Hi Skunks, Something has been bothering me for some time now on this list. I know many skunks have set up IT businesses and consultancy in areas such as web-design, networks, VOIP, software development, support, FOSS implementation and maintenance etc. Lawyers, doctors, civil engineers, realtors, quantity surveyors and plumbers have also registered their businesses. The one major difference between the techies and the later group is that we tend to offer our knowledge, skills and consultancy for free on public forums such as Skunkworks. There is a fine thick line between offering a fellow techie help when stuck and streaming really premium information to non-techies and thus denying professionals their right earning. Those of you who have engaged lawyers, realtors and plumbers recently can attest that nothing is free from the outset. While you may have a day job, there are fellow techies who hassle with start-ups and can offer these services at a fee. I believe the better approach is to refer such questions to IT companies we know who offer the service/product in question. Come on guys, the techies need to pay bills, tax and put food on the table. I've got lawyer friends who cannot copy-paste that company incorporation document for free claiming LSK does not allow them to offer free service (my foot). On the other hand, techies would helpfully volunteer information on how to google, download and customise IT Policy without asking for a cent. Very soon, IT lawyers (they exist, by the way) will start "developing" IT Policy at a fee as IT professionals watch. I think we are our worst enemies and we invite quarks with money to easily set up and run IT businesses at our expense. In the end it helps no one. Not the industry and its growth in competence, professionalism and respect. Not the people we think we are helping and not ourselves. And we ask why we are treated with disdain in office. Look at the mirror. Just my opinion. Don't lynch me. Maybe it's just me but am I so off the rail?
From my experience running a business between 2003 and today, clients find NO value in any consultancy the get for free. Secondly and even worse they'll never find value in you as a consultant, and will squeeze you for every penny you have for the same fee NOTHING.
Think about it this way would PWC of Delloitte offer ANY service free of charge? Hope this helps. Kiania D On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 10:50 PM, Net Caster <madungu@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Skunks, Something has been bothering me for some time now on this list. I know many skunks have set up IT businesses and consultancy in areas such as web-design, networks, VOIP, software development, support, FOSS implementation and maintenance etc. Lawyers, doctors, civil engineers, realtors, quantity surveyors and plumbers have also registered their businesses. The one major difference between the techies and the later group is that we tend to offer our knowledge, skills and consultancy for free on public forums such as Skunkworks. There is a fine thick line between offering a fellow techie help when stuck and streaming really premium information to non-techies and thus denying professionals their right earning. Those of you who have engaged lawyers, realtors and plumbers recently can attest that nothing is free from the outset.
While you may have a day job, there are fellow techies who hassle with start-ups and can offer these services at a fee. I believe the better approach is to refer such questions to IT companies we know who offer the service/product in question. Come on guys, the techies need to pay bills, tax and put food on the table.
I've got lawyer friends who cannot copy-paste that company incorporation document for free claiming LSK does not allow them to offer free service (my foot). On the other hand, techies would helpfully volunteer information on how to google, download and customise IT Policy without asking for a cent. Very soon, IT lawyers (they exist, by the way) will start "developing" IT Policy at a fee as IT professionals watch.
I think we are our worst enemies and we invite quarks with money to easily set up and run IT businesses at our expense. In the end it helps no one. Not the industry and its growth in competence, professionalism and respect. Not the people we think we are helping and not ourselves. And we ask why we are treated with disdain in office. Look at the mirror.
Just my opinion. Don't lynch me. Maybe it's just me but am I so off the rail?
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- [Asentric Consulting Ltd] "The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in war." - Navy SEAL INSTRUCTOR
I beg disagree with Net Caster on the issue of assisting techies with advice on issues when they get thick amounts to free service. When a person requests direction on an issue you have some knowledge on, they are not asking you to log in to their server and do configurations for them. I happen to be a beneficiary of online assistance with forums like Linuxquestions. A couple years ago, when I was facing difficulty with Samba, JHT himself pitched in to help me out. The concept of forums for people with same interests, in the same field not only helps participants to grow but also precipitates innovation. Now it is likely that someone improved a system but introduced a concept not so known by all. Also, ICT systems are not flawless and if one is facing difficulty with an issue, it is likely that in a techies forum someone else might have faced the same issue. And giving help is voluntary so if someone is ready to give help, let us not castigate them as diluting our value. Also, remember that IT is one of the youngest industries in the world put alongside law, engineering, medicine, architecture among others. Even in those fields, when they were starting they had to exchange a lot of information that today they would deem so valuable. So share information and assist where you can, appreciation for your services might stem from the unlikeliest of sources. Regards, M. Mugo On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 11:06 PM, David Kiania | Asentric Consulting Ltd < kianiadee@gmail.com> wrote:
From my experience running a business between 2003 and today, clients find NO value in any consultancy the get for free. Secondly and even worse they'll never find value in you as a consultant, and will squeeze you for every penny you have for the same fee NOTHING.
Think about it this way would PWC of Delloitte offer ANY service free of charge?
Hope this helps.
Kiania D
On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 10:50 PM, Net Caster <madungu@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Skunks, Something has been bothering me for some time now on this list. I know many skunks have set up IT businesses and consultancy in areas such as web-design, networks, VOIP, software development, support, FOSS implementation and maintenance etc. Lawyers, doctors, civil engineers, realtors, quantity surveyors and plumbers have also registered their businesses. The one major difference between the techies and the later group is that we tend to offer our knowledge, skills and consultancy for free on public forums such as Skunkworks. There is a fine thick line between offering a fellow techie help when stuck and streaming really premium information to non-techies and thus denying professionals their right earning. Those of you who have engaged lawyers, realtors and plumbers recently can attest that nothing is free from the outset.
While you may have a day job, there are fellow techies who hassle with start-ups and can offer these services at a fee. I believe the better approach is to refer such questions to IT companies we know who offer the service/product in question. Come on guys, the techies need to pay bills, tax and put food on the table.
I've got lawyer friends who cannot copy-paste that company incorporation document for free claiming LSK does not allow them to offer free service (my foot). On the other hand, techies would helpfully volunteer information on how to google, download and customise IT Policy without asking for a cent. Very soon, IT lawyers (they exist, by the way) will start "developing" IT Policy at a fee as IT professionals watch.
I think we are our worst enemies and we invite quarks with money to easily set up and run IT businesses at our expense. In the end it helps no one. Not the industry and its growth in competence, professionalism and respect. Not the people we think we are helping and not ourselves. And we ask why we are treated with disdain in office. Look at the mirror.
Just my opinion. Don't lynch me. Maybe it's just me but am I so off the rail?
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
--
[Asentric Consulting Ltd]
"The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in war." - Navy SEAL INSTRUCTOR _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
I could respond comprehensively but allow me first to send you the invoice. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Net Caster <madungu@gmail.com> Sender: skunkworks-bounces@lists.my.co.ke Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 22:50:02 To: <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Reply-To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Subject: [Skunkworks] IS TECHNICAL CONSULTANCY FREE? _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://orion.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
I agree with David.I have been in consultancy for the last 4 years,the first rule of consultancy never offer any service for free because it will only beget more free service. On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 4:18 AM, <muteti@gmail.com> wrote:
I could respond comprehensively but allow me first to send you the invoice.
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Net Caster <madungu@gmail.com> Sender: skunkworks-bounces@lists.my.co.ke Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 22:50:02 To: <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Reply-To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Subject: [Skunkworks] IS TECHNICAL CONSULTANCY FREE?
