What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, get-your-hands-dirty experience. What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential design flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. Whiteafrican has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting elements. We can use that for starters. http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ ./bernard On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" <techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote: It's our professional duty and responsibility to question this. In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and inasmuch as we acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it under the carpet and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain irresponsible. Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, even clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client paying 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who undercut us. Anyway, back to issue at hand. @Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a proper voting @Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the data is already at IEBC servers? What would be the technological reason for the system to stop processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is being done by google from IEBC servers. So what exactly is failing? On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki <shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com
wrote:
Dear Skunks, Pole for the delay in results. These are the kind of things that make people suspicious and not trust local ICT professionals. The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. All they know is that 9b of their money was spent on the systems. The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that they can be managed by a powerful desk top on any relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent submission of results because all that is need is a good queue management algorith. A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from polling stations As have always said, the problem is instead of providing a solution, systems are provided instead.
Regards shad
------------------------------ *From:* Njoroge Tito <titonjoroge@gmail.com>
*To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2013 9:41 AM
*Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems
Put in perspectives:
The data set: about 33,000 polling stations. 6 positions being contested for. Presidential race had 8 candidates.
Just for presidential race, thats about 270,000 unique results to be populated in a database. 270,000 in 2 days and we have had significant failure.
Even if you multiply that number by 6 for other positions, assuming an average of 8 contestants per seat, that number comes to less than 2m entries in a database.
Equity bank has more than 5m customers. Safaricom has 15m subscribers on mpesa.
Even when you think about it in terms of transactions, the number of transactions goes down significantly.
This is a real shame for IEBC.
On 6 March 2013 09:09, Erik Hersman <erik@zungu.com> wrote:
http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/
Erik Hersman
www.ushahidi.com | www.iHub.co.ke <http://www.ihub.co.ke/> www.whiteafrican.com <http://www.afrigadget.com/> | @whiteafrican<http://twitter.com/whiteafrican>
On Mar 6, 2013, at 8:59 AM, Patrick Kariuki <patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Who said scaling MYSQL is necessary when the cheque and traffic comes once every 4 years?
On 3/6/13, joe mwirigi <joemwirigi@gmail.com> wrote:
Lets just say its a KES 9B lesson to the government that hires 'foreign companies' because they are 'big'
I hear, the 'weed' tells me one had to login to the same server(database) to send the results. Am not sure they did run tests with 30,000 concurrent users so the db kept giving way, halafu mnajua zile logs za mysql on error. They filled the disk like crazy! -- just speculating -- I in no way know these guys! Then I can imagine the conversation
Boss: vhat is happening Signh (shaking his head) Signh: donno databes only 10 MEg. Just chekin. Boss: Vy data not coming in u nno. Signh: dh -f
$ unknown command $ df -h
Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/sdb1 2000G 1999.2G 0.6G 99% / varrun 393M 144k 393M 1% /var/run varlock 393M 0 393M 0% /var/lock procbususb 393M 123k 393M 1% /proc/bus/usb udev 393M 123k 393M 1% /dev
Signh: They send too much, too much data, see Boss: Yeah, too much sending 2Tb full already, patel, vhere is that 4 Tb disk! just plug it and ve ar in business! Signh: >$sudo /etc/init.d/mysql restart
$password: ** $ wrong password try again:*** $ ERROR 2002 (HY000): Can't connect to local MySQL server
through socket '/var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock' (2)
$
On a lighter note though *_______________________________________________________________ We must Keep on, *
On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 11:05 PM, Dickson <dhikims@gmail.com> wrote:
Still the data amount is small even for processing. What amount of data does say bank systems process on a normal working day. Its bigger than what IEBC will process.
I believe we have skills that can handle that system. Let's give IEBC benefit of patience they sort themselves out. Best Regards,
Dickson.
---- http://qhim.wordpress.com
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Patrick Karanja <wabethi@gmail.com> Sender: skunkworks-bounces@lists.my.co.ke Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2013 22:48:50 To: Skunkworks Mailing List<skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Reply-To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems
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_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when you've got all the time in the world; 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no idea) 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error message) 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of possible assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages you've had with different production systems) 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give free advise, we know they're reading this - wait, isn't someone getting paid to do all these??) On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote:
What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, get-your-hands-dirty experience. What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential design flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. Whiteafrican has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting elements. We can use that for starters.
http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/
./bernard On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" <techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote:
It's our professional duty and responsibility to question this. In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and inasmuch as we acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it under the carpet and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain irresponsible.
Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, even clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client paying 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who undercut us.
Anyway, back to issue at hand.
@Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a proper voting
@Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the data is already at IEBC servers? What would be the technological reason for the system to stop processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is being done by google from IEBC servers.
So what exactly is failing?
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki < shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Skunks, Pole for the delay in results. These are the kind of things that make people suspicious and not trust local ICT professionals. The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. All they know is that 9b of their money was spent on the systems. The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that they can be managed by a powerful desk top on any relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent submission of results because all that is need is a good queue management algorith. A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from polling stations As have always said, the problem is instead of providing a solution, systems are provided instead.
Regards shad
------------------------------ *From:* Njoroge Tito <titonjoroge@gmail.com>
*To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2013 9:41 AM
*Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems
Put in perspectives:
The data set: about 33,000 polling stations. 6 positions being contested for. Presidential race had 8 candidates.
Just for presidential race, thats about 270,000 unique results to be populated in a database. 270,000 in 2 days and we have had significant failure.
Even if you multiply that number by 6 for other positions, assuming an average of 8 contestants per seat, that number comes to less than 2m entries in a database.
Equity bank has more than 5m customers. Safaricom has 15m subscribers on mpesa.
Even when you think about it in terms of transactions, the number of transactions goes down significantly.
This is a real shame for IEBC.
On 6 March 2013 09:09, Erik Hersman <erik@zungu.com> wrote:
http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/
Erik Hersman
www.ushahidi.com | www.iHub.co.ke <http://www.ihub.co.ke/> www.whiteafrican.com <http://www.afrigadget.com/> | @whiteafrican<http://twitter.com/whiteafrican>
On Mar 6, 2013, at 8:59 AM, Patrick Kariuki <patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Who said scaling MYSQL is necessary when the cheque and traffic comes once every 4 years?
On 3/6/13, joe mwirigi <joemwirigi@gmail.com> wrote:
Lets just say its a KES 9B lesson to the government that hires 'foreign companies' because they are 'big'
I hear, the 'weed' tells me one had to login to the same server(database) to send the results. Am not sure they did run tests with 30,000 concurrent users so the db kept giving way, halafu mnajua zile logs za mysql on error. They filled the disk like crazy! -- just speculating -- I in no way know these guys! Then I can imagine the conversation
Boss: vhat is happening Signh (shaking his head) Signh: donno databes only 10 MEg. Just chekin. Boss: Vy data not coming in u nno. Signh: dh -f
$ unknown command $ df -h
Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/sdb1 2000G 1999.2G 0.6G 99% / varrun 393M 144k 393M 1% /var/run varlock 393M 0 393M 0% /var/lock procbususb 393M 123k 393M 1% /proc/bus/usb udev 393M 123k 393M 1% /dev
Signh: They send too much, too much data, see Boss: Yeah, too much sending 2Tb full already, patel, vhere is that 4 Tb disk! just plug it and ve ar in business! Signh: >$sudo /etc/init.d/mysql restart
$password: ** $ wrong password try again:*** $ ERROR 2002 (HY000): Can't connect to local MySQL server
through socket '/var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock' (2)
$
On a lighter note though *_______________________________________________________________ We must Keep on, *
On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 11:05 PM, Dickson <dhikims@gmail.com> wrote:
Still the data amount is small even for processing. What amount of data does say bank systems process on a normal working day. Its bigger than what IEBC will process.
I believe we have skills that can handle that system. Let's give IEBC benefit of patience they sort themselves out. Best Regards,
Dickson.
---- http://qhim.wordpress.com
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Patrick Karanja <wabethi@gmail.com> Sender: skunkworks-bounces@lists.my.co.ke Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2013 22:48:50 To: Skunkworks Mailing List<skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Reply-To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems
_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical system? SMDH!!! ---- Kind Regards, Alex Nyalita On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki <patrick.kariuki@gmail.com>wrote:
Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when you've got all the time in the world; 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no idea) 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error message) 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of possible assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages you've had with different production systems) 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give free advise, we know they're reading this - wait, isn't someone getting paid to do all these??)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com>wrote:
What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, get-your-hands-dirty experience. What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential design flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. Whiteafrican has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting elements. We can use that for starters.
http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/
./bernard On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" <techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote:
It's our professional duty and responsibility to question this. In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and inasmuch as we acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it under the carpet and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain irresponsible.
Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, even clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client paying 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who undercut us.
Anyway, back to issue at hand.
@Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a proper voting
@Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the data is already at IEBC servers? What would be the technological reason for the system to stop processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is being done by google from IEBC servers.
So what exactly is failing?
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki < shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Skunks, Pole for the delay in results. These are the kind of things that make people suspicious and not trust local ICT professionals. The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. All they know is that 9b of their money was spent on the systems. The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that they can be managed by a powerful desk top on any relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent submission of results because all that is need is a good queue management algorith. A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from polling stations As have always said, the problem is instead of providing a solution, systems are provided instead.
Regards shad
------------------------------ *From:* Njoroge Tito <titonjoroge@gmail.com>
*To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2013 9:41 AM
*Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems
Put in perspectives:
The data set: about 33,000 polling stations. 6 positions being contested for. Presidential race had 8 candidates.
Just for presidential race, thats about 270,000 unique results to be populated in a database. 270,000 in 2 days and we have had significant failure.
Even if you multiply that number by 6 for other positions, assuming an average of 8 contestants per seat, that number comes to less than 2m entries in a database.
Equity bank has more than 5m customers. Safaricom has 15m subscribers on mpesa.
Even when you think about it in terms of transactions, the number of transactions goes down significantly.
This is a real shame for IEBC.
On 6 March 2013 09:09, Erik Hersman <erik@zungu.com> wrote:
http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/
Erik Hersman
www.ushahidi.com | www.iHub.co.ke <http://www.ihub.co.ke/> www.whiteafrican.com <http://www.afrigadget.com/> | @whiteafrican<http://twitter.com/whiteafrican>
On Mar 6, 2013, at 8:59 AM, Patrick Kariuki <patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Who said scaling MYSQL is necessary when the cheque and traffic comes once every 4 years?
On 3/6/13, joe mwirigi <joemwirigi@gmail.com> wrote:
Lets just say its a KES 9B lesson to the government that hires 'foreign companies' because they are 'big'
I hear, the 'weed' tells me one had to login to the same server(database) to send the results. Am not sure they did run tests with 30,000 concurrent users so the db kept giving way, halafu mnajua zile logs za mysql on error. They filled the disk like crazy! -- just speculating -- I in no way know these guys! Then I can imagine the conversation
Boss: vhat is happening Signh (shaking his head) Signh: donno databes only 10 MEg. Just chekin. Boss: Vy data not coming in u nno. Signh: dh -f
$ unknown command $ df -h
Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/sdb1 2000G 1999.2G 0.6G 99% / varrun 393M 144k 393M 1% /var/run varlock 393M 0 393M 0% /var/lock procbususb 393M 123k 393M 1% /proc/bus/usb udev 393M 123k 393M 1% /dev
Signh: They send too much, too much data, see Boss: Yeah, too much sending 2Tb full already, patel, vhere is that 4 Tb disk! just plug it and ve ar in business! Signh: >$sudo /etc/init.d/mysql restart
$password: ** $ wrong password try again:*** $ ERROR 2002 (HY000): Can't connect to local MySQL server
through socket '/var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock' (2)
$
On a lighter note though *_______________________________________________________________ We must Keep on, *
On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 11:05 PM, Dickson <dhikims@gmail.com> wrote:
Still the data amount is small even for processing. What amount of data does say bank systems process on a normal working day. Its bigger than what IEBC will process.
I believe we have skills that can handle that system. Let's give IEBC benefit of patience they sort themselves out. Best Regards,
Dickson.
---- http://qhim.wordpress.com
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Patrick Karanja <wabethi@gmail.com> Sender: skunkworks-bounces@lists.my.co.ke Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2013 22:48:50 To: Skunkworks Mailing List<skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Reply-To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems
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Skunks This article was written by Sara Elderkin on Feb 19, it gives a brief of the testing that was done on the system and the results thereof http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/article-108148/iebc-must-fix-results-transmis... The system has already failed and the only logical thing is to revert to the manual system. First step is to then preserve the system state for a forensic audit of what went wrong. On 6 March 2013 12:46, Alex Nyalita <nyalita@gmail.com> wrote:
Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical system? SMDH!!!
----
Kind Regards,
Alex Nyalita
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki < patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when you've got all the time in the world; 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no idea) 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error message) 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of possible assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages you've had with different production systems) 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give free advise, we know they're reading this - wait, isn't someone getting paid to do all these??)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com>wrote:
What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, get-your-hands-dirty experience. What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential design flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. Whiteafrican has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting elements. We can use that for starters.
http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/
./bernard On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" <techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote:
It's our professional duty and responsibility to question this. In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and inasmuch as we acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it under the carpet and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain irresponsible.
Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, even clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client paying 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who undercut us.
Anyway, back to issue at hand.
@Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a proper voting
@Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the data is already at IEBC servers? What would be the technological reason for the system to stop processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is being done by google from IEBC servers.
So what exactly is failing?
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki < shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Skunks, Pole for the delay in results. These are the kind of things that make people suspicious and not trust local ICT professionals. The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. All they know is that 9b of their money was spent on the systems. The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that they can be managed by a powerful desk top on any relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent submission of results because all that is need is a good queue management algorith. A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from polling stations As have always said, the problem is instead of providing a solution, systems are provided instead.
Regards shad
------------------------------ *From:* Njoroge Tito <titonjoroge@gmail.com>
*To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2013 9:41 AM
*Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems
Put in perspectives:
The data set: about 33,000 polling stations. 6 positions being contested for. Presidential race had 8 candidates.
Just for presidential race, thats about 270,000 unique results to be populated in a database. 270,000 in 2 days and we have had significant failure.
Even if you multiply that number by 6 for other positions, assuming an average of 8 contestants per seat, that number comes to less than 2m entries in a database.
Equity bank has more than 5m customers. Safaricom has 15m subscribers on mpesa.
Even when you think about it in terms of transactions, the number of transactions goes down significantly.
This is a real shame for IEBC.
On 6 March 2013 09:09, Erik Hersman <erik@zungu.com> wrote:
http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/
Erik Hersman
www.ushahidi.com | www.iHub.co.ke <http://www.ihub.co.ke/> www.whiteafrican.com <http://www.afrigadget.com/> | @whiteafrican<http://twitter.com/whiteafrican>
On Mar 6, 2013, at 8:59 AM, Patrick Kariuki <patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Who said scaling MYSQL is necessary when the cheque and traffic comes once every 4 years?
On 3/6/13, joe mwirigi <joemwirigi@gmail.com> wrote:
Lets just say its a KES 9B lesson to the government that hires 'foreign companies' because they are 'big'
I hear, the 'weed' tells me one had to login to the same server(database) to send the results. Am not sure they did run tests with 30,000 concurrent users so the db kept giving way, halafu mnajua zile logs za mysql on error. They filled the disk like crazy! -- just speculating -- I in no way know these guys! Then I can imagine the conversation
Boss: vhat is happening Signh (shaking his head) Signh: donno databes only 10 MEg. Just chekin. Boss: Vy data not coming in u nno. Signh: dh -f
$ unknown command $ df -h
Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/sdb1 2000G 1999.2G 0.6G 99% / varrun 393M 144k 393M 1% /var/run varlock 393M 0 393M 0% /var/lock procbususb 393M 123k 393M 1% /proc/bus/usb udev 393M 123k 393M 1% /dev
Signh: They send too much, too much data, see Boss: Yeah, too much sending 2Tb full already, patel, vhere is that 4 Tb disk! just plug it and ve ar in business! Signh: >$sudo /etc/init.d/mysql restart
$password: ** $ wrong password try again:*** $ ERROR 2002 (HY000): Can't connect to local MySQL server
through socket '/var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock' (2)
$
On a lighter note though *_______________________________________________________________ We must Keep on, *
On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 11:05 PM, Dickson <dhikims@gmail.com> wrote:
Still the data amount is small even for processing. What amount of data does say bank systems process on a normal working day. Its bigger than what IEBC will process.
I believe we have skills that can handle that system. Let's give IEBC benefit of patience they sort themselves out. Best Regards,
Dickson.
---- http://qhim.wordpress.com
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Patrick Karanja <wabethi@gmail.com> Sender: skunkworks-bounces@lists.my.co.ke Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2013 22:48:50 To: Skunkworks Mailing List<skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Reply-To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems
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A well-configured Windows stack wold have done the job. This is (probably) waaay bigger than the OS. On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:46 PM, Alex Nyalita <nyalita@gmail.com> wrote:
Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical system? SMDH!!!
----
Kind Regards,
Alex Nyalita
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki < patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when you've got all the time in the world; 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no idea) 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error message) 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of possible assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages you've had with different production systems) 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give free advise, we know they're reading this - wait, isn't someone getting paid to do all these??)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com>wrote:
What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, get-your-hands-dirty experience. What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential design flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. Whiteafrican has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting elements. We can use that for starters.
http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/
./bernard On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" <techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote:
It's our professional duty and responsibility to question this. In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and inasmuch as we acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it under the carpet and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain irresponsible.
Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, even clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client paying 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who undercut us.
Anyway, back to issue at hand.
@Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a proper voting
@Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the data is already at IEBC servers? What would be the technological reason for the system to stop processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is being done by google from IEBC servers.
So what exactly is failing?
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki < shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Skunks, Pole for the delay in results. These are the kind of things that make people suspicious and not trust local ICT professionals. The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. All they know is that 9b of their money was spent on the systems. The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that they can be managed by a powerful desk top on any relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent submission of results because all that is need is a good queue management algorith. A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from polling stations As have always said, the problem is instead of providing a solution, systems are provided instead.
Regards shad
------------------------------ *From:* Njoroge Tito <titonjoroge@gmail.com>
*To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2013 9:41 AM
*Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems
Put in perspectives:
The data set: about 33,000 polling stations. 6 positions being contested for. Presidential race had 8 candidates.
Just for presidential race, thats about 270,000 unique results to be populated in a database. 270,000 in 2 days and we have had significant failure.
Even if you multiply that number by 6 for other positions, assuming an average of 8 contestants per seat, that number comes to less than 2m entries in a database.
Equity bank has more than 5m customers. Safaricom has 15m subscribers on mpesa.
Even when you think about it in terms of transactions, the number of transactions goes down significantly.
This is a real shame for IEBC.
On 6 March 2013 09:09, Erik Hersman <erik@zungu.com> wrote:
http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/
Erik Hersman
www.ushahidi.com | www.iHub.co.ke <http://www.ihub.co.ke/> www.whiteafrican.com <http://www.afrigadget.com/> | @whiteafrican<http://twitter.com/whiteafrican>
On Mar 6, 2013, at 8:59 AM, Patrick Kariuki <patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Who said scaling MYSQL is necessary when the cheque and traffic comes once every 4 years?
