Every time a new tech launches, Man craves it. Granted it takes a while to implement for example the automobile transition from Horse and Carriage. But once it picks up.. e.g. the iOS devices, Man goes GAGA! What's the internet doing to us? Open discussion here. Is it making us a smarter community? more knowledgeable? more intelligent or just more flick information dependent? The general and most widely used internet terminology i know of today is.. Google it! heck, i use it too. But question is, how many of us actually read a book in this glorious day of the information highway? And yes, i do know it's a friday night. Watchman. -- ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. For the dark things cannot stand the light.
Can only speak for myself but the Internet has shifted me from having to know things to be able to look for things. Being able to recite a poem or remember an exact quote does not make sense any longer as it is more important to know how to find this information than it is to know it. A lot of schools have unfortunately not caught up yet. It is not necessarily a bad thing but people who are not able to make the shift (learn how to find reliable information) will be left behind. I grew up without television so I still read a lot but only novels not tech books. Don't think the Internet is that much about craving tech, more about information being freely available. On 12/03/2010 11:45 PM, Watchman wrote:
Every time a new tech launches, Man craves it. Granted it takes a while to implement for example the automobile transition from Horse and Carriage. But once it picks up.. e.g. the iOS devices, Man goes GAGA!
What's the internet doing to us?
Open discussion here.
Is it making us a smarter community? more knowledgeable? more intelligent or just more flick information dependent?
The general and most widely used internet terminology i know of today is.. Google it!
heck, i use it too. But question is, how many of us actually read a book in this glorious day of the information highway?
And yes, i do know it's a friday night.
Watchman.
Tragic to some. ever heard about someone who had an accident and rather than help, people took out there phones and started recording it. It does make us feel like who we are not. On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 12:26 AM, Jonas | Lamu Software < jonas@lamusoftware.com> wrote:
Can only speak for myself but the Internet has shifted me from having to know things to be able to look for things. Being able to recite a poem or remember an exact quote does not make sense any longer as it is more important to know how to find this information than it is to know it. A lot of schools have unfortunately not caught up yet.
It is not necessarily a bad thing but people who are not able to make the shift (learn how to find reliable information) will be left behind.
I grew up without television so I still read a lot but only novels not tech books.
Don't think the Internet is that much about craving tech, more about information being freely available.
On 12/03/2010 11:45 PM, Watchman wrote:
Every time a new tech launches, Man craves it. Granted it takes a while to implement for example the automobile transition from Horse and Carriage. But once it picks up.. e.g. the iOS devices, Man goes GAGA!
What's the internet doing to us?
Open discussion here.
Is it making us a smarter community? more knowledgeable? more intelligent or just more flick information dependent?
The general and most widely used internet terminology i know of today is.. Google it!
heck, i use it too. But question is, how many of us actually read a book in this glorious day of the information highway?
And yes, i do know it's a friday night.
Watchman.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
Dear Watchman, The internet does all that you have mentioned. It is not necessarily bad that one no longer reads books. They still get the information, whether it is through reading or injecting it into the system. At the moment, we still read, but not books. Some of us listen too. Man works through information and the human race will survive through getting more information, which will make them come up with different ways of doing stuff. Remember we started with sticks and stones for tools to metal and now plastics and sand and soon graphene....see? As for schools not having caught up, that will happen soon enough. I'm in the business of providing a paradigm shift towards IT in schools. If the government encourages this, we will get all schools online ama? My Cents, Regards.
Tragic to some. ever heard about someone who had an accident and rather than help, people took out there phones and started recording it. It does make us feel like who we are not.
On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 12:26 AM, Jonas | Lamu Software < jonas@lamusoftware.com> wrote:
Can only speak for myself but the Internet has shifted me from having to know things to be able to look for things. Being able to recite a poem or remember an exact quote does not make sense any longer as it is more important to know how to find this information than it is to know it. A lot of schools have unfortunately not caught up yet.
It is not necessarily a bad thing but people who are not able to make the shift (learn how to find reliable information) will be left behind.
I grew up without television so I still read a lot but only novels not tech books.
Don't think the Internet is that much about craving tech, more about information being freely available.
On 12/03/2010 11:45 PM, Watchman wrote:
Every time a new tech launches, Man craves it. Granted it takes a while to implement for example the automobile transition from Horse and Carriage. But once it picks up.. e.g. the iOS devices, Man goes GAGA!
What's the internet doing to us?
Open discussion here.
Is it making us a smarter community? more knowledgeable? more intelligent or just more flick information dependent?
The general and most widely used internet terminology i know of today is.. Google it!
heck, i use it too. But question is, how many of us actually read a book in this glorious day of the information highway?
And yes, i do know it's a friday night.
Watchman.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
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@Jonas "has shifted me from having to know things to be able to look for things. Being able to recite a poem or remember an exact quote does not make sense any longer as it is more important to know how to find this information than it is to know it" Isn't that what i've just advocated against? Does this not mean that what we are doing encourages us to rely on a non-experiential lifestyle? When wanting to watch a new movie. What do you do first? @Muoki Cryptic. But true. @sospeter Compelling argument however when does this stop becoming a reference and become a lifestyle or moreover a necessary human function? Should it become a human function, when does it stop becoming a reference and become an influence? Watchman. On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 9:53 AM, <sospeter@elimu.co.ke> wrote:
Dear Watchman,
The internet does all that you have mentioned. It is not necessarily bad that one no longer reads books. They still get the information, whether it is through reading or injecting it into the system.
At the moment, we still read, but not books. Some of us listen too.
Man works through information and the human race will survive through getting more information, which will make them come up with different ways of doing stuff. Remember we started with sticks and stones for tools to metal and now plastics and sand and soon graphene....see?
As for schools not having caught up, that will happen soon enough. I'm in the business of providing a paradigm shift towards IT in schools. If the government encourages this, we will get all schools online ama?
My Cents, Regards.
Tragic to some. ever heard about someone who had an accident and rather than help, people took out there phones and started recording it. It does make us feel like who we are not.
On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 12:26 AM, Jonas | Lamu Software < jonas@lamusoftware.com> wrote:
Can only speak for myself but the Internet has shifted me from having to know things to be able to look for things. Being able to recite a poem or remember an exact quote does not make sense any longer as it is more important to know how to find this information than it is to know it. A lot of schools have unfortunately not caught up yet.
It is not necessarily a bad thing but people who are not able to make the shift (learn how to find reliable information) will be left behind.
I grew up without television so I still read a lot but only novels not tech books.
Don't think the Internet is that much about craving tech, more about information being freely available.
On 12/03/2010 11:45 PM, Watchman wrote:
Every time a new tech launches, Man craves it. Granted it takes a while to implement for example the automobile transition from Horse and Carriage. But once it picks up.. e.g. the iOS devices, Man goes GAGA!
What's the internet doing to us?
Open discussion here.
Is it making us a smarter community? more knowledgeable? more intelligent or just more flick information dependent?
The general and most widely used internet terminology i know of today is.. Google it!
heck, i use it too. But question is, how many of us actually read a book in this glorious day of the information highway?
And yes, i do know it's a friday night.
Watchman.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
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-- ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. For the dark things cannot stand the light.
Does information gotten from watching a 20hour series from a youtube educational playlist from say Stanford channel any less useful than that gotten from reading a book? Man has and will always learn new things to survive. The medium through which the information is received has always changed and will always change. When books were invented man shifted from smoke signals to books. Books are great but at some point man had to let go of the smoke signals. To heat up this discussion up a little, does watching House TV series make us dumb? (As opposed to reading a sci-fi novel). Does the fact that some of these TV shows' scripts are so intensely researched that they even have panels of writers make them better than good old books? D On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 11:45 AM, Watchman <skunkingrahim@gmail.com> wrote:
@Jonas
"has shifted me from having to know things to be able to look for things. Being able to recite a poem or remember an exact quote does not make sense any longer as it is more important to know how to find this information than it is to know it"
Isn't that what i've just advocated against? Does this not mean that what we are doing encourages us to rely on a non-experiential lifestyle? When wanting to watch a new movie. What do you do first?
@Muoki Cryptic. But true.
@sospeter
Compelling argument however when does this stop becoming a reference and become a lifestyle or moreover a necessary human function? Should it become a human function, when does it stop becoming a reference and become an influence?
Watchman.
On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 9:53 AM, <sospeter@elimu.co.ke> wrote:
Dear Watchman,
The internet does all that you have mentioned. It is not necessarily bad that one no longer reads books. They still get the information, whether it is through reading or injecting it into the system.
At the moment, we still read, but not books. Some of us listen too.
Man works through information and the human race will survive through getting more information, which will make them come up with different ways of doing stuff. Remember we started with sticks and stones for tools to metal and now plastics and sand and soon graphene....see?
As for schools not having caught up, that will happen soon enough. I'm in the business of providing a paradigm shift towards IT in schools. If the government encourages this, we will get all schools online ama?
My Cents, Regards.
Tragic to some. ever heard about someone who had an accident and rather than help, people took out there phones and started recording it. It does make us feel like who we are not.
On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 12:26 AM, Jonas | Lamu Software < jonas@lamusoftware.com> wrote:
Can only speak for myself but the Internet has shifted me from having to know things to be able to look for things. Being able to recite a poem or remember an exact quote does not make sense any longer as it is more important to know how to find this information than it is to know it. A lot of schools have unfortunately not caught up yet.
It is not necessarily a bad thing but people who are not able to make the shift (learn how to find reliable information) will be left behind.
I grew up without television so I still read a lot but only novels not tech books.
Don't think the Internet is that much about craving tech, more about information being freely available.
On 12/03/2010 11:45 PM, Watchman wrote:
Every time a new tech launches, Man craves it. Granted it takes a while to implement for example the automobile transition from Horse and Carriage. But once it picks up.. e.g. the iOS devices, Man goes GAGA!
What's the internet doing to us?
Open discussion here.
Is it making us a smarter community? more knowledgeable? more intelligent or just more flick information dependent?
The general and most widely used internet terminology i know of today is.. Google it!
heck, i use it too. But question is, how many of us actually read a book in this glorious day of the information highway?
And yes, i do know it's a friday night.
Watchman.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
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-- ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. For the dark things cannot stand the light.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
@David. Agree with you,however i'm more keen on understanding whether we are actually acquiring more information and growing, or are we retaining only bits of information instead of learning. Yes. The internet has truly transformed what we know as information retrieval. We have everything at our disposal, yet statistically, we are not as intelligent as we should be. According to the 2008 report information Behavior of the researcher of the Future, commissioned by the British library and the joint Information Systems Committee: *" Deep log studies show that, from undergraduates to professors, people exhibit a strong tendency toward shallow, horizontal, 'flicking' behavior in digital libraries. Society is dumbing down."* Now, their question is similar to what i am saying which is, what are we doing, are we reading and learning or are we simply referencing and leaving? granted, we do take a piece of the cake with us but unless i'm mistaken, in the yester years, it would be a matter of reading through an entire book, gain the knowledge, understanding and the context of the book before writing a thesis paper and then citing the reference. Today, i am more than certain it is a matter of understanding who wrote the paper / book, get online, read the synopsis, get a brief, get information fast and then write your paper with citations. This is not true to 100% of people, it is an example. Watchman. On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 3:51 PM, David Njuguna <dnjuguna@gmail.com> wrote:
Does information gotten from watching a 20hour series from a youtube educational playlist from say Stanford channel any less useful than that gotten from reading a book?
Man has and will always learn new things to survive. The medium through which the information is received has always changed and will always change. When books were invented man shifted from smoke signals to books. Books are great but at some point man had to let go of the smoke signals.
To heat up this discussion up a little, does watching House TV series make us dumb? (As opposed to reading a sci-fi novel). Does the fact that some of these TV shows' scripts are so intensely researched that they even have panels of writers make them better than good old books?
D
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 11:45 AM, Watchman <skunkingrahim@gmail.com> wrote:
@Jonas
"has shifted me from having to know things to be able to look for things. Being able to recite a poem or remember an exact quote does not make sense any longer as it is more important to know how to find this information than it is to know it"
Isn't that what i've just advocated against? Does this not mean that what we are doing encourages us to rely on a non-experiential lifestyle? When wanting to watch a new movie. What do you do first?
@Muoki Cryptic. But true.
@sospeter
Compelling argument however when does this stop becoming a reference and become a lifestyle or moreover a necessary human function? Should it become a human function, when does it stop becoming a reference and become an influence?
Watchman.
On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 9:53 AM, <sospeter@elimu.co.ke> wrote:
Dear Watchman,
The internet does all that you have mentioned. It is not necessarily bad that one no longer reads books. They still get the information, whether it is through reading or injecting it into the system.
At the moment, we still read, but not books. Some of us listen too.
Man works through information and the human race will survive through getting more information, which will make them come up with different ways of doing stuff. Remember we started with sticks and stones for tools to metal and now plastics and sand and soon graphene....see?
As for schools not having caught up, that will happen soon enough. I'm in the business of providing a paradigm shift towards IT in schools. If the government encourages this, we will get all schools online ama?
My Cents, Regards.
Tragic to some. ever heard about someone who had an accident and rather than help, people took out there phones and started recording it. It does make us feel like who we are not.
On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 12:26 AM, Jonas | Lamu Software < jonas@lamusoftware.com> wrote:
Can only speak for myself but the Internet has shifted me from having to know things to be able to look for things. Being able to recite a poem or remember an exact quote does not make sense any longer as it is more important to know how to find this information than it is to know it. A lot of schools have unfortunately not caught up yet.
It is not necessarily a bad thing but people who are not able to make the shift (learn how to find reliable information) will be left behind.
I grew up without television so I still read a lot but only novels not tech books.
Don't think the Internet is that much about craving tech, more about information being freely available.
On 12/03/2010 11:45 PM, Watchman wrote:
Every time a new tech launches, Man craves it. Granted it takes a while to implement for example the automobile transition from Horse and Carriage. But once it picks up.. e.g. the iOS devices, Man goes GAGA!
What's the internet doing to us?
Open discussion here.
Is it making us a smarter community? more knowledgeable? more intelligent or just more flick information dependent?
The general and most widely used internet terminology i know of today is.. Google it!
heck, i use it too. But question is, how many of us actually read a book in this glorious day of the information highway?
And yes, i do know it's a friday night.
Watchman.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
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-- ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. For the dark things cannot stand the light.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
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-- ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. For the dark things cannot stand the light.
there is nothing worse than somebody who over estimates his knowledge on a subject- limited knowledge is more dangerous than ignorance, i think google should be used for reference purposes and not for actual learning as this will damage our education system On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 4:16 PM, Watchman <skunkingrahim@gmail.com> wrote:
@David.
Agree with you,however i'm more keen on understanding whether we are actually acquiring more information and growing, or are we retaining only bits of information instead of learning. Yes. The internet has truly transformed what we know as information retrieval. We have everything at our disposal, yet statistically, we are not as intelligent as we should be.
