Do you really want all that information about you to be accessible through one single number? At one point in the US most states would use your social security number as the number on your drivers license number, but they stopped doing that a few years back because anyone who got hold of your drivers license could get all kinds of access to your personal information. Even so a lot of government and private database are still built around the social security number and that causes all kinds of privacy problems, from confidentiality of medical records to identity theft. With the databases of major financial institutions and government agencies worldwide getting hacked on a regular basis I personally would prefer my data to be as decentralized as possible. Josh On 1/29/2012 1:41 PM, skunkworks-request@lists.my.co.ke wrote:
Message: 1 Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 10:21:44 +0100 From: kris njoroge<krsnjo@gmail.com> To: Skunkworks Forum<skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Subject: [Skunkworks] Just a thought Message-ID: <CAK37A++wLJNwHXD7VpvtS2BZyV43c=Z0FwBG6FOhkYpNe8KDaQ@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
What would it take to have all persons in Kenya registered and given an id number same as the one we have then extend the use of this number to identify you for life.
@josh so what would be the primary key or foreign key for that matter? the problem is not the information but the kind of information about you that would be accessible to those who should not have access to it. In the case of the drivers license guess its the amount of information returned to anyone that is the problem and not that the primary key was the social security no. Plus if information about you is being stored in different institutions or government agencies how else would they link your data across all the db's. Any system can be abused be it computers or paper systems. What would you suggest as the next step? -- * If the human brain were so simple that we could understand it, we would be so simple that we couldn't. - Emerson M. Pugh *
I think we are making the classic mistake programmers make; given a problem, jump straight to solving it in technology without doing due diligence and doing the bits in between problem and software. IMHO, for and undertaking as such as this, the primary key in the database is the LEAST of your problems. I would think that solving the human issues (privacy, accessibility from ASAL, security etc) would have precedence. On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 6:16 PM, kris njoroge <krsnjo@gmail.com> wrote:
@josh so what would be the primary key or foreign key for that matter? the problem is not the information but the kind of information about you that would be accessible to those who should not have access to it. In the case of the drivers license guess its the amount of information returned to anyone that is the problem and not that the primary key was the social security no. Plus if information about you is being stored in different institutions or government agencies how else would they link your data across all the db's. Any system can be abused be it computers or paper systems. What would you suggest as the next step?
-- *
If the human brain were so simple that we could understand it, we would be so simple that we couldn't. - Emerson M. Pugh
*
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@Karunyu, Could you be a little more specific? Try to be part of the solution by telling us how you'd go about this. Leaving it as it is doesn't help, but simply means we retain the status quo. We need to be the change we want. On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 09:19, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com> wrote:
I think we are making the classic mistake programmers make; given a problem, jump straight to solving it in technology without doing due diligence and doing the bits in between problem and software.
IMHO, for and undertaking as such as this, the primary key in the database is the LEAST of your problems.
I would think that solving the human issues (privacy, accessibility from ASAL, security etc) would have precedence.
On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 6:16 PM, kris njoroge <krsnjo@gmail.com> wrote:
@josh so what would be the primary key or foreign key for that matter? the problem is not the information but the kind of information about you that would be accessible to those who should not have access to it. In the case of the drivers license guess its the amount of information returned to anyone that is the problem and not that the primary key was the social security no. Plus if information about you is being stored in different institutions or government agencies how else would they link your data across all the db's. Any system can be abused be it computers or paper systems. What would you suggest as the next step?
Essentially you are advocating to the end of the little privacy remaining. I think of it this way, someone is always tracking your activities examples 1. Supermarket smartcard - determines where you normally shop and can create a map of your movement and shopping trends. 2. Debit/Credit card - determines where and how you use your moolah, mapping your locations 3. Fuel card - determines where & how much you usually consume in fuelwise, still mapping your location 4. Mobile phone - continuously tracks your movement the entire day how much more information do you want do divulge about yourself? Or maybe I have been watching too much TV, person of interest etcetc On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 9:40 AM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>wrote:
@Karunyu,
Could you be a little more specific? Try to be part of the solution by telling us how you'd go about this. Leaving it as it is doesn't help, but simply means we retain the status quo. We need to be the change we want.
