On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Joram Mwinamo <joram.mwinamo@gmail.com>wrote:

Imagine a pharmaceutical industry without patents.....wouldnt exist although right now they are evil!

You will be surprised then to learn many pharmaceutical concoctions were never patented (vaccines ..e.g. smallpox .. and antibiotics like pennicilin). The modern pharmaceutical industry exists on the basis of these non-patented inventions. How do you explain that ? I wish someone had patented fire and sold it to the rest of the world. You and me would be paying money to light a match.

I guess if you havent invented something and had it stolen then you have nothing to worry about or to care for ....which is most of us.

pharmecutical patent regimes in particular go to ridiculous extents which make sense only to americans (e.g. patenting at a molecular level ... patenting processes etc... ). nowadays independent discovery is called theft. do you think fire was disovered only in one place ... or did writing originate only from civilization ... or was the power of speech discovered by one man ?

Ashok makes a very valid point. Ok you came up with something but that doesnt meant you are the only one who could. Have you seen the kind of patents Microsoft and IBM hold between themselves? People did business before and made money without patents. As ashok says if our ancestors were to patent everything they discoverd civilization would not have evolved as it has now. People talk about the need of patents to ensure funding for research but in all honesty how much of the money really goes to research? Patents in themselves are a fraud. For you to come up with something you require knowledge which was derived from others before you. A drug manufacturer requires knowledge that previous chemists discovered and built upon. As pay back you also have to provide the knowledge freely for whatever you have discoverd. Unless you discovered from while living in a deserted island with no previous knowledge of anything On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 1:30 AM, [ Brainiac ] <arebacollins@gmail.com>wrote:

And another spanner in the works. Microsoft has allegedly patented SUDO.

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20091111094923390

On 11/12/09, Ashok Hariharan <ashok@parliaments.info> wrote:

...

On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Joram Mwinamo <joram.mwinamo@gmail.com>wrote:

...

Imagine a pharmaceutical industry without patents.....wouldnt exist although right now they are evil!

You will be surprised then to learn many pharmaceutical concoctions were never patented (vaccines ..e.g. smallpox .. and antibiotics like pennicilin). The modern pharmaceutical industry exists on the basis of these non-patented inventions. How do you explain that ?

I wish someone had patented fire and sold it to the rest of the world. You and me would be paying money to light a match.

...

I guess if you havent invented something and had it stolen then you have nothing to worry about or to care for ....which is most of us.

pharmecutical patent regimes in particular go to ridiculous extents which make sense only to americans (e.g. patenting at a molecular level ... patenting processes etc... ). nowadays independent discovery is called theft. do you think fire was disovered only in one place ... or did writing originate only from civilization ... or was the power of speech discovered by one man ?

--

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBQ2o0LcmnQ&feature=PlayList&p=B41970323E7D1E... _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general

Personally i am all for patents in principle. You should be rewarded for research and discoveries that you make. My problem is that the patent concept is being roundly abused and this is causing problems all round e.g. patenting things that are obvious. As for IBM & Co, if you were them you'd do the same thing. Things are at a stage that you have to patent before the other guy does -- think of it as the new nuclear arms race On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 9:24 AM, simiyu mse <kensimiyu@gmail.com> wrote:

the evils of capitalism rear their heads. making money is what it is all about with these patents.

-- i dislike capital letters

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In a previous lifetime I happened to work for a biotechnology startup whose biz was to create an HIV vaccine (and other retroviruses like Ebola etc). The industry is BIG BUSINESS, with emphasis on *business*. The R&D budget included big chunks of money, in kind and in research facilities, from the government. Among big pharmaceutical companies (big pharma), a lot more money is invested in marketing than in R&D, and an alarming number of drugs aren't new at all, just tweaks of existing drugs. The myth of big pharma spending billions on research, hence the need to protect their legitimate investments by hook is crook is... just a myth. Here's more info from Marcia Angell, a former Editor-in-Chief of the prestigious scientific journal, the New England Journal of Medicine. The article title: The Truth About the Drug Companies. She has written a lot more about the subject, more links are in the article. http://www.nybooks.com/articles/17244 While you're at it, you might also want to check out this related article on big pharma and H1N1: "Does the Vaccine Matter?" http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200911/brownlee-h1n1 It is quite distressing, in light of the article, to realize that Canada's vaccination effort has cost us $1.5 billion (that's a 'b'), and the bill is still climbing, expected to go beyond $2 billion. All this in the midst of an economic crisis. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health/h1n1-swine-flu/cost-of-vaccinatin... So, put aside the myth of big pharma spending billions in research. A good chunk of that research is paid for by the government anyway, in the form of research grants to universities or directly to individual researchers. Saidi On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 2:34 AM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> wrote:

You will be surprised then to learn many pharmaceutical concoctions were

...

never patented (vaccines ..e.g. smallpox .. and antibiotics like pennicilin). The modern pharmaceutical industry exists on the basis of these non-patented inventions. How do you explain that ?

I agree, but how much money was invested? How much money has currently been invested in getting an HIV vaccine? With many of these drugs, millions of dollars at times billions are invested into medical research. Now sadly, when the drug is released, the pharmaceutical has to recover this income one way or another. When they factor that into the cost, many say it's immoral and insist on generics, however, this in the long term reduces the pharmaceutical industry's need to seek a cure for say Cancer/AIDS as they know that someone will be allowed to produce a generic drug and they will loose several (b)millions in research.

I was once speaking to a pharmaceutical researcher whose view was basically that the reason more and more pharmaceutical firms are going to the outer limits of research (v14gr4 <spammer pun intended>, steroids etc) is simply because no one will make generics and the few who do will be sued. These are drugs with high demand yet not critical, no one can say they will die if they don't get their little blue pill, the converse is probably true.

I recommend this book to anyone who wants to see clearer rational for patents *Game Theory At Work - How To Use Game Theory To Outthink And Outmaneuver Your Competition, by James Miller*

-- With Regards,

Phares Kariuki

| T: +254 734 810 802 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares |

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Knowledge is not patentable. But technology is. And basically we cant participate much in the patent debate because we have nothing to patent anyway. Picture this, you develop something revolutionary,using knowledge to put together technology that is unique, effective and a killer idea. You have invested a lot of time and money. Then you leave your comp somewhere, some goon steals the entire concept, then you see it in the market the next day...... Patenting has its goods and its bads. But at the end of the day its VERY necessary. We want to copy and benefit from it when we have not done any thinking or research. Pharma is business, but guess what , so is everything else, from education to health and the somehow people need to be motivated to create,and money is the most common form of motivation. Patenting drives innovation when people know they can benefit from their exclusive efforts. If that was not in place, then things would be very interesting indeed. I do agree however( and the debates are there internationally) that the level to which we patent should be scrutinized. And inventing fire is not the same as inventing an iphone. Fire already existed. If you invent something that creates fire in a more efficient way than everyone else, then patent and sell it. Early pharmas didnt patent because they did not need to.Inventions were done as a matter of goodwill and hadnt become commercialized to the extent they are right now. On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 11:44 AM, Jacob Odada <jacob.odada@gmail.com> wrote:

I grew up in a research institution and I can tell you for a fact that alot of money is not spent on research. Sales people and marketers always make more money than researchers and you dont need to google it to know. If the pharmaceutical companies spent so much on research how come Kenyan researchers are not rich? welcome trust is in Kenya, CDC is in Kenya, Smith kline, Wlater reed is in Kenya plus many other organisations and they all do research here. Go find out if they pay the researchers that much money compared to the knowledge they make use of.

On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 11:35 AM, saidimu apale <saidimu@gmail.com> wrote:

...

In a previous lifetime I happened to work for a biotechnology startup whose biz was to create an HIV vaccine (and other retroviruses like Ebola etc). The industry is BIG BUSINESS, with emphasis on *business*. The R&D budget included big chunks of money, in kind and in research facilities, from the government.

Among big pharmaceutical companies (big pharma), a lot more money is invested in marketing than in R&D, and an alarming number of drugs aren't new at all, just tweaks of existing drugs.

The myth of big pharma spending billions on research, hence the need to protect their legitimate investments by hook is crook is... just a myth.

Here's more info from Marcia Angell, a former Editor-in-Chief of the prestigious scientific journal, the New England Journal of Medicine. The article title: The Truth About the Drug Companies. She has written a lot more about the subject, more links are in the article.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/17244

While you're at it, you might also want to check out this related article on big pharma and H1N1: "Does the Vaccine Matter?"

