A quick one for the combat aircraft enthusiast. What are the odds of KAF aquiring F-15s to balance the new SU-30 threat from UPDF? _______________________________________________ *Without requirements or design, programming is the art of adding bugs to an empty text file.* _______________________________________________ * *
On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 18:19, James Nzomo <kazikubwa@gmail.com> wrote:
A quick one for the combat aircraft enthusiast. What are the odds of KAF aquiring F-15s to balance the new SU-30 threat from UPDF?
Why should they try to "balance"? I don't see even a remote possibility of a duel between KDF and UPDF. If there was gonna be any, could have erupted long ago over Migingo. BTW, out of curiosity, is this why Obako is afraid of kicking M7 out of Migingo?? -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. Please consider the environment before printing this email.
There is always a remote possibility of duel wherever human beings and geopolitics is concerned. The reason baba Jim hasn't kicked out M7 is coz we understand diplomacy better. Besides, some argue that amongst the recent batch of Jordadian F-5s are F-5EMs that can hold their own against the version of SU across the border _______________________________________________ *Without requirements or design, programming is the art of adding bugs to an empty text file.* _______________________________________________ * * 2012/1/17 Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>
On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 18:19, James Nzomo <kazikubwa@gmail.com> wrote:
A quick one for the combat aircraft enthusiast. What are the odds of KAF aquiring F-15s to balance the new SU-30 threat from UPDF?
Why should they try to "balance"? I don't see even a remote possibility of a duel between KDF and UPDF. If there was gonna be any, could have erupted long ago over Migingo. BTW, out of curiosity, is this why Obako is afraid of kicking M7 out of Migingo??
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. Please consider the environment before printing this email.
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Aaaai; Are we casting our nets wider when we are yet to finish with the shabab question? But we should get prepared, with some oil, they may get belligerent. Our humvees and old Jordanian jets should sort us in the short term, that's the rumour. Long term the US can always donate some military hardware (we pay slowly). Peter On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 7:19 PM, James Nzomo <kazikubwa@gmail.com> wrote:
There is always a remote possibility of duel wherever human beings and geopolitics is concerned. The reason baba Jim hasn't kicked out M7 is coz we understand diplomacy better. Besides, some argue that amongst the recent batch of Jordadian F-5s are F-5EMs that can hold their own against the version of SU across the border
Sometimes I suspect that Museveni could be the person behind the kidnappings which triggered operation linda nchi to gauge the might of the Kenya army. It was revealed thru cablegate that he had some reservations on the capability of our army. Museveni is also known to harbour expansionist ideas in this EAC thingy... I think he started with Migingi and when we did not reciprocate, MAYBE pulled some Al Shabaab strings to see what transpires. All these are just thoughts that I have, sio ati mi ni journalist. S. On 17 January 2012 20:14, Peter Osotsi <peter.osotsi@gmail.com> wrote:
Aaaai;
Are we casting our nets wider when we are yet to finish with the shabab question?
But we should get prepared, with some oil, they may get belligerent. Our humvees and old Jordanian jets should sort us in the short term, that's the rumour. Long term the US can always donate some military hardware (we pay slowly).
Peter
On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 7:19 PM, James Nzomo <kazikubwa@gmail.com> wrote:
There is always a remote possibility of duel wherever human beings and geopolitics is concerned. The reason baba Jim hasn't kicked out M7 is coz we understand diplomacy better. Besides, some argue that amongst the recent batch of Jordadian F-5s are F-5EMs that can hold their own against the version of SU across the border
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In essence the upgrade of Kenya's military hardware is critical. The F5's (even though they have major upgrades) are no match to the SU's recently acquired by +256 but due to the expenses involved I may somehow understand the purchase of the Jordanian F5's. Kenya has an Army, Navy and Airforce to sustain which in comparison to Uganda which has a tiny naval force just for the Lake. Uganda's acquisition of the modern air fleet was tactical and also somewhat egotistical in my opinion. Their recent discovery of oil has boosted their ego and M7 foresee themselves being a regional power hence need to upgrade their military assets. Kenya will be forced to upgrade their arsenal at some point but it will be at a high cost and definitely it wont be any time soon. With the current war, elections around the corner and the devolution process will drain the Treasury. Let's hope the development and competition between the counties will be able to raise the country's GDP and eventually raise necessary resources... Plus the MP's walipe ushuru!! Kind Regards, [image: Ephraim Muchemi] [image: Chagua Amani, Zuia Noma][image: Freedom][image: Global Warming is real][image: Reduce, Reuse, Recycle] Social Profile: [image: Facebook] <http://www.facebook.com/emuchemi> [image: Twitter] <http://www.twitter.com/efi_m> [image: LinkedIn]<http://www.linkedin.com/in/emuchemi> [image: foursquare] <https://foursquare.com/efi_m> [image: WordPress]<http://littlehacker.wordpress.com> Contact me: [image: Google Talk] emuchemi [image: Y! Messenger] emuchemi [image: Skype] flyefi [image: Twitter] <http://twitter.com/efi_m>Latest tweet: I support #wikipediablackout! Show your support here http://t.co/kk7eFE9e Follow @efi_m <http://twitter.com/efi_m> Reply <http://twitter.com/?status=@efi_m%20&in_reply_to_status_id=159546629773475840&in_reply_to=efi_m> Retweet <http://twitter.com/?status=RT%20%40efi_m%3A%20I%20support%20%23wikipediablackout!