Re: [Skunkworks] Suicides at iPad factory in China revealed, Something rotten at Apple's core?
@ Kiania i think to water down the conversation to an affront on Apple is unfair to the well thought out arguments on this thread. The issue here at least as i percieve it is the economic model that allows employee exploitation. There are two levels to this. The Macro level being how global economics encourage employee exploitation and the Micro level of how Apple and many other manufacturers are individually responsible for this. Hec how we are all individually responsible. We cant be whistling dixie while people are suffering . Their is some collective responsibility involved. While you are right on the suicide, for me that is a sideshow. We are trying to fix the disease not the symptom. And the disease is the fact that capitalism demands that business return a profit cut costs at whatever cost within the confines of the law. That bloodthirsty lust for profit must be tempered if workmans dignity is to be maintained. There are certain costs at which profit will make you lose sleep at night A caveat also is that it is too simplistic to assume that the suicides are caused by the working conditions. It might have the straw that broke the camels back, but their is usually a multiplicity of issues underlying such a drastic action. Kingz For to be free is not merely to cast off one's chains, but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of others. Nelson Mandela > ----- Original message ----- > From: "David Kiania | Asentric Consulting Ltd" > To: "Skunkworks Mailing List" > Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] Suicides at iPad factory in China revealed, Something rotten at Apple's core? > Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 20:51:44 +0300 > > >Sorry to spoil your lynching party but I fail to see the direct > correlation between Apple and the suicides. Off the blocks lemme be > first to say that suicide is a very personal decision and one of the > most selfish (Sorry for anyone who gets hurt by this expression, I > have dealt with this matter at a personal level). In China and Japan > it's considered a matter of honour. > > A person decides that having no life at all is better than the life he > has. How in the world does that link up to Apple and why should they > take the blame for such a choice? Is the product they make enough to > apportion blame to them. Can we blame Toyota for manufacturing a car > that someone uses to drive over a cliff? > > Some perspective people. My thoughts ...
Kiania D. > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Rad! wrote: The unfortunate elephant in the room is that nobody really cares about > > the welfare of outsourced labour as long as they deliver > > > On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Joram Mwinamo > > wrote: > >> Digital is the new sweatshops...... > >> People should hang for exploiting others so that they can become bigger than > >> microsoft.... > > _______________________________________________ > > Skunkworks mailing list > > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > > ------------ > > Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet > > http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ > > Skunkworks Rules > > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > > ------------ > > Other services @ http://my.co.ke > > > > > > -- > > [Asentric Consulting Ltd] > If a man has in himself the soul of a slave will he not become one no > matter what his birth .... > > -Richest Man in Babylon > _______________________________________________ > Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet > http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
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King'ori, We are keen to take up causes seas and oceans away while we ignore the issues here at home. While it's easier and glamorous to go after the corporate monguls like Apple, M$ft what have we done to address the same issues where we live? What practical actions do we take beyond the mailing list? Don't you still want an ipad? I know I still do. Kiania On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 9:29 PM, King'ori Gitahi <kingorigitahi@ovi.com> wrote:
@ Kiania i think to water down the conversation to an affront on Apple is unfair to the well thought out arguments on this thread. The issue here at least as i percieve it is the economic model that allows employee exploitation. There are two levels to this. The Macro level being how global economics encourage employee exploitation and the Micro level of how Apple and many other manufacturers are individually responsible for this. Hec how we are all individually responsible. We cant be whistling dixie while people are suffering . Their is some collective responsibility involved. While you are right on the suicide, for me that is a sideshow. We are trying to fix the disease not the symptom. And the disease is the fact that capitalism demands that business return a profit cut costs at whatever cost within the confines of the law. That bloodthirsty lust for profit must be tempered if workmans dignity is to be maintained. There are certain costs at which profit will make you lose sleep at night A caveat also is that it is too simplistic to assume that the suicides are caused by the working conditions. It might have the straw that broke the camels back, but their is usually a multiplicity of issues underlying such a drastic action. Kingz For to be free is not merely to cast off one's chains, but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of others. Nelson Mandela > ----- Original message ----- > From: "David Kiania | Asentric Consulting Ltd" > To: "Skunkworks Mailing List" > Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] Suicides at iPad factory in China revealed, Something rotten at Apple's core? > Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 20:51:44 +0300 > > >Sorry to spoil your lynching party but I fail to see the direct > correlation between Apple and the suicides. Off the blocks lemme be > first to say that suicide is a very personal decision and one of the > most selfish (Sorry for anyone who gets hurt by this expression, I > have dealt with this matter at a personal level). In China and Japan > it's considered a matter of honour. > > A person decides that having no life at all is better than the life he > has. How in the world does that link up to Apple and why should they > take the blame for such a choice? Is the product they make enough to > apportion blame to them. Can we blame Toyota for manufacturing a car > that someone uses to drive over a cliff? > > Some perspective people. My thoughts ... > > > > Kiania D. > > >
On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Rad! wrote: > > The unfortunate elephant in the room is that nobody really cares about > > the welfare of outsourced labour as long as they deliver > > > > On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Joram Mwinamo > > wrote: > >> Digital is the new sweatshops...... People should hang for exploiting others so that they can become bigger than > >> microsoft.... > > _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list > > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > > ------------ > Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet > > http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ > > Skunkworks Rules > > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > > ------------ > > Other services @ http://my.co.ke > > > > > > -- > > [Asentric Consulting Ltd] > > If a man has in himself the soul of a slave will he not become one no > matter what his birth .... > > -Richest Man in Babylon > _______________________________________________ > Skunkworks mailing list > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet > http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
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_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- [Asentric Consulting Ltd] If a man has in himself the soul of a slave will he not become one no matter what his birth .... -Richest Man in Babylon
We are keen to take up causes seas and oceans away while we ignore the issues here at home.
These are not mutually-exclusive. At least he's trying to grapple with the issues, that's more than can be said of some. Don't you still want an ipad? I know I still do. That is a false dichotomy. You can want an iPad, or an Android smartphone, while still insisting on fair treatment of those who made it. Infact, that's the smart thing to do. Here's what a German preacher from WW2 one said: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came... "First they came for the socialists and I did not speak out because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me." On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 5:18 PM, David Kiania | Asentric Consulting Ltd < kianiadee@gmail.com> wrote:
King'ori,
We are keen to take up causes seas and oceans away while we ignore the issues here at home. While it's easier and glamorous to go after the corporate monguls like Apple, M$ft what have we done to address the same issues where we live?
What practical actions do we take beyond the mailing list? Don't you still want an ipad? I know I still do.
Kiania
On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 9:29 PM, King'ori Gitahi <kingorigitahi@ovi.com> wrote:
@ Kiania i think to water down the conversation to an affront on Apple is unfair to the well thought out arguments on this thread. The issue here at least as i percieve it is the economic model that allows employee exploitation. There are two levels to this. The Macro level being how global economics encourage employee exploitation and the Micro level of how Apple and many other manufacturers are individually responsible for this. Hec how we are all individually responsible. We cant be whistling dixie while people are suffering . Their is some collective responsibility involved. While you are right on the suicide, for me that is a sideshow. We are trying to fix the disease not the symptom. And the disease is the fact that capitalism demands that business return a profit cut costs at whatever cost within the confines of the law. That bloodthirsty lust for profit must be tempered if workmans dignity is to be maintained. There are certain costs at which profit will make you lose sleep at night A caveat also is that it is too simplistic to assume that the suicides are caused by the working conditions. It might have the straw that broke the camels back, but their is usually a multiplicity of issues underlying such a drastic action. Kingz For to be free is not merely to cast off one's chains, but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of others. Nelson Mandela > ----- Original message ----- > From: "David Kiania | Asentric Consulting Ltd"
To: "Skunkworks Mailing List" > Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] Suicides at iPad factory in China revealed, Something rotten at Apple's core? > Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 20:51:44 +0300 > > >Sorry to spoil your lynching party but I fail to see the direct > correlation between Apple and the suicides. Off the blocks lemme be > first to say that suicide is a very personal decision and one of the > most selfish (Sorry for anyone who gets hurt by this expression, I > have dealt with this matter at a personal level). In China and Japan > it's considered a matter of honour. > > A person decides that having no life at all is better than the life he > has. How in the world does that link up to Apple and why should they > take the blame for such a choice? Is the product they make enough to > apportion blame to them. Can we blame Toyota for manufacturing a car > that someone uses to drive over a cliff? > > Some perspective people. My thoughts ... > > > > Kiania D. > >
On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Rad! wrote: > > The unfortunate elephant in the room is that nobody really cares about > > the welfare of outsourced labour as long as they deliver > > > > On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Joram Mwinamo > > wrote: > >> Digital is the new sweatshops...... People should hang for exploiting others so that they can become bigger than > >> microsoft.... > >
Skunkworks mailing list > > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > > ------------ > Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet > >
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f...
------------ > > Skunkworks Rules > > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > > ------------ > > Other services @ http://my.co.ke > > > > > > -- > > [Asentric Consulting Ltd]
If a man has in himself the soul of a slave will he not become one no > matter what his birth .... > > -Richest Man in Babylon > _______________________________________________ > Skunkworks mailing list
Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------
Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet >
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f...
------------ > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
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_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f...
------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
--
[Asentric Consulting Ltd]
If a man has in himself the soul of a slave will he not become one no matter what his birth ....
-Richest Man in Babylon _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
Well said Kiania. However my thinking is a bit different and really isn't about apple. Apple is just a gear in a larger engine. Fix the economic model that causes the problem and the work conditions will fix themselves both in Asia and with my househelp. My issue as you can see is the disease not the symptom. The goings on at Apple are a symptom and to me they are small fry whether completely true or not. U can supress a symptom but another will occur elsewhere unless you kill the disease. And no i don't want an iPad, its too big but that's just me. However i do like the iPod touch but I like physical books more. And they are 100 percent biodegradable and recyclable. As for devices maybe 60 percent recyclable but not biodegradable. However that's an argument for another day. Kingz -- For to be free is not merely to cast off one's chains, but to live in a way that creates and enhances the freedom of others. Nelson Mandela ----- Original message -----
King'ori,
We are keen to take up causes seas and oceans away while we ignore the issues here at home. While it's easier and glamorous to go after the corporate monguls like Apple, M$ft what have we done to address the same issues where we live?
What practical actions do we take beyond the mailing list? Don't you still want an ipad? I know I still do.
Kiania
On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 9:29 PM, King'ori Gitahi <kingorigitahi@ovi.com> wrote:
@ Kiania i think to water down the conversation to an affront on Apple is unfair to the well thought out arguments on this thread. The issue here at least as i percieve it is the economic model that allows employee exploitation. There are two levels to this. The Macro level being how global economics encourage employee exploitation and the Micro level of how Apple and many other manufacturers are individually responsible for this. Hec how we are all individually responsible. We cant be whistling dixie while people are suffering . Their is some collective responsibility involved. While you are right on the suicide, for me that is a sideshow. We are trying to fix the disease not the symptom. And the disease is the fact that capitalism demands that business return a profit cut costs at whatever cost within the confines of the law. That bloodthirsty lust for profit must be tempered if workmans dignity is to be maintained. There are certain costs at which profit will make you lose sleep at night A caveat also is that it is too simplistic to assume that the suicides are caused by the working conditions. It might have the straw that broke the camels back, but their is usually a multiplicity of issues underlying such a drastic action. Kingz For to be free is not merely to cast off one's chains, but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of others. Nelson Mandela > ----- Original message ----- > From: "David Kiania | Asentric Consulting Ltd" > To: "Skunkworks Mailing List" > Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] Suicides at iPad factory in China revealed, Something rotten at Apple's core? > Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 20:51:44 +0300 > > >Sorry to spoil your lynching party but I fail to see the direct > correlation between Apple and the suicides. Off the blocks lemme be > first to say that suicide is a very personal decision and one of the > most selfish (Sorry for anyone who gets hurt by this expression, I > have dealt with this matter at a personal level). In China and Japan > it's considered a matter of honour. > > A person decides that having no life at all is better than the life he > has. How in the world does that link up to Apple and why should they > take the blame for such a choice? Is the product they make enough to > apportion blame to them. Can we blame Toyota for manufacturing a car > that someone uses to drive over a cliff? > > Some perspective people. My thoughts ... > > > > Kiania D. > > >
On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Rad! wrote: > > The unfortunate elephant in the room is that nobody really cares about > > the welfare of outsourced labour as long as they deliver > > > > On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Joram Mwinamo > > wrote: > >> Digital is the new sweatshops...... People should hang for exploiting others so that they can become bigger than > >> microsoft.... > >
Skunkworks mailing list > > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > > ------------ > Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet > > http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ > > Skunkworks Rules > > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > > ------------ > > Other services @ http://my.co.ke > > > > > > -- > > [Asentric Consulting Ltd] > > If a man has in himself the soul of a slave will he not become one no > matter what his birth .... > > -Richest Man in Babylon > _______________________________________________ > Skunkworks mailing list > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet > http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
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_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
--
[Asentric Consulting Ltd]
If a man has in himself the soul of a slave will he not become one no matter what his birth ....
-Richest Man in Babylon _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
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Apple may not be directly responsible for a bunch of people committing suicide but... - A few days back there was a thread of how Apple has grown to be the biggest tech company. - When Gizmodo leaked the iphone 4G, they came under a lot of heat from Apple. Since Apple needs to make super profits and maintain secrecy of product development, all people in their production chain need to understand this, be strong willed and accept mad pressure. On 2 June 2010 05:01, Ovi <kingorigitahi@ovi.com> wrote:
Well said Kiania. However my thinking is a bit different and really isn't about apple. Apple is just a gear in a larger engine. Fix the economic model that causes the problem and the work conditions will fix themselves both in Asia and with my househelp. My issue as you can see is the disease not the symptom. The goings on at Apple are a symptom and to me they are small fry whether completely true or not. U can supress a symptom but another will occur elsewhere unless you kill the disease. And no i don't want an iPad, its too big but that's just me. However i do like the iPod touch but I like physical books more. And they are 100 percent biodegradable and recyclable. As for devices maybe 60 percent recyclable but not biodegradable. However that's an argument for another day.
Kingz -- For to be free is not merely to cast off one's chains, but to live in a way that creates and enhances the freedom of others.
Nelson Mandela ----- Original message -----
King'ori,
We are keen to take up causes seas and oceans away while we ignore the issues here at home. While it's easier and glamorous to go after the corporate monguls like Apple, M$ft what have we done to address the same issues where we live?
What practical actions do we take beyond the mailing list? Don't you still want an ipad? I know I still do.
Kiania
On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 9:29 PM, King'ori Gitahi <kingorigitahi@ovi.com> wrote:
@ Kiania i think to water down the conversation to an affront on Apple is unfair to the well thought out arguments on this thread. The issue here at least as i percieve it is the economic model that allows employee exploitation. There are two levels to this. The Macro level being how global economics encourage employee exploitation and the Micro level of how Apple and many other manufacturers are individually responsible for this. Hec how we are all individually responsible. We cant be whistling dixie while people are suffering . Their is some collective responsibility involved. While you are right on the suicide, for me that is a sideshow. We are trying to fix the disease not the symptom. And the disease is the fact that capitalism demands that business return a profit cut costs at whatever cost within the confines of the law. That bloodthirsty lust for profit must be tempered if workmans dignity is to be maintained. There are certain costs at which profit will make you lose sleep at night A caveat also is that it is too simplistic to assume that the suicides are caused by the working conditions. It might have the straw that broke the camels back, but their is usually a multiplicity of issues underlying such a drastic action. Kingz For to be free is not merely to cast off one's chains, but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of others. Nelson Mandela > ----- Original message ----- > From: "David Kiania | Asentric Consulting Ltd" > To: "Skunkworks Mailing List" > Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] Suicides at iPad factory in China revealed, Something rotten at Apple's core? > Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 20:51:44 +0300 > > >Sorry to spoil your lynching party but I fail to see the direct > correlation between Apple and the suicides. Off the blocks lemme be > first to say that suicide is a very personal decision and one of the > most selfish (Sorry for anyone who gets hurt by this expression, I > have dealt with this matter at a personal level). In China and Japan > it's considered a matter of honour. > > A person decides that having no life at all is better than the life he > has. How in the world does that link up to Apple and why should they > take the blame for such a choice? Is the product they make enough to > apportion blame to them. Can we blame Toyota for manufacturing a car > that someone uses to drive over a cliff? > > Some perspective people. My thoughts ... > > > > Kiania D. > > >
On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Rad! wrote: > > The unfortunate elephant in the room is that nobody really cares about > > the welfare of outsourced labour as long as they deliver > > > > On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Joram Mwinamo > > wrote: > >> Digital is the new sweatshops...... People should hang for exploiting others so that they can become bigger than > >> microsoft.... > >
Skunkworks mailing list > > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > > ------------ > Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet > >
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f...
------------ > > Skunkworks Rules > > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > > ------------ > > Other services @ http://my.co.ke > > > > > > -- > > [Asentric Consulting Ltd] > > If a man has in himself the soul of a slave will he not become one no > matter what his birth .... > > -Richest Man in Babylon > _______________________________________________ > Skunkworks mailing list > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet >
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f...
------------ > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
-------------------------------------------------------------- Ovi Mail: Simple and user-friendly interface http://mail.ovi.com
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f...
------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
--
[Asentric Consulting Ltd]
If a man has in himself the soul of a slave will he not become one no matter what his birth ....
-Richest Man in Babylon _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f...
------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-------------------------------------------------------------- Ovi Mail: Being used in over 200 countries http://mail.ovi.com
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Gichingiri Kuria _________________________________________ www.website.co.ke / www.sokoletu.co.ke
participants (5)
-
David Kiania | Asentric Consulting Ltd -
Gichingiri Kuria -
King'ori Gitahi -
Ovi
-
saidimu apale