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200911/brownlee-h1n1

It is quite distressing, in light of the article, to realize that Canada's vaccination effort has cost us $1.5 billion (that's a 'b'), and the bill is still climbing, expected to go beyond $2 billion. All this in the midst of an economic crisis.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health/h1n1-swine-flu/cost-of-vaccinatin...

So, put aside the myth of big pharma spending billions in research. A good chunk of that research is paid for by the government anyway, in the form of research grants to universities or directly to individual researchers.

Saidi

On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 2:34 AM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com>wrote:

...

You will be surprised then to learn many pharmaceutical concoctions were

...

never patented (vaccines ..e.g. smallpox .. and antibiotics like pennicilin). The modern pharmaceutical industry exists on the basis of these non-patented inventions. How do you explain that ?

I agree, but how much money was invested? How much money has currently been invested in getting an HIV vaccine? With many of these drugs, millions of dollars at times billions are invested into medical research. Now sadly, when the drug is released, the pharmaceutical has to recover this income one way or another. When they factor that into the cost, many say it's immoral and insist on generics, however, this in the long term reduces the pharmaceutical industry's need to seek a cure for say Cancer/AIDS as they know that someone will be allowed to produce a generic drug and they will loose several (b)millions in research.

I was once speaking to a pharmaceutical researcher whose view was basically that the reason more and more pharmaceutical firms are going to the outer limits of research (v14gr4 <spammer pun intended>, steroids etc) is simply because no one will make generics and the few who do will be sued. These are drugs with high demand yet not critical, no one can say they will die if they don't get their little blue pill, the converse is probably true.

I recommend this book to anyone who wants to see clearer rational for patents *Game Theory At Work - How To Use Game Theory To Outthink And Outmaneuver Your Competition, by James Miller*

-- With Regards,

Phares Kariuki

| T: +254 734 810 802 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares |

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-- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- God is not an excuse for lack of discipline -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.

On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 11:35 AM, saidimu apale <saidimu@gmail.com> wrote:

The myth of big pharma spending billions on research, hence the need to protect their legitimate investments by hook is crook is... just a myth.

See Robin D. Gross, “One of the most common misunderstandings regarding intellectual property rights, particularly copyright, is that the actual creators are the main beneficiaries of the grant. In reality, it is the large companies that employ creators and then strip them of their copyright through contracts who actually benefit from the grant society intended as a reward for authors. This important misunderstanding is no accident. Misleading "romantic notions of authorship" are systematically spun by the companies who stand in the shoes of creators to justify the generous monopoly right rewarded to them”, http://www.imaginelaw.com/

Well, you forget the company gives the individual Branding rights, resources, distribution networks and clout the individual would not afford on his own. How many people have great ideas but cant get them to fly? Not all Big companies are as evil as we like to think of them. If the individuals could do without the companies( through contracts that strip them of rights) why dont they just go for it alone? On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 10:39 AM, Frankline Chitwa <frank.chitwa@gmail.com>wrote:

Hmmmmmm, never thought of it that way. But if an individual obtained a patent to prevent a big player from muzzling him out, does that justify patents?

On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 8:14 AM, Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com>wrote:

...

On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 11:35 AM, saidimu apale <saidimu@gmail.com> wrote:

...

The myth of big pharma spending billions on research, hence the need to

protect their legitimate investments by hook is crook is... just a myth.

See Robin D. Gross,

“One of the most common misunderstandings regarding intellectual property rights, particularly copyright, is that the actual creators are the main beneficiaries of the grant. In reality, it is the large companies that employ creators and then strip them of their copyright through contracts who actually benefit from the grant society intended as a reward for authors.

This important misunderstanding is no accident. Misleading "romantic notions of authorship" are systematically spun by the companies who stand in the shoes of creators to justify the generous monopoly right rewarded to them”, http://www.imaginelaw.com/ _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general

-- www.golavish.com - The travel and leisure www.raccuddasys.com - code Development issues

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-- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- God is not an excuse for lack of discipline -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.

Still on intellectual property, there is a story in today's Daily Nation about the Senegalese who are building the worlds largest monument. The president is claiming 35% of the project cost as intellectual property costs since it was his brain child. On 16/11/2009, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> wrote:

...