%20Show%20your%20support%20here%20http%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2Fkk7eFE9e> 11:04 Jan-18<http://twitter.com/efi_m/statuses/159546629773475840> Get this email app! <http://www.wisestamp.com/apps/twitter?utm_source=extension&utm_medium=email&utm_term=twitter&utm_campaign=apps> “"I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying." - Oscar Wilde<http://www.quotesdaddy.com/quote/960302/oscar-wilde/i-am-so-clever-that-sometimes-i-dont-understand-a> ” Get this email app! <http://www.wisestamp.com/apps/quotes?utm_source=extension&utm_medium=email&utm_term=quotes&utm_campaign=apps> [image: WWF - World Wide Fund For Nature] <http://bit.ly/wwf-site>Donate<http://bit.ly/wwf-site>| Share on Facebook <http://on.fb.me/kE6cbn> | Share on Twitter<http://bit.ly/Tweet-WWF>Add this to your emails<http://www.wisestamp.com/apps/causeWWF?utm_source=extension&utm_medium=email&utm_term=causeWWF&utm_campaign=apps> Printing emails is SO 2009 Get a signature like this. <http://r1.wisestamp.com/r/landing?promo=19&dest=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wisestamp.com%2Femail-install%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_campaign%3Dpromo_19> CLICK HERE.<http://r1.wisestamp.com/r/landing?promo=19&dest=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wisestamp.com%2Femail-install%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_campaign%3Dpromo_19> On 18 January 2012 14:31, Simon Mbuthia <simon.mbuthia@gmail.com> wrote:
Sometimes I suspect that Museveni could be the person behind the kidnappings which triggered operation linda nchi to gauge the might of the Kenya army. It was revealed thru cablegate that he had some reservations on the capability of our army. Museveni is also known to harbour expansionist ideas in this EAC thingy... I think he started with Migingi and when we did not reciprocate, MAYBE pulled some Al Shabaab strings to see what transpires.
All these are just thoughts that I have, sio ati mi ni journalist.
S.
On 17 January 2012 20:14, Peter Osotsi <peter.osotsi@gmail.com> wrote:
Aaaai;
Are we casting our nets wider when we are yet to finish with the shabab question?
But we should get prepared, with some oil, they may get belligerent. Our humvees and old Jordanian jets should sort us in the short term, that's the rumour. Long term the US can always donate some military hardware (we pay slowly).
Peter
On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 7:19 PM, James Nzomo <kazikubwa@gmail.com> wrote:
There is always a remote possibility of duel wherever human beings and geopolitics is concerned. The reason baba Jim hasn't kicked out M7 is coz we understand diplomacy better. Besides, some argue that amongst the recent batch of Jordadian F-5s are F-5EMs that can hold their own against the version of SU across the border
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At one point, we will be ass kicked by the SU's.
On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 15:26, Ephraim Muchemi <emuchemi@gmail.com> wrote:
In essence the upgrade of Kenya's military hardware is critical. The F5's (even though they have major upgrades) are no match to the SU's recently acquired by +256 but due to the expenses involved I may somehow understand the purchase of the Jordanian F5's. Kenya has an Army, Navy and Airforce to sustain which in comparison to Uganda which has a tiny naval force just for the Lake.
Uganda's acquisition of the modern air fleet was tactical and also somewhat egotistical in my opinion. Their recent discovery of oil has boosted their ego and M7 foresee themselves being a regional power hence need to upgrade their military assets.
Kenya will be forced to upgrade their arsenal at some point but it will be at a high cost and definitely it wont be any time soon. With the current war, elections around the corner and the devolution process will drain the Treasury. Let's hope the development and competition between the counties will be able to raise the country's GDP and eventually raise necessary resources... Plus the MP's walipe ushuru!!
We will strike oil soon, too, and then we can buy the best military hardware, while citizens die of hunger at different parts of Kenya. Never mind. -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. Please consider the environment before printing this email.
F15s will not balance out the threat. Su-30 has better engines n fire power. we can just hope the +256 pilots are not as skilled as ours. Thanks and regards, Ian On 18 January 2012 14:31, Simon Mbuthia <simon.mbuthia@gmail.com> wrote:
Sometimes I suspect that Museveni could be the person behind the kidnappings which triggered operation linda nchi to gauge the might of the Kenya army. It was revealed thru cablegate that he had some reservations on the capability of our army. Museveni is also known to harbour expansionist ideas in this EAC thingy... I think he started with Migingi and when we did not reciprocate, MAYBE pulled some Al Shabaab strings to see what transpires.