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
im also a worried man , i worked with a certain govt body as IT support for sometime, when i got out some guys who were my bosses still call me claiming their personal computer needs formatting , whether i have an antivirus, all this crap and they rarely pay a penny just because they were my bosses by then. there should be a limit .making a call to ask for help is okay for me but bringing your laptop to update your antivirus is too much -for free!! On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 10:50 PM, Net Caster <madungu@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Skunks, Something has been bothering me for some time now on this list. I know many skunks have set up IT businesses and consultancy in areas such as web-design, networks, VOIP, software development, support, FOSS implementation and maintenance etc. Lawyers, doctors, civil engineers, realtors, quantity surveyors and plumbers have also registered their businesses. The one major difference between the techies and the later group is that we tend to offer our knowledge, skills and consultancy for free on public forums such as Skunkworks. There is a fine thick line between offering a fellow techie help when stuck and streaming really premium information to non-techies and thus denying professionals their right earning. Those of you who have engaged lawyers, realtors and plumbers recently can attest that nothing is free from the outset.
While you may have a day job, there are fellow techies who hassle with start-ups and can offer these services at a fee. I believe the better approach is to refer such questions to IT companies we know who offer the service/product in question. Come on guys, the techies need to pay bills, tax and put food on the table.
I've got lawyer friends who cannot copy-paste that company incorporation document for free claiming LSK does not allow them to offer free service (my foot). On the other hand, techies would helpfully volunteer information on how to google, download and customise IT Policy without asking for a cent. Very soon, IT lawyers (they exist, by the way) will start "developing" IT Policy at a fee as IT professionals watch.
I think we are our worst enemies and we invite quarks with money to easily set up and run IT businesses at our expense. In the end it helps no one. Not the industry and its growth in competence, professionalism and respect. Not the people we think we are helping and not ourselves. And we ask why we are treated with disdain in office. Look at the mirror.
Just my opinion. Don't lynch me. Maybe it's just me but am I so off the rail?
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Justus +254 724 46 55 99
http://skunkworks-ke.tumblr.com/post/4715250243/screw-you-pay-me-how-to-nego... Very interesting video I came across on the subject.... On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 8:14 AM, justus <mutahijustus@gmail.com> wrote:
im also a worried man , i worked with a certain govt body as IT support for sometime, when i got out some guys who were my bosses still call me claiming their personal computer needs formatting , whether i have an antivirus, all this crap and they rarely pay a penny just because they were my bosses by then. there should be a limit .making a call to ask for help is okay for me but bringing your laptop to update your antivirus is too much -for free!!
On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 10:50 PM, Net Caster <madungu@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Skunks, Something has been bothering me for some time now on this list. I know many skunks have set up IT businesses and consultancy in areas such as web-design, networks, VOIP, software development, support, FOSS implementation and maintenance etc. Lawyers, doctors, civil engineers, realtors, quantity surveyors and plumbers have also registered their businesses. The one major difference between the techies and the later group is that we tend to offer our knowledge, skills and consultancy for free on public forums such as Skunkworks. There is a fine thick line between offering a fellow techie help when stuck and streaming really premium information to non-techies and thus denying professionals their right earning. Those of you who have engaged lawyers, realtors and plumbers recently can attest that nothing is free from the outset.
While you may have a day job, there are fellow techies who hassle with start-ups and can offer these services at a fee. I believe the better approach is to refer such questions to IT companies we know who offer the service/product in question. Come on guys, the techies need to pay bills, tax and put food on the table.
I've got lawyer friends who cannot copy-paste that company incorporation document for free claiming LSK does not allow them to offer free service (my foot). On the other hand, techies would helpfully volunteer information on how to google, download and customise IT Policy without asking for a cent. Very soon, IT lawyers (they exist, by the way) will start "developing" IT Policy at a fee as IT professionals watch.
I think we are our worst enemies and we invite quarks with money to easily set up and run IT businesses at our expense. In the end it helps no one. Not the industry and its growth in competence, professionalism and respect. Not the people we think we are helping and not ourselves. And we ask why we are treated with disdain in office. Look at the mirror.
Just my opinion. Don't lynch me. Maybe it's just me but am I so off the rail?
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Justus +254 724 46 55 99
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- With Regards, Phares Kariuki | T: +254 720 406 093 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares | B: http://www.kaboro.com/ |
The Law and Accounting are today just what they were a hundred years ago - save for a higher pile of case files. IT on the other hand is many light years ahead because of the sharing culture. I'd say, that the other professions have a lot to learn from us. A whole lot. On 13 June 2011 08:43, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
http://skunkworks-ke.tumblr.com/post/4715250243/screw-you-pay-me-how-to-nego...
Very interesting video I came across on the subject....
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 8:14 AM, justus <mutahijustus@gmail.com> wrote:
im also a worried man , i worked with a certain govt body as IT support for sometime, when i got out some guys who were my bosses still call me claiming their personal computer needs formatting , whether i have an antivirus, all this crap and they rarely pay a penny just because they were my bosses by then. there should be a limit .making a call to ask for help is okay for me but bringing your laptop to update your antivirus is too much -for free!!
On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 10:50 PM, Net Caster <madungu@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Skunks, Something has been bothering me for some time now on this list. I know many skunks have set up IT businesses and consultancy in areas such as web-design, networks, VOIP, software development, support, FOSS implementation and maintenance etc. Lawyers, doctors, civil engineers, realtors, quantity surveyors and plumbers have also registered their businesses. The one major difference between the techies and the later group is that we tend to offer our knowledge, skills and consultancy for free on public forums such as Skunkworks. There is a fine thick line between offering a fellow techie help when stuck and streaming really premium information to non-techies and thus denying professionals their right earning. Those of you who have engaged lawyers, realtors and plumbers recently can attest that nothing is free from the outset.
While you may have a day job, there are fellow techies who hassle with start-ups and can offer these services at a fee. I believe the better approach is to refer such questions to IT companies we know who offer the service/product in question. Come on guys, the techies need to pay bills, tax and put food on the table.
I've got lawyer friends who cannot copy-paste that company incorporation document for free claiming LSK does not allow them to offer free service (my foot). On the other hand, techies would helpfully volunteer information on how to google, download and customise IT Policy without asking for a cent. Very soon, IT lawyers (they exist, by the way) will start "developing" IT Policy at a fee as IT professionals watch.
I think we are our worst enemies and we invite quarks with money to easily set up and run IT businesses at our expense. In the end it helps no one. Not the industry and its growth in competence, professionalism and respect. Not the people we think we are helping and not ourselves. And we ask why we are treated with disdain in office. Look at the mirror.
Just my opinion. Don't lynch me. Maybe it's just me but am I so off the rail?
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Justus +254 724 46 55 99
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- With Regards,
Phares Kariuki
| T: +254 720 406 093 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares | B: http://www.kaboro.com/ |
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
IT has been there for ages my friend what they called smoke signals then we call wireless communication today ;-) I think we are to blame to 'devaluing' our profession, we need to stand our ground and earn the same respect as Law, IT, Finance you name it. My thoughts Kiania D. On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 9:37 AM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote:
The Law and Accounting are today just what they were a hundred years ago - save for a higher pile of case files. IT on the other hand is many light years ahead because of the sharing culture. I'd say, that the other professions have a lot to learn from us. A whole lot. On 13 June 2011 08:43, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
http://skunkworks-ke.tumblr.com/post/4715250243/screw-you-pay-me-how-to-nego...
Very interesting video I came across on the subject....
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 8:14 AM, justus <mutahijustus@gmail.com> wrote:
im also a worried man , i worked with a certain govt body as IT support for sometime, when i got out some guys who were my bosses still call me claiming their personal computer needs formatting , whether i have an antivirus, all this crap and they rarely pay a penny just because they were my bosses by then. there should be a limit .making a call to ask for help is okay for me but bringing your laptop to update your antivirus is too much -for free!!