On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 09:19, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com> wrote:
I think we are making the classic mistake programmers make; given a problem, jump straight to solving it in technology without doing due diligence and doing the bits in between problem and software.
IMHO, for and undertaking as such as this, the primary key in the database is the LEAST of your problems.
I would think that solving the human issues (privacy, accessibility from ASAL, security etc) would have precedence.
On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 6:16 PM, kris njoroge <krsnjo@gmail.com> wrote:
@josh so what would be the primary key or foreign key for that matter? the problem is not the information but the kind of information about you that would be accessible to those who should not have access to it. In the case of the drivers license guess its the amount of information returned to anyone that is the problem and not that the primary key was the social security no. Plus if information about you is being stored in different institutions or government agencies how else would they link your data across all the db's. Any system can be abused be it computers or paper systems. What would you suggest as the next step?
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-- Lusiola Brian |3 R 1 /-\ |\|
@Brian, I've always suspected that the pay tv channels also know what you watch, since they are able to know which channels you can't watch... just a guess Your medical insurer and doctor knows what you ail from, KPLC and NWSC know where you live, KRA and your bank knows how much you earn, and how you spend it, the list is rather long. Indeed, the little privacy remaining is very little. On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 9:51 AM, Brian L <lusiola@gmail.com> wrote:
Essentially you are advocating to the end of the little privacy remaining.
I think of it this way, someone is always tracking your activities
examples 1. Supermarket smartcard - determines where you normally shop and can create a map of your movement and shopping trends. 2. Debit/Credit card - determines where and how you use your moolah, mapping your locations 3. Fuel card - determines where & how much you usually consume in fuelwise, still mapping your location 4. Mobile phone - continuously tracks your movement the entire day
how much more information do you want do divulge about yourself?
Or maybe I have been watching too much TV, person of interest etcetc
On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 9:40 AM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>wrote:
@Karunyu,
Could you be a little more specific? Try to be part of the solution by telling us how you'd go about this. Leaving it as it is doesn't help, but simply means we retain the status quo. We need to be the change we want.
On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 09:19, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com> wrote:
I think we are making the classic mistake programmers make; given a problem, jump straight to solving it in technology without doing due diligence and doing the bits in between problem and software.
IMHO, for and undertaking as such as this, the primary key in the database is the LEAST of your problems.
I would think that solving the human issues (privacy, accessibility from ASAL, security etc) would have precedence.
On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 6:16 PM, kris njoroge <krsnjo@gmail.com> wrote:
@josh so what would be the primary key or foreign key for that matter? the problem is not the information but the kind of information about you that would be accessible to those who should not have access to it. In the case of the drivers license guess its the amount of information returned to anyone that is the problem and not that the primary key was the social security no. Plus if information about you is being stored in different institutions or government agencies how else would they link your data across all the db's. Any system can be abused be it computers or paper systems. What would you suggest as the next step?
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-- Lusiola Brian |3 R 1 /-\ |\|
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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-- Regards, Peter Karunyu -------------------
@Peter you are very right. With DVB-T/S/H and other standards ATSC, ISDB etc etc there is the ability to determine what particular set top box or digital tv is tuned to which stream. Tie that info to the user account details and voila "they" know. Recently, we found out facebook tracks which other website you visit. Why is everyone trying to collect more data about you? On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 10:55 AM, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com> wrote:
@Brian, I've always suspected that the pay tv channels also know what you watch, since they are able to know which channels you can't watch... just a guess
Your medical insurer and doctor knows what you ail from, KPLC and NWSC know where you live, KRA and your bank knows how much you earn, and how you spend it, the list is rather long.
Indeed, the little privacy remaining is very little.
On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 9:51 AM, Brian L <lusiola@gmail.com> wrote:
Essentially you are advocating to the end of the little privacy remaining.