On 3/6/13, joe mwirigi <joemwirigi@gmail.com> wrote:
Lets just say its a KES 9B lesson to the government that hires 'foreign companies' because they are 'big'
I hear, the 'weed' tells me one had to login to the same server(database) to send the results. Am not sure they did run tests with 30,000 concurrent users so the db kept giving way, halafu mnajua zile logs za mysql on error. They filled the disk like crazy! -- just speculating -- I in no way know these guys! Then I can imagine the conversation
Boss: vhat is happening Signh (shaking his head) Signh: donno databes only 10 MEg. Just chekin. Boss: Vy data not coming in u nno. Signh: dh -f
$ unknown command $ df -h
Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/sdb1 2000G 1999.2G 0.6G 99% / varrun 393M 144k 393M 1% /var/run varlock 393M 0 393M 0% /var/lock procbususb 393M 123k 393M 1% /proc/bus/usb udev 393M 123k 393M 1% /dev
Signh: They send too much, too much data, see Boss: Yeah, too much sending 2Tb full already, patel, vhere is that 4 Tb disk! just plug it and ve ar in business! Signh: >$sudo /etc/init.d/mysql restart
$password: ** $ wrong password try again:*** $ ERROR 2002 (HY000): Can't connect to local MySQL server
through socket '/var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock' (2)
$
On a lighter note though *_______________________________________________________________ We must Keep on, *
On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 11:05 PM, Dickson <dhikims@gmail.com> wrote:
Still the data amount is small even for processing. What amount of data does say bank systems process on a normal working day. Its bigger than what IEBC will process.
I believe we have skills that can handle that system. Let's give IEBC benefit of patience they sort themselves out. Best Regards,
Dickson.
---- http://qhim.wordpress.com
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Patrick Karanja <wabethi@gmail.com> Sender: skunkworks-bounces@lists.my.co.ke Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2013 22:48:50 To: Skunkworks Mailing List<skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Reply-To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems
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-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- //when i say "honey", i mean the sweet, sticky stuff that bees make... -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
See? The last bastion of "professionals" And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows. Bad craftsmen blame their tools On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote:
Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical system? SMDH!!!
----
Kind Regards,
Alex Nyalita
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki < patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when you've got all the time in the world; 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no idea) 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error message) 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of possible assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages you've had with different production systems) 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give free advise, we know they're reading this - wait, isn't someone getting paid to do all these??)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com>wrote:
What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, get-your-hands-dirty experience. What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential design flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. Whiteafrican has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting elements. We can use that for starters.
http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/
./bernard On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" <techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote:
It's our professional duty and responsibility to question this. In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and inasmuch as we acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it under the carpet and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain irresponsible.
Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, even clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client paying 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who undercut us.
Anyway, back to issue at hand.
@Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a proper voting
@Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the data is already at IEBC servers? What would be the technological reason for the system to stop processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is being done by google from IEBC servers.
So what exactly is failing?
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki < shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Skunks, Pole for the delay in results. These are the kind of things that make people suspicious and not trust local ICT professionals. The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. All they know is that 9b of their money was spent on the systems. The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that they can be managed by a powerful desk top on any relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent submission of results because all that is need is a good queue management algorith. A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from polling stations As have always said, the problem is instead of providing a solution, systems are provided instead.
Regards shad
------------------------------ *Fro*
Skunkers, far and above what iebc is going through, dont you think our software engineers (kenyanborn) could have developed a sysytem that could have stood the test of this election. Mr. Kukubo who is in this list and i believe many IT managers in Kenya could have brought up the opportunity for Kenyans to develop their own to manage their own. There is a level of kudharau to our software and even network engineers in Kenya. It must stop. On Mar 6, 2013 1:15 PM, "Rad!" <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
See? The last bastion of "professionals"
And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows.
Bad craftsmen blame their tools
On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote:
Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical system? SMDH!!!
----
Kind Regards,
Alex Nyalita
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki < patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when you've got all the time in the world; 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no idea) 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error message) 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of possible assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages you've had with different production systems) 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give free advise, we know they're reading this - wait, isn't someone getting paid to do all these??)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com>wrote:
What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, get-your-hands-dirty experience. What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential design flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. Whiteafrican has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting elements. We can use that for starters.
http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/
./bernard On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" <techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote:
It's our professional duty and responsibility to question this. In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and inasmuch as we acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it under the carpet and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain irresponsible.
Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, even clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client paying 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who undercut us.
Anyway, back to issue at hand.
@Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a proper voting
@Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the data is already at IEBC servers? What would be the technological reason for the system to stop processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is being done by google from IEBC servers.
So what exactly is failing?
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki < shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Skunks, Pole for the delay in results. These are the kind of things that make people suspicious and not trust local ICT professionals. The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. All they know is that 9b of their money was spent on the systems. The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that they can be managed by a powerful desk top on any relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent submission of results because all that is need is a good queue management algorith. A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from polling stations As have always said, the problem is instead of providing a solution, systems are provided instead.
Regards shad
------------------------------ *Fro*
_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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@davis The starting point of this would be for Kenyan open-source solutions/projects that give confidence and evidence our potential to do so. This "kadharau" stems partly from our lack of portfolio as a sector... My thoughts anyway. On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 2:45 PM, Davis Munene <davismunene@gmail.com> wrote:
Skunkers, far and above what iebc is going through, dont you think our software engineers (kenyanborn) could have developed a sysytem that could have stood the test of this election. Mr. Kukubo who is in this list and i believe many IT managers in Kenya could have brought up the opportunity for Kenyans to develop their own to manage their own. There is a level of kudharau to our software and even network engineers in Kenya. It must stop. On Mar 6, 2013 1:15 PM, "Rad!" <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
See? The last bastion of "professionals"
And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows.
Bad craftsmen blame their tools
On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote:
Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical system? SMDH!!!
----
Kind Regards,
Alex Nyalita
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki < patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when you've got all the time in the world; 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no idea) 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error message) 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of possible assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages you've had with different production systems) 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give free advise, we know they're reading this - wait, isn't someone getting paid to do all these??)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com>wrote:
What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, get-your-hands-dirty experience. What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential design flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. Whiteafrican has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting elements. We can use that for starters.
http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/
./bernard On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" <techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote:
It's our professional duty and responsibility to question this. In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and inasmuch as we acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it under the carpet and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain irresponsible.
Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, even clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client paying 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who undercut us.
Anyway, back to issue at hand.
@Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a proper voting
@Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the data is already at IEBC servers? What would be the technological reason for the system to stop processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is being done by google from IEBC servers.
So what exactly is failing?
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki < shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Skunks, Pole for the delay in results. These are the kind of things that make people suspicious and not trust local ICT professionals. The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. All they know is that 9b of their money was spent on the systems. The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that they can be managed by a powerful desk top on any relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent submission of results because all that is need is a good queue management algorith. A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from polling stations As have always said, the problem is instead of providing a solution, systems are provided instead.
Regards shad
------------------------------ *Fro*
_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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-- Kore Francis Njenga Running and Walking are only breaths apart.
Skunks, If I knew that this windows-vs-linux thing was so emotive, I'd have skipped it totally. It is really obscuring the point I'm trying to make - which is - opening up softwares built in the public interest - not just to strengthen the systems, but also to foster confidence among the varioius stake-holders. @Steve, you're really in agreement with me. We're all speculating, so treat my "windows 8 server" bashing as just that. Just between you and me, I know that mysql would complain thus in a Linux system if it ran out of disk space - because Linux stores locks on the disk. I didn't know the same happened in windows too. But hey, we're free to speculate in the absence of information. @Rad, a bad workman 'quarrels' with his tool. Most of those who 'blame' their tools seldom work, thus they don't qualify to be called workmen of any type.... A good workman selects the right tool for the job. ________________________________ From: Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems See? The last bastion of "professionals" And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows. Bad craftsmen blame their tools On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote: Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical system? SMDH!!!
----
Kind Regards,
Alex Nyalita
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki <patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when you've got all the time in the world;
1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no idea) 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error message) 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of possible assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages you've had with different production systems) 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give free advise, we know they're reading this - wait, isn't someone getting paid to do all these??)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote:
What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, get-your-hands-dirty experience.
What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential design flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. Whiteafrican has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting elements. We can use that for starters. http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ ./bernard On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" <techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote:
It's our professional duty and responsibility to question this. In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and inasmuch as we acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it under the carpet and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain irresponsible.
Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, even clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client paying 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who undercut us. Anyway, back to issue at hand. @Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a proper voting @Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the data is already at IEBC servers? What would be the technological reason for the system to stop processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is being done by google from IEBC servers. So what exactly is failing?
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki <shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Skunks,
Pole for the delay in results. These are the kind of things that make people suspicious and not trust local ICT professionals. The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. All they know is that 9b of their money was spent on the systems. The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that they can be managed by a powerful desk top on any relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent submission of results because all that is need is a good queue management algorith. A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from polling stations As have always said, the problem is instead of providing a solution, systems are provided instead.
Regards shad
________________________________ Fro
_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
Then I wish you had said that to begin with sans the knee jerk reaction. I absolutely agree with you about the opening up of the software, and not just that - the processes and procedures followed by all the people in the chain On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Bernard Owuor wrote:
Skunks, If I knew that this windows-vs-linux thing was so emotive, I'd have skipped it totally.
It is really obscuring the point I'm trying to make - which is - opening up softwares built in the public interest - not just to strengthen the systems, but also to foster confidence among the varioius stake-holders.
@Steve, you're really in agreement with me. We're all speculating, so treat my "windows 8 server" bashing as just that. Just between you and me, I know that mysql would complain thus in a Linux system if it ran out of disk space - because Linux stores locks on the disk. I didn't know the same happened in windows too. But hey, we're free to speculate in the absence of information.
@Rad, a bad workman 'quarrels' with his tool. Most of those who 'blame' their tools seldom work, thus they don't qualify to be called workmen of any type.... A good workman selects the right tool for the job.
------------------------------ *From:* Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'conradakunga@gmail.com');>> *To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke<javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke');>>
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:14 PM *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems
See? The last bastion of "professionals"
And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows.
Bad craftsmen blame their tools
On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote:
Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical system? SMDH!!!
----
Kind Regards,
Alex Nyalita
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki < patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when you've got all the time in the world; 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no idea) 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error message) 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of possible assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages you've had with different production systems) 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give free advise, we know they're reading this - wait, isn't someone getting paid to do all these??)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com>wrote:
What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, get-your-hands-dirty experience. What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential design flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. Whiteafrican has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting elements. We can use that for starters. http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ ./bernard On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" <techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote:
It's our professional duty and responsibility to question this. In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and inasmuch as we acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it under the carpet and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain irresponsible.
Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, even clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client paying 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who undercut us.
Anyway, back to issue at hand.
@Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a proper voting
@Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the data is already at IEBC servers? What would be the technological reason for the system to stop processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is being done by google from IEBC servers.
So what exactly is failing?
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki < shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Skunks, Pole for the delay in results. These are the kind of things that make people suspicious and not trust local ICT professionals. The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. All they know is that 9b of their money was spent on the systems. The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that they can be managed by a powerful desk top on any relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent submission of results because all that is need is a good queue management algorith. A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from polling stations As have al
Cool, we have made up. Hugs and shoulder pats. Can we get back to the issue at hand now? :) On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
Then I wish you had said that to begin with sans the knee jerk reaction.
I absolutely agree with you about the opening up of the software, and not just that - the processes and procedures followed by all the people in the chain
On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Bernard Owuor wrote:
Skunks, If I knew that this windows-vs-linux thing was so emotive, I'd have skipped it totally.
It is really obscuring the point I'm trying to make - which is - opening up softwares built in the public interest - not just to strengthen the systems, but also to foster confidence among the varioius stake-holders.
@Steve, you're really in agreement with me. We're all speculating, so treat my "windows 8 server" bashing as just that. Just between you and me, I know that mysql would complain thus in a Linux system if it ran out of disk space - because Linux stores locks on the disk. I didn't know the same happened in windows too. But hey, we're free to speculate in the absence of information.
@Rad, a bad workman 'quarrels' with his tool. Most of those who 'blame' their tools seldom work, thus they don't qualify to be called workmen of any type.... A good workman selects the right tool for the job.
------------------------------ *From:* Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> *To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:14 PM *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems
See? The last bastion of "professionals"
And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows.
Bad craftsmen blame their tools
On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote:
Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical system? SMDH!!!
----
Kind Regards,
Alex Nyalita
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki < patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when you've got all the time in the world; 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no idea) 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error message) 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of possible assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages you've had with different production systems) 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give free advise, we know they're reading this - wait, isn't someone getting paid to do all these??)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com>wrote:
What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, get-your-hands-dirty experience. What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential design flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. Whiteafrican has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting elements. We can use that for starters. http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ ./bernard On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" <techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote:
It's our professional duty and responsibility to question this. In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and inasmuch as we acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it under the carpet and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain irresponsible.
Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, even clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client paying 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who undercut us.
Anyway, back to issue at hand.
@Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a proper voting
@Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the data is already at IEBC servers? What would be the technological reason for the system to stop processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is being done by google from IEBC servers.
So what exactly is failing?
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki < shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Skunks, Pole for the delay in results. These are the kind of things that make people suspicious and not trust local ICT professionals. The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. All they know is that 9b of their money was spent on the systems. The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that they can be managed by a powerful desk top on any relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent submission of results because all that is need is a good queue management algorith. A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from polling stations As have al
_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
I just wanted to respond to many of the issues raised today about the IEBC, the electronic tallying system, and about open access. As one of the few non-Kenyans on the list (2 months in Nairobi, previously NY where I did alot of Python work), maybe I have a unique outsiders point of view. Of course, this is not my election, but I it is important to the world that Kenya has strong institutions and the duty to create and maintain those institutions lies with everybody. Hardware is likely not the problem here (disk space comments aside - which are surely do to logical, not physical errors), the problem is multifaceted: On this list, there is a strong bias towards "Kenyan solutions" or "Kenyanborn". Aside from finding this kind of offensive, it's also just petty and backwards. The reason IEBC exists is not to support the local ICT industry, it's to facilitate a trustworthy platform on which Kenyan elections can take place. In addition, there are hundreds of elections a year around the world and for Kenya to have a one-off system that has never been used elsewhere and will never be used elsewhere is neither efficient nor high quality. Maybe the local word processor and spreadsheet apps should be "Kenyanborn" too? At my last job in the States, almost half the team was non-American and that was a strength, not a weakness. We don't know what happened at the IEBC yet, and kudos to the people working to get that data available, but the failures here cannot be blamed on 'outsiders'. Some of the commentary is bordering on xenophobic. As for openness at the code level, that would certainly be awesome. Check out this article ( http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/11/internet-based-and-open-source-how-e...) and connect with the Brazilians and Australians rather than try to create a techno-autarky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky). Cheers, Adam https://twitter.com/varud +254 712 966 801 https://twitter.com/varud https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Bwana Lawi <mail2lawi@gmail.com> wrote:
Cool, we have made up. Hugs and shoulder pats.
Can we get back to the issue at hand now?
:)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
Then I wish you had said that to begin with sans the knee jerk reaction.
I absolutely agree with you about the opening up of the software, and not just that - the processes and procedures followed by all the people in the chain
On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Bernard Owuor wrote:
Skunks, If I knew that this windows-vs-linux thing was so emotive, I'd have skipped it totally.
It is really obscuring the point I'm trying to make - which is - opening up softwares built in the public interest - not just to strengthen the systems, but also to foster confidence among the varioius stake-holders.
@Steve, you're really in agreement with me. We're all speculating, so treat my "windows 8 server" bashing as just that. Just between you and me, I know that mysql would complain thus in a Linux system if it ran out of disk space - because Linux stores locks on the disk. I didn't know the same happened in windows too. But hey, we're free to speculate in the absence of information.
@Rad, a bad workman 'quarrels' with his tool. Most of those who 'blame' their tools seldom work, thus they don't qualify to be called workmen of any type.... A good workman selects the right tool for the job.
------------------------------ *From:* Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> *To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:14 PM *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems
See? The last bastion of "professionals"
And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows.
Bad craftsmen blame their tools
On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote:
Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical system? SMDH!!!
----
Kind Regards,
Alex Nyalita
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki < patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when you've got all the time in the world; 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no idea) 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error message) 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of possible assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages you've had with different production systems) 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give free advise, we know they're reading this - wait, isn't someone getting paid to do all these??)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com>wrote:
What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, get-your-hands-dirty experience. What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential design flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. Whiteafrican has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting elements. We can use that for starters. http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ ./bernard On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" <techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote:
It's our professional duty and responsibility to question this. In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and inasmuch as we acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it under the carpet and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain irresponsible.
Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, even clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client paying 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who undercut us.
Anyway, back to issue at hand.
@Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a proper voting
@Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the data is already at IEBC servers? What would be the technological reason for the system to stop processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is being done by google from IEBC servers.
So what exactly is failing?
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki < shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Skunks, Pole for the delay in results. These are the kind of things that make people suspicious and not trust local ICT professionals. The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. All they know is that 9b of their money was spent on the systems. The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that they can be managed by a powerful desk top on any relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent submission of results because all that is need is a good queue management algorith. A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from polling stations As have al
_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
The problem was not the amount of disk space available, but how disk provisioning/partitioning was done for the mysql db...this then points to a skills issue, not a resources issue.. #mytwocentsworth. On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Adam Nelson <adam@varud.com> wrote:
I just wanted to respond to many of the issues raised today about the IEBC, the electronic tallying system, and about open access. As one of the few non-Kenyans on the list (2 months in Nairobi, previously NY where I did alot of Python work), maybe I have a unique outsiders point of view.
Of course, this is not my election, but I it is important to the world that Kenya has strong institutions and the duty to create and maintain those institutions lies with everybody.
Hardware is likely not the problem here (disk space comments aside - which are surely do to logical, not physical errors), the problem is multifaceted:
On this list, there is a strong bias towards "Kenyan solutions" or "Kenyanborn". Aside from finding this kind of offensive, it's also just petty and backwards. The reason IEBC exists is not to support the local ICT industry, it's to facilitate a trustworthy platform on which Kenyan elections can take place. In addition, there are hundreds of elections a year around the world and for Kenya to have a one-off system that has never been used elsewhere and will never be used elsewhere is neither efficient nor high quality. Maybe the local word processor and spreadsheet apps should be "Kenyanborn" too?
At my last job in the States, almost half the team was non-American and that was a strength, not a weakness. We don't know what happened at the IEBC yet, and kudos to the people working to get that data available, but the failures here cannot be blamed on 'outsiders'. Some of the commentary is bordering on xenophobic.
As for openness at the code level, that would certainly be awesome. Check out this article ( http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/11/internet-based-and-open-source-how-e...) and connect with the Brazilians and Australians rather than try to create a techno-autarky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky).
Cheers, Adam
+254 712 966 801 https://twitter.com/varud https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Bwana Lawi <mail2lawi@gmail.com> wrote:
Cool, we have made up. Hugs and shoulder pats.
Can we get back to the issue at hand now?
:)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
Then I wish you had said that to begin with sans the knee jerk reaction.
I absolutely agree with you about the opening up of the software, and not just that - the processes and procedures followed by all the people in the chain
On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Bernard Owuor wrote:
Skunks, If I knew that this windows-vs-linux thing was so emotive, I'd have skipped it totally.
It is really obscuring the point I'm trying to make - which is - opening up softwares built in the public interest - not just to strengthen the systems, but also to foster confidence among the varioius stake-holders.
@Steve, you're really in agreement with me. We're all speculating, so treat my "windows 8 server" bashing as just that. Just between you and me, I know that mysql would complain thus in a Linux system if it ran out of disk space - because Linux stores locks on the disk. I didn't know the same happened in windows too. But hey, we're free to speculate in the absence of information.
@Rad, a bad workman 'quarrels' with his tool. Most of those who 'blame' their tools seldom work, thus they don't qualify to be called workmen of any type.... A good workman selects the right tool for the job.