On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 10:50 PM, Net Caster <madungu@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Skunks, Something has been bothering me for some time now on this list. I know many skunks have set up IT businesses and consultancy in areas such as web-design, networks, VOIP, software development, support, FOSS implementation and maintenance etc. Lawyers, doctors, civil engineers, realtors, quantity surveyors and plumbers have also registered their businesses. The one major difference between the techies and the later group is that we tend to offer our knowledge, skills and consultancy for free on public forums such as Skunkworks. There is a fine thick line between offering a fellow techie help when stuck and streaming really premium information to non-techies and thus denying professionals their right earning. Those of you who have engaged lawyers, realtors and plumbers recently can attest that nothing is free from the outset.
While you may have a day job, there are fellow techies who hassle with start-ups and can offer these services at a fee. I believe the better approach is to refer such questions to IT companies we know who offer the service/product in question. Come on guys, the techies need to pay bills, tax and put food on the table.
I've got lawyer friends who cannot copy-paste that company incorporation document for free claiming LSK does not allow them to offer free service (my foot). On the other hand, techies would helpfully volunteer information on how to google, download and customise IT Policy without asking for a cent. Very soon, IT lawyers (they exist, by the way) will start "developing" IT Policy at a fee as IT professionals watch.
I think we are our worst enemies and we invite quarks with money to easily set up and run IT businesses at our expense. In the end it helps no one. Not the industry and its growth in competence, professionalism and respect. Not the people we think we are helping and not ourselves. And we ask why we are treated with disdain in office. Look at the mirror.
Just my opinion. Don't lynch me. Maybe it's just me but am I so off the rail?
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Justus +254 724 46 55 99
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- With Regards,
Phares Kariuki
| T: +254 720 406 093 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares | B: http://www.kaboro.com/ |
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- [Asentric Consulting Ltd] "The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in war." - Navy SEAL INSTRUCTOR
Let me put it another way : Would we prefer many more dollar$ over faster innovative progress ? Clearly, the legal profession is stagnated because there's a fee note for everything, and maybe soon, even for mundane greetings. On 13 June 2011 10:09, David Kiania | Asentric Consulting Ltd < kianiadee@gmail.com> wrote:
IT has been there for ages my friend what they called smoke signals then we call wireless communication today ;-)
I think we are to blame to 'devaluing' our profession, we need to stand our ground and earn the same respect as Law, IT, Finance you name it.
My thoughts
Kiania D.
The Law and Accounting are today just what they were a hundred years ago
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 9:37 AM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote: -
save for a higher pile of case files. IT on the other hand is many light years ahead because of the sharing culture. I'd say, that the other professions have a lot to learn from us. A whole lot. On 13 June 2011 08:43, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
http://skunkworks-ke.tumblr.com/post/4715250243/screw-you-pay-me-how-to-nego...
Very interesting video I came across on the subject....
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 8:14 AM, justus <mutahijustus@gmail.com> wrote:
im also a worried man , i worked with a certain govt body as IT support for sometime, when i got out some guys who were my bosses still call me claiming their personal computer needs formatting , whether i have an antivirus, all this crap and they rarely pay a penny just because they
were
my bosses by then. there should be a limit .making a call to ask for help is okay for me but bringing your laptop to update your antivirus is too much -for free!!
On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 10:50 PM, Net Caster <madungu@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Skunks, Something has been bothering me for some time now on this list. I know many skunks have set up IT businesses and consultancy in areas such as web-design, networks, VOIP, software development, support, FOSS implementation and maintenance etc. Lawyers, doctors, civil engineers, realtors, quantity surveyors and plumbers have also registered their businesses. The one major difference between the techies and the later
group
is that we tend to offer our knowledge, skills and consultancy for free on public forums such as Skunkworks. There is a fine thick line between offering a fellow techie help when stuck and streaming really premium information to non-techies and thus denying professionals their right earning. Those of you who have engaged lawyers, realtors and plumbers recently can attest that nothing is free from the outset.
While you may have a day job, there are fellow techies who hassle with start-ups and can offer these services at a fee. I believe the better approach is to refer such questions to IT companies we know who offer the service/product in question. Come on guys, the techies need to pay bills, tax and put food on the table.
I've got lawyer friends who cannot copy-paste that company incorporation document for free claiming LSK does not allow them to offer free service (my foot). On the other hand, techies would helpfully volunteer information on how to google, download and customise IT Policy without asking for a cent. Very soon, IT lawyers (they exist, by the way) will start "developing" IT Policy at a fee as IT professionals watch.
I think we are our worst enemies and we invite quarks with money to easily set up and run IT businesses at our expense. In the end it helps no one. Not the industry and its growth in competence, professionalism and respect. Not the people we think we are helping and not ourselves. And we ask why we are treated with disdain in office. Look at the mirror.
Just my opinion. Don't lynch me. Maybe it's just me but am I so off the rail?
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Justus +254 724 46 55 99
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- With Regards,
Phares Kariuki
| T: +254 720 406 093 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares | B: http://www.kaboro.com/ |
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
--
[Asentric Consulting Ltd]
"The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in war." - Navy SEAL INSTRUCTOR _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
It's granted that with every visit to the lawyer/doctor you'll have to pay and depending on the experience and the issue at hand you cough through the nose. Why should it be any different for Technology why should we see it as any less? Secondly is there any guarantee that after the free consultation, business will flow and they all of a sudden willing to pay top dollar for quality service? Kiania D On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 10:16 AM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote:
Let me put it another way : Would we prefer many more dollar$ over faster innovative progress ? Clearly, the legal profession is stagnated because there's a fee note for everything, and maybe soon, even for mundane greetings.
On 13 June 2011 10:09, David Kiania | Asentric Consulting Ltd <kianiadee@gmail.com> wrote:
IT has been there for ages my friend what they called smoke signals then we call wireless communication today ;-)
I think we are to blame to 'devaluing' our profession, we need to stand our ground and earn the same respect as Law, IT, Finance you name it.
My thoughts
Kiania D.
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 9:37 AM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote:
The Law and Accounting are today just what they were a hundred years ago - save for a higher pile of case files. IT on the other hand is many light years ahead because of the sharing culture. I'd say, that the other professions have a lot to learn from us. A whole lot. On 13 June 2011 08:43, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
http://skunkworks-ke.tumblr.com/post/4715250243/screw-you-pay-me-how-to-nego...
Very interesting video I came across on the subject....
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 8:14 AM, justus <mutahijustus@gmail.com> wrote:
im also a worried man , i worked with a certain govt body as IT support for sometime, when i got out some guys who were my bosses still call me claiming their personal computer needs formatting , whether i have an antivirus, all this crap and they rarely pay a penny just because they were my bosses by then. there should be a limit .making a call to ask for help is okay for me but bringing your laptop to update your antivirus is too much -for free!!
On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 10:50 PM, Net Caster <madungu@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Skunks, Something has been bothering me for some time now on this list. I know many skunks have set up IT businesses and consultancy in areas such as web-design, networks, VOIP, software development, support, FOSS implementation and maintenance etc. Lawyers, doctors, civil engineers, realtors, quantity surveyors and plumbers have also registered their businesses. The one major difference between the techies and the later group is that we tend to offer our knowledge, skills and consultancy for free on public forums such as Skunkworks. There is a fine thick line between offering a fellow techie help when stuck and streaming really premium information to non-techies and thus denying professionals their right earning. Those of you who have engaged lawyers, realtors and plumbers recently can attest that nothing is free from the outset.
While you may have a day job, there are fellow techies who hassle with start-ups and can offer these services at a fee. I believe the better approach is to refer such questions to IT companies we know who offer the service/product in question. Come on guys, the techies need to pay bills, tax and put food on the table.
I've got lawyer friends who cannot copy-paste that company incorporation document for free claiming LSK does not allow them to offer free service (my foot). On the other hand, techies would helpfully volunteer information on how to google, download and customise IT Policy without asking for a cent. Very soon, IT lawyers (they exist, by the way) will start "developing" IT Policy at a fee as IT professionals watch.
I think we are our worst enemies and we invite quarks with money to easily set up and run IT businesses at our expense. In the end it helps no one. Not the industry and its growth in competence, professionalism and respect. Not the people we think we are helping and not ourselves. And we ask why we are treated with disdain in office. Look at the mirror.
Just my opinion. Don't lynch me. Maybe it's just me but am I so off the rail?
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Justus +254 724 46 55 99
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- With Regards,
Phares Kariuki
| T: +254 720 406 093 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares | B: http://www.kaboro.com/ |
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
--
[Asentric Consulting Ltd]
"The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in war." - Navy SEAL INSTRUCTOR _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- [Asentric Consulting Ltd] "The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in war." - Navy SEAL INSTRUCTOR
Doctors/Medics do offer a number of free medical camps surgeries e.t.c. Regards Edward Mayaka On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 10:46 AM, David Kiania | Asentric Consulting Ltd < kianiadee@gmail.com> wrote:
It's granted that with every visit to the lawyer/doctor you'll have to pay and depending on the experience and the issue at hand you cough through the nose. Why should it be any different for Technology why should we see it as any less?
Secondly is there any guarantee that after the free consultation, business will flow and they all of a sudden willing to pay top dollar for quality service?
Kiania D
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 10:16 AM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote:
Let me put it another way : Would we prefer many more dollar$ over faster innovative progress ? Clearly, the legal profession is stagnated because there's a fee note for everything, and maybe soon, even for mundane greetings.
On 13 June 2011 10:09, David Kiania | Asentric Consulting Ltd <kianiadee@gmail.com> wrote:
IT has been there for ages my friend what they called smoke signals then we call wireless communication today ;-)
I think we are to blame to 'devaluing' our profession, we need to stand our ground and earn the same respect as Law, IT, Finance you name it.
My thoughts
Kiania D.
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 9:37 AM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote:
The Law and Accounting are today just what they were a hundred years
ago
- save for a higher pile of case files. IT on the other hand is many light years ahead because of the sharing culture. I'd say, that the other professions have a lot to learn from us. A whole lot. On 13 June 2011 08:43, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
http://skunkworks-ke.tumblr.com/post/4715250243/screw-you-pay-me-how-to-nego...
Very interesting video I came across on the subject....
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 8:14 AM, justus <mutahijustus@gmail.com>
wrote:
im also a worried man , i worked with a certain govt body as IT support for sometime, when i got out some guys who were my bosses still call me claiming their personal computer needs formatting , whether i have
an
antivirus, all this crap and they rarely pay a penny just because they were my bosses by then. there should be a limit .making a call to ask for help is okay for me but bringing your laptop to update your antivirus is too much -for free!!
On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 10:50 PM, Net Caster <madungu@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Skunks, > Something has been bothering me for some time now on this list. I > know > many skunks have set up IT businesses and consultancy in areas such > as > web-design, networks, VOIP, software development, support, FOSS > implementation and maintenance etc. Lawyers, doctors, civil > engineers, > realtors, quantity surveyors and plumbers have also registered their > businesses. The one major difference between the techies and the > later group > is that we tend to offer our knowledge, skills and consultancy for > free on > public forums such as Skunkworks. There is a fine thick line between > offering a fellow techie help when stuck and streaming really premium > information to non-techies and thus denying professionals their right > earning. Those of you who have engaged lawyers, realtors and plumbers > recently can attest that nothing is free from the outset. > > While you may have a day job, there are fellow techies who hassle > with > start-ups and can offer these services at a fee. I believe the better > approach is to refer such questions to IT companies we know who offer > the > service/product in question. Come on guys, the techies need to pay > bills, > tax and put food on the table. > > I've got lawyer friends who cannot copy-paste that company > incorporation > document for free claiming LSK does not allow them to offer free > service (my > foot). On the other hand, techies would helpfully volunteer > information on > how to google, download and customise IT Policy without asking for a > cent. > Very soon, IT lawyers (they exist, by the way) will start > "developing" IT > Policy at a fee as IT professionals watch. > > I think we are our worst enemies and we invite quarks with money to > easily set up and run IT businesses at our expense. In the end it > helps no > one. Not the industry and its growth in competence, professionalism > and > respect. Not the people we think we are helping and not ourselves. > And we > ask why we are treated with disdain in office. Look at the mirror. > > Just my opinion. Don't lynch me. Maybe it's just me but am I so off > the > rail? > > _______________________________________________ > Skunkworks mailing list > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Justus +254 724 46 55 99
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- With Regards,
Phares Kariuki
| T: +254 720 406 093 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares | B: http://www.kaboro.com/ |
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
--
[Asentric Consulting Ltd]
"The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in war." - Navy SEAL INSTRUCTOR _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
--
[Asentric Consulting Ltd]
"The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in war." - Navy SEAL INSTRUCTOR _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
Interesting discussion. Some stuff could be offered for free (e.g. what's the difference between SSH and Telnet) while other stuff could be done as a consultancy... e.g. Please secure my server now that you have explained to me that Telnet is insecure (vs SSH). Conceivably, one could gain business by offering some free advice first. Just a rudimentary example though :) -- Josiah Mugambi On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 10:46 AM, David Kiania | Asentric Consulting Ltd < kianiadee@gmail.com> wrote:
It's granted that with every visit to the lawyer/doctor you'll have to pay and depending on the experience and the issue at hand you cough through the nose. Why should it be any different for Technology why should we see it as any less?
Secondly is there any guarantee that after the free consultation, business will flow and they all of a sudden willing to pay top dollar for quality service?
Kiania D
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 10:16 AM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote:
Let me put it another way : Would we prefer many more dollar$ over faster innovative progress ? Clearly, the legal profession is stagnated because there's a fee note for everything, and maybe soon, even for mundane greetings.
On 13 June 2011 10:09, David Kiania | Asentric Consulting Ltd <kianiadee@gmail.com> wrote:
IT has been there for ages my friend what they called smoke signals then we call wireless communication today ;-)
I think we are to blame to 'devaluing' our profession, we need to stand our ground and earn the same respect as Law, IT, Finance you name it.
My thoughts
Kiania D.
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 9:37 AM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote:
The Law and Accounting are today just what they were a hundred years
ago
- save for a higher pile of case files. IT on the other hand is many light years ahead because of the sharing culture. I'd say, that the other professions have a lot to learn from us. A whole lot. On 13 June 2011 08:43, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
http://skunkworks-ke.tumblr.com/post/4715250243/screw-you-pay-me-how-to-nego...
Very interesting video I came across on the subject....
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 8:14 AM, justus <mutahijustus@gmail.com>
wrote:
im also a worried man , i worked with a certain govt body as IT support for sometime, when i got out some guys who were my bosses still call me claiming their personal computer needs formatting , whether i have
an
antivirus, all this crap and they rarely pay a penny just because they were my bosses by then. there should be a limit .making a call to ask for help is okay for me but bringing your laptop to update your antivirus is too much -for free!!
On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 10:50 PM, Net Caster <madungu@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Skunks, > Something has been bothering me for some time now on this list. I > know > many skunks have set up IT businesses and consultancy in areas such > as > web-design, networks, VOIP, software development, support, FOSS > implementation and maintenance etc. Lawyers, doctors, civil > engineers, > realtors, quantity surveyors and plumbers have also registered their > businesses. The one major difference between the techies and the > later group > is that we tend to offer our knowledge, skills and consultancy for > free on > public forums such as Skunkworks. There is a fine thick line between > offering a fellow techie help when stuck and streaming really premium > information to non-techies and thus denying professionals their right > earning. Those of you who have engaged lawyers, realtors and plumbers > recently can attest that nothing is free from the outset. > > While you may have a day job, there are fellow techies who hassle > with > start-ups and can offer these services at a fee. I believe the better > approach is to refer such questions to IT companies we know who offer > the > service/product in question. Come on guys, the techies need to pay > bills, > tax and put food on the table. > > I've got lawyer friends who cannot copy-paste that company > incorporation > document for free claiming LSK does not allow them to offer free > service (my > foot). On the other hand, techies would helpfully volunteer > information on > how to google, download and customise IT Policy without asking for a > cent. > Very soon, IT lawyers (they exist, by the way) will start > "developing" IT > Policy at a fee as IT professionals watch. > > I think we are our worst enemies and we invite quarks with money to > easily set up and run IT businesses at our expense. In the end it > helps no > one. Not the industry and its growth in competence, professionalism > and > respect. Not the people we think we are helping and not ourselves. > And we > ask why we are treated with disdain in office. Look at the mirror. > > Just my opinion. Don't lynch me. Maybe it's just me but am I so off > the > rail? > > _______________________________________________ > Skunkworks mailing list > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Justus +254 724 46 55 99
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- With Regards,
Phares Kariuki
| T: +254 720 406 093 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares | B: http://www.kaboro.com/ |
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
--
[Asentric Consulting Ltd]
"The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in war." - Navy SEAL INSTRUCTOR _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
--
[Asentric Consulting Ltd]
"The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in war." - Navy SEAL INSTRUCTOR _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
By thinking about money first, I think we miss an important point. If IT professionals conversed with the world in fee-notes, we'd still be offering smoke-signal solutions! Am not saying that we go to the logical extreme and give it away for free - am just saying that we avoid the other extreme that most of the aforementioned professions are knee-deep in. On 13 June 2011 11:00, Josiah Mugambi <jmugambi@gmail.com> wrote:
Interesting discussion.
Some stuff could be offered for free (e.g. what's the difference between SSH and Telnet) while other stuff could be done as a consultancy... e.g. Please secure my server now that you have explained to me that Telnet is insecure (vs SSH). Conceivably, one could gain business by offering some free advice first.
Just a rudimentary example though :)
-- Josiah Mugambi
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 10:46 AM, David Kiania | Asentric Consulting Ltd < kianiadee@gmail.com> wrote:
It's granted that with every visit to the lawyer/doctor you'll have to pay and depending on the experience and the issue at hand you cough through the nose. Why should it be any different for Technology why should we see it as any less?
Secondly is there any guarantee that after the free consultation, business will flow and they all of a sudden willing to pay top dollar for quality service?
Kiania D
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 10:16 AM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote:
Let me put it another way : Would we prefer many more dollar$ over faster innovative progress ? Clearly, the legal profession is stagnated because there's a fee note for everything, and maybe soon, even for mundane greetings.
On 13 June 2011 10:09, David Kiania | Asentric Consulting Ltd <kianiadee@gmail.com> wrote:
IT has been there for ages my friend what they called smoke signals then we call wireless communication today ;-)
I think we are to blame to 'devaluing' our profession, we need to stand our ground and earn the same respect as Law, IT, Finance you name it.
My thoughts
Kiania D.
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 9:37 AM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com>
wrote:
The Law and Accounting are today just what they were a hundred years ago - save for a higher pile of case files. IT on the other hand is many light years ahead because of the sharing culture. I'd say, that the other professions have a lot to learn from us. A whole lot. On 13 June 2011 08:43, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
http://skunkworks-ke.tumblr.com/post/4715250243/screw-you-pay-me-how-to-nego...
Very interesting video I came across on the subject....
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 8:14 AM, justus <mutahijustus@gmail.com>
wrote:
> > im also a worried man , i worked with a certain govt body as IT > support > for sometime, when i got out some guys who were my bosses still call > me > claiming their personal computer needs formatting , whether i have an > antivirus, all this crap and they rarely pay a penny just because they > were > my bosses by then. there should be a limit .making a call to ask for > help is > okay for me but bringing your laptop to update your antivirus is too > much > -for free!! > > On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 10:50 PM, Net Caster <madungu@gmail.com> > wrote: >> >> Hi Skunks, >> Something has been bothering me for some time now on this list. I >> know >> many skunks have set up IT businesses and consultancy in areas such >> as >> web-design, networks, VOIP, software development, support, FOSS >> implementation and maintenance etc. Lawyers, doctors, civil >> engineers, >> realtors, quantity surveyors and plumbers have also registered their >> businesses. The one major difference between the techies and the >> later group >> is that we tend to offer our knowledge, skills and consultancy for >> free on >> public forums such as Skunkworks. There is a fine thick line between >> offering a fellow techie help when stuck and streaming really premium >> information to non-techies and thus denying professionals their right >> earning. Those of you who have engaged lawyers, realtors and plumbers >> recently can attest that nothing is free from the outset. >> >> While you may have a day job, there are fellow techies who hassle >> with >> start-ups and can offer these services at a fee. I believe the better >> approach is to refer such questions to IT companies we know who offer >> the >> service/product in question. Come on guys, the techies need to pay >> bills, >> tax and put food on the table. >> >> I've got lawyer friends who cannot copy-paste that company >> incorporation >> document for free claiming LSK does not allow them to offer free >> service (my >> foot). On the other hand, techies would helpfully volunteer >> information on >> how to google, download and customise IT Policy without asking for a >> cent. >> Very soon, IT lawyers (they exist, by the way) will start >> "developing" IT >> Policy at a fee as IT professionals watch. >> >> I think we are our worst enemies and we invite quarks with money to >> easily set up and run IT businesses at our expense. In the end it >> helps no >> one. Not the industry and its growth in competence, professionalism >> and >> respect. Not the people we think we are helping and not ourselves. >> And we >> ask why we are treated with disdain in office. Look at the mirror. >> >> Just my opinion. Don't lynch me. Maybe it's just me but am I so off >> the >> rail? >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Skunkworks mailing list >> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >> ------------ >> Skunkworks Rules >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >> ------------ >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke > > > > -- > Justus > +254 724 46 55 99 > > > > _______________________________________________ > Skunkworks mailing list > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- With Regards,
Phares Kariuki
| T: +254 720 406 093 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares | B: http://www.kaboro.com/ |
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
--
[Asentric Consulting Ltd]
"The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in war." - Navy SEAL INSTRUCTOR _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
--
[Asentric Consulting Ltd]
"The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in war." - Navy SEAL INSTRUCTOR _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
For non-profit or money focused initiatives they have a name for that NGOs. Like it or Not money is the only true and objective way to measure skill, effort or capabilities. Btw Doctors volunteering don't give premium services they refer you to their hospitals for further examination. You can give free technical services when you retire for now charge for it .... Kiania D. On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 11:08 AM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote:
By thinking about money first, I think we miss an important point. If IT professionals conversed with the world in fee-notes, we'd still be offering smoke-signal solutions! Am not saying that we go to the logical extreme and give it away for free - am just saying that we avoid the other extreme that most of the aforementioned professions are knee-deep in.
On 13 June 2011 11:00, Josiah Mugambi <jmugambi@gmail.com> wrote:
Interesting discussion.
Some stuff could be offered for free (e.g. what's the difference between SSH and Telnet) while other stuff could be done as a consultancy... e.g. Please secure my server now that you have explained to me that Telnet is insecure (vs SSH). Conceivably, one could gain business by offering some free advice first.
Just a rudimentary example though :)
-- Josiah Mugambi
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 10:46 AM, David Kiania | Asentric Consulting Ltd <kianiadee@gmail.com> wrote:
It's granted that with every visit to the lawyer/doctor you'll have to pay and depending on the experience and the issue at hand you cough through the nose. Why should it be any different for Technology why should we see it as any less?
Secondly is there any guarantee that after the free consultation, business will flow and they all of a sudden willing to pay top dollar for quality service?
Kiania D
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 10:16 AM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote:
Let me put it another way : Would we prefer many more dollar$ over faster innovative progress ? Clearly, the legal profession is stagnated because there's a fee note for everything, and maybe soon, even for mundane greetings.
On 13 June 2011 10:09, David Kiania | Asentric Consulting Ltd <kianiadee@gmail.com> wrote:
IT has been there for ages my friend what they called smoke signals then we call wireless communication today ;-)
I think we are to blame to 'devaluing' our profession, we need to stand our ground and earn the same respect as Law, IT, Finance you name it.
My thoughts
Kiania D.
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 9:37 AM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote:
The Law and Accounting are today just what they were a hundred years ago - save for a higher pile of case files. IT on the other hand is many light years ahead because of the sharing culture. I'd say, that the other professions have a lot to learn from us. A whole lot. On 13 June 2011 08:43, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > http://skunkworks-ke.tumblr.com/post/4715250243/screw-you-pay-me-how-to-nego... > > Very interesting video I came across on the subject.... > > On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 8:14 AM, justus <mutahijustus@gmail.com> > wrote: >> >> im also a worried man , i worked with a certain govt body as IT >> support >> for sometime, when i got out some guys who were my bosses still >> call >> me >> claiming their personal computer needs formatting , whether i >> have an >> antivirus, all this crap and they rarely pay a penny just because >> they >> were >> my bosses by then. there should be a limit .making a call to ask >> for >> help is >> okay for me but bringing your laptop to update your antivirus is >> too >> much >> -for free!! >> >> On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 10:50 PM, Net Caster <madungu@gmail.com> >> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Skunks, >>> Something has been bothering me for some time now on this list. I >>> know >>> many skunks have set up IT businesses and consultancy in areas >>> such >>> as >>> web-design, networks, VOIP, software development, support, FOSS >>> implementation and maintenance etc. Lawyers, doctors, civil >>> engineers, >>> realtors, quantity surveyors and plumbers have also registered >>> their >>> businesses. The one major difference between the techies and the >>> later group >>> is that we tend to offer our knowledge, skills and consultancy >>> for >>> free on >>> public forums such as Skunkworks. There is a fine thick line >>> between >>> offering a fellow techie help when stuck and streaming really >>> premium >>> information to non-techies and thus denying professionals their >>> right >>> earning. Those of you who have engaged lawyers, realtors and >>> plumbers >>> recently can attest that nothing is free from the outset. >>> >>> While you may have a day job, there are fellow techies who hassle >>> with >>> start-ups and can offer these services at a fee. I believe the >>> better >>> approach is to refer such questions to IT companies we know who >>> offer >>> the >>> service/product in question. Come on guys, the techies need to >>> pay >>> bills, >>> tax and put food on the table. >>> >>> I've got lawyer friends who cannot copy-paste that company >>> incorporation >>> document for free claiming LSK does not allow them to offer free >>> service (my >>> foot). On the other hand, techies would helpfully volunteer >>> information on >>> how to google, download and customise IT Policy without asking >>> for a >>> cent. >>> Very soon, IT lawyers (they exist, by the way) will start >>> "developing" IT >>> Policy at a fee as IT professionals watch. >>> >>> I think we are our worst enemies and we invite quarks with money >>> to >>> easily set up and run IT businesses at our expense. In the end it >>> helps no >>> one. Not the industry and its growth in competence, >>> professionalism >>> and >>> respect. Not the people we think we are helping and not >>> ourselves. >>> And we >>> ask why we are treated with disdain in office. Look at the >>> mirror. >>> >>> Just my opinion. Don't lynch me. Maybe it's just me but am I so >>> off >>> the >>> rail? >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Skunkworks mailing list >>> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>> ------------ >>> Skunkworks Rules >>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>> ------------ >>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >> >> >> >> -- >> Justus >> +254 724 46 55 99 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Skunkworks mailing list >> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >> ------------ >> Skunkworks Rules >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >> ------------ >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke > > > > -- > With Regards, > > Phares Kariuki > > | T: +254 720 406 093 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | > Skype: > kariukiphares | B: http://www.kaboro.com/ | > > _______________________________________________ > Skunkworks mailing list > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke
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[Asentric Consulting Ltd]
"The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in war." - Navy SEAL INSTRUCTOR _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
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--
[Asentric Consulting Ltd]
"The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in war." - Navy SEAL INSTRUCTOR _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
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-- [Asentric Consulting Ltd] "The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in war." - Navy SEAL INSTRUCTOR
The problem with techies has always been practicing their trade anywhere, everywhere, anytime.......e.g. catching a pint at your locals with a pal who has a problem with his laptop - fix it there at that time. Random family members dropping in at your digz with all manner of IT problems which you treat immediately before your early morning tea. Lets face it people will not pay professional fees for work that is done anytime and anywhere ---- its NOT professional. -----Original Message----- From: skunkworks-bounces@lists.my.co.ke [mailto:skunkworks-bounces@lists.my.co.ke] On Behalf Of David Kiania | Asentric Consulting Ltd Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 11:16 AM To: Skunkworks Mailing List Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] IS TECHNICAL CONSULTANCY FREE? For non-profit or money focused initiatives they have a name for that NGOs. Like it or Not money is the only true and objective way to measure skill, effort or capabilities. Btw Doctors volunteering don't give premium services they refer you to their hospitals for further examination. You can give free technical services when you retire for now charge for it .... Kiania D. On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 11:08 AM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote:
By thinking about money first, I think we miss an important point. If IT professionals conversed with the world in fee-notes, we'd still be offering smoke-signal solutions! Am not saying that we go to the logical extreme and give it away for free - am just saying that we avoid the other extreme that most of the aforementioned professions are knee-deep in.
On 13 June 2011 11:00, Josiah Mugambi <jmugambi@gmail.com> wrote:
Interesting discussion.
Some stuff could be offered for free (e.g. what's the difference between SSH and Telnet) while other stuff could be done as a consultancy... e.g. Please secure my server now that you have explained to me that Telnet is insecure (vs SSH). Conceivably, one could gain business by offering some free advice first.
Just a rudimentary example though :)
-- Josiah Mugambi
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 10:46 AM, David Kiania | Asentric Consulting Ltd <kianiadee@gmail.com> wrote:
It's granted that with every visit to the lawyer/doctor you'll have to pay and depending on the experience and the issue at hand you cough through the nose. Why should it be any different for Technology why should we see it as any less?
Secondly is there any guarantee that after the free consultation, business will flow and they all of a sudden willing to pay top dollar for quality service?
Kiania D
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 10:16 AM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote:
Let me put it another way : Would we prefer many more dollar$ over faster innovative progress ? Clearly, the legal profession is stagnated because there's a fee note for everything, and maybe soon, even for mundane greetings.
On 13 June 2011 10:09, David Kiania | Asentric Consulting Ltd <kianiadee@gmail.com> wrote:
IT has been there for ages my friend what they called smoke signals then we call wireless communication today ;-)
I think we are to blame to 'devaluing' our profession, we need to stand our ground and earn the same respect as Law, IT, Finance you name it.
My thoughts
Kiania D.