All these are just thoughts that I have, sio ati mi ni journalist.
S.
On 17 January 2012 20:14, Peter Osotsi <peter.osotsi@gmail.com> wrote:
Aaaai;
Are we casting our nets wider when we are yet to finish with the shabab question?
But we should get prepared, with some oil, they may get belligerent. Our humvees and old Jordanian jets should sort us in the short term, that's the rumour. Long term the US can always donate some military hardware (we pay slowly).
Peter
On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 7:19 PM, James Nzomo <kazikubwa@gmail.com> wrote:
There is always a remote possibility of duel wherever human beings and geopolitics is concerned. The reason baba Jim hasn't kicked out M7 is coz we understand diplomacy better. Besides, some argue that amongst the recent batch of Jordadian F-5s are F-5EMs that can hold their own against the version of SU across the border
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People say that the SUs' are better than the F-16s,F-18s. But what if Kenya decides to talk to the chinese for their fighter planes?
On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Vincent Kiama <vinikiama@gmail.com> wrote:
People say that the SUs' are better than the F-16s,F-18s. But what if Kenya decides to talk to the chinese for their fighter planes?
like the J-10 or the SU-27
Drones are outsmarting F-35's. This is where smart countries are at. Technology beats all. I would advice GOK to go the drone way. On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 4:46 PM, Vincent Kiama <vinikiama@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Vincent Kiama <vinikiama@gmail.com> wrote:
People say that the SUs' are better than the F-16s,F-18s. But what if Kenya decides to talk to the chinese for their fighter planes?
like the J-10 or the SU-27 _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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Realistically speaking, we don't have the financial capability to purchase and maintain a modern 5th Generation fleet of airforce planes. Chinese planes are not a good option at all. Current Safety record not impressive at all. With the pennies we have currently if we are to attempt buying new then better to buy Russian or "Czech region" planes. If second hand better to buy USA, British or French planes. Historically China are fond of replicating aircraft designs and they dont even have a aircraft carrier that is theirs. they recently acquired a russian vessel and refurrbishing it and I doubt they will do a good job. You should see the plane they have come up with to counter the F-22... it is just a degraded comical photocopy of an F-22 ... Kind Regards, [image: Ephraim Muchemi] [image: Chagua Amani, Zuia Noma][image: Freedom][image: Global Warming is real][image: Reduce, Reuse, Recycle] Social Profile: [image: Facebook] <http://www.facebook.com/emuchemi> [image: Twitter] <http://www.twitter.com/efi_m> [image: LinkedIn]<http://www.linkedin.com/in/emuchemi> [image: foursquare] <https://foursquare.com/efi_m> [image: WordPress]<http://littlehacker.wordpress.com> Contact me: [image: Google Talk] emuchemi [image: Y! Messenger] emuchemi [image: Skype] flyefi [image: Twitter] <http://twitter.com/efi_m>Latest tweet: I support #wikipediablackout! Show your support here http://t.co/kk7eFE9e Follow @efi_m <http://twitter.com/efi_m> Reply <http://twitter.com/?status=@efi_m%20&in_reply_to_status_id=159546629773475840&in_reply_to=efi_m> Retweet <http://twitter.com/?status=RT%20%40efi_m%3A%20I%20support%20%23wikipediablackout!%20Show%20your%20support%20here%20http%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2Fkk7eFE9e> 11:04 Jan-18<http://twitter.com/efi_m/statuses/159546629773475840> Get this email app! <http://www.wisestamp.com/apps/twitter?utm_source=extension&utm_medium=email&utm_term=twitter&utm_campaign=apps> “"Any man who can drive safely while kissing a pretty girl is simply not giving the kiss the attention it deserves." - Albert Einstein<http://www.quotesdaddy.com/quote/1185037/albert-einstein/any-man-who-can-drive-safely-while-kissing-a-pretty> ” Get this email app! <http://www.wisestamp.com/apps/quotes?utm_source=extension&utm_medium=email&utm_term=quotes&utm_campaign=apps> [image: WWF - World Wide Fund For Nature] <http://bit.ly/wwf-site>Donate<http://bit.ly/wwf-site>| Share on Facebook <http://on.fb.me/kE6cbn> | Share on Twitter<http://bit.ly/Tweet-WWF>Add this to your emails<http://www.wisestamp.com/apps/causeWWF?utm_source=extension&utm_medium=email&utm_term=causeWWF&utm_campaign=apps> Printing emails is SO 2009 Get a signature like this. <http://r1.wisestamp.com/r/landing?promo=19&dest=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wisestamp.com%2Femail-install%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_campaign%3Dpromo_19> CLICK HERE.<http://r1.wisestamp.com/r/landing?promo=19&dest=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wisestamp.com%2Femail-install%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_campaign%3Dpromo_19> On 18 January 2012 16:49, Juggy Boy <am.mambo@gmail.com> wrote:
Drones are outsmarting F-35's. This is where smart countries are at. Technology beats all. I would advice GOK to go the drone way.