“One of the most common misunderstandings regarding intellectual

property rights, particularly copyright, is that the actual creators

are the main beneficiaries of the grant. In reality, it is the large

companies that employ creators and then strip them of their copyright

through contracts who actually benefit from the grant society intended

as a reward for authors.

Through this premise, we should get rid of the concept of a corporation and share profit's equally with the employees. The problem I have with this is that, while working for corporation x, employee a used all off corporation x's resources, but want's to happily keep the spoils for themselves. When doing research and even in ordinary work, the employee will use vast resources to achieve his end, and the employee *willingly* signs over the gains of the research to them. We also forget the numerous times that an employee will come up with a "brilliant" idea, pitch them and management bears the loss, in that case, we don't go for a "loss sharing mechanism" in which the same employee can lose his retirement benefits do we? But said mistake can easily cost the shareholders tones of money. If you want the profit, be prepared to make the loss. We are only analyzing the cases where the employees actually succeed, forgetting that in many cases, the same employees cause tremendous losses.

-- With Regards,

Phares Kariuki

| T: +254 734 810 802 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares |

-- with Regards: Get your free technology e-magazine in pdf format: Tekniaonline: http://bit.ly/tekniaonline-2 Sterotyping: Abednego, tell the tribe by the name; visit the blog : http://gramware.blogspot.com

http://labs.timesonline.co.uk/blog/2009/11/12/do-music-artists-do-better-in-... This talk by Larry Lessig (one of the founders of Creative Commons) has a nice historical view of copyrights/IP and how to go about it now: http://www.ted.com/talks/larry_lessig_says_the_law_is_strangling_creativity.... saidi On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 2:32 PM, <ashok+skunkworks@parliaments.info<ashok%2Bskunkworks@parliaments.info>

wrote:

On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 7:47 AM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com>wrote:

...

Through this premise, we should get rid of the concept of a corporation and share profit's equally with the employees. The problem I have with this is that, while working for corporation x, employee a used all off corporation x's resources, but want's to happily keep the spoils for themselves.

This is the argument used by record companies. Record companies are going gradually bankrupt (when was the last time anyone bought a cd ?!).... but have you heard of any music artist going bankrupt ? No. Has the quality of music gone down ? I dont think so. Has innovation in music suffered ? I dont think so ...

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@Alex Gakuru, have you ever read on how patents are awarded? It is not just picking names and putting formulas and submitting it for protection. There is due dilligence followed in awarding patents... Quoting Joram "Knowledge is not patented, technology is" regards, On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 10:55 PM, Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com>wrote:

On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 10:47 AM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> wrote:

...

...

“One of the most common misunderstandings regarding intellectual

property rights, particularly copyright, is that the actual creators

are the main beneficiaries of the grant. In reality, it is the large

companies that employ creators and then strip them of their copyright

through contracts who actually benefit from the grant society intended

as a reward for authors.

Through this premise, we should get rid of the concept of a corporation and share profit's equally with the employees. The problem I have with this is that, while working for corporation x, employee a used all off corporation x's resources, but want's to happily keep the spoils for themselves. When doing research and even in ordinary work, the employee will use vast resources to achieve his end, and the employee *willingly* signs over the gains of the research to them. We also forget the numerous times that an employee will come up with a "brilliant" idea, pitch them and management bears the loss, in that case, we don't go for a "loss sharing mechanism" in which the same employee can lose his retirement benefits do we? But said mistake can easily cost the shareholders tones of money. If you want the profit, be prepared to make the loss. We are only analyzing the cases where the employees actually succeed, forgetting that in many cases, the same employees cause tremendous losses.

--

You describe human development very well- incidentally which was never a corporation in the first place. Unfortunately, you then proceed to call for human development privatisation?

Would folks here be aware that today there are people in Developed Countries who sit all days combing through dictionaries and patenting words? There is now a matured "IP Industry" trading on those names out there and don't be surprised if soon you wake up only to find out that you cannot use your name on the internet - because someone patented or registered it as a trademark. It's baaad! This is not a joke! _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general

-- "Change is slow and gradual. It requires hardwork, a bit of luck, a fair amount of self-sacrifice and a lot of patience." Roy.

You describe human development very well- incidentally which was never

a corporation in the first place. Unfortunately, you then proceed to call for human development privatisation? Well, it was not a corporation, but it has always had the "elements" of a corporation. Systems such as feudalism etc. Socialism failed as it stifled the need for individual productivity. Capitalism rewards the individual (not necessaryily equitably, but a reward, all the same) Would folks here be aware that today there are people in Developed Countries who sit all days combing through dictionaries and patenting words? There is now a matured "IP Industry" trading on those names out there and don't be surprised if soon you wake up only to find out that you cannot use your name on the internet - because someone patented or registered it as a trademark. It's baaad! This is not a joke! You are comparing the best case Open Source Scenario with worst case patents. Apple was able to win against cyber squatters http://news.cnet.com/Apple-wins-iTunes-cybersquatting-battle/2100-1030_3-561.... People are also known to be *reasonable* in the patent world. The iPhone (brand name) is a Cisco brand for their IP phones, but they let brand go to apple (court battles notwithstanding :) ). Given that items like the kiondo are national heritage, and the government controls the same, was it not the government (or whatever aspiring local entrepreneur) to patent it? Many times, people have the money to patent, they just lack the initiative. If you buy a car, you ensure you get a log book, when you buy land, you ensure you get a title deed, invent something? Get a patent. Otherwise, how will you protect your one + year of effort? Praying on the goodwill of fellow human beings? -- With Regards, Phares Kariuki | T: +254 734 810 802 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares |

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 9:36 PM, saidimu apale <saidimu@gmail.com> wrote:

Back to patents. Why should the government offer inventors *any* protection? Why not let competition (fair or unfair) sort out the winners and losers?

Until you can satisfactorily answer that question, then you don't really understand the function of patents.

It is actually illegal to use public funds/resources to protect private interests. This is why it would be a mistake to allow public offices, e.g. State Law Office and dedicated police offers, to enforce the day-to-day protection of (mostly wealthy western corporates) private IPs/trademark rights. Yes, the law may exist, but the aggrieved companies should incur the benefits and costs of their registered rights- NOT for them to enjoy the benefits yet additionally charge taxpayers the costs of maintaining the status quo.

It is actually illegal to use public funds/resources to protect private interests. This is why it would be a mistake to allow public offices, e.g. State Law Office and dedicated police offers, to enforce the day-to-day protection of (mostly wealthy western corporates) private IPs/trademark rights. Yes, the law may exist, but the aggrieved companies should incur the benefits and costs of their registered rights- NOT for them to enjoy the benefits yet additionally charge taxpayers the costs of maintaining the status quo By this argument a registrar of motor vehicles, state land office or police force is illegal, as they exist to protect private property. Unless you don't believe in the notion of *any* intellectual property? Hence in a university, copying an assignment is just as well? -- With Regards, Phares Kariuki | T: +254 734 810 802 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares |

Again, Apple just patented an OS That forces a user to watch adverts. I have no problem with that, but we seem to be in a race to patent anything doable in IT. I thought patents were about intentions. What next? A patent for a program that makes a sound when an OS boots? p.s. Why hasn't Microsoft patented the BSOD? -- with Regards: Get your free technology e-magazine in pdf format: Tekniaonline: http://bit.ly/tekniaonline-2 Sterotyping: Abednego, tell the tribe by the name; visit the blog : http://gramware.blogspot.com

What if the Internet and the web were patented? Pay a royalty for every email we send/receive? Whenever browse the www ?.... "Then the question was would it be something that could be rolled out to the rest of the world? We didn't know for sure but when we worked on it, we decided not to patent, not to copyright, not to control, but to share everything we knew about the Internet design to the general public all around the world...." <http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9138216/Cerf_Turning_off_pieces_of_the_Net_not_sensible_?taxonomyId=62&pageNumber=1> Today was a great day!!! Sir Tim Berners-Lee whom also shared his www invention with the world, making the Internet grow exponentially spoke to us at Strathmore university. <http://strathmore.edu/News.php?NewsID=188> He called for truthfulness in modern communication technologies. And completeness of messages to convey the intended context. Cautioning against damages fast modern communications technologies can cause, if misused. <http://kenyanpoet.blogspot.com/2009/11/sir-tim-berners-lee-www-inventor-lands.html> Kenya is among the first beneficiaries of the partnership with Tim's Web Foundation which was recently launched at the just concluded 4th Internet Governance Forum in Sharm El sheikh, Egypt. The Foundation aims to do a lot of good for underprivileged people of this world. I rest my case,,, a. On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 6:46 PM, Frankline Chitwa <frank.chitwa@gmail.com> wrote:

On a small scale or when trying to stifle competition, patents make a lot of sense. Howver, in the big picture, I believe patents simply stifle development. Imagine if Henry Ford patented the car, and continued to patent each improvement, imagine in the wright brothers patented the plane, imagine if bell patented the light bulb or benjamin Frankline patented elecricity generation and the list goes on and on(may I say to patents like unga making and chai making technologies). Do you think the world would be where it is now?