I think of it this way, someone is always tracking your activities
examples 1. Supermarket smartcard - determines where you normally shop and can create a map of your movement and shopping trends. 2. Debit/Credit card - determines where and how you use your moolah, mapping your locations 3. Fuel card - determines where & how much you usually consume in fuelwise, still mapping your location 4. Mobile phone - continuously tracks your movement the entire day
how much more information do you want do divulge about yourself?
Or maybe I have been watching too much TV, person of interest etcetc
On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 9:40 AM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>wrote:
@Karunyu,
Could you be a little more specific? Try to be part of the solution by telling us how you'd go about this. Leaving it as it is doesn't help, but simply means we retain the status quo. We need to be the change we want.
On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 09:19, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com> wrote:
I think we are making the classic mistake programmers make; given a problem, jump straight to solving it in technology without doing due diligence and doing the bits in between problem and software.
IMHO, for and undertaking as such as this, the primary key in the database is the LEAST of your problems.
I would think that solving the human issues (privacy, accessibility from ASAL, security etc) would have precedence.
On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 6:16 PM, kris njoroge <krsnjo@gmail.com> wrote:
@josh so what would be the primary key or foreign key for that matter? the problem is not the information but the kind of information about you that would be accessible to those who should not have access to it. In the case of the drivers license guess its the amount of information returned to anyone that is the problem and not that the primary key was the social security no. Plus if information about you is being stored in different institutions or government agencies how else would they link your data across all the db's. Any system can be abused be it computers or paper systems. What would you suggest as the next step?
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-- Lusiola Brian |3 R 1 /-\ |\|
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-- Regards, Peter Karunyu -------------------
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-- Lusiola Brian |3 R 1 /-\ |\|
As a point, the situation at Immigration is so bad that they ask you for details they have when you are applying for a passport. The passport is so unreliable that some banks do not accept it in place of your National ID, or even when opening a new bank account. Several passport numbers can be linked to one ID (standard procedure), however, a valid passport can be linked to the wrong ID (irregularity)
I did. 1. Stop thinking about the technology at this point, you are just wasting time which could be better used *designing the solution*. Note that technology just implements part of the solution, its not the solution in and by itself. 2. Solve the human factor sub-problem; what privacy concerns will such a solution raise? How will each of them be solved? 3. Some parts of Kenya have no electricity, leave alone internet; how will those people access the solution? 4. We all know the capability of our govt in terms of security, so how can we improve it to be sufficient for such a undertaking. Having all the citizens data in one 'database' is what I think is called a Honeypot, a target sweet enough to awaken the uber hackers who would make those script kiddies who deface websites seems like idiotic morons All I am saying, the problem is letter A in the alphabet, the database and primary keys are letter T, and theres a whole lot of work to do in between, and this work just happens to the most important. On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 9:40 AM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>wrote:
@Karunyu,
Could you be a little more specific? Try to be part of the solution by telling us how you'd go about this. Leaving it as it is doesn't help, but simply means we retain the status quo. We need to be the change we want.
On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 09:19, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com> wrote:
I think we are making the classic mistake programmers make; given a problem, jump straight to solving it in technology without doing due diligence and doing the bits in between problem and software.
IMHO, for and undertaking as such as this, the primary key in the database is the LEAST of your problems.
I would think that solving the human issues (privacy, accessibility from ASAL, security etc) would have precedence.
On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 6:16 PM, kris njoroge <krsnjo@gmail.com> wrote:
@josh so what would be the primary key or foreign key for that matter? the problem is not the information but the kind of information about you that would be accessible to those who should not have access to it. In the case of the drivers license guess its the amount of information returned to anyone that is the problem and not that the primary key was the social security no. Plus if information about you is being stored in different institutions or government agencies how else would they link your data across all the db's. Any system can be abused be it computers or paper systems. What would you suggest as the next step?
Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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-- Regards, Peter Karunyu -------------------
On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 10:50, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com> wrote:
I did.
1. Stop thinking about the technology at this point, you are just wasting time which could be better used *designing the solution*. Note that technology just implements part of the solution, its not the solution in and by itself.
True, but we are looking at a the solution from a technology point of view.