On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 4:46 PM, Vincent Kiama <vinikiama@gmail.com>wrote:
On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Vincent Kiama <vinikiama@gmail.com> wrote:
People say that the SUs' are better than the F-16s,F-18s. But what if Kenya decides to talk to the chinese for their fighter planes?
like the J-10 or the SU-27 _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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@Ian Macharia The F-15 has undergone very many upgrades since its maiden flight in the 70s. The most recent being the strike eagle. The SU-30 is also an upgrade to the SU-27. The SU-30 is rumoured to have an edge over the 15 mainly by indian and russian sources but in reality, in every real engagement that the two birds met, the SU never made it back to base. The F-15 has never been lost to enemy action. Only accidents. In addition, the SU-30MK across the border is the shittyest export version that the ruskies have to offer and can be given a run for its bling by the latest F-5ME upgrade. An epic win in modern air combat engagements is mostly determined by onboard computing power radar systems. Engines are only part of a bigger equation. An aircraft can have weaker engines but if it has a better thrust to weight ratio then it simply flies faster and higher. F-22s are off limits to anyone other than USAF. Even Israel is not known to fly those. @Vincent chinese combat aircraft are the worst. any AF that turns to them for stock can be wiped out easily. No citizen can sleep peacefully under those wings. @Muchemi If the country could support goldenberg and all the other low down dirty sh*, then a small fleet of 5th gen combat aircraft is nothing. The deterrent is justifiable. Plus 5th gen is overkill. 4 or 4.5 gen fleet would be more than adequate. -- _______________________________________________ *Without requirements or design, programming is the art of adding bugs to an empty text file.* _______________________________________________ * *
@Juggy drones (pilotless interceptors/fighters) are still in RnD. Don't let green lantern movie fool you : ). The ones you hear flying in som,irq & afg do reccon and ground attack jobs. Currently, the human brain is still the most powerfull computing device in an aircraft. -- _______________________________________________ *Without requirements or design, programming is the art of adding bugs to an empty text file.* _______________________________________________ * *
Wherever there are plane/ fighter plane discussions, count me in as enthusiast. See below how the internet has educated all of us over the years... :-)) OK, Here's my view. We do not need new fighters or aircraft. What we need is an elaborate Air Defense System which are equipped with both fixed and mobile SAMs, both short range and long range. These are good enough to spread out over various locations, and are key for our terrain. The SAMs can be complimented by attack helicopters and the basic fighters. A proper defense strategy will go a long way to put down any threats to our borders, thus discouraging any ideas or attempts at incursions. I read on the net that china was developing very new versions of SAMs and Anti-Ship Surface-Surface guided munitions. So the day some foreign Air forces decide to take on this giant, I'm certain the skies and the oceans will be filled with huge numbers of guided missiles out numbering the most modern planes and ships by a huge huge factor. BTW, seems Drones are only useful in sting operations and cannot have an overall effect due to the very small payloads they carry. Here are some SAMs in action ( Russian technology? ) : - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZZEotl7AlY - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBXgpTt_JB8&feature=related - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT2PO3q1uBM&feature=fvsr - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-xs_ZTrwD4 PS: Fighter SIMs' games tend to have their side effects long after you stop playing them. :-))
On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 7:37 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
Wherever there are plane/ fighter plane discussions, count me in as enthusiast. See below how the internet has educated all of us over the years... :-))
OK, Here's my view. We do not need new fighters or aircraft. What we need is an elaborate Air Defense System which are equipped with both fixed and mobile SAMs, both short range and long range. These are good enough to spread out over various locations, and are key for our terrain. The SAMs can be complimented by attack helicopters and the basic fighters. A proper defense strategy will go a long way to put down any threats to our borders, thus discouraging any ideas or attempts at incursions. I read on the net that china was developing very new versions of SAMs and Anti-Ship Surface-Surface guided munitions. So the day some foreign Air forces decide to take on this giant, I'm certain the skies and the oceans will be filled with huge numbers of guided missiles out numbering the most modern planes and ships by a huge huge factor. BTW, seems Drones are only useful in sting operations and cannot have an overall effect due to the very small payloads they carry.
