Re: [Skunkworks] E-commerce in Kenya
I believe there are two critical issues here for ecommerce to take off esp in Kenya: • Most of these sites require you to have a credit/debit card and from what I can tell, Kenyans are paranoid about these cards and the charges they carry . It would explain why we chase out these persistent credit card sales reps or tell the receptionist to say we're not in the office even when its obvious we are. • There's the almighty fear - if I buy something on ebay, how do I have the assurance of it being delivered to me untampered. Remember most of us grew in the era where the only means to get something from abroad was either a relative coming back to the country or post. As for post, there was that rumour of airport staff 'stealing' your stuff and it never gets to you. As much as that sounds old skul, it could still linger in one's mind. • There's the complexity of what happens if I buy an item say a laptop and then it gets here broken, so you have to ship it back (at own costs) then ship it back again....etc etc Alex ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joram Mwinamo" <joram.mwinamo@gmail.com> To: "Skunkworks Mailing List" <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 4:55:52 PM GMT +03:00 Iraq Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] E-commerce in Kenya I guess companies like verisign and other verification companies abroad helped to build confidence around usage of internet to buy goods. However, please note that western markets are mainly trust based hence people can trust ebay and other e commerce sites of similar nature. So can someone start a verification business in kenya? or is there one? Also what are CCK/Central bank regulations around this matter? On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 4:45 PM, Albert Mucunguzi < ed@pctechmagazine.com > wrote: John, I think this is a very interesting discussion. I am from Uganda, so I guess I can only give a Ugandan perspective... I don't believe we have the "critical mass" of people online anywhere in Africa, save for South Africa may be. If you compare the ratio of internet users to the total population, you realise there is a really big problem. Worse still, most of our people use internet "just to check mail". If you talk to Internet cafés in Uganda, the largest number of their customers pay UGX 500 (which is the charge for 20minutes on average). And visit mainly one website: yahoo.com . Of course that is changing with the growth of Facebook. But the whole point is, people greatly relate internet to mail. So even while the payment methods have come, and number of internet users grown, we're still miles away. The other important point I must not leave out is that people do not trust the internet. There are lots of crooks online, so people fear being victims of cyber crime. Over to you! Albert Mucunguzi PC Tech Magazine www.albertmucunguzi.com www.pctechmagazine.com From: John Maina Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 4:30 PM To: Skunkworks forum Subject: [Skunkworks] E-commerce in Kenya I used to hypothesis that the reason we don't have a vibrant e-commerce infrastructure in Kenya was the lack of payment solutions and lack of "critical mass" of people online..These two problems have been solved yet we still have nothing on the ground. So my question to y'all experts is what is hindering e-commerce in Kenya? John _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co..ke -- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- God is not an excuse for lack of discipline -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same.. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others. _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
I second albert, there is simply no critical mass. which is why ecommerce in ea should be export tailored. On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 5:12 PM, Alex Mwega <alex@ims.co.ke> wrote:
I believe there are two critical issues here for ecommerce to take off esp in Kenya:
- Most of these sites require you to have a credit/debit card and from what I can tell, Kenyans are paranoid about these cards and the charges they carry. It would explain why we chase out these persistent credit card sales reps or tell the receptionist to say we're not in the office even when its obvious we are. - There's the almighty fear - if I buy something on ebay, how do I have the assurance of it being delivered to me untampered. Remember most of us grew in the era where the only means to get something from abroad was either a relative coming back to the country or post. As for post, there was that rumour of airport staff 'stealing' your stuff and it never gets to you. As much as that sounds old skul, it could still linger in one's mind. - There's the complexity of what happens if I buy an item say a laptop and then it gets here broken, so you have to ship it back (at own costs) then ship it back again....etc etc
Alex
----- Original Message ----- From: "Joram Mwinamo" <joram.mwinamo@gmail.com> To: "Skunkworks Mailing List" <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 4:55:52 PM GMT +03:00 Iraq Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] E-commerce in Kenya
I guess companies like verisign and other verification companies abroad helped to build confidence around usage of internet to buy goods. However, please note that western markets are mainly trust based hence people can trust ebay and other e commerce sites of similar nature.
So can someone start a verification business in kenya? or is there one? Also what are CCK/Central bank regulations around this matter?
On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 4:45 PM, Albert Mucunguzi <ed@pctechmagazine.com>wrote:
John,
I think this is a very interesting discussion. I am from Uganda, so I guess I can only give a Ugandan perspective... I don't believe we have the "critical mass" of people online anywhere in Africa, save for South Africa may be.
If you compare the ratio of internet users to the total population, you realise there is a really big problem. Worse still, most of our people use internet "just to check mail". If you talk to Internet cafés in Uganda, the largest number of their customers pay UGX 500 (which is the charge for 20minutes on average). And visit mainly one website: yahoo.com.
Of course that is changing with the growth of Facebook.
But the whole point is, people greatly relate internet to mail. So even while the payment methods have come, and number of internet users grown, we're still miles away.
The other important point I must not leave out is that people do not trust the internet. There are lots of crooks online, so people fear being victims of cyber crime.
Over to you! Albert Mucunguzi PC Tech Magazine www.albertmucunguzi.com www.pctechmagazine.com
*From:* John Maina <mwasjunior@gmail.com> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 17, 2010 4:30 PM *To:* Skunkworks forum <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Subject:* [Skunkworks] E-commerce in Kenya
I used to hypothesis that the reason we don't have a vibrant e-commerce infrastructure in Kenya was the lack of payment solutions and lack of "critical mass" of people online..These two problems have been solved yet we still have nothing on the ground. So my question to y'all experts is what is hindering e-commerce in Kenya?
John
------------------------------
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-- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- God is not an excuse for lack of discipline -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same.. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.
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Brainiac, As you say there is no critical mass, early adopters will continue making a killing...... quietly. E-Commerce is not only about physical goods. 20% of Kenya's 3.5m Internet users have bought online with a credit/debit card. I say the critical mass is about to explode! -----Original Message----- From: [ Brainiac ] <arebacollins@gmail.com> Reply-to: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] E-commerce in Kenya Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 17:47:38 +0300 I second albert, there is simply no critical mass. which is why ecommerce in ea should be export tailored. On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 5:12 PM, Alex Mwega <alex@ims.co.ke> wrote: I believe there are two critical issues here for ecommerce to take off esp in Kenya: * Most of these sites require you to have a credit/debit card and from what I can tell, Kenyans are paranoid about these cards and the charges they carry. It would explain why we chase out these persistent credit card sales reps or tell the receptionist to say we're not in the office even when its obvious we are. * There's the almighty fear - if I buy something on ebay, how do I have the assurance of it being delivered to me untampered. Remember most of us grew in the era where the only means to get something from abroad was either a relative coming back to the country or post. As for post, there was that rumour of airport staff 'stealing' your stuff and it never gets to you. As much as that sounds old skul, it could still linger in one's mind. * There's the complexity of what happens if I buy an item say a laptop and then it gets here broken, so you have to ship it back (at own costs) then ship it back again....etc etc Alex ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joram Mwinamo" <joram.mwinamo@gmail.com> To: "Skunkworks Mailing List" <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 4:55:52 PM GMT +03:00 Iraq Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] E-commerce in Kenya I guess companies like verisign and other verification companies abroad helped to build confidence around usage of internet to buy goods. However, please note that western markets are mainly trust based hence people can trust ebay and other e commerce sites of similar nature. So can someone start a verification business in kenya? or is there one? Also what are CCK/Central bank regulations around this matter? On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 4:45 PM, Albert Mucunguzi <ed@pctechmagazine.com> wrote: John, I think this is a very interesting discussion. I am from Uganda, so I guess I can only give a Ugandan perspective... I don't believe we have the "critical mass" of people online anywhere in Africa, save for South Africa may be. If you compare the ratio of internet users to the total population, you realise there is a really big problem. Worse still, most of our people use internet "just to check mail". If you talk to Internet cafés in Uganda, the largest number of their customers pay UGX 500 (which is the charge for 20minutes on average). And visit mainly one website: yahoo.com. Of course that is changing with the growth of Facebook. But the whole point is, people greatly relate internet to mail. So even while the payment methods have come, and number of internet users grown, we're still miles away. The other important point I must not leave out is that people do not trust the internet. There are lots of crooks online, so people fear being victims of cyber crime. Over to you! Albert Mucunguzi PC Tech Magazine www.albertmucunguzi.com www.pctechmagazine.com From: John Maina Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 4:30 PM To: Skunkworks forum Subject: [Skunkworks] E-commerce in Kenya I used to hypothesis that the reason we don't have a vibrant e-commerce infrastructure in Kenya was the lack of payment solutions and lack of "critical mass" of people online..These two problems have been solved yet we still have nothing on the ground. So my question to y'all experts is what is hindering e-commerce in Kenya? John ________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co..ke -- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- God is not an excuse for lack of discipline -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same.. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others. _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke -- Posted on 100% recycled electrons _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke -- Regards, Joe Murithi Njeru Linux User: #361092 SIP: joe.njeru@ekiga.net Twitter: http://twitter.com/joenjeru Blog: https://joenjeru.wordpress.com/
20% of Kenya's 3.5m Internet users have bought online with a credit/debit card. Any references?
thanks Haggai. On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 9:12 PM, Haggai Nyang <haggai.nyang@gmail.com>wrote:
20% of Kenya's 3.5m Internet users have bought online with a credit/debit card.
Any references?
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Could it be that we are looking at the "critical mass" question from the wrong perspective? We have more online users than asia tigers such as Singapore, we have $3.6 Billion worth of mobile payments per year (paypal Mobile Global only has $600 million) all this money goes to purchasing goods and Services so why aren't we designing products that these users can actually use? Someone pointed me to Kalahari earlier..I agree its better than what we have in the market..but why do I have to wait 11 working days for a product? @alex mwega: For purchase of goods outside Kenya..paypal and Equity have some interesting stuff in the works.
hi guys, i have been digesting the report initially with sceptism given the figures i got but now that im done, i cant agree with it more, and disagree with joes assertion with regard to critical mass. Here is the raw data: * average internet usage: * daily -> 3.5% Weekly -> 8.5% Monthly -> 13% Ok, now thats straightforward. that means that on average, 13 percent (if youre wondering, ive done the average of the rural and urban usage) of the approximate 4 million users browse the internet once a month, 8.5 percent browse at least four times a month and only 3.5 browse every day. *Internet usage by demographic: * 15-17 years 10 percent. 18 - 24 years 21 percent. 25 - 34 years 19 percent. 35 - 44 years 15 percent. 45 + years 8 percent. Internet usage: here is a sample of thse polled of what they do online. entertainment / games / music 54% social networking 45% email 42 shopping 11 %. Now the questions i ask you based on the report: What proportion of the population here, is : a) banked enough to have means of transaction. b) moneyed enough to buy and sell c) online for long enough to engage in buying and selling and finally, specifically online to buy stuff. my2cnts.... On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 9:39 PM, John Maina <mwasjunior@gmail.com> wrote:
Could it be that we are looking at the "critical mass" question from the wrong perspective? We have more online users than asia tigers such as Singapore, we have $3.6 Billion worth of mobile payments per year (paypal Mobile Global only has $600 million) all this money goes to purchasing goods and Services so why aren't we designing products that these users can actually use? Someone pointed me to Kalahari earlier..I agree its better than what we have in the market..but why do I have to wait 11 working days for a product?
@alex mwega: For purchase of goods outside Kenya..paypal and Equity have some interesting stuff in the works.
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Interesting assessment. Thanks...! From: [ Brainiac ] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 10:02 PM To: Skunkworks Mailing List Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] E-commerce in Kenya hi guys, i have been digesting the report initially with sceptism given the figures i got but now that im done, i cant agree with it more, and disagree with joes assertion with regard to critical mass. Here is the raw data: average internet usage: daily -> 3.5% Weekly -> 8.5% Monthly -> 13% Ok, now thats straightforward. that means that on average, 13 percent (if youre wondering, ive done the average of the rural and urban usage) of the approximate 4 million users browse the internet once a month, 8.5 percent browse at least four times a month and only 3.5 browse every day. Internet usage by demographic:  15-17 years 10 percent. 18 - 24 years 21 percent. 25 - 34 years 19 percent. 35 - 44 years 15 percent. 45 + years 8 percent. Internet usage: here is a sample of thse polled of what they do online. entertainment / games / music 54% social networking 45% email 42 shopping 11 %. Now the questions i ask you based on the report: What proportion of the population here, is : a) banked enough to have means of transaction. b) moneyed enough to buy and sell c) online for long enough to engage in buying and selling and finally, specifically online to buy stuff. my2cnts.... On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 9:39 PM, John Maina <mwasjunior@gmail.com> wrote:  Could it be that we are looking at the "critical mass" question from the wrong perspective? We have more online users than asia tigers such as Singapore, we have $3.6 Billion worth of mobile payments per year (paypal Mobile Global only has $600 million) all this money goes to purchasing goods and Services so why aren't we designing products that these users can actually use? Someone pointed me to Kalahari earlier..I agree its better than what we have in the market..but why do I have to wait 11 working days for a product?  @alex mwega: For purchase of goods outside Kenya..paypal and Equity have some interesting stuff in the works. _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke --  Posted on 100% recycled electrons -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
if youre wondering, ive done the average of the rural and urban usage
Lemme make up some numbers to illustrate why 'average' is an unhelpful number in this discussion: - daily internet usage (cities): 90% - daily internet usage (rural): 10% Average daily internet usage: (90 + 10) / 2 == 50% The average figure (50%) doesn't communicate the reality of these numbers. If you were planning an e-commerce site it helps to know that there is a huge market in the cities, as opposed to a 50% figure that glosses over the differences. In this case, city and rural figures have to be analyzed separately. Calculating the median also won't help much here, it would probably skew the numbers to the lower end (since most internet usage is concentrated in the cities anyway). Interesting discussion! Saidi On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 3:02 PM, [ Brainiac ] <arebacollins@gmail.com>wrote:
* average internet usage: * daily -> 3.5% Weekly -> 8.5% Monthly -> 13%
Ok, now thats straightforward. that means that on average, 13 percent (if youre wondering, ive done the average of the rural and urban usage) of the approximate 4 million users browse the internet once a month, 8.5 percent browse at least four times a month and only 3.5 browse every day. * *
Hello Brainiac, The report is but one source of information. With any business venture you must carry out proper research to come up with a premise on which your business plan will be based on. Please note E-commerce includes payment options like mobile money, direct debit, eft, etc... not just cards. Let me answer your questions using multiple sources of information: a.) Banks A/C in Kenya as at May 2009 - 6.4M = 16% of 40M http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aWjqnCRC39w0&refer=af... Visa Enabled.. conservatively at 40% which is 2.56M cards.(Though Equity has 4M accounts - see below) MPESA A/Cs in Kenya as at January 2010 - 8M = 20% of 40M http://www.moseskemibaro.com/2010/01/16/equity-bank-partners-with-safaricom-... b.) MPESA moved monthly $300 million as at September of 2009. http://mobilepayments.wordpress.com/2010/05/27/comparing-volumes-of-mpesa-ke... If this much is being moved via MPESA... c.) How much time do you need to make a sale on an online shop? Check these stats from Opera Mini about Africa - http://www.opera.com/smw/2010/06/ "Kenya leads the top 12 countries of the region in page views per user, with each user browsing 639 pages on average each month." "The top 12 countries using Opera Mini in Africa are South Africa, Nigeria, Kenya, Egypt, Ghana, Sudan, Libya, Tanzania, Ivory Coast, Namibia, Mozambique and Mauritius." If these numbers fail to sway you then I'm afraid nothing will. I'm taking my chances and have been actively developing e-commerce solutions for my clients and myself. I'm not going to wait for Kibaki to say 'Ready,Steady Go'. FYI: http://www.capitalfm.co.ke/business/Kenyabusiness/IT-framework-needed-for-EA... -----Original Message----- From: [ Brainiac ] <arebacollins@gmail.com> Reply-to: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] E-commerce in Kenya Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 22:02:18 +0300 hi guys, i have been digesting the report initially with sceptism given the figures i got but now that im done, i cant agree with it more, and disagree with joes assertion with regard to critical mass. Here is the raw data: average internet usage: daily -> 3.5% Weekly -> 8.5% Monthly -> 13% Ok, now thats straightforward. that means that on average, 13 percent (if youre wondering, ive done the average of the rural and urban usage) of the approximate 4 million users browse the internet once a month, 8.5 percent browse at least four times a month and only 3.5 browse every day. Internet usage by demographic: 15-17 years 10 percent. 18 - 24 years 21 percent. 25 - 34 years 19 percent. 35 - 44 years 15 percent. 45 + years 8 percent. Internet usage: here is a sample of thse polled of what they do online. entertainment / games / music 54% social networking 45% email 42 shopping 11 %. Now the questions i ask you based on the report: What proportion of the population here, is : a) banked enough to have means of transaction. b) moneyed enough to buy and sell c) online for long enough to engage in buying and selling and finally, specifically online to buy stuff. my2cnts.... On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 9:39 PM, John Maina <mwasjunior@gmail.com> wrote: Could it be that we are looking at the "critical mass" question from the wrong perspective? We have more online users than asia tigers such as Singapore, we have $3.6 Billion worth of mobile payments per year (paypal Mobile Global only has $600 million) all this money goes to purchasing goods and Services so why aren't we designing products that these users can actually use? Someone pointed me to Kalahari earlier..I agree its better than what we have in the market..but why do I have to wait 11 working days for a product? @alex mwega: For purchase of goods outside Kenya..paypal and Equity have some interesting stuff in the works. _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke -- Posted on 100% recycled electrons _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke -- Regards, Joe Murithi Njeru Linux User: #361092 SIP: joe.njeru@ekiga.net Twitter: http://twitter.com/joenjeru Blog: https://joenjeru.wordpress.com/
I think publicizing/advertising these services would make them "compelling enough". When we talk of money transfer, M-PESA and Zap suddenly pop up with the least effort. However, when we talk about e-commerce in Kenya, I find myself "trying to remember" who I last heard provided the service. It appears to me (note, *to me*) that these local e-commerce showcase what they have to offer during IT expos and such events and then vanish into oblivion only for a new one to mushroom much later and also vanish the same way the previous one did. We do not see full page ads of these services in the dailies as we see for Safaricom/Zain etc. Of course cost is definitely a factor, but IMHO, I think that these are at least some, if not the main contributing factors to the current state of affairs as far as e-commerce is concerned in Kenya. On 17 August 2010 23:06, Joe Murithi Njeru <joe.njeru@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Brainiac,
The report is but one source of information. With any business venture you must carry out proper research to come up with a premise on which your business plan will be based on.
Please note E-commerce includes payment options like mobile money, direct debit, eft, etc... not just cards.
Let me answer your questions using multiple sources of information:
a.) Banks A/C in Kenya as at May 2009 - 6.4M = 16% of 40M
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aWjqnCRC39w0&refer=af... Visa Enabled.. conservatively at 40% which is 2.56M cards.(Though Equity has 4M accounts - see below)
MPESA A/Cs in Kenya as at January 2010 - 8M = 20% of 40M
http://www.moseskemibaro.com/2010/01/16/equity-bank-partners-with-safaricom-...
b.) MPESA moved monthly $300 million as at September of 2009.
http://mobilepayments.wordpress.com/2010/05/27/comparing-volumes-of-mpesa-ke... If this much is being moved via MPESA...
c.) How much time do you need to make a sale on an online shop? Check these stats from Opera Mini about Africa - http://www.opera.com/smw/2010/06/
"Kenya leads the top 12 countries of the region in page views per user, with each user browsing 639 pages on average each month."
"The top 12 countries using Opera Mini in Africa are South Africa, Nigeria, Kenya, Egypt, Ghana, Sudan, Libya, Tanzania, Ivory Coast, Namibia, Mozambique and Mauritius."
If these numbers fail to sway you then I'm afraid nothing will.
I'm taking my chances and have been actively developing e-commerce solutions for my clients and myself. I'm not going to wait for Kibaki to say 'Ready,Steady Go'.
FYI:
http://www.capitalfm.co.ke/business/Kenyabusiness/IT-framework-needed-for-EA...
-----Original Message----- From: [ Brainiac ] <arebacollins@gmail.com> Reply-to: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] E-commerce in Kenya Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 22:02:18 +0300
hi guys, i have been digesting the report initially with sceptism given the figures i got but now that im done, i cant agree with it more, and disagree with joes assertion with regard to critical mass.
Here is the raw data:
average internet usage: daily -> 3.5% Weekly -> 8.5% Monthly -> 13%
Ok, now thats straightforward. that means that on average, 13 percent (if youre wondering, ive done the average of the rural and urban usage) of the approximate 4 million users browse the internet once a month, 8.5 percent browse at least four times a month and only 3.5 browse every day.
Internet usage by demographic: 15-17 years 10 percent. 18 - 24 years 21 percent. 25 - 34 years 19 percent. 35 - 44 years 15 percent. 45 + years 8 percent.
Internet usage: here is a sample of thse polled of what they do online. entertainment / games / music 54% social networking 45% email 42 shopping 11 %.
Now the questions i ask you based on the report: What proportion of the population here, is : a) banked enough to have means of transaction. b) moneyed enough to buy and sell c) online for long enough to engage in buying and selling and finally, specifically online to buy stuff.
my2cnts....
On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 9:39 PM, John Maina <mwasjunior@gmail.com> wrote: Could it be that we are looking at the "critical mass" question from the wrong perspective? We have more online users than asia tigers such as Singapore, we have $3.6 Billion worth of mobile payments per year (paypal Mobile Global only has $600 million) all this money goes to purchasing goods and Services so why aren't we designing products that these users can actually use? Someone pointed me to Kalahari earlier..I agree its better than what we have in the market..but why do I have to wait 11 working days for a product?
@alex mwega: For purchase of goods outside Kenya..paypal and Equity have some interesting stuff in the works.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Posted on 100% recycled electrons _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards,
Joe Murithi Njeru Linux User: #361092 SIP: joe.njeru@ekiga.net Twitter: http://twitter.com/joenjeru Blog: https://joenjeru.wordpress.com/
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
Thanks for the very intelligent responses. Now my questions really come out: 1: What qualifies as critical mass on the ecommerce industry? 2: What turnover do we have in kenya / e.africa purely from internet sales? 3: what proportion of that is local B2B or B2C 4: What Internet business models have been tested and are working in e.a.? 5: what differences exist between the West and E.Africa? Sometimes back, two or three years ago i was involved in a research on an appropriate business model for ecommerce in the region. I may not remember much in terms of references but i do remember this, which up to date still holds as true: 1: Internet access mode matters : USofA pioneered dial up, so most of their users are on fixed line. 2: Europe got in when the speeds were considerably fast on DSL and its variants, still fixed on location, 3: Asia got into the latest technologies, still maximizing on fixed lines but improved DSL and fiber. 4: Africa's watershed is mobile. This makes doing business in Africa unique and different as compared to the west. It will be about M-Commerce more than it is Ecommerce. Look at the numbers guys..... On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 11:06 PM, Joe Murithi Njeru <joe.njeru@gmail.com>wrote:
Hello Brainiac,
The report is but one source of information. With any business venture you must carry out proper research to come up with a premise on which your business plan will be based on.
Please note E-commerce includes payment options like mobile money, direct debit, eft, etc... not just cards.
Let me answer your questions using multiple sources of information:
a.) Banks A/C in Kenya as at May 2009 - 6.4M = 16% of 40M
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aWjqnCRC39w0&refer=af... Visa Enabled.. conservatively at 40% which is 2.56M cards.(Though Equity has 4M accounts - see below)
MPESA A/Cs in Kenya as at January 2010 - 8M = 20% of 40M
http://www.moseskemibaro.com/2010/01/16/equity-bank-partners-with-safaricom-...
b.) MPESA moved monthly $300 million as at September of 2009.
http://mobilepayments.wordpress.com/2010/05/27/comparing-volumes-of-mpesa-ke... If this much is being moved via MPESA...
c.) How much time do you need to make a sale on an online shop? Check these stats from Opera Mini about Africa - http://www.opera.com/smw/2010/06/
"Kenya leads the top 12 countries of the region in page views per user, with each user browsing 639 pages on average each month."
"The top 12 countries using Opera Mini in Africa are South Africa, Nigeria, Kenya, Egypt, Ghana, Sudan, Libya, Tanzania, Ivory Coast, Namibia, Mozambique and Mauritius."
If these numbers fail to sway you then I'm afraid nothing will.
I'm taking my chances and have been actively developing e-commerce solutions for my clients and myself. I'm not going to wait for Kibaki to say 'Ready,Steady Go'.
FYI:
http://www.capitalfm.co.ke/business/Kenyabusiness/IT-framework-needed-for-EA...
-----Original Message----- From: [ Brainiac ] <arebacollins@gmail.com> Reply-to: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] E-commerce in Kenya Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 22:02:18 +0300
hi guys, i have been digesting the report initially with sceptism given the figures i got but now that im done, i cant agree with it more, and disagree with joes assertion with regard to critical mass.
Here is the raw data:
average internet usage: daily -> 3.5% Weekly -> 8.5% Monthly -> 13%
Ok, now thats straightforward. that means that on average, 13 percent (if youre wondering, ive done the average of the rural and urban usage) of the approximate 4 million users browse the internet once a month, 8.5 percent browse at least four times a month and only 3.5 browse every day.
Internet usage by demographic: 15-17 years 10 percent. 18 - 24 years 21 percent. 25 - 34 years 19 percent. 35 - 44 years 15 percent. 45 + years 8 percent.
Internet usage: here is a sample of thse polled of what they do online. entertainment / games / music 54% social networking 45% email 42 shopping 11 %.
Now the questions i ask you based on the report: What proportion of the population here, is : a) banked enough to have means of transaction. b) moneyed enough to buy and sell c) online for long enough to engage in buying and selling and finally, specifically online to buy stuff.
my2cnts....
On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 9:39 PM, John Maina <mwasjunior@gmail.com> wrote: Could it be that we are looking at the "critical mass" question from the wrong perspective? We have more online users than asia tigers such as Singapore, we have $3.6 Billion worth of mobile payments per year (paypal Mobile Global only has $600 million) all this money goes to purchasing goods and Services so why aren't we designing products that these users can actually use? Someone pointed me to Kalahari earlier..I agree its better than what we have in the market..but why do I have to wait 11 working days for a product?
@alex mwega: For purchase of goods outside Kenya..paypal and Equity have some interesting stuff in the works.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Posted on 100% recycled electrons _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards,
Joe Murithi Njeru Linux User: #361092 SIP: joe.njeru@ekiga.net Twitter: http://twitter.com/joenjeru Blog: https://joenjeru.wordpress.com/
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Posted on 100% recycled electrons
This makes doing business in Africa unique and different as compared to the west. It will be about M-Commerce more than it is Ecommerce. Look at the numbers guys.....
I agree with that 1,000,000% :)
On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 11:06 PM, Joe Murithi Njeru <joe.njeru@gmail.com>wrote:
Hello Brainiac,
The report is but one source of information. With any business venture you must carry out proper research to come up with a premise on which your business plan will be based on.
Please note E-commerce includes payment options like mobile money, direct debit, eft, etc... not just cards.
Let me answer your questions using multiple sources of information:
a.) Banks A/C in Kenya as at May 2009 - 6.4M = 16% of 40M
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aWjqnCRC39w0&refer=af... Visa Enabled.. conservatively at 40% which is 2.56M cards.(Though Equity has 4M accounts - see below)
MPESA A/Cs in Kenya as at January 2010 - 8M = 20% of 40M
http://www.moseskemibaro.com/2010/01/16/equity-bank-partners-with-safaricom-...
b.) MPESA moved monthly $300 million as at September of 2009.
http://mobilepayments.wordpress.com/2010/05/27/comparing-volumes-of-mpesa-ke... If this much is being moved via MPESA...
c.) How much time do you need to make a sale on an online shop? Check these stats from Opera Mini about Africa - http://www.opera.com/smw/2010/06/
"Kenya leads the top 12 countries of the region in page views per user, with each user browsing 639 pages on average each month."
"The top 12 countries using Opera Mini in Africa are South Africa, Nigeria, Kenya, Egypt, Ghana, Sudan, Libya, Tanzania, Ivory Coast, Namibia, Mozambique and Mauritius."
If these numbers fail to sway you then I'm afraid nothing will.
I'm taking my chances and have been actively developing e-commerce solutions for my clients and myself. I'm not going to wait for Kibaki to say 'Ready,Steady Go'.
FYI:
http://www.capitalfm.co.ke/business/Kenyabusiness/IT-framework-needed-for-EA...
-----Original Message----- From: [ Brainiac ] <arebacollins@gmail.com> Reply-to: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] E-commerce in Kenya Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 22:02:18 +0300
hi guys, i have been digesting the report initially with sceptism given the figures i got but now that im done, i cant agree with it more, and disagree with joes assertion with regard to critical mass.
Here is the raw data:
average internet usage: daily -> 3.5% Weekly -> 8.5% Monthly -> 13%
Ok, now thats straightforward. that means that on average, 13 percent (if youre wondering, ive done the average of the rural and urban usage) of the approximate 4 million users browse the internet once a month, 8.5 percent browse at least four times a month and only 3.5 browse every day.
Internet usage by demographic: 15-17 years 10 percent. 18 - 24 years 21 percent. 25 - 34 years 19 percent. 35 - 44 years 15 percent. 45 + years 8 percent.
Internet usage: here is a sample of thse polled of what they do online. entertainment / games / music 54% social networking 45% email 42 shopping 11 %.
Now the questions i ask you based on the report: What proportion of the population here, is : a) banked enough to have means of transaction. b) moneyed enough to buy and sell c) online for long enough to engage in buying and selling and finally, specifically online to buy stuff.
my2cnts....
On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 9:39 PM, John Maina <mwasjunior@gmail.com> wrote: Could it be that we are looking at the "critical mass" question from the wrong perspective? We have more online users than asia tigers such as Singapore, we have $3.6 Billion worth of mobile payments per year (paypal Mobile Global only has $600 million) all this money goes to purchasing goods and Services so why aren't we designing products that these users can actually use? Someone pointed me to Kalahari earlier..I agree its better than what we have in the market..but why do I have to wait 11 working days for a product?
@alex mwega: For purchase of goods outside Kenya..paypal and Equity have some interesting stuff in the works.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Posted on 100% recycled electrons _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards,
Joe Murithi Njeru Linux User: #361092 SIP: joe.njeru@ekiga.net Twitter: http://twitter.com/joenjeru Blog: https://joenjeru.wordpress.com/
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Posted on 100% recycled electrons
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
and on a totally OT note, here is how you would need to be inorder to make inroads into ecommerce within africa: http://bit.ly/9FgrD1 enjoy. On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 11:37 PM, Simon Mbuthia <simon.mbuthia@gmail.com>wrote:
This makes doing business in Africa unique and different as compared to the
west. It will be about M-Commerce more than it is Ecommerce. Look at the numbers guys.....
I agree with that 1,000,000% :)
On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 11:06 PM, Joe Murithi Njeru <joe.njeru@gmail.com
wrote:
Hello Brainiac,
The report is but one source of information. With any business venture you must carry out proper research to come up with a premise on which your business plan will be based on.
Please note E-commerce includes payment options like mobile money, direct debit, eft, etc... not just cards.
Let me answer your questions using multiple sources of information:
a.) Banks A/C in Kenya as at May 2009 - 6.4M = 16% of 40M
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aWjqnCRC39w0&refer=af... Visa Enabled.. conservatively at 40% which is 2.56M cards.(Though Equity has 4M accounts - see below)
MPESA A/Cs in Kenya as at January 2010 - 8M = 20% of 40M
http://www.moseskemibaro.com/2010/01/16/equity-bank-partners-with-safaricom-...
b.) MPESA moved monthly $300 million as at September of 2009.
http://mobilepayments.wordpress.com/2010/05/27/comparing-volumes-of-mpesa-ke... If this much is being moved via MPESA...
c.) How much time do you need to make a sale on an online shop? Check these stats from Opera Mini about Africa - http://www.opera.com/smw/2010/06/
"Kenya leads the top 12 countries of the region in page views per user, with each user browsing 639 pages on average each month."
"The top 12 countries using Opera Mini in Africa are South Africa, Nigeria, Kenya, Egypt, Ghana, Sudan, Libya, Tanzania, Ivory Coast, Namibia, Mozambique and Mauritius."
If these numbers fail to sway you then I'm afraid nothing will.
I'm taking my chances and have been actively developing e-commerce solutions for my clients and myself. I'm not going to wait for Kibaki to say 'Ready,Steady Go'.
FYI:
http://www.capitalfm.co.ke/business/Kenyabusiness/IT-framework-needed-for-EA...
-----Original Message----- From: [ Brainiac ] <arebacollins@gmail.com> Reply-to: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] E-commerce in Kenya Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 22:02:18 +0300
hi guys, i have been digesting the report initially with sceptism given the figures i got but now that im done, i cant agree with it more, and disagree with joes assertion with regard to critical mass.
Here is the raw data:
average internet usage: daily -> 3.5% Weekly -> 8.5% Monthly -> 13%
Ok, now thats straightforward. that means that on average, 13 percent (if youre wondering, ive done the average of the rural and urban usage) of the approximate 4 million users browse the internet once a month, 8.5 percent browse at least four times a month and only 3.5 browse every day.
Internet usage by demographic: 15-17 years 10 percent. 18 - 24 years 21 percent. 25 - 34 years 19 percent. 35 - 44 years 15 percent. 45 + years 8 percent.
Internet usage: here is a sample of thse polled of what they do online. entertainment / games / music 54% social networking 45% email 42 shopping 11 %.
Now the questions i ask you based on the report: What proportion of the population here, is : a) banked enough to have means of transaction. b) moneyed enough to buy and sell c) online for long enough to engage in buying and selling and finally, specifically online to buy stuff.
my2cnts....
On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 9:39 PM, John Maina <mwasjunior@gmail.com> wrote: Could it be that we are looking at the "critical mass" question from the wrong perspective? We have more online users than asia tigers such as Singapore, we have $3.6 Billion worth of mobile payments per year (paypal Mobile Global only has $600 million) all this money goes to purchasing goods and Services so why aren't we designing products that these users can actually use? Someone pointed me to Kalahari earlier..I agree its better than what we have in the market..but why do I have to wait 11 working days for a product?
@alex mwega: For purchase of goods outside Kenya..paypal and Equity have some interesting stuff in the works.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
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@Simon Mbuthia..I think what you are identifying is an opportunity..use existing reliable couriers akamba/G4S/ 2nK etc to build a reliable delivery system across the country..leverage warehouse facility of companies like Nakumatt/Tuskys etc for storage..use post office/supermarket outlets for delivery..maybe it would call for a lot of cordination but its totally possible...If garbage companies can do door to door "delivery" then I think all these brilliant minds can come up with delivery channels that work.
Ill add my comments as they come from my mind (its a while back). Here are some critical factors we need to consider: (im actually thinking a different well titled thread would help here). 1: Value Proposition: For an internet business to thrive, it has to offer or at lease be percieved to offer value beyond what is currently the norm. People wont just resort to ecommerce if for instance in their opinions it is cumbersome or riskier than just walking to the shop and getting what they want. which means the goods you intend to sell must be: a: understood (the customer knows what it is, how it looks, what a good / bad one looks like ...e.t.c b: better prices: price here being a sum total of convinience, risk and actual pricing. c: available: no one loves buying an out of stock product and then waiting you to get it from ebay. An example we found interesting and spot on in terms of value proposition was mamamikes.com, the target market knew the product, appreciated the convinience. more input coming. On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 11:48 PM, John Maina <mwasjunior@gmail.com> wrote:
@Simon Mbuthia..I think what you are identifying is an opportunity..use existing reliable couriers akamba/G4S/ 2nK etc to build a reliable delivery system across the country..leverage warehouse facility of companies like Nakumatt/Tuskys etc for storage..use post office/supermarket outlets for delivery..maybe it would call for a lot of cordination but its totally possible...If garbage companies can do door to door "delivery" then I think all these brilliant minds can come up with delivery channels that work.
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Interesting to see how the new move by PayPal changes this discussion.
IMHO I would say that the biggest constraint is one of *RELEVANCE* What do I mean? Basically if a product or service is not relevant to the community it is supposed to serve, it will have a very/relatively limited takeup. If we expect our local community to automagically respond to the same kinds of products/services delivered in western markets - without making an adequate asessment of what their true needs are, then we on a "push" campaign that will require a hell of a lot of effort to gain traction - or credence. However, in scenarios where the product/service meets a particular "relevant" need in the marketplace - then I believe that technology enabling the ease of access to that service or product will be well accepted and embraced. Take a look at the m-pesa/DSTV integration - how many people opt to use m-pesa to pay for their subscriptions simply because they want to avoid the hassle of commuting to the service centre and joining the burgeoning queues? If something as simple as a digital subscription (accompanied by digital delivery) was available for some of the popular magazines (e.g. "Passion" for the ladies, which I understand is sold out on the streets within days of release) I'm sure we'd be able to point at "relevant" instances of e-commerce at work. my two cents, Mblayo On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 5:11 PM, John Maina <mwasjunior@gmail.com> wrote:
Interesting to see how the new move by PayPal changes this discussion. _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
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-- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: blongwe@gmail.com cell: + 254 722 518 744 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com
I agree with Brian's views on value preposition. Many people who want to leverage on e-commerce dont have knowledge in product management. You need to create first a) Superior Perceived Value (State where customers perceive the product gives a net value more positive than its alternatives.) b) Superior Actual Value (State where the product factually gives customers a net value more positive than its alternatives.) Suppose I want to buy a book online do I go to barnes & noble or ebay.Or do I buy from a guy from skunkworks e.g www.kamaubooks.co.ke NB: The Perceived Value-is a measure of the value preposition (Implicit promise a product holds for customers to deliver a fixed combination of gains in time, cost and status.) On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 5:11 PM, John Maina <mwasjunior@gmail.com> wrote:
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Get the Synovate Digital Divide report of 2009 you can get a link at my blog post -> http://blog.zilojo.com/2010/03/synovates-kenya-digital-study-report/ -----Original Message----- From: Haggai Nyang <haggai.nyang@gmail.com> To: joe.njeru@gmail.com, Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] E-commerce in Kenya Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 21:12:35 +0300 20% of Kenya's 3.5m Internet users have bought online with a credit/debit card. Any references? -- Regards, Joe Murithi Njeru Linux User: #361092 SIP: joe.njeru@ekiga.net Twitter: http://twitter.com/joenjeru Blog: https://joenjeru.wordpress.com/
For E-Commerce in Kenya, I think it is very possible; its just the “fears” that people have about electronic transacting. With more than 10 million on mpesa which I think can be carried to e-commerce it’s here, safaricom just need to release a payment gateway with an api any vendor can code to and that will be a start... As most of you know, when you want to computerise a process in a company the first people say oooh security. I have been a victim of this several times, being in the financial sector field. People say waaah people will steal from this system. But if you ask them *how* people will steal, or to give you a way that is possible they say they don’t know. Fear of the unknown; to me its the same, let a computer fly a space shuttle into orbit or let people do it manually, both have their risks, the pilot could pass out, the computer could crash; or have a mattress account or a computerised one; mattress you could get thugs to steal, computerised one you can get hackers to steal, if you ask me its more of understanding the risks and working to minimize them, just as it is done in the old days; to avoid thugs, add a metallic grill or safe, to avoid hackers, code cleverly, add firewalls. So back to e-commerce, the main hindrance if you ask me, is the typical African fear of the unknown. It’s more of the “never let your child watch westernized tv or they will die of aids” or “tech and equip your child how to handle it” scenario. Again my thoughts, we need to get over it! Its coming one way or another. Either arm yourselves or get out of the way! Chris: +257 76 91 83 83 From: [ Brainiac ] [mailto:arebacollins@gmail.com] Sent: 17 August 2010 4:48 p To: Skunkworks Mailing List Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] E-commerce in Kenya I second albert, there is simply no critical mass. which is why ecommerce in ea should be export tailored. On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 5:12 PM, Alex Mwega <alex@ims.co.ke> wrote: I believe there are two critical issues here for ecommerce to take off esp in Kenya: * Most of these sites require you to have a credit/debit card and from what I can tell, Kenyans are paranoid about these cards and the charges they carry. It would explain why we chase out these persistent credit card sales reps or tell the receptionist to say we're not in the office even when its obvious we are. * There's the almighty fear - if I buy something on ebay, how do I have the assurance of it being delivered to me untampered. Remember most of us grew in the era where the only means to get something from abroad was either a relative coming back to the country or post. As for post, there was that rumour of airport staff 'stealing' your stuff and it never gets to you. As much as that sounds old skul, it could still linger in one's mind. * There's the complexity of what happens if I buy an item say a laptop and then it gets here broken, so you have to ship it back (at own costs) then ship it back again....etc etc Alex ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joram Mwinamo" <joram.mwinamo@gmail.com> To: "Skunkworks Mailing List" <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 4:55:52 PM GMT +03:00 Iraq Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] E-commerce in Kenya I guess companies like verisign and other verification companies abroad helped to build confidence around usage of internet to buy goods. However, please note that western markets are mainly trust based hence people can trust ebay and other e commerce sites of similar nature. So can someone start a verification business in kenya? or is there one? Also what are CCK/Central bank regulations around this matter? On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 4:45 PM, Albert Mucunguzi <ed@pctechmagazine.com> wrote: John, I think this is a very interesting discussion. I am from Uganda, so I guess I can only give a Ugandan perspective... I don't believe we have the "critical mass" of people online anywhere in Africa, save for South Africa may be. If you compare the ratio of internet users to the total population, you realise there is a really big problem. Worse still, most of our people use internet "just to check mail". If you talk to Internet cafés in Uganda, the largest number of their customers pay UGX 500 (which is the charge for 20minutes on average). And visit mainly one website: yahoo.com. Of course that is changing with the growth of Facebook. But the whole point is, people greatly relate internet to mail. So even while the payment methods have come, and number of internet users grown, we're still miles away. The other important point I must not leave out is that people do not trust the internet. There are lots of crooks online, so people fear being victims of cyber crime. Over to you! Albert Mucunguzi PC Tech Magazine www.albertmucunguzi.com www.pctechmagazine.com From: John <mailto:mwasjunior@gmail.com> Maina Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 4:30 PM To: Skunkworks forum <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Subject: [Skunkworks] E-commerce in Kenya I used to hypothesis that the reason we don't have a vibrant e-commerce infrastructure in Kenya was the lack of payment solutions and lack of "critical mass" of people online..These two problems have been solved yet we still have nothing on the ground. So my question to y'all experts is what is hindering e-commerce in Kenya? John _____ _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... <http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1fbjAwOUE&hl=en> &hl=en ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24 <http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94> &t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... <http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1fbjAwOUE&hl=en> &hl=en ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24 <http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94> &t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co..ke <http://my.co.ke> -- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- God is not an excuse for lack of discipline -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same.. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others. _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... <http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1fbjAwOUE&hl=en> &hl=en ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24 <http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94> &t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... <http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1fbjAwOUE&hl=en> &hl=en ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24 <http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94> &t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke -- Posted on 100% recycled electrons
I would like to share my thoughts on what is fuelling these fears: lack of structures in place to ensure that these anomalies do not occur. When a parcel that you are expecting disappears at the post office, what to you do? To whom do you report the incident and what do they normally do? (Forget what the law says they should do - there are many things that happen in this country which ought not to happen in the first place but it's like the people who should care don't). In this kind of scenario, getting some things going becomes very difficult - perhaps even impossible. Me thots On 17 August 2010 23:24, Chris | Ronell Africa <chris@ronellafrica.com>wrote:
For E-Commerce in Kenya, I think it is very possible; its just the “fears” that people have about electronic transacting. With more than 10 million on mpesa which I think can be carried to e-commerce it’s here, safaricom just need to release a payment gateway with an api any vendor can code to and that will be a start...
As most of you know, when you want to computerise a process in a company the first people say oooh security. I have been a victim of this several times, being in the financial sector field. People say waaah people will steal from this system. But if you ask them **how** people will steal, or to give you a way that is possible they say they don’t know.
Fear of the unknown; to me its the same, let a computer fly a space shuttle into orbit or let people do it manually, both have their risks, the pilot could pass out, the computer could crash; or have a mattress account or a computerised one; mattress you could get thugs to steal, computerised one you can get hackers to steal, if you ask me its more of understanding the risks and working to minimize them, just as it is done in the old days; to avoid thugs, add a metallic grill or safe, to avoid hackers, code cleverly, add firewalls.
So back to e-commerce, the main hindrance if you ask me, is the typical African fear of the unknown. It’s more of the “never let your child watch westernized tv or they will die of aids” or “tech and equip your child how to handle it” scenario.
Again my thoughts, we need to get over it! Its coming one way or another. Either arm yourselves or get out of the way!
Chris: +257 76 91 83 83
*From:* [ Brainiac ] [mailto:arebacollins@gmail.com] *Sent:* 17 August 2010 4:48 p *To:* Skunkworks Mailing List
*Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] E-commerce in Kenya
I second albert, there is simply no critical mass.
which is why ecommerce in ea should be export tailored.
On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 5:12 PM, Alex Mwega <alex@ims.co.ke> wrote:
I believe there are two critical issues here for ecommerce to take off esp in Kenya:
- Most of these sites require you to have a credit/debit card and from what I can tell, Kenyans are paranoid about these cards and the charges they carry. It would explain why we chase out these persistent credit card sales reps or tell the receptionist to say we're not in the office even when its obvious we are. - There's the almighty fear - if I buy something on ebay, how do I have the assurance of it being delivered to me untampered. Remember most of us grew in the era where the only means to get something from abroad was either a relative coming back to the country or post. As for post, there was that rumour of airport staff 'stealing' your stuff and it never gets to you. As much as that sounds old skul, it could still linger in one's mind. - There's the complexity of what happens if I buy an item say a laptop and then it gets here broken, so you have to ship it back (at own costs) then ship it back again....etc etc
Alex
----- Original Message ----- From: "Joram Mwinamo" <joram.mwinamo@gmail.com> To: "Skunkworks Mailing List" <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke>
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 4:55:52 PM GMT +03:00 Iraq Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] E-commerce in Kenya
I guess companies like verisign and other verification companies abroad helped to build confidence around usage of internet to buy goods. However, please note that western markets are mainly trust based hence people can trust ebay and other e commerce sites of similar nature.
So can someone start a verification business in kenya? or is there one? Also what are CCK/Central bank regulations around this matter?
On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 4:45 PM, Albert Mucunguzi <ed@pctechmagazine.com> wrote:
John,
I think this is a very interesting discussion. I am from Uganda, so I guess I can only give a Ugandan perspective... I don't believe we have the "critical mass" of people online anywhere in Africa, save for South Africa may be.
If you compare the ratio of internet users to the total population, you realise there is a really big problem. Worse still, most of our people use internet "just to check mail". If you talk to Internet cafés in Uganda, the largest number of their customers pay UGX 500 (which is the charge for 20minutes on average). And visit mainly one website: yahoo.com.
Of course that is changing with the growth of Facebook.
But the whole point is, people greatly relate internet to mail. So even while the payment methods have come, and number of internet users grown, we're still miles away.
The other important point I must not leave out is that people do not trust the internet. There are lots of crooks online, so people fear being victims of cyber crime.
Over to you!
Albert Mucunguzi
PC Tech Magazine
www.albertmucunguzi.com
www.pctechmagazine.com
*From:* John Maina <mwasjunior@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Tuesday, August 17, 2010 4:30 PM
*To:* Skunkworks forum <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke>
*Subject:* [Skunkworks] E-commerce in Kenya
I used to hypothesis that the reason we don't have a vibrant e-commerce infrastructure in Kenya was the lack of payment solutions and lack of "critical mass" of people online..These two problems have been solved yet we still have nothing on the ground. So my question to y'all experts is what is hindering e-commerce in Kenya?
John ------------------------------
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-- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- God is not an excuse for lack of discipline -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same.. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.
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participants (11)
-
[ Brainiac ] -
Albert Mucunguzi -
Alex Mwega -
Brian Munyao Longwe -
Chris | Ronell Africa -
Haggai Nyang -
Joe Murithi Njeru -
John Maina -
Joseph McDonald -
saidimu apale -
Simon Mbuthia