Right now everybody just wants to make money and from all the selfishness around, it makes sense to patent something for a short while, however, long term or total patenting just doesn't convince. It echoes exactly what this society is becoming:selfish

On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 5:20 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Again, Apple just patented an OS That forces a user to watch adverts. I have no problem with that, but we seem to be in a race to patent anything doable in IT. I thought patents were about intentions.  What next? A patent for a program that makes a sound when an OS boots? p.s. Why hasn't Microsoft patented the BSOD?

-- with Regards:

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Denis It is not about stifling inovation but acknowledging the other party's effort by paying royalties. Me thinks On Jan 26, 2010 12:30 AM, "Dennis Kioko" <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote: And now for a recap of recent headlines from the Tech Industry - Nokia sues Apple for Patent Infringement - Apple sues Nokia for patent infringement - Nokia sues Apple again for patent Infringement - Apple sues Nokia again for patent infringement - Kodak sues Blackberry for patent Infringement - Motorola sues Blackberry for patent infringement .... Software patents have become the greatest tools to stifle innovation. Basically any new smart-phone developed in the Us will have infringed on several patents by the time you launch it, This will now be coming soon to computers _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general

I guess just like any other issue, patents are a double edged sword. Until the negative impact of patents overrides the positive impact ( mass protests , activists getting their way etc) the evil will prevail Humanity will always self regulate, many times at the expense of lives.... On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 5:59 AM, saidimu apale <saidimu@gmail.com> wrote:

Patrick, you should read this entire thread from the beginning. Many have already outlined problems with the idea/implementation.

And while you're at it, you should look at the patent granted for an "Anti-Eating Mouth Cage" and other assorted absurdities: http://totallyabsurd.com/antieatingmouthcage.htm

For a more serious critique of the fundamental assumptions underlying patents, this libertarian lawyer has an interesting article: http://mises.org/daily/4018, and an outline of the costs associated with patents (since most people mostly just talk about the benefits of the patent system): http://mises.org/article.aspx?Id=1763

It is a complex issue: it isn't as simple as business-as-usual or kill-the-system.

Any IP lawyers, or knowledgeable players, on the list? What is the Kenyan patent system like?

Saidi

On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 6:12 PM, Patrick Karanja <wabethi@gmail.com>wrote:

...

Denis It is not about stifling inovation but acknowledging the other party's effort by paying royalties.

Me thinks

On Jan 26, 2010 12:30 AM, "Dennis Kioko" <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:

And now for a recap of recent headlines from the Tech Industry

- Nokia sues Apple for Patent Infringement - Apple sues Nokia for patent infringement - Nokia sues Apple again for patent Infringement - Apple sues Nokia again for patent infringement - Kodak sues Blackberry for patent Infringement - Motorola sues Blackberry for patent infringement

....

Software patents have become the greatest tools to stifle innovation. Basically any new smart-phone developed in the Us will have infringed on several patents by the time you launch it, This will now be coming soon to computers

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-- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- God is not an excuse for lack of discipline -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.

Then i think we need like 100 more such cases for the law enforcers to realise there is a problem. I encourage anyone feeling their patent has been infringed to SUE! On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:

In the Kodak example, Blackberry is been sued for technology that allows one to preview photos on their phones. And given that Microsoft patented Sudo, anyone coming up with an OS that presents user with an interface to log in as root before certain actions are performed may find themselves in court.

In the case of Apple, serving adverts with software in an operating system may infringe on their patents.

Before you launch any software or device, you now have to hunt for patents that you broke in coming up with your original idea.

I think patents should protect algorithms while software should be protected by copyright. As for devices, the interface rather than use of a certian technology should be the one to be protected.

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-- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- God is not an excuse for lack of discipline -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.

Hey, On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 11:33 PM, Ashok Hariharan <ashok@parliaments.info>wrote:

I wish someone had patented fire and sold it to the rest of the world. You and me would be paying money to light a match.