1. Solve the human factor sub-problem; what privacy concerns will such a solution raise? How will each of them be solved?
What privacy are people talking about here? What is it that you have that
is associated with the govt that you think is still private?
1. Some parts of Kenya have no electricity, leave alone internet; how will those people access the solution?
Electricity is not a limitation. Terminals can run on rechargable
batteries, just like phones. Electricity is never more than 10km away even at those places without it.
1. We all know the capability of our govt in terms of security, so how can we improve it to be sufficient for such a undertaking. Having all the citizens data in one 'database' is what I think is called a Honeypot, a target sweet enough to awaken the uber hackers who would make those script kiddies who deface websites seems like idiotic morons
And what will they be looking for? The UID (Universal ID)? They can get
that already.
All I am saying, the problem is letter A in the alphabet, the database and primary keys are letter T, and theres a whole lot of work to do in between, and this work just happens to the most important.
I thought what was important in the original posting was to have a single
identification that identifies someone across the board - not an ID/No, Passport No, D/L Number, PIN Number - all issued by the govt. I personally don't care about the security of those numbers. They are with the govt and anyone who has a way of getting them will get them. My point for supporting the OP was in the context of having a single universal identification number - that can be used to track/identify me everywhere, by govt or by blackhats! -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. Please consider the environment before printing this email.
@Peter the important thing here is not that the data will sit in one database, for example once the system is in place the statistic's bureau could be better placed to give timely and accurate data that could be used for development purposes or business. Think about it we are all elements in a system and are all inter-related in some sense. They say Nairobi has 4 million inhabitants, where do they all live, are there services where they do what is there household incomes for example. How easy would it be to get that information? How many people are trained as electrical engineers and what level of study do they have college, university?. The fear of your data being stolen should not be an issue. How many banks have you heard have been hacked into? Most of the theft is done with help from the inside, same way right now if you know somebody you could mine information on someones bank accounts etc. As an important service by the government i believe the right people would be hired if they have not already been. Unless am not looking at it right all proposed data entry points have access to electricity and a mobile network. The Local hospital, the chief's, also they could have rechargeable devices that could be used in the field if the need arises. * If the human brain were so simple that we could understand it, we would be so simple that we couldn't. - Emerson M. Pugh *
<quote> The fear of your data being stolen should not be an issue. How many banks have you heard have been hacked into </quote> This argument is a fallacy . The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 11:58 AM, kris njoroge <krsnjo@gmail.com> wrote:
@Peter the important thing here is not that the data will sit in one database, for example once the system is in place the statistic's bureau could be better placed to give timely and accurate data that could be used for development purposes or business. Think about it we are all elements in a system and are all inter-related in some sense. They say Nairobi has 4 million inhabitants, where do they all live, are there services where they do what is there household incomes for example. How easy would it be to get that information? How many people are trained as electrical engineers and what level of study do they have college, university?.
The fear of your data being stolen should not be an issue. How many banks have you heard have been hacked into? Most of the theft is done with help from the inside, same way right now if you know somebody you could mine information on someones bank accounts etc. As an important service by the government i believe the right people would be hired if they have not already been.
Unless am not looking at it right all proposed data entry points have access to electricity and a mobile network. The Local hospital, the chief's, also they could have rechargeable devices that could be used in the field if the need arises. *
If the human brain were so simple that we could understand it, we would be so simple that we couldn't. - Emerson M. Pugh
*
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I am not against such a system, its just that I think we should put more thought into designing the solution. On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 11:58 AM, kris njoroge <krsnjo@gmail.com> wrote:
@Peter the important thing here is not that the data will sit in one database, for example once the system is in place the statistic's bureau could be better placed to give timely and accurate data that could be used for development purposes or business. Think about it we are all elements in a system and are all inter-related in some sense. They say Nairobi has 4 million inhabitants, where do they all live, are there services where they do what is there household incomes for example. How easy would it be to get that information? How many people are trained as electrical engineers and what level of study do they have college, university?.
The fear of your data being stolen should not be an issue.
The fear of data being stolen is a VERY real issue for some reason, probably why there are several legislation's which provide guidelines on it. The more the data becomes personal, the more it needs to be secured and restricted.
How many banks have you heard have been hacked into? Most of the theft is done with help from the inside, same way right now if you know somebody you could mine information on someones bank accounts etc.
I read somewhere on the net that banks tend to NOT report any frauds or hacking to the public domain for fear of client backlash. Any human designed system can be hacked, its all a matter of time and effort. Ideally, security experts just try to make it really time and effort consuming when they secure systems, thus make the hackers focus on easier targets.
As an important service by the government i believe the right people would be hired if they have not already been.
I wish not to make this a political discussion, but our type of government is led by politicians, who tend to make political decisions when appointing people to positions. This significantly reduces my trust in the fact that politicians will appoint the right people to the right positions.
Unless am not looking at it right all proposed data entry points have access to electricity and a mobile network. The Local hospital, the chief's, also they could have rechargeable devices that could be used in the field if the need arises.
Again, this is a error programmers make, i.e assuming all users run the latest version of Firefox, read instructions on screen before entering data etc... What are the data entry points? In my opinion, these would be all government offices and facilities, including remote chief's camp's. I come from the slopes of mount Kenya, a relatively well to do region, and in some of the interiors, chief's offices are just mabati sheds without even a typewriter, leave alone a computer. How bad is it in NEP? Suppose one is in an area where they have to climb a tree to access mobile network signal? However, we are asking the right questions. Given these operating conditions, we should then put in a core requirement, that the solution should be useable on mobile phones with or without internet.
*
If the human brain were so simple that we could understand it, we would be so simple that we couldn't. - Emerson M. Pugh
*
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-- Regards, Peter Karunyu -------------------
@Karunyu, You must be a Systems Designer/Analyst. @ Njoroge, You must be a Systems Developer/Programmer. I like both arguments coz what we are all saying is that a technological solution is required - the end justifies the means - and that for it to be feasible, some analysis/design is required - means to an end. On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 1:03 PM, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com> wrote:
I am not against such a system, its just that I think we should put more thought into designing the solution.
On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 11:58 AM, kris njoroge <krsnjo@gmail.com> wrote:
@Peter the important thing here is not that the data will sit in one database, for example once the system is in place the statistic's bureau could be better placed to give timely and accurate data that could be used for development purposes or business. Think about it we are all elements in a system and are all inter-related in some sense. They say Nairobi has 4 million inhabitants, where do they all live, are there services where they do what is there household incomes for example. How easy would it be to get that information? How many people are trained as electrical engineers and what level of study do they have college, university?.
The fear of your data being stolen should not be an issue.
The fear of data being stolen is a VERY real issue for some reason, probably why there are several legislation's which provide guidelines on it. The more the data becomes personal, the more it needs to be secured and restricted.
How many banks have you heard have been hacked into? Most of the theft is done with help from the inside, same way right now if you know somebody you could mine information on someones bank accounts etc.
I read somewhere on the net that banks tend to NOT report any frauds or hacking to the public domain for fear of client backlash.
Any human designed system can be hacked, its all a matter of time and effort. Ideally, security experts just try to make it really time and effort consuming when they secure systems, thus make the hackers focus on easier targets.
As an important service by the government i believe the right people would be hired if they have not already been.
I wish not to make this a political discussion, but our type of government is led by politicians, who tend to make political decisions when appointing people to positions. This significantly reduces my trust in the fact that politicians will appoint the right people to the right positions.
Unless am not looking at it right all proposed data entry points have access to electricity and a mobile network. The Local hospital, the chief's, also they could have rechargeable devices that could be used in the field if the need arises.
Again, this is a error programmers make, i.e assuming all users run the latest version of Firefox, read instructions on screen before entering data etc...
What are the data entry points?
In my opinion, these would be all government offices and facilities, including remote chief's camp's. I come from the slopes of mount Kenya, a relatively well to do region, and in some of the interiors, chief's offices are just mabati sheds without even a typewriter, leave alone a computer. How bad is it in NEP?
Suppose one is in an area where they have to climb a tree to access mobile network signal?
However, we are asking the right questions. Given these operating conditions, we should then put in a core requirement, that the solution should be useable on mobile phones with or without internet.
*
If the human brain were so simple that we could understand it, we would be so simple that we couldn't. - Emerson M. Pugh
*
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-- Regards, Peter Karunyu -------------------
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-- Raymond Rono, raymond.rono@gmail.com. 'One who understands much displays a greater simplicity of character than one who understands little.'
Great concept. I like the idea of one "getting in the system" at birth. The idea itself is the source of countless Sci-Fi books and movies. I blogged about this aspect of Identity Management a while back here... http://warero.wordpress.com/2011/06/16/government-facebook/ Personally I believe the greatest impediment to such a system will be those who fear the end times, "666" and such. As it were, I believe privacy died a while back, the stench is only just reaching our noses. If you think about it availability and accessibility of data form multiple sources is not the real issue, the predictive analysis of it is. That is why the term Big Data is such a buzz word. A simplistic observation is the data available on Opendata.go.ke. I believe a more worthy project would be attempts towards predictive analytics of the data already available, our data is already sitting in varied forms from birth certification, KCPE,KCSE, KRA pins, marriage certification etc. Some of this info is available online. On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 2:40 PM, Raymond Rono <raymond.rono@gmail.com>wrote:
@Karunyu, You must be a Systems Designer/Analyst. @ Njoroge, You must be a Systems Developer/Programmer. I like both arguments coz what we are all saying is that a technological solution is required - the end justifies the means - and that for it to be feasible, some analysis/design is required - means to an end.
On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 1:03 PM, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com> wrote:
I am not against such a system, its just that I think we should put more thought into designing the solution.
On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 11:58 AM, kris njoroge <krsnjo@gmail.com> wrote:
@Peter the important thing here is not that the data will sit in one database, for example once the system is in place the statistic's bureau could be better placed to give timely and accurate data that could be used for development purposes or business. Think about it we are all elements in a system and are all inter-related in some sense. They say Nairobi has 4 million inhabitants, where do they all live, are there services where they do what is there household incomes for example. How easy would it be to get that information? How many people are trained as electrical engineers and what level of study do they have college, university?.
The fear of your data being stolen should not be an issue.
The fear of data being stolen is a VERY real issue for some reason, probably why there are several legislation's which provide guidelines on it. The more the data becomes personal, the more it needs to be secured and restricted.
How many banks have you heard have been hacked into? Most of the theft is done with help from the inside, same way right now if you know somebody you could mine information on someones bank accounts etc.
I read somewhere on the net that banks tend to NOT report any frauds or hacking to the public domain for fear of client backlash.
Any human designed system can be hacked, its all a matter of time and effort. Ideally, security experts just try to make it really time and effort consuming when they secure systems, thus make the hackers focus on easier targets.
As an important service by the government i believe the right people would be hired if they have not already been.
I wish not to make this a political discussion, but our type of government is led by politicians, who tend to make political decisions when appointing people to positions. This significantly reduces my trust in the fact that politicians will appoint the right people to the right positions.
Unless am not looking at it right all proposed data entry points have access to electricity and a mobile network. The Local hospital, the chief's, also they could have rechargeable devices that could be used in the field if the need arises.
Again, this is a error programmers make, i.e assuming all users run the latest version of Firefox, read instructions on screen before entering data etc...
What are the data entry points?
In my opinion, these would be all government offices and facilities, including remote chief's camp's. I come from the slopes of mount Kenya, a relatively well to do region, and in some of the interiors, chief's offices are just mabati sheds without even a typewriter, leave alone a computer. How bad is it in NEP?
Suppose one is in an area where they have to climb a tree to access mobile network signal?
However, we are asking the right questions. Given these operating conditions, we should then put in a core requirement, that the solution should be useable on mobile phones with or without internet.
*
If the human brain were so simple that we could understand it, we would be so simple that we couldn't. - Emerson M. Pugh
*
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@Kiti i totally agree me bad, not heard does not mean does not happen. Was just thinking how much we would all save if this system was in place. We would not need to do a costly population census every other year and wait another yr to find out the result. Just looked at the resent census and saw an interesting fact only 3.6% of the population has a computer and 67% are rural dwellers so @peter i agree we need to think how we give the majority the service that we are thinking about. Could not find the % of the population that have mains power. As a parting shot i think getting into the system early would benefit both the government and we in terms of planning and access to information. -- * If the human brain were so simple that we could understand it, we would be so simple that we couldn't. - Emerson M. Pugh *
I dont like the thought -- That is like the beginning of 666 - the number of the beast !!! [?][?] Which is used to identify you like everywhere; without which; you cannot shop; access money; nor access food !!!
Maybe, just maybe, social media is the mark of the beast :-)
@Odhiambo, see my opinions inline. On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 11:35 AM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>wrote:
On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 10:50, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com> wrote:
I did.
1. Stop thinking about the technology at this point, you are just wasting time which could be better used *designing the solution*. Note that technology just implements part of the solution, its not the solution in and by itself.
True, but we are looking at a the solution from a technology point of view.
Ok. I just wanted to point out programmers, me guilty, tend to look at a problem *only *from the perspective of technology, thus predisposing the solution for failure, due to lack of consideration of the other perspectives of the solution, i.e. human user perspective, operating environment perspective etc.
1. Solve the human factor sub-problem; what privacy concerns will such a solution raise? How will each of them be solved?
What privacy are people talking about here? What is it that you have that is associated with the govt that you think is still private?
The govt already has a lot of data on any citizen, but as it stand right now, most of it sits in paper based system or non integrated computer based systems. This is a blessing in disguise in that someone who wants to get my KRA and land transfer data would have to hack into KRA system AND walk to ardhi house to get my land transfer data (as an example). My point: the lack of a central system makes it harder for any person to compile a complete profile of Peter. Note, makes it harder, not impossible. A central system with all my data is an easier target for authorized or otherwise access.
1. Some parts of Kenya have no electricity, leave alone internet; how will those people access the solution?
Electricity is not a limitation. Terminals can run on rechargable
batteries, just like phones. Electricity is never more than 10km away even at those places without it.
Exactly! Now we thinking of the other perspectives, the operating environment! Based on what I have watched on NTV Country Edition, some parts of this country are quite far from "civilization", probably more than 10KM. So how do we make sure the people there have equal access to the solution?
1. We all know the capability of our govt in terms of security, so how can we improve it to be sufficient for such a undertaking. Having all the citizens data in one 'database' is what I think is called a Honeypot, a target sweet enough to awaken the uber hackers who would make those script kiddies who deface websites seems like idiotic morons
And what will they be looking for? The UID (Universal ID)? They can get
that already.
Based on very limited research, if someone want to perform an identity theft, they would need to know *everything *about you; financial, medical, social, demographical etc. In my opinion, if the govt was to realize full benefits from such a system, they would have to store just about every data about you collected by govt agencies. Pretty soon, the private sector would want to tap into this database for their own processes, and eventually, ALL data about you will be available via ONE universal ID.
All I am saying, the problem is letter A in the alphabet, the database and primary keys are letter T, and theres a whole lot of work to do in between, and this work just happens to the most important.
I thought what was important in the original posting was to have a single
identification that identifies someone across the board - not an ID/No, Passport No, D/L Number, PIN Number - all issued by the govt.
Yes. A single identification, with which a citizen can be identified anywhere in the government.
I personally don't care about the security of those numbers. They are with the govt and anyone who has a way of getting them will get them. My point for supporting the OP was in the context of having a single universal identification number - that can be used to track/identify me everywhere, by govt or by blackhats!
You don't care about the security of those numbers, but some other citizen cares, so how would the solution then cater for these two scenarios?
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. Please consider the environment before printing this email.
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participants (10)
-
Brian L -
Dennis Kioko -
Josh Handley -
Kiti Chigiri -
kris njoroge -
ndungu stephen -
Odhiambo Washington -
Peter Karunyu -
Raymond Rono -
William Warero