------------------------------ *From:* Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> *To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:14 PM *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems
See? The last bastion of "professionals"
And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows.
Bad craftsmen blame their tools
On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote:
Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical system? SMDH!!!
----
Kind Regards,
Alex Nyalita
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki < patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when you've got all the time in the world; 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no idea) 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error message) 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of possible assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages you've had with different production systems) 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give free advise, we know they're reading this - wait, isn't someone getting paid to do all these??)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com>wrote:
What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, get-your-hands-dirty experience. What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential design flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. Whiteafrican has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting elements. We can use that for starters. http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ ./bernard On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" <techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote:
It's our professional duty and responsibility to question this. In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and inasmuch as we acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it under the carpet and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain irresponsible.
Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, even clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client paying 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who undercut us.
Anyway, back to issue at hand.
@Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a proper voting
@Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the data is already at IEBC servers? What would be the technological reason for the system to stop processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is being done by google from IEBC servers.
So what exactly is failing?
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki < shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Skunks, Pole for the delay in results. These are the kind of things that make people suspicious and not trust local ICT professionals. The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. All they know is that 9b of their money was spent on the systems. The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that they can be managed by a powerful desk top on any relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent submission of results because all that is need is a good queue management algorith. A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from polling stations As have al
_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- *......................................................... No pressure.....No diamonds!!!*
i smell a rat with these system related delays. On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 2:09 PM, dan wanjohi <nadwanjohi@gmail.com> wrote:
The problem was not the amount of disk space available, but how disk provisioning/partitioning was done for the mysql db...this then points to a skills issue, not a resources issue..
#mytwocentsworth.
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Adam Nelson <adam@varud.com> wrote:
I just wanted to respond to many of the issues raised today about the IEBC, the electronic tallying system, and about open access. As one of the few non-Kenyans on the list (2 months in Nairobi, previously NY where I did alot of Python work), maybe I have a unique outsiders point of view.
Of course, this is not my election, but I it is important to the world that Kenya has strong institutions and the duty to create and maintain those institutions lies with everybody.
Hardware is likely not the problem here (disk space comments aside - which are surely do to logical, not physical errors), the problem is multifaceted:
On this list, there is a strong bias towards "Kenyan solutions" or "Kenyanborn". Aside from finding this kind of offensive, it's also just petty and backwards. The reason IEBC exists is not to support the local ICT industry, it's to facilitate a trustworthy platform on which Kenyan elections can take place. In addition, there are hundreds of elections a year around the world and for Kenya to have a one-off system that has never been used elsewhere and will never be used elsewhere is neither efficient nor high quality. Maybe the local word processor and spreadsheet apps should be "Kenyanborn" too?
At my last job in the States, almost half the team was non-American and that was a strength, not a weakness. We don't know what happened at the IEBC yet, and kudos to the people working to get that data available, but the failures here cannot be blamed on 'outsiders'. Some of the commentary is bordering on xenophobic.
As for openness at the code level, that would certainly be awesome. Check out this article ( http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/11/internet-based-and-open-source-how-e...) and connect with the Brazilians and Australians rather than try to create a techno-autarky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky).
Cheers, Adam
+254 712 966 801 https://twitter.com/varud https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Bwana Lawi <mail2lawi@gmail.com> wrote:
Cool, we have made up. Hugs and shoulder pats.
Can we get back to the issue at hand now?
:)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
Then I wish you had said that to begin with sans the knee jerk reaction.
I absolutely agree with you about the opening up of the software, and not just that - the processes and procedures followed by all the people in the chain
On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Bernard Owuor wrote:
Skunks, If I knew that this windows-vs-linux thing was so emotive, I'd have skipped it totally.
It is really obscuring the point I'm trying to make - which is - opening up softwares built in the public interest - not just to strengthen the systems, but also to foster confidence among the varioius stake-holders.
@Steve, you're really in agreement with me. We're all speculating, so treat my "windows 8 server" bashing as just that. Just between you and me, I know that mysql would complain thus in a Linux system if it ran out of disk space - because Linux stores locks on the disk. I didn't know the same happened in windows too. But hey, we're free to speculate in the absence of information.
@Rad, a bad workman 'quarrels' with his tool. Most of those who 'blame' their tools seldom work, thus they don't qualify to be called workmen of any type.... A good workman selects the right tool for the job.
------------------------------ *From:* Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> *To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:14 PM *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems
See? The last bastion of "professionals"
And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows.
Bad craftsmen blame their tools
On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote:
Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical system? SMDH!!!
----
Kind Regards,
Alex Nyalita
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki < patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when you've got all the time in the world; 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no idea) 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error message) 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of possible assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages you've had with different production systems) 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give free advise, we know they're reading this - wait, isn't someone getting paid to do all these??)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com>wrote:
What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, get-your-hands-dirty experience. What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential design flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. Whiteafrican has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting elements. We can use that for starters. http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ ./bernard On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" <techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote:
It's our professional duty and responsibility to question this. In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and inasmuch as we acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it under the carpet and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain irresponsible.
Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, even clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client paying 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who undercut us.
Anyway, back to issue at hand.
@Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a proper voting
@Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the data is already at IEBC servers? What would be the technological reason for the system to stop processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is being done by google from IEBC servers.
So what exactly is failing?
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki < shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Skunks, Pole for the delay in results. These are the kind of things that make people suspicious and not trust local ICT professionals. The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. All they know is that 9b of their money was spent on the systems. The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that they can be managed by a powerful desk top on any relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent submission of results because all that is need is a good queue management algorith. A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from polling stations As have al
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-- *......................................................... No pressure.....No diamonds!!!*
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-- ___________________________ Website: http://www.amalvin.com <http://www.amalvi.com> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/AmalvinMarketingConcepts Twitter: http://twitter.com/AmalvinDesigns Blog: http://www.uza.co.ke/blog
Guys, out of all the well connected peeps on skunkworks, no one knows any of the 58 political party IT experts<http://www.iebc.or.ke/index.php/news-archive/281-february-2013/469-political-party-it-experts-exposed-to-vote-transmission-system>who were briefed on the tech of the PEVT? Lets actively seeks inside information... On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:19 PM, Thomas Odol <thomasodol@gmail.com> wrote:
i smell a rat with these system related delays.
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 2:09 PM, dan wanjohi <nadwanjohi@gmail.com> wrote:
The problem was not the amount of disk space available, but how disk provisioning/partitioning was done for the mysql db...this then points to a skills issue, not a resources issue..
#mytwocentsworth.
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Adam Nelson <adam@varud.com> wrote:
I just wanted to respond to many of the issues raised today about the IEBC, the electronic tallying system, and about open access. As one of the few non-Kenyans on the list (2 months in Nairobi, previously NY where I did alot of Python work), maybe I have a unique outsiders point of view.
Of course, this is not my election, but I it is important to the world that Kenya has strong institutions and the duty to create and maintain those institutions lies with everybody.
Hardware is likely not the problem here (disk space comments aside - which are surely do to logical, not physical errors), the problem is multifaceted:
On this list, there is a strong bias towards "Kenyan solutions" or "Kenyanborn". Aside from finding this kind of offensive, it's also just petty and backwards. The reason IEBC exists is not to support the local ICT industry, it's to facilitate a trustworthy platform on which Kenyan elections can take place. In addition, there are hundreds of elections a year around the world and for Kenya to have a one-off system that has never been used elsewhere and will never be used elsewhere is neither efficient nor high quality. Maybe the local word processor and spreadsheet apps should be "Kenyanborn" too?
At my last job in the States, almost half the team was non-American and that was a strength, not a weakness. We don't know what happened at the IEBC yet, and kudos to the people working to get that data available, but the failures here cannot be blamed on 'outsiders'. Some of the commentary is bordering on xenophobic.
As for openness at the code level, that would certainly be awesome. Check out this article ( http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/11/internet-based-and-open-source-how-e...) and connect with the Brazilians and Australians rather than try to create a techno-autarky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky).
Cheers, Adam
+254 712 966 801 https://twitter.com/varud https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Bwana Lawi <mail2lawi@gmail.com> wrote:
Cool, we have made up. Hugs and shoulder pats.
Can we get back to the issue at hand now?
:)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
Then I wish you had said that to begin with sans the knee jerk reaction.
I absolutely agree with you about the opening up of the software, and not just that - the processes and procedures followed by all the people in the chain
On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Bernard Owuor wrote:
Skunks, If I knew that this windows-vs-linux thing was so emotive, I'd have skipped it totally.
It is really obscuring the point I'm trying to make - which is - opening up softwares built in the public interest - not just to strengthen the systems, but also to foster confidence among the varioius stake-holders.
@Steve, you're really in agreement with me. We're all speculating, so treat my "windows 8 server" bashing as just that. Just between you and me, I know that mysql would complain thus in a Linux system if it ran out of disk space - because Linux stores locks on the disk. I didn't know the same happened in windows too. But hey, we're free to speculate in the absence of information.
@Rad, a bad workman 'quarrels' with his tool. Most of those who 'blame' their tools seldom work, thus they don't qualify to be called workmen of any type.... A good workman selects the right tool for the job.
------------------------------ *From:* Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> *To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:14 PM *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems
See? The last bastion of "professionals"
And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows.
Bad craftsmen blame their tools
On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote:
Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical system? SMDH!!!
----
Kind Regards,
Alex Nyalita
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki < patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when you've got all the time in the world; 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no idea) 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error message) 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of possible assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages you've had with different production systems) 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give free advise, we know they're reading this - wait, isn't someone getting paid to do all these??)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com>wrote:
What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, get-your-hands-dirty experience. What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential design flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. Whiteafrican has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting elements. We can use that for starters. http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ ./bernard On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" <techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote:
It's our professional duty and responsibility to question this. In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and inasmuch as we acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it under the carpet and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain irresponsible.
Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, even clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client paying 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who undercut us.
Anyway, back to issue at hand.
@Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a proper voting
@Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the data is already at IEBC servers? What would be the technological reason for the system to stop processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is being done by google from IEBC servers.
So what exactly is failing?
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki < shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Skunks, Pole for the delay in results. These are the kind of things that make people suspicious and not trust local ICT professionals. The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. All they know is that 9b of their money was spent on the systems. The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that they can be managed by a powerful desk top on any relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent submission of results because all that is need is a good queue management algorith. A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from polling stations As have al
_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
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-- *......................................................... No pressure.....No diamonds!!!*
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-- ___________________________ Website: http://www.amalvin.com <http://www.amalvi.com> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/AmalvinMarketingConcepts Twitter: http://twitter.com/AmalvinDesigns Blog: http://www.uza.co.ke/blog
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-- Regards, Peter Karunyu -------------------
It can be done locally...even though i wouldn't be surprised to hear questions like..."which tribe were the programmers"... "Was there regional balancing" .... which other questions?
@Adam the problem is not that there are foreigners participating but that there was poor implementation and very little visibility of expertise. I could care less who did it if it just works. Business is at a standstill cause of the side effects, that I care about. On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Adam Nelson <adam@varud.com> wrote:
I just wanted to respond to many of the issues raised today about the IEBC, the electronic tallying system, and about open access. As one of the few non-Kenyans on the list (2 months in Nairobi, previously NY where I did alot of Python work), maybe I have a unique outsiders point of view.
Of course, this is not my election, but I it is important to the world that Kenya has strong institutions and the duty to create and maintain those institutions lies with everybody.
Hardware is likely not the problem here (disk space comments aside - which are surely do to logical, not physical errors), the problem is multifaceted:
On this list, there is a strong bias towards "Kenyan solutions" or "Kenyanborn". Aside from finding this kind of offensive, it's also just petty and backwards. The reason IEBC exists is not to support the local ICT industry, it's to facilitate a trustworthy platform on which Kenyan elections can take place. In addition, there are hundreds of elections a year around the world and for Kenya to have a one-off system that has never been used elsewhere and will never be used elsewhere is neither efficient nor high quality. Maybe the local word processor and spreadsheet apps should be "Kenyanborn" too?
At my last job in the States, almost half the team was non-American and that was a strength, not a weakness. We don't know what happened at the IEBC yet, and kudos to the people working to get that data available, but the failures here cannot be blamed on 'outsiders'. Some of the commentary is bordering on xenophobic.
As for openness at the code level, that would certainly be awesome. Check out this article ( http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/11/internet-based-and-open-source-how-e...) and connect with the Brazilians and Australians rather than try to create a techno-autarky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky).
Cheers, Adam
+254 712 966 801 https://twitter.com/varud https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Bwana Lawi <mail2lawi@gmail.com> wrote:
Cool, we have made up. Hugs and shoulder pats.
Can we get back to the issue at hand now?
:)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
Then I wish you had said that to begin with sans the knee jerk reaction.
I absolutely agree with you about the opening up of the software, and not just that - the processes and procedures followed by all the people in the chain
On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Bernard Owuor wrote:
Skunks, If I knew that this windows-vs-linux thing was so emotive, I'd have skipped it totally.
It is really obscuring the point I'm trying to make - which is - opening up softwares built in the public interest - not just to strengthen the systems, but also to foster confidence among the varioius stake-holders.
@Steve, you're really in agreement with me. We're all speculating, so treat my "windows 8 server" bashing as just that. Just between you and me, I know that mysql would complain thus in a Linux system if it ran out of disk space - because Linux stores locks on the disk. I didn't know the same happened in windows too. But hey, we're free to speculate in the absence of information.
@Rad, a bad workman 'quarrels' with his tool. Most of those who 'blame' their tools seldom work, thus they don't qualify to be called workmen of any type.... A good workman selects the right tool for the job.
------------------------------ *From:* Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> *To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:14 PM *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems
See? The last bastion of "professionals"
And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows.
Bad craftsmen blame their tools
On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote:
Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical system? SMDH!!!
----
Kind Regards,
Alex Nyalita
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki < patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when you've got all the time in the world; 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no idea) 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error message) 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of possible assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages you've had with different production systems) 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give free advise, we know they're reading this - wait, isn't someone getting paid to do all these??)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com>wrote:
What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, get-your-hands-dirty experience. What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential design flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. Whiteafrican has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting elements. We can use that for starters. http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ ./bernard On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" <techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote:
It's our professional duty and responsibility to question this. In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and inasmuch as we acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it under the carpet and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain irresponsible.
Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, even clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client paying 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who undercut us.
Anyway, back to issue at hand.
@Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a proper voting
@Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the data is already at IEBC servers? What would be the technological reason for the system to stop processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is being done by google from IEBC servers.
So what exactly is failing?
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki < shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Skunks, Pole for the delay in results. These are the kind of things that make people suspicious and not trust local ICT professionals. The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. All they know is that 9b of their money was spent on the systems. The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that they can be managed by a powerful desk top on any relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent submission of results because all that is need is a good queue management algorith. A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from polling stations As have al
_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
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-- Kore Francis Njenga Running and Walking are only breaths apart.
Hi Adam, That was a breath of fresh air indeed. Interesting perspective on diversity and inclusion. Adding my 2 cents worth to the tangent you have taken ( a.k.a thread hijack :-) )...I find the clamor for .co.ke domains to be limiting. The Internet makes us equal .co.ke may open doors for me in Kenya or East Africa but close doors in Asia, America etc. I agree we need to be more open. Embracing .com domains is one way to do this. However to put some context to the issue: Superior homegrown solutions have historically been overlooked in favor of average 'made in x' solutions simply because of preconceived notions about local quality and competence hence the clamor by the local techie to promote his own. Sent from my iPad On Mar 6, 2013, at 4:02 PM, Adam Nelson <adam@varud.com> wrote:
I just wanted to respond to many of the issues raised today about the IEBC, the electronic tallying system, and about open access. As one of the few non-Kenyans on the list (2 months in Nairobi, previously NY where I did alot of Python work), maybe I have a unique outsiders point of view.
Of course, this is not my election, but I it is important to the world that Kenya has strong institutions and the duty to create and maintain those institutions lies with everybody.
Hardware is likely not the problem here (disk space comments aside - which are surely do to logical, not physical errors), the problem is multifaceted:
On this list, there is a strong bias towards "Kenyan solutions" or "Kenyanborn". Aside from finding this kind of offensive, it's also just petty and backwards. The reason IEBC exists is not to support the local ICT industry, it's to facilitate a trustworthy platform on which Kenyan elections can take place. In addition, there are hundreds of elections a year around the world and for Kenya to have a one-off system that has never been used elsewhere and will never be used elsewhere is neither efficient nor high quality. Maybe the local word processor and spreadsheet apps should be "Kenyanborn" too?
At my last job in the States, almost half the team was non-American and that was a strength, not a weakness. We don't know what happened at the IEBC yet, and kudos to the people working to get that data available, but the failures here cannot be blamed on 'outsiders'. Some of the commentary is bordering on xenophobic.
As for openness at the code level, that would certainly be awesome. Check out this article (http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/11/internet-based-and-open-source-how-e...) and connect with the Brazilians and Australians rather than try to create a techno-autarky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky).
Cheers, Adam
+254 712 966 801 https://twitter.com/varud https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Bwana Lawi <mail2lawi@gmail.com> wrote:
Cool, we have made up. Hugs and shoulder pats.
Can we get back to the issue at hand now?
:)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
Then I wish you had said that to begin with sans the knee jerk reaction.
I absolutely agree with you about the opening up of the software, and not just that - the processes and procedures followed by all the people in the chain
On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Bernard Owuor wrote:
Skunks, If I knew that this windows-vs-linux thing was so emotive, I'd have skipped it totally.
It is really obscuring the point I'm trying to make - which is - opening up softwares built in the public interest - not just to strengthen the systems, but also to foster confidence among the varioius stake-holders.
@Steve, you're really in agreement with me. We're all speculating, so treat my "windows 8 server" bashing as just that. Just between you and me, I know that mysql would complain thus in a Linux system if it ran out of disk space - because Linux stores locks on the disk. I didn't know the same happened in windows too. But hey, we're free to speculate in the absence of information.
@Rad, a bad workman 'quarrels' with his tool. Most of those who 'blame' their tools seldom work, thus they don't qualify to be called workmen of any type.... A good workman selects the right tool for the job.
From: Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems
See? The last bastion of "professionals"
And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows.
Bad craftsmen blame their tools
On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote: Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical system? SMDH!!!
----
Kind Regards,
Alex Nyalita
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki <patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote: Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when you've got all the time in the world; 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no idea) 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error message) 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of possible assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages you've had with different production systems) 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give free advise, we know they're reading this - wait, isn't someone getting paid to do all these??)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote: What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, get-your-hands-dirty experience. What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential design flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. Whiteafrican has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting elements. We can use that for starters. http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ ./bernard On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" <techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote: It's our professional duty and responsibility to question this. In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and inasmuch as we acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it under the carpet and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain irresponsible.
Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, even clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client paying 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who undercut us.
Anyway, back to issue at hand.
@Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a proper voting
@Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the data is already at IEBC servers? What would be the technological reason for the system to stop processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is being done by google from IEBC servers.
So what exactly is failing?
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki <shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote: Dear Skunks, Pole for the delay in results. These are the kind of things that make people suspicious and not trust local ICT professionals. The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. All they know is that 9b of their money was spent on the systems. The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that they can be managed by a powerful desk top on any relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent submission of results because all that is need is a good queue management algorith. A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from polling stations As have al
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Interconnected network elements: https://twitter.com/kisstvnews/status/309372137368608768 ./bernard On Mar 6, 2013 9:52 PM, "John Doe" <fivepings@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Adam,
That was a breath of fresh air indeed. Interesting perspective on diversity and inclusion.