Here are some SAMs in action ( Russian technology? ) :
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZZEotl7AlY
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBXgpTt_JB8&feature=related
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT2PO3q1uBM&feature=fvsr
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-xs_ZTrwD4
PS: Fighter SIMs' games tend to have their side effects long after you stop playing them. :-))
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Here is one reason I appreciate skunkworks. All this info and wikipedia hawana stima? -- Lusiola Brian |3 R 1 /-\ |\|
@Aki A true CFS gamer would a not downplay the role of Air Superiority and Air Power! There is a reason why countries pay top dollar... *$20M to 200$M per piece *for *tens, hundreds and even thousands* of these birds *and even 100 times more for R&D*....instead of investing more in SAMs. _______________________________________________ *Without requirements or design, programming is the art of adding bugs to an empty text file.* _______________________________________________ * * 2012/1/18 Brian L <lusiola@gmail.com>
On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 7:37 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
Wherever there are plane/ fighter plane discussions, count me in as enthusiast. See below how the internet has educated all of us over the years... :-))
OK, Here's my view. We do not need new fighters or aircraft. What we need is an elaborate Air Defense System which are equipped with both fixed and mobile SAMs, both short range and long range. These are good enough to spread out over various locations, and are key for our terrain. The SAMs can be complimented by attack helicopters and the basic fighters. A proper defense strategy will go a long way to put down any threats to our borders, thus discouraging any ideas or attempts at incursions. I read on the net that china was developing very new versions of SAMs and Anti-Ship Surface-Surface guided munitions. So the day some foreign Air forces decide to take on this giant, I'm certain the skies and the oceans will be filled with huge numbers of guided missiles out numbering the most modern planes and ships by a huge huge factor. BTW, seems Drones are only useful in sting operations and cannot have an overall effect due to the very small payloads they carry.
Here are some SAMs in action ( Russian technology? ) :
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZZEotl7AlY
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBXgpTt_JB8&feature=related
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT2PO3q1uBM&feature=fvsr
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-xs_ZTrwD4
PS: Fighter SIMs' games tend to have their side effects long after you stop playing them. :-))
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Here is one reason I appreciate skunkworks. All this info and wikipedia hawana stima?
-- Lusiola Brian |3 R 1 /-\ |\|
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Hi @James, I agree with you to a certain level but unfortunately I cannot disagree with you on a public forum on such sensitive issues because some may get the wrong idea out there. Trust me, if you did the maths on flight time in mach speeds between the incoming fighter and defense against it, you would see the SAMs in a proper Air Defense System are the only correct option. I'm going to point you in the right direction, for interest sake and as a former Fighter Realistic SIM addict..... :-) On Sept 11, when the commercial planes hit the towers in NY, and when the authorities realised what was going on within minutes, a number of F16s were scrambled into the skies. The pilots of these fighter jets faced a very big dilema, because some of the planes turned off their radio beacons which provide ATC various information about the flights. What would they shoot down? Normal passenger planes that had nothing to do with what was going on or would they just take down any plane? Even when ATC grounded flights, the offending planes were not known. So you had the F16s looking blindly for targets and could do nothing, as its impossible to physically find a plane low flying at over 500km/h. The event happened so quickly that it was impossible to do anything, despite having the most modern and sophisticated Air Force in the world. It all fell back to intelligence failures, as is always the case everywhere. So idiots somewhere sat and did nothing, due to bureaucracy or protocols. So when all the most advance technology failed to do it work i,.e protect a country's citizens, what were the options then? Over and out. :-) Rgds. On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 10:37 PM, James Nzomo <kazikubwa@gmail.com> wrote:
@Aki A true CFS gamer would a not downplay the role of Air Superiority and Air Power! There is a reason why countries pay top dollar... *$20M to 200$M per piece *for *tens, hundreds and even thousands* of these birds *and even 100 times more for R&D*....instead of investing more in SAMs.
Modern fighters have countless countermeasures that can take care of SAM threats. There are aircraft designed to hunt and kill SAM Launch sites & systems. They've been in use since Vietnam. If you overemphasize on SAMs, these special birds can open the door for other aircraft to walk in and out of your airspace with impunity. In the case of 911, the solution is not the SAM, neither is it the warbird. The solution is early warning by INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES and swift action by COUNTER TERRORISM & SPECIAL LAW ENFORCEMENT SQUADS. _______________________________________________ *Without requirements or design, programming is the art of adding bugs to an empty text file.* _______________________________________________ * * 2012/1/19 aki <aki275@gmail.com>
Hi @James, I agree with you to a certain level but unfortunately I cannot disagree with you on a public forum on such sensitive issues because some may get the wrong idea out there. Trust me, if you did the maths on flight time in mach speeds between the incoming fighter and defense against it, you would see the SAMs in a proper Air Defense System are the only correct option. I'm going to point you in the right direction, for interest sake and as a former Fighter Realistic SIM addict..... :-)
On Sept 11, when the commercial planes hit the towers in NY, and when the authorities realised what was going on within minutes, a number of F16s were scrambled into the skies. The pilots of these fighter jets faced a very big dilema, because some of the planes turned off their radio beacons which provide ATC various information about the flights. What would they shoot down? Normal passenger planes that had nothing to do with what was going on or would they just take down any plane? Even when ATC grounded flights, the offending planes were not known. So you had the F16s looking blindly for targets and could do nothing, as its impossible to physically find a plane low flying at over 500km/h. The event happened so quickly that it was impossible to do anything, despite having the most modern and sophisticated Air Force in the world. It all fell back to intelligence failures, as is always the case everywhere. So idiots somewhere sat and did nothing, due to bureaucracy or protocols.
