

"Your consistent thoughts create your consistent results."

"Whatever your mind expects and demands, it will find a way to produce it." - Napoleon Hill

Mahatma Gandhi once said:-

First they ignore you, Then they laugh at you, Then they fight you, AND THEN YOU WIN!!!

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@ Mbugua, That codename is synonymous with street demos and is already a cliche, notwithstanding! On 14/10/2009, Solomon Mburu <solo.mburu@gmail.com> wrote:

@ Mbugua, That codename is synonymous with street demos and is already a cliche, notwithstanding!

On 14/10/2009, Paul Mbugua <plmbugua@gmail.com> wrote:

...

My suggestion on codename: "HAKIYETU" lol

On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 12:53 PM, nancy bosire <bozaya@gmail.com> wrote:

...

AJIRA and KENPAY sound good.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 11:31 AM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com> wrote:

...

If you read my post the other day, this should not sound new......

So the decision to make a free payroll system (geared towards kenyan market) has been made.....a coding team will be put together soon.

We are looking for people with knowledge on payroll processing who are willing to contribute by giving us requirements and testing the same.....mainly on email and chat.

Developers interested (we will mainly use PHP and MYSQL).....please email me directly....

But even before we start.......we need a name (or codename)........

Please send in some suggestions......am sure we will credit you in the final product......

Haya.....

Regards

Kioko

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general

-- Sincerely yours,

Nancy Bosire Managing Director Blueline Synergy Limited Tel: 020 2317230/29 Mobile: 0721907995 info@bluelinesynergy.com,nancy@bluelinesynergy.com http://www.bluelinesynergy.com

Domain Registration.Web Design & Hosting.Software Development.LAN/WAN setup.Maintenance.Projectors. New/Used PCs & Laptops.Computer Accessories.Office Stationary

"Your consistent thoughts create your consistent results."

"Whatever your mind expects and demands, it will find a way to produce it." - Napoleon Hill

Mahatma Gandhi once said:-

First they ignore you, Then they laugh at you, Then they fight you, AND THEN YOU WIN!!!

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-- Solomon Mburu P.O. Box 19343 - 00202 Nairobi Cell: (+254-0) 735 431041

Man is a gregarious animal and enjoys agreement as cows will graze all the same way to the side of a hill!

AND

It is better to die in dignity than in the ignomity of ambiguous generosity!

http://desires-and-dreams.blogspot.com https://smiley2.wordpress.com www.takingitglobal.org/mburu

-- Solomon Mburu P.O. Box 19343 - 00202 Nairobi Cell: (+254-0) 735 431041 Man is a gregarious animal and enjoys agreement as cows will graze all the same way to the side of a hill! AND It is better to die in dignity than in the ignomity of ambiguous generosity! http://desires-and-dreams.blogspot.com https://smiley2.wordpress.com www.takingitglobal.org/mburu