Adding my 2 cents worth to the tangent you have taken ( a.k.a thread hijack :-) )...I find the clamor for .co.ke domains to be limiting. The Internet makes us equal .co.ke may open doors for me in Kenya or East Africa but close doors in Asia, America etc. I agree we need to be more open. Embracing .com domains is one way to do this.
However to put some context to the issue: Superior homegrown solutions have historically been overlooked in favor of average 'made in x' solutions simply because of preconceived notions about local quality and competence hence the clamor by the local techie to promote his own. Sent from my iPad
On Mar 6, 2013, at 4:02 PM, Adam Nelson <adam@varud.com> wrote:
I just wanted to respond to many of the issues raised today about the IEBC, the electronic tallying system, and about open access. As one of the few non-Kenyans on the list (2 months in Nairobi, previously NY where I did alot of Python work), maybe I have a unique outsiders point of view.
Of course, this is not my election, but I it is important to the world that Kenya has strong institutions and the duty to create and maintain those institutions lies with everybody.
Hardware is likely not the problem here (disk space comments aside - which are surely do to logical, not physical errors), the problem is multifaceted:
On this list, there is a strong bias towards "Kenyan solutions" or "Kenyanborn". Aside from finding this kind of offensive, it's also just petty and backwards. The reason IEBC exists is not to support the local ICT industry, it's to facilitate a trustworthy platform on which Kenyan elections can take place. In addition, there are hundreds of elections a year around the world and for Kenya to have a one-off system that has never been used elsewhere and will never be used elsewhere is neither efficient nor high quality. Maybe the local word processor and spreadsheet apps should be "Kenyanborn" too?
At my last job in the States, almost half the team was non-American and that was a strength, not a weakness. We don't know what happened at the IEBC yet, and kudos to the people working to get that data available, but the failures here cannot be blamed on 'outsiders'. Some of the commentary is bordering on xenophobic.
As for openness at the code level, that would certainly be awesome. Check out this article ( http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/11/internet-based-and-open-source-how-e...) and connect with the Brazilians and Australians rather than try to create a techno-autarky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky).
Cheers, Adam
+254 712 966 801 https://twitter.com/varud https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Bwana Lawi <mail2lawi@gmail.com> wrote:
Cool, we have made up. Hugs and shoulder pats.
Can we get back to the issue at hand now?
:)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
Then I wish you had said that to begin with sans the knee jerk reaction.
I absolutely agree with you about the opening up of the software, and not just that - the processes and procedures followed by all the people in the chain
On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Bernard Owuor wrote:
Skunks, If I knew that this windows-vs-linux thing was so emotive, I'd have skipped it totally.
It is really obscuring the point I'm trying to make - which is - opening up softwares built in the public interest - not just to strengthen the systems, but also to foster confidence among the varioius stake-holders.
@Steve, you're really in agreement with me. We're all speculating, so treat my "windows 8 server" bashing as just that. Just between you and me, I know that mysql would complain thus in a Linux system if it ran out of disk space - because Linux stores locks on the disk. I didn't know the same happened in windows too. But hey, we're free to speculate in the absence of information.
@Rad, a bad workman 'quarrels' with his tool. Most of those who 'blame' their tools seldom work, thus they don't qualify to be called workmen of any type.... A good workman selects the right tool for the job.
------------------------------ *From:* Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> *To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:14 PM *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems
See? The last bastion of "professionals"
And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows.
Bad craftsmen blame their tools
On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote:
Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical system? SMDH!!!
----
Kind Regards,
Alex Nyalita
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki < patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when you've got all the time in the world; 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no idea) 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error message) 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of possible assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages you've had with different production systems) 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give free advise, we know they're reading this - wait, isn't someone getting paid to do all these??)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com>wrote:
What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, get-your-hands-dirty experience. What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential design flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. Whiteafrican has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting elements. We can use that for starters. http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ ./bernard On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" <techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote:
It's our professional duty and responsibility to question this. In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and inasmuch as we acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it under the carpet and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain irresponsible.
Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, even clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client paying 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who undercut us.
Anyway, back to issue at hand.
@Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a proper voting
@Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the data is already at IEBC servers? What would be the technological reason for the system to stop processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is being done by google from IEBC servers.
So what exactly is failing?
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki < shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Skunks, Pole for the delay in results. These are the kind of things that make people suspicious and not trust local ICT professionals. The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. All they know is that 9b of their money was spent on the systems. The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that they can be managed by a powerful desk top on any relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent submission of results because all that is need is a good queue management algorith. A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from polling stations As have al
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This is how the whole thing works at the electral body There are 9 premises in the whole interconnection 1. Bomas (Tallying Center) 2. HQ(Anniversary Towers) 3. Safaricom & Airtel 4. 47 Counties 5. 291 Constituencies(including Diaspora) 6. Streams(Each Polling station had streams, actual voting points) 7. DR site 8. Internet 9. IEBC Website The HQ, BOMAS, Safaricom & Airtel are connected through P2P links of over 10MB. Internet is provided by AccessKenya through fiber link provided by JTL. AK also has a redundant link through a Radio The Streams are connected to the HQ via Safaricom & Airtel Cloud through a VPN(APN). At each stream is a Nokia Symbian Run Phone with a Java Application that transmits the poll results. The poll results are multicast to Bomas, HQ, Constituency & County. At Each constituency & county is a laptop running the Result system and a MYSQL DB. The same thing that runs at BOMAS. The intention was to have the results at all those locations at the same time. BOMAS has a server running the application & DB and so is the HQ & the DR site which replicates the data. The API is provided through the internet with google providing the GIS/Mapping The IEBC website is hosted by Safaricom cloud and is supposedly on a clustered DB Now there are rumors on whether the system was hacked on poorly coded. I cant say for sure but the biggest challenge for IEBC has been in distribution of phones, simcards and configurations of the phones. The main challenge for the system were logistical issues rather than technical. Technical challenges revolve around lack of proper testing which again is brought about by logistical issues(Imagine a mock transmission for 33000 units and yet the phones & simcards are still in the warehouses or unprocured!). The other technical issue revolved around compilation of the register(Data). to be cont..... On 6 March 2013 21:54, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote:
Interconnected network elements:
https://twitter.com/kisstvnews/status/309372137368608768
./bernard On Mar 6, 2013 9:52 PM, "John Doe" <fivepings@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Adam,
That was a breath of fresh air indeed. Interesting perspective on diversity and inclusion.
Adding my 2 cents worth to the tangent you have taken ( a.k.a thread hijack :-) )...I find the clamor for .co.ke domains to be limiting. The Internet makes us equal .co.ke may open doors for me in Kenya or East Africa but close doors in Asia, America etc. I agree we need to be more open. Embracing .com domains is one way to do this.
However to put some context to the issue: Superior homegrown solutions have historically been overlooked in favor of average 'made in x' solutions simply because of preconceived notions about local quality and competence hence the clamor by the local techie to promote his own. Sent from my iPad
On Mar 6, 2013, at 4:02 PM, Adam Nelson <adam@varud.com> wrote:
I just wanted to respond to many of the issues raised today about the IEBC, the electronic tallying system, and about open access. As one of the few non-Kenyans on the list (2 months in Nairobi, previously NY where I did alot of Python work), maybe I have a unique outsiders point of view.
Of course, this is not my election, but I it is important to the world that Kenya has strong institutions and the duty to create and maintain those institutions lies with everybody.
Hardware is likely not the problem here (disk space comments aside - which are surely do to logical, not physical errors), the problem is multifaceted:
On this list, there is a strong bias towards "Kenyan solutions" or "Kenyanborn". Aside from finding this kind of offensive, it's also just petty and backwards. The reason IEBC exists is not to support the local ICT industry, it's to facilitate a trustworthy platform on which Kenyan elections can take place. In addition, there are hundreds of elections a year around the world and for Kenya to have a one-off system that has never been used elsewhere and will never be used elsewhere is neither efficient nor high quality. Maybe the local word processor and spreadsheet apps should be "Kenyanborn" too?
At my last job in the States, almost half the team was non-American and that was a strength, not a weakness. We don't know what happened at the IEBC yet, and kudos to the people working to get that data available, but the failures here cannot be blamed on 'outsiders'. Some of the commentary is bordering on xenophobic.
As for openness at the code level, that would certainly be awesome. Check out this article ( http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/11/internet-based-and-open-source-how-e...) and connect with the Brazilians and Australians rather than try to create a techno-autarky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky).
Cheers, Adam
+254 712 966 801 https://twitter.com/varud https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Bwana Lawi <mail2lawi@gmail.com> wrote:
Cool, we have made up. Hugs and shoulder pats.
Can we get back to the issue at hand now?
:)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
Then I wish you had said that to begin with sans the knee jerk reaction.
I absolutely agree with you about the opening up of the software, and not just that - the processes and procedures followed by all the people in the chain
On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Bernard Owuor wrote:
Skunks, If I knew that this windows-vs-linux thing was so emotive, I'd have skipped it totally.
It is really obscuring the point I'm trying to make - which is - opening up softwares built in the public interest - not just to strengthen the systems, but also to foster confidence among the varioius stake-holders.
@Steve, you're really in agreement with me. We're all speculating, so treat my "windows 8 server" bashing as just that. Just between you and me, I know that mysql would complain thus in a Linux system if it ran out of disk space - because Linux stores locks on the disk. I didn't know the same happened in windows too. But hey, we're free to speculate in the absence of information.
@Rad, a bad workman 'quarrels' with his tool. Most of those who 'blame' their tools seldom work, thus they don't qualify to be called workmen of any type.... A good workman selects the right tool for the job.
------------------------------ *From:* Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> *To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:14 PM *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems
See? The last bastion of "professionals"
And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows.
Bad craftsmen blame their tools
On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote:
Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical system? SMDH!!!
----
Kind Regards,
Alex Nyalita
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki < patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when you've got all the time in the world; 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no idea) 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error message) 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of possible assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages you've had with different production systems) 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give free advise, we know they're reading this - wait, isn't someone getting paid to do all these??)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com>wrote:
What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, get-your-hands-dirty experience. What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential design flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. Whiteafrican has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting elements. We can use that for starters. http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ ./bernard On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" <techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote:
It's our professional duty and responsibility to question this. In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and inasmuch as we acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it under the carpet and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain irresponsible.
Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, even clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client paying 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who undercut us.
Anyway, back to issue at hand.
@Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a proper voting
@Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the data is already at IEBC servers? What would be the technological reason for the system to stop processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is being done by google from IEBC servers.
So what exactly is failing?
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki < shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Skunks, Pole for the delay in results. These are the kind of things that make people suspicious and not trust local ICT professionals. The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. All they know is that 9b of their money was spent on the systems. The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that they can be managed by a powerful desk top on any relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent submission of results because all that is need is a good queue management algorith. A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from polling stations As have al
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Thank you for this. A few clarifications 1. Did Airtel have a similat setup as Safaricom? There's no mention of their role anywhere. 2. Wasn't Google hosting the website? Safaricom have been categorical on their role as depicted in green here https://twitter.com/kisstvnews/status/309372137368608768 3. Wasn't Safaricom providing the microwave link as primary as shown here https://twitter.com/kisstvnews/status/309372137368608768 4. What were the end points of the AK radio link? 5. How was the db replication designed? Online or offline? 6. In testing the system, aren't simulation tools available that could simulate load tests rather than a mock tests with 30k devices? ./bernard On Mar 6, 2013 10:33 PM, "J.M" <msapereh@gmail.com> wrote:
This is how the whole thing works at the electral body
There are 9 premises in the whole interconnection
1. Bomas (Tallying Center) 2. HQ(Anniversary Towers) 3. Safaricom & Airtel 4. 47 Counties 5. 291 Constituencies(including Diaspora) 6. Streams(Each Polling station had streams, actual voting points) 7. DR site 8. Internet 9. IEBC Website
The HQ, BOMAS, Safaricom & Airtel are connected through P2P links of over 10MB. Internet is provided by AccessKenya through fiber link provided by JTL. AK also has a redundant link through a Radio
The Streams are connected to the HQ via Safaricom & Airtel Cloud through a VPN(APN). At each stream is a Nokia Symbian Run Phone with a Java Application that transmits the poll results. The poll results are multicast to Bomas, HQ, Constituency & County. At Each constituency & county is a laptop running the Result system and a MYSQL DB. The same thing that runs at BOMAS. The intention was to have the results at all those locations at the same time.
BOMAS has a server running the application & DB and so is the HQ & the DR site which replicates the data. The API is provided through the internet with google providing the GIS/Mapping
The IEBC website is hosted by Safaricom cloud and is supposedly on a clustered DB
Now there are rumors on whether the system was hacked on poorly coded. I cant say for sure but the biggest challenge for IEBC has been in distribution of phones, simcards and configurations of the phones. The main challenge for the system were logistical issues rather than technical.
Technical challenges revolve around lack of proper testing which again is brought about by logistical issues(Imagine a mock transmission for 33000 units and yet the phones & simcards are still in the warehouses or unprocured!). The other technical issue revolved around compilation of the register(Data).
to be cont.....
On 6 March 2013 21:54, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote:
Interconnected network elements:
https://twitter.com/kisstvnews/status/309372137368608768
./bernard On Mar 6, 2013 9:52 PM, "John Doe" <fivepings@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Adam,
That was a breath of fresh air indeed. Interesting perspective on diversity and inclusion.
Adding my 2 cents worth to the tangent you have taken ( a.k.a thread hijack :-) )...I find the clamor for .co.ke domains to be limiting. The Internet makes us equal .co.ke may open doors for me in Kenya or East Africa but close doors in Asia, America etc. I agree we need to be more open. Embracing .com domains is one way to do this.
However to put some context to the issue: Superior homegrown solutions have historically been overlooked in favor of average 'made in x' solutions simply because of preconceived notions about local quality and competence hence the clamor by the local techie to promote his own. Sent from my iPad
On Mar 6, 2013, at 4:02 PM, Adam Nelson <adam@varud.com> wrote:
I just wanted to respond to many of the issues raised today about the IEBC, the electronic tallying system, and about open access. As one of the few non-Kenyans on the list (2 months in Nairobi, previously NY where I did alot of Python work), maybe I have a unique outsiders point of view.
Of course, this is not my election, but I it is important to the world that Kenya has strong institutions and the duty to create and maintain those institutions lies with everybody.
Hardware is likely not the problem here (disk space comments aside - which are surely do to logical, not physical errors), the problem is multifaceted:
On this list, there is a strong bias towards "Kenyan solutions" or "Kenyanborn". Aside from finding this kind of offensive, it's also just petty and backwards. The reason IEBC exists is not to support the local ICT industry, it's to facilitate a trustworthy platform on which Kenyan elections can take place. In addition, there are hundreds of elections a year around the world and for Kenya to have a one-off system that has never been used elsewhere and will never be used elsewhere is neither efficient nor high quality. Maybe the local word processor and spreadsheet apps should be "Kenyanborn" too?
At my last job in the States, almost half the team was non-American and that was a strength, not a weakness. We don't know what happened at the IEBC yet, and kudos to the people working to get that data available, but the failures here cannot be blamed on 'outsiders'. Some of the commentary is bordering on xenophobic.
As for openness at the code level, that would certainly be awesome. Check out this article ( http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/11/internet-based-and-open-source-how-e...) and connect with the Brazilians and Australians rather than try to create a techno-autarky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky).
Cheers, Adam
+254 712 966 801 https://twitter.com/varud https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Bwana Lawi <mail2lawi@gmail.com> wrote:
Cool, we have made up. Hugs and shoulder pats.
Can we get back to the issue at hand now?
:)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
Then I wish you had said that to begin with sans the knee jerk reaction.
I absolutely agree with you about the opening up of the software, and not just that - the processes and procedures followed by all the people in the chain
On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Bernard Owuor wrote:
Skunks, If I knew that this windows-vs-linux thing was so emotive, I'd have skipped it totally.
It is really obscuring the point I'm trying to make - which is - opening up softwares built in the public interest - not just to strengthen the systems, but also to foster confidence among the varioius stake-holders.
@Steve, you're really in agreement with me. We're all speculating, so treat my "windows 8 server" bashing as just that. Just between you and me, I know that mysql would complain thus in a Linux system if it ran out of disk space - because Linux stores locks on the disk. I didn't know the same happened in windows too. But hey, we're free to speculate in the absence of information.
@Rad, a bad workman 'quarrels' with his tool. Most of those who 'blame' their tools seldom work, thus they don't qualify to be called workmen of any type.... A good workman selects the right tool for the job.
------------------------------ *From:* Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> *To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:14 PM *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems
See? The last bastion of "professionals"
And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows.
Bad craftsmen blame their tools
On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote:
Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical system? SMDH!!!
----
Kind Regards,
Alex Nyalita
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki < patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when you've got all the time in the world; 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no idea) 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error message) 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of possible assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages you've had with different production systems) 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give free advise, we know they're reading this - wait, isn't someone getting paid to do all these??)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com>wrote:
What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, get-your-hands-dirty experience. What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential design flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. Whiteafrican has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting elements. We can use that for starters. http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ ./bernard On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" <techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote:
It's our professional duty and responsibility to question this. In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and inasmuch as we acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it under the carpet and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain irresponsible.
Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, even clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client paying 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who undercut us.
Anyway, back to issue at hand.
@Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a proper voting
@Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the data is already at IEBC servers? What would be the technological reason for the system to stop processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is being done by google from IEBC servers.
So what exactly is failing?
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki < shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Skunks, Pole for the delay in results. These are the kind of things that make people suspicious and not trust local ICT professionals. The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. All they know is that 9b of their money was spent on the systems. The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that they can be managed by a powerful desk top on any relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent submission of results because all that is need is a good queue management algorith. A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from polling stations As have al
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Let me cut the chase here. We have little information on the system. This was so in design to keep its integrity which has actually flopped. Let's stop speculating what it could have been, what happened et all, et all. I would suggest that as IT professionals we compile a list of questions both technical and logical which IEBC should answer. After IEBC is done with all its core mandate as they are doing, we then ask for the answers to those questions. Its a shame that the same year we launch ICT city (Konza) and claim we intend to develop and export technologies. We get such a failure from an IT front. Its a big shame to IT professional in a big scale. We have multinationals trying to pitch tent here how can they do so if we can't manage such a small system. Even a supper market system is more complex and busy than that system We need and deserve answers from IEBC. Best Regards, Dickson. ---- http://qhim.wordpress.com Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> Sender: skunkworks-bounces@lists.my.co.ke Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 22:49:34 To: Skunkworks Mailing List<skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Reply-To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://orion.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
As much as it may have been a technical issue, i wud be more inclined to think of it a political issue...like a case of dark forces infiltrating the commission's officers.. *cough* Remember the system had worked before and it cud hav only been better! D On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 11:01 PM, Dickson <dhikims@gmail.com> wrote:
Let me cut the chase here. We have little information on the system. This was so in design to keep its integrity which has actually flopped. Let's stop speculating what it could have been, what happened et all, et all.
I would suggest that as IT professionals we compile a list of questions both technical and logical which IEBC should answer.
After IEBC is done with all its core mandate as they are doing, we then ask for the answers to those questions.
Its a shame that the same year we launch ICT city (Konza) and claim we intend to develop and export technologies. We get such a failure from an IT front. Its a big shame to IT professional in a big scale. We have multinationals trying to pitch tent here how can they do so if we can't manage such a small system. Even a supper market system is more complex and busy than that system
We need and deserve answers from IEBC. Best Regards,
Dickson.