So when all the most advance technology failed to do it work i,.e protect a country's citizens, what were the options then?
Over and out. :-)
Rgds.
On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 10:37 PM, James Nzomo <kazikubwa@gmail.com> wrote:
@Aki A true CFS gamer would a not downplay the role of Air Superiority and Air Power! There is a reason why countries pay top dollar... *$20M to 200$M per piece *for *tens, hundreds and even thousands* of these birds *and even 100 times more for R&D*....instead of investing more in SAMs.
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The kind of wars we have seen upto these times are or have been between the advanced world and everyone else who dont have the capabilities to match. Modern fighters *do not* have the capabilities to take care of any*modern * Air Defenese Systems including SAMs even if they are steatlh fighters. Here is a sample of what China achieved with a missile : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EIC1heX80I&feature=related Rgds. On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 2:42 AM, James Nzomo <kazikubwa@gmail.com> wrote:
Modern fighters have countless countermeasures that can take care of SAM threats. There are aircraft designed to hunt and kill SAM Launch sites & systems. They've been in use since Vietnam. If you overemphasize on SAMs, these special birds can open the door for other aircraft to walk in and out of your airspace with impunity.
In the case of 911, the solution is not the SAM, neither is it the warbird. The solution is early warning by INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES and swift action by COUNTER TERRORISM & SPECIAL LAW ENFORCEMENT SQUADS.
I think we all agree that all factors (aircraft, airdefense systems and personel) all have to be in work in harmony to produce the highest effeciency possible for the betterment of the overal defense strategy. Hopefully the F-15s we acquired were the latest upgrade F-15C Eagle. F-15 has the highest kill ratio ever. I also agree with you that proper air defense system will go a long way. Thanks and regards, Ian On 19 January 2012 07:37, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
The kind of wars we have seen upto these times are or have been between the advanced world and everyone else who dont have the capabilities to match. Modern fighters *do not* have the capabilities to take care of any*modern * Air Defenese Systems including SAMs even if they are steatlh fighters.
Here is a sample of what China achieved with a missile : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EIC1heX80I&feature=related
Rgds.
On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 2:42 AM, James Nzomo <kazikubwa@gmail.com> wrote:
Modern fighters have countless countermeasures that can take care of SAM threats. There are aircraft designed to hunt and kill SAM Launch sites & systems. They've been in use since Vietnam. If you overemphasize on SAMs, these special birds can open the door for other aircraft to walk in and out of your airspace with impunity.
In the case of 911, the solution is not the SAM, neither is it the warbird. The solution is early warning by INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES and swift action by COUNTER TERRORISM & SPECIAL LAW ENFORCEMENT SQUADS.
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We have F-15s? This is news to me. I thought they were F-5s? On Thursday, January 19, 2012, Ian Macharia <machaian@gmail.com> wrote:
I think we all agree that all factors (aircraft, airdefense systems and personel) all have to be in work in harmony to produce the highest effeciency possible for the betterment of the overal defense strategy.
Hopefully the F-15s we acquired were the latest upgrade F-15C Eagle. F-15 has the highest kill ratio ever.
I also agree with you that proper air defense system will go a long way.
Thanks and regards,
Ian
On 19 January 2012 07:37, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
The kind of wars we have seen upto these times are or have been between
the advanced world and everyone else who dont have the capabilities to match. Modern fighters do not have the capabilities to take care of any modern Air Defenese Systems including SAMs even if they are steatlh fighters.
Here is a sample of what China achieved with a missile : China Satellite
Destroyer
Rgds.
On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 2:42 AM, James Nzomo <kazikubwa@gmail.com> wrote:
Modern fighters have countless countermeasures that can take care of
SAM threats.
There are aircraft designed to hunt and kill SAM Launch sites & systems. They've been in use since Vietnam. If you overemphasize on SAMs, these special birds can open the door for other aircraft to walk in and out of your airspace with impunity. In the case of 911, the solution is not the SAM, neither is it the warbird. The solution is early warning by INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES and swift action by COUNTER TERRORISM & SPECIAL LAW ENFORCEMENT SQUADS.