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 9:37 AM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote:
The Law and Accounting are today just what they were a hundred
years
ago - save for a higher pile of case files. IT on the other hand is many light years ahead because of the sharing culture. I'd say, that the other professions have a lot to learn from us. A whole lot. On 13 June 2011 08:43, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > http://skunkworks-ke.tumblr.com/post/4715250243/screw-you-pay-me-how-to-nego tiate-with-customers > > Very interesting video I came across on the subject.... > > On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 8:14 AM, justus <mutahijustus@gmail.com> > wrote: >> >> im also a worried man , i worked with a certain govt body as IT >> support >> for sometime, when i got out some guys who were my bosses still >> call >> me >> claiming their personal computer needs formatting , whether i >> have an >> antivirus, all this crap and they rarely pay a penny just because >> they >> were >> my bosses by then. there should be a limit .making a call to ask >> for >> help is >> okay for me but bringing your laptop to update your antivirus is >> too >> much >> -for free!! >> >> On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 10:50 PM, Net Caster <madungu@gmail.com> >> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Skunks, >>> Something has been bothering me for some time now on this list. I >>> know >>> many skunks have set up IT businesses and consultancy in areas >>> such >>> as >>> web-design, networks, VOIP, software development, support, FOSS >>> implementation and maintenance etc. Lawyers, doctors, civil >>> engineers, >>> realtors, quantity surveyors and plumbers have also registered >>> their >>> businesses. The one major difference between the techies and the >>> later group >>> is that we tend to offer our knowledge, skills and consultancy >>> for >>> free on >>> public forums such as Skunkworks. There is a fine thick line >>> between >>> offering a fellow techie help when stuck and streaming really >>> premium >>> information to non-techies and thus denying professionals their >>> right >>> earning. Those of you who have engaged lawyers, realtors and >>> plumbers >>> recently can attest that nothing is free from the outset. >>> >>> While you may have a day job, there are fellow techies who hassle >>> with >>> start-ups and can offer these services at a fee. I believe the >>> better >>> approach is to refer such questions to IT companies we know who >>> offer >>> the >>> service/product in question. Come on guys, the techies need to >>> pay >>> bills, >>> tax and put food on the table. >>> >>> I've got lawyer friends who cannot copy-paste that company >>> incorporation >>> document for free claiming LSK does not allow them to offer free >>> service (my >>> foot). On the other hand, techies would helpfully volunteer >>> information on >>> how to google, download and customise IT Policy without asking >>> for a >>> cent. >>> Very soon, IT lawyers (they exist, by the way) will start >>> "developing" IT >>> Policy at a fee as IT professionals watch. >>> >>> I think we are our worst enemies and we invite quarks with money >>> to >>> easily set up and run IT businesses at our expense. In the end it >>> helps no >>> one. Not the industry and its growth in competence, >>> professionalism >>> and >>> respect. Not the people we think we are helping and not >>> ourselves. >>> And we >>> ask why we are treated with disdain in office. Look at the >>> mirror. >>> >>> Just my opinion. Don't lynch me. Maybe it's just me but am I so >>> off >>> the >>> rail? >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Skunkworks mailing list >>> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>> ------------ >>> Skunkworks Rules >>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>> ------------ >>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >> >> >> >> -- >> Justus >> +254 724 46 55 99 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Skunkworks mailing list >> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >> ------------ >> Skunkworks Rules >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >> ------------ >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke > > > > -- > With Regards, > > Phares Kariuki > > | T: +254 720 406 093 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | > Skype: > kariukiphares | B: http://www.kaboro.com/ | > > _______________________________________________ > Skunkworks mailing list > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke
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--
[Asentric Consulting Ltd]
"The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in war." - Navy SEAL INSTRUCTOR _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
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--
[Asentric Consulting Ltd]
"The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in war." - Navy SEAL INSTRUCTOR _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
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-- [Asentric Consulting Ltd] "The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in war." - Navy SEAL INSTRUCTOR _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
@ Phares Thanks - this video link really sums it all: http://skunkworks-ke.tumblr.com/post/4715250243/screw-you-pay-me-how-to-nego... <it seems we are not the only ones having the same problem [?]>
Another factor we may be overlooking here, is the fact that, unlike other professions like law and medicine, most techies are in their respective field because they truly LOVE what they are doing, and would even do it for free. They love the challenge. I'm not saying lawyers and doctors do not love what they do, but answer me this: How many corporate lawyers would do their current work if they had to do it for free, in their spare time, and take day jobs as waiters to support themselves? And how many would burn the midnight oil to offer better services to their clientèle? Look throughout most organisations: The first people to get to office, or the last ones to leave the office are mostly the techies. Is it because they have loads of work than the rest? NO. It's because of their own wanting. Sometimes we love what we do too much to a fault. My 2 cents. Kind Regards, F.O.O.
Hmm I think you could be wrong to a certain extent. Doctors give free service to each other all the time. ie they have their forums just like we do. Lawyers too. So do architects. I have personally sat around doctors discussing difficult cases offering advise even training each other almost the same way we do to each other at Afnog. For technical people, we have more avenues for sharing, and the scale is larger. There are more people in need of IT an related support than medical advice, Lawyers come close. But who here has never asked a lawyer buddy with help interpreting something? or just making sense of some legal issue?. There are more of us because its a bigger market. The point Im making is it happens in other professions, just at a smaller scale. If you are ever in a situation like building a house without an architects input but needed one to look over YOUR plans, I bet you'll get one to help out, but they are few, which makes them busier, thats the reality. In IT we tend to help up to a certain point. It also depends heavilly on who you know. On a bad day I have logged on to some people's routers on this list to help out, I don't think I took someone elses job/more away, he knew me, I could help, so I did, If he didn't then maybe they'd have paid someone, or got fired who knows:-) . So I say share more, not less - when you can. JGitau On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 1:56 PM, Frank <fraogongi@gmail.com> wrote:
Another factor we may be overlooking here, is the fact that, unlike other professions like law and medicine, most techies are in their respective field because they truly LOVE what they are doing, and would even do it for free. They love the challenge. I'm not saying lawyers and doctors do not love what they do, but answer me this: How many corporate lawyers would do their current work if they had to do it for free, in their spare time, and take day jobs as waiters to support themselves? And how many would burn the midnight oil to offer better services to their clientèle? Look throughout most organisations: The first people to get to office, or the last ones to leave the office are mostly the techies. Is it because they have loads of work than the rest? NO. It's because of their own wanting. Sometimes we love what we do too much to a fault. My 2 cents. Kind Regards, F.O.O.
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-- **Gitau
Always bundle the "consultancy bit within your "product or service" Call it Professional Services .. most buyers in this part of the world are allergic to "local" consultancy. They would rather pay 100 times much more to a white "consultant" from the UK. Its called neo-colonialism and its a reality on the ground so rather than fighting it .. figure out a way round it ...
Hi, I wish to comment on the issue of techie being looked down upon by other professionals. This is very true. And the reason has everything to do with the limited control of the entry to the field. All the other professionals have a strict regulations on who joins the professional body. We do not have the same for ICT. Have observed that majority of doctors, engineers, lawyers and accountants are into ICT consultancy and equipments provision. They have found it is easy to make money in ICT . They just go to China, import ICT related equipments and then canvass for tenders. Nothing wrong with it, but of course the services are wanting. Look at the number of colleges and universities offering ICT related degrees! Some colleges have just five old P3 and are offering Diploma in computers With such mediocre services from non techies, poor training and lack of professional body, the situation can only get worse. The solution is to have a recognised professional body for Techies similar to the one of engineers, doctors and lawyers. Just my thought Regards
Hi, There are three models considered in pricing of goods and services i.e. *Freemium model* Freemium is a business model <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_model> that works by offering a basic product or service free of charge (such as software, web services or other) while charging a premium for advanced features, functionality, or related products and services. This is a very popular model and has been adopted by companies such as Google in offering free gmail accounts while those clients who need more functionality pay for premium account. *Third party pays* In this business model services and goods are offered for free but a third party pays. This model is probably responsible for making Google a household name in the search market. The service is offered free for clients searching for keywords while advertisers pay for the service. In the local scene think of KTN, NTV, Citizen e.t.c. *"Nothing for nothing model"* I call it "nothing for nothing model" for lack of a better word. This is the most popular business model where goods and services are exchanged for monetary or other direct gain. Adopted by millions of businesses in the World. Factors to consider in choosing an appropriate model is cost of production, marketing and distribution. My take is the World is now more than ever moving towards the free business model. Indeed, Lawyers do over free services commonly known among legal circles as Pro bono services for example in representing indigents facing murder trials. PWC also offers quite some free services as seen in TV professional shows e.t.c. Regards Edward Mayaka On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 8:43 AM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
http://skunkworks-ke.tumblr.com/post/4715250243/screw-you-pay-me-how-to-nego...
Very interesting video I came across on the subject....
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 8:14 AM, justus <mutahijustus@gmail.com> wrote:
im also a worried man , i worked with a certain govt body as IT support for sometime, when i got out some guys who were my bosses still call me claiming their personal computer needs formatting , whether i have an antivirus, all this crap and they rarely pay a penny just because they were my bosses by then. there should be a limit .making a call to ask for help is okay for me but bringing your laptop to update your antivirus is too much -for free!!
On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 10:50 PM, Net Caster <madungu@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Skunks, Something has been bothering me for some time now on this list. I know many skunks have set up IT businesses and consultancy in areas such as web-design, networks, VOIP, software development, support, FOSS implementation and maintenance etc. Lawyers, doctors, civil engineers, realtors, quantity surveyors and plumbers have also registered their businesses. The one major difference between the techies and the later group is that we tend to offer our knowledge, skills and consultancy for free on public forums such as Skunkworks. There is a fine thick line between offering a fellow techie help when stuck and streaming really premium information to non-techies and thus denying professionals their right earning. Those of you who have engaged lawyers, realtors and plumbers recently can attest that nothing is free from the outset.
While you may have a day job, there are fellow techies who hassle with start-ups and can offer these services at a fee. I believe the better approach is to refer such questions to IT companies we know who offer the service/product in question. Come on guys, the techies need to pay bills, tax and put food on the table.
I've got lawyer friends who cannot copy-paste that company incorporation document for free claiming LSK does not allow them to offer free service (my foot). On the other hand, techies would helpfully volunteer information on how to google, download and customise IT Policy without asking for a cent. Very soon, IT lawyers (they exist, by the way) will start "developing" IT Policy at a fee as IT professionals watch.
I think we are our worst enemies and we invite quarks with money to easily set up and run IT businesses at our expense. In the end it helps no one. Not the industry and its growth in competence, professionalism and respect. Not the people we think we are helping and not ourselves. And we ask why we are treated with disdain in office. Look at the mirror.
Just my opinion. Don't lynch me. Maybe it's just me but am I so off the rail?
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Justus +254 724 46 55 99
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-- With Regards,
Phares Kariuki
| T: +254 720 406 093 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares | B: http://www.kaboro.com/ |
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
@ Edward Mayaka Actually its a Twisted Freemium Business Model. In IT business I have seen 10 different models used and they have actually worked for many companies. The freemium model is ideal for software development. On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 10:14 AM, edward mayaka <emayaka@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
There are three models considered in pricing of goods and services i.e.
*Freemium model* Freemium is a business model <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_model> that works by offering a basic product or service free of charge (such as software, web services or other) while charging a premium for advanced features, functionality, or related products and services. This is a very popular model and has been adopted by companies such as Google in offering free gmail accounts while those clients who need more functionality pay for premium account.
*Third party pays* In this business model services and goods are offered for free but a third party pays. This model is probably responsible for making Google a household name in the search market. The service is offered free for clients searching for keywords while advertisers pay for the service. In the local scene think of KTN, NTV, Citizen e.t.c.
*"Nothing for nothing model"* I call it "nothing for nothing model" for lack of a better word. This is the most popular business model where goods and services are exchanged for monetary or other direct gain. Adopted by millions of businesses in the World.
Factors to consider in choosing an appropriate model is cost of production, marketing and distribution. My take is the World is now more than ever moving towards the free business model.
Indeed, Lawyers do over free services commonly known among legal circles as Pro bono services for example in representing indigents facing murder trials. PWC also offers quite some free services as seen in TV professional shows e.t.c.
Regards Edward Mayaka
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 8:43 AM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com>wrote:
http://skunkworks-ke.tumblr.com/post/4715250243/screw-you-pay-me-how-to-nego...
Very interesting video I came across on the subject....
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 8:14 AM, justus <mutahijustus@gmail.com> wrote:
im also a worried man , i worked with a certain govt body as IT support for sometime, when i got out some guys who were my bosses still call me claiming their personal computer needs formatting , whether i have an antivirus, all this crap and they rarely pay a penny just because they were my bosses by then. there should be a limit .making a call to ask for help is okay for me but bringing your laptop to update your antivirus is too much -for free!!
On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 10:50 PM, Net Caster <madungu@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Skunks, Something has been bothering me for some time now on this list. I know many skunks have set up IT businesses and consultancy in areas such as web-design, networks, VOIP, software development, support, FOSS implementation and maintenance etc. Lawyers, doctors, civil engineers, realtors, quantity surveyors and plumbers have also registered their businesses. The one major difference between the techies and the later group is that we tend to offer our knowledge, skills and consultancy for free on public forums such as Skunkworks. There is a fine thick line between offering a fellow techie help when stuck and streaming really premium information to non-techies and thus denying professionals their right earning. Those of you who have engaged lawyers, realtors and plumbers recently can attest that nothing is free from the outset.
While you may have a day job, there are fellow techies who hassle with start-ups and can offer these services at a fee. I believe the better approach is to refer such questions to IT companies we know who offer the service/product in question. Come on guys, the techies need to pay bills, tax and put food on the table.
I've got lawyer friends who cannot copy-paste that company incorporation document for free claiming LSK does not allow them to offer free service (my foot). On the other hand, techies would helpfully volunteer information on how to google, download and customise IT Policy without asking for a cent. Very soon, IT lawyers (they exist, by the way) will start "developing" IT Policy at a fee as IT professionals watch.
I think we are our worst enemies and we invite quarks with money to easily set up and run IT businesses at our expense. In the end it helps no one. Not the industry and its growth in competence, professionalism and respect. Not the people we think we are helping and not ourselves. And we ask why we are treated with disdain in office. Look at the mirror.
Just my opinion. Don't lynch me. Maybe it's just me but am I so off the rail?
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-- Justus +254 724 46 55 99
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-- With Regards,
Phares Kariuki
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True people we need to came up with an association of our own leave alone computer society of kenya. That will address the needs of us techies. How about that
In my view this is a non-issue. You only give free help to family members, friends and colleagues stuck in a rut. Same as any other profession be it doctors lawyers etc. Even matatu guys help each other out. If you start charging for mentioning that Ubuntu is a linux distro then I see broke futures. . On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 5:22 PM, David Nyamboki <tchadavey@gmail.com> wrote:
True people we need to came up with an association of our own leave alone computer society of kenya. That will address the needs of us techies. How about that
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-- Regards, Mark Mwangi http://mwangy.posterous.com
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 17:22, David Nyamboki <tchadavey@gmail.com> wrote:
True people we need to came up with an association of our own leave alone computer society of kenya. That will address the needs of us techies. How about that
I am sure no one in IT is ever coerced into giving advise/help to a colleague or even some anonymous person. Association?? Take that back! -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. Please consider the environment before printing this email.
participants (19)
-
David Kiania | Asentric Consulting Ltd -
David Nyamboki -
edward mayaka -
Frank -
John Gitau -
Joseph McDonald -
Josiah Mugambi -
justus -
m mugo -
Mark Mwangi -
muteti＠gmail.com -
Ndungi Kyalo -
ndungu stephen -
Net Caster -
Odhiambo Washington -
Phares Kariuki -
Shadrack Mwaniki -
Thomas Kibui -
Tony Gacheru