---- http://qhim.wordpress.com
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> Sender: skunkworks-bounces@lists.my.co.ke Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 22:49:34 To: Skunkworks Mailing List<skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Reply-To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems
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Dear Good People IEBC is currently doing an excellent job. However, failure by the automated system is an opportunity for all of us to learn that automating a process requires another comprehensive process(both technical and management process). I strongly believe that the Communications Department was not well prepared, because we did not hear of any Business Continuity Plan (BCP), Security Management Plan, DRP (Disaster Recovery Plan) put in place. This should have been the case as part of DRP: 1. That the IEBC should have had, hot site and cold site. 2. The server should have been able to do mirroring and periodic back up at the same time to cater for data recovery for any scenario. 3. The data should have under gone buffering period to allow the Quality Assurance Team to do data screening on 'read only basis'. 4. The system should been taken for end-to-end test for a period of 1 week. 5. Risk management process should have been established and maintained independently. With above, switching from auto to manual would have been seamless and effective. Regards Isaac Kiplagat, CISA Software Quality Assurance Expert, On 7 March 2013 10:48, daniel gitau <danmac.daniel@gmail.com> wrote:
As much as it may have been a technical issue, i wud be more inclined to think of it a political issue...like a case of dark forces infiltrating the commission's officers.. *cough* Remember the system had worked before and it cud hav only been better!
D
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 11:01 PM, Dickson <dhikims@gmail.com> wrote:
Let me cut the chase here. We have little information on the system. This was so in design to keep its integrity which has actually flopped. Let's stop speculating what it could have been, what happened et all, et all.
I would suggest that as IT professionals we compile a list of questions both technical and logical which IEBC should answer.
After IEBC is done with all its core mandate as they are doing, we then ask for the answers to those questions.
Its a shame that the same year we launch ICT city (Konza) and claim we intend to develop and export technologies. We get such a failure from an IT front. Its a big shame to IT professional in a big scale. We have multinationals trying to pitch tent here how can they do so if we can't manage such a small system. Even a supper market system is more complex and busy than that system
We need and deserve answers from IEBC. Best Regards,
Dickson.
---- http://qhim.wordpress.com
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> Sender: skunkworks-bounces@lists.my.co.ke Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 22:49:34 To: Skunkworks Mailing List<skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Reply-To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems
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-- Isaac Kiplagat. KIP®
hey Skunks! Seems we are now starting to get some of what happened behind the scenes. Late changes in poll plans 'led to the delay in results' <http://www.nation.co.ke/News/politics/Late-changes-in-poll-plans-led-to-the-delay-in-results/-/1064/1713612/-/forwq1/-/index.html> cheers, Stephen. On 03/07/2013 10:56 AM, Isaac Kiplagat wrote:
Dear Good People IEBC is currently doing an excellent job.
However, failure by the automated system is an opportunity for all of us to learn that automating a process requires another comprehensive process(both technical and management process). I strongly believe that the Communications Department was not well prepared, because we did not hear of any Business Continuity Plan (BCP), Security Management Plan, DRP (Disaster Recovery Plan) put in place.
This should have been the case as part of DRP:
1. That the IEBC should have had, hot site and cold site. 2. The server should have been able to do mirroring and periodic back up at the same time to cater for data recovery for any scenario. 3. The data should have under gone buffering period to allow the Quality Assurance Team to do data screening on 'read only basis'. 4. The system should been taken for end-to-end test for a period of 1 week. 5. Risk management process should have been established and maintained independently.
With above, switching from auto to manual would have been seamless and effective.
Regards Isaac Kiplagat, CISA Software Quality Assurance Expert,
On 7 March 2013 10:48, daniel gitau <danmac.daniel@gmail.com <mailto:danmac.daniel@gmail.com>> wrote:
As much as it may have been a technical issue, i wud be more inclined to think of it a political issue...like a case of dark forces infiltrating the commission's officers.. *cough* Remember the system had worked before and it cud hav only been better!
D
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 11:01 PM, Dickson <dhikims@gmail.com <mailto:dhikims@gmail.com>> wrote:
Let me cut the chase here. We have little information on the system. This was so in design to keep its integrity which has actually flopped. Let's stop speculating what it could have been, what happened et all, et all.
I would suggest that as IT professionals we compile a list of questions both technical and logical which IEBC should answer.
After IEBC is done with all its core mandate as they are doing, we then ask for the answers to those questions.
Its a shame that the same year we launch ICT city (Konza) and claim we intend to develop and export technologies. We get such a failure from an IT front. Its a big shame to IT professional in a big scale. We have multinationals trying to pitch tent here how can they do so if we can't manage such a small system. Even a supper market system is more complex and busy than that system
We need and deserve answers from IEBC. Best Regards,
Dickson.
---- http://qhim.wordpress.com
Sent from my BlackBerry�
-----Original Message----- From: Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com <mailto:bmwagiru@gmail.com>> Sender: skunkworks-bounces@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks-bounces@lists.my.co.ke> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 22:49:34 To: Skunkworks Mailing List<skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke>> Reply-To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke>> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems
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-- Isaac Kiplagat. KIP�
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Technical challenges revolve around lack of proper testing which again is brought about by logistical issues(Imagine a mock transmission for 33000 units and yet the phones & simcards are still in the warehouses or unprocured!). The other technical issue revolved around compilation of the register(Data).
to be cont.....
It does seem this particular fiasco could have been avoided by (1) clearly organising the functional components of the system so there's clear responsibility and accountability (at organisation level) for all aspects of data collection and transmission and (2) imposing stiff contractual penalties on non-performant organisations, defined via SLAs or similar. There's nothing quite as effective as losing revenue that gets commercial organisations moving when things break.
Hi Nelson, Thank you for your comments, they are all very sound. I just need to put something small into context: On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Adam Nelson <adam@varud.com> wrote:
I just wanted to respond to many of the issues raised today about the IEBC, the electronic tallying system, and about open access. As one of the few non-Kenyans on the list (2 months in Nairobi, previously NY where I did alot of Python work), maybe I have a unique outsiders point of view.
Of course, this is not my election, but I it is important to the world that Kenya has strong institutions and the duty to create and maintain those institutions lies with everybody.
Hardware is likely not the problem here (disk space comments aside - which are surely do to logical, not physical errors), the problem is multifaceted:
On this list, there is a strong bias towards "Kenyan solutions" or "Kenyanborn". Aside from finding this kind of offensive, it's also just petty and backwards. The reason IEBC exists is not to support the local ICT industry, it's to facilitate a trustworthy platform on which Kenyan elections can take place. In addition, there are hundreds of elections a year around the world and for Kenya to have a one-off system that has never been used elsewhere and will never be used elsewhere is neither efficient nor high quality. Maybe the local word processor and spreadsheet apps should be "Kenyanborn" too?
The general bias towards Kenyan solutions here stems from the fact that most procurements of I.T solutions, for both hardware and software by public institutions in Kenya, is tilted in favour of foreign vending companies. An assumption made is that the imported systems are of higher quality since they were "done abroad" even though this is not always the case. The issue is that some of the systems end up being done largely by locals. The multi-nationals simply hire Kenyan developers less expensively to do the job right after being awarded the contract but maintain the figures invoiced earlier. In the end they cost a lot of money, for instance the IEBC system that attracted an invoice upwards of 100 million U.S.D. This is not too good especially to our economy's balance of payments. What people are saying is that we can at least do half-a-decent job, that is all. Martin. -- .... And now for something completely different: ``A radioactive cat has 18 half-lives.'' [ PyPy ]
At my last job in the States, almost half the team was non-American and that was a strength, not a weakness. We don't know what happened at the IEBC yet, and kudos to the people working to get that data available, but the failures here cannot be blamed on 'outsiders'. Some of the commentary is bordering on xenophobic.
As for openness at the code level, that would certainly be awesome. Check out this article ( http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/11/internet-based-and-open-source-how-e...) and connect with the Brazilians and Australians rather than try to create a techno-autarky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky).
Cheers, Adam
+254 712 966 801 https://twitter.com/varud https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Bwana Lawi <mail2lawi@gmail.com> wrote:
Cool, we have made up. Hugs and shoulder pats.
Can we get back to the issue at hand now?
:)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
Then I wish you had said that to begin with sans the knee jerk reaction.
I absolutely agree with you about the opening up of the software, and not just that - the processes and procedures followed by all the people in the chain
On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Bernard Owuor wrote:
Skunks, If I knew that this windows-vs-linux thing was so emotive, I'd have skipped it totally.
It is really obscuring the point I'm trying to make - which is - opening up softwares built in the public interest - not just to strengthen the systems, but also to foster confidence among the varioius stake-holders.
@Steve, you're really in agreement with me. We're all speculating, so treat my "windows 8 server" bashing as just that. Just between you and me, I know that mysql would complain thus in a Linux system if it ran out of disk space - because Linux stores locks on the disk. I didn't know the same happened in windows too. But hey, we're free to speculate in the absence of information.
@Rad, a bad workman 'quarrels' with his tool. Most of those who 'blame' their tools seldom work, thus they don't qualify to be called workmen of any type.... A good workman selects the right tool for the job.
------------------------------ *From:* Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> *To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:14 PM *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems
See? The last bastion of "professionals"
And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows.
Bad craftsmen blame their tools
On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote:
Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical system? SMDH!!!
----
Kind Regards,
Alex Nyalita
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki < patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when you've got all the time in the world; 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no idea) 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error message) 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of possible assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages you've had with different production systems) 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give free advise, we know they're reading this - wait, isn't someone getting paid to do all these??)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com>wrote:
What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, get-your-hands-dirty experience. What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential design flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. Whiteafrican has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting elements. We can use that for starters. http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ ./bernard On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" <techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote:
It's our professional duty and responsibility to question this. In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and inasmuch as we acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it under the carpet and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain irresponsible.
Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, even clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client paying 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who undercut us.
Anyway, back to issue at hand.
@Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a proper voting
@Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the data is already at IEBC servers? What would be the technological reason for the system to stop processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is being done by google from IEBC servers.
So what exactly is failing?
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki < shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Skunks, Pole for the delay in results. These are the kind of things that make people suspicious and not trust local ICT professionals. The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. All they know is that 9b of their money was spent on the systems. The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that they can be managed by a powerful desk top on any relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent submission of results because all that is need is a good queue management algorith. A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from polling stations As have al
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word round is that the system was hacked http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/kenyan-election-2013/evans-ondieki-iebc-all... Anyone who can shed more light on this? On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 8:45 AM, Martin Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com>wrote:
Hi Nelson,
Thank you for your comments, they are all very sound. I just need to put something small into context:
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Adam Nelson <adam@varud.com> wrote:
I just wanted to respond to many of the issues raised today about the IEBC, the electronic tallying system, and about open access. As one of the few non-Kenyans on the list (2 months in Nairobi, previously NY where I did alot of Python work), maybe I have a unique outsiders point of view.
Of course, this is not my election, but I it is important to the world that Kenya has strong institutions and the duty to create and maintain those institutions lies with everybody.
Hardware is likely not the problem here (disk space comments aside - which are surely do to logical, not physical errors), the problem is multifaceted:
On this list, there is a strong bias towards "Kenyan solutions" or "Kenyanborn". Aside from finding this kind of offensive, it's also just petty and backwards. The reason IEBC exists is not to support the local ICT industry, it's to facilitate a trustworthy platform on which Kenyan elections can take place. In addition, there are hundreds of elections a year around the world and for Kenya to have a one-off system that has never been used elsewhere and will never be used elsewhere is neither efficient nor high quality. Maybe the local word processor and spreadsheet apps should be "Kenyanborn" too?
The general bias towards Kenyan solutions here stems from the fact that most procurements of I.T solutions, for both hardware and software by public institutions in Kenya, is tilted in favour of foreign vending companies. An assumption made is that the imported systems are of higher quality since they were "done abroad" even though this is not always the case.
The issue is that some of the systems end up being done largely by locals. The multi-nationals simply hire Kenyan developers less expensively to do the job right after being awarded the contract but maintain the figures invoiced earlier. In the end they cost a lot of money, for instance the IEBC system that attracted an invoice upwards of 100 million U.S.D. This is not too good especially to our economy's balance of payments.
What people are saying is that we can at least do half-a-decent job, that is all.
Martin.
-- .... And now for something completely different: ``A radioactive cat has 18 half-lives.'' [ PyPy ]
At my last job in the States, almost half the team was non-American and that was a strength, not a weakness. We don't know what happened at the IEBC yet, and kudos to the people working to get that data available, but the failures here cannot be blamed on 'outsiders'. Some of the commentary is bordering on xenophobic.
As for openness at the code level, that would certainly be awesome. Check out this article ( http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/11/internet-based-and-open-source-how-e...) and connect with the Brazilians and Australians rather than try to create a techno-autarky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky).
Cheers, Adam
+254 712 966 801 https://twitter.com/varud https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Bwana Lawi <mail2lawi@gmail.com> wrote:
Cool, we have made up. Hugs and shoulder pats.
Can we get back to the issue at hand now?
:)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
Then I wish you had said that to begin with sans the knee jerk reaction.
I absolutely agree with you about the opening up of the software, and not just that - the processes and procedures followed by all the people in the chain
On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Bernard Owuor wrote:
Skunks, If I knew that this windows-vs-linux thing was so emotive, I'd have skipped it totally.
It is really obscuring the point I'm trying to make - which is - opening up softwares built in the public interest - not just to strengthen the systems, but also to foster confidence among the varioius stake-holders.
@Steve, you're really in agreement with me. We're all speculating, so treat my "windows 8 server" bashing as just that. Just between you and me, I know that mysql would complain thus in a Linux system if it ran out of disk space - because Linux stores locks on the disk. I didn't know the same happened in windows too. But hey, we're free to speculate in the absence of information.
@Rad, a bad workman 'quarrels' with his tool. Most of those who 'blame' their tools seldom work, thus they don't qualify to be called workmen of any type.... A good workman selects the right tool for the job.
------------------------------ *From:* Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> *To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:14 PM *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems
See? The last bastion of "professionals"
And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows.
Bad craftsmen blame their tools
On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote:
Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical system? SMDH!!!
----
Kind Regards,
Alex Nyalita
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki < patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when you've got all the time in the world; 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no idea) 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error message) 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of possible assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages you've had with different production systems) 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give free advise, we know they're reading this - wait, isn't someone getting paid to do all these??)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com>wrote:
What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, get-your-hands-dirty experience. What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential design flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. Whiteafrican has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting elements. We can use that for starters. http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ ./bernard On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" <techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote:
It's our professional duty and responsibility to question this. In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and inasmuch as we acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it under the carpet and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain irresponsible.
Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, even clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client paying 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who undercut us.
Anyway, back to issue at hand.
@Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a proper voting
@Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the data is already at IEBC servers? What would be the technological reason for the system to stop processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is being done by google from IEBC servers.
So what exactly is failing?
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki < shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Skunks, Pole for the delay in results. These are the kind of things that make people suspicious and not trust local ICT professionals. The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. All they know is that 9b of their money was spent on the systems. The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that they can be managed by a powerful desk top on any relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent submission of results because all that is need is a good queue management algorith. A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from polling stations As have al
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http://intelligencebriefs.com/?p=3413 Not sure how accurate the above is though...I think speculation is too rife for anyone to know the exact truth.. Rgds, Dan O.Kwach. On 3/7/2013 10:18 AM, Bogi Benga wrote:
word round is that the system was hacked
http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/kenyan-election-2013/evans-ondieki-iebc-all...
Anyone who can shed more light on this?
On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 8:45 AM, Martin Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com <mailto:martin.chiteri@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Nelson,
Thank you for your comments, they are all very sound. I just need to put something small into context:
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Adam Nelson <adam@varud.com <mailto:adam@varud.com>> wrote:
I just wanted to respond to many of the issues raised today about the IEBC, the electronic tallying system, and about open access. As one of the few non-Kenyans on the list (2 months in Nairobi, previously NY where I did alot of Python work), maybe I have a unique outsiders point of view.
Of course, this is not my election, but I it is important to the world that Kenya has strong institutions and the duty to create and maintain those institutions lies with everybody.
Hardware is likely not the problem here (disk space comments aside - which are surely do to logical, not physical errors), the problem is multifaceted:
On this list, there is a strong bias towards "Kenyan solutions" or "Kenyanborn". Aside from finding this kind of offensive, it's also just petty and backwards. The reason IEBC exists is not to support the local ICT industry, it's to facilitate a trustworthy platform on which Kenyan elections can take place. In addition, there are hundreds of elections a year around the world and for Kenya to have a one-off system that has never been used elsewhere and will never be used elsewhere is neither efficient nor high quality. Maybe the local word processor and spreadsheet apps should be "Kenyanborn" too?
The general bias towards Kenyan solutions here stems from the fact that most procurements of I.T solutions, for both hardware and software by public institutions in Kenya, is tilted in favour of foreign vending companies. An assumption made is that the imported systems are of higher quality since they were "done abroad" even though this is not always the case.
The issue is that some of the systems end up being done largely by locals. The multi-nationals simply hire Kenyan developers less expensively to do the job right after being awarded the contract but maintain the figures invoiced earlier. In the end they cost a lot of money, for instance the IEBC system that attracted an invoice upwards of 100 million U.S.D. This is not too good especially to our economy's balance of payments.
What people are saying is that we can at least do half-a-decent job, that is all.
Martin.
-- .... And now for something completely different: ``A radioactive cat has 18 half-lives.'' [ PyPy ]
At my last job in the States, almost half the team was non-American and that was a strength, not a weakness. We don't know what happened at the IEBC yet, and kudos to the people working to get that data available, but the failures here cannot be blamed on 'outsiders'. Some of the commentary is bordering on xenophobic.
As for openness at the code level, that would certainly be awesome. Check out this article (http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/11/internet-based-and-open-source-how-e...) and connect with the Brazilians and Australians rather than try to create a techno-autarky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky).
Cheers, Adam
+254 712 966 801 <tel:%2B254%20712%20966%20801> https://twitter.com/varud https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Bwana Lawi <mail2lawi@gmail.com <mailto:mail2lawi@gmail.com>> wrote:
Cool, we have made up. Hugs and shoulder pats.
Can we get back to the issue at hand now?
:)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com <mailto:conradakunga@gmail.com>> wrote:
Then I wish you had said that to begin with sans the knee jerk reaction.
I absolutely agree with you about the opening up of the software, and not just that - the processes and procedures followed by all the people in the chain
On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Bernard Owuor wrote:
Skunks, If I knew that this windows-vs-linux thing was so emotive, I'd have skipped it totally.
It is really obscuring the point I'm trying to make - which is - opening up softwares built in the public interest - not just to strengthen the systems, but also to foster confidence among the varioius stake-holders.
@Steve, you're really in agreement with me. We're all speculating, so treat my "windows 8 server" bashing as just that. Just between you and me, I know that mysql would complain thus in a Linux system if it ran out of disk space - because Linux stores locks on the disk. I didn't know the same happened in windows too. But hey, we're free to speculate in the absence of information.
@Rad, a bad workman 'quarrels' with his tool. Most of those who 'blame' their tools seldom work, thus they don't qualify to be called workmen of any type.... A good workman selects the right tool for the job.
------------------------------------------------------------------------ *From:* Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> *To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:14 PM *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems
See? The last bastion of "professionals"
And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows.
Bad craftsmen blame their tools
On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote:
Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical system? SMDH!!!
----
Kind Regards,
Alex Nyalita
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki <patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when you've got all the time in the world; 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no idea) 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error message) 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of possible assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages you've had with different production systems) 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give free advise, we know they're reading this -wait, isn't someone getting paid to do all these??)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote:
What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, get-your-hands-dirty experience. What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential design flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. Whiteafrican has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting elements. We can use that for starters. http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ ./bernard On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" <techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote:
It's our professional duty and responsibility to question this. In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and inasmuch as we acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it under the carpet and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain irresponsible. Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, even clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client paying 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who undercut us. Anyway, back to issue at hand. @Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a proper voting @Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the data is already at IEBC servers? What would be the technological reason for the system to stop processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is being done by google from IEBC servers. So what exactly is failing?