According to the 2008 report information Behavior of the researcher of the Future, commissioned by the British library and the joint Information Systems Committee: *" Deep log studies show that, from undergraduates to professors, people exhibit a strong tendency toward shallow, horizontal, 'flicking' behavior in digital libraries. Society is dumbing down."*
Now, their question is similar to what i am saying which is, what are we doing, are we reading and learning or are we simply referencing and leaving? granted, we do take a piece of the cake with us but unless i'm mistaken, in the yester years, it would be a matter of reading through an entire book, gain the knowledge, understanding and the context of the book before writing a thesis paper and then citing the reference. Today, i am more than certain it is a matter of understanding who wrote the paper / book, get online, read the synopsis, get a brief, get information fast and then write your paper with citations.
This is not true to 100% of people, it is an example.
Watchman.
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 3:51 PM, David Njuguna <dnjuguna@gmail.com> wrote:
Does information gotten from watching a 20hour series from a youtube educational playlist from say Stanford channel any less useful than that gotten from reading a book?
Man has and will always learn new things to survive. The medium through which the information is received has always changed and will always change. When books were invented man shifted from smoke signals to books. Books are great but at some point man had to let go of the smoke signals.
To heat up this discussion up a little, does watching House TV series make us dumb? (As opposed to reading a sci-fi novel). Does the fact that some of these TV shows' scripts are so intensely researched that they even have panels of writers make them better than good old books?
D
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 11:45 AM, Watchman <skunkingrahim@gmail.com>wrote:
@Jonas
"has shifted me from having to know things to be able to look for things. Being able to recite a poem or remember an exact quote does not make sense any longer as it is more important to know how to find this information than it is to know it"
Isn't that what i've just advocated against? Does this not mean that what we are doing encourages us to rely on a non-experiential lifestyle? When wanting to watch a new movie. What do you do first?
@Muoki Cryptic. But true.
@sospeter
Compelling argument however when does this stop becoming a reference and become a lifestyle or moreover a necessary human function? Should it become a human function, when does it stop becoming a reference and become an influence?
Watchman.
On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 9:53 AM, <sospeter@elimu.co.ke> wrote:
Dear Watchman,
The internet does all that you have mentioned. It is not necessarily bad that one no longer reads books. They still get the information, whether it is through reading or injecting it into the system.
At the moment, we still read, but not books. Some of us listen too.
Man works through information and the human race will survive through getting more information, which will make them come up with different ways of doing stuff. Remember we started with sticks and stones for tools to metal and now plastics and sand and soon graphene....see?
As for schools not having caught up, that will happen soon enough. I'm in the business of providing a paradigm shift towards IT in schools. If the government encourages this, we will get all schools online ama?
My Cents, Regards.
Tragic to some. ever heard about someone who had an accident and rather than help, people took out there phones and started recording it. It does make us feel like who we are not.
On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 12:26 AM, Jonas | Lamu Software < jonas@lamusoftware.com> wrote:
Can only speak for myself but the Internet has shifted me from having to know things to be able to look for things. Being able to recite a poem or remember an exact quote does not make sense any longer as it is more important to know how to find this information than it is to know it. A lot of schools have unfortunately not caught up yet.
It is not necessarily a bad thing but people who are not able to make the shift (learn how to find reliable information) will be left behind.
I grew up without television so I still read a lot but only novels not tech books.
Don't think the Internet is that much about craving tech, more about information being freely available.
On 12/03/2010 11:45 PM, Watchman wrote:
> Every time a new tech launches, Man craves it. Granted it takes a while > to implement for example the automobile transition from Horse and > Carriage. But once it picks up.. e.g. the iOS devices, Man goes GAGA! > > What's the internet doing to us? > > Open discussion here. > > Is it making us a smarter community? more knowledgeable? more > intelligent or just more flick information dependent? > > The general and most widely used internet terminology i know of today > is.. Google it! > > heck, i use it too. But question is, how many of us actually read a > book > in this glorious day of the information highway? > > And yes, i do know it's a friday night. > > Watchman. > _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
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-- ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. For the dark things cannot stand the light.
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-- ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. For the dark things cannot stand the light.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
@Watchie, I do not think there is a problem if the student or anyone who wishes to project his opinion on any subject, goes online and gets intimate with the relevant published material, digests it and then presents what he was able to extract from it. However, there is a huge problem if a discussion is carried out with en.wikipedia.org, bit.ly and fb.me links. It usually leads me to ask "ok so you referenced a great article/research paper by one Prof Watchman Nee, but what are your own thoughts on the matter?" or "have you explored the matter by yourself, with your mind free of the writers' encumbrances and biases?". Thats the kind of intimacy I am referring to .. ;-) With the huge resource that the internets has become, it is now virtually impossible to catch your student plagiarising his/her term paper - esp here in Kenya where lecturers are technophobic. (Ironically, this technophobia applies to a good number of Comp. Sc lecturers as well, but thats fodder for another flame.) So in this I agree with you that more and more people are getting degrees via copy-paste, but those who are hungry for real knowledge and are genuinely passionate about what they are pursuing are finding the interwebs to be a God-sent. Shall we forgo these shujaas to curb a few cheats ? On 05/12/2010, Watchman <skunkingrahim@gmail.com> wrote:
@David.
Agree with you,however i'm more keen on understanding whether we are actually acquiring more information and growing, or are we retaining only bits of information instead of learning. Yes. The internet has truly transformed what we know as information retrieval. We have everything at our disposal, yet statistically, we are not as intelligent as we should be.
According to the 2008 report information Behavior of the researcher of the Future, commissioned by the British library and the joint Information Systems Committee: *" Deep log studies show that, from undergraduates to professors, people exhibit a strong tendency toward shallow, horizontal, 'flicking' behavior in digital libraries. Society is dumbing down."*
Now, their question is similar to what i am saying which is, what are we doing, are we reading and learning or are we simply referencing and leaving? granted, we do take a piece of the cake with us but unless i'm mistaken, in the yester years, it would be a matter of reading through an entire book, gain the knowledge, understanding and the context of the book before writing a thesis paper and then citing the reference. Today, i am more than certain it is a matter of understanding who wrote the paper / book, get online, read the synopsis, get a brief, get information fast and then write your paper with citations.
This is not true to 100% of people, it is an example.
Watchman.
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 3:51 PM, David Njuguna <dnjuguna@gmail.com> wrote:
Does information gotten from watching a 20hour series from a youtube educational playlist from say Stanford channel any less useful than that gotten from reading a book?
Man has and will always learn new things to survive. The medium through which the information is received has always changed and will always change. When books were invented man shifted from smoke signals to books. Books are great but at some point man had to let go of the smoke signals.
To heat up this discussion up a little, does watching House TV series make us dumb? (As opposed to reading a sci-fi novel). Does the fact that some of these TV shows' scripts are so intensely researched that they even have panels of writers make them better than good old books?
D
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 11:45 AM, Watchman <skunkingrahim@gmail.com> wrote:
@Jonas
"has shifted me from having to know things to be able to look for things. Being able to recite a poem or remember an exact quote does not make sense any longer as it is more important to know how to find this information than it is to know it"
Isn't that what i've just advocated against? Does this not mean that what we are doing encourages us to rely on a non-experiential lifestyle? When wanting to watch a new movie. What do you do first?
@Muoki Cryptic. But true.
@sospeter
Compelling argument however when does this stop becoming a reference and become a lifestyle or moreover a necessary human function? Should it become a human function, when does it stop becoming a reference and become an influence?
Watchman.
On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 9:53 AM, <sospeter@elimu.co.ke> wrote:
Dear Watchman,
The internet does all that you have mentioned. It is not necessarily bad that one no longer reads books. They still get the information, whether it is through reading or injecting it into the system.
At the moment, we still read, but not books. Some of us listen too.
Man works through information and the human race will survive through getting more information, which will make them come up with different ways of doing stuff. Remember we started with sticks and stones for tools to metal and now plastics and sand and soon graphene....see?
As for schools not having caught up, that will happen soon enough. I'm in the business of providing a paradigm shift towards IT in schools. If the government encourages this, we will get all schools online ama?
My Cents, Regards.
Tragic to some. ever heard about someone who had an accident and rather than help, people took out there phones and started recording it. It does make us feel like who we are not.
On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 12:26 AM, Jonas | Lamu Software < jonas@lamusoftware.com> wrote:
Can only speak for myself but the Internet has shifted me from having to know things to be able to look for things. Being able to recite a poem or remember an exact quote does not make sense any longer as it is more important to know how to find this information than it is to know it. A lot of schools have unfortunately not caught up yet.
It is not necessarily a bad thing but people who are not able to make the shift (learn how to find reliable information) will be left behind.
I grew up without television so I still read a lot but only novels not tech books.
Don't think the Internet is that much about craving tech, more about information being freely available.
On 12/03/2010 11:45 PM, Watchman wrote:
> Every time a new tech launches, Man craves it. Granted it takes a while > to implement for example the automobile transition from Horse and > Carriage. But once it picks up.. e.g. the iOS devices, Man goes > GAGA! > > What's the internet doing to us? > > Open discussion here. > > Is it making us a smarter community? more knowledgeable? more > intelligent or just more flick information dependent? > > The general and most widely used internet terminology i know of > today > is.. Google it! > > heck, i use it too. But question is, how many of us actually read a > book > in this glorious day of the information highway? > > And yes, i do know it's a friday night. > > Watchman. > _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. For the dark things cannot stand the light.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. For the dark things cannot stand the light.
Speaking for myself: I read books (yes hardcover, paper backs) a lot - roughly 2-3 a month, as well as magazines, and still an avid reader of stuff online as well. Something else to throw out there: Movie vs Book - I'd read The Bourne Trilogy over watching than watching the movies... -- Josiah Mugambi 2010/12/5 Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com>
@Watchie,
I do not think there is a problem if the student or anyone who wishes to project his opinion on any subject, goes online and gets intimate with the relevant published material, digests it and then presents what he was able to extract from it. However, there is a huge problem if a discussion is carried out with en.wikipedia.org, bit.ly and fb.me links. It usually leads me to ask "ok so you referenced a great article/research paper by one Prof Watchman Nee, but what are your own thoughts on the matter?" or "have you explored the matter by yourself, with your mind free of the writers' encumbrances and biases?". Thats the kind of intimacy I am referring to .. ;-)
With the huge resource that the internets has become, it is now virtually impossible to catch your student plagiarising his/her term paper - esp here in Kenya where lecturers are technophobic. (Ironically, this technophobia applies to a good number of Comp. Sc lecturers as well, but thats fodder for another flame.) So in this I agree with you that more and more people are getting degrees via copy-paste, but those who are hungry for real knowledge and are genuinely passionate about what they are pursuing are finding the interwebs to be a God-sent. Shall we forgo these shujaas to curb a few cheats ?
On 05/12/2010, Watchman <skunkingrahim@gmail.com> wrote:
@David.
Agree with you,however i'm more keen on understanding whether we are actually acquiring more information and growing, or are we retaining only bits of information instead of learning. Yes. The internet has truly transformed what we know as information retrieval. We have everything at our disposal, yet statistically, we are not as intelligent as we should be.
According to the 2008 report information Behavior of the researcher of the Future, commissioned by the British library and the joint Information Systems Committee: *" Deep log studies show that, from undergraduates to professors, people exhibit a strong tendency toward shallow, horizontal, 'flicking' behavior in digital libraries. Society is dumbing down."*
Now, their question is similar to what i am saying which is, what are we doing, are we reading and learning or are we simply referencing and leaving? granted, we do take a piece of the cake with us but unless i'm mistaken, in the yester years, it would be a matter of reading through an entire book, gain the knowledge, understanding and the context of the book before writing a thesis paper and then citing the reference. Today, i am more than certain it is a matter of understanding who wrote the paper / book, get online, read the synopsis, get a brief, get information fast and then write your paper with citations.
This is not true to 100% of people, it is an example.
Watchman.
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 3:51 PM, David Njuguna <dnjuguna@gmail.com> wrote:
Does information gotten from watching a 20hour series from a youtube educational playlist from say Stanford channel any less useful than that gotten from reading a book?
Man has and will always learn new things to survive. The medium through which the information is received has always changed and will always change. When books were invented man shifted from smoke signals to books. Books are great but at some point man had to let go of the smoke signals.
To heat up this discussion up a little, does watching House TV series make us dumb? (As opposed to reading a sci-fi novel). Does the fact that some of these TV shows' scripts are so intensely researched that they even have panels of writers make them better than good old books?
D
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 11:45 AM, Watchman <skunkingrahim@gmail.com> wrote:
@Jonas
"has shifted me from having to know things to be able to look for things. Being able to recite a poem or remember an exact quote does not make sense any longer as it is more important to know how to find this information than it is to know it"
Isn't that what i've just advocated against? Does this not mean that what we are doing encourages us to rely on a non-experiential lifestyle? When wanting to watch a new movie. What do you do first?
@Muoki Cryptic. But true.
@sospeter
Compelling argument however when does this stop becoming a reference and become a lifestyle or moreover a necessary human function? Should it become a human function, when does it stop becoming a reference and become an influence?
Watchman.
On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 9:53 AM, <sospeter@elimu.co.ke> wrote:
Dear Watchman,
The internet does all that you have mentioned. It is not necessarily bad that one no longer reads books. They still get the information, whether it is through reading or injecting it into the system.
At the moment, we still read, but not books. Some of us listen too.
Man works through information and the human race will survive through getting more information, which will make them come up with different ways of doing stuff. Remember we started with sticks and stones for tools to metal and now plastics and sand and soon graphene....see?
As for schools not having caught up, that will happen soon enough. I'm in the business of providing a paradigm shift towards IT in schools. If the government encourages this, we will get all schools online ama?
My Cents, Regards.
Tragic to some. ever heard about someone who had an accident and rather than help, people took out there phones and started recording it. It does make us feel like who we are not.
On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 12:26 AM, Jonas | Lamu Software < jonas@lamusoftware.com> wrote:
> Can only speak for myself but the Internet has shifted me from having > to know things to be able to look for things. Being able to recite a > poem or remember an exact quote does not make sense any longer as it > is more important to know how to find this information than it is to > know > it. A lot of schools have unfortunately not caught up yet. > > It is not necessarily a bad thing but people who are not able to make > the shift (learn how to find reliable information) will be left behind. > > I grew up without television so I still read a lot but only novels > not > tech books. > > Don't think the Internet is that much about craving tech, more about > information being freely available. > > > > On 12/03/2010 11:45 PM, Watchman wrote: > >> Every time a new tech launches, Man craves it. Granted it takes a while >> to implement for example the automobile transition from Horse and >> Carriage. But once it picks up.. e.g. the iOS devices, Man goes >> GAGA! >> >> What's the internet doing to us? >> >> Open discussion here. >> >> Is it making us a smarter community? more knowledgeable? more >> intelligent or just more flick information dependent? >> >> The general and most widely used internet terminology i know of >> today >> is.. Google it! >> >> heck, i use it too. But question is, how many of us actually read a >> book >> in this glorious day of the information highway? >> >> And yes, i do know it's a friday night. >> >> Watchman. >> > _______________________________________________ > Skunkworks mailing list > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke > _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. For the dark things cannot stand the light.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. For the dark things cannot stand the light.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
@Stephen, Ndungi. My thoughts were outlined to the same. @Josiah. I'd rather watch them then read them ;) Have been doing a lot of paperback reading lately and when i dawned on the internet once more for referencing, i realised there was something wrong with the way i was doing things over the past 8 years or so.. ( By wrong, i mean personal paradigm not anyone else's ) and it sparked the thought of asking out loud. I read only non fiction, savethe Christopher paolini books and LOTR for fiction. Anything else just seemed to catch me asleep. bookWatcher On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 7:55 PM, Josiah Mugambi <jmugambi@gmail.com> wrote:
Speaking for myself:
I read books (yes hardcover, paper backs) a lot - roughly 2-3 a month, as well as magazines, and still an avid reader of stuff online as well.
Something else to throw out there: Movie vs Book - I'd read The Bourne Trilogy over watching than watching the movies...
-- Josiah Mugambi
2010/12/5 Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com>
@Watchie,
I do not think there is a problem if the student or anyone who wishes to project his opinion on any subject, goes online and gets intimate with the relevant published material, digests it and then presents what he was able to extract from it. However, there is a huge problem if a discussion is carried out with en.wikipedia.org, bit.ly and fb.me links. It usually leads me to ask "ok so you referenced a great article/research paper by one Prof Watchman Nee, but what are your own thoughts on the matter?" or "have you explored the matter by yourself, with your mind free of the writers' encumbrances and biases?". Thats the kind of intimacy I am referring to .. ;-)
With the huge resource that the internets has become, it is now virtually impossible to catch your student plagiarising his/her term paper - esp here in Kenya where lecturers are technophobic. (Ironically, this technophobia applies to a good number of Comp. Sc lecturers as well, but thats fodder for another flame.) So in this I agree with you that more and more people are getting degrees via copy-paste, but those who are hungry for real knowledge and are genuinely passionate about what they are pursuing are finding the interwebs to be a God-sent. Shall we forgo these shujaas to curb a few cheats ?
On 05/12/2010, Watchman <skunkingrahim@gmail.com> wrote:
@David.
Agree with you,however i'm more keen on understanding whether we are actually acquiring more information and growing, or are we retaining only bits of information instead of learning. Yes. The internet has truly transformed what we know as information retrieval. We have everything at our disposal, yet statistically, we are not as intelligent as we should be.
According to the 2008 report information Behavior of the researcher of the Future, commissioned by the British library and the joint Information Systems Committee: *" Deep log studies show that, from undergraduates to professors, people exhibit a strong tendency toward shallow, horizontal, 'flicking' behavior in digital libraries. Society is dumbing down."*
Now, their question is similar to what i am saying which is, what are we doing, are we reading and learning or are we simply referencing and leaving? granted, we do take a piece of the cake with us but unless i'm mistaken, in the yester years, it would be a matter of reading through an entire book, gain the knowledge, understanding and the context of the book before writing a thesis paper and then citing the reference. Today, i am more than certain it is a matter of understanding who wrote the paper / book, get online, read the synopsis, get a brief, get information fast and then write your paper with citations.
This is not true to 100% of people, it is an example.
Watchman.
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 3:51 PM, David Njuguna <dnjuguna@gmail.com> wrote:
Does information gotten from watching a 20hour series from a youtube educational playlist from say Stanford channel any less useful than that gotten from reading a book?
Man has and will always learn new things to survive. The medium through which the information is received has always changed and will always change. When books were invented man shifted from smoke signals to books. Books are great but at some point man had to let go of the smoke signals.
To heat up this discussion up a little, does watching House TV series make us dumb? (As opposed to reading a sci-fi novel). Does the fact that some of these TV shows' scripts are so intensely researched that they even have panels of writers make them better than good old books?
D
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 11:45 AM, Watchman <skunkingrahim@gmail.com> wrote:
@Jonas
"has shifted me from having to know things to be able to look for things. Being able to recite a poem or remember an exact quote does not make sense any longer as it is more important to know how to find this information than it is to know it"
Isn't that what i've just advocated against? Does this not mean that what we are doing encourages us to rely on a non-experiential lifestyle? When wanting to watch a new movie. What do you do first?
@Muoki Cryptic. But true.
@sospeter
Compelling argument however when does this stop becoming a reference and become a lifestyle or moreover a necessary human function? Should it become a human function, when does it stop becoming a reference and become an influence?
Watchman.
On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 9:53 AM, <sospeter@elimu.co.ke> wrote:
Dear Watchman,
The internet does all that you have mentioned. It is not necessarily bad that one no longer reads books. They still get the information, whether it is through reading or injecting it into the system.
At the moment, we still read, but not books. Some of us listen too.
Man works through information and the human race will survive through getting more information, which will make them come up with different ways of doing stuff. Remember we started with sticks and stones for tools to metal and now plastics and sand and soon graphene....see?
As for schools not having caught up, that will happen soon enough. I'm in the business of providing a paradigm shift towards IT in schools. If the government encourages this, we will get all schools online ama?
My Cents, Regards.
> Tragic to some. ever heard about someone who had an accident and > rather > than > help, people took out there phones and started recording it. It does make > us > feel like who we are not. > > On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 12:26 AM, Jonas | Lamu Software < > jonas@lamusoftware.com> wrote: > >> Can only speak for myself but the Internet has shifted me from having >> to know things to be able to look for things. Being able to recite a >> poem or remember an exact quote does not make sense any longer as it >> is more important to know how to find this information than it is to >> know >> it. A lot of schools have unfortunately not caught up yet. >> >> It is not necessarily a bad thing but people who are not able to make >> the shift (learn how to find reliable information) will be left behind. >> >> I grew up without television so I still read a lot but only novels >> not >> tech books. >> >> Don't think the Internet is that much about craving tech, more about >> information being freely available. >> >> >> >> On 12/03/2010 11:45 PM, Watchman wrote: >> >>> Every time a new tech launches, Man craves it. Granted it takes a while >>> to implement for example the automobile transition from Horse and >>> Carriage. But once it picks up.. e.g. the iOS devices, Man goes >>> GAGA! >>> >>> What's the internet doing to us? >>> >>> Open discussion here. >>> >>> Is it making us a smarter community? more knowledgeable? more >>> intelligent or just more flick information dependent? >>> >>> The general and most widely used internet terminology i know of >>> today >>> is.. Google it! >>> >>> heck, i use it too. But question is, how many of us actually read a >>> book >>> in this glorious day of the information highway? >>> >>> And yes, i do know it's a friday night. >>> >>> Watchman. >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Skunkworks mailing list >> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >> ------------ >> Skunkworks Rules >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >> ------------ >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >> > _______________________________________________ > Skunkworks mailing list > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. For the dark things cannot stand the light.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. For the dark things cannot stand the light.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. For the dark things cannot stand the light.
@watchman - actually read them first then watched. The movies actually are some of my best. Now LOTR - awesome stuff - the books and the movies too. Best usually to read then watch. Now internet - I find that my attention span seems lesser than it worse. As for my memory... there are things i used to have no problem remembering. Then came Google, evernote etc. -- Josiah Mugambi 2010/12/5 Watchman <skunkingrahim@gmail.com>
@Stephen, Ndungi. My thoughts were outlined to the same.
@Josiah. I'd rather watch them then read them ;)
Have been doing a lot of paperback reading lately and when i dawned on the internet once more for referencing, i realised there was something wrong with the way i was doing things over the past 8 years or so.. ( By wrong, i mean personal paradigm not anyone else's ) and it sparked the thought of asking out loud.
I read only non fiction, savethe Christopher paolini books and LOTR for fiction. Anything else just seemed to catch me asleep.
bookWatcher
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 7:55 PM, Josiah Mugambi <jmugambi@gmail.com> wrote:
Speaking for myself:
I read books (yes hardcover, paper backs) a lot - roughly 2-3 a month, as well as magazines, and still an avid reader of stuff online as well.
Something else to throw out there: Movie vs Book - I'd read The Bourne Trilogy over watching than watching the movies...
-- Josiah Mugambi
2010/12/5 Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com>
@Watchie,
I do not think there is a problem if the student or anyone who wishes to project his opinion on any subject, goes online and gets intimate with the relevant published material, digests it and then presents what he was able to extract from it. However, there is a huge problem if a discussion is carried out with en.wikipedia.org, bit.ly and fb.me links. It usually leads me to ask "ok so you referenced a great article/research paper by one Prof Watchman Nee, but what are your own thoughts on the matter?" or "have you explored the matter by yourself, with your mind free of the writers' encumbrances and biases?". Thats the kind of intimacy I am referring to .. ;-)
With the huge resource that the internets has become, it is now virtually impossible to catch your student plagiarising his/her term paper - esp here in Kenya where lecturers are technophobic. (Ironically, this technophobia applies to a good number of Comp. Sc lecturers as well, but thats fodder for another flame.) So in this I agree with you that more and more people are getting degrees via copy-paste, but those who are hungry for real knowledge and are genuinely passionate about what they are pursuing are finding the interwebs to be a God-sent. Shall we forgo these shujaas to curb a few cheats ?
On 05/12/2010, Watchman <skunkingrahim@gmail.com> wrote:
@David.
Agree with you,however i'm more keen on understanding whether we are actually acquiring more information and growing, or are we retaining only bits of information instead of learning. Yes. The internet has truly transformed what we know as information retrieval. We have everything at our disposal, yet statistically, we are not as intelligent as we should be.
According to the 2008 report information Behavior of the researcher of the Future, commissioned by the British library and the joint Information Systems Committee: *" Deep log studies show that, from undergraduates to professors, people exhibit a strong tendency toward shallow, horizontal, 'flicking' behavior in digital libraries. Society is dumbing down."*
Now, their question is similar to what i am saying which is, what are we doing, are we reading and learning or are we simply referencing and leaving? granted, we do take a piece of the cake with us but unless i'm mistaken, in the yester years, it would be a matter of reading through an entire book, gain the knowledge, understanding and the context of the book before writing a thesis paper and then citing the reference. Today, i am more than certain it is a matter of understanding who wrote the paper / book, get online, read the synopsis, get a brief, get information fast and then write your paper with citations.
This is not true to 100% of people, it is an example.
Watchman.
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 3:51 PM, David Njuguna <dnjuguna@gmail.com> wrote:
Does information gotten from watching a 20hour series from a youtube educational playlist from say Stanford channel any less useful than that gotten from reading a book?
Man has and will always learn new things to survive. The medium through which the information is received has always changed and will always change. When books were invented man shifted from smoke signals to books. Books are great but at some point man had to let go of the smoke signals.
To heat up this discussion up a little, does watching House TV series make us dumb? (As opposed to reading a sci-fi novel). Does the fact that some of these TV shows' scripts are so intensely researched that they even have panels of writers make them better than good old books?
D
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 11:45 AM, Watchman <skunkingrahim@gmail.com> wrote:
@Jonas
"has shifted me from having to know things to be able to look for things. Being able to recite a poem or remember an exact quote does not make sense any longer as it is more important to know how to find this information than it is to know it"
Isn't that what i've just advocated against? Does this not mean that what we are doing encourages us to rely on a non-experiential lifestyle? When wanting to watch a new movie. What do you do first?
@Muoki Cryptic. But true.
@sospeter
Compelling argument however when does this stop becoming a reference and become a lifestyle or moreover a necessary human function? Should it become a human function, when does it stop becoming a reference and become an influence?
Watchman.
On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 9:53 AM, <sospeter@elimu.co.ke> wrote:
> Dear Watchman, > > The internet does all that you have mentioned. It is not necessarily bad > that one no longer reads books. They still get the information, whether > it > is through reading or injecting it into the system. > > At the moment, we still read, but not books. Some of us listen too. > > Man works through information and the human race will survive through > getting more information, which will make them come up with different > ways > of doing stuff. Remember we started with sticks and stones for tools to > metal and now plastics and sand and soon graphene....see? > > As for schools not having caught up, that will happen soon enough. I'm > in > the business of providing a paradigm shift towards IT in schools. If the > government encourages this, we will get all schools online ama? > > My Cents, > Regards. > > > Tragic to some. ever heard about someone who had an accident and > > rather > > than > > help, people took out there phones and started recording it. It does > make > > us > > feel like who we are not. > > > > On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 12:26 AM, Jonas | Lamu Software < > > jonas@lamusoftware.com> wrote: > > > >> Can only speak for myself but the Internet has shifted me from having > >> to know things to be able to look for things. Being able to recite a > >> poem or remember an exact quote does not make sense any longer as it > >> is more important to know how to find this information than it is to > >> know > >> it. A lot of schools have unfortunately not caught up yet. > >> > >> It is not necessarily a bad thing but people who are not able to make > >> the shift (learn how to find reliable information) will be left > behind. > >> > >> I grew up without television so I still read a lot but only novels > >> not > >> tech books. > >> > >> Don't think the Internet is that much about craving tech, more about > >> information being freely available. > >> > >> > >> > >> On 12/03/2010 11:45 PM, Watchman wrote: > >> > >>> Every time a new tech launches, Man craves it. Granted it takes a > while > >>> to implement for example the automobile transition from Horse and > >>> Carriage. But once it picks up.. e.g. the iOS devices, Man goes > >>> GAGA! > >>> > >>> What's the internet doing to us? > >>> > >>> Open discussion here. > >>> > >>> Is it making us a smarter community? more knowledgeable? more > >>> intelligent or just more flick information dependent? > >>> > >>> The general and most widely used internet terminology i know of > >>> today > >>> is.. Google it! > >>> > >>> heck, i use it too. But question is, how many of us actually read a > >>> book > >>> in this glorious day of the information highway? > >>> > >>> And yes, i do know it's a friday night. > >>> > >>> Watchman. > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Skunkworks mailing list > >> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > >> ------------ > >> Skunkworks Rules > >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > >> ------------ > >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Skunkworks mailing list > > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > > ------------ > > Skunkworks Rules > > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > > ------------ > > Other services @ http://my.co.ke > > > _______________________________________________ > Skunkworks mailing list > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
-- ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. For the dark things cannot stand the light.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. For the dark things cannot stand the light.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. For the dark things cannot stand the light.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
Me thinks we have an awesome organ in the Brain, Processing power is super, Hyper threading at a crazy level, me thinks problem is indexing, which is where the Internet has come in handy.... :-) On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 8:49 PM, Josiah Mugambi <jmugambi@gmail.com> wrote:
@watchman - actually read them first then watched. The movies actually are some of my best. Now LOTR - awesome stuff - the books and the movies too. Best usually to read then watch.
Now internet - I find that my attention span seems lesser than it worse. As for my memory... there are things i used to have no problem remembering. Then came Google, evernote etc. -- Josiah Mugambi
2010/12/5 Watchman <skunkingrahim@gmail.com>
@Stephen, Ndungi. My thoughts were outlined to the same.
@Josiah. I'd rather watch them then read them ;)
Have been doing a lot of paperback reading lately and when i dawned on the internet once more for referencing, i realised there was something wrong with the way i was doing things over the past 8 years or so.. ( By wrong, i mean personal paradigm not anyone else's ) and it sparked the thought of asking out loud.
I read only non fiction, savethe Christopher paolini books and LOTR for fiction. Anything else just seemed to catch me asleep.
bookWatcher
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 7:55 PM, Josiah Mugambi <jmugambi@gmail.com>wrote:
Speaking for myself:
I read books (yes hardcover, paper backs) a lot - roughly 2-3 a month, as well as magazines, and still an avid reader of stuff online as well.
Something else to throw out there: Movie vs Book - I'd read The Bourne Trilogy over watching than watching the movies...
-- Josiah Mugambi
2010/12/5 Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com>
@Watchie,
I do not think there is a problem if the student or anyone who wishes to project his opinion on any subject, goes online and gets intimate with the relevant published material, digests it and then presents what he was able to extract from it. However, there is a huge problem if a discussion is carried out with en.wikipedia.org, bit.ly and fb.me links. It usually leads me to ask "ok so you referenced a great article/research paper by one Prof Watchman Nee, but what are your own thoughts on the matter?" or "have you explored the matter by yourself, with your mind free of the writers' encumbrances and biases?". Thats the kind of intimacy I am referring to .. ;-)
With the huge resource that the internets has become, it is now virtually impossible to catch your student plagiarising his/her term paper - esp here in Kenya where lecturers are technophobic. (Ironically, this technophobia applies to a good number of Comp. Sc lecturers as well, but thats fodder for another flame.) So in this I agree with you that more and more people are getting degrees via copy-paste, but those who are hungry for real knowledge and are genuinely passionate about what they are pursuing are finding the interwebs to be a God-sent. Shall we forgo these shujaas to curb a few cheats ?
On 05/12/2010, Watchman <skunkingrahim@gmail.com> wrote:
@David.
Agree with you,however i'm more keen on understanding whether we are actually acquiring more information and growing, or are we retaining only bits of information instead of learning. Yes. The internet has truly transformed what we know as information retrieval. We have everything at our disposal, yet statistically, we are not as intelligent as we should be.
According to the 2008 report information Behavior of the researcher of the Future, commissioned by the British library and the joint Information Systems Committee: *" Deep log studies show that, from undergraduates to professors, people exhibit a strong tendency toward shallow, horizontal, 'flicking' behavior in digital libraries. Society is dumbing down."*
Now, their question is similar to what i am saying which is, what are we doing, are we reading and learning or are we simply referencing and leaving? granted, we do take a piece of the cake with us but unless i'm mistaken, in the yester years, it would be a matter of reading through an entire book, gain the knowledge, understanding and the context of the book before writing a thesis paper and then citing the reference. Today, i am more than certain it is a matter of understanding who wrote the paper / book, get online, read the synopsis, get a brief, get information fast and then write your paper with citations.
This is not true to 100% of people, it is an example.
Watchman.
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 3:51 PM, David Njuguna <dnjuguna@gmail.com> wrote:
Does information gotten from watching a 20hour series from a youtube educational playlist from say Stanford channel any less useful than that gotten from reading a book?
Man has and will always learn new things to survive. The medium through which the information is received has always changed and will always change. When books were invented man shifted from smoke signals to books. Books are great but at some point man had to let go of the smoke signals.
To heat up this discussion up a little, does watching House TV series make us dumb? (As opposed to reading a sci-fi novel). Does the fact that some of these TV shows' scripts are so intensely researched that they even have panels of writers make them better than good old books?
D
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 11:45 AM, Watchman <skunkingrahim@gmail.com> wrote:
> @Jonas > > "has shifted me from having > to know things to be able to look for things. Being able to recite a > poem or remember an exact quote does not make sense any longer as it > is more important to know how to find this information than it is to know > it" > > Isn't that what i've just advocated against? Does this not mean that what > we are doing encourages us to rely on a non-experiential lifestyle? When > wanting to watch a new movie. What do you do first? > > @Muoki > Cryptic. But true. > > @sospeter > > Compelling argument however when does this stop becoming a reference and > become a lifestyle or moreover a necessary human function? Should it > become > a human function, when does it stop becoming a reference and become an > influence? > > Watchman. > > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 9:53 AM, <sospeter@elimu.co.ke> wrote: > >> Dear Watchman, >> >> The internet does all that you have mentioned. It is not necessarily bad >> that one no longer reads books. They still get the information, whether >> it >> is through reading or injecting it into the system. >> >> At the moment, we still read, but not books. Some of us listen too. >> >> Man works through information and the human race will survive through >> getting more information, which will make them come up with different >> ways >> of doing stuff. Remember we started with sticks and stones for tools to >> metal and now plastics and sand and soon graphene....see? >> >> As for schools not having caught up, that will happen soon enough. I'm >> in >> the business of providing a paradigm shift towards IT in schools. If the >> government encourages this, we will get all schools online ama? >> >> My Cents, >> Regards. >> >> > Tragic to some. ever heard about someone who had an accident and >> > rather >> > than >> > help, people took out there phones and started recording it. It does >> make >> > us >> > feel like who we are not. >> > >> > On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 12:26 AM, Jonas | Lamu Software < >> > jonas@lamusoftware.com> wrote: >> > >> >> Can only speak for myself but the Internet has shifted me from having >> >> to know things to be able to look for things. Being able to recite a >> >> poem or remember an exact quote does not make sense any longer as it >> >> is more important to know how to find this information than it is to >> >> know >> >> it. A lot of schools have unfortunately not caught up yet. >> >> >> >> It is not necessarily a bad thing but people who are not able to make >> >> the shift (learn how to find reliable information) will be left >> behind. >> >> >> >> I grew up without television so I still read a lot but only novels >> >> not >> >> tech books. >> >> >> >> Don't think the Internet is that much about craving tech, more about >> >> information being freely available. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 12/03/2010 11:45 PM, Watchman wrote: >> >> >> >>> Every time a new tech launches, Man craves it. Granted it takes a >> while >> >>> to implement for example the automobile transition from Horse and >> >>> Carriage. But once it picks up.. e.g. the iOS devices, Man goes >> >>> GAGA! >> >>> >> >>> What's the internet doing to us? >> >>> >> >>> Open discussion here. >> >>> >> >>> Is it making us a smarter community? more knowledgeable? more >> >>> intelligent or just more flick information dependent? >> >>> >> >>> The general and most widely used internet terminology i know of >> >>> today >> >>> is.. Google it! >> >>> >> >>> heck, i use it too. But question is, how many of us actually read a >> >>> book >> >>> in this glorious day of the information highway? >> >>> >> >>> And yes, i do know it's a friday night. >> >>> >> >>> Watchman. >> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Skunkworks mailing list >> >> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >> >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >> >> ------------ >> >> Skunkworks Rules >> >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >> >> ------------ >> >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Skunkworks mailing list >> > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >> > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >> > ------------ >> > Skunkworks Rules >> > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >> > ------------ >> > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Skunkworks mailing list >> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >> ------------ >> Skunkworks Rules >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >> ------------ >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >> > > > > -- > ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. > For the dark things cannot stand the light. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Skunkworks mailing list > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. For the dark things cannot stand the light.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. For the dark things cannot stand the light.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards, Collins Areba. *Strategic Operations. * *Center for Renewable Alternatives* Old Ferry Road, off Msa Malindi Rd, | Kilifi, Kenya. +254 720 516758 /734 696821 | skype/gtalk/twitter: arebacollins **
True, I don't read books anymore... prefer to code but code isn't poetry :) But yes, I agree that Internet is becoming more and more boring and stupid... The (revolutionary) Internet boom of the 90s is gone (an interesting period, with good content and plenty of flashy smily faces and colored font on black background)... The social/2.0 period is OK, can't complain. A recent study showed people love Facebook because it is a bit like watching TV with one eye, you just browse without hurting your brain. What is dumbing us : 1/ Is the amount of stupid/boring things posted on Internet, unecessary videos like airport CCTV... Recently a blogger wrote a nice article on why Google is publishing everything, even boring CCTV footage of US airport 2/ And the fact that most search engines fail to provide good and pertinent content - e.g. don't want to get all the US propaganda about Obama born in Kenya or Obama & Odinga burning churches in Kenya when doing a search for "Obama Kenya".... Search engines still can't do the difference between negative/positive review, pertinent/propraganda content, etc... A very good article on NY Times last week about a company in US doing "negative review" marketing strategy and it works and Google said they can nothing about it - Please don't share the link because this would be very easily applicable in Kenya (yes, death threat is part of marketing strategy that US company) - http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/28/business/28borker.html?_r=2&pagewanted=1 Me think it is important to learn to children to filter information and not just stupidly copying/paste Wikipedia !! Educate the children... Then, let Internet live... Don't want censorship !! On 5 December 2010 21:09, Brainiac <arebacollins@gmail.com> wrote:
Me thinks we have an awesome organ in the Brain, Processing power is super, Hyper threading at a crazy level, me thinks problem is indexing, which is where the Internet has come in handy.... :-)
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 8:49 PM, Josiah Mugambi <jmugambi@gmail.com> wrote:
@watchman - actually read them first then watched. The movies actually are some of my best. Now LOTR - awesome stuff - the books and the movies too. Best usually to read then watch.
Now internet - I find that my attention span seems lesser than it worse. As for my memory... there are things i used to have no problem remembering. Then came Google, evernote etc. -- Josiah Mugambi
2010/12/5 Watchman <skunkingrahim@gmail.com>
@Stephen, Ndungi. My thoughts were outlined to the same.
@Josiah. I'd rather watch them then read them ;)
Have been doing a lot of paperback reading lately and when i dawned on the internet once more for referencing, i realised there was something wrong with the way i was doing things over the past 8 years or so.. ( By wrong, i mean personal paradigm not anyone else's ) and it sparked the thought of asking out loud.
I read only non fiction, savethe Christopher paolini books and LOTR for fiction. Anything else just seemed to catch me asleep.
bookWatcher
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 7:55 PM, Josiah Mugambi <jmugambi@gmail.com>wrote:
Speaking for myself:
I read books (yes hardcover, paper backs) a lot - roughly 2-3 a month, as well as magazines, and still an avid reader of stuff online as well.
Something else to throw out there: Movie vs Book - I'd read The Bourne Trilogy over watching than watching the movies...
-- Josiah Mugambi
2010/12/5 Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com>
@Watchie,
I do not think there is a problem if the student or anyone who wishes to project his opinion on any subject, goes online and gets intimate with the relevant published material, digests it and then presents what he was able to extract from it. However, there is a huge problem if a discussion is carried out with en.wikipedia.org, bit.ly and fb.me links. It usually leads me to ask "ok so you referenced a great article/research paper by one Prof Watchman Nee, but what are your own thoughts on the matter?" or "have you explored the matter by yourself, with your mind free of the writers' encumbrances and biases?". Thats the kind of intimacy I am referring to .. ;-)
With the huge resource that the internets has become, it is now virtually impossible to catch your student plagiarising his/her term paper - esp here in Kenya where lecturers are technophobic. (Ironically, this technophobia applies to a good number of Comp. Sc lecturers as well, but thats fodder for another flame.) So in this I agree with you that more and more people are getting degrees via copy-paste, but those who are hungry for real knowledge and are genuinely passionate about what they are pursuing are finding the interwebs to be a God-sent. Shall we forgo these shujaas to curb a few cheats ?
On 05/12/2010, Watchman <skunkingrahim@gmail.com> wrote:
@David.
Agree with you,however i'm more keen on understanding whether we are actually acquiring more information and growing, or are we retaining only bits of information instead of learning. Yes. The internet has truly transformed what we know as information retrieval. We have everything at our disposal, yet statistically, we are not as intelligent as we should be.
According to the 2008 report information Behavior of the researcher of the Future, commissioned by the British library and the joint Information Systems Committee: *" Deep log studies show that, from undergraduates to professors, people exhibit a strong tendency toward shallow, horizontal, 'flicking' behavior in digital libraries. Society is dumbing down."*
Now, their question is similar to what i am saying which is, what are we doing, are we reading and learning or are we simply referencing and leaving? granted, we do take a piece of the cake with us but unless i'm mistaken, in the yester years, it would be a matter of reading through an entire book, gain the knowledge, understanding and the context of the book before writing a thesis paper and then citing the reference. Today, i am more than certain it is a matter of understanding who wrote the paper / book, get online, read the synopsis, get a brief, get information fast and then write your paper with citations.
This is not true to 100% of people, it is an example.
Watchman.
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 3:51 PM, David Njuguna <dnjuguna@gmail.com> wrote:
> Does information gotten from watching a 20hour series from a youtube > educational playlist from say Stanford channel any less useful than that > gotten from reading a book? > > Man has and will always learn new things to survive. The medium through > which the information is received has always changed and will always > change. > When books were invented man shifted from smoke signals to books. Books > are > great but at some point man had to let go of the smoke signals. > > To heat up this discussion up a little, does watching House TV series make > us dumb? (As opposed to reading a sci-fi novel). Does the fact that some > of > these TV shows' scripts are so intensely researched that they even have > panels of writers make them better than good old books? > > D > > > On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 11:45 AM, Watchman <skunkingrahim@gmail.com> wrote: > >> @Jonas >> >> "has shifted me from having >> to know things to be able to look for things. Being able to recite a >> poem or remember an exact quote does not make sense any longer as it >> is more important to know how to find this information than it is to know >> it" >> >> Isn't that what i've just advocated against? Does this not mean that what >> we are doing encourages us to rely on a non-experiential lifestyle? When >> wanting to watch a new movie. What do you do first? >> >> @Muoki >> Cryptic. But true. >> >> @sospeter >> >> Compelling argument however when does this stop becoming a reference and >> become a lifestyle or moreover a necessary human function? Should it >> become >> a human function, when does it stop becoming a reference and become an >> influence? >> >> Watchman. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 9:53 AM, <sospeter@elimu.co.ke> wrote: >> >>> Dear Watchman, >>> >>> The internet does all that you have mentioned. It is not necessarily bad >>> that one no longer reads books. They still get the information, whether >>> it >>> is through reading or injecting it into the system. >>> >>> At the moment, we still read, but not books. Some of us listen too. >>> >>> Man works through information and the human race will survive through >>> getting more information, which will make them come up with different >>> ways >>> of doing stuff. Remember we started with sticks and stones for tools to >>> metal and now plastics and sand and soon graphene....see? >>> >>> As for schools not having caught up, that will happen soon enough. I'm >>> in >>> the business of providing a paradigm shift towards IT in schools. If the >>> government encourages this, we will get all schools online ama? >>> >>> My Cents, >>> Regards. >>> >>> > Tragic to some. ever heard about someone who had an accident and >>> > rather >>> > than >>> > help, people took out there phones and started recording it. It does >>> make >>> > us >>> > feel like who we are not. >>> > >>> > On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 12:26 AM, Jonas | Lamu Software < >>> > jonas@lamusoftware.com> wrote: >>> > >>> >> Can only speak for myself but the Internet has shifted me from having >>> >> to know things to be able to look for things. Being able to recite a >>> >> poem or remember an exact quote does not make sense any longer as it >>> >> is more important to know how to find this information than it is to >>> >> know >>> >> it. A lot of schools have unfortunately not caught up yet. >>> >> >>> >> It is not necessarily a bad thing but people who are not able to make >>> >> the shift (learn how to find reliable information) will be left >>> behind. >>> >> >>> >> I grew up without television so I still read a lot but only novels >>> >> not >>> >> tech books. >>> >> >>> >> Don't think the Internet is that much about craving tech, more about >>> >> information being freely available. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> On 12/03/2010 11:45 PM, Watchman wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> Every time a new tech launches, Man craves it. Granted it takes a >>> while >>> >>> to implement for example the automobile transition from Horse and >>> >>> Carriage. But once it picks up.. e.g. the iOS devices, Man goes >>> >>> GAGA! >>> >>> >>> >>> What's the internet doing to us? >>> >>> >>> >>> Open discussion here. >>> >>> >>> >>> Is it making us a smarter community? more knowledgeable? more >>> >>> intelligent or just more flick information dependent? >>> >>> >>> >>> The general and most widely used internet terminology i know of >>> >>> today >>> >>> is.. Google it! >>> >>> >>> >>> heck, i use it too. But question is, how many of us actually read a >>> >>> book >>> >>> in this glorious day of the information highway? >>> >>> >>> >>> And yes, i do know it's a friday night. >>> >>> >>> >>> Watchman. >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> Skunkworks mailing list >>> >> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>> >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>> >> ------------ >>> >> Skunkworks Rules >>> >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>> >> ------------ >>> >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>> >> >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Skunkworks mailing list >>> > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>> > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>> > ------------ >>> > Skunkworks Rules >>> > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>> > ------------ >>> > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Skunkworks mailing list >>> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>> ------------ >>> Skunkworks Rules >>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>> ------------ >>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. >> For the dark things cannot stand the light. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Skunkworks mailing list >> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >> ------------ >> Skunkworks Rules >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >> ------------ >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Skunkworks mailing list > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
-- ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. For the dark things cannot stand the light.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. For the dark things cannot stand the light.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards,
Collins Areba.
*Strategic Operations. * *Center for Renewable Alternatives* Old Ferry Road, off Msa Malindi Rd, | Kilifi, Kenya. +254 720 516758 /734 696821 | skype/gtalk/twitter: arebacollins **
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
TheBigBoss, If I get you right, your emphasis is on the fact that people no longer know how to search for relevant content; or that they too easily get distracted (like in the example you gave of searching for "Obama Kenya"). That then implies that we shouldnt blame the tools in the absence of a skilled craftsman ? Maybe academia should be more aggressive in enlightening students on getting the most from the internets. In college, we had a course titled "Searching and Retrieval", it focused on how to get the most relevant info from any collated resource (library, internets etc). Its a simple course, and seems very obvious but I believe more and more schools and faculties in our colleges would greatly benefit from it. After all, as the ladies say, it is these simple things that really bring maendeleo :-) On 6 December 2010 03:04, TheBigBoss <thebigboss@peperuka.com> wrote:
True, I don't read books anymore... prefer to code but code isn't poetry :)
But yes, I agree that Internet is becoming more and more boring and stupid... The (revolutionary) Internet boom of the 90s is gone (an interesting period, with good content and plenty of flashy smily faces and colored font on black background)... The social/2.0 period is OK, can't complain. A recent study showed people love Facebook because it is a bit like watching TV with one eye, you just browse without hurting your brain.
What is dumbing us :
1/ Is the amount of stupid/boring things posted on Internet, unecessary videos like airport CCTV... Recently a blogger wrote a nice article on why Google is publishing everything, even boring CCTV footage of US airport
2/ And the fact that most search engines fail to provide good and pertinent content - e.g. don't want to get all the US propaganda about Obama born in Kenya or Obama & Odinga burning churches in Kenya when doing a search for "Obama Kenya".... Search engines still can't do the difference between negative/positive review, pertinent/propraganda content, etc... A very good article on NY Times last week about a company in US doing "negative review" marketing strategy and it works and Google said they can nothing about it - Please don't share the link because this would be very easily applicable in Kenya (yes, death threat is part of marketing strategy that US company) - http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/28/business/28borker.html?_r=2&pagewanted=1
Me think it is important to learn to children to filter information and not just stupidly copying/paste Wikipedia !! Educate the children... Then, let Internet live... Don't want censorship !!
On 5 December 2010 21:09, Brainiac <arebacollins@gmail.com> wrote:
Me thinks we have an awesome organ in the Brain, Processing power is super, Hyper threading at a crazy level, me thinks problem is indexing, which is where the Internet has come in handy.... :-)
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 8:49 PM, Josiah Mugambi <jmugambi@gmail.com>wrote:
@watchman - actually read them first then watched. The movies actually are some of my best. Now LOTR - awesome stuff - the books and the movies too. Best usually to read then watch.
Now internet - I find that my attention span seems lesser than it worse. As for my memory... there are things i used to have no problem remembering. Then came Google, evernote etc. -- Josiah Mugambi
2010/12/5 Watchman <skunkingrahim@gmail.com>
@Stephen, Ndungi. My thoughts were outlined to the same.
@Josiah. I'd rather watch them then read them ;)
Have been doing a lot of paperback reading lately and when i dawned on the internet once more for referencing, i realised there was something wrong with the way i was doing things over the past 8 years or so.. ( By wrong, i mean personal paradigm not anyone else's ) and it sparked the thought of asking out loud.
I read only non fiction, savethe Christopher paolini books and LOTR for fiction. Anything else just seemed to catch me asleep.
bookWatcher
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 7:55 PM, Josiah Mugambi <jmugambi@gmail.com>wrote:
Speaking for myself:
I read books (yes hardcover, paper backs) a lot - roughly 2-3 a month, as well as magazines, and still an avid reader of stuff online as well.
Something else to throw out there: Movie vs Book - I'd read The Bourne Trilogy over watching than watching the movies...
-- Josiah Mugambi
2010/12/5 Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com>
@Watchie,
I do not think there is a problem if the student or anyone who wishes to project his opinion on any subject, goes online and gets intimate with the relevant published material, digests it and then presents what he was able to extract from it. However, there is a huge problem if a discussion is carried out with en.wikipedia.org, bit.ly and fb.me links. It usually leads me to ask "ok so you referenced a great article/research paper by one Prof Watchman Nee, but what are your own thoughts on the matter?" or "have you explored the matter by yourself, with your mind free of the writers' encumbrances and biases?". Thats the kind of intimacy I am referring to .. ;-)
With the huge resource that the internets has become, it is now virtually impossible to catch your student plagiarising his/her term paper - esp here in Kenya where lecturers are technophobic. (Ironically, this technophobia applies to a good number of Comp. Sc lecturers as well, but thats fodder for another flame.) So in this I agree with you that more and more people are getting degrees via copy-paste, but those who are hungry for real knowledge and are genuinely passionate about what they are pursuing are finding the interwebs to be a God-sent. Shall we forgo these shujaas to curb a few cheats ?
On 05/12/2010, Watchman <skunkingrahim@gmail.com> wrote: > @David. > > Agree with you,however i'm more keen on understanding whether we are > actually acquiring more information and growing, or are we retaining only > bits of information instead of learning. Yes. The internet has truly > transformed what we know as information retrieval. We have everything at our > disposal, yet statistically, we are not as intelligent as we should be. > > According to the 2008 report information Behavior of the researcher of the > Future, commissioned by the British library and the joint Information > Systems Committee: *" Deep log studies show that, from undergraduates to > professors, people exhibit a strong tendency toward shallow, horizontal, > 'flicking' behavior in digital libraries. Society is dumbing down."* > > Now, their question is similar to what i am saying which is, what are we > doing, are we reading and learning or are we simply referencing and leaving? > granted, we do take a piece of the cake with us but unless i'm mistaken, in > the yester years, it would be a matter of reading through an entire book, > gain the knowledge, understanding and the context of the book before writing > a thesis paper and then citing the reference. Today, i am more than certain > it is a matter of understanding who wrote the paper / book, get online, read > the synopsis, get a brief, get information fast and then write your paper > with citations. > > This is not true to 100% of people, it is an example. > > > Watchman. > > > > On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 3:51 PM, David Njuguna <dnjuguna@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Does information gotten from watching a 20hour series from a youtube >> educational playlist from say Stanford channel any less useful than that >> gotten from reading a book? >> >> Man has and will always learn new things to survive. The medium through >> which the information is received has always changed and will always >> change. >> When books were invented man shifted from smoke signals to books. Books >> are >> great but at some point man had to let go of the smoke signals. >> >> To heat up this discussion up a little, does watching House TV series make >> us dumb? (As opposed to reading a sci-fi novel). Does the fact that some >> of >> these TV shows' scripts are so intensely researched that they even have >> panels of writers make them better than good old books? >> >> D >> >> >> On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 11:45 AM, Watchman <skunkingrahim@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> @Jonas >>> >>> "has shifted me from having >>> to know things to be able to look for things. Being able to recite a >>> poem or remember an exact quote does not make sense any longer as it >>> is more important to know how to find this information than it is to know >>> it" >>> >>> Isn't that what i've just advocated against? Does this not mean that what >>> we are doing encourages us to rely on a non-experiential lifestyle? When >>> wanting to watch a new movie. What do you do first? >>> >>> @Muoki >>> Cryptic. But true. >>> >>> @sospeter >>> >>> Compelling argument however when does this stop becoming a reference and >>> become a lifestyle or moreover a necessary human function? Should it >>> become >>> a human function, when does it stop becoming a reference and become an >>> influence? >>> >>> Watchman. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 9:53 AM, <sospeter@elimu.co.ke> wrote: >>> >>>> Dear Watchman, >>>> >>>> The internet does all that you have mentioned. It is not necessarily bad >>>> that one no longer reads books. They still get the information, whether >>>> it >>>> is through reading or injecting it into the system. >>>> >>>> At the moment, we still read, but not books. Some of us listen too. >>>> >>>> Man works through information and the human race will survive through >>>> getting more information, which will make them come up with different >>>> ways >>>> of doing stuff. Remember we started with sticks and stones for tools to >>>> metal and now plastics and sand and soon graphene....see? >>>> >>>> As for schools not having caught up, that will happen soon enough. I'm >>>> in >>>> the business of providing a paradigm shift towards IT in schools. If the >>>> government encourages this, we will get all schools online ama? >>>> >>>> My Cents, >>>> Regards. >>>> >>>> > Tragic to some. ever heard about someone who had an accident and >>>> > rather >>>> > than >>>> > help, people took out there phones and started recording it. It does >>>> make >>>> > us >>>> > feel like who we are not. >>>> > >>>> > On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 12:26 AM, Jonas | Lamu Software < >>>> > jonas@lamusoftware.com> wrote: >>>> > >>>> >> Can only speak for myself but the Internet has shifted me from having >>>> >> to know things to be able to look for things. Being able to recite a >>>> >> poem or remember an exact quote does not make sense any longer as it >>>> >> is more important to know how to find this information than it is to >>>> >> know >>>> >> it. A lot of schools have unfortunately not caught up yet. >>>> >> >>>> >> It is not necessarily a bad thing but people who are not able to make >>>> >> the shift (learn how to find reliable information) will be left >>>> behind. >>>> >> >>>> >> I grew up without television so I still read a lot but only novels >>>> >> not >>>> >> tech books. >>>> >> >>>> >> Don't think the Internet is that much about craving tech, more about >>>> >> information being freely available. >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> On 12/03/2010 11:45 PM, Watchman wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >>> Every time a new tech launches, Man craves it. Granted it takes a >>>> while >>>> >>> to implement for example the automobile transition from Horse and >>>> >>> Carriage. But once it picks up.. e.g. the iOS devices, Man goes >>>> >>> GAGA! >>>> >>> >>>> >>> What's the internet doing to us? >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Open discussion here. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Is it making us a smarter community? more knowledgeable? more >>>> >>> intelligent or just more flick information dependent? >>>> >>> >>>> >>> The general and most widely used internet terminology i know of >>>> >>> today >>>> >>> is.. Google it! >>>> >>> >>>> >>> heck, i use it too. But question is, how many of us actually read a >>>> >>> book >>>> >>> in this glorious day of the information highway? >>>> >>> >>>> >>> And yes, i do know it's a friday night. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Watchman. >>>> >>> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> Skunkworks mailing list >>>> >> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>> >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>> >> ------------ >>>> >> Skunkworks Rules >>>> >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>> >> ------------ >>>> >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>> >> >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > Skunkworks mailing list >>>> > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>> > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>> > ------------ >>>> > Skunkworks Rules >>>> > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>> > ------------ >>>> > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Skunkworks mailing list >>>> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>> ------------ >>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>> ------------ >>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. >>> For the dark things cannot stand the light. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Skunkworks mailing list >>> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>> ------------ >>> Skunkworks Rules >>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>> ------------ >>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Skunkworks mailing list >> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >> ------------ >> Skunkworks Rules >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >> ------------ >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >> > > > > -- > ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. > For the dark things cannot stand the light. > _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. For the dark things cannot stand the light.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards,
Collins Areba.
*Strategic Operations. * *Center for Renewable Alternatives* Old Ferry Road, off Msa Malindi Rd, | Kilifi, Kenya. +254 720 516758 /734 696821 | skype/gtalk/twitter: arebacollins **
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
@Ndungi - Tuko pamoja ! "we shouldnt blame the tools in the absence of a skilled craftsman" - perfect, I am very bad in expressions... one sentence sum up ! But we are allow to blame the tools filtering and ranking the content, that is search engines -> just do the "Obama Kenya" experiment and you will noticed 70% of content is propaganda, hoax and lies. If you read Google answer to NY Times article, the response is "don't stupidly click on link ranked in 1st position to do your purchase; do more intense searches in review/comparative websites first before purchasing goods online". To me, it's a big FAIL from Google and he should be blamed. You are right about reinforcing courses about usage of Internet. Internet searches and retrieval seems to be a very basic task but many people still can't search the net properly... Even my 20 years brother who went to high school can't do a search properly (only spending his day on FB and Youtube, usual crap). have a good day On 6 December 2010 11:35, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote:
TheBigBoss,
If I get you right, your emphasis is on the fact that people no longer know how to search for relevant content; or that they too easily get distracted (like in the example you gave of searching for "Obama Kenya"). That then implies that we shouldnt blame the tools in the absence of a skilled craftsman ? Maybe academia should be more aggressive in enlightening students on getting the most from the internets. In college, we had a course titled "Searching and Retrieval", it focused on how to get the most relevant info from any collated resource (library, internets etc). Its a simple course, and seems very obvious but I believe more and more schools and faculties in our colleges would greatly benefit from it. After all, as the ladies say, it is these simple things that really bring maendeleo :-)
On 6 December 2010 03:04, TheBigBoss <thebigboss@peperuka.com> wrote:
True, I don't read books anymore... prefer to code but code isn't poetry :)
But yes, I agree that Internet is becoming more and more boring and stupid... The (revolutionary) Internet boom of the 90s is gone (an interesting period, with good content and plenty of flashy smily faces and colored font on black background)... The social/2.0 period is OK, can't complain. A recent study showed people love Facebook because it is a bit like watching TV with one eye, you just browse without hurting your brain.
What is dumbing us :
1/ Is the amount of stupid/boring things posted on Internet, unecessary videos like airport CCTV... Recently a blogger wrote a nice article on why Google is publishing everything, even boring CCTV footage of US airport
2/ And the fact that most search engines fail to provide good and pertinent content - e.g. don't want to get all the US propaganda about Obama born in Kenya or Obama & Odinga burning churches in Kenya when doing a search for "Obama Kenya".... Search engines still can't do the difference between negative/positive review, pertinent/propraganda content, etc... A very good article on NY Times last week about a company in US doing "negative review" marketing strategy and it works and Google said they can nothing about it - Please don't share the link because this would be very easily applicable in Kenya (yes, death threat is part of marketing strategy that US company) - http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/28/business/28borker.html?_r=2&pagewanted=1
Me think it is important to learn to children to filter information and not just stupidly copying/paste Wikipedia !! Educate the children... Then, let Internet live... Don't want censorship !!
On 5 December 2010 21:09, Brainiac <arebacollins@gmail.com> wrote:
Me thinks we have an awesome organ in the Brain, Processing power is super, Hyper threading at a crazy level, me thinks problem is indexing, which is where the Internet has come in handy.... :-)
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 8:49 PM, Josiah Mugambi <jmugambi@gmail.com>wrote:
@watchman - actually read them first then watched. The movies actually are some of my best. Now LOTR - awesome stuff - the books and the movies too. Best usually to read then watch.
Now internet - I find that my attention span seems lesser than it worse. As for my memory... there are things i used to have no problem remembering. Then came Google, evernote etc. -- Josiah Mugambi
2010/12/5 Watchman <skunkingrahim@gmail.com>
@Stephen, Ndungi. My thoughts were outlined to the same.
@Josiah. I'd rather watch them then read them ;)
Have been doing a lot of paperback reading lately and when i dawned on the internet once more for referencing, i realised there was something wrong with the way i was doing things over the past 8 years or so.. ( By wrong, i mean personal paradigm not anyone else's ) and it sparked the thought of asking out loud.
I read only non fiction, savethe Christopher paolini books and LOTR for fiction. Anything else just seemed to catch me asleep.
bookWatcher
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 7:55 PM, Josiah Mugambi <jmugambi@gmail.com>wrote:
Speaking for myself:
I read books (yes hardcover, paper backs) a lot - roughly 2-3 a month, as well as magazines, and still an avid reader of stuff online as well.
Something else to throw out there: Movie vs Book - I'd read The Bourne Trilogy over watching than watching the movies...
-- Josiah Mugambi
2010/12/5 Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com>
@Watchie, > > I do not think there is a problem if the student or anyone who wishes > to project his opinion on any subject, goes online and gets intimate > with the relevant published material, digests it and then presents > what he was able to extract from it. However, there is a huge problem > if a discussion is carried out with en.wikipedia.org, bit.ly and > fb.me > links. It usually leads me to ask "ok so you referenced a great > article/research paper by one Prof Watchman Nee, but what are your > own > thoughts on the matter?" or "have you explored the matter by > yourself, > with your mind free of the writers' encumbrances and biases?". Thats > the kind of intimacy I am referring to .. ;-) > > With the huge resource that the internets has become, it is now > virtually impossible to catch your student plagiarising his/her term > paper - esp here in Kenya where lecturers are technophobic. > (Ironically, this technophobia applies to a good number of Comp. Sc > lecturers as well, but thats fodder for another flame.) So in this I > agree with you that more and more people are getting degrees via > copy-paste, but those who are hungry for real knowledge and are > genuinely passionate about what they are pursuing are finding the > interwebs to be a God-sent. Shall we forgo these shujaas to curb a > few > cheats ? > > On 05/12/2010, Watchman <skunkingrahim@gmail.com> wrote: > > @David. > > > > Agree with you,however i'm more keen on understanding whether we > are > > actually acquiring more information and growing, or are we > retaining only > > bits of information instead of learning. Yes. The internet has > truly > > transformed what we know as information retrieval. We have > everything at our > > disposal, yet statistically, we are not as intelligent as we should > be. > > > > According to the 2008 report information Behavior of the researcher > of the > > Future, commissioned by the British library and the joint > Information > > Systems Committee: *" Deep log studies show that, from > undergraduates to > > professors, people exhibit a strong tendency toward shallow, > horizontal, > > 'flicking' behavior in digital libraries. Society is dumbing > down."* > > > > Now, their question is similar to what i am saying which is, what > are we > > doing, are we reading and learning or are we simply referencing and > leaving? > > granted, we do take a piece of the cake with us but unless i'm > mistaken, in > > the yester years, it would be a matter of reading through an entire > book, > > gain the knowledge, understanding and the context of the book > before writing > > a thesis paper and then citing the reference. Today, i am more than > certain > > it is a matter of understanding who wrote the paper / book, get > online, read > > the synopsis, get a brief, get information fast and then write your > paper > > with citations. > > > > This is not true to 100% of people, it is an example. > > > > > > Watchman. > > > > > > > > On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 3:51 PM, David Njuguna <dnjuguna@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > >> Does information gotten from watching a 20hour series from a > youtube > >> educational playlist from say Stanford channel any less useful > than that > >> gotten from reading a book? > >> > >> Man has and will always learn new things to survive. The medium > through > >> which the information is received has always changed and will > always > >> change. > >> When books were invented man shifted from smoke signals to books. > Books > >> are > >> great but at some point man had to let go of the smoke signals. > >> > >> To heat up this discussion up a little, does watching House TV > series make > >> us dumb? (As opposed to reading a sci-fi novel). Does the fact > that some > >> of > >> these TV shows' scripts are so intensely researched that they even > have > >> panels of writers make them better than good old books? > >> > >> D > >> > >> > >> On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 11:45 AM, Watchman < > skunkingrahim@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >>> @Jonas > >>> > >>> "has shifted me from having > >>> to know things to be able to look for things. Being able to > recite a > >>> poem or remember an exact quote does not make sense any longer as > it > >>> is more important to know how to find this information than it is > to know > >>> it" > >>> > >>> Isn't that what i've just advocated against? Does this not mean > that what > >>> we are doing encourages us to rely on a non-experiential > lifestyle? When > >>> wanting to watch a new movie. What do you do first? > >>> > >>> @Muoki > >>> Cryptic. But true. > >>> > >>> @sospeter > >>> > >>> Compelling argument however when does this stop becoming a > reference and > >>> become a lifestyle or moreover a necessary human function? Should > it > >>> become > >>> a human function, when does it stop becoming a reference and > become an > >>> influence? > >>> > >>> Watchman. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 9:53 AM, <sospeter@elimu.co.ke> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Dear Watchman, > >>>> > >>>> The internet does all that you have mentioned. It is not > necessarily bad > >>>> that one no longer reads books. They still get the information, > whether > >>>> it > >>>> is through reading or injecting it into the system. > >>>> > >>>> At the moment, we still read, but not books. Some of us listen > too. > >>>> > >>>> Man works through information and the human race will survive > through > >>>> getting more information, which will make them come up with > different > >>>> ways > >>>> of doing stuff. Remember we started with sticks and stones for > tools to > >>>> metal and now plastics and sand and soon graphene....see? > >>>> > >>>> As for schools not having caught up, that will happen soon > enough. I'm > >>>> in > >>>> the business of providing a paradigm shift towards IT in > schools. If the > >>>> government encourages this, we will get all schools online ama? > >>>> > >>>> My Cents, > >>>> Regards. > >>>> > >>>> > Tragic to some. ever heard about someone who had an accident > and > >>>> > rather > >>>> > than > >>>> > help, people took out there phones and started recording it. > It does > >>>> make > >>>> > us > >>>> > feel like who we are not. > >>>> > > >>>> > On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 12:26 AM, Jonas | Lamu Software < > >>>> > jonas@lamusoftware.com> wrote: > >>>> > > >>>> >> Can only speak for myself but the Internet has shifted me > from having > >>>> >> to know things to be able to look for things. Being able to > recite a > >>>> >> poem or remember an exact quote does not make sense any > longer as it > >>>> >> is more important to know how to find this information than > it is to > >>>> >> know > >>>> >> it. A lot of schools have unfortunately not caught up yet. > >>>> >> > >>>> >> It is not necessarily a bad thing but people who are not able > to make > >>>> >> the shift (learn how to find reliable information) will be > left > >>>> behind. > >>>> >> > >>>> >> I grew up without television so I still read a lot but only > novels > >>>> >> not > >>>> >> tech books. > >>>> >> > >>>> >> Don't think the Internet is that much about craving tech, > more about > >>>> >> information being freely available. > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> On 12/03/2010 11:45 PM, Watchman wrote: > >>>> >> > >>>> >>> Every time a new tech launches, Man craves it. Granted it > takes a > >>>> while > >>>> >>> to implement for example the automobile transition from > Horse and > >>>> >>> Carriage. But once it picks up.. e.g. the iOS devices, Man > goes > >>>> >>> GAGA! > >>>> >>> > >>>> >>> What's the internet doing to us? > >>>> >>> > >>>> >>> Open discussion here. > >>>> >>> > >>>> >>> Is it making us a smarter community? more knowledgeable? > more > >>>> >>> intelligent or just more flick information dependent? > >>>> >>> > >>>> >>> The general and most widely used internet terminology i know > of > >>>> >>> today > >>>> >>> is.. Google it! > >>>> >>> > >>>> >>> heck, i use it too. But question is, how many of us actually > read a > >>>> >>> book > >>>> >>> in this glorious day of the information highway? > >>>> >>> > >>>> >>> And yes, i do know it's a friday night. > >>>> >>> > >>>> >>> Watchman. > >>>> >>> > >>>> >> _______________________________________________ > >>>> >> Skunkworks mailing list > >>>> >> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > >>>> >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > >>>> >> ------------ > >>>> >> Skunkworks Rules > >>>> >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > >>>> >> ------------ > >>>> >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke > >>>> >> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> > Skunkworks mailing list > >>>> > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > >>>> > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > >>>> > ------------ > >>>> > Skunkworks Rules > >>>> > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > >>>> > ------------ > >>>> > Other services @ http://my.co.ke > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Skunkworks mailing list > >>>> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > >>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > >>>> ------------ > >>>> Skunkworks Rules > >>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > >>>> ------------ > >>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. > >>> For the dark things cannot stand the light. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Skunkworks mailing list > >>> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > >>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > >>> ------------ > >>> Skunkworks Rules > >>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > >>> ------------ > >>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke > >>> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Skunkworks mailing list > >> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > >> ------------ > >> Skunkworks Rules > >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > >> ------------ > >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. > > For the dark things cannot stand the light. > > > _______________________________________________ > Skunkworks mailing list > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
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-- ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. For the dark things cannot stand the light.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
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-- Regards,
Collins Areba.
*Strategic Operations. * *Center for Renewable Alternatives* Old Ferry Road, off Msa Malindi Rd, | Kilifi, Kenya. +254 720 516758 /734 696821 | skype/gtalk/twitter: arebacollins **
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_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
I read e-books.....alot. I read like 200 pages(that is my target) of written material per day. But I download the books from the internet,and for me to get the book I google it. For me the Internet makes me smarter,because it gives me various views from different sources,which I would otherwise not get if I only depend on books. To aggregate all that information,for it to make sense or provide a solution requires a smart person. On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 8:15 PM, Watchman <skunkingrahim@gmail.com> wrote:
@Stephen, Ndungi. My thoughts were outlined to the same.
@Josiah. I'd rather watch them then read them ;)
Have been doing a lot of paperback reading lately and when i dawned on the internet once more for referencing, i realised there was something wrong with the way i was doing things over the past 8 years or so.. ( By wrong, i mean personal paradigm not anyone else's ) and it sparked the thought of asking out loud.
I read only non fiction, savethe Christopher paolini books and LOTR for fiction. Anything else just seemed to catch me asleep.
bookWatcher
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 7:55 PM, Josiah Mugambi <jmugambi@gmail.com> wrote:
Speaking for myself:
I read books (yes hardcover, paper backs) a lot - roughly 2-3 a month, as well as magazines, and still an avid reader of stuff online as well.
Something else to throw out there: Movie vs Book - I'd read The Bourne Trilogy over watching than watching the movies...
-- Josiah Mugambi
2010/12/5 Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com>
@Watchie,
I do not think there is a problem if the student or anyone who wishes to project his opinion on any subject, goes online and gets intimate with the relevant published material, digests it and then presents what he was able to extract from it. However, there is a huge problem if a discussion is carried out with en.wikipedia.org, bit.ly and fb.me links. It usually leads me to ask "ok so you referenced a great article/research paper by one Prof Watchman Nee, but what are your own thoughts on the matter?" or "have you explored the matter by yourself, with your mind free of the writers' encumbrances and biases?". Thats the kind of intimacy I am referring to .. ;-)
With the huge resource that the internets has become, it is now virtually impossible to catch your student plagiarising his/her term paper - esp here in Kenya where lecturers are technophobic. (Ironically, this technophobia applies to a good number of Comp. Sc lecturers as well, but thats fodder for another flame.) So in this I agree with you that more and more people are getting degrees via copy-paste, but those who are hungry for real knowledge and are genuinely passionate about what they are pursuing are finding the interwebs to be a God-sent. Shall we forgo these shujaas to curb a few cheats ?
On 05/12/2010, Watchman <skunkingrahim@gmail.com> wrote:
@David.
Agree with you,however i'm more keen on understanding whether we are actually acquiring more information and growing, or are we retaining only bits of information instead of learning. Yes. The internet has truly transformed what we know as information retrieval. We have everything at our disposal, yet statistically, we are not as intelligent as we should be.
According to the 2008 report information Behavior of the researcher of the Future, commissioned by the British library and the joint Information Systems Committee: *" Deep log studies show that, from undergraduates to professors, people exhibit a strong tendency toward shallow, horizontal, 'flicking' behavior in digital libraries. Society is dumbing down."*
Now, their question is similar to what i am saying which is, what are we doing, are we reading and learning or are we simply referencing and leaving? granted, we do take a piece of the cake with us but unless i'm mistaken, in the yester years, it would be a matter of reading through an entire book, gain the knowledge, understanding and the context of the book before writing a thesis paper and then citing the reference. Today, i am more than certain it is a matter of understanding who wrote the paper / book, get online, read the synopsis, get a brief, get information fast and then write your paper with citations.
This is not true to 100% of people, it is an example.
Watchman.
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 3:51 PM, David Njuguna <dnjuguna@gmail.com> wrote:
Does information gotten from watching a 20hour series from a youtube educational playlist from say Stanford channel any less useful than that gotten from reading a book?
Man has and will always learn new things to survive. The medium through which the information is received has always changed and will always change. When books were invented man shifted from smoke signals to books. Books are great but at some point man had to let go of the smoke signals.
To heat up this discussion up a little, does watching House TV series make us dumb? (As opposed to reading a sci-fi novel). Does the fact that some of these TV shows' scripts are so intensely researched that they even have panels of writers make them better than good old books?
D
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 11:45 AM, Watchman <skunkingrahim@gmail.com> wrote:
@Jonas
"has shifted me from having to know things to be able to look for things. Being able to recite a poem or remember an exact quote does not make sense any longer as it is more important to know how to find this information than it is to know it"
Isn't that what i've just advocated against? Does this not mean that what we are doing encourages us to rely on a non-experiential lifestyle? When wanting to watch a new movie. What do you do first?
@Muoki Cryptic. But true.
@sospeter
Compelling argument however when does this stop becoming a reference and become a lifestyle or moreover a necessary human function? Should it become a human function, when does it stop becoming a reference and become an influence?
Watchman.
On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 9:53 AM, <sospeter@elimu.co.ke> wrote:
> Dear Watchman, > > The internet does all that you have mentioned. It is not necessarily bad > that one no longer reads books. They still get the information, whether > it > is through reading or injecting it into the system. > > At the moment, we still read, but not books. Some of us listen too. > > Man works through information and the human race will survive through > getting more information, which will make them come up with different > ways > of doing stuff. Remember we started with sticks and stones for tools to > metal and now plastics and sand and soon graphene....see? > > As for schools not having caught up, that will happen soon enough. I'm > in > the business of providing a paradigm shift towards IT in schools. If the > government encourages this, we will get all schools online ama? > > My Cents, > Regards. > > > Tragic to some. ever heard about someone who had an accident and > > rather > > than > > help, people took out there phones and started recording it. It does > make > > us > > feel like who we are not. > > > > On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 12:26 AM, Jonas | Lamu Software < > > jonas@lamusoftware.com> wrote: > > > >> Can only speak for myself but the Internet has shifted me from having > >> to know things to be able to look for things. Being able to recite a > >> poem or remember an exact quote does not make sense any longer as it > >> is more important to know how to find this information than it is to > >> know > >> it. A lot of schools have unfortunately not caught up yet. > >> > >> It is not necessarily a bad thing but people who are not able to make > >> the shift (learn how to find reliable information) will be left > behind. > >> > >> I grew up without television so I still read a lot but only novels > >> not > >> tech books. > >> > >> Don't think the Internet is that much about craving tech, more about > >> information being freely available. > >> > >> > >> > >> On 12/03/2010 11:45 PM, Watchman wrote: > >> > >>> Every time a new tech launches, Man craves it. Granted it takes a > while > >>> to implement for example the automobile transition from Horse and > >>> Carriage. But once it picks up.. e.g. the iOS devices, Man goes > >>> GAGA! > >>> > >>> What's the internet doing to us? > >>> > >>> Open discussion here. > >>> > >>> Is it making us a smarter community? more knowledgeable? more > >>> intelligent or just more flick information dependent? > >>> > >>> The general and most widely used internet terminology i know of > >>> today > >>> is.. Google it! > >>> > >>> heck, i use it too. But question is, how many of us actually read a > >>> book > >>> in this glorious day of the information highway? > >>> > >>> And yes, i do know it's a friday night. > >>> > >>> Watchman. > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Skunkworks mailing list > >> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > >> ------------ > >> Skunkworks Rules > >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > >> ------------ > >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Skunkworks mailing list > > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > > ------------ > > Skunkworks Rules > > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > > ------------ > > Other services @ http://my.co.ke > > > _______________________________________________ > Skunkworks mailing list > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
-- ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. For the dark things cannot stand the light.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. For the dark things cannot stand the light.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. For the dark things cannot stand the light.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
I read alot, hardcover, paperbacks, ebooks. I prefer instructional videos myself. Google just helps me find the material I want. The only fault is google will take me to the most popular page, not necessarily the most relevant. (Gossip is very popular! just check on daily popular section).Its up to me to filter. Is the internet making me dumber? I don't think so because for me, reading a book is no different from reading an online article. I prefer wikipedia baceause atleast the authors are 'vetted'. In my opinion we just need to filter our online sources. If google was to do that, it would probably lead to the big corporates always having their links at the very top. And the poor enterprenuerial retailer having his links in oblivion. Making google evil!!! On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 1:00 PM, Joseph McDonald <mcdonaldoj@gmail.com>wrote:
I read e-books.....alot.
I read like 200 pages(that is my target) of written material per day.
But I download the books from the internet,and for me to get the book I google it.
For me the Internet makes me smarter,because it gives me various views from different sources,which I would otherwise not get if I only depend on books.
To aggregate all that information,for it to make sense or provide a solution requires a smart person.
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 8:15 PM, Watchman <skunkingrahim@gmail.com> wrote:
@Stephen, Ndungi. My thoughts were outlined to the same.
@Josiah. I'd rather watch them then read them ;)
Have been doing a lot of paperback reading lately and when i dawned on the internet once more for referencing, i realised there was something wrong with the way i was doing things over the past 8 years or so.. ( By wrong, i mean personal paradigm not anyone else's ) and it sparked the thought of asking out loud.
I read only non fiction, savethe Christopher paolini books and LOTR for fiction. Anything else just seemed to catch me asleep.
bookWatcher
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 7:55 PM, Josiah Mugambi <jmugambi@gmail.com>wrote:
Speaking for myself:
I read books (yes hardcover, paper backs) a lot - roughly 2-3 a month, as well as magazines, and still an avid reader of stuff online as well.
Something else to throw out there: Movie vs Book - I'd read The Bourne Trilogy over watching than watching the movies...
-- Josiah Mugambi
2010/12/5 Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com>
@Watchie,
I do not think there is a problem if the student or anyone who wishes to project his opinion on any subject, goes online and gets intimate with the relevant published material, digests it and then presents what he was able to extract from it. However, there is a huge problem if a discussion is carried out with en.wikipedia.org, bit.ly and fb.me links. It usually leads me to ask "ok so you referenced a great article/research paper by one Prof Watchman Nee, but what are your own thoughts on the matter?" or "have you explored the matter by yourself, with your mind free of the writers' encumbrances and biases?". Thats the kind of intimacy I am referring to .. ;-)
With the huge resource that the internets has become, it is now virtually impossible to catch your student plagiarising his/her term paper - esp here in Kenya where lecturers are technophobic. (Ironically, this technophobia applies to a good number of Comp. Sc lecturers as well, but thats fodder for another flame.) So in this I agree with you that more and more people are getting degrees via copy-paste, but those who are hungry for real knowledge and are genuinely passionate about what they are pursuing are finding the interwebs to be a God-sent. Shall we forgo these shujaas to curb a few cheats ?
On 05/12/2010, Watchman <skunkingrahim@gmail.com> wrote:
@David.
Agree with you,however i'm more keen on understanding whether we are actually acquiring more information and growing, or are we retaining only bits of information instead of learning. Yes. The internet has truly transformed what we know as information retrieval. We have everything at our disposal, yet statistically, we are not as intelligent as we should be.
According to the 2008 report information Behavior of the researcher of the Future, commissioned by the British library and the joint Information Systems Committee: *" Deep log studies show that, from undergraduates to professors, people exhibit a strong tendency toward shallow, horizontal, 'flicking' behavior in digital libraries. Society is dumbing down."*
Now, their question is similar to what i am saying which is, what are we doing, are we reading and learning or are we simply referencing and leaving? granted, we do take a piece of the cake with us but unless i'm mistaken, in the yester years, it would be a matter of reading through an entire book, gain the knowledge, understanding and the context of the book before writing a thesis paper and then citing the reference. Today, i am more than certain it is a matter of understanding who wrote the paper / book, get online, read the synopsis, get a brief, get information fast and then write your paper with citations.
This is not true to 100% of people, it is an example.
Watchman.
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 3:51 PM, David Njuguna <dnjuguna@gmail.com> wrote:
Does information gotten from watching a 20hour series from a youtube educational playlist from say Stanford channel any less useful than that gotten from reading a book?
Man has and will always learn new things to survive. The medium through which the information is received has always changed and will always change. When books were invented man shifted from smoke signals to books. Books are great but at some point man had to let go of the smoke signals.
To heat up this discussion up a little, does watching House TV series make us dumb? (As opposed to reading a sci-fi novel). Does the fact that some of these TV shows' scripts are so intensely researched that they even have panels of writers make them better than good old books?
D
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 11:45 AM, Watchman <skunkingrahim@gmail.com> wrote:
> @Jonas > > "has shifted me from having > to know things to be able to look for things. Being able to recite a > poem or remember an exact quote does not make sense any longer as it > is more important to know how to find this information than it is to know > it" > > Isn't that what i've just advocated against? Does this not mean that what > we are doing encourages us to rely on a non-experiential lifestyle? When > wanting to watch a new movie. What do you do first? > > @Muoki > Cryptic. But true. > > @sospeter > > Compelling argument however when does this stop becoming a reference and > become a lifestyle or moreover a necessary human function? Should it > become > a human function, when does it stop becoming a reference and become an > influence? > > Watchman. > > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 9:53 AM, <sospeter@elimu.co.ke> wrote: > >> Dear Watchman, >> >> The internet does all that you have mentioned. It is not necessarily bad >> that one no longer reads books. They still get the information, whether >> it >> is through reading or injecting it into the system. >> >> At the moment, we still read, but not books. Some of us listen too. >> >> Man works through information and the human race will survive through >> getting more information, which will make them come up with different >> ways >> of doing stuff. Remember we started with sticks and stones for tools to >> metal and now plastics and sand and soon graphene....see? >> >> As for schools not having caught up, that will happen soon enough. I'm >> in >> the business of providing a paradigm shift towards IT in schools. If the >> government encourages this, we will get all schools online ama? >> >> My Cents, >> Regards. >> >> > Tragic to some. ever heard about someone who had an accident and >> > rather >> > than >> > help, people took out there phones and started recording it. It does >> make >> > us >> > feel like who we are not. >> > >> > On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 12:26 AM, Jonas | Lamu Software < >> > jonas@lamusoftware.com> wrote: >> > >> >> Can only speak for myself but the Internet has shifted me from having >> >> to know things to be able to look for things. Being able to recite a >> >> poem or remember an exact quote does not make sense any longer as it >> >> is more important to know how to find this information than it is to >> >> know >> >> it. A lot of schools have unfortunately not caught up yet. >> >> >> >> It is not necessarily a bad thing but people who are not able to make >> >> the shift (learn how to find reliable information) will be left >> behind. >> >> >> >> I grew up without television so I still read a lot but only novels >> >> not >> >> tech books. >> >> >> >> Don't think the Internet is that much about craving tech, more about >> >> information being freely available. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 12/03/2010 11:45 PM, Watchman wrote: >> >> >> >>> Every time a new tech launches, Man craves it. Granted it takes a >> while >> >>> to implement for example the automobile transition from Horse and >> >>> Carriage. But once it picks up.. e.g. the iOS devices, Man goes >> >>> GAGA! >> >>> >> >>> What's the internet doing to us? >> >>> >> >>> Open discussion here. >> >>> >> >>> Is it making us a smarter community? more knowledgeable? more >> >>> intelligent or just more flick information dependent? >> >>> >> >>> The general and most widely used internet terminology i know of >> >>> today >> >>> is.. Google it! >> >>> >> >>> heck, i use it too. But question is, how many of us actually read a >> >>> book >> >>> in this glorious day of the information highway? >> >>> >> >>> And yes, i do know it's a friday night. >> >>> >> >>> Watchman. >> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Skunkworks mailing list >> >> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >> >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >> >> ------------ >> >> Skunkworks Rules >> >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >> >> ------------ >> >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Skunkworks mailing list >> > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >> > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >> > ------------ >> > Skunkworks Rules >> > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >> > ------------ >> > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Skunkworks mailing list >> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >> ------------ >> Skunkworks Rules >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >> ------------ >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >> > > > > -- > ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. > For the dark things cannot stand the light. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Skunkworks mailing list > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. For the dark things cannot stand the light.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. For the dark things cannot stand the light.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
Semantic Web was going to save us but its taking forever maybe Web 3.0 will help with the information overload. On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 12:20 PM, John Doe <fivepings@gmail.com> wrote:
I read alot, hardcover, paperbacks, ebooks. I prefer instructional videos myself. Google just helps me find the material I want.
The only fault is google will take me to the most popular page, not necessarily the most relevant. (Gossip is very popular! just check on daily popular section).Its up to me to filter.
Is the internet making me dumber? I don't think so because for me, reading a book is no different from reading an online article. I prefer wikipedia baceause atleast the authors are 'vetted'. In my opinion we just need to filter our online sources. If google was to do that, it would probably lead to the big corporates always having their links at the very top. And the poor enterprenuerial retailer having his links in oblivion. Making google evil!!!
On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 1:00 PM, Joseph McDonald <mcdonaldoj@gmail.com>wrote:
I read e-books.....alot.
I read like 200 pages(that is my target) of written material per day.
But I download the books from the internet,and for me to get the book I google it.
For me the Internet makes me smarter,because it gives me various views from different sources,which I would otherwise not get if I only depend on books.
To aggregate all that information,for it to make sense or provide a solution requires a smart person.
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 8:15 PM, Watchman <skunkingrahim@gmail.com> wrote:
@Stephen, Ndungi. My thoughts were outlined to the same.
@Josiah. I'd rather watch them then read them ;)
Have been doing a lot of paperback reading lately and when i dawned on the internet once more for referencing, i realised there was something wrong with the way i was doing things over the past 8 years or so.. ( By wrong, i mean personal paradigm not anyone else's ) and it sparked the thought of asking out loud.
I read only non fiction, savethe Christopher paolini books and LOTR for fiction. Anything else just seemed to catch me asleep.
bookWatcher
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 7:55 PM, Josiah Mugambi <jmugambi@gmail.com>wrote:
Speaking for myself:
I read books (yes hardcover, paper backs) a lot - roughly 2-3 a month, as well as magazines, and still an avid reader of stuff online as well.
Something else to throw out there: Movie vs Book - I'd read The Bourne Trilogy over watching than watching the movies...
-- Josiah Mugambi
2010/12/5 Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com>
@Watchie,
I do not think there is a problem if the student or anyone who wishes to project his opinion on any subject, goes online and gets intimate with the relevant published material, digests it and then presents what he was able to extract from it. However, there is a huge problem if a discussion is carried out with en.wikipedia.org, bit.ly and fb.me links. It usually leads me to ask "ok so you referenced a great article/research paper by one Prof Watchman Nee, but what are your own thoughts on the matter?" or "have you explored the matter by yourself, with your mind free of the writers' encumbrances and biases?". Thats the kind of intimacy I am referring to .. ;-)
With the huge resource that the internets has become, it is now virtually impossible to catch your student plagiarising his/her term paper - esp here in Kenya where lecturers are technophobic. (Ironically, this technophobia applies to a good number of Comp. Sc lecturers as well, but thats fodder for another flame.) So in this I agree with you that more and more people are getting degrees via copy-paste, but those who are hungry for real knowledge and are genuinely passionate about what they are pursuing are finding the interwebs to be a God-sent. Shall we forgo these shujaas to curb a few cheats ?
On 05/12/2010, Watchman <skunkingrahim@gmail.com> wrote:
@David.
Agree with you,however i'm more keen on understanding whether we are actually acquiring more information and growing, or are we retaining only bits of information instead of learning. Yes. The internet has truly transformed what we know as information retrieval. We have everything at our disposal, yet statistically, we are not as intelligent as we should be.
According to the 2008 report information Behavior of the researcher of the Future, commissioned by the British library and the joint Information Systems Committee: *" Deep log studies show that, from undergraduates to professors, people exhibit a strong tendency toward shallow, horizontal, 'flicking' behavior in digital libraries. Society is dumbing down."*
Now, their question is similar to what i am saying which is, what are we doing, are we reading and learning or are we simply referencing and leaving? granted, we do take a piece of the cake with us but unless i'm mistaken, in the yester years, it would be a matter of reading through an entire book, gain the knowledge, understanding and the context of the book before writing a thesis paper and then citing the reference. Today, i am more than certain it is a matter of understanding who wrote the paper / book, get online, read the synopsis, get a brief, get information fast and then write your paper with citations.
This is not true to 100% of people, it is an example.
Watchman.
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 3:51 PM, David Njuguna <dnjuguna@gmail.com> wrote:
> Does information gotten from watching a 20hour series from a youtube > educational playlist from say Stanford channel any less useful than that > gotten from reading a book? > > Man has and will always learn new things to survive. The medium through > which the information is received has always changed and will always > change. > When books were invented man shifted from smoke signals to books. Books > are > great but at some point man had to let go of the smoke signals. > > To heat up this discussion up a little, does watching House TV series make > us dumb? (As opposed to reading a sci-fi novel). Does the fact that some > of > these TV shows' scripts are so intensely researched that they even have > panels of writers make them better than good old books? > > D > > > On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 11:45 AM, Watchman <skunkingrahim@gmail.com> wrote: > >> @Jonas >> >> "has shifted me from having >> to know things to be able to look for things. Being able to recite a >> poem or remember an exact quote does not make sense any longer as it >> is more important to know how to find this information than it is to know >> it" >> >> Isn't that what i've just advocated against? Does this not mean that what >> we are doing encourages us to rely on a non-experiential lifestyle? When >> wanting to watch a new movie. What do you do first? >> >> @Muoki >> Cryptic. But true. >> >> @sospeter >> >> Compelling argument however when does this stop becoming a reference and >> become a lifestyle or moreover a necessary human function? Should it >> become >> a human function, when does it stop becoming a reference and become an >> influence? >> >> Watchman. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 9:53 AM, <sospeter@elimu.co.ke> wrote: >> >>> Dear Watchman, >>> >>> The internet does all that you have mentioned. It is not necessarily bad >>> that one no longer reads books. They still get the information, whether >>> it >>> is through reading or injecting it into the system. >>> >>> At the moment, we still read, but not books. Some of us listen too. >>> >>> Man works through information and the human race will survive through >>> getting more information, which will make them come up with different >>> ways >>> of doing stuff. Remember we started with sticks and stones for tools to >>> metal and now plastics and sand and soon graphene....see? >>> >>> As for schools not having caught up, that will happen soon enough. I'm >>> in >>> the business of providing a paradigm shift towards IT in schools. If the >>> government encourages this, we will get all schools online ama? >>> >>> My Cents, >>> Regards. >>> >>> > Tragic to some. ever heard about someone who had an accident and >>> > rather >>> > than >>> > help, people took out there phones and started recording it. It does >>> make >>> > us >>> > feel like who we are not. >>> > >>> > On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 12:26 AM, Jonas | Lamu Software < >>> > jonas@lamusoftware.com> wrote: >>> > >>> >> Can only speak for myself but the Internet has shifted me from having >>> >> to know things to be able to look for things. Being able to recite a >>> >> poem or remember an exact quote does not make sense any longer as it >>> >> is more important to know how to find this information than it is to >>> >> know >>> >> it. A lot of schools have unfortunately not caught up yet. >>> >> >>> >> It is not necessarily a bad thing but people who are not able to make >>> >> the shift (learn how to find reliable information) will be left >>> behind. >>> >> >>> >> I grew up without television so I still read a lot but only novels >>> >> not >>> >> tech books. >>> >> >>> >> Don't think the Internet is that much about craving tech, more about >>> >> information being freely available. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> On 12/03/2010 11:45 PM, Watchman wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> Every time a new tech launches, Man craves it. Granted it takes a >>> while >>> >>> to implement for example the automobile transition from Horse and >>> >>> Carriage. But once it picks up.. e.g. the iOS devices, Man goes >>> >>> GAGA! >>> >>> >>> >>> What's the internet doing to us? >>> >>> >>> >>> Open discussion here. >>> >>> >>> >>> Is it making us a smarter community? more knowledgeable? more >>> >>> intelligent or just more flick information dependent? >>> >>> >>> >>> The general and most widely used internet terminology i know of >>> >>> today >>> >>> is.. Google it! >>> >>> >>> >>> heck, i use it too. But question is, how many of us actually read a >>> >>> book >>> >>> in this glorious day of the information highway? >>> >>> >>> >>> And yes, i do know it's a friday night. >>> >>> >>> >>> Watchman. >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> Skunkworks mailing list >>> >> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>> >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>> >> ------------ >>> >> Skunkworks Rules >>> >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>> >> ------------ >>> >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>> >> >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Skunkworks mailing list >>> > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>> > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>> > ------------ >>> > Skunkworks Rules >>> > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>> > ------------ >>> > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Skunkworks mailing list >>> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>> ------------ >>> Skunkworks Rules >>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>> ------------ >>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. >> For the dark things cannot stand the light. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Skunkworks mailing list >> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >> ------------ >> Skunkworks Rules >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >> ------------ >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Skunkworks mailing list > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
-- ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. For the dark things cannot stand the light.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. For the dark things cannot stand the light.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
@Muoki - You may be right... But taking ages = I don't what will come first, semantic web or Nairobi passby :) On 6 December 2010 12:48, Muoki Maingi <mmviqtah@gmail.com> wrote:
Semantic Web was going to save us but its taking forever maybe Web 3.0 will help with the information overload.
On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 12:20 PM, John Doe <fivepings@gmail.com> wrote:
I read alot, hardcover, paperbacks, ebooks. I prefer instructional videos myself. Google just helps me find the material I want.
The only fault is google will take me to the most popular page, not necessarily the most relevant. (Gossip is very popular! just check on daily popular section).Its up to me to filter.
Is the internet making me dumber? I don't think so because for me, reading a book is no different from reading an online article. I prefer wikipedia baceause atleast the authors are 'vetted'. In my opinion we just need to filter our online sources. If google was to do that, it would probably lead to the big corporates always having their links at the very top. And the poor enterprenuerial retailer having his links in oblivion. Making google evil!!!
On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 1:00 PM, Joseph McDonald <mcdonaldoj@gmail.com>wrote:
I read e-books.....alot.
I read like 200 pages(that is my target) of written material per day.
But I download the books from the internet,and for me to get the book I google it.
For me the Internet makes me smarter,because it gives me various views from different sources,which I would otherwise not get if I only depend on books.
To aggregate all that information,for it to make sense or provide a solution requires a smart person.
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 8:15 PM, Watchman <skunkingrahim@gmail.com>wrote:
@Stephen, Ndungi. My thoughts were outlined to the same.
@Josiah. I'd rather watch them then read them ;)
Have been doing a lot of paperback reading lately and when i dawned on the internet once more for referencing, i realised there was something wrong with the way i was doing things over the past 8 years or so.. ( By wrong, i mean personal paradigm not anyone else's ) and it sparked the thought of asking out loud.
I read only non fiction, savethe Christopher paolini books and LOTR for fiction. Anything else just seemed to catch me asleep.
bookWatcher
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 7:55 PM, Josiah Mugambi <jmugambi@gmail.com>wrote:
Speaking for myself:
I read books (yes hardcover, paper backs) a lot - roughly 2-3 a month, as well as magazines, and still an avid reader of stuff online as well.
Something else to throw out there: Movie vs Book - I'd read The Bourne Trilogy over watching than watching the movies...
-- Josiah Mugambi
2010/12/5 Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com>
@Watchie,
I do not think there is a problem if the student or anyone who wishes to project his opinion on any subject, goes online and gets intimate with the relevant published material, digests it and then presents what he was able to extract from it. However, there is a huge problem if a discussion is carried out with en.wikipedia.org, bit.ly and fb.me links. It usually leads me to ask "ok so you referenced a great article/research paper by one Prof Watchman Nee, but what are your own thoughts on the matter?" or "have you explored the matter by yourself, with your mind free of the writers' encumbrances and biases?". Thats the kind of intimacy I am referring to .. ;-)
With the huge resource that the internets has become, it is now virtually impossible to catch your student plagiarising his/her term paper - esp here in Kenya where lecturers are technophobic. (Ironically, this technophobia applies to a good number of Comp. Sc lecturers as well, but thats fodder for another flame.) So in this I agree with you that more and more people are getting degrees via copy-paste, but those who are hungry for real knowledge and are genuinely passionate about what they are pursuing are finding the interwebs to be a God-sent. Shall we forgo these shujaas to curb a few cheats ?
On 05/12/2010, Watchman <skunkingrahim@gmail.com> wrote: > @David. > > Agree with you,however i'm more keen on understanding whether we are > actually acquiring more information and growing, or are we retaining only > bits of information instead of learning. Yes. The internet has truly > transformed what we know as information retrieval. We have everything at our > disposal, yet statistically, we are not as intelligent as we should be. > > According to the 2008 report information Behavior of the researcher of the > Future, commissioned by the British library and the joint Information > Systems Committee: *" Deep log studies show that, from undergraduates to > professors, people exhibit a strong tendency toward shallow, horizontal, > 'flicking' behavior in digital libraries. Society is dumbing down."* > > Now, their question is similar to what i am saying which is, what are we > doing, are we reading and learning or are we simply referencing and leaving? > granted, we do take a piece of the cake with us but unless i'm mistaken, in > the yester years, it would be a matter of reading through an entire book, > gain the knowledge, understanding and the context of the book before writing > a thesis paper and then citing the reference. Today, i am more than certain > it is a matter of understanding who wrote the paper / book, get online, read > the synopsis, get a brief, get information fast and then write your paper > with citations. > > This is not true to 100% of people, it is an example. > > > Watchman. > > > > On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 3:51 PM, David Njuguna <dnjuguna@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Does information gotten from watching a 20hour series from a youtube >> educational playlist from say Stanford channel any less useful than that >> gotten from reading a book? >> >> Man has and will always learn new things to survive. The medium through >> which the information is received has always changed and will always >> change. >> When books were invented man shifted from smoke signals to books. Books >> are >> great but at some point man had to let go of the smoke signals. >> >> To heat up this discussion up a little, does watching House TV series make >> us dumb? (As opposed to reading a sci-fi novel). Does the fact that some >> of >> these TV shows' scripts are so intensely researched that they even have >> panels of writers make them better than good old books? >> >> D >> >> >> On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 11:45 AM, Watchman <skunkingrahim@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> @Jonas >>> >>> "has shifted me from having >>> to know things to be able to look for things. Being able to recite a >>> poem or remember an exact quote does not make sense any longer as it >>> is more important to know how to find this information than it is to know >>> it" >>> >>> Isn't that what i've just advocated against? Does this not mean that what >>> we are doing encourages us to rely on a non-experiential lifestyle? When >>> wanting to watch a new movie. What do you do first? >>> >>> @Muoki >>> Cryptic. But true. >>> >>> @sospeter >>> >>> Compelling argument however when does this stop becoming a reference and >>> become a lifestyle or moreover a necessary human function? Should it >>> become >>> a human function, when does it stop becoming a reference and become an >>> influence? >>> >>> Watchman. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 9:53 AM, <sospeter@elimu.co.ke> wrote: >>> >>>> Dear Watchman, >>>> >>>> The internet does all that you have mentioned. It is not necessarily bad >>>> that one no longer reads books. They still get the information, whether >>>> it >>>> is through reading or injecting it into the system. >>>> >>>> At the moment, we still read, but not books. Some of us listen too. >>>> >>>> Man works through information and the human race will survive through >>>> getting more information, which will make them come up with different >>>> ways >>>> of doing stuff. Remember we started with sticks and stones for tools to >>>> metal and now plastics and sand and soon graphene....see? >>>> >>>> As for schools not having caught up, that will happen soon enough. I'm >>>> in >>>> the business of providing a paradigm shift towards IT in schools. If the >>>> government encourages this, we will get all schools online ama? >>>> >>>> My Cents, >>>> Regards. >>>> >>>> > Tragic to some. ever heard about someone who had an accident and >>>> > rather >>>> > than >>>> > help, people took out there phones and started recording it. It does >>>> make >>>> > us >>>> > feel like who we are not. >>>> > >>>> > On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 12:26 AM, Jonas | Lamu Software < >>>> > jonas@lamusoftware.com> wrote: >>>> > >>>> >> Can only speak for myself but the Internet has shifted me from having >>>> >> to know things to be able to look for things. Being able to recite a >>>> >> poem or remember an exact quote does not make sense any longer as it >>>> >> is more important to know how to find this information than it is to >>>> >> know >>>> >> it. A lot of schools have unfortunately not caught up yet. >>>> >> >>>> >> It is not necessarily a bad thing but people who are not able to make >>>> >> the shift (learn how to find reliable information) will be left >>>> behind. >>>> >> >>>> >> I grew up without television so I still read a lot but only novels >>>> >> not >>>> >> tech books. >>>> >> >>>> >> Don't think the Internet is that much about craving tech, more about >>>> >> information being freely available. >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> On 12/03/2010 11:45 PM, Watchman wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >>> Every time a new tech launches, Man craves it. Granted it takes a >>>> while >>>> >>> to implement for example the automobile transition from Horse and >>>> >>> Carriage. But once it picks up.. e.g. the iOS devices, Man goes >>>> >>> GAGA! >>>> >>> >>>> >>> What's the internet doing to us? >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Open discussion here. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Is it making us a smarter community? more knowledgeable? more >>>> >>> intelligent or just more flick information dependent? >>>> >>> >>>> >>> The general and most widely used internet terminology i know of >>>> >>> today >>>> >>> is.. Google it! >>>> >>> >>>> >>> heck, i use it too. But question is, how many of us actually read a >>>> >>> book >>>> >>> in this glorious day of the information highway? >>>> >>> >>>> >>> And yes, i do know it's a friday night. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Watchman. >>>> >>> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> Skunkworks mailing list >>>> >> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>> >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>> >> ------------ >>>> >> Skunkworks Rules >>>> >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>> >> ------------ >>>> >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>> >> >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > Skunkworks mailing list >>>> > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>> > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>> > ------------ >>>> > Skunkworks Rules >>>> > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>> > ------------ >>>> > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Skunkworks mailing list >>>> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>> ------------ >>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>> ------------ >>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. >>> For the dark things cannot stand the light. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Skunkworks mailing list >>> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>> ------------ >>> Skunkworks Rules >>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>> ------------ >>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Skunkworks mailing list >> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >> ------------ >> Skunkworks Rules >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >> ------------ >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >> > > > > -- > ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. > For the dark things cannot stand the light. > _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. For the dark things cannot stand the light.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 11:45 PM, Watchman <skunkingrahim@gmail.com> wrote:
...
What's the internet doing to us?
Open discussion here.
Is it making us a smarter community? more knowledgeable? more intelligent or just more flick information dependent? ...
I'm sure there once was a discussion about "are books dumbing us?" (suggesting that having you own "experiences" is better). And there may come a time when you can simply download "intelligence" straight into your brain. Whether things are getting better is debatable. Maybe we should have stayed in the hunter-gatherer days? Check out this interesting article by one Paul Graham: < http://paulgraham.com/boss.html>. Joseph.
participants (13)
-
Brainiac -
David Njuguna -
John Doe -
Jonas | Lamu Software -
Joseph McDonald -
Joseph Wayodi -
Josiah Mugambi -
Muoki Maingi -
Ndungi Kyalo -
sospeter＠elimu.co.ke -
Stephen Munguti -
TheBigBoss -
Watchman