...

I guess if you havent invented something and had it stolen then you have nothing to worry about or to care for ....which is most of us.

Haven't you seen that a nobel prize was awarded for some work on figuring

out the way ribosomes work=Protein manufacture and they patented that. So I guess if you are living, you owe someone some royalties.. I think I can come up with a 'finance your proteins' schema a la 'finance your [kid's university|car|house]' scheme. Oh! wait, I'll patent that too http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20091007/1318556449.shtml http://yalepatents.org/2009/10/07/nobel-chemistry-work-patented-by-yale-and-... Patenting has become excessive = my take. Did you know sudo is patented too?

Record companies are going broke because distribution channels have cut out the middle man. Imagine trying to sell your record in Australia in 1990? Right now you just need Itunes.

I agree on the distribution channel, however, the record companies are to blame for not changing their model in good time... I find the music industry flawed. IMHO, I'd be happier if the producer's got the music, as they are the ones with the *creative input*. Apart from a few artists, most musicians depend on their producers, they just happen to be gifted with both the looks and the voice to perform. If musicians were actually *that* talented, why do many resort to lip syncing when tasked with live performances, but that is neither here nor there... In the software world, it would be similar to paying for demo software... -- With Regards, Phares Kariuki | T: +254 734 810 802 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares |

Why is Apple evil? Just because they make beautiful products that are not open source does not make them evil. Sometimes I simply get tired of hearing about open source, not that I am not an advocate of open source, but the moral high ground open source proponents tend to take, they stand their on their pedestals and watch look down upon the masses. I think consumers should be left to decide, if they want to go open source or proprietary. Without being labelled evil. What would you feel if I said open source was extremist? Would you be happy?

Hadn't considered the pharmaceutical approach, but the problem with patents is that most patent owners would like to make it to the top 10 of fobres list using that patent. This makes anything that relies on the patent ridiculously expensive. Most patents now seem to cover concept rather than algorithms, like the Apple one that has got other manufacturers scared. As for open source, when a community breaks a restrictive patent, the owner is unable to sue while the rest tend to use the technology (jail broken iPhone). I still agree with you that most open source enthusiasthics (not coders) tend to be haters. I was in a Linux meeting where the key speaker bashed windows and went ahead to give a few outdated and other completely wrong facts about linux. BTW, Apple is still evil, how do you sell a car(iPhone) and then dictate where (telco) and how it will be fuelled(tariff) and where it will be driven? -- with Regards: Get your free technology e-magazine in pdf format: Tekniaonline: http://bit.ly/tekniaonline-2 Sterotyping: Abednego, tell the tribe by the name; visit the blog : http://gramware.blogspot.com

My two cents.... If I spend X-billions making a multi-touch, I should be allowed X number of years to recover my money - because I came up with the idea first. Secondly, If I come up with a multi-touch, and I do not patent, then company Y will patent and charge me for my own research. === Lack of patents will breed lack of motivation - and the world foresore this, and that's why the patents expire after a period of 5 years [correct me if I am wrong] - and the guys copying may just have to pay royalties. Please read the story of the guy who invented the "intermittent windshield wiper" [google or wikipedia it] Or watch the movie [the dramatization is more exciting] " A flash of Genius" - a classic case of why patenting is important.

Different technologies and industries have different patents Drugs about 20 years some 10 depending on how vital , other industries much shorter(multitouch maybe 1 to 2 years) ,music for life....etc On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Billy <billyx5@gmail.com> wrote:

Actually the patent lasts for 20 years

-Billy

2009/11/13 ndungu stephen <ndungustephen@gmail.com>

...

My two cents....

If I spend X-billions making a multi-touch, I should be allowed X number of years to recover my money - because I came up with the idea first.

Secondly, If I come up with a multi-touch, and I do not patent, then company Y will patent and charge me for my own research.

=== Lack of patents will breed lack of motivation - and the world foresore this, and that's why the patents expire after a period of 5 years [correct me if I am wrong] - and the guys copying may just have to pay royalties.

Please read the story of the guy who invented the "intermittent windshield wiper" [google or wikipedia it]

Or watch the movie [the dramatization is more exciting] " A flash of Genius" - a classic case of why patenting is important.

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-- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- God is not an excuse for lack of discipline -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.