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki <shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Skunks, Pole for the delay in results. These are the kind of things that make people suspicious and not trust local ICT professionals. The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. All they know is that 9b of their money was spent on the systems. The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that they can be managed by a powerful desk top on any relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent submission of results because all that is need is a good queue management algorith. A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from polling stations As have al
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"The Safaricom Virtual Private Network that runs on Oracle ...." I stopped there...smh. If you're going to speculate, at least use an intelligent guess. ./bernard On Mar 7, 2013 1:39 PM, "Dan Kwach" <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote:
http://intelligencebriefs.com/?p=3413
Not sure how accurate the above is though...I think speculation is too rife for anyone to know the exact truth..
Rgds,
Dan O.Kwach.
On 3/7/2013 10:18 AM, Bogi Benga wrote:
word round is that the system was hacked
http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/kenyan-election-2013/evans-ondieki-iebc-all...
Anyone who can shed more light on this?
On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 8:45 AM, Martin Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com>wrote:
Hi Nelson,
Thank you for your comments, they are all very sound. I just need to put something small into context:
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Adam Nelson <adam@varud.com> wrote:
I just wanted to respond to many of the issues raised today about the IEBC, the electronic tallying system, and about open access. As one of the few non-Kenyans on the list (2 months in Nairobi, previously NY where I did alot of Python work), maybe I have a unique outsiders point of view.
Of course, this is not my election, but I it is important to the world that Kenya has strong institutions and the duty to create and maintain those institutions lies with everybody.
Hardware is likely not the problem here (disk space comments aside - which are surely do to logical, not physical errors), the problem is multifaceted:
On this list, there is a strong bias towards "Kenyan solutions" or "Kenyanborn". Aside from finding this kind of offensive, it's also just petty and backwards. The reason IEBC exists is not to support the local ICT industry, it's to facilitate a trustworthy platform on which Kenyan elections can take place. In addition, there are hundreds of elections a year around the world and for Kenya to have a one-off system that has never been used elsewhere and will never be used elsewhere is neither efficient nor high quality. Maybe the local word processor and spreadsheet apps should be "Kenyanborn" too?
The general bias towards Kenyan solutions here stems from the fact that most procurements of I.T solutions, for both hardware and software by public institutions in Kenya, is tilted in favour of foreign vending companies. An assumption made is that the imported systems are of higher quality since they were "done abroad" even though this is not always the case.
The issue is that some of the systems end up being done largely by locals. The multi-nationals simply hire Kenyan developers less expensively to do the job right after being awarded the contract but maintain the figures invoiced earlier. In the end they cost a lot of money, for instance the IEBC system that attracted an invoice upwards of 100 million U.S.D. This is not too good especially to our economy's balance of payments.
What people are saying is that we can at least do half-a-decent job, that is all.
Martin.
-- .... And now for something completely different: ``A radioactive cat has 18 half-lives.'' [ PyPy ]
At my last job in the States, almost half the team was non-American and that was a strength, not a weakness. We don't know what happened at the IEBC yet, and kudos to the people working to get that data available, but the failures here cannot be blamed on 'outsiders'. Some of the commentary is bordering on xenophobic.
As for openness at the code level, that would certainly be awesome. Check out this article ( http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/11/internet-based-and-open-source-how-e...) and connect with the Brazilians and Australians rather than try to create a techno-autarky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky).
Cheers, Adam
+254 712 966 801 <%2B254%20712%20966%20801> https://twitter.com/varud https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Bwana Lawi <mail2lawi@gmail.com> wrote:
Cool, we have made up. Hugs and shoulder pats.
Can we get back to the issue at hand now?
:)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
Then I wish you had said that to begin with sans the knee jerk reaction.
I absolutely agree with you about the opening up of the software, and not just that - the processes and procedures followed by all the people in the chain
On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Bernard Owuor wrote:
Skunks, If I knew that this windows-vs-linux thing was so emotive, I'd have skipped it totally.
It is really obscuring the point I'm trying to make - which is - opening up softwares built in the public interest - not just to strengthen the systems, but also to foster confidence among the varioius stake-holders.
@Steve, you're really in agreement with me. We're all speculating, so treat my "windows 8 server" bashing as just that. Just between you and me, I know that mysql would complain thus in a Linux system if it ran out of disk space - because Linux stores locks on the disk. I didn't know the same happened in windows too. But hey, we're free to speculate in the absence of information.
@Rad, a bad workman 'quarrels' with his tool. Most of those who 'blame' their tools seldom work, thus they don't qualify to be called workmen of any type.... A good workman selects the right tool for the job.
------------------------------ *From:* Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> *To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:14 PM *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems
See? The last bastion of "professionals"
And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows.
Bad craftsmen blame their tools
On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote:
Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical system? SMDH!!!
----
Kind Regards,
Alex Nyalita
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki < patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when you've got all the time in the world; 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no idea) 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error message) 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of possible assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages you've had with different production systems) 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give free advise, we know they're reading this - wait, isn't someone getting paid to do all these??)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com>wrote:
What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, get-your-hands-dirty experience. What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential design flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. Whiteafrican has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting elements. We can use that for starters. http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ ./bernard On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" <techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote:
It's our professional duty and responsibility to question this. In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and inasmuch as we acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it under the carpet and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain irresponsible.
Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, even clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client paying 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who undercut us.
Anyway, back to issue at hand.
@Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a proper voting
@Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the data is already at IEBC servers? What would be the technological reason for the system to stop processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is being done by google from IEBC servers.
So what exactly is failing?
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki < shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Skunks, Pole for the delay in results. These are the kind of things that make people suspicious and not trust local ICT professionals. The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. All they know is that 9b of their money was spent on the systems. The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that they can be managed by a powerful desk top on any relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent submission of results because all that is need is a good queue management algorith. A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from polling stations As have al
_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. *Kenya Data Networks,* *Tel: +254(20)5000000,* *www.kdn.co.ke*
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+1 It's the first time I heard on a p2p VPN requiring a RDBMs to run:-) On 7 March 2013 13:44, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote:
"The Safaricom Virtual Private Network that runs on Oracle ...." I stopped there...smh. If you're going to speculate, at least use an intelligent guess.
./bernard On Mar 7, 2013 1:39 PM, "Dan Kwach" <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote:
http://intelligencebriefs.com/?p=3413
Not sure how accurate the above is though...I think speculation is too rife for anyone to know the exact truth..
Rgds,
Dan O.Kwach.
On 3/7/2013 10:18 AM, Bogi Benga wrote:
word round is that the system was hacked
http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/kenyan-election-2013/evans-ondieki-iebc-all...
Anyone who can shed more light on this?
On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 8:45 AM, Martin Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com>wrote:
Hi Nelson,
Thank you for your comments, they are all very sound. I just need to put something small into context:
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Adam Nelson <adam@varud.com> wrote:
I just wanted to respond to many of the issues raised today about the IEBC, the electronic tallying system, and about open access. As one of the few non-Kenyans on the list (2 months in Nairobi, previously NY where I did alot of Python work), maybe I have a unique outsiders point of view.
Of course, this is not my election, but I it is important to the world that Kenya has strong institutions and the duty to create and maintain those institutions lies with everybody.
Hardware is likely not the problem here (disk space comments aside - which are surely do to logical, not physical errors), the problem is multifaceted:
On this list, there is a strong bias towards "Kenyan solutions" or "Kenyanborn". Aside from finding this kind of offensive, it's also just petty and backwards. The reason IEBC exists is not to support the local ICT industry, it's to facilitate a trustworthy platform on which Kenyan elections can take place. In addition, there are hundreds of elections a year around the world and for Kenya to have a one-off system that has never been used elsewhere and will never be used elsewhere is neither efficient nor high quality. Maybe the local word processor and spreadsheet apps should be "Kenyanborn" too?
The general bias towards Kenyan solutions here stems from the fact that most procurements of I.T solutions, for both hardware and software by public institutions in Kenya, is tilted in favour of foreign vending companies. An assumption made is that the imported systems are of higher quality since they were "done abroad" even though this is not always the case.
The issue is that some of the systems end up being done largely by locals. The multi-nationals simply hire Kenyan developers less expensively to do the job right after being awarded the contract but maintain the figures invoiced earlier. In the end they cost a lot of money, for instance the IEBC system that attracted an invoice upwards of 100 million U.S.D. This is not too good especially to our economy's balance of payments.
What people are saying is that we can at least do half-a-decent job, that is all.
Martin.
-- .... And now for something completely different: ``A radioactive cat has 18 half-lives.'' [ PyPy ]
At my last job in the States, almost half the team was non-American and that was a strength, not a weakness. We don't know what happened at the IEBC yet, and kudos to the people working to get that data available, but the failures here cannot be blamed on 'outsiders'. Some of the commentary is bordering on xenophobic.
As for openness at the code level, that would certainly be awesome. Check out this article ( http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/11/internet-based-and-open-source-how-e...) and connect with the Brazilians and Australians rather than try to create a techno-autarky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky).
Cheers, Adam
+254 712 966 801 <%2B254%20712%20966%20801> https://twitter.com/varud https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Bwana Lawi <mail2lawi@gmail.com> wrote:
Cool, we have made up. Hugs and shoulder pats.
Can we get back to the issue at hand now?
:)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
Then I wish you had said that to begin with sans the knee jerk reaction.
I absolutely agree with you about the opening up of the software, and not just that - the processes and procedures followed by all the people in the chain
On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Bernard Owuor wrote:
> Skunks, > If I knew that this windows-vs-linux thing was so emotive, I'd have > skipped it totally. > > It is really obscuring the point I'm trying to make - which is - opening > up softwares built in the public interest - not just to strengthen > the systems, but also to foster confidence among the varioius > stake-holders. > > @Steve, you're really in agreement with me. We're all speculating, > so treat my "windows 8 server" bashing as just that. Just between you and > me, I know that mysql would complain thus in a Linux system if it ran out > of disk space - because Linux stores locks on the disk. I didn't know the > same happened in windows too. But hey, we're free to speculate in the > absence of information. > > @Rad, a bad workman 'quarrels' with his tool. Most of those who > 'blame' their tools seldom work, thus they don't qualify to be called > workmen of any type.... A good workman selects the right tool for the job. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> > *To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> > *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:14 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems > > See? The last bastion of "professionals" > > And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows. > > Bad craftsmen blame their tools > > On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote: > > Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical system? SMDH!!! > > ---- > > Kind Regards, > > Alex Nyalita > > > > On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki < > patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote: > > Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when you've got all > the time in the world; > 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no idea) > 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error message) > 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of possible > assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages you've had > with different production systems) > 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give free advise, > we know they're reading this - wait, isn't someone getting paid to > do all these??) > > On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com > > wrote: > > What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of lessons > learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, > get-your-hands-dirty experience. > What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential design > flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. Whiteafrican > has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting elements. > We can use that for starters. > http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ > ./bernard > On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" < > techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote: > > It's our professional duty and responsibility to question this. In > as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and inasmuch as we > acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it under the carpet > and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain irresponsible. > > Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, even clients > who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client paying 9b! I am > always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who undercut us. > > Anyway, back to issue at hand. > > @Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a proper > voting > > @Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With screenshots > from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had already been > developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the failure is not in > transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the data is already > at IEBC servers? > What would be the technological reason for the system to stop > processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is being > done by google from IEBC servers. > > So what exactly is failing? > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki < > shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Dear Skunks, > Pole for the delay in results. > These are the kind of things that make people suspicious and not > trust local ICT professionals. > The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. All they > know is that 9b of their money was spent > on the systems. > The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that they can be > managed by a powerful desk top on any > relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent submission of > results because all that is need is a good queue > management algorith. > A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from polling > stations > As have al > > _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. *Kenya Data Networks,* *Tel: +254(20)5000000,* *www.kdn.co.ke*
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-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
HAHAHAHA VPN on Oracle ****dead please guys research On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 1:48 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>wrote:
+1
It's the first time I heard on a p2p VPN requiring a RDBMs to run:-)
On 7 March 2013 13:44, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote:
"The Safaricom Virtual Private Network that runs on Oracle ...." I stopped there...smh. If you're going to speculate, at least use an intelligent guess.
./bernard On Mar 7, 2013 1:39 PM, "Dan Kwach" <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote:
http://intelligencebriefs.com/?p=3413
Not sure how accurate the above is though...I think speculation is too rife for anyone to know the exact truth..
Rgds,
Dan O.Kwach.
On 3/7/2013 10:18 AM, Bogi Benga wrote:
word round is that the system was hacked
http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/kenyan-election-2013/evans-ondieki-iebc-all...
Anyone who can shed more light on this?
On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 8:45 AM, Martin Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com
wrote:
Hi Nelson,
Thank you for your comments, they are all very sound. I just need to put something small into context:
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Adam Nelson <adam@varud.com> wrote:
I just wanted to respond to many of the issues raised today about the IEBC, the electronic tallying system, and about open access. As one of the few non-Kenyans on the list (2 months in Nairobi, previously NY where I did alot of Python work), maybe I have a unique outsiders point of view.
Of course, this is not my election, but I it is important to the world that Kenya has strong institutions and the duty to create and maintain those institutions lies with everybody.
Hardware is likely not the problem here (disk space comments aside - which are surely do to logical, not physical errors), the problem is multifaceted:
On this list, there is a strong bias towards "Kenyan solutions" or "Kenyanborn". Aside from finding this kind of offensive, it's also just petty and backwards. The reason IEBC exists is not to support the local ICT industry, it's to facilitate a trustworthy platform on which Kenyan elections can take place. In addition, there are hundreds of elections a year around the world and for Kenya to have a one-off system that has never been used elsewhere and will never be used elsewhere is neither efficient nor high quality. Maybe the local word processor and spreadsheet apps should be "Kenyanborn" too?
The general bias towards Kenyan solutions here stems from the fact that most procurements of I.T solutions, for both hardware and software by public institutions in Kenya, is tilted in favour of foreign vending companies. An assumption made is that the imported systems are of higher quality since they were "done abroad" even though this is not always the case.
The issue is that some of the systems end up being done largely by locals. The multi-nationals simply hire Kenyan developers less expensively to do the job right after being awarded the contract but maintain the figures invoiced earlier. In the end they cost a lot of money, for instance the IEBC system that attracted an invoice upwards of 100 million U.S.D. This is not too good especially to our economy's balance of payments.
What people are saying is that we can at least do half-a-decent job, that is all.
Martin.
-- .... And now for something completely different: ``A radioactive cat has 18 half-lives.'' [ PyPy ]
At my last job in the States, almost half the team was non-American and that was a strength, not a weakness. We don't know what happened at the IEBC yet, and kudos to the people working to get that data available, but the failures here cannot be blamed on 'outsiders'. Some of the commentary is bordering on xenophobic.
As for openness at the code level, that would certainly be awesome. Check out this article ( http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/11/internet-based-and-open-source-how-e...) and connect with the Brazilians and Australians rather than try to create a techno-autarky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky).
Cheers, Adam
+254 712 966 801 <%2B254%20712%20966%20801> https://twitter.com/varud https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Bwana Lawi <mail2lawi@gmail.com>wrote:
Cool, we have made up. Hugs and shoulder pats.
Can we get back to the issue at hand now?
:)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com>wrote:
> Then I wish you had said that to begin with sans the knee jerk > reaction. > > I absolutely agree with you about the opening up of the software, > and not just that - the processes and procedures followed by all > the people in the chain > > > On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Bernard Owuor wrote: > >> Skunks, >> If I knew that this windows-vs-linux thing was so emotive, I'd have >> skipped it totally. >> >> It is really obscuring the point I'm trying to make - which is - opening >> up softwares built in the public interest - not just to strengthen >> the systems, but also to foster confidence among the varioius >> stake-holders. >> >> @Steve, you're really in agreement with me. We're all speculating, >> so treat my "windows 8 server" bashing as just that. Just between you and >> me, I know that mysql would complain thus in a Linux system if it ran out >> of disk space - because Linux stores locks on the disk. I didn't know the >> same happened in windows too. But hey, we're free to speculate in the >> absence of information. >> >> @Rad, a bad workman 'quarrels' with his tool. Most of those who >> 'blame' their tools seldom work, thus they don't qualify to be called >> workmen of any type.... A good workman selects the right tool for the job. >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> >> *To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> >> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:14 PM >> >> *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems >> >> See? The last bastion of "professionals" >> >> And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows. >> >> Bad craftsmen blame their tools >> >> On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote: >> >> Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical system? SMDH!!! >> >> ---- >> >> Kind Regards, >> >> Alex Nyalita >> >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki < >> patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when you've got all >> the time in the world; >> 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no idea) >> 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error message) >> 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of possible >> assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages you've had >> with different production systems) >> 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give free >> advise, we know they're reading this - wait, isn't someone getting >> paid to do all these??) >> >> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru < >> bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of lessons >> learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, >> get-your-hands-dirty experience. >> What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential design >> flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. Whiteafrican >> has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting elements. >> We can use that for starters. >> http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ >> ./bernard >> On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" < >> techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> It's our professional duty and responsibility to question this. >> In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and inasmuch as we >> acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it under the carpet >> and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain irresponsible. >> >> Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, even clients >> who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client paying 9b! I am >> always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who undercut us. >> >> Anyway, back to issue at hand. >> >> @Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a proper >> voting >> >> @Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With screenshots >> from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had already been >> developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the failure is not in >> transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the data is already >> at IEBC servers? >> What would be the technological reason for the system to stop >> processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is being >> done by google from IEBC servers. >> >> So what exactly is failing? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki < >> shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> Dear Skunks, >> Pole for the delay in results. >> These are the kind of things that make people suspicious and not >> trust local ICT professionals. >> The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. All they >> know is that 9b of their money was spent >> on the systems. >> The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that they can >> be managed by a powerful desk top on any >> relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent submission of >> results because all that is need is a good queue >> management algorith. >> A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from polling >> stations >> As have al >> >> > _______________________________________________ > skunkworks mailing list > skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > ------------ > List info, subscribe/unsubscribe > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
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This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. *Kenya Data Networks,* *Tel: +254(20)5000000,* *www.kdn.co.ke*
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-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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@ Wash... Wewe...heshimu Western media...the guys know thea stuff...:-D Dan O.Kwach. On 3/7/2013 1:48 PM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
+1
It's the first time I heard on a p2p VPN requiring a RDBMs to run:-)
On 7 March 2013 13:44, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com <mailto:bmwagiru@gmail.com>> wrote:
"The Safaricom Virtual Private Network that runs on Oracle ...." I stopped there...smh. If you're going to speculate, at least use an intelligent guess.
./bernard
On Mar 7, 2013 1:39 PM, "Dan Kwach" <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke <mailto:dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke>> wrote:
http://intelligencebriefs.com/?p=3413
Not sure how accurate the above is though...I think speculation is too rife for anyone to know the exact truth..
Rgds,
Dan O.Kwach.
On 3/7/2013 10:18 AM, Bogi Benga wrote:
word round is that the system was hacked
http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/kenyan-election-2013/evans-ondieki-iebc-all...
Anyone who can shed more light on this?
On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 8:45 AM, Martin Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com <mailto:martin.chiteri@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Nelson,
Thank you for your comments, they are all very sound. I just need to put something small into context:
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Adam Nelson <adam@varud.com <mailto:adam@varud.com>> wrote:
I just wanted to respond to many of the issues raised today about the IEBC, the electronic tallying system, and about open access. As one of the few non-Kenyans on the list (2 months in Nairobi, previously NY where I did alot of Python work), maybe I have a unique outsiders point of view.
