Suicides at iPad factory in China revealed, Something rotten at Apple's core?
As the iPad is launched in Britain, a special investigation now reveals the full shocking toll of suicides at its Chinese factory. A once pretty 17-year-old lies crippled in a hospital bed two miles from the factory where she worked long, tedious hours checking the screens of Apple iPads for tiny flaws. Her parents brood silently at her bedside. At 8am one morning in March - just 40 days after she began her first job at Apple's main supplier, Foxconn, in southern China - Tian Yu took the decision to leap from her fourth-floor dormitory rather than take her place on the production line. Tian survived but must wonder if she would not have been better off dead. After two weeks in a coma, she woke to find herself paralysed from the waist down, unable to sit up by herself and suffering from fractures and liver and spleen damage.... Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1282481/iPad-factory-suici...
Is this the price to pay for progress? -- Regards, Martin Kamau
Aki, Foxconn assembles products for other companies such a HP, Dell and Cisco. So there is nothing rotten at Apple's core, and even if there was, so will there be something rotten also at HP's, Dell's, Cisco's core. And the cores of all those other companies that assemble their electronics and Foxconn. And so that you know, the suicide rate at Foxconn is less that that of China as a whole. So there is nothing wrong at Foxconn, statistically. Those people at Foxconn are actually less inclined to commit suicide than people in China as a whole. So you see, Foxconn is actually *safer* than China.
@Philip: I don get it at all so you saying a constituent of China is not China or what do you mean, Foxconn so far has to carry the responsibility before the state China did, don take it light brother Life is sacred, and we cry fault of suicide and so we are On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 1:56 PM, Philip Musyoki <pmusyoki@gmail.com> wrote:
Aki,
Foxconn assembles products for other companies such a HP, Dell and Cisco. So there is nothing rotten at Apple's core, and even if there was, so will there be something rotten also at HP's, Dell's, Cisco's core. And the cores of all those other companies that assemble their electronics and Foxconn.
And so that you know, the suicide rate at Foxconn is less that that of China as a whole. So there is nothing wrong at Foxconn, statistically. Those people at Foxconn are actually less inclined to commit suicide than people in China as a whole. So you see, Foxconn is actually *safer* than China.
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Michael, I am just pointing out statistics, publicly available. Sorry if this kind of information upsets you. Life is sacred, but that does not mean suicides will cease to exist.
@philip, seems the Apple divison of Foxconn is most affected by the suicides. I quote this : "While Terry Gou, chairman of Foxconn's Taiwanese parent company Hon Hai Precision, has denied the company was at fault, labour activists in nearby Hong Kong have called for a boycott of the next generation of Apple's iPhone, which could be unveiled as early as next month at the annual Apple Worldwide Developers Conference. Apple issued a statement on Wednesday following press coverage of the latest Shenzhen plant suicide, the first direct public acknowledgment of the suicides from the iPhone manufacture the Wall Street Journal notes. "We are saddened and upset by the recent suicides at Foxconn. Apple is deeply committed to ensuring that conditions throughout our supply chain are safe and workers are treated with respect and dignity," Apple said. http://www.pcworld.com/article/197303/apple_hp_dell_team_to_investigate_foxc... Corrections welcome. -- www.projectskenya.info
I think that more hype has been placed on green and energy efficient products, far more than has been the case about life and it's sanctity. I wonder if we should push to have 'green' and 'humane' as labels on products that we buy! And that HP and the other companies also have foxconn assembling their products does not make it less of an issue. Corporate Social Responsibility for these companies should start there! Had to say it. On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 2:00 PM, MICHAEL AKUNGA <michaelakunga@gmail.com>wrote:
@Philip: I don get it at all so you saying a constituent of China is not China or what do you mean, Foxconn so far has to carry the responsibility before the state China did, don take it light brother Life is sacred, and we cry fault of suicide and so we are
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 1:56 PM, Philip Musyoki <pmusyoki@gmail.com>wrote:
Aki,
Foxconn assembles products for other companies such a HP, Dell and Cisco. So there is nothing rotten at Apple's core, and even if there was, so will there be something rotten also at HP's, Dell's, Cisco's core. And the cores of all those other companies that assemble their electronics and Foxconn.
And so that you know, the suicide rate at Foxconn is less that that of China as a whole. So there is nothing wrong at Foxconn, statistically. Those people at Foxconn are actually less inclined to commit suicide than people in China as a whole. So you see, Foxconn is actually *safer* than China.
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@Philip, some more info to go over. IMAGE : Protestors from SACOM (Students and Scholars Against Corporate Misbehaviour) burn effigies of Apple products during a demonstration near the offices of Foxconn in Hong Kong over the deaths of 11 workers. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/china-business/7763699/Protest-at-Chinese...
I think the deplorable conditions at Foxconn can be attributable to poor management and working conditions. I think people will tend to pick on Apple more as a symbol of their frustrations than as a cause. People who commit suicide will commit suicide whether assembling an iPad, and HP computer or a Safaricom solar mobile phone. The main cause is the drive for cheap manufacturing, pushing all manufacturing jobs to China. The likes of Foxconn seek cheap labour, which they underpay for, and create unacceptable working conditions. I guess we are all as guilty as Foxconn, Apple, HP and the like. We seek cheaper equipment without caring their impact on those who toil to make them and the conditions they work in. And at USD 130 a month.
I think you are generalizing the problem. Apple's heavy appetite for its fashionable succesful lineup could be main cause of the deaths. There are many who earn the same wages in that plant and for someone to commit suicide, you must take way their passion/ability to live by degrading them to that of a robot level despair in life. Saying we seek cheaper equipment is not true. How cheap are Apple products compared to others? Also look at the profitability of Apple sales, from 50% to 89% depending on the segment. Apple's revenues are running into billions while the worker at the factory is getting paid a miserable US cents 0.3 per hour for skilled labour? For any of the devices to pass quality control and where any human inspection is necessary, that wage is too low. No wonder the west dominates on wealth distribution. BTW, when did you ever hear of someone jumping off the safaricom building? The Queen Bee is not that ruthless.... :-) Me thots. On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 2:35 PM, Philip Musyoki <pmusyoki@gmail.com> wrote:
I think the deplorable conditions at Foxconn can be attributable to poor management and working conditions. I think people will tend to pick on Apple more as a symbol of their frustrations than as a cause. People who commit suicide will commit suicide whether assembling an iPad, and HP computer or a Safaricom solar mobile phone.
The main cause is the drive for cheap manufacturing, pushing all manufacturing jobs to China. The likes of Foxconn seek cheap labour, which they underpay for, and create unacceptable working conditions. I guess we are all as guilty as Foxconn, Apple, HP and the like. We seek cheaper equipment without caring their impact on those who toil to make them and the conditions they work in.
And at USD 130 a month.
I think guys here need to be realistic. Foxconn are a company to whom production of Apple & other manufacturer's products are outsourced. The reason they were chosen is in addition to technical ability was cost. Foxconn employees are therefore not Apple employees. In fact all these companies that oursource do not care about the welfare of the actual people doing the work. As far as they are concerned this welfare is the responsibility of Foxconn. Lots of us outsource things like cleaning of our houses, cooking, security etc. We pay these people (maids, watchmen, washer women, etc) peanuts. We expect them to take care of themselves while not directly washing/cleaning/performing services for us. Why do we suddenly care for Foxconn employees and ignore the welfare of those right under our noses? Why are we outraged over these conditions and yet we pay that maid 5k a month? How different is that situation from this? On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 3:02 PM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
I think you are generalizing the problem. Apple's heavy appetite for its fashionable succesful lineup could be main cause of the deaths. There are many who earn the same wages in that plant and for someone to commit suicide, you must take way their passion/ability to live by degrading them to that of a robot level despair in life. Saying we seek cheaper equipment is not true. How cheap are Apple products compared to others? Also look at the profitability of Apple sales, from 50% to 89% depending on the segment.
Apple's revenues are running into billions while the worker at the factory is getting paid a miserable US cents 0.3 per hour for skilled labour? For any of the devices to pass quality control and where any human inspection is necessary, that wage is too low. No wonder the west dominates on wealth distribution.
BTW, when did you ever hear of someone jumping off the safaricom building? The Queen Bee is not that ruthless.... :-)
Me thots.
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 2:35 PM, Philip Musyoki <pmusyoki@gmail.com> wrote:
I think the deplorable conditions at Foxconn can be attributable to poor management and working conditions. I think people will tend to pick on Apple more as a symbol of their frustrations than as a cause. People who commit suicide will commit suicide whether assembling an iPad, and HP computer or a Safaricom solar mobile phone.
The main cause is the drive for cheap manufacturing, pushing all manufacturing jobs to China. The likes of Foxconn seek cheap labour, which they underpay for, and create unacceptable working conditions. I guess we are all as guilty as Foxconn, Apple, HP and the like. We seek cheaper equipment without caring their impact on those who toil to make them and the conditions they work in.
And at USD 130 a month.
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That we do not pay the maid 15-40k does not make the incident less tragic. I think that as much as the bottom line counts, human life should be guarded. I think that they try and ensure the companies to whom they outsource are responsible, otherwise they might end up losing in the long-run. Same case with the blood diamonds. Now that Apple has learned of these occurences, I am curious as to how they will respond. Apple is a huge company and I dare say that they will take action sooner rather than later. On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 3:22 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
I think guys here need to be realistic.
Foxconn are a company to whom production of Apple & other manufacturer's products are outsourced. The reason they were chosen is in addition to technical ability was cost.
Foxconn employees are therefore not Apple employees. In fact all these companies that oursource do not care about the welfare of the actual people doing the work. As far as they are concerned this welfare is the responsibility of Foxconn.
Lots of us outsource things like cleaning of our houses, cooking, security etc. We pay these people (maids, watchmen, washer women, etc) peanuts. We expect them to take care of themselves while not directly washing/cleaning/performing services for us.
Why do we suddenly care for Foxconn employees and ignore the welfare of those right under our noses? Why are we outraged over these conditions and yet we pay that maid 5k a month?
How different is that situation from this?
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 3:02 PM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
I think you are generalizing the problem. Apple's heavy appetite for its fashionable succesful lineup could be main cause of the deaths. There are many who earn the same wages in that plant and for someone to commit suicide, you must take way their passion/ability to live by degrading them to that of a robot level despair in life. Saying we seek cheaper equipment is not true. How cheap are Apple products compared to others? Also look at the profitability of Apple sales, from 50% to 89% depending on the segment.
Apple's revenues are running into billions while the worker at the factory is getting paid a miserable US cents 0.3 per hour for skilled labour? For any of the devices to pass quality control and where any human inspection is necessary, that wage is too low. No wonder the west dominates on wealth distribution.
BTW, when did you ever hear of someone jumping off the safaricom building? The Queen Bee is not that ruthless.... :-)
Me thots.
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 2:35 PM, Philip Musyoki <pmusyoki@gmail.com> wrote:
I think the deplorable conditions at Foxconn can be attributable to poor management and working conditions. I think people will tend to pick on Apple more as a symbol of their frustrations than as a cause. People who commit suicide will commit suicide whether assembling an iPad, and HP computer or a Safaricom solar mobile phone.
The main cause is the drive for cheap manufacturing, pushing all manufacturing jobs to China. The likes of Foxconn seek cheap labour, which they underpay for, and create unacceptable working conditions. I guess we are all as guilty as Foxconn, Apple, HP and the like. We seek cheaper equipment without caring their impact on those who toil to make them and the conditions they work in.
And at USD 130 a month.
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No one is saying its less tragic. I'm just saying it is hypocrisy to make noise at Apple for doing the same things. On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 3:30 PM, Eva Kimathi <evakimathi@gmail.com> wrote:
That we do not pay the maid 15-40k does not make the incident less tragic. I think that as much as the bottom line counts, human life should be guarded. I think that they try and ensure the companies to whom they outsource are responsible, otherwise they might end up losing in the long-run. Same case with the blood diamonds.
Now that Apple has learned of these occurences, I am curious as to how they will respond. Apple is a huge company and I dare say that they will take action sooner rather than later.
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 3:22 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
I think guys here need to be realistic.
Foxconn are a company to whom production of Apple & other manufacturer's products are outsourced. The reason they were chosen is in addition to technical ability was cost.
Foxconn employees are therefore not Apple employees. In fact all these companies that oursource do not care about the welfare of the actual people doing the work. As far as they are concerned this welfare is the responsibility of Foxconn.
Lots of us outsource things like cleaning of our houses, cooking, security etc. We pay these people (maids, watchmen, washer women, etc) peanuts. We expect them to take care of themselves while not directly washing/cleaning/performing services for us.
Why do we suddenly care for Foxconn employees and ignore the welfare of those right under our noses? Why are we outraged over these conditions and yet we pay that maid 5k a month?
How different is that situation from this?
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 3:02 PM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
I think you are generalizing the problem. Apple's heavy appetite for its fashionable succesful lineup could be main cause of the deaths. There are many who earn the same wages in that plant and for someone to commit suicide, you must take way their passion/ability to live by degrading them to that of a robot level despair in life. Saying we seek cheaper equipment is not true. How cheap are Apple products compared to others? Also look at the profitability of Apple sales, from 50% to 89% depending on the segment.
Apple's revenues are running into billions while the worker at the factory is getting paid a miserable US cents 0.3 per hour for skilled labour? For any of the devices to pass quality control and where any human inspection is necessary, that wage is too low. No wonder the west dominates on wealth distribution.
BTW, when did you ever hear of someone jumping off the safaricom building? The Queen Bee is not that ruthless.... :-)
Me thots.
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 2:35 PM, Philip Musyoki <pmusyoki@gmail.com> wrote:
I think the deplorable conditions at Foxconn can be attributable to poor management and working conditions. I think people will tend to pick on Apple more as a symbol of their frustrations than as a cause. People who commit suicide will commit suicide whether assembling an iPad, and HP computer or a Safaricom solar mobile phone.
The main cause is the drive for cheap manufacturing, pushing all manufacturing jobs to China. The likes of Foxconn seek cheap labour, which they underpay for, and create unacceptable working conditions. I guess we are all as guilty as Foxconn, Apple, HP and the like. We seek cheaper equipment without caring their impact on those who toil to make them and the conditions they work in.
And at USD 130 a month.
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True! I will see what I can do for the sake of 'my maid'. Try and make sure she is not oppressed, but I would like to live in a global village where my son is also not in danger of this kind of oppression On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 3:33 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
No one is saying its less tragic. I'm just saying it is hypocrisy to make noise at Apple for doing the same things.
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 3:30 PM, Eva Kimathi <evakimathi@gmail.com> wrote:
That we do not pay the maid 15-40k does not make the incident less tragic. I think that as much as the bottom line counts, human life should be guarded. I think that they try and ensure the companies to whom they outsource are responsible, otherwise they might end up losing in the long-run. Same case with the blood diamonds.
Now that Apple has learned of these occurences, I am curious as to how they will respond. Apple is a huge company and I dare say that they will take action sooner rather than later.
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 3:22 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
I think guys here need to be realistic.
Foxconn are a company to whom production of Apple & other manufacturer's products are outsourced. The reason they were chosen is in addition to technical ability was cost.
Foxconn employees are therefore not Apple employees. In fact all these companies that oursource do not care about the welfare of the actual people doing the work. As far as they are concerned this welfare is the responsibility of Foxconn.
Lots of us outsource things like cleaning of our houses, cooking, security etc. We pay these people (maids, watchmen, washer women, etc) peanuts. We expect them to take care of themselves while not directly washing/cleaning/performing services for us.
Why do we suddenly care for Foxconn employees and ignore the welfare of those right under our noses? Why are we outraged over these conditions and yet we pay that maid 5k a month?
How different is that situation from this?
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 3:02 PM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
I think you are generalizing the problem. Apple's heavy appetite for its fashionable succesful lineup could be main cause of the deaths. There are many who earn the same wages in that plant and for someone to commit suicide, you must take way their passion/ability to live by degrading them to that of a robot level despair in life. Saying we seek cheaper equipment is not true. How cheap are Apple products compared to others? Also look at the profitability of Apple sales, from 50% to 89% depending on the segment.
Apple's revenues are running into billions while the worker at the factory is getting paid a miserable US cents 0.3 per hour for skilled labour? For any of the devices to pass quality control and where any human inspection is necessary, that wage is too low. No wonder the west dominates on wealth distribution.
BTW, when did you ever hear of someone jumping off the safaricom building? The Queen Bee is not that ruthless.... :-)
Me thots.
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 2:35 PM, Philip Musyoki <pmusyoki@gmail.com> wrote:
I think the deplorable conditions at Foxconn can be attributable to poor management and working conditions. I think people will tend to pick on Apple more as a symbol of their frustrations than as a cause. People who commit suicide will commit suicide whether assembling an iPad, and HP computer or a Safaricom solar mobile phone.
The main cause is the drive for cheap manufacturing, pushing all manufacturing jobs to China. The likes of Foxconn seek cheap labour, which they underpay for, and create unacceptable working conditions. I guess we are all as guilty as Foxconn, Apple, HP and the like. We seek cheaper equipment without caring their impact on those who toil to make them and the conditions they work in.
And at USD 130 a month.
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Thing is, most people happily buy products from "the oppressed" Cell phone manufacturers (Nokia, Samsung et al, by extension participate in the crisis at the Congo), we don't attack them, we benefit. We have local companies infamous for oppressing employees, we celebrate the cheaper pricing. Mechanics in Kenya expose themselves to hazardous carcinogenics everyday, when fixing our cars, but it's cool. People die building structures in Kenya, day in day out, no insurance, no safety equipment, but it's ok, we save a coin... My issue is that living in a country where we constantly benefit from the blood of others, can we really cast the first stone? -- With Regards, Phares Kariuki | T: +254 734 810 802 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares |
@Aki please look into the state of work and life at the factory/dorms in factories in China who have business outsorced to them, then you will see that this is not an isolated case, nor is it happening at Foxconn only. Saying that Apple is responsibly is true to a point, a very minute point. V On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 3:52 PM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Thing is, most people happily buy products from "the oppressed" Cell phone manufacturers (Nokia, Samsung et al, by extension participate in the crisis at the Congo), we don't attack them, we benefit. We have local companies infamous for oppressing employees, we celebrate the cheaper pricing. Mechanics in Kenya expose themselves to hazardous carcinogenics everyday, when fixing our cars, but it's cool. People die building structures in Kenya, day in day out, no insurance, no safety equipment, but it's ok, we save a coin... My issue is that living in a country where we constantly benefit from the blood of others, can we really cast the first stone?
-- With Regards,
Phares Kariuki
| T: +254 734 810 802 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares |
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@Rad, I sense the thread is going to digress into something else rather than the subject matter. I did not cook up the information posted so I rest my case. On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 3:33 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
No one is saying its less tragic. I'm just saying it is hypocrisy to make noise at Apple for doing the same things.
@philip I Copy On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 4:23 PM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
@Rad, I sense the thread is going to digress into something else rather than the subject matter. I did not cook up the information posted so I rest my case.
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 3:33 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
No one is saying its less tragic. I'm just saying it is hypocrisy to make noise at Apple for doing the same things.
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:) No comment to either side of the argument - you all raise valid points. In as much as I want to buy my iPhone 3GS or HP laptop at less than USD. 200 - I do not want mentally unstable employees underpaid to manufacture them.
<quote> Apple is a huge company and I dare say that they will take action sooner rather than later. </quote> BP is a HUGE company too. They have yet to take any serious action, And the damage keeps getting worse. Corporations have not been known to take responsibility - simply because they can get away with it. <you may be right, i may be crazy, but it just may be a lunatic you're looking for> <moto.b> ------------------------------ On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 3:30 PM, Eva Kimathi <evakimathi@gmail.com> wrote:
That we do not pay the maid 15-40k does not make the incident less tragic. I think that as much as the bottom line counts, human life should be guarded. I think that they try and ensure the companies to whom they outsource are responsible, otherwise they might end up losing in the long-run. Same case with the blood diamonds.
Now that Apple has learned of these occurences, I am curious as to how they will respond. Apple is a huge company and I dare say that they will take action sooner rather than later.
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 3:22 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
I think guys here need to be realistic.
Foxconn are a company to whom production of Apple & other manufacturer's products are outsourced. The reason they were chosen is in addition to technical ability was cost.
Foxconn employees are therefore not Apple employees. In fact all these companies that oursource do not care about the welfare of the actual people doing the work. As far as they are concerned this welfare is the responsibility of Foxconn.
Lots of us outsource things like cleaning of our houses, cooking, security etc. We pay these people (maids, watchmen, washer women, etc) peanuts. We expect them to take care of themselves while not directly washing/cleaning/performing services for us.
Why do we suddenly care for Foxconn employees and ignore the welfare of those right under our noses? Why are we outraged over these conditions and yet we pay that maid 5k a month?
How different is that situation from this?
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 3:02 PM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
I think you are generalizing the problem. Apple's heavy appetite for its fashionable succesful lineup could be main cause of the deaths. There are many who earn the same wages in that plant and for someone to commit suicide, you must take way their passion/ability to live by degrading them to that of a robot level despair in life. Saying we seek cheaper equipment is not true. How cheap are Apple products compared to others? Also look at the profitability of Apple sales, from 50% to 89% depending on the segment.
Apple's revenues are running into billions while the worker at the factory is getting paid a miserable US cents 0.3 per hour for skilled labour? For any of the devices to pass quality control and where any human inspection is necessary, that wage is too low. No wonder the west dominates on wealth distribution.
BTW, when did you ever hear of someone jumping off the safaricom building? The Queen Bee is not that ruthless.... :-)
Me thots.
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 2:35 PM, Philip Musyoki <pmusyoki@gmail.com> wrote:
I think the deplorable conditions at Foxconn can be attributable to poor management and working conditions. I think people will tend to pick on Apple more as a symbol of their frustrations than as a cause. People who commit suicide will commit suicide whether assembling an iPad, and HP computer or a Safaricom solar mobile phone.
The main cause is the drive for cheap manufacturing, pushing all manufacturing jobs to China. The likes of Foxconn seek cheap labour, which they underpay for, and create unacceptable working conditions. I guess we are all as guilty as Foxconn, Apple, HP and the like. We seek cheaper equipment without caring their impact on those who toil to make them and the conditions they work in.
And at USD 130 a month.
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-- ------------------------------
The unfortunate reality is that capitalism is broken. For the growth that capitalism demands, labour and natural resources somewhere must be cheap. Slavery and colonialism fueled the growth in the west and now it is cheap asian workers. The solution is responsible capitalism. Capitalism coupled with guaranteed social services. Health, education, transport, security, housing must be made accesible to the masses by the state. Health, education, and security, must be free and guaranteed, and housing must be subsidized. Evading tax must attract hefty and painful punishment. In this model we will still have cheap labour in the form of those who dont hack it to graduate or start business. But those very people will be protected by the state with an ecosystem of social services. Everyone wins.! So the go getter capitalist has the capacity to build a multinational and the average dude is guaranteed social security. This model actually works in Finland. No other country not even arrogant America matches the infrastructure and social model of Finland. It can be done, the Finish have done it and they are not angels. King'ori For to be free is not merely to cast off one's chains, but to live in a way that creates and enhances the freedom of others. Nelson Mandela ----- Original message -----
<quote> Apple is a huge company and I dare say that they will take action sooner rather than later. </quote> BP is a HUGE company too. They have yet to take any serious action, And the damage keeps getting worse. Corporations have not been known to take responsibility - simply because they can get away with it. <you may be right, i may be crazy, but it just may be a lunatic you're looking for> <moto.b> ------------------------------
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 3:30 PM, Eva Kimathi <evakimathi@gmail.com> wrote:
That we do not pay the maid 15-40k does not make the incident less tragic. I think that as much as the bottom line counts, human life should be guarded. I think that they try and ensure the companies to whom they outsource are responsible, otherwise they might end up losing in the long-run. Same case with the blood diamonds.
Now that Apple has learned of these occurences, I am curious as to how they will respond. Apple is a huge company and I dare say that they will take action sooner rather than later.
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 3:22 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
I think guys here need to be realistic.
Foxconn are a company to whom production of Apple & other manufacturer's products are outsourced. The reason they were chosen is in addition to technical ability was cost.
Foxconn employees are therefore not Apple employees. In fact all these companies that oursource do not care about the welfare of the actual people doing the work. As far as they are concerned this welfare is the responsibility of Foxconn.
Lots of us outsource things like cleaning of our houses, cooking, security etc. We pay these people (maids, watchmen, washer women, etc) peanuts. We expect them to take care of themselves while not directly washing/cleaning/performing services for us.
Why do we suddenly care for Foxconn employees and ignore the welfare of those right under our noses? Why are we outraged over these conditions and yet we pay that maid 5k a month?
How different is that situation from this?
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 3:02 PM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
I think you are generalizing the problem. Apple's heavy appetite for its fashionable succesful lineup could be main cause of the deaths. There are many who earn the same wages in that plant and for someone to commit suicide, you must take way their passion/ability to live by degrading them to that of a robot level despair in life. Saying we seek cheaper equipment is not true. How cheap are Apple products compared to others? Also look at the profitability of Apple sales, from 50% to 89% depending on the segment.
Apple's revenues are running into billions while the worker at the factory is getting paid a miserable US cents 0.3 per hour for skilled labour? For any of the devices to pass quality control and where any human inspection is necessary, that wage is too low. No wonder the west dominates on wealth distribution.
BTW, when did you ever hear of someone jumping off the safaricom building? The Queen Bee is not that ruthless.... :-)
Me thots.
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 2:35 PM, Philip Musyoki <pmusyoki@gmail.com> wrote:
I think the deplorable conditions at Foxconn can be attributable to poor management and working conditions. I think people will tend to pick on Apple more as a symbol of their frustrations than as a cause. People who commit suicide will commit suicide whether assembling an iPad, and HP computer or a Safaricom solar mobile phone.
The main cause is the drive for cheap manufacturing, pushing all manufacturing jobs to China. The likes of Foxconn seek cheap labour, which they underpay for, and create unacceptable working conditions. I guess we are all as guilty as Foxconn, Apple, HP and the like. We seek cheaper equipment without caring their impact on those who toil to make them and the conditions they work in.
And at USD 130 a month.
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-- ------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------- Ovi Mail: Free email account from Nokia http://mail.ovi.com
The Bible used to instruct rich farmers in the old days not to harvest everything so that the poor can find something left in the farm when they came scavenging. Gives the poor man some dignity. @ Ovi is right, capitalism is broken. On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 9:00 AM, Ovi <kingorigitahi@ovi.com> wrote:
The unfortunate reality is that capitalism is broken. For the growth that capitalism demands, labour and natural resources somewhere must be cheap. Slavery and colonialism fueled the growth in the west and now it is cheap asian workers. The solution is responsible capitalism. Capitalism coupled with guaranteed social services. Health, education, transport, security, housing must be made accesible to the masses by the state. Health, education, and security, must be free and guaranteed, and housing must be subsidized. Evading tax must attract hefty and painful punishment. In this model we will still have cheap labour in the form of those who dont hack it to graduate or start business. But those very people will be protected by the state with an ecosystem of social services. Everyone wins.! So the go getter capitalist has the capacity to build a multinational and the average dude is guaranteed social security. This model actually works in Finland. No other country not even arrogant America matches the infrastructure and social model of Finland. It can be done, the Finish have done it and they are not angels.
King'ori
For to be free is not merely to cast off one's chains, but to live in a way that creates and enhances the freedom of others.
Nelson Mandela ----- Original message -----
<quote> Apple is a huge company and I dare say that they will take action sooner rather than later. </quote> BP is a HUGE company too. They have yet to take any serious action, And the damage keeps getting worse. Corporations have not been known to take responsibility - simply because they can get away with it. <you may be right, i may be crazy, but it just may be a lunatic you're looking for> <moto.b> ------------------------------
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 3:30 PM, Eva Kimathi <evakimathi@gmail.com> wrote:
That we do not pay the maid 15-40k does not make the incident less tragic. I think that as much as the bottom line counts, human life should be guarded. I think that they try and ensure the companies to whom they outsource are responsible, otherwise they might end up losing in the long-run. Same case with the blood diamonds.
Now that Apple has learned of these occurences, I am curious as to how they will respond. Apple is a huge company and I dare say that they will take action sooner rather than later.
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 3:22 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
I think guys here need to be realistic.
Foxconn are a company to whom production of Apple & other manufacturer's products are outsourced. The reason they were chosen is in addition to technical ability was cost.
Foxconn employees are therefore not Apple employees. In fact all these companies that oursource do not care about the welfare of the actual people doing the work. As far as they are concerned this welfare is the responsibility of Foxconn.
Lots of us outsource things like cleaning of our houses, cooking, security etc. We pay these people (maids, watchmen, washer women, etc) peanuts. We expect them to take care of themselves while not directly washing/cleaning/performing services for us.
Why do we suddenly care for Foxconn employees and ignore the welfare of those right under our noses? Why are we outraged over these conditions and yet we pay that maid 5k a month?
How different is that situation from this?
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 3:02 PM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
I think you are generalizing the problem. Apple's heavy appetite for its fashionable succesful lineup could be main cause of the deaths. There are many who earn the same wages in that plant and for someone to commit suicide, you must take way their passion/ability to live by degrading them to that of a robot level despair in life. Saying we seek cheaper equipment is not true. How cheap are Apple products compared to others? Also look at the profitability of Apple sales, from 50% to 89% depending on the segment.
Apple's revenues are running into billions while the worker at the factory is getting paid a miserable US cents 0.3 per hour for skilled labour? For any of the devices to pass quality control and where any human inspection is necessary, that wage is too low. No wonder the west dominates on wealth distribution.
BTW, when did you ever hear of someone jumping off the safaricom building? The Queen Bee is not that ruthless.... :-)
Me thots.
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 2:35 PM, Philip Musyoki <pmusyoki@gmail.com> wrote:
I think the deplorable conditions at Foxconn can be attributable to poor management and working conditions. I think people will tend to pick on Apple more as a symbol of their frustrations than as a cause. People who commit suicide will commit suicide whether assembling an iPad, and HP computer or a Safaricom solar mobile phone.
The main cause is the drive for cheap manufacturing, pushing all manufacturing jobs to China. The likes of Foxconn seek cheap labour, which they underpay for, and create unacceptable working conditions. I guess we are all as guilty as Foxconn, Apple, HP and the like. We seek cheaper equipment without caring their impact on those who toil to make them and the conditions they work in.
And at USD 130 a month.
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-- ------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------- Ovi Mail: Free email account from Nokia http://mail.ovi.com
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Digital is the new sweatshops...... People should hang for exploiting others so that they can become bigger than microsoft.... On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Ovi <kingorigitahi@ovi.com> wrote:
The unfortunate reality is that capitalism is broken. For the growth that capitalism demands, labour and natural resources somewhere must be cheap. Slavery and colonialism fueled the growth in the west and now it is cheap asian workers. The solution is responsible capitalism. Capitalism coupled with guaranteed social services. Health, education, transport, security, housing must be made accesible to the masses by the state. Health, education, and security, must be free and guaranteed, and housing must be subsidized. Evading tax must attract hefty and painful punishment. In this model we will still have cheap labour in the form of those who dont hack it to graduate or start business. But those very people will be protected by the state with an ecosystem of social services. Everyone wins.! So the go getter capitalist has the capacity to build a multinational and the average dude is guaranteed social security. This model actually works in Finland. No other country not even arrogant America matches the infrastructure and social model of Finland. It can be done, the Finish have done it and they are not angels.
King'ori
For to be free is not merely to cast off one's chains, but to live in a way that creates and enhances the freedom of others.
Nelson Mandela ----- Original message -----
<quote> Apple is a huge company and I dare say that they will take action sooner rather than later. </quote> BP is a HUGE company too. They have yet to take any serious action, And the damage keeps getting worse. Corporations have not been known to take responsibility - simply because they can get away with it. <you may be right, i may be crazy, but it just may be a lunatic you're looking for> <moto.b> ------------------------------
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 3:30 PM, Eva Kimathi <evakimathi@gmail.com> wrote:
That we do not pay the maid 15-40k does not make the incident less tragic. I think that as much as the bottom line counts, human life should be guarded. I think that they try and ensure the companies to whom they outsource are responsible, otherwise they might end up losing in the long-run. Same case with the blood diamonds.
Now that Apple has learned of these occurences, I am curious as to how they will respond. Apple is a huge company and I dare say that they will take action sooner rather than later.
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 3:22 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
I think guys here need to be realistic.
Foxconn are a company to whom production of Apple & other manufacturer's products are outsourced. The reason they were chosen is in addition to technical ability was cost.
Foxconn employees are therefore not Apple employees. In fact all these companies that oursource do not care about the welfare of the actual people doing the work. As far as they are concerned this welfare is the responsibility of Foxconn.
Lots of us outsource things like cleaning of our houses, cooking, security etc. We pay these people (maids, watchmen, washer women, etc) peanuts. We expect them to take care of themselves while not directly washing/cleaning/performing services for us.
Why do we suddenly care for Foxconn employees and ignore the welfare of those right under our noses? Why are we outraged over these conditions and yet we pay that maid 5k a month?
How different is that situation from this?
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 3:02 PM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
I think you are generalizing the problem. Apple's heavy appetite for its fashionable succesful lineup could be main cause of the deaths. There are many who earn the same wages in that plant and for someone to commit suicide, you must take way their passion/ability to live by degrading them to that of a robot level despair in life. Saying we seek cheaper equipment is not true. How cheap are Apple products compared to others? Also look at the profitability of Apple sales, from 50% to 89% depending on the segment.
Apple's revenues are running into billions while the worker at the factory is getting paid a miserable US cents 0.3 per hour for skilled labour? For any of the devices to pass quality control and where any human inspection is necessary, that wage is too low. No wonder the west dominates on wealth distribution.
BTW, when did you ever hear of someone jumping off the safaricom building? The Queen Bee is not that ruthless.... :-)
Me thots.
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 2:35 PM, Philip Musyoki <pmusyoki@gmail.com> wrote:
I think the deplorable conditions at Foxconn can be attributable to poor management and working conditions. I think people will tend to pick on Apple more as a symbol of their frustrations than as a cause. People who commit suicide will commit suicide whether assembling an iPad, and HP computer or a Safaricom solar mobile phone.
The main cause is the drive for cheap manufacturing, pushing all manufacturing jobs to China. The likes of Foxconn seek cheap labour, which they underpay for, and create unacceptable working conditions. I guess we are all as guilty as Foxconn, Apple, HP and the like. We seek cheaper equipment without caring their impact on those who toil to make them and the conditions they work in.
And at USD 130 a month.
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-- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- God is not an excuse for lack of discipline -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.
The unfortunate elephant in the room is that nobody really cares about the welfare of outsourced labour as long as they deliver On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Joram Mwinamo <joram.mwinamo@gmail.com> wrote:
Digital is the new sweatshops...... People should hang for exploiting others so that they can become bigger than microsoft....
Sorry to spoil your lynching party but I fail to see the direct correlation between Apple and the suicides. Off the blocks lemme be first to say that suicide is a very personal decision and one of the most selfish (Sorry for anyone who gets hurt by this expression, I have dealt with this matter at a personal level). In China and Japan it's considered a matter of honour. A person decides that having no life at all is better than the life he has. How in the world does that link up to Apple and why should they take the blame for such a choice? Is the product they make enough to apportion blame to them. Can we blame Toyota for manufacturing a car that someone uses to drive over a cliff? Some perspective people. My thoughts ... Kiania D. On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
The unfortunate elephant in the room is that nobody really cares about the welfare of outsourced labour as long as they deliver
On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Joram Mwinamo <joram.mwinamo@gmail.com> wrote:
Digital is the new sweatshops...... People should hang for exploiting others so that they can become bigger than microsoft....
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-- [Asentric Consulting Ltd] If a man has in himself the soul of a slave will he not become one no matter what his birth .... -Richest Man in Babylon
@David, Apple has an indirect responsibilty to the factory workers. And its not only us who see things that way, below is just one example of Apple's mentality. Here is a NYTimes article from Google’s VP of Engineering, Andy Rubin, has compared the restrictive nature of the Apple iPhone to life under the North Korean dictatorship of Kim Jong Il. http://www.pocketpicks.co.uk/index.php/2010/04/28/google-vp-compares-apple-i... On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 8:51 PM, David Kiania | Asentric Consulting Ltd <kianiadee@gmail.com> wrote:
Sorry to spoil your lynching party but I fail to see the direct correlation between Apple and the suicides. Off the blocks lemme be first to say that suicide is a very personal decision and one of the most selfish (Sorry for anyone who gets hurt by this expression, I have dealt with this matter at a personal level). In China and Japan it's considered a matter of honour.
@Aki do you, or does your company employ watchmen? On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 9:25 AM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
@David, Apple has an indirect responsibilty to the factory workers. And its not only us who see things that way, below is just one example of Apple's mentality.
Here is a NYTimes article from Google’s VP of Engineering, Andy Rubin, has compared the restrictive nature of the Apple iPhone to life under the North Korean dictatorship of Kim Jong Il.
http://www.pocketpicks.co.uk/index.php/2010/04/28/google-vp-compares-apple-i...
On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 8:51 PM, David Kiania | Asentric Consulting Ltd <kianiadee@gmail.com> wrote:
Sorry to spoil your lynching party but I fail to see the direct correlation between Apple and the suicides. Off the blocks lemme be first to say that suicide is a very personal decision and one of the most selfish (Sorry for anyone who gets hurt by this expression, I have dealt with this matter at a personal level). In China and Japan it's considered a matter of honour.
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@Rad, do you mean " iiiiiii-Watchmen" ? Lol! :-))) just kidding. But I know where this is going, charity begins at home, right? Sorry mate, charity begins at home and Apple earnings in billions have nothing in common as far as I can relate to these issues. To buy or not to buy Apple's products is a personal decision for many though I cannot understand why the iPad craze ( besides being fashionable and expensive. Nothing wrong with this, its a personal choice ) yet technically it is an inferior product. One key concept of technology advancements is Multi-Tasking. iPad is a year 2010 product BUT does not do Multi-Tasking! I believe this thread was an eye opener and discussion in the practises of the World's most profitable companies and how responsibility affects other countries. Me thots. On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
@Aki do you, or does your company employ watchmen?
It is nothing to do with charity or Apple. My point is the whole point of outsourcing is to make some things someone else's problem. You outsource transport because you don't want the hassle of fleet management, fuel cards, garages & mechanics, etc. Those things become the problem of the company you outsource to. Same thing with watchmen. When you employ them it is up to G4S to make sure the guy is paid, insured, medical etc. That watchman is not actually your employee. Ergo if it is discovered that G4S is somehow not treating their employees well (NOT THAT THEY ARE NOT!!) how then does it become your fault? On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 10:19 AM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
@Rad, do you mean " iiiiiii-Watchmen" ? Lol! :-))) just kidding. But I know where this is going, charity begins at home, right? Sorry mate, charity begins at home and Apple earnings in billions have nothing in common as far as I can relate to these issues.
To buy or not to buy Apple's products is a personal decision for many though I cannot understand why the iPad craze ( besides being fashionable and expensive. Nothing wrong with this, its a personal choice ) yet technically it is an inferior product. One key concept of technology advancements is Multi-Tasking. iPad is a year 2010 product BUT does not do Multi-Tasking! I believe this thread was an eye opener and discussion in the practises of the World's most profitable companies and how responsibility affects other countries.
Me thots.
On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
@Aki do you, or does your company employ watchmen?
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This post is absolutely baffling that I suspect it was meant as a joke. So I'll just LMAO and pretend it was. On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 3:24 AM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
It is nothing to do with charity or Apple.
My point is the whole point of outsourcing is to make some things someone else's problem. You outsource transport because you don't want the hassle of fleet management, fuel cards, garages & mechanics, etc. Those things become the problem of the company you outsource to.
Same thing with watchmen. When you employ them it is up to G4S to make sure the guy is paid, insured, medical etc. That watchman is not actually your employee. Ergo if it is discovered that G4S is somehow not treating their employees well (NOT THAT THEY ARE NOT!!) how then does it become your fault?
On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 10:19 AM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
@Rad, do you mean " iiiiiii-Watchmen" ? Lol! :-))) just kidding. But I know where this is going, charity begins at home, right? Sorry mate, charity begins at home and Apple earnings in billions have nothing in common as far as I can relate to these issues.
To buy or not to buy Apple's products is a personal decision for many though I cannot understand why the iPad craze ( besides being fashionable and expensive. Nothing wrong with this, its a personal choice ) yet technically it is an inferior product. One key concept of technology advancements is Multi-Tasking. iPad is a year 2010 product BUT does not do Multi-Tasking! I believe this thread was an eye opener and discussion in the practises of the World's most profitable companies and how responsibility affects other countries.
Me thots.
On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
@Aki do you, or does your company employ watchmen?
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Something is happening, hopefully it will alter the stats as of now http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2010/06/02/bloomberg1376-L3... I think that the uproar the situation at foxconn caused gave me a bit of hope over the state of humanity.....it might yet be saved. On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 10:57 AM, saidimu apale <saidimu@gmail.com> wrote:
This post is absolutely baffling that I suspect it was meant as a joke.
So I'll just LMAO and pretend it was.
On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 3:24 AM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
It is nothing to do with charity or Apple.
My point is the whole point of outsourcing is to make some things someone else's problem. You outsource transport because you don't want the hassle of fleet management, fuel cards, garages & mechanics, etc. Those things become the problem of the company you outsource to.
Same thing with watchmen. When you employ them it is up to G4S to make sure the guy is paid, insured, medical etc. That watchman is not actually your employee. Ergo if it is discovered that G4S is somehow not treating their employees well (NOT THAT THEY ARE NOT!!) how then does it become your fault?
On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 10:19 AM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
@Rad, do you mean " iiiiiii-Watchmen" ? Lol! :-))) just kidding. But I know where this is going, charity begins at home, right? Sorry mate, charity begins at home and Apple earnings in billions have nothing in common as far as I can relate to these issues.
To buy or not to buy Apple's products is a personal decision for many though I cannot understand why the iPad craze ( besides being fashionable and expensive. Nothing wrong with this, its a personal choice ) yet technically it is an inferior product. One key concept of technology advancements is Multi-Tasking. iPad is a year 2010 product BUT does not do Multi-Tasking! I believe this thread was an eye opener and discussion in the practises of the World's most profitable companies and how responsibility affects other countries.
Me thots.
On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
@Aki do you, or does your company employ watchmen?
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How we all love the lands much far away 8-).. I think we should change the subject of this thread to Kenyan "Pineapple and Flower Farms". If we happen to arrive to a verdict from such a discussion, we will be sure to effect it or offer some kind of report considering the cases are just a few miles from our computers ;-). The Apple insight is similarly good only that we cant effect or change anything - not unless Steve Jobs is on the list. Chris_w. dabnix@gmail.com On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 11:02 AM, Eva Kimathi <evakimathi@gmail.com> wrote:
Something is happening, hopefully it will alter the stats as of now
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2010/06/02/bloomberg1376-L3...
I think that the uproar the situation at foxconn caused gave me a bit of hope over the state of humanity.....it might yet be saved.
On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 10:57 AM, saidimu apale <saidimu@gmail.com> wrote:
This post is absolutely baffling that I suspect it was meant as a joke.
So I'll just LMAO and pretend it was.
On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 3:24 AM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
It is nothing to do with charity or Apple.
My point is the whole point of outsourcing is to make some things someone else's problem. You outsource transport because you don't want the hassle of fleet management, fuel cards, garages & mechanics, etc. Those things become the problem of the company you outsource to.
Same thing with watchmen. When you employ them it is up to G4S to make sure the guy is paid, insured, medical etc. That watchman is not actually your employee. Ergo if it is discovered that G4S is somehow not treating their employees well (NOT THAT THEY ARE NOT!!) how then does it become your fault?
On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 10:19 AM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
@Rad, do you mean " iiiiiii-Watchmen" ? Lol! :-))) just kidding. But I know where this is going, charity begins at home, right? Sorry mate, charity begins at home and Apple earnings in billions have nothing in common as far as I can relate to these issues.
To buy or not to buy Apple's products is a personal decision for many though I cannot understand why the iPad craze ( besides being fashionable and expensive. Nothing wrong with this, its a personal choice ) yet technically it is an inferior product. One key concept of technology advancements is Multi-Tasking. iPad is a year 2010 product BUT does not do Multi-Tasking! I believe this thread was an eye opener and discussion in the practises of the World's most profitable companies and how responsibility affects other countries.
Me thots.
On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
@Aki do you, or does your company employ watchmen?
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
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While Foxconn is an "outsourced entity", Apple has time to sue or reprimand others over patent/logo issues. This one is funny : Apple accuses web design school of using their logo : By Denis Wong, 06 October 2008 A Saanich web design school is holding its ground, following a threat by Apple to take legal action if the local firm does not change a corporate logo it has used since 2005. Calling his company a dedicated customer that uses Apple hardware and software almost exclusively in its operation, Victoria School of Business and Technology vice-president Christopher Boag said he and partner Dieter Gerhard were surprised to receive a strongly worded letter with no advance warning. "It was a total shock," he said. "It was like the small guy was kind of getting blown away and Apple was pushing hard in order to get us to (submit to their demands)." Boag and Gerhard argue that the apple is a "traditional representation of education" and that the logo in question, which incorporates the mountain logo of a sister company and has the words VSBT in one corner, in no way can be confused with the Apple logo. http://www.neowin.net/news/apple-accuses-web-design-school-of-using-their-lo... Final thots. :-)
On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 10:19 AM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
To buy or not to buy Apple's products is a personal decision for many though I cannot understand why the iPad craze ( besides being fashionable and expensive. Nothing wrong with this, its a personal choice ) yet technically it is an inferior product. One key concept of technology advancements is Multi-Tasking. iPad is a year 2010 product BUT does not do Multi-Tasking!
At least there is a choice and it is a personal decision. sometime back there was another non-multitasking product called "Windows" which you had to buy along with a desktop pc (even if you didnt want it !).
I believe this thread was an eye opener and discussion in the practises of the World's most profitable companies and how responsibility affects other countries.
What does responsibility have to do with profit ? should you not be responsible whether or not you make profit ?
The story of course is not as simple as a "iphone causative death" as being reported in the popular media. (Is it ever ?). You ought to read deeper into the news. See this story from Chinese media sources : <http://www.chinasmack.com/2010/stories/more-foxconn-suicide-news-reports.html> <quote> Some reporters suspect Foxconn having given the families of suicide victims 400,000 [RMB] plus a 30,000 [RMB] yearly pension to the parents have led to these poverty-stricken workers to copy each other willing to use their deaths to exchange financial security for their families. This view is indeed cold-blooded, but if it is true then that is our entire society’s responsibility and tragedy. If their deaths are for the compensation, then it should be treated differently. </quote> Also see : "Suicide is now the biggest single killer among young Chinese people" <http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/2526079.stm> "Markets in everything - China (suicide) edition" <http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/05/markets_in_everything_china_ed.html> On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 1:11 PM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
As the iPad is launched in Britain, a special investigation now reveals the full shocking toll of suicides at its Chinese factory. A once pretty 17-year-old lies crippled in a hospital bed two miles from the factory where she worked long, tedious hours checking the screens of Apple iPads for tiny flaws. Her parents brood silently at her bedside. At 8am one morning in March - just 40 days after she began her first job at Apple's main supplier, Foxconn, in southern China - Tian Yu took the decision to leap from her fourth-floor dormitory rather than take her place on the production line. Tian survived but must wonder if she would not have been better off dead.
After two weeks in a coma, she woke to find herself paralysed from the waist down, unable to sit up by herself and suffering from fractures and liver and spleen damage....
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1282481/iPad-factory-suici... _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
Apple is the market leader in consumer electronics "mind-share" (even if they aren't necessarily market leaders sales-wise). Consequently, they get targeted when issues like this come up. Fair or not, that comes with the territory (ask Nike, Cadbury, Nestle etc etc etc). Apple sells more than mere products, they sell a lifestyle. And the message of that lifestyle gets harmed with reports of unethical labor practices. Fair or not, this comes with the territory (again, ask Nike). If you are in the image-management business, as Apple is, then if people think it's your problem... it is your problem. Trying to counter with statistics will only sink you (ask BP). saidi On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 4:02 PM, <ashok+skunkworks@parliaments.info<ashok%2Bskunkworks@parliaments.info>
wrote:
The story of course is not as simple as a "iphone causative death" as being reported in the popular media. (Is it ever ?). You ought to read deeper into the news.
See this story from Chinese media sources :
< http://www.chinasmack.com/2010/stories/more-foxconn-suicide-news-reports.htm...
<quote> Some reporters suspect Foxconn having given the families of suicide victims 400,000 [RMB] plus a 30,000 [RMB] yearly pension to the parents have led to these poverty-stricken workers to copy each other willing to use their deaths to exchange financial security for their families. This view is indeed cold-blooded, but if it is true then that is our entire society’s responsibility and tragedy. If their deaths are for the compensation, then it should be treated differently. </quote>
Also see : "Suicide is now the biggest single killer among young Chinese people" <http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/2526079.stm>
"Markets in everything - China (suicide) edition" < http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/05/markets_in_everything_ch...
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 1:11 PM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
As the iPad is launched in Britain, a special investigation now reveals the full shocking toll of suicides at its Chinese factory. A once pretty 17-year-old lies crippled in a hospital bed two miles from the factory where she worked long, tedious hours checking the screens of Apple iPads for tiny flaws. Her parents brood silently at her bedside. At 8am one morning in March - just 40 days after she began her first job at Apple's main supplier, Foxconn, in southern China - Tian Yu took the decision to leap from her fourth-floor dormitory rather than take her place on the production line. Tian survived but must wonder if she would not have been better off dead.
After two weeks in a coma, she woke to find herself paralysed from the waist down, unable to sit up by herself and suffering from fractures and liver and spleen damage....
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1282481/iPad-factory-suici... _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
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participants (17)
-
aki -
ashok+skunkworks＠parliaments.info -
Chris W. -
David Kiania | Asentric Consulting Ltd -
Eva Kimathi -
John Doe -
Joram Mwinamo -
Martin Gachunga -
MICHAEL AKUNGA -
MotoBaridi -
ndungu stephen -
Ovi -
Phares Kariuki -
Philip Musyoki -
Rad! -
saidimu apale -
Victor Ngeny