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Kenya may have acquired F-15's (not new though) but this is subject to confirmation from KDF. We can't tell for sure they have been delivered or it is just a rumour. On a lighter not let's wait for the SOPA strike to end & we can visit Wikipedia for confirmation..lol lol lol. @Aki I agree with u. Combination of Air Defenses and an Attack force vital especially with the way Kenya has concentrated all economic, industrial and administrative hubs in one region.. Kind Regards, [image: Ephraim Muchemi] [image: Chagua Amani, Zuia Noma][image: Freedom][image: Global Warming is real][image: Reduce, Reuse, Recycle] Social Profile: [image: Facebook] <http://www.facebook.com/emuchemi> [image: Twitter] <http://www.twitter.com/efi_m> [image: LinkedIn]<http://www.linkedin.com/in/emuchemi> [image: foursquare] <https://foursquare.com/efi_m> [image: WordPress]<http://littlehacker.wordpress.com> Contact me: [image: Google Talk] emuchemi [image: Y! Messenger] emuchemi [image: Skype] flyefi [image: Twitter] <http://twitter.com/efi_m>Latest tweet: @MediaMK brag much 2day?? lol .. G'morn Follow @efi_m <http://twitter.com/efi_m> Reply <http://twitter.com/?status=@efi_m%20&in_reply_to_status_id=159862271235981300&in_reply_to=efi_m> Retweet <http://twitter.com/?status=RT%20%40efi_m%3A%20%40MediaMK%20brag%20much%202day%3F%3F%20lol%20..%20G'morn> 07:58 Jan-19<http://twitter.com/efi_m/statuses/159862271235981312> Get this email app! <http://www.wisestamp.com/apps/twitter?utm_source=extension&utm_medium=email&utm_term=twitter&utm_campaign=apps> “"I am ready to meet my Maker. Whether my Maker is prepared for the ordeal of meeting me is another matter." - Winston Churchill<http://www.quotesdaddy.com/quote/280634/winston-churchill/i-am-ready-to-meet-my-maker-whether-my-maker-is-prepared> ” Get this email app! <http://www.wisestamp.com/apps/quotes?utm_source=extension&utm_medium=email&utm_term=quotes&utm_campaign=apps> [image: WWF - World Wide Fund For Nature] <http://bit.ly/wwf-site>Donate<http://bit.ly/wwf-site>| Share on Facebook <http://on.fb.me/kE6cbn> | Share on Twitter<http://bit.ly/Tweet-WWF>Add this to your emails<http://www.wisestamp.com/apps/causeWWF?utm_source=extension&utm_medium=email&utm_term=causeWWF&utm_campaign=apps> Printing emails is SO 2009 Get a signature like this. <http://r1.wisestamp.com/r/landing?promo=19&dest=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wisestamp.com%2Femail-install%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_campaign%3Dpromo_19> CLICK HERE.<http://r1.wisestamp.com/r/landing?promo=19&dest=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wisestamp.com%2Femail-install%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_campaign%3Dpromo_19> On 19 January 2012 09:41, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
We have F-15s?
This is news to me. I thought they were F-5s?
On Thursday, January 19, 2012, Ian Macharia <machaian@gmail.com> wrote:
I think we all agree that all factors (aircraft, airdefense systems and personel) all have to be in work in harmony to produce the highest effeciency possible for the betterment of the overal defense strategy.
Hopefully the F-15s we acquired were the latest upgrade F-15C Eagle. F-15 has the highest kill ratio ever.
I also agree with you that proper air defense system will go a long way.
Thanks and regards,
Ian
On 19 January 2012 07:37, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
The kind of wars we have seen upto these times are or have been between
the advanced world and everyone else who dont have the capabilities to match. Modern fighters do not have the capabilities to take care of any modern Air Defenese Systems including SAMs even if they are steatlh fighters.
Here is a sample of what China achieved with a missile : China
Satellite Destroyer
Rgds.
On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 2:42 AM, James Nzomo <kazikubwa@gmail.com>
wrote:
Modern fighters have countless countermeasures that can take care of
SAM threats.
There are aircraft designed to hunt and kill SAM Launch sites & systems. They've been in use since Vietnam. If you overemphasize on SAMs, these special birds can open the door for other aircraft to walk in and out of your airspace with impunity. In the case of 911, the solution is not the SAM, neither is it the warbird. The solution is early warning by INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES and swift action by COUNTER TERRORISM & SPECIAL LAW ENFORCEMENT SQUADS.
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Check this out... http://intelligencebriefs.com/?p=1085 On 19 January 2012 09:54, Ephraim Muchemi <emuchemi@gmail.com> wrote:
Kenya may have acquired F-15's (not new though) but this is subject to confirmation from KDF. We can't tell for sure they have been delivered or it is just a rumour.
On a lighter not let's wait for the SOPA strike to end & we can visit Wikipedia for confirmation..lol lol lol.
@Aki I agree with u. Combination of Air Defenses and an Attack force vital especially with the way Kenya has concentrated all economic, industrial and administrative hubs in one region..
Kind Regards,
[image: Ephraim Muchemi]
[image: Chagua Amani, Zuia Noma][image: Freedom][image: Global Warming is real][image: Reduce, Reuse, Recycle]
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On 19 January 2012 09:41, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
We have F-15s?
This is news to me. I thought they were F-5s?
On Thursday, January 19, 2012, Ian Macharia <machaian@gmail.com> wrote:
I think we all agree that all factors (aircraft, airdefense systems and personel) all have to be in work in harmony to produce the highest effeciency possible for the betterment of the overal defense strategy.
Hopefully the F-15s we acquired were the latest upgrade F-15C Eagle. F-15 has the highest kill ratio ever.
I also agree with you that proper air defense system will go a long way.
Thanks and regards,
Ian
On 19 January 2012 07:37, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
The kind of wars we have seen upto these times are or have
been between the advanced world and everyone else who dont have the capabilities to match. Modern fighters do not have the capabilities to take care of any modern Air Defenese Systems including SAMs even if they are steatlh fighters.
Here is a sample of what China achieved with a missile : China
Satellite Destroyer
Rgds.
On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 2:42 AM, James Nzomo <kazikubwa@gmail.com>
wrote:
Modern fighters have countless countermeasures that can take care of
SAM threats.
There are aircraft designed to hunt and kill SAM Launch sites & systems. They've been in use since Vietnam. If you overemphasize on SAMs, these special birds can open the door for other aircraft to walk in and out of your airspace with impunity. In the case of 911, the solution is not the SAM, neither is it the warbird. The solution is early warning by INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES and swift action by COUNTER TERRORISM & SPECIAL LAW ENFORCEMENT SQUADS.
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@Aki Statistics speak louder than Videos. Guess how many air to air kills there have been since the advent of SAMs circa 1960s VS. the number of fighters that have fallen to SAMs? If sams are that good, how come why did the usaf flew sorties deep into nam despite there being telephone pole size SAMs. The only most effective counter to war birds is another war bird and thats why the Viet Cong invested heavily in the MiGs that gave the F-4s hell -- _______________________________________________ *Without requirements or design, programming is the art of adding bugs to an empty text file.* _______________________________________________ * *
The F-15 story has not been confirmed. http://intelligencebriefs.com is only full of rumours. Rumours are guan! Wait for the official account fron KDF -- _______________________________________________ *Without requirements or design, programming is the art of adding bugs to an empty text file.* _______________________________________________ * *
Yeah lets wait for the official reports. Thanks and regards, Ian On 19 January 2012 10:16, James Nzomo <kazikubwa@gmail.com> wrote:
The F-15 story has not been confirmed. http://intelligencebriefs.com is only full of rumours. Rumours are guan! Wait for the official account fron KDF
--
_______________________________________________
*Without requirements or design, programming is the art of adding bugs to an empty text file.* _______________________________________________ *
* _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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Random question, what's the superiority of our navy? Are we operating relics ama we are not badly off? Thanks and regards, Ian On 19 January 2012 10:25, Ian Macharia <machaian@gmail.com> wrote:
Yeah lets wait for the official reports.
Thanks and regards,
Ian
On 19 January 2012 10:16, James Nzomo <kazikubwa@gmail.com> wrote:
The F-15 story has not been confirmed. http://intelligencebriefs.com is only full of rumours. Rumours are guan! Wait for the official account fron KDF
--
_______________________________________________
*Without requirements or design, programming is the art of adding bugs to an empty text file.* _______________________________________________ *
* _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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We are not badly off. But apparently there is a beautiful battle ship called the KNS Jasri tied up in spain. Pics are on the web. The arsenal is adequate given the current threats No carriers tho ;) 2012/1/19, Ian Macharia <machaian@gmail.com>:
Random question, what's the superiority of our navy? Are we operating relics ama we are not badly off?
Thanks and regards,
Ian
On 19 January 2012 10:25, Ian Macharia <machaian@gmail.com> wrote:
Yeah lets wait for the official reports.
Thanks and regards,
Ian
On 19 January 2012 10:16, James Nzomo <kazikubwa@gmail.com> wrote:
The F-15 story has not been confirmed. http://intelligencebriefs.com is only full of rumours. Rumours are guan! Wait for the official account fron KDF
--
_______________________________________________
*Without requirements or design, programming is the art of adding bugs to an empty text file.* _______________________________________________ *
* _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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-- _______________________________________________ *Without requirements or design, programming is the art of adding bugs to an empty text file.* _______________________________________________ * *
We should get some F-22 , The SUs would not have much chance.. Thanks and regards, Ian On 18 January 2012 16:37, Vincent Kiama <vinikiama@gmail.com> wrote:
People say that the SUs' are better than the F-16s,F-18s. But what if Kenya decides to talk to the chinese for their fighter planes? _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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participants (11)
-
aki -
Brian L -
Ephraim Muchemi -
Ian Macharia -
James Nzomo -
Juggy Boy -
Odhiambo Washington -
Peter Osotsi -
Rad! -
Simon Mbuthia -
Vincent Kiama