Of course, this is not my election, but I it is important to the world that Kenya has strong institutions and the duty to create and maintain those institutions lies with everybody.
Hardware is likely not the problem here (disk space comments aside - which are surely do to logical, not physical errors), the problem is multifaceted:
On this list, there is a strong bias towards "Kenyan solutions" or "Kenyanborn". Aside from finding this kind of offensive, it's also just petty and backwards. The reason IEBC exists is not to support the local ICT industry, it's to facilitate a trustworthy platform on which Kenyan elections can take place. In addition, there are hundreds of elections a year around the world and for Kenya to have a one-off system that has never been used elsewhere and will never be used elsewhere is neither efficient nor high quality. Maybe the local word processor and spreadsheet apps should be "Kenyanborn" too?
The general bias towards Kenyan solutions here stems from the fact that most procurements of I.T solutions, for both hardware and software by public institutions in Kenya, is tilted in favour of foreign vending companies. An assumption made is that the imported systems are of higher quality since they were "done abroad" even though this is not always the case.
The issue is that some of the systems end up being done largely by locals. The multi-nationals simply hire Kenyan developers less expensively to do the job right after being awarded the contract but maintain the figures invoiced earlier. In the end they cost a lot of money, for instance the IEBC system that attracted an invoice upwards of 100 million U.S.D. This is not too good especially to our economy's balance of payments.
What people are saying is that we can at least do half-a-decent job, that is all.
Martin.
-- .... And now for something completely different: ``A radioactive cat has 18 half-lives.'' [ PyPy ]
At my last job in the States, almost half the team was non-American and that was a strength, not a weakness. We don't know what happened at the IEBC yet, and kudos to the people working to get that data available, but the failures here cannot be blamed on 'outsiders'. Some of the commentary is bordering on xenophobic.
As for openness at the code level, that would certainly be awesome. Check out this article (http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/11/internet-based-and-open-source-how-e...) and connect with the Brazilians and Australians rather than try to create a techno-autarky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky).
Cheers, Adam
+254 712 966 801 <tel:%2B254%20712%20966%20801> https://twitter.com/varud https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Bwana Lawi <mail2lawi@gmail.com <mailto:mail2lawi@gmail.com>> wrote:
Cool, we have made up. Hugs and shoulder pats.
Can we get back to the issue at hand now?
:)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com <mailto:conradakunga@gmail.com>> wrote:
Then I wish you had said that to begin with sans the knee jerk reaction.
I absolutely agree with you about the opening up of the software, and not just that - the processes and procedures followed by all the people in the chain
On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Bernard Owuor wrote:
Skunks, If I knew that this windows-vs-linux thing was so emotive, I'd have skipped it totally.
It is really obscuring the point I'm trying to make - which is - opening up softwares built in the public interest - not just to strengthen the systems, but also to foster confidence among the varioius stake-holders.
@Steve, you're really in agreement with me. We're all speculating, so treat my "windows 8 server" bashing as just that. Just between you and me, I know that mysql would complain thus in a Linux system if it ran out of disk space - because Linux stores locks on the disk. I didn't know the same happened in windows too. But hey, we're free to speculate in the absence of information.
@Rad, a bad workman 'quarrels' with his tool. Most of those who 'blame' their tools seldom work, thus they don't qualify to be called workmen of any type.... A good workman selects the right tool for the job.
------------------------------------------------------------------------ *From:* Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> *To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:14 PM
*Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems
See? The last bastion of "professionals"
And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows.
Bad craftsmen blame their tools
On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote:
Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical system? SMDH!!!
----
Kind Regards,
Alex Nyalita
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki <patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when you've got all the time in the world; 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no idea) 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error message) 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of possible assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages you've had with different production systems) 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give free advise, we know they're reading this -wait, isn't someone getting paid to do all these??)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote:
What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, get-your-hands-dirty experience. What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential design flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. Whiteafrican has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting elements. We can use that for starters. http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ ./bernard On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" <techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote:
It's our professional duty and responsibility to question this. In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and inasmuch as we acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it under the carpet and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain irresponsible. Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, even clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client paying 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who undercut us. Anyway, back to issue at hand. @Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a proper voting @Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the data is already at IEBC servers? What would be the technological reason for the system to stop processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is being done by google from IEBC servers. So what exactly is failing?
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki <shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Skunks, Pole for the delay in results. These are the kind of things that make people suspicious and not trust local ICT professionals. The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. All they know is that 9b of their money was spent on the systems. The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that they can be managed by a powerful desk top on any relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent submission of results because all that is need is a good queue management algorith. A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from polling stations As have al
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-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
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This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should notdisseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, orcontain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for anyerrors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. Kenya Data Networks, Tel: +254(20)5000000, www.kdn.co.ke
intelligent briefs indeed On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 1:59 PM, Dan Kwach <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote:
@ Wash...
Wewe...heshimu Western media...the guys know thea stuff... :-D
Dan O.Kwach.
On 3/7/2013 1:48 PM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
+1
It's the first time I heard on a p2p VPN requiring a RDBMs to run:-)
On 7 March 2013 13:44, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote:
"The Safaricom Virtual Private Network that runs on Oracle ...." I stopped there...smh. If you're going to speculate, at least use an intelligent guess.
./bernard On Mar 7, 2013 1:39 PM, "Dan Kwach" <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote:
http://intelligencebriefs.com/?p=3413
Not sure how accurate the above is though...I think speculation is too rife for anyone to know the exact truth..
Rgds,
Dan O.Kwach.
On 3/7/2013 10:18 AM, Bogi Benga wrote:
word round is that the system was hacked
http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/kenyan-election-2013/evans-ondieki-iebc-all...
Anyone who can shed more light on this?
On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 8:45 AM, Martin Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com
wrote:
Hi Nelson,
Thank you for your comments, they are all very sound. I just need to put something small into context:
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Adam Nelson <adam@varud.com> wrote:
I just wanted to respond to many of the issues raised today about the IEBC, the electronic tallying system, and about open access. As one of the few non-Kenyans on the list (2 months in Nairobi, previously NY where I did alot of Python work), maybe I have a unique outsiders point of view.
Of course, this is not my election, but I it is important to the world that Kenya has strong institutions and the duty to create and maintain those institutions lies with everybody.
Hardware is likely not the problem here (disk space comments aside - which are surely do to logical, not physical errors), the problem is multifaceted:
On this list, there is a strong bias towards "Kenyan solutions" or "Kenyanborn". Aside from finding this kind of offensive, it's also just petty and backwards. The reason IEBC exists is not to support the local ICT industry, it's to facilitate a trustworthy platform on which Kenyan elections can take place. In addition, there are hundreds of elections a year around the world and for Kenya to have a one-off system that has never been used elsewhere and will never be used elsewhere is neither efficient nor high quality. Maybe the local word processor and spreadsheet apps should be "Kenyanborn" too?
The general bias towards Kenyan solutions here stems from the fact that most procurements of I.T solutions, for both hardware and software by public institutions in Kenya, is tilted in favour of foreign vending companies. An assumption made is that the imported systems are of higher quality since they were "done abroad" even though this is not always the case.
The issue is that some of the systems end up being done largely by locals. The multi-nationals simply hire Kenyan developers less expensively to do the job right after being awarded the contract but maintain the figures invoiced earlier. In the end they cost a lot of money, for instance the IEBC system that attracted an invoice upwards of 100 million U.S.D. This is not too good especially to our economy's balance of payments.
What people are saying is that we can at least do half-a-decent job, that is all.
Martin.
-- .... And now for something completely different: ``A radioactive cat has 18 half-lives.'' [ PyPy ]
At my last job in the States, almost half the team was non-American and that was a strength, not a weakness. We don't know what happened at the IEBC yet, and kudos to the people working to get that data available, but the failures here cannot be blamed on 'outsiders'. Some of the commentary is bordering on xenophobic.
As for openness at the code level, that would certainly be awesome. Check out this article ( http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/11/internet-based-and-open-source-how-e...) and connect with the Brazilians and Australians rather than try to create a techno-autarky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky).
Cheers, Adam
+254 712 966 801 <%2B254%20712%20966%20801> https://twitter.com/varud https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Bwana Lawi <mail2lawi@gmail.com>wrote:
Cool, we have made up. Hugs and shoulder pats.
Can we get back to the issue at hand now?
:)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com>wrote:
> Then I wish you had said that to begin with sans the knee jerk > reaction. > > I absolutely agree with you about the opening up of the software, > and not just that - the processes and procedures followed by all > the people in the chain > > > On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Bernard Owuor wrote: > >> Skunks, >> If I knew that this windows-vs-linux thing was so emotive, I'd have >> skipped it totally. >> >> It is really obscuring the point I'm trying to make - which is - opening >> up softwares built in the public interest - not just to strengthen >> the systems, but also to foster confidence among the varioius >> stake-holders. >> >> @Steve, you're really in agreement with me. We're all speculating, >> so treat my "windows 8 server" bashing as just that. Just between you and >> me, I know that mysql would complain thus in a Linux system if it ran out >> of disk space - because Linux stores locks on the disk. I didn't know the >> same happened in windows too. But hey, we're free to speculate in the >> absence of information. >> >> @Rad, a bad workman 'quarrels' with his tool. Most of those who >> 'blame' their tools seldom work, thus they don't qualify to be called >> workmen of any type.... A good workman selects the right tool for the job. >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> >> *To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> >> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:14 PM >> >> *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems >> >> See? The last bastion of "professionals" >> >> And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows. >> >> Bad craftsmen blame their tools >> >> On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote: >> >> Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical system? SMDH!!! >> >> ---- >> >> Kind Regards, >> >> Alex Nyalita >> >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki < >> patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when you've got all >> the time in the world; >> 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no idea) >> 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error message) >> 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of possible >> assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages you've had >> with different production systems) >> 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give free >> advise, we know they're reading this - wait, isn't someone getting >> paid to do all these??) >> >> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru < >> bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of lessons >> learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, >> get-your-hands-dirty experience. >> What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential design >> flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. Whiteafrican >> has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting elements. >> We can use that for starters. >> http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ >> ./bernard >> On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" < >> techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> It's our professional duty and responsibility to question this. >> In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and inasmuch as we >> acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it under the carpet >> and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain irresponsible. >> >> Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, even clients >> who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client paying 9b! I am >> always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who undercut us. >> >> Anyway, back to issue at hand. >> >> @Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a proper >> voting >> >> @Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With screenshots >> from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had already been >> developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the failure is not in >> transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the data is already >> at IEBC servers? >> What would be the technological reason for the system to stop >> processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is being >> done by google from IEBC servers. >> >> So what exactly is failing? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki < >> shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> Dear Skunks, >> Pole for the delay in results. >> These are the kind of things that make people suspicious and not >> trust local ICT professionals. >> The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. All they >> know is that 9b of their money was spent >> on the systems. >> The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that they can >> be managed by a powerful desk top on any >> relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent submission of >> results because all that is need is a good queue >> management algorith. >> A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from polling >> stations >> As have al >> >> > _______________________________________________ > skunkworks mailing list > skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > ------------ > List info, subscribe/unsubscribe > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
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You now get the drift..intelligent is brief in that page... Rgds, Dan O.Kwach. On 3/7/2013 2:01 PM, Patrick Karanja wrote:
intelligent briefs indeed
On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 1:59 PM, Dan Kwach <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke <mailto:dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke>> wrote:
@ Wash...
Wewe...heshimu Western media...the guys know thea stuff...:-D
Dan O.Kwach.
On 3/7/2013 1:48 PM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
+1
It's the first time I heard on a p2p VPN requiring a RDBMs to run:-)
On 7 March 2013 13:44, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com <mailto:bmwagiru@gmail.com>> wrote:
"The Safaricom Virtual Private Network that runs on Oracle ...." I stopped there...smh. If you're going to speculate, at least use an intelligent guess.
./bernard
On Mar 7, 2013 1:39 PM, "Dan Kwach" <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke <mailto:dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke>> wrote:
http://intelligencebriefs.com/?p=3413
Not sure how accurate the above is though...I think speculation is too rife for anyone to know the exact truth..
Rgds,
Dan O.Kwach.
On 3/7/2013 10:18 AM, Bogi Benga wrote:
word round is that the system was hacked
http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/kenyan-election-2013/evans-ondieki-iebc-all...
Anyone who can shed more light on this?
On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 8:45 AM, Martin Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com <mailto:martin.chiteri@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Nelson,
Thank you for your comments, they are all very sound. I just need to put something small into context:
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Adam Nelson <adam@varud.com <mailto:adam@varud.com>> wrote:
I just wanted to respond to many of the issues raised today about the IEBC, the electronic tallying system, and about open access. As one of the few non-Kenyans on the list (2 months in Nairobi, previously NY where I did alot of Python work), maybe I have a unique outsiders point of view.
Of course, this is not my election, but I it is important to the world that Kenya has strong institutions and the duty to create and maintain those institutions lies with everybody.
Hardware is likely not the problem here (disk space comments aside - which are surely do to logical, not physical errors), the problem is multifaceted:
On this list, there is a strong bias towards "Kenyan solutions" or "Kenyanborn". Aside from finding this kind of offensive, it's also just petty and backwards. The reason IEBC exists is not to support the local ICT industry, it's to facilitate a trustworthy platform on which Kenyan elections can take place. In addition, there are hundreds of elections a year around the world and for Kenya to have a one-off system that has never been used elsewhere and will never be used elsewhere is neither efficient nor high quality. Maybe the local word processor and spreadsheet apps should be "Kenyanborn" too?
The general bias towards Kenyan solutions here stems from the fact that most procurements of I.T solutions, for both hardware and software by public institutions in Kenya, is tilted in favour of foreign vending companies. An assumption made is that the imported systems are of higher quality since they were "done abroad" even though this is not always the case.
The issue is that some of the systems end up being done largely by locals. The multi-nationals simply hire Kenyan developers less expensively to do the job right after being awarded the contract but maintain the figures invoiced earlier. In the end they cost a lot of money, for instance the IEBC system that attracted an invoice upwards of 100 million U.S.D. This is not too good especially to our economy's balance of payments.
What people are saying is that we can at least do half-a-decent job, that is all.
Martin.
-- .... And now for something completely different: ``A radioactive cat has 18 half-lives.'' [ PyPy ]
At my last job in the States, almost half the team was non-American and that was a strength, not a weakness. We don't know what happened at the IEBC yet, and kudos to the people working to get that data available, but the failures here cannot be blamed on 'outsiders'. Some of the commentary is bordering on xenophobic.
As for openness at the code level, that would certainly be awesome. Check out this article (http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/11/internet-based-and-open-source-how-e...) and connect with the Brazilians and Australians rather than try to create a techno-autarky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky).
Cheers, Adam
+254 712 966 801 <tel:%2B254%20712%20966%20801> https://twitter.com/varud https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Bwana Lawi <mail2lawi@gmail.com <mailto:mail2lawi@gmail.com>> wrote:
Cool, we have made up. Hugs and shoulder pats.
Can we get back to the issue at hand now?
:)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com <mailto:conradakunga@gmail.com>> wrote:
Then I wish you had said that to begin with sans the knee jerk reaction.
I absolutely agree with you about the opening up of the software, and not just that - the processes and procedures followed by all the people in the chain
On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Bernard Owuor wrote:
Skunks, If I knew that this windows-vs-linux thing was so emotive, I'd have skipped it totally.
It is really obscuring the point I'm trying to make - which is - opening up softwares built in the public interest - not just to strengthen the systems, but also to foster confidence among the varioius stake-holders.
@Steve, you're really in agreement with me. We're all speculating, so treat my "windows 8 server" bashing as just that. Just between you and me, I know that mysql would complain thus in a Linux system if it ran out of disk space - because Linux stores locks on the disk. I didn't know the same happened in windows too. But hey, we're free to speculate in the absence of information.
@Rad, a bad workman 'quarrels' with his tool. Most of those who 'blame' their tools seldom work, thus they don't qualify to be called workmen of any type.... A good workman selects the right tool for the job.
------------------------------------------------------------------------ *From:* Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> *To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:14 PM
*Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems
See? The last bastion of "professionals"
And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows.
Bad craftsmen blame their tools
On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote:
Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical system? SMDH!!!
----
Kind Regards,
Alex Nyalita
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki <patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when you've got all the time in the world; 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no idea) 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error message) 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of possible assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages you've had with different production systems) 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give free advise, we know they're reading this -wait, isn't someone getting paid to do all these??)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote:
What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, get-your-hands-dirty experience. What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential design flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. Whiteafrican has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting elements. We can use that for starters. http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ ./bernard On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" <techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote:
It's our professional duty and responsibility to question this. In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and inasmuch as we acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it under the carpet and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain irresponsible. Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, even clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client paying 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who undercut us. Anyway, back to issue at hand. @Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a proper voting @Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the data is already at IEBC servers? What would be the technological reason for the system to stop processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is being done by google from IEBC servers. So what exactly is failing?
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki <shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Skunks, Pole for the delay in results. These are the kind of things that make people suspicious and not trust local ICT professionals. The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. All they know is that 9b of their money was spent on the systems. The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that they can be managed by a powerful desk top on any relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent submission of results because all that is need is a good queue management algorith. A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from polling stations As have al
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Heheee.. It's not only Western Media. Some Kenyan bloggers keen on being very controversial and very nasty have it too.. Check out our own (Kenya's) Robert Alai doing his verbal diarrhea here -> http://lix.in/-c9fe46 On 7 March 2013 13:59, Dan Kwach <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote:
@ Wash...
Wewe...heshimu Western media...the guys know thea stuff... :-D
Dan O.Kwach.
On 3/7/2013 1:48 PM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
+1
It's the first time I heard on a p2p VPN requiring a RDBMs to run:-)
On 7 March 2013 13:44, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote:
"The Safaricom Virtual Private Network that runs on Oracle ...." I stopped there...smh. If you're going to speculate, at least use an intelligent guess.
./bernard On Mar 7, 2013 1:39 PM, "Dan Kwach" <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote:
http://intelligencebriefs.com/?p=3413
Not sure how accurate the above is though...I think speculation is too rife for anyone to know the exact truth..
Rgds,
Dan O.Kwach.
On 3/7/2013 10:18 AM, Bogi Benga wrote:
word round is that the system was hacked
http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/kenyan-election-2013/evans-ondieki-iebc-all...
Anyone who can shed more light on this?
On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 8:45 AM, Martin Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com
wrote:
Hi Nelson,
Thank you for your comments, they are all very sound. I just need to put something small into context:
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Adam Nelson <adam@varud.com> wrote:
I just wanted to respond to many of the issues raised today about the IEBC, the electronic tallying system, and about open access. As one of the few non-Kenyans on the list (2 months in Nairobi, previously NY where I did alot of Python work), maybe I have a unique outsiders point of view.
Of course, this is not my election, but I it is important to the world that Kenya has strong institutions and the duty to create and maintain those institutions lies with everybody.
Hardware is likely not the problem here (disk space comments aside - which are surely do to logical, not physical errors), the problem is multifaceted:
On this list, there is a strong bias towards "Kenyan solutions" or "Kenyanborn". Aside from finding this kind of offensive, it's also just petty and backwards. The reason IEBC exists is not to support the local ICT industry, it's to facilitate a trustworthy platform on which Kenyan elections can take place. In addition, there are hundreds of elections a year around the world and for Kenya to have a one-off system that has never been used elsewhere and will never be used elsewhere is neither efficient nor high quality. Maybe the local word processor and spreadsheet apps should be "Kenyanborn" too?
The general bias towards Kenyan solutions here stems from the fact that most procurements of I.T solutions, for both hardware and software by public institutions in Kenya, is tilted in favour of foreign vending companies. An assumption made is that the imported systems are of higher quality since they were "done abroad" even though this is not always the case.
