Hi all, Since mpesa has worked so well in Kenya, how about we put the next general elections on mobile using USSD. As you register to vote, you can choose to vote via mobile and provide the number that you will use. Come election day, prompts will be sent to batches of users to vote. If done right, more people will vote and results will be out faster. -- Gichingiri Kuria _________________________________________ www.website.co.ke / www.sokoletu.co.ke
USSD is usually poorly secured (open to alteration while in transit) plus do you want someone somewhere keeping record of all the people YOU voted for? Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Gichingiri Kuria <gmail@gichingiri.com> Sender: skunkworks-bounces@lists.my.co.ke Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 17:13:16 To: Skunkworks forum<skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Reply-To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Subject: [Skunkworks] voting on mobile _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://orion.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
Good idea, but ciphering algorithms cracks alluded to here would be a big undoing, big powers could comfortably rig in whoever they want with a simple hack. Remember power attracts big money and vice versa.... On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 5:16 PM, <muteti@gmail.com> wrote:
USSD is usually poorly secured (open to alteration while in transit) plus do you want someone somewhere keeping record of all the people YOU voted for?
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Gichingiri Kuria <gmail@gichingiri.com> Sender: skunkworks-bounces@lists.my.co.ke Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 17:13:16 To: Skunkworks forum<skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Reply-To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Subject: [Skunkworks] voting on mobile
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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Hi, @ Gichingiri Kuria, it can work well but consider a scenario where a Politician gathers a crowd of people and dishes out cash after confirming that you voted for him through your mobile phone!!! That will ruin the whole exercise.... On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 6:13 AM, Gichingiri Kuria <gmail@gichingiri.com>wrote:
Hi all,
Since mpesa has worked so well in Kenya, how about we put the next general elections on mobile using USSD.
As you register to vote, you can choose to vote via mobile and provide the number that you will use. Come election day, prompts will be sent to batches of users to vote.
If done right, more people will vote and results will be out faster.
-- Gichingiri Kuria _________________________________________ www.website.co.ke / www.sokoletu.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
The idea looks brilliant on paper but if you look at the technical details you will discover it's not!USSD is not secure enough for this kind of work. On 10 February 2012 17:23, Emmanuel Ochieng <emmanuelochieng797@gmail.com>wrote:
Hi,
@ Gichingiri Kuria, it can work well but consider a scenario where a Politician gathers a crowd of people and dishes out cash after confirming that you voted for him through your mobile phone!!! That will ruin the whole exercise....
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 6:13 AM, Gichingiri Kuria <gmail@gichingiri.com>wrote:
Hi all,
Since mpesa has worked so well in Kenya, how about we put the next general elections on mobile using USSD.
As you register to vote, you can choose to vote via mobile and provide the number that you will use. Come election day, prompts will be sent to batches of users to vote.
If done right, more people will vote and results will be out faster.
-- Gichingiri Kuria _________________________________________ www.website.co.ke / www.sokoletu.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Kind regards. Moses Muya
Ok, remove the USSD aspect. Imagine a system that is very simple to use, yet secure and works right. "Imagine" is just the first step... On 10 February 2012 17:28, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com> wrote:
The idea looks brilliant on paper but if you look at the technical details you will discover it's not!USSD is not secure enough for this kind of work.
On 10 February 2012 17:23, Emmanuel Ochieng <emmanuelochieng797@gmail.com>wrote:
Hi,
@ Gichingiri Kuria, it can work well but consider a scenario where a Politician gathers a crowd of people and dishes out cash after confirming that you voted for him through your mobile phone!!! That will ruin the whole exercise....
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 6:13 AM, Gichingiri Kuria <gmail@gichingiri.com>wrote:
Hi all,
Since mpesa has worked so well in Kenya, how about we put the next general elections on mobile using USSD.
As you register to vote, you can choose to vote via mobile and provide the number that you will use. Come election day, prompts will be sent to batches of users to vote.
If done right, more people will vote and results will be out faster.
-- Gichingiri Kuria _________________________________________ www.website.co.ke / www.sokoletu.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Kind regards.
Moses Muya
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Gichingiri Kuria _________________________________________ www.website.co.ke / www.sokoletu.co.ke
I think the most important aspect to consider is ensuring voter authentication, data protection and then anonymous e/mBalloting. Once that is done then you are good. Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Gichingiri Kuria <gmail@gichingiri.com> Sender: skunkworks-bounces@lists.my.co.ke Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 17:42:06 To: Skunkworks Mailing List<skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Reply-To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] voting on mobile _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://orion.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
Good.But you cannot "imagine" in a vacuum,you have to consider all the technologies we have.Unless you want to "imagine",write good papers about it and leave it at that without implementing it!Most Kenyans have feature phones,the only way to implement the system and ensure everyone can use it is by using USSD and other like technologies. On 10 February 2012 17:42, Gichingiri Kuria <gmail@gichingiri.com> wrote:
Ok, remove the USSD aspect. Imagine a system that is very simple to use, yet secure and works right. "Imagine" is just the first step...
On 10 February 2012 17:28, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com> wrote:
The idea looks brilliant on paper but if you look at the technical details you will discover it's not!USSD is not secure enough for this kind of work.
On 10 February 2012 17:23, Emmanuel Ochieng <emmanuelochieng797@gmail.com
wrote:
Hi,
@ Gichingiri Kuria, it can work well but consider a scenario where a Politician gathers a crowd of people and dishes out cash after confirming that you voted for him through your mobile phone!!! That will ruin the whole exercise....
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 6:13 AM, Gichingiri Kuria <gmail@gichingiri.com>wrote:
Hi all,
Since mpesa has worked so well in Kenya, how about we put the next general elections on mobile using USSD.
As you register to vote, you can choose to vote via mobile and provide the number that you will use. Come election day, prompts will be sent to batches of users to vote.
If done right, more people will vote and results will be out faster.
-- Gichingiri Kuria _________________________________________ www.website.co.ke / www.sokoletu.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Kind regards.
Moses Muya
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Gichingiri Kuria _________________________________________ www.website.co.ke / www.sokoletu.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Kind regards. Moses Muya
Gentlemen, Putting the technical aspects aside, alot of factors come into play. 1. Does the law allow us to vote through any other means, except through the ballot ? 2. The government may need to budget, plan , etc for this sort of voting. Voter education , public awareness. 3. Going by the political events in the Kenyan arena, I would propose you bring up the issue in the next election. Brilliant idea but I see alot of obstacles along the way... Kind regards, Kevin On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 5:48 PM, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com> wrote:
Good.But you cannot "imagine" in a vacuum,you have to consider all the technologies we have.Unless you want to "imagine",write good papers about it and leave it at that without implementing it!Most Kenyans have feature phones,the only way to implement the system and ensure everyone can use it is by using USSD and other like technologies.
On 10 February 2012 17:42, Gichingiri Kuria <gmail@gichingiri.com> wrote:
Ok, remove the USSD aspect. Imagine a system that is very simple to use, yet secure and works right. "Imagine" is just the first step...
On 10 February 2012 17:28, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com> wrote:
The idea looks brilliant on paper but if you look at the technical details you will discover it's not!USSD is not secure enough for this kind of work.
On 10 February 2012 17:23, Emmanuel Ochieng < emmanuelochieng797@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
@ Gichingiri Kuria, it can work well but consider a scenario where a Politician gathers a crowd of people and dishes out cash after confirming that you voted for him through your mobile phone!!! That will ruin the whole exercise....
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 6:13 AM, Gichingiri Kuria <gmail@gichingiri.com
wrote:
Hi all,
Since mpesa has worked so well in Kenya, how about we put the next general elections on mobile using USSD.
As you register to vote, you can choose to vote via mobile and provide the number that you will use. Come election day, prompts will be sent to batches of users to vote.
If done right, more people will vote and results will be out faster.
-- Gichingiri Kuria _________________________________________ www.website.co.ke / www.sokoletu.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Kind regards.
Moses Muya
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Gichingiri Kuria _________________________________________ www.website.co.ke / www.sokoletu.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Kind regards.
Moses Muya
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
And @Gichingiri's idea becomes "still born"! Kenyan's yawa. Instead of trying to nurture/develop an idea you just shoot it down?. You are all like Celtel (or what was it called then?) who (so I hear) were given the M-Pesa idea and they said it CANNOT work. BTW, is it really true ama hizo 'zinakuwaga' rumours?? :-) I suggest all members of this forum buy the best flowers & chocolates for their mates. Shoot that down too.<LOL> Heppy Furahiday!! On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 17:57, Kevin Oeba <oeba.kevin@gmail.com> wrote:
Gentlemen,
Putting the technical aspects aside, alot of factors come into play.
1. Does the law allow us to vote through any other means, except through the ballot ?
2. The government may need to budget, plan , etc for this sort of voting. Voter education , public awareness.
3. Going by the political events in the Kenyan arena, I would propose you bring up the issue in the next election.
Brilliant idea but I see alot of obstacles along the way...
Kind regards,
Kevin
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 5:48 PM, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com> wrote:
Good.But you cannot "imagine" in a vacuum,you have to consider all the technologies we have.Unless you want to "imagine",write good papers about it and leave it at that without implementing it!Most Kenyans have feature phones,the only way to implement the system and ensure everyone can use it is by using USSD and other like technologies.
On 10 February 2012 17:42, Gichingiri Kuria <gmail@gichingiri.com> wrote:
Ok, remove the USSD aspect. Imagine a system that is very simple to use, yet secure and works right. "Imagine" is just the first step...
On 10 February 2012 17:28, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com> wrote:
The idea looks brilliant on paper but if you look at the technical details you will discover it's not!USSD is not secure enough for this kind of work.
On 10 February 2012 17:23, Emmanuel Ochieng < emmanuelochieng797@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
@ Gichingiri Kuria, it can work well but consider a scenario where a Politician gathers a crowd of people and dishes out cash after confirming that you voted for him through your mobile phone!!! That will ruin the whole exercise....
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 6:13 AM, Gichingiri Kuria < gmail@gichingiri.com> wrote:
Hi all,
Since mpesa has worked so well in Kenya, how about we put the next general elections on mobile using USSD.
As you register to vote, you can choose to vote via mobile and provide the number that you will use. Come election day, prompts will be sent to batches of users to vote.
If done right, more people will vote and results will be out faster.
-- Gichingiri Kuria _________________________________________ www.website.co.ke / www.sokoletu.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Kind regards.
Moses Muya
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Gichingiri Kuria _________________________________________ www.website.co.ke / www.sokoletu.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Kind regards.
Moses Muya
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. Please consider the environment before printing this email.
@Washington, you misunderstood us here!A brilliant idea was given and we are looking at all the factors that would prevent it from becoming a reality.We don't support ideas by burying our head in the sand .Happy furahiday! On 10 Feb 2012 18:02, "Odhiambo Washington" <odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:
And @Gichingiri's idea becomes "still born"!
Kenyan's yawa. Instead of trying to nurture/develop an idea you just shoot it down?.
You are all like Celtel (or what was it called then?) who (so I hear) were given the M-Pesa idea and they said it CANNOT work.
BTW, is it really true ama hizo 'zinakuwaga' rumours?? :-)
I suggest all members of this forum buy the best flowers & chocolates for their mates. Shoot that down too.<LOL>
Heppy Furahiday!!
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 17:57, Kevin Oeba <oeba.kevin@gmail.com> wrote:
Gentlemen,
Putting the technical aspects aside, alot of factors come into play.
1. Does the law allow us to vote through any other means, except through the ballot ?
2. The government may need to budget, plan , etc for this sort of voting. Voter education , public awareness.
3. Going by the political events in the Kenyan arena, I would propose you bring up the issue in the next election.
Brilliant idea but I see alot of obstacles along the way...
Kind regards,
Kevin
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 5:48 PM, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com> wrote:
Good.But you cannot "imagine" in a vacuum,you have to consider all the technologies we have.Unless you want to "imagine",write good papers about it and leave it at that without implementing it!Most Kenyans have feature phones,the only way to implement the system and ensure everyone can use it is by using USSD and other like technologies.
On 10 February 2012 17:42, Gichingiri Kuria <gmail@gichingiri.com>wrote:
Ok, remove the USSD aspect. Imagine a system that is very simple to use, yet secure and works right. "Imagine" is just the first step...
On 10 February 2012 17:28, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com> wrote:
The idea looks brilliant on paper but if you look at the technical details you will discover it's not!USSD is not secure enough for this kind of work.
On 10 February 2012 17:23, Emmanuel Ochieng < emmanuelochieng797@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
@ Gichingiri Kuria, it can work well but consider a scenario where a Politician gathers a crowd of people and dishes out cash after confirming that you voted for him through your mobile phone!!! That will ruin the whole exercise....
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 6:13 AM, Gichingiri Kuria < gmail@gichingiri.com> wrote:
> Hi all, > > Since mpesa has worked so well in Kenya, how about we put the next > general elections on mobile using USSD. > > As you register to vote, you can choose to vote via mobile and > provide the number that you will use. > Come election day, prompts will be sent to batches of users to vote. > > If done right, more people will vote and results will be out faster. > > > -- > Gichingiri Kuria > _________________________________________ > www.website.co.ke / www.sokoletu.co.ke > > _______________________________________________ > Skunkworks mailing list > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > ------------ > List info, subscribe/unsubscribe > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Kind regards.
Moses Muya
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Gichingiri Kuria _________________________________________ www.website.co.ke / www.sokoletu.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Kind regards.
Moses Muya
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. Please consider the environment before printing this email.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
I'd have loved to see "suggested improvements" to make the idea a possibility. What I saw, you too saw:-) Lemme see where the beer is coldest today. On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 18:21, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com> wrote:
@Washington, you misunderstood us here!A brilliant idea was given and we are looking at all the factors that would prevent it from becoming a reality.We don't support ideas by burying our head in the sand .Happy furahiday!
On 10 Feb 2012 18:02, "Odhiambo Washington" <odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:
And @Gichingiri's idea becomes "still born"!
Kenyan's yawa. Instead of trying to nurture/develop an idea you just shoot it down?.
You are all like Celtel (or what was it called then?) who (so I hear) were given the M-Pesa idea and they said it CANNOT work.
BTW, is it really true ama hizo 'zinakuwaga' rumours?? :-)
I suggest all members of this forum buy the best flowers & chocolates for their mates. Shoot that down too.<LOL>
Heppy Furahiday!!
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 17:57, Kevin Oeba <oeba.kevin@gmail.com> wrote:
Gentlemen,
Putting the technical aspects aside, alot of factors come into play.
1. Does the law allow us to vote through any other means, except through the ballot ?
2. The government may need to budget, plan , etc for this sort of voting. Voter education , public awareness.
3. Going by the political events in the Kenyan arena, I would propose you bring up the issue in the next election.
Brilliant idea but I see alot of obstacles along the way...
Kind regards,
Kevin
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 5:48 PM, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com> wrote:
Good.But you cannot "imagine" in a vacuum,you have to consider all the technologies we have.Unless you want to "imagine",write good papers about it and leave it at that without implementing it!Most Kenyans have feature phones,the only way to implement the system and ensure everyone can use it is by using USSD and other like technologies.
On 10 February 2012 17:42, Gichingiri Kuria <gmail@gichingiri.com>wrote:
Ok, remove the USSD aspect. Imagine a system that is very simple to use, yet secure and works right. "Imagine" is just the first step...
On 10 February 2012 17:28, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com> wrote:
The idea looks brilliant on paper but if you look at the technical details you will discover it's not!USSD is not secure enough for this kind of work.
On 10 February 2012 17:23, Emmanuel Ochieng < emmanuelochieng797@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi, > > @ Gichingiri Kuria, it can work well but consider a scenario where > a Politician gathers a crowd of people and dishes out cash after confirming > that you voted for him through your mobile phone!!! That will ruin the > whole exercise.... > > On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 6:13 AM, Gichingiri Kuria < > gmail@gichingiri.com> wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> Since mpesa has worked so well in Kenya, how about we put the next >> general elections on mobile using USSD. >> >> As you register to vote, you can choose to vote via mobile and >> provide the number that you will use. >> Come election day, prompts will be sent to batches of users to vote. >> >> If done right, more people will vote and results will be out >> faster. >> >> -- >> Gichingiri Kuria >> _________________________________________ >> www.website.co.ke / www.sokoletu.co.ke >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Skunkworks mailing list >> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >> ------------ >> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >> ------------ >> >> Skunkworks Rules >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >> ------------ >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Skunkworks mailing list > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > ------------ > List info, subscribe/unsubscribe > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
-- Kind regards.
Moses Muya
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Gichingiri Kuria _________________________________________ www.website.co.ke / www.sokoletu.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Kind regards.
Moses Muya
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. Please consider the environment before printing this email.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. Please consider the environment before printing this email.
Most e-voting systems are always audited by trusted authorities, so insecurity inherent in technology can be dealt with. Even issues of anonymity can be tackled fairly simply. Methinks the pitfalls of "voting in the comfort of your home" is that it might not be that comfortable. How do you prevent people from being coerced to vote one way or another? --- On Fri, 2/10/12, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote: From: Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] voting on mobile To: "Skunkworks Mailing List" <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Date: Friday, February 10, 2012, 9:45 AM I'd have loved to see "suggested improvements" to make the idea a possibility. What I saw, you too saw:-) Lemme see where the beer is coldest today. On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 18:21, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com> wrote: @Washington, you misunderstood us here!A brilliant idea was given and we are looking at all the factors that would prevent it from becoming a reality.We don't support ideas by burying our head in the sand .Happy furahiday! On 10 Feb 2012 18:02, "Odhiambo Washington" <odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote: And @Gichingiri's idea becomes "still born"! Kenyan's yawa. Instead of trying to nurture/develop an idea you just shoot it down?. You are all like Celtel (or what was it called then?) who (so I hear) were given the M-Pesa idea and they said it CANNOT work. BTW, is it really true ama hizo 'zinakuwaga' rumours?? :-) I suggest all members of this forum buy the best flowers & chocolates for their mates. Shoot that down too.<LOL> Heppy Furahiday!! On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 17:57, Kevin Oeba <oeba.kevin@gmail.com> wrote: Gentlemen, Putting the technical aspects aside, alot of factors come into play. 1. Does the law allow us to vote through any other means, except through the ballot ? 2. The government may need to budget, plan , etc for this sort of voting. Voter education , public awareness. 3. Going by the political events in the Kenyan arena, I would propose you bring up the issue in the next election. Brilliant idea but I see alot of obstacles along the way... Kind regards, Kevin On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 5:48 PM, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com> wrote: Good.But you cannot "imagine" in a vacuum,you have to consider all the technologies we have.Unless you want to "imagine",write good papers about it and leave it at that without implementing it!Most Kenyans have feature phones,the only way to implement the system and ensure everyone can use it is by using USSD and other like technologies. On 10 February 2012 17:42, Gichingiri Kuria <gmail@gichingiri.com> wrote: Ok, remove the USSD aspect. Imagine a system that is very simple to use, yet secure and works right. "Imagine" is just the first step... On 10 February 2012 17:28, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com> wrote: The idea looks brilliant on paper but if you look at the technical details you will discover it's not!USSD is not secure enough for this kind of work. On 10 February 2012 17:23, Emmanuel Ochieng <emmanuelochieng797@gmail.com> wrote: Hi, @ Gichingiri Kuria, it can work well but consider a scenario where a Politician gathers a crowd of people and dishes out cash after confirming that you voted for him through your mobile phone!!! That will ruin the whole exercise.... On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 6:13 AM, Gichingiri Kuria <gmail@gichingiri.com> wrote: Hi all, Since mpesa has worked so well in Kenya, how about we put the next general elections on mobile using USSD. As you register to vote, you can choose to vote via mobile and provide the number that you will use. Come election day, prompts will be sent to batches of users to vote. If done right, more people will vote and results will be out faster. -- Gichingiri Kuria _________________________________________ www.website.co.ke / www.sokoletu.co.ke _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke -- Kind regards. Moses Muya _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke -- Gichingiri Kuria _________________________________________ www.website.co.ke / www.sokoletu.co.ke _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke -- Kind regards. Moses Muya _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. Please consider the environment before printing this email. _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. Please consider the environment before printing this email. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
Hi Odhiambo, It is very true that Airtel, then Kencell was given the idea of Mpesa in early 2002. I was part of the team that presented the idea. It had come from a S. africa company that had wanted to do mobile money Their idea was formed by the fact that money transfer in Kenya was expensive. They had done a small research and established that most kenyans sent money via freinds, matutus, buses and most teeliing, via post office normal letter which got stolen by posta staff. The two guys approach us in IT department and we sold the idea to our chief who organised for meeting with management. The reason the idea was shot down was on the basis of how to manage the atual cash. When a user wants to deposit cash, he has to go to the bank. Yet they were the same banks were the problem we were trying to address. when one guy suggested partnering with Charity sweepstake to use their small booths for depost and withdrwals, the whole meeting went into a chorus about insecurity and the risk involved. One manager even insinuated how africans will run with the money at the end of day. Anyway, the rest is history. I don't know how the idea several years later ended into the MJ desk. He was able to see the picture and ordered that it be implemented. All the emerging issues would be sorted out later. Lesson: Innovation requires you focus on the big picture and the state of success. Let's deal with the obstacles when they arise. I believe many of the issues on the mobile voting can easily be sorted our as the idea is developed. Modification Instead of a mobile application, why not have an OCR enabled ballot papers. The ballot box has a canner that automatically tallies the votes as they come. At the close of voting, all results from each polling station are automatically tallied at the central tallying centre database Regards Shad ________________________________ From: Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 6:01 PM Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] voting on mobile And @Gichingiri's idea becomes "still born"! Kenyan's yawa. Instead of trying to nurture/develop an idea you just shoot it down?. You are all like Celtel (or what was it called then?) who (so I hear) were given the M-Pesa idea and they said it CANNOT work. BTW, is it really true ama hizo 'zinakuwaga' rumours?? :-) I suggest all members of this forum buy the best flowers & chocolates for their mates. Shoot that down too.<LOL> Heppy Furahiday!! On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 17:57, Kevin Oeba <oeba.kevin@gmail.com> wrote: Gentlemen,
Putting the technical aspects aside, alot of factors come into play.
1. Does the law allow us to vote through any other means, except through the ballot ?
2. The government may need to budget, plan , etc for this sort of voting. Voter education , public awareness.
3. Going by the political events in the Kenyan arena, I would propose you bring up the issue in the next election.
Brilliant idea but I see alot of obstacles along the way...
Kind regards,
Kevin
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 5:48 PM, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com> wrote:
Good.But you cannot "imagine" in a vacuum,you have to consider all the technologies we have.Unless you want to "imagine",write good papers about it and leave it at that without implementing it!Most Kenyans have feature phones,the only way to implement the system and ensure everyone can use it is by using USSD and other like technologies.
On 10 February 2012 17:42, Gichingiri Kuria <gmail@gichingiri.com> wrote:
Ok, remove the USSD aspect. Imagine a system that is very simple to use, yet secure and works right. "Imagine" is just the first step...
On 10 February 2012 17:28, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com> wrote:
The idea looks brilliant on paper but if you look at the technical details you will discover it's not!USSD is not secure enough for this kind of work.
On 10 February 2012 17:23, Emmanuel Ochieng <emmanuelochieng797@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
@ Gichingiri Kuria, it can work well but consider a scenario where a Politician gathers a crowd of people and dishes out cash after confirming that you voted for him through your mobile phone!!! That will ruin the whole exercise....
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 6:13 AM, Gichingiri Kuria <gmail@gichingiri.com> wrote:
Hi all,
Since mpesa has worked so well in Kenya, how about we put the next general elections on mobile using USSD.
As you register to vote, you can choose to vote via mobile and provide the number that you will use. Come election day, prompts will be sent to batches of users to vote.
If done right, more people will vote and results will be out faster. -- Gichingiri Kuria _________________________________________ www.website.co.ke / www.sokoletu.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Kind regards.
Moses Muya
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://orion.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Gichingiri Kuria _________________________________________ www.website.co.ke / www.sokoletu.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Kind regards.
Moses Muya
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. Please consider the environment before printing this email. _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
@Shadrack - Totally agree with you on seizing the moment, but also that is the reason why most softwares have gaping holes in them, not building, for example, security from the bottom up - IMHO ./Ok3ch On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Shadrack Mwaniki < shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Odhiambo, It is very true that Airtel, then Kencell was given the idea of Mpesa in early 2002. I was part of the team that presented the idea. It had come from a S. africa company that had wanted to do mobile money Their idea was formed by the fact that money transfer in Kenya was expensive. They had done a small research and established that most kenyans sent money via freinds, matutus, buses and most teeliing, via post office normal letter which got stolen by posta staff.
The two guys approach us in IT department and we sold the idea to our chief who organised for meeting with management.
The reason the idea was shot down was on the basis of how to manage the atual cash. When a user wants to deposit cash, he has to go to the bank. Yet they were the same banks were the problem we were trying to address.
when one guy suggested partnering with Charity sweepstake to use their small booths for depost and withdrwals, the whole meeting went into a chorus about insecurity and the risk involved. One manager even insinuated how africans will run with the money at the end of day.
Anyway, the rest is history. I don't know how the idea several years later ended into the MJ desk. He was able to see the picture and ordered that it be implemented. All the emerging issues would be sorted out later.
Lesson: Innovation requires you focus on the big picture and the state of success. Let's deal with the obstacles when they arise. I believe many of the issues on the mobile voting can easily be sorted our as the idea is developed.
Modification Instead of a mobile application, why not have an OCR enabled ballot papers. The ballot box has a canner that automatically tallies the votes as they come. At the close of voting, all results from each polling station are automatically tallied at the central tallying centre database
Regards Shad
------------------------------ *From:* Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>
*To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2012 6:01 PM
*Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] voting on mobile
And @Gichingiri's idea becomes "still born"!
Kenyan's yawa. Instead of trying to nurture/develop an idea you just shoot it down?.
You are all like Celtel (or what was it called then?) who (so I hear) were given the M-Pesa idea and they said it CANNOT work.
BTW, is it really true ama hizo 'zinakuwaga' rumours?? :-)
I suggest all members of this forum buy the best flowers & chocolates for their mates. Shoot that down too.<LOL>
Heppy Furahiday!!
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 17:57, Kevin Oeba <oeba.kevin@gmail.com> wrote:
Gentlemen,
Putting the technical aspects aside, alot of factors come into play.
1. Does the law allow us to vote through any other means, except through the ballot ?
2. The government may need to budget, plan , etc for this sort of voting. Voter education , public awareness.
3. Going by the political events in the Kenyan arena, I would propose you bring up the issue in the next election.
Brilliant idea but I see alot of obstacles along the way...
Kind regards,
Kevin
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 5:48 PM, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com> wrote:
Good.But you cannot "imagine" in a vacuum,you have to consider all the technologies we have.Unless you want to "imagine",write good papers about it and leave it at that without implementing it!Most Kenyans have feature phones,the only way to implement the system and ensure everyone can use it is by using USSD and other like technologies.
On 10 February 2012 17:42, Gichingiri Kuria <gmail@gichingiri.com> wrote:
Ok, remove the USSD aspect. Imagine a system that is very simple to use, yet secure and works right. "Imagine" is just the first step...
On 10 February 2012 17:28, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com> wrote:
The idea looks brilliant on paper but if you look at the technical details you will discover it's not!USSD is not secure enough for this kind of work.
On 10 February 2012 17:23, Emmanuel Ochieng <emmanuelochieng797@gmail.com>wrote:
Hi,
@ Gichingiri Kuria, it can work well but consider a scenario where a Politician gathers a crowd of people and dishes out cash after confirming that you voted for him through your mobile phone!!! That will ruin the whole exercise....
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 6:13 AM, Gichingiri Kuria <gmail@gichingiri.com>wrote:
Hi all,
Since mpesa has worked so well in Kenya, how about we put the next general elections on mobile using USSD.
As you register to vote, you can choose to vote via mobile and provide the number that you will use. Come election day, prompts will be sent to batches of users to vote.
If done right, more people will vote and results will be out faster.
-- Gichingiri Kuria _________________________________________ www.website.co.ke / www.sokoletu.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Kind regards.
Moses Muya
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Gichingiri Kuria _________________________________________ www.website.co.ke / www.sokoletu.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Kind regards.
Moses Muya
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. Please consider the environment before printing this email.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
@okechukwu, but that is the point right there, we are supposed to build a solution then worry about the security when the need arises. Banks long ago didn't have security features till when the need arose. In Kenya banks now have safes, alarms, cctv, security guards, APs and Police, Escort services etc. Note: all the features above did not come at the same time, right? My cents.
@Shadrack - Totally agree with you on seizing the moment, but also that is the reason why most softwares have gaping holes in them, not building, for example, security from the bottom up - IMHO
./Ok3ch
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Shadrack Mwaniki < shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Odhiambo, It is very true that Airtel, then Kencell was given the idea of Mpesa in early 2002. I was part of the team that presented the idea. It had come from a S. africa company that had wanted to do mobile money Their idea was formed by the fact that money transfer in Kenya was expensive. They had done a small research and established that most kenyans sent money via freinds, matutus, buses and most teeliing, via post office normal letter which got stolen by posta staff.
The two guys approach us in IT department and we sold the idea to our chief who organised for meeting with management.
The reason the idea was shot down was on the basis of how to manage the atual cash. When a user wants to deposit cash, he has to go to the bank. Yet they were the same banks were the problem we were trying to address.
when one guy suggested partnering with Charity sweepstake to use their small booths for depost and withdrwals, the whole meeting went into a chorus about insecurity and the risk involved. One manager even insinuated how africans will run with the money at the end of day.
Anyway, the rest is history. I don't know how the idea several years later ended into the MJ desk. He was able to see the picture and ordered that it be implemented. All the emerging issues would be sorted out later.
Lesson: Innovation requires you focus on the big picture and the state of success. Let's deal with the obstacles when they arise. I believe many of the issues on the mobile voting can easily be sorted our as the idea is developed.
Modification Instead of a mobile application, why not have an OCR enabled ballot papers. The ballot box has a canner that automatically tallies the votes as they come. At the close of voting, all results from each polling station are automatically tallied at the central tallying centre database
Regards Shad
------------------------------ *From:* Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>
*To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2012 6:01 PM
*Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] voting on mobile
And @Gichingiri's idea becomes "still born"!
Kenyan's yawa. Instead of trying to nurture/develop an idea you just shoot it down?.
You are all like Celtel (or what was it called then?) who (so I hear) were given the M-Pesa idea and they said it CANNOT work.
BTW, is it really true ama hizo 'zinakuwaga' rumours?? :-)
I suggest all members of this forum buy the best flowers & chocolates for their mates. Shoot that down too.<LOL>
Heppy Furahiday!!
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 17:57, Kevin Oeba <oeba.kevin@gmail.com> wrote:
Gentlemen,
Putting the technical aspects aside, alot of factors come into play.
1. Does the law allow us to vote through any other means, except through the ballot ?
2. The government may need to budget, plan , etc for this sort of voting. Voter education , public awareness.
3. Going by the political events in the Kenyan arena, I would propose you bring up the issue in the next election.
Brilliant idea but I see alot of obstacles along the way...
Kind regards,
Kevin
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 5:48 PM, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com> wrote:
Good.But you cannot "imagine" in a vacuum,you have to consider all the technologies we have.Unless you want to "imagine",write good papers about it and leave it at that without implementing it!Most Kenyans have feature phones,the only way to implement the system and ensure everyone can use it is by using USSD and other like technologies.
On 10 February 2012 17:42, Gichingiri Kuria <gmail@gichingiri.com> wrote:
Ok, remove the USSD aspect. Imagine a system that is very simple to use, yet secure and works right. "Imagine" is just the first step...
On 10 February 2012 17:28, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com> wrote:
The idea looks brilliant on paper but if you look at the technical details you will discover it's not!USSD is not secure enough for this kind of work.
On 10 February 2012 17:23, Emmanuel Ochieng <emmanuelochieng797@gmail.com>wrote:
Hi,
@ Gichingiri Kuria, it can work well but consider a scenario where a Politician gathers a crowd of people and dishes out cash after confirming that you voted for him through your mobile phone!!! That will ruin the whole exercise....
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 6:13 AM, Gichingiri Kuria <gmail@gichingiri.com>wrote:
Hi all,
Since mpesa has worked so well in Kenya, how about we put the next general elections on mobile using USSD.
As you register to vote, you can choose to vote via mobile and provide the number that you will use. Come election day, prompts will be sent to batches of users to vote.
If done right, more people will vote and results will be out faster.
-- Gichingiri Kuria _________________________________________ www.website.co.ke / www.sokoletu.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Kind regards.
Moses Muya
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Gichingiri Kuria _________________________________________ www.website.co.ke / www.sokoletu.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Kind regards.
Moses Muya
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. Please consider the environment before printing this email.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
Mungai S. Mbugua CTO Elimu Holdings Limited sospeter@elimu.co.ke
Software wise, that is the reason why Windoze suffers with security issues while Linux is an underlying safehouse - The building blocks in a software matters more than just getting out and making money - IMHO ./Ok3ch On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 3:47 PM, Mungai S. Mbugua <sospeter@elimu.co.ke> wrote:
@okechukwu, but that is the point right there, we are supposed to build a solution then worry about the security when the need arises.
Banks long ago didn't have security features till when the need arose. In Kenya banks now have safes, alarms, cctv, security guards, APs and Police, Escort services etc.
Note: all the features above did not come at the same time, right?
My cents.
@Shadrack - Totally agree with you on seizing the moment, but also that is the reason why most softwares have gaping holes in them, not building, for example, security from the bottom up - IMHO
./Ok3ch
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Shadrack Mwaniki < shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Odhiambo, It is very true that Airtel, then Kencell was given the idea of Mpesa in early 2002. I was part of the team that presented the idea. It had come from a S. africa company that had wanted to do mobile money Their idea was formed by the fact that money transfer in Kenya was expensive. They had done a small research and established that most kenyans sent money via freinds, matutus, buses and most teeliing, via post office normal letter which got stolen by posta staff.
The two guys approach us in IT department and we sold the idea to our chief who organised for meeting with management.
The reason the idea was shot down was on the basis of how to manage the atual cash. When a user wants to deposit cash, he has to go to the bank. Yet they were the same banks were the problem we were trying to address.
when one guy suggested partnering with Charity sweepstake to use their small booths for depost and withdrwals, the whole meeting went into a chorus about insecurity and the risk involved. One manager even insinuated how africans will run with the money at the end of day.
Anyway, the rest is history. I don't know how the idea several years later ended into the MJ desk. He was able to see the picture and ordered that it be implemented. All the emerging issues would be sorted out later.
Lesson: Innovation requires you focus on the big picture and the state of success. Let's deal with the obstacles when they arise. I believe many of the issues on the mobile voting can easily be sorted our as the idea is developed.
Modification Instead of a mobile application, why not have an OCR enabled ballot papers. The ballot box has a canner that automatically tallies the votes as they come. At the close of voting, all results from each polling station are automatically tallied at the central tallying centre database
Regards Shad
------------------------------ *From:* Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>
*To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2012 6:01 PM
*Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] voting on mobile
And @Gichingiri's idea becomes "still born"!
Kenyan's yawa. Instead of trying to nurture/develop an idea you just shoot it down?.
You are all like Celtel (or what was it called then?) who (so I hear) were given the M-Pesa idea and they said it CANNOT work.
BTW, is it really true ama hizo 'zinakuwaga' rumours?? :-)
I suggest all members of this forum buy the best flowers & chocolates for their mates. Shoot that down too.<LOL>
Heppy Furahiday!!
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 17:57, Kevin Oeba <oeba.kevin@gmail.com> wrote:
Gentlemen,
Putting the technical aspects aside, alot of factors come into play.
1. Does the law allow us to vote through any other means, except through the ballot ?
2. The government may need to budget, plan , etc for this sort of voting. Voter education , public awareness.
3. Going by the political events in the Kenyan arena, I would propose you bring up the issue in the next election.
Brilliant idea but I see alot of obstacles along the way...
Kind regards,
Kevin
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 5:48 PM, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com> wrote:
Good.But you cannot "imagine" in a vacuum,you have to consider all the technologies we have.Unless you want to "imagine",write good papers about it and leave it at that without implementing it!Most Kenyans have feature phones,the only way to implement the system and ensure everyone can use it is by using USSD and other like technologies.
On 10 February 2012 17:42, Gichingiri Kuria <gmail@gichingiri.com> wrote:
Ok, remove the USSD aspect. Imagine a system that is very simple to use, yet secure and works right. "Imagine" is just the first step...
On 10 February 2012 17:28, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com> wrote:
The idea looks brilliant on paper but if you look at the technical details you will discover it's not!USSD is not secure enough for this kind of work.
On 10 February 2012 17:23, Emmanuel Ochieng <emmanuelochieng797@gmail.com>wrote:
Hi,
@ Gichingiri Kuria, it can work well but consider a scenario where a Politician gathers a crowd of people and dishes out cash after confirming that you voted for him through your mobile phone!!! That will ruin the whole exercise....
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 6:13 AM, Gichingiri Kuria <gmail@gichingiri.com>wrote:
Hi all,
Since mpesa has worked so well in Kenya, how about we put the next general elections on mobile using USSD.
As you register to vote, you can choose to vote via mobile and provide the number that you will use. Come election day, prompts will be sent to batches of users to vote.
If done right, more people will vote and results will be out faster.
-- Gichingiri Kuria _________________________________________ www.website.co.ke / www.sokoletu.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Kind regards.
Moses Muya
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Gichingiri Kuria _________________________________________ www.website.co.ke / www.sokoletu.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Kind regards.
Moses Muya
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. Please consider the environment before printing this email.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
Mungai S. Mbugua
CTO Elimu Holdings Limited
sospeter@elimu.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
No Mungai, we're supposed to cater for as many security issues as we can, the higher the risk then the higher the consideration. For example, when building a house, incorporate burglar proofing into the design of the windows. I keep wondering, do many people have to go to one place to vote? Can we do away with the drama associated with tallying votes? If something as sensitive as moving money has been simplified, can't we think hard to ease the whole voting process. @ Owuor, yes there's more than the technical aspects to be thought through. On 13 February 2012 16:02, Okechukwu <okechukwu@gmail.com> wrote:
Software wise, that is the reason why Windoze suffers with security issues while Linux is an underlying safehouse - The building blocks in a software matters more than just getting out and making money - IMHO
./Ok3ch
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 3:47 PM, Mungai S. Mbugua <sospeter@elimu.co.ke> wrote:
@okechukwu, but that is the point right there, we are supposed to build a solution then worry about the security when the need arises.
Banks long ago didn't have security features till when the need arose. In Kenya banks now have safes, alarms, cctv, security guards, APs and Police, Escort services etc.
Note: all the features above did not come at the same time, right?
My cents.
@Shadrack - Totally agree with you on seizing the moment, but also that is the reason why most softwares have gaping holes in them, not building, for example, security from the bottom up - IMHO
./Ok3ch
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Shadrack Mwaniki < shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Odhiambo, It is very true that Airtel, then Kencell was given the idea of Mpesa in early 2002. I was part of the team that presented the idea. It had come from a S. africa company that had wanted to do mobile money Their idea was formed by the fact that money transfer in Kenya was expensive. They had done a small research and established that most kenyans sent money via freinds, matutus, buses and most teeliing, via post office normal letter which got stolen by posta staff.
The two guys approach us in IT department and we sold the idea to our chief who organised for meeting with management.
The reason the idea was shot down was on the basis of how to manage the atual cash. When a user wants to deposit cash, he has to go to the bank. Yet they were the same banks were the problem we were trying to address.
when one guy suggested partnering with Charity sweepstake to use their small booths for depost and withdrwals, the whole meeting went into a chorus about insecurity and the risk involved. One manager even insinuated how africans will run with the money at the end of day.
Anyway, the rest is history. I don't know how the idea several years later ended into the MJ desk. He was able to see the picture and ordered that it be implemented. All the emerging issues would be sorted out later.
Lesson: Innovation requires you focus on the big picture and the state of success. Let's deal with the obstacles when they arise. I believe many of the issues on the mobile voting can easily be sorted our as the idea is developed.
Modification Instead of a mobile application, why not have an OCR enabled ballot papers. The ballot box has a canner that automatically tallies the votes as they come. At the close of voting, all results from each polling station are automatically tallied at the central tallying centre database
Regards Shad
------------------------------ *From:* Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>
*To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2012 6:01 PM
*Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] voting on mobile
And @Gichingiri's idea becomes "still born"!
Kenyan's yawa. Instead of trying to nurture/develop an idea you just shoot it down?.
You are all like Celtel (or what was it called then?) who (so I hear) were given the M-Pesa idea and they said it CANNOT work.
BTW, is it really true ama hizo 'zinakuwaga' rumours?? :-)
I suggest all members of this forum buy the best flowers & chocolates for their mates. Shoot that down too.<LOL>
Heppy Furahiday!!
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 17:57, Kevin Oeba <oeba.kevin@gmail.com> wrote:
Gentlemen,
Putting the technical aspects aside, alot of factors come into play.
1. Does the law allow us to vote through any other means, except through the ballot ?
2. The government may need to budget, plan , etc for this sort of voting. Voter education , public awareness.
3. Going by the political events in the Kenyan arena, I would propose you bring up the issue in the next election.
Brilliant idea but I see alot of obstacles along the way...
Kind regards,
Kevin
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 5:48 PM, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com> wrote:
Good.But you cannot "imagine" in a vacuum,you have to consider all the technologies we have.Unless you want to "imagine",write good papers about it and leave it at that without implementing it!Most Kenyans have feature phones,the only way to implement the system and ensure everyone can use it is by using USSD and other like technologies.
On 10 February 2012 17:42, Gichingiri Kuria <gmail@gichingiri.com> wrote:
Ok, remove the USSD aspect. Imagine a system that is very simple to use, yet secure and works right. "Imagine" is just the first step...
On 10 February 2012 17:28, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com> wrote:
The idea looks brilliant on paper but if you look at the technical details you will discover it's not!USSD is not secure enough for this kind of work.
On 10 February 2012 17:23, Emmanuel Ochieng <emmanuelochieng797@gmail.com>wrote:
Hi,
@ Gichingiri Kuria, it can work well but consider a scenario where a Politician gathers a crowd of people and dishes out cash after confirming that you voted for him through your mobile phone!!! That will ruin the whole exercise....
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 6:13 AM, Gichingiri Kuria <gmail@gichingiri.com>wrote:
Hi all,
Since mpesa has worked so well in Kenya, how about we put the next general elections on mobile using USSD.
As you register to vote, you can choose to vote via mobile and provide the number that you will use. Come election day, prompts will be sent to batches of users to vote.
If done right, more people will vote and results will be out faster.
-- Gichingiri Kuria _________________________________________ www.website.co.ke / www.sokoletu.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Kind regards.
Moses Muya
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Gichingiri Kuria _________________________________________ www.website.co.ke / www.sokoletu.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Kind regards.
Moses Muya
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. Please consider the environment before printing this email.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
Mungai S. Mbugua
CTO Elimu Holdings Limited
sospeter@elimu.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Gichingiri Kuria _________________________________________ www.website.co.ke / www.sokoletu.co.ke
Someone explain to me how this ussd vulnerability will affect the outcome of voting where ECK run a properly secure Database and authentication follows the same format as Mpesa. Are we saying that MPESA is suffering a lot because of the vulnerability? or is someone saying that the desire for money is less compelling than the one for political power? On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 4:07 PM, Gichingiri Kuria <gmail@gichingiri.com>wrote:
No Mungai, we're supposed to cater for as many security issues as we can, the higher the risk then the higher the consideration. For example, when building a house, incorporate burglar proofing into the design of the windows.
I keep wondering, do many people have to go to one place to vote? Can we do away with the drama associated with tallying votes? If something as sensitive as moving money has been simplified, can't we think hard to ease the whole voting process.
@ Owuor, yes there's more than the technical aspects to be thought through.
On 13 February 2012 16:02, Okechukwu <okechukwu@gmail.com> wrote:
Software wise, that is the reason why Windoze suffers with security issues while Linux is an underlying safehouse - The building blocks in a software matters more than just getting out and making money - IMHO
./Ok3ch
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 3:47 PM, Mungai S. Mbugua <sospeter@elimu.co.ke> wrote:
@okechukwu, but that is the point right there, we are supposed to build a solution then worry about the security when the need arises.
Banks long ago didn't have security features till when the need arose. In Kenya banks now have safes, alarms, cctv, security guards, APs and Police, Escort services etc.
Note: all the features above did not come at the same time, right?
My cents.
@Shadrack - Totally agree with you on seizing the moment, but also that is the reason why most softwares have gaping holes in them, not building, for example, security from the bottom up - IMHO
./Ok3ch
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Shadrack Mwaniki < shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Odhiambo, It is very true that Airtel, then Kencell was given the idea of Mpesa in early 2002. I was part of the team that presented the idea. It had come from a S. africa company that had wanted to do mobile money Their idea was formed by the fact that money transfer in Kenya was expensive. They had done a small research and established that most kenyans sent money via freinds, matutus, buses and most teeliing, via post office normal letter which got stolen by posta staff.
The two guys approach us in IT department and we sold the idea to our chief who organised for meeting with management.
The reason the idea was shot down was on the basis of how to manage the atual cash. When a user wants to deposit cash, he has to go to the bank. Yet they were the same banks were the problem we were trying to address.
when one guy suggested partnering with Charity sweepstake to use their small booths for depost and withdrwals, the whole meeting went into a chorus about insecurity and the risk involved. One manager even insinuated how africans will run with the money at the end of day.
Anyway, the rest is history. I don't know how the idea several years later ended into the MJ desk. He was able to see the picture and ordered that it be implemented. All the emerging issues would be sorted out later.
Lesson: Innovation requires you focus on the big picture and the state of success. Let's deal with the obstacles when they arise. I believe many of the issues on the mobile voting can easily be sorted our as the idea is developed.
Modification Instead of a mobile application, why not have an OCR enabled ballot papers. The ballot box has a canner that automatically tallies the votes as they come. At the close of voting, all results from each polling station are automatically tallied at the central tallying centre database
Regards Shad
------------------------------ *From:* Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>
*To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2012 6:01 PM
*Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] voting on mobile
And @Gichingiri's idea becomes "still born"!
Kenyan's yawa. Instead of trying to nurture/develop an idea you just shoot it down?.
You are all like Celtel (or what was it called then?) who (so I hear) were given the M-Pesa idea and they said it CANNOT work.
BTW, is it really true ama hizo 'zinakuwaga' rumours?? :-)
I suggest all members of this forum buy the best flowers & chocolates for their mates. Shoot that down too.<LOL>
Heppy Furahiday!!
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 17:57, Kevin Oeba <oeba.kevin@gmail.com> wrote:
Gentlemen,
Putting the technical aspects aside, alot of factors come into play.
1. Does the law allow us to vote through any other means, except through the ballot ?
2. The government may need to budget, plan , etc for this sort of voting. Voter education , public awareness.
3. Going by the political events in the Kenyan arena, I would propose you bring up the issue in the next election.
Brilliant idea but I see alot of obstacles along the way...
Kind regards,
Kevin
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 5:48 PM, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com> wrote:
Good.But you cannot "imagine" in a vacuum,you have to consider all the technologies we have.Unless you want to "imagine",write good papers about it and leave it at that without implementing it!Most Kenyans have feature phones,the only way to implement the system and ensure everyone can use it is by using USSD and other like technologies.
On 10 February 2012 17:42, Gichingiri Kuria <gmail@gichingiri.com> wrote:
Ok, remove the USSD aspect. Imagine a system that is very simple to use, yet secure and works right. "Imagine" is just the first step...
On 10 February 2012 17:28, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com> wrote:
The idea looks brilliant on paper but if you look at the technical details you will discover it's not!USSD is not secure enough for this kind of work.
On 10 February 2012 17:23, Emmanuel Ochieng <emmanuelochieng797@gmail.com>wrote:
Hi,
@ Gichingiri Kuria, it can work well but consider a scenario where a Politician gathers a crowd of people and dishes out cash after confirming that you voted for him through your mobile phone!!! That will ruin the whole exercise....
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 6:13 AM, Gichingiri Kuria <gmail@gichingiri.com>wrote:
Hi all,
Since mpesa has worked so well in Kenya, how about we put the next general elections on mobile using USSD.
As you register to vote, you can choose to vote via mobile and provide the number that you will use. Come election day, prompts will be sent to batches of users to vote.
If done right, more people will vote and results will be out faster.
-- Gichingiri Kuria _________________________________________ www.website.co.ke / www.sokoletu.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Kind regards.
Moses Muya
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Gichingiri Kuria _________________________________________ www.website.co.ke / www.sokoletu.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Kind regards.
Moses Muya
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. Please consider the environment before printing this email.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
Mungai S. Mbugua
CTO Elimu Holdings Limited
sospeter@elimu.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Gichingiri Kuria _________________________________________ www.website.co.ke / www.sokoletu.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- *“The twentieth century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: the growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy”*
@Okechukwa, And that is why windows has over 90% markshare of desktops business. While Unix developers are obsessed with security, windows understands that a home user is least concerned with security but geting a solution to a problem As long as you solve a user need, users will be happy to live with minor issues such as security. For any system, i believe the first priority is to give a solution to a need/problem/challenge. Second, is to cosider the cost implication of the solution. Sucurity and other peripheral bottle necks should not form the basis of any solutions. Securing a system is the easiest thing to achieve of all technical aspects of a solution development I may be wrong though Regards Shadrack ----- Original Message ----- From: Okechukwu <okechukwu@gmail.com> To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Cc: Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 4:02 PM Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] voting on mobile Software wise, that is the reason why Windoze suffers with security issues while Linux is an underlying safehouse - The building blocks in a software matters more than just getting out and making money - IMHO ./Ok3ch On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 3:47 PM, Mungai S. Mbugua <sospeter@elimu.co.ke> wrote:
@okechukwu, but that is the point right there, we are supposed to build a solution then worry about the security when the need arises.
Banks long ago didn't have security features till when the need arose. In Kenya banks now have safes, alarms, cctv, security guards, APs and Police, Escort services etc.
Note: all the features above did not come at the same time, right?
My cents.
@Shadrack - Totally agree with you on seizing the moment, but also that is the reason why most softwares have gaping holes in them, not building, for example, security from the bottom up - IMHO
./Ok3ch
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Shadrack Mwaniki < shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Odhiambo, It is very true that Airtel, then Kencell was given the idea of Mpesa in early 2002. I was part of the team that presented the idea. It had come from a S. africa company that had wanted to do mobile money Their idea was formed by the fact that money transfer in Kenya was expensive. They had done a small research and established that most kenyans sent money via freinds, matutus, buses and most teeliing, via post office normal letter which got stolen by posta staff.
The two guys approach us in IT department and we sold the idea to our chief who organised for meeting with management.
The reason the idea was shot down was on the basis of how to manage the atual cash. When a user wants to deposit cash, he has to go to the bank. Yet they were the same banks were the problem we were trying to address.
when one guy suggested partnering with Charity sweepstake to use their small booths for depost and withdrwals, the whole meeting went into a chorus about insecurity and the risk involved. One manager even insinuated how africans will run with the money at the end of day.
Anyway, the rest is history. I don't know how the idea several years later ended into the MJ desk. He was able to see the picture and ordered that it be implemented. All the emerging issues would be sorted out later.
Lesson: Innovation requires you focus on the big picture and the state of success. Let's deal with the obstacles when they arise. I believe many of the issues on the mobile voting can easily be sorted our as the idea is developed.
Modification Instead of a mobile application, why not have an OCR enabled ballot papers. The ballot box has a canner that automatically tallies the votes as they come. At the close of voting, all results from each polling station are automatically tallied at the central tallying centre database
Regards Shad
------------------------------ *From:* Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>
*To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2012 6:01 PM
*Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] voting on mobile
And @Gichingiri's idea becomes "still born"!
Kenyan's yawa. Instead of trying to nurture/develop an idea you just shoot it down?.
You are all like Celtel (or what was it called then?) who (so I hear) were given the M-Pesa idea and they said it CANNOT work.
BTW, is it really true ama hizo 'zinakuwaga' rumours?? :-)
I suggest all members of this forum buy the best flowers & chocolates for their mates. Shoot that down too.<LOL>
Heppy Furahiday!!
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 17:57, Kevin Oeba <oeba.kevin@gmail.com> wrote:
Gentlemen,
Putting the technical aspects aside, alot of factors come into play.
1. Does the law allow us to vote through any other means, except through the ballot ?
2. The government may need to budget, plan , etc for this sort of voting. Voter education , public awareness.
3. Going by the political events in the Kenyan arena, I would propose you bring up the issue in the next election.
Brilliant idea but I see alot of obstacles along the way...
Kind regards,
Kevin
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 5:48 PM, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com> wrote:
Good.But you cannot "imagine" in a vacuum,you have to consider all the technologies we have.Unless you want to "imagine",write good papers about it and leave it at that without implementing it!Most Kenyans have feature phones,the only way to implement the system and ensure everyone can use it is by using USSD and other like technologies.
On 10 February 2012 17:42, Gichingiri Kuria <gmail@gichingiri.com> wrote:
Ok, remove the USSD aspect. Imagine a system that is very simple to use, yet secure and works right. "Imagine" is just the first step...
On 10 February 2012 17:28, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com> wrote:
The idea looks brilliant on paper but if you look at the technical details you will discover it's not!USSD is not secure enough for this kind of work.
On 10 February 2012 17:23, Emmanuel Ochieng <emmanuelochieng797@gmail.com>wrote:
Hi,
@ Gichingiri Kuria, it can work well but consider a scenario where a Politician gathers a crowd of people and dishes out cash after confirming that you voted for him through your mobile phone!!! That will ruin the whole exercise....
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 6:13 AM, Gichingiri Kuria <gmail@gichingiri.com>wrote:
Hi all,
Since mpesa has worked so well in Kenya, how about we put the next general elections on mobile using USSD.
As you register to vote, you can choose to vote via mobile and provide the number that you will use. Come election day, prompts will be sent to batches of users to vote.
If done right, more people will vote and results will be out faster.
-- Gichingiri Kuria _________________________________________ www.website.co.ke / www.sokoletu.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Kind regards.
Moses Muya
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Gichingiri Kuria _________________________________________ www.website.co.ke / www.sokoletu.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Kind regards.
Moses Muya
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. Please consider the environment before printing this email.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://orion.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
Mungai S. Mbugua
CTO Elimu Holdings Limited
sospeter@elimu.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
@Shadrack WIndows isn't more popular(on the desktop market) than Linux because they ignored security measures but because they made things simpler for the users of their technology,just like the writer of this post seeks to do!I do not agree with you when you say "...As long as you solve a user need, users will be happy to live with minor issues such as security..." especially when the 'Minor Issues' could mean having an eRigged or mRigged president(or at least some political leaders). I would argue that the model to be used on this should be : Innovate > Deal with challenges e.g Security > Deploy > Improve As opposed to Innovate > Ignore Problems > Deploy > Suffer Consequences > Try to deal with numerous challenges > Loose people's trust > Abandon project due to public pressure(or Civil Society humiliation)! :) On 13 February 2012 16:50, Shadrack Mwaniki <shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com>wrote:
@Okechukwa, And that is why windows has over 90% markshare of desktops business. While Unix developers are obsessed with security, windows understands that a home user is least concerned with security but geting a solution to a problem
As long as you solve a user need, users will be happy to live with minor issues such as security.
For any system, i believe the first priority is to give a solution to a need/problem/challenge. Second, is to cosider the cost implication of the solution.
Sucurity and other peripheral bottle necks should not form the basis of any solutions. Securing a system is the easiest thing to achieve of all technical aspects of a solution development
I may be wrong though
Regards Shadrack
----- Original Message ----- From: Okechukwu <okechukwu@gmail.com> To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Cc: Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 4:02 PM Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] voting on mobile
Software wise, that is the reason why Windoze suffers with security issues while Linux is an underlying safehouse - The building blocks in a software matters more than just getting out and making money - IMHO
./Ok3ch
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 3:47 PM, Mungai S. Mbugua <sospeter@elimu.co.ke> wrote:
@okechukwu, but that is the point right there, we are supposed to build a solution then worry about the security when the need arises.
Banks long ago didn't have security features till when the need arose. In Kenya banks now have safes, alarms, cctv, security guards, APs and Police, Escort services etc.
Note: all the features above did not come at the same time, right?
My cents.
@Shadrack - Totally agree with you on seizing the moment, but also that is the reason why most softwares have gaping holes in them, not building, for example, security from the bottom up - IMHO
./Ok3ch
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Shadrack Mwaniki < shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Odhiambo, It is very true that Airtel, then Kencell was given the idea of Mpesa in early 2002. I was part of the team that presented the idea. It had come from a S. africa company that had wanted to do mobile money Their idea was formed by the fact that money transfer in Kenya was expensive. They had done a small research and established that most kenyans sent money via freinds, matutus, buses and most teeliing, via post office normal letter which got stolen by posta staff.
The two guys approach us in IT department and we sold the idea to our chief who organised for meeting with management.
The reason the idea was shot down was on the basis of how to manage the atual cash. When a user wants to deposit cash, he has to go to the bank. Yet they were the same banks were the problem we were trying to address.
when one guy suggested partnering with Charity sweepstake to use their small booths for depost and withdrwals, the whole meeting went into a chorus about insecurity and the risk involved. One manager even insinuated how africans will run with the money at the end of day.
Anyway, the rest is history. I don't know how the idea several years later ended into the MJ desk. He was able to see the picture and ordered that it be implemented. All the emerging issues would be sorted out later.
Lesson: Innovation requires you focus on the big picture and the state of success. Let's deal with the obstacles when they arise. I believe many of the issues on the mobile voting can easily be sorted our as the idea is developed.
Modification Instead of a mobile application, why not have an OCR enabled ballot papers. The ballot box has a canner that automatically tallies the votes as they come. At the close of voting, all results from each polling station are automatically tallied at the central tallying centre database
Regards Shad
------------------------------ *From:* Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>
*To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2012 6:01 PM
*Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] voting on mobile
And @Gichingiri's idea becomes "still born"!
Kenyan's yawa. Instead of trying to nurture/develop an idea you just shoot it down?.
You are all like Celtel (or what was it called then?) who (so I hear) were given the M-Pesa idea and they said it CANNOT work.
BTW, is it really true ama hizo 'zinakuwaga' rumours?? :-)
I suggest all members of this forum buy the best flowers & chocolates for their mates. Shoot that down too.<LOL>
Heppy Furahiday!!
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 17:57, Kevin Oeba <oeba.kevin@gmail.com> wrote:
Gentlemen,
Putting the technical aspects aside, alot of factors come into play.
1. Does the law allow us to vote through any other means, except through the ballot ?
2. The government may need to budget, plan , etc for this sort of voting. Voter education , public awareness.
3. Going by the political events in the Kenyan arena, I would propose you bring up the issue in the next election.
Brilliant idea but I see alot of obstacles along the way...
Kind regards,
Kevin
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 5:48 PM, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com> wrote:
Good.But you cannot "imagine" in a vacuum,you have to consider all the technologies we have.Unless you want to "imagine",write good papers about it and leave it at that without implementing it!Most Kenyans have feature phones,the only way to implement the system and ensure everyone can use it is by using USSD and other like technologies.
On 10 February 2012 17:42, Gichingiri Kuria <gmail@gichingiri.com> wrote:
Ok, remove the USSD aspect. Imagine a system that is very simple to use, yet secure and works right. "Imagine" is just the first step...
On 10 February 2012 17:28, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com> wrote:
The idea looks brilliant on paper but if you look at the technical details you will discover it's not!USSD is not secure enough for this kind of work.
On 10 February 2012 17:23, Emmanuel Ochieng <emmanuelochieng797@gmail.com>wrote:
Hi,
@ Gichingiri Kuria, it can work well but consider a scenario where a Politician gathers a crowd of people and dishes out cash after confirming that you voted for him through your mobile phone!!! That will ruin the whole exercise....
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 6:13 AM, Gichingiri Kuria <gmail@gichingiri.com>wrote:
Hi all,
Since mpesa has worked so well in Kenya, how about we put the next general elections on mobile using USSD.
As you register to vote, you can choose to vote via mobile and provide the number that you will use. Come election day, prompts will be sent to batches of users to vote.
If done right, more people will vote and results will be out faster.
-- Gichingiri Kuria _________________________________________ www.website.co.ke / www.sokoletu.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Kind regards.
Moses Muya
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Gichingiri Kuria _________________________________________ www.website.co.ke / www.sokoletu.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Kind regards.
Moses Muya
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. Please consider the environment before printing this email.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
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Mungai S. Mbugua
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-- Kind regards. Moses Muya
@Moses - I couldn't have said it better, thank you! ./Ok3ch On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 5:09 PM, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com> wrote:
@Shadrack
WIndows isn't more popular(on the desktop market) than Linux because they ignored security measures but because they made things simpler for the users of their technology,just like the writer of this post seeks to do!I do not agree with you when you say "...As long as you solve a user need, users will be happy to live with minor issues such as security..." especially when the 'Minor Issues' could mean having an eRigged or mRigged president(or at least some political leaders).
I would argue that the model to be used on this should be : Innovate > Deal with challenges e.g Security > Deploy > Improve As opposed to Innovate > Ignore Problems > Deploy > Suffer Consequences > Try to deal with numerous challenges > Loose people's trust > Abandon project due to public pressure(or Civil Society humiliation)! :)
On 13 February 2012 16:50, Shadrack Mwaniki <shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote:
@Okechukwa, And that is why windows has over 90% markshare of desktops business. While Unix developers are obsessed with security, windows understands that a home user is least concerned with security but geting a solution to a problem
As long as you solve a user need, users will be happy to live with minor issues such as security.
For any system, i believe the first priority is to give a solution to a need/problem/challenge. Second, is to cosider the cost implication of the solution.
Sucurity and other peripheral bottle necks should not form the basis of any solutions. Securing a system is the easiest thing to achieve of all technical aspects of a solution development
I may be wrong though
Regards Shadrack
----- Original Message ----- From: Okechukwu <okechukwu@gmail.com> To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Cc: Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 4:02 PM Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] voting on mobile
Software wise, that is the reason why Windoze suffers with security issues while Linux is an underlying safehouse - The building blocks in a software matters more than just getting out and making money - IMHO
./Ok3ch
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 3:47 PM, Mungai S. Mbugua <sospeter@elimu.co.ke> wrote:
@okechukwu, but that is the point right there, we are supposed to build a solution then worry about the security when the need arises.
Banks long ago didn't have security features till when the need arose. In Kenya banks now have safes, alarms, cctv, security guards, APs and Police, Escort services etc.
Note: all the features above did not come at the same time, right?
My cents.
@Shadrack - Totally agree with you on seizing the moment, but also that is the reason why most softwares have gaping holes in them, not building, for example, security from the bottom up - IMHO
./Ok3ch
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Shadrack Mwaniki < shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Odhiambo, It is very true that Airtel, then Kencell was given the idea of Mpesa in early 2002. I was part of the team that presented the idea. It had come from a S. africa company that had wanted to do mobile money Their idea was formed by the fact that money transfer in Kenya was expensive. They had done a small research and established that most kenyans sent money via freinds, matutus, buses and most teeliing, via post office normal letter which got stolen by posta staff.
The two guys approach us in IT department and we sold the idea to our chief who organised for meeting with management.
The reason the idea was shot down was on the basis of how to manage the atual cash. When a user wants to deposit cash, he has to go to the bank. Yet they were the same banks were the problem we were trying to address.
when one guy suggested partnering with Charity sweepstake to use their small booths for depost and withdrwals, the whole meeting went into a chorus about insecurity and the risk involved. One manager even insinuated how africans will run with the money at the end of day.
Anyway, the rest is history. I don't know how the idea several years later ended into the MJ desk. He was able to see the picture and ordered that it be implemented. All the emerging issues would be sorted out later.
Lesson: Innovation requires you focus on the big picture and the state of success. Let's deal with the obstacles when they arise. I believe many of the issues on the mobile voting can easily be sorted our as the idea is developed.
Modification Instead of a mobile application, why not have an OCR enabled ballot papers. The ballot box has a canner that automatically tallies the votes as they come. At the close of voting, all results from each polling station are automatically tallied at the central tallying centre database
Regards Shad
------------------------------ *From:* Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>
*To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2012 6:01 PM
*Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] voting on mobile
And @Gichingiri's idea becomes "still born"!
Kenyan's yawa. Instead of trying to nurture/develop an idea you just shoot it down?.
You are all like Celtel (or what was it called then?) who (so I hear) were given the M-Pesa idea and they said it CANNOT work.
BTW, is it really true ama hizo 'zinakuwaga' rumours?? :-)
I suggest all members of this forum buy the best flowers & chocolates for their mates. Shoot that down too.<LOL>
Heppy Furahiday!!
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 17:57, Kevin Oeba <oeba.kevin@gmail.com> wrote:
Gentlemen,
Putting the technical aspects aside, alot of factors come into play.
1. Does the law allow us to vote through any other means, except through the ballot ?
2. The government may need to budget, plan , etc for this sort of voting. Voter education , public awareness.
3. Going by the political events in the Kenyan arena, I would propose you bring up the issue in the next election.
Brilliant idea but I see alot of obstacles along the way...
Kind regards,
Kevin
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 5:48 PM, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com> wrote:
Good.But you cannot "imagine" in a vacuum,you have to consider all the technologies we have.Unless you want to "imagine",write good papers about it and leave it at that without implementing it!Most Kenyans have feature phones,the only way to implement the system and ensure everyone can use it is by using USSD and other like technologies.
On 10 February 2012 17:42, Gichingiri Kuria <gmail@gichingiri.com> wrote:
Ok, remove the USSD aspect. Imagine a system that is very simple to use, yet secure and works right. "Imagine" is just the first step...
On 10 February 2012 17:28, Moses Muya <mouzmuyer@gmail.com> wrote:
The idea looks brilliant on paper but if you look at the technical details you will discover it's not!USSD is not secure enough for this kind of work.
On 10 February 2012 17:23, Emmanuel Ochieng <emmanuelochieng797@gmail.com>wrote:
Hi,
@ Gichingiri Kuria, it can work well but consider a scenario where a Politician gathers a crowd of people and dishes out cash after confirming that you voted for him through your mobile phone!!! That will ruin the whole exercise....
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 6:13 AM, Gichingiri Kuria <gmail@gichingiri.com>wrote:
Hi all,
Since mpesa has worked so well in Kenya, how about we put the next general elections on mobile using USSD.
As you register to vote, you can choose to vote via mobile and provide the number that you will use. Come election day, prompts will be sent to batches of users to vote.
If done right, more people will vote and results will be out faster.
-- Gichingiri Kuria _________________________________________ www.website.co.ke / www.sokoletu.co.ke
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-- Kind regards.
Moses Muya
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-- Gichingiri Kuria _________________________________________ www.website.co.ke / www.sokoletu.co.ke
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-- Kind regards.
Moses Muya
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-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. Please consider the environment before printing this email.
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-- Kind regards.
Moses Muya
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Some thoughts on this:
1. Does the law allow us to vote through any other means, except through the ballot ?
The Kenya Electoral Act 2011 has the what may prove to be the most powerful sentence even written by the Kenyan parliament! Section 44 reads: "44. The Commission may use such technology as it considers appropriate in the electoral process." The broad and deliberately vague sentence was strategic and a result of a lot of lobbying! While people spent time arguing about everything else, this sentence sailed through untouched. So, if the IEBC feels USSD, e-voting booths, email etc is appropriate then it is covered by law! This one sentence actually throws a big challenge and opportunity to us, the Kenyan tech community! 1. We have to not only be involved but actually LEAD the conversation on appropriate technology. Thanks Kuria for starting this thread, it a good example of this principle! 2. We have to be as techies VERY concerned about the make up of the commission AND be proactive in engaging them in conversations on technology. We have to show them what is possible and that we have the skills, capacity and professionalism to deliver.
participants (13)
-
Collins Areba -
Daudi Were -
Emmanuel Ochieng -
Gichingiri Kuria -
Kevin Oeba -
Kinuthia Ngugi -
Moses Muya -
Mungai S. Mbugua -
muteti＠gmail.com -
Odhiambo Washington -
Okechukwu -
Shadrack Mwaniki -
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