http://spectrum.ieee.org/telecom/internet/how-bad-is-africas-internet "Even in the more stable countries, such as Angola and Kenya, that have built hefty broadband backbones, engineers have yet to find a tried-and-true way to extend cheap, dependable Internet service to rural communities." Is it really an engineering problem? ./bernard
@bernard it's mainly engineering, i suspect skills will be an issue in rural areas and politics.....I wish we'd do a 4g spectrum auction and move on already... This consortium maneno doesn't seem to be working out. http://www.stephentemple.co.uk/articles/4g-auction-mobile-connections-chance... The Germans did it so well the last time I was in some rural town they had LTE; how? simple, their 2010 spectrum auction that required mobile network operators to deploy LTE in the 800 MHz band in rural areas first before they could move on to bigger cities essentially meant rural areas got covered. And this has indeed been done as I noticed that LTE was available in many places where 3G was absent. In kenya, operators without 3G can just be allowed to roll out LTE in the same manner, give each a rural region to deploy first. It would be cheaper and rural broadband would be easily realised.... Jgitau On 29 Jan 2013, at 19:18, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote:
http://spectrum.ieee.org/telecom/internet/how-bad-is-africas-internet
"Even in the more stable countries, such as Angola and Kenya, that have built hefty broadband backbones, engineers have yet to find a tried-and-true way to extend cheap, dependable Internet service to rural communities."
Is it really an engineering problem?
./bernard
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Kenya is also awaiting to auction the 700/800MHZ band currently used by analog TV, to be used to roll-out LTE. And we cannot start auctioning it before switching of analog TV. But a lister in another forum, I think Brian Longwe was skeptical on the cost of LTE to the end-user. The initial price might be way beyond the reach of BOP. On 29 January 2013 19:41, John Gitau <jgitau@gmail.com> wrote:
@bernard it's mainly engineering, i suspect skills will be an issue in rural areas and politics.....I wish we'd do a 4g spectrum auction and move on already... This consortium maneno doesn't seem to be working out.
http://www.stephentemple.co.uk/articles/4g-auction-mobile-connections-chance...
The Germans did it so well the last time I was in some rural town they had LTE; how? simple, their 2010 spectrum auction that required mobile network operators to deploy LTE in the 800 MHz band in rural areas first before they could move on to bigger cities essentially meant rural areas got covered. And this has indeed been done as I noticed that LTE was available in many places where 3G was absent.
In kenya, operators without 3G can just be allowed to roll out LTE in the same manner, give each a rural region to deploy first. It would be cheaper and rural broadband would be easily realised....
Jgitau
On 29 Jan 2013, at 19:18, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote:
http://spectrum.ieee.org/telecom/internet/how-bad-is-africas-internet
"Even in the more stable countries, such as Angola and Kenya, that have built hefty broadband backbones, engineers have yet to find a tried-and-true way to extend cheap, dependable Internet service to rural communities."
Is it really an engineering problem?
./bernard
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-- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva For Business Development Transworld Computer Channels Cel: 0722402248 twitter.com/lordmwesh www.transworldAfrica.com | Fluent in computing kenya.or.ke | The Kenya we know
What particular skills would an engineer need to roll out a network in the rural area that would be peculiar to challenges already experienced elsewhere? Terrain notwithstanding. Most of the reasons behind your explanation are more to do with regulation, policies, etc ./bernard On Jan 29, 2013 7:41 PM, "John Gitau" <jgitau@gmail.com> wrote:
@bernard it's mainly engineering, i suspect skills will be an issue in rural areas and politics.....I wish we'd do a 4g spectrum auction and move on already... This consortium maneno doesn't seem to be working out.
http://www.stephentemple.co.uk/articles/4g-auction-mobile-connections-chance...
The Germans did it so well the last time I was in some rural town they had LTE; how? simple, their 2010 spectrum auction that required mobile network operators to deploy LTE in the 800 MHz band in rural areas first before they could move on to bigger cities essentially meant rural areas got covered. And this has indeed been done as I noticed that LTE was available in many places where 3G was absent.
In kenya, operators without 3G can just be allowed to roll out LTE in the same manner, give each a rural region to deploy first. It would be cheaper and rural broadband would be easily realised....
Jgitau
On 29 Jan 2013, at 19:18, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote:
http://spectrum.ieee.org/telecom/internet/how-bad-is-africas-internet
"Even in the more stable countries, such as Angola and Kenya, that have built hefty broadband backbones, engineers have yet to find a tried-and-true way to extend cheap, dependable Internet service to rural communities."
Is it really an engineering problem?
./bernard
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The only reason why the rral areas are not covered in broadband is the same reason Zuku, Faiba and access kenya are not in mukuru kwa njenga and Githurai. The residents there have far pressing needs than paying for broadband. Thus in a purely commercial sense, there is little incentive for telecom companies(who are after profits not helping rural folk) to invest in the rural areas. This is where the government comes in with its regulations and steer the process of broadband proliferation to the end it desires. On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 7:49 PM, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote:
What particular skills would an engineer need to roll out a network in the rural area that would be peculiar to challenges already experienced elsewhere? Terrain notwithstanding.
Most of the reasons behind your explanation are more to do with regulation, policies, etc
./bernard On Jan 29, 2013 7:41 PM, "John Gitau" <jgitau@gmail.com> wrote:
@bernard it's mainly engineering, i suspect skills will be an issue in rural areas and politics.....I wish we'd do a 4g spectrum auction and move on already... This consortium maneno doesn't seem to be working out.
http://www.stephentemple.co.uk/articles/4g-auction-mobile-connections-chance...
The Germans did it so well the last time I was in some rural town they had LTE; how? simple, their 2010 spectrum auction that required mobile network operators to deploy LTE in the 800 MHz band in rural areas first before they could move on to bigger cities essentially meant rural areas got covered. And this has indeed been done as I noticed that LTE was available in many places where 3G was absent.
In kenya, operators without 3G can just be allowed to roll out LTE in the same manner, give each a rural region to deploy first. It would be cheaper and rural broadband would be easily realised....
Jgitau
On 29 Jan 2013, at 19:18, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote:
http://spectrum.ieee.org/telecom/internet/how-bad-is-africas-internet
"Even in the more stable countries, such as Angola and Kenya, that have built hefty broadband backbones, engineers have yet to find a tried-and-true way to extend cheap, dependable Internet service to rural communities."
Is it really an engineering problem?
./bernard
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-- Regards, Mark Mwangi markmwangi.me.ke
@Bernard the issue that came up in a case I was involved in was how to support the infrastructure,ensure its safe and on the cheap. The technology if I use wifi (cheapest) and LTE arguably cheaper than 3G/Edge infrastructure and getting cheaper as we move along is not too expensive, but to address the cost issue, the best way to tackle this is by ensuring that the communities that use the network own and operate it supported by a larger telco/opco (think of rural broadband operators). The skills to both run the network and run a business are not as easy to come by as you try to make it sound. Even in Nairobi I know of organizations that take a really long time to fill positions in radio planning, strategy etc....so yes skills are an issue, yes they can be trained but no most people are not willing to do that, its just what it is. check out www.airjardi.com for an example of what can be done here, if you have a business model that you really feel could work for rural broadband, I can definitely show you quite a number of guys willing to fund it. Again getting the right people, with the right attitude and temperament to work in rural areas especially in the early stages is not as easy as in nbi, and as it is its not easy in most urban centers. and yes regulation/policies and some silliness plays a role in ensuring some of the issues never get resolved - but with devolution and a few changes to policy and other developments, I am very very optimistic about where rural broadband will be in about two years time. JGitau On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 7:49 PM, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote:
What particular skills would an engineer need to roll out a network in the rural area that would be peculiar to challenges already experienced elsewhere? Terrain notwithstanding.
Most of the reasons behind your explanation are more to do with regulation, policies, etc
./bernard On Jan 29, 2013 7:41 PM, "John Gitau" <jgitau@gmail.com> wrote:
@bernard it's mainly engineering, i suspect skills will be an issue in rural areas and politics.....I wish we'd do a 4g spectrum auction and move on already... This consortium maneno doesn't seem to be working out.
http://www.stephentemple.co.uk/articles/4g-auction-mobile-connections-chance...
The Germans did it so well the last time I was in some rural town they had LTE; how? simple, their 2010 spectrum auction that required mobile network operators to deploy LTE in the 800 MHz band in rural areas first before they could move on to bigger cities essentially meant rural areas got covered. And this has indeed been done as I noticed that LTE was available in many places where 3G was absent.
In kenya, operators without 3G can just be allowed to roll out LTE in the same manner, give each a rural region to deploy first. It would be cheaper and rural broadband would be easily realised....
Jgitau
On 29 Jan 2013, at 19:18, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote:
http://spectrum.ieee.org/telecom/internet/how-bad-is-africas-internet
"Even in the more stable countries, such as Angola and Kenya, that have built hefty broadband backbones, engineers have yet to find a tried-and-true way to extend cheap, dependable Internet service to rural communities."
Is it really an engineering problem?
./bernard
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-- **Gitau
Why are Ndemo's suggestions watered down before they are even given a chance to fail, or succeed. Isn't it strange that people are claiming that the rural areas have better needs than broadband from fibre and 3G connections. The same claim could have been made for Kenya's four, going to five cables. The people in Nairobi have better needs like food, medicine and water rather than high speed Internet. Furthermore, empowering people in the rural areas will see many of them go out of their perceived poverty, many being well informed. The price of LTE devices is out of reach for many Kenyans. The price of mobile phones was out of reach for many Kenyans at some point. So what other reason do we have for not allowing LTE? Mind you, if current mobile telcos are so keen on LTE, they can use their current 3G or 2G spectrum to roll out LTE. In the US, 3G has largely disappeared as operators used it for LTE roll out.
@Bernard, I would argue its more to do with policy and regulation than engineering. Why would I say so? 1. If we stopped laying fiber to the same buildings and instead only granted permission to dig up the roads to operators laying fiber to uncovered buildings, we'd probably have covered the entire country by now. 2. There is money to be made at " the bottom of the pyramid". You just need the right business model. Ask Royal media, Equity bank and Safaricom. Kickstart has pioneered an interesting business model based on using aid the same way an entrepreneur would use venture/ angel funding but charging for the product/ service. This creates ownership and sustainability. Two key challenges in rural areas. It is also based on the premise that the poor have two assets in abundance: Time and free/cheap labor, their key need is money. As long as your idea will make them money, they are game. See the link for more details.http://www.kickstart.org/ Much as engineering is an issue, this is fairly easy to fix using existing tools and methodologies. Human beings are creative and will find many ways to use the same tool. Some get high on alcohol, others use it as a disinfectant. Who knows what the rural folks would use Internet/technology for? Sent from my iPad On Jan 29, 2013, at 10:13 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
Why are Ndemo's suggestions watered down before they are even given a chance to fail, or succeed. Isn't it strange that people are claiming that the rural areas have better needs than broadband from fibre and 3G connections.
The same claim could have been made for Kenya's four, going to five cables. The people in Nairobi have better needs like food, medicine and water rather than high speed Internet.
Furthermore, empowering people in the rural areas will see many of them go out of their perceived poverty, many being well informed.
The price of LTE devices is out of reach for many Kenyans. The price of mobile phones was out of reach for many Kenyans at some point.
So what other reason do we have for not allowing LTE? Mind you, if current mobile telcos are so keen on LTE, they can use their current 3G or 2G spectrum to roll out LTE. In the US, 3G has largely disappeared as operators used it for LTE roll out. _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 1:02 AM, John Doe <fivepings@gmail.com> wrote:
@Bernard, I would argue its more to do with policy and regulation than engineering. Why would I say so?
+1
1. If we stopped laying fiber to the same buildings and instead only granted permission to dig up the roads to operators laying fiber to uncovered buildings, we'd probably have covered the entire country by now.
+1 again.
2. There is money to be made at " the bottom of the pyramid". You just need the right business model. Ask Royal media, Equity bank and Safaricom.
+1 again. You mind reader. I was about to reply along the same lines, but you've said it better. All I can add is that we need policies that encourage (or enforce) operators to provide services to underserved areas. (back to lurking) Steve
On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 11:23 AM, Steve Muchai <smuchai@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 1:02 AM, John Doe <fivepings@gmail.com> wrote:
[.....]
1. If we stopped laying fiber to the same buildings and instead only granted permission to dig up the roads to operators laying fiber to uncovered buildings, we'd probably have covered the entire country by now.
Something on the NANOG list today along-ish the same lines: http://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2013-January/055359.html BR, S
The main issue is the government's whole vision and strategy on how to deliver broadband to the rurual resident. The answer is simple, you need massive government goodwill and investment; both in regulation and capital expenditure. Looking out to private companies and the residents themselves doesnt work for the many reasons given here, and this is proven elsewhere. For example, how did the government of France ensure widespread internet use in the early 90's? they gave out a modem to each rural household to hook up on the X.25 network that laid out countrywide. It is how a government drives something like this that determines whether it succeeds or not.... On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 8:47 PM, Steve Muchai <smuchai@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 11:23 AM, Steve Muchai <smuchai@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 1:02 AM, John Doe <fivepings@gmail.com> wrote:
[.....]
1. If we stopped laying fiber to the same buildings and instead only granted permission to dig up the roads to operators laying fiber to uncovered buildings, we'd probably have covered the entire country by now.
Something on the NANOG list today along-ish the same lines:
http://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2013-January/055359.html
BR, S _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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the thing is I have sat with some government and some policy related bodies and can tell you there is good will, policies are being made, laws being proposed for change etc. Im not sure where the process breaks down oh wait there doesnt seem to be a process for getting us from where we are to where we want to be, I know there is a vision. Something like nofbi's expansion - ongoing will cover all 47 counties, extending that connectivity from where it lands to other local areas is a challenge that we can probably start proposing solutions for. I am in the wifi/lte camp if you want to do it on the cheap. and yes i believe lte will be as cheap as wifi if not cheaper in the near future. I also firmly believe that if the elections go well, at least 5 rural connectivity projects will launch (the ones I know about). so yes politics is a major issue .... JGitau On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 9:03 AM, Kinuthia Ngugi <kinuthia.ngugi@gmail.com>wrote:
The main issue is the government's whole vision and strategy on how to deliver broadband to the rurual resident. The answer is simple, you need massive government goodwill and investment; both in regulation and capital expenditure. Looking out to private companies and the residents themselves doesnt work for the many reasons given here, and this is proven elsewhere. For example, how did the government of France ensure widespread internet use in the early 90's? they gave out a modem to each rural household to hook up on the X.25 network that laid out countrywide. It is how a government drives something like this that determines whether it succeeds or not....
On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 8:47 PM, Steve Muchai <smuchai@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 11:23 AM, Steve Muchai <smuchai@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 1:02 AM, John Doe <fivepings@gmail.com> wrote:
[.....]
1. If we stopped laying fiber to the same buildings and instead only granted permission to dig up the roads to operators laying fiber to uncovered buildings, we'd probably have covered the entire country by now.
Something on the NANOG list today along-ish the same lines:
http://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2013-January/055359.html
BR, S _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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-- **Gitau
In need of 30pcs of sip ip handsets. Inbox me make and price
Tony, Send me a list of what you have - do you be any chance have wireless capable ones? ./Ok3ch On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 9:13 AM, Tony Gacheru <tonygacheru@gmail.com> wrote:
In need of 30pcs of sip ip handsets. Inbox me make and price
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Hehehehehe I want to buy not sell. But Linksys have wireless ones. You can check with coastdata -----Original Message----- From: skunkworks-bounces@lists.my.co.ke [mailto:skunkworks-bounces@lists.my.co.ke] On Behalf Of Okechukwu Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 9:33 AM To: Skunkworks Mailing List Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] ip phones Tony, Send me a list of what you have - do you be any chance have wireless capable ones? ./Ok3ch On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 9:13 AM, Tony Gacheru <tonygacheru@gmail.com> wrote:
In need of 30pcs of sip ip handsets. Inbox me make and price
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Then your English is pathetic! I thought I taught you well! ./Ok3ch On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 9:34 AM, Tony Gacheru <tonygacheru@gmail.com> wrote:
Hehehehehe I want to buy not sell. But Linksys have wireless ones. You can check with coastdata
-----Original Message----- From: skunkworks-bounces@lists.my.co.ke [mailto:skunkworks-bounces@lists.my.co.ke] On Behalf Of Okechukwu Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 9:33 AM To: Skunkworks Mailing List Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] ip phones
Tony,
Send me a list of what you have - do you be any chance have wireless capable ones?
./Ok3ch
On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 9:13 AM, Tony Gacheru <tonygacheru@gmail.com> wrote:
In need of 30pcs of sip ip handsets. Inbox me make and price
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okesh, I think you are the one lost..... I understood tony on his first mail. I wonder who was your teasher :-) Mutheu On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 12:59 PM, Okechukwu <okechukwu@gmail.com> wrote:
Then your English is pathetic! I thought I taught you well!
./Ok3ch
On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 9:34 AM, Tony Gacheru <tonygacheru@gmail.com> wrote:
Hehehehehe I want to buy not sell. But Linksys have wireless ones. You can check with coastdata
-----Original Message----- From: skunkworks-bounces@lists.my.co.ke [mailto:skunkworks-bounces@lists.my.co.ke] On Behalf Of Okechukwu Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 9:33 AM To: Skunkworks Mailing List Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] ip phones
Tony,
Send me a list of what you have - do you be any chance have wireless capable ones?
./Ok3ch
On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 9:13 AM, Tony Gacheru <tonygacheru@gmail.com> wrote:
In need of 30pcs of sip ip handsets. Inbox me make and price
_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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-- a mistake becomes a mistake once you repeat it.
Only God can judge me..... ./Ok3ch On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 1:01 PM, Mutheu Kisilu <kathesya@gmail.com> wrote:
okesh,
I think you are the one lost..... I understood tony on his first mail. I wonder who was your teasher :-)
Mutheu
On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 12:59 PM, Okechukwu <okechukwu@gmail.com> wrote:
Then your English is pathetic! I thought I taught you well!
./Ok3ch
On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 9:34 AM, Tony Gacheru <tonygacheru@gmail.com> wrote:
Hehehehehe I want to buy not sell. But Linksys have wireless ones. You can check with coastdata
-----Original Message----- From: skunkworks-bounces@lists.my.co.ke [mailto:skunkworks-bounces@lists.my.co.ke] On Behalf Of Okechukwu Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 9:33 AM To: Skunkworks Mailing List Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] ip phones
Tony,
Send me a list of what you have - do you be any chance have wireless capable ones?
./Ok3ch
On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 9:13 AM, Tony Gacheru <tonygacheru@gmail.com> wrote:
In need of 30pcs of sip ip handsets. Inbox me make and price
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-- a mistake becomes a mistake once you repeat it.
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