The issue is that some of the systems end up being done largely by locals. The multi-nationals simply hire Kenyan developers less expensively to do the job right after being awarded the contract but maintain the figures invoiced earlier. In the end they cost a lot of money, for instance the IEBC system that attracted an invoice upwards of 100 million U.S.D. This is not too good especially to our economy's balance of payments.
What people are saying is that we can at least do half-a-decent job, that is all.
Martin.
-- .... And now for something completely different: ``A radioactive cat has 18 half-lives.'' [ PyPy ]
At my last job in the States, almost half the team was non-American and that was a strength, not a weakness. We don't know what happened at the IEBC yet, and kudos to the people working to get that data available, but the failures here cannot be blamed on 'outsiders'. Some of the commentary is bordering on xenophobic.
As for openness at the code level, that would certainly be awesome. Check out this article ( http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/11/internet-based-and-open-source-how-e...) and connect with the Brazilians and Australians rather than try to create a techno-autarky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky).
Cheers, Adam
+254 712 966 801 <%2B254%20712%20966%20801> https://twitter.com/varud https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Bwana Lawi <mail2lawi@gmail.com>wrote:
Cool, we have made up. Hugs and shoulder pats.
Can we get back to the issue at hand now?
:)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com>wrote:
> Then I wish you had said that to begin with sans the knee jerk > reaction. > > I absolutely agree with you about the opening up of the software, > and not just that - the processes and procedures followed by all > the people in the chain > > > On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Bernard Owuor wrote: > >> Skunks, >> If I knew that this windows-vs-linux thing was so emotive, I'd have >> skipped it totally. >> >> It is really obscuring the point I'm trying to make - which is - opening >> up softwares built in the public interest - not just to strengthen >> the systems, but also to foster confidence among the varioius >> stake-holders. >> >> @Steve, you're really in agreement with me. We're all speculating, >> so treat my "windows 8 server" bashing as just that. Just between you and >> me, I know that mysql would complain thus in a Linux system if it ran out >> of disk space - because Linux stores locks on the disk. I didn't know the >> same happened in windows too. But hey, we're free to speculate in the >> absence of information. >> >> @Rad, a bad workman 'quarrels' with his tool. Most of those who >> 'blame' their tools seldom work, thus they don't qualify to be called >> workmen of any type.... A good workman selects the right tool for the job. >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> >> *To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> >> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:14 PM >> >> *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems >> >> See? The last bastion of "professionals" >> >> And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows. >> >> Bad craftsmen blame their tools >> >> On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote: >> >> Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical system? SMDH!!! >> >> ---- >> >> Kind Regards, >> >> Alex Nyalita >> >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki < >> patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when you've got all >> the time in the world; >> 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no idea) >> 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error message) >> 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of possible >> assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages you've had >> with different production systems) >> 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give free >> advise, we know they're reading this - wait, isn't someone getting >> paid to do all these??) >> >> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru < >> bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of lessons >> learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, >> get-your-hands-dirty experience. >> What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential design >> flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. Whiteafrican >> has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting elements. >> We can use that for starters. >> http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ >> ./bernard >> On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" < >> techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> It's our professional duty and responsibility to question this. >> In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and inasmuch as we >> acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it under the carpet >> and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain irresponsible. >> >> Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, even clients >> who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client paying 9b! I am >> always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who undercut us. >> >> Anyway, back to issue at hand. >> >> @Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a proper >> voting >> >> @Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With screenshots >> from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had already been >> developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the failure is not in >> transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the data is already >> at IEBC servers? >> What would be the technological reason for the system to stop >> processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is being >> done by google from IEBC servers. >> >> So what exactly is failing? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki < >> shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> Dear Skunks, >> Pole for the delay in results. >> These are the kind of things that make people suspicious and not >> trust local ICT professionals. >> The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. All they >> know is that 9b of their money was spent >> on the systems. >> The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that they can >> be managed by a powerful desk top on any >> relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent submission of >> results because all that is need is a good queue >> management algorith. >> A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from polling >> stations >> As have al >> >> > _______________________________________________ > skunkworks mailing list > skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > ------------ > List info, subscribe/unsubscribe > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
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-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
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-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
I was hoping someone would post or comment on this link here: http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000081518&story_title=Kenya--IT-a... Martin. On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 2:04 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>wrote:
Heheee.. It's not only Western Media. Some Kenyan bloggers keen on being very controversial and very nasty have it too.. Check out our own (Kenya's) Robert Alai doing his verbal diarrhea here -> http://lix.in/-c9fe46
On 7 March 2013 13:59, Dan Kwach <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote:
@ Wash...
Wewe...heshimu Western media...the guys know thea stuff... :-D
Dan O.Kwach.
On 3/7/2013 1:48 PM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
+1
It's the first time I heard on a p2p VPN requiring a RDBMs to run:-)
On 7 March 2013 13:44, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote:
"The Safaricom Virtual Private Network that runs on Oracle ...." I stopped there...smh. If you're going to speculate, at least use an intelligent guess.
./bernard On Mar 7, 2013 1:39 PM, "Dan Kwach" <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote:
http://intelligencebriefs.com/?p=3413
Not sure how accurate the above is though...I think speculation is too rife for anyone to know the exact truth..
Rgds,
Dan O.Kwach.
On 3/7/2013 10:18 AM, Bogi Benga wrote:
word round is that the system was hacked
http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/kenyan-election-2013/evans-ondieki-iebc-all...
Anyone who can shed more light on this?
On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 8:45 AM, Martin Chiteri < martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Nelson,
Thank you for your comments, they are all very sound. I just need to put something small into context:
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Adam Nelson <adam@varud.com> wrote:
I just wanted to respond to many of the issues raised today about the IEBC, the electronic tallying system, and about open access. As one of the few non-Kenyans on the list (2 months in Nairobi, previously NY where I did alot of Python work), maybe I have a unique outsiders point of view.
Of course, this is not my election, but I it is important to the world that Kenya has strong institutions and the duty to create and maintain those institutions lies with everybody.
Hardware is likely not the problem here (disk space comments aside - which are surely do to logical, not physical errors), the problem is multifaceted:
On this list, there is a strong bias towards "Kenyan solutions" or "Kenyanborn". Aside from finding this kind of offensive, it's also just petty and backwards. The reason IEBC exists is not to support the local ICT industry, it's to facilitate a trustworthy platform on which Kenyan elections can take place. In addition, there are hundreds of elections a year around the world and for Kenya to have a one-off system that has never been used elsewhere and will never be used elsewhere is neither efficient nor high quality. Maybe the local word processor and spreadsheet apps should be "Kenyanborn" too?
The general bias towards Kenyan solutions here stems from the fact that most procurements of I.T solutions, for both hardware and software by public institutions in Kenya, is tilted in favour of foreign vending companies. An assumption made is that the imported systems are of higher quality since they were "done abroad" even though this is not always the case.
The issue is that some of the systems end up being done largely by locals. The multi-nationals simply hire Kenyan developers less expensively to do the job right after being awarded the contract but maintain the figures invoiced earlier. In the end they cost a lot of money, for instance the IEBC system that attracted an invoice upwards of 100 million U.S.D. This is not too good especially to our economy's balance of payments.
What people are saying is that we can at least do half-a-decent job, that is all.
Martin.
-- .... And now for something completely different: ``A radioactive cat has 18 half-lives.'' [ PyPy ]
At my last job in the States, almost half the team was non-American and that was a strength, not a weakness. We don't know what happened at the IEBC yet, and kudos to the people working to get that data available, but the failures here cannot be blamed on 'outsiders'. Some of the commentary is bordering on xenophobic.
As for openness at the code level, that would certainly be awesome. Check out this article ( http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/11/internet-based-and-open-source-how-e...) and connect with the Brazilians and Australians rather than try to create a techno-autarky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky).
Cheers, Adam
+254 712 966 801 <%2B254%20712%20966%20801> https://twitter.com/varud https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Bwana Lawi <mail2lawi@gmail.com>wrote:
> Cool, we have made up. Hugs and shoulder pats. > > Can we get back to the issue at hand now? > > :) > > > On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com>wrote: > >> Then I wish you had said that to begin with sans the knee jerk >> reaction. >> >> I absolutely agree with you about the opening up of the software, >> and not just that - the processes and procedures followed by all >> the people in the chain >> >> >> On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Bernard Owuor wrote: >> >>> Skunks, >>> If I knew that this windows-vs-linux thing was so emotive, I'd >>> have skipped it totally. >>> >>> It is really obscuring the point I'm trying to make - which is - opening >>> up softwares built in the public interest - not just to strengthen >>> the systems, but also to foster confidence among the varioius >>> stake-holders. >>> >>> @Steve, you're really in agreement with me. We're all speculating, >>> so treat my "windows 8 server" bashing as just that. Just between you and >>> me, I know that mysql would complain thus in a Linux system if it ran out >>> of disk space - because Linux stores locks on the disk. I didn't know the >>> same happened in windows too. But hey, we're free to speculate in the >>> absence of information. >>> >>> @Rad, a bad workman 'quarrels' with his tool. Most of those who >>> 'blame' their tools seldom work, thus they don't qualify to be called >>> workmen of any type.... A good workman selects the right tool for the job. >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> >>> *To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> >>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:14 PM >>> >>> *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems >>> >>> See? The last bastion of "professionals" >>> >>> And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows. >>> >>> Bad craftsmen blame their tools >>> >>> On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote: >>> >>> Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical system? SMDH!!! >>> >>> ---- >>> >>> Kind Regards, >>> >>> Alex Nyalita >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki < >>> patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when you've got >>> all the time in the world; >>> 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no idea) >>> 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error message) >>> 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of possible >>> assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages you've had >>> with different production systems) >>> 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give free >>> advise, we know they're reading this - wait, isn't someone >>> getting paid to do all these??) >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru < >>> bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of lessons >>> learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, >>> get-your-hands-dirty experience. >>> What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential design >>> flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. Whiteafrican >>> has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting elements. >>> We can use that for starters. >>> http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ >>> ./bernard >>> On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" < >>> techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> It's our professional duty and responsibility to question this. >>> In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and inasmuch as we >>> acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it under the carpet >>> and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain irresponsible. >>> >>> Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, even >>> clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client paying >>> 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who undercut >>> us. >>> >>> Anyway, back to issue at hand. >>> >>> @Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a proper >>> voting >>> >>> @Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With >>> screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had >>> already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the >>> failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the >>> data is already at IEBC servers? >>> What would be the technological reason for the system to stop >>> processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is being >>> done by google from IEBC servers. >>> >>> So what exactly is failing? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki < >>> shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote: >>> >>> Dear Skunks, >>> Pole for the delay in results. >>> These are the kind of things that make people suspicious and not >>> trust local ICT professionals. >>> The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. All they >>> know is that 9b of their money was spent >>> on the systems. >>> The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that they can >>> be managed by a powerful desk top on any >>> relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent submission of >>> results because all that is need is a good queue >>> management algorith. >>> A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from polling >>> stations >>> As have al >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> skunkworks mailing list >> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >> ------------ >> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >> ------------ >> >> Skunkworks Rules >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >> ------------ >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >> > > > _______________________________________________ > skunkworks mailing list > skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > ------------ > List info, subscribe/unsubscribe > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
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We have "moved on"! In one of todays dailies, UNDP offered to fund the audit of IEBC systems on condition that IEBC allows an outside body to participate in the audit process. Guess what? IEBC has refused and only want to audit itself internally. So why worry about what went wrong anyway? Perhaps we need to go to court to seek authority for external audit of IEBC, funded by UNDP of course. I can bet 100% that none of us really cares about that! Prove me wrong. On 16 April 2013 15:01, Martin Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote:
I was hoping someone would post or comment on this link here: http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000081518&story_title=Kenya--IT-a...
Martin.
On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 2:04 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>wrote:
Heheee.. It's not only Western Media. Some Kenyan bloggers keen on being very controversial and very nasty have it too.. Check out our own (Kenya's) Robert Alai doing his verbal diarrhea here -> http://lix.in/-c9fe46
On 7 March 2013 13:59, Dan Kwach <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote:
@ Wash...
Wewe...heshimu Western media...the guys know thea stuff... :-D
Dan O.Kwach.
On 3/7/2013 1:48 PM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
+1
It's the first time I heard on a p2p VPN requiring a RDBMs to run:-)
On 7 March 2013 13:44, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote:
"The Safaricom Virtual Private Network that runs on Oracle ...." I stopped there...smh. If you're going to speculate, at least use an intelligent guess.
./bernard On Mar 7, 2013 1:39 PM, "Dan Kwach" <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote:
http://intelligencebriefs.com/?p=3413
Not sure how accurate the above is though...I think speculation is too rife for anyone to know the exact truth..
Rgds,
Dan O.Kwach.
On 3/7/2013 10:18 AM, Bogi Benga wrote:
word round is that the system was hacked
http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/kenyan-election-2013/evans-ondieki-iebc-all...
Anyone who can shed more light on this?
On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 8:45 AM, Martin Chiteri < martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Nelson,
Thank you for your comments, they are all very sound. I just need to put something small into context:
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Adam Nelson <adam@varud.com> wrote:
> I just wanted to respond to many of the issues raised today about > the IEBC, the electronic tallying system, and about open access. As one of > the few non-Kenyans on the list (2 months in Nairobi, previously NY where I > did alot of Python work), maybe I have a unique outsiders point of view. > > Of course, this is not my election, but I it is important to the > world that Kenya has strong institutions and the duty to create and > maintain those institutions lies with everybody. > > Hardware is likely not the problem here (disk space comments aside > - which are surely do to logical, not physical errors), the problem is > multifaceted: > > On this list, there is a strong bias towards "Kenyan solutions" or > "Kenyanborn". Aside from finding this kind of offensive, it's also just > petty and backwards. The reason IEBC exists is not to support the local > ICT industry, it's to facilitate a trustworthy platform on which Kenyan > elections can take place. In addition, there are hundreds of elections a > year around the world and for Kenya to have a one-off system that has never > been used elsewhere and will never be used elsewhere is neither efficient > nor high quality. Maybe the local word processor and spreadsheet apps > should be "Kenyanborn" too? > > The general bias towards Kenyan solutions here stems from the fact that most procurements of I.T solutions, for both hardware and software by public institutions in Kenya, is tilted in favour of foreign vending companies. An assumption made is that the imported systems are of higher quality since they were "done abroad" even though this is not always the case.
The issue is that some of the systems end up being done largely by locals. The multi-nationals simply hire Kenyan developers less expensively to do the job right after being awarded the contract but maintain the figures invoiced earlier. In the end they cost a lot of money, for instance the IEBC system that attracted an invoice upwards of 100 million U.S.D. This is not too good especially to our economy's balance of payments.
What people are saying is that we can at least do half-a-decent job, that is all.
Martin.
-- .... And now for something completely different: ``A radioactive cat has 18 half-lives.'' [ PyPy ]
> At my last job in the States, almost half the team was > non-American and that was a strength, not a weakness. We don't know what > happened at the IEBC yet, and kudos to the people working to get that data > available, but the failures here cannot be blamed on 'outsiders'. Some of > the commentary is bordering on xenophobic. > > As for openness at the code level, that would certainly be > awesome. Check out this article ( > http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/11/internet-based-and-open-source-how-e...) > and connect with the Brazilians and Australians rather than try to create a > techno-autarky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky). > > Cheers, > Adam > > https://twitter.com/varud > > > +254 712 966 801 <%2B254%20712%20966%20801> > https://twitter.com/varud > https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson > > > On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Bwana Lawi <mail2lawi@gmail.com>wrote: > >> Cool, we have made up. Hugs and shoulder pats. >> >> Can we get back to the issue at hand now? >> >> :) >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com>wrote: >> >>> Then I wish you had said that to begin with sans the knee jerk >>> reaction. >>> >>> I absolutely agree with you about the opening up of the >>> software, and not just that - the processes and procedures >>> followed by all the people in the chain >>> >>> >>> On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Bernard Owuor wrote: >>> >>>> Skunks, >>>> If I knew that this windows-vs-linux thing was so emotive, I'd >>>> have skipped it totally. >>>> >>>> It is really obscuring the point I'm trying to make - which is - opening >>>> up softwares built in the public interest - not just to strengthen >>>> the systems, but also to foster confidence among the varioius >>>> stake-holders. >>>> >>>> @Steve, you're really in agreement with me. We're all >>>> speculating, so treat my "windows 8 server" bashing as just that. Just >>>> between you and me, I know that mysql would complain thus in a Linux system >>>> if it ran out of disk space - because Linux stores locks on the disk. I >>>> didn't know the same happened in windows too. But hey, we're free to >>>> speculate in the absence of information. >>>> >>>> @Rad, a bad workman 'quarrels' with his tool. Most of those who >>>> 'blame' their tools seldom work, thus they don't qualify to be called >>>> workmen of any type.... A good workman selects the right tool for the job. >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> *From:* Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> >>>> *To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> >>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:14 PM >>>> >>>> *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems >>>> >>>> See? The last bastion of "professionals" >>>> >>>> And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows. >>>> >>>> Bad craftsmen blame their tools >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote: >>>> >>>> Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical system? >>>> SMDH!!! >>>> >>>> ---- >>>> >>>> Kind Regards, >>>> >>>> Alex Nyalita >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki < >>>> patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when you've got >>>> all the time in the world; >>>> 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no idea) >>>> 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error message) >>>> 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of possible >>>> assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages you've had >>>> with different production systems) >>>> 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give free >>>> advise, we know they're reading this - wait, isn't someone >>>> getting paid to do all these??) >>>> >>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru < >>>> bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of >>>> lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, >>>> get-your-hands-dirty experience. >>>> What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential design >>>> flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. Whiteafrican >>>> has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting elements. >>>> We can use that for starters. >>>> http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ >>>> ./bernard >>>> On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" < >>>> techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> It's our professional duty and responsibility to question this. >>>> In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and inasmuch as we >>>> acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it under the carpet >>>> and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain irresponsible. >>>> >>>> Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, even >>>> clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client paying >>>> 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who undercut >>>> us. >>>> >>>> Anyway, back to issue at hand. >>>> >>>> @Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a proper >>>> voting >>>> >>>> @Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With >>>> screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had >>>> already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the >>>> failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the >>>> data is already at IEBC servers? >>>> What would be the technological reason for the system to stop >>>> processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is being >>>> done by google from IEBC servers. >>>> >>>> So what exactly is failing? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki < >>>> shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear Skunks, >>>> Pole for the delay in results. >>>> These are the kind of things that make people suspicious and not >>>> trust local ICT professionals. >>>> The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. All they >>>> know is that 9b of their money was spent >>>> on the systems. >>>> The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that they can >>>> be managed by a powerful desk top on any >>>> relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent submission of >>>> results because all that is need is a good queue >>>> management algorith. >>>> A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from polling >>>> stations >>>> As have al >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> skunkworks mailing list >>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>> ------------ >>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>> ------------ >>> >>> Skunkworks Rules >>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>> ------------ >>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> skunkworks mailing list >> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >> ------------ >> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >> ------------ >> >> Skunkworks Rules >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >> ------------ >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >> > > > _______________________________________________ > skunkworks mailing list > skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > ------------ > List info, subscribe/unsubscribe > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
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-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 "I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler."
@ Wash, Open Data. we lead , others follow. Best Regards On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 3:36 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>wrote:
We have "moved on"!
In one of todays dailies, UNDP offered to fund the audit of IEBC systems on condition that IEBC allows an outside body to participate in the audit process. Guess what? IEBC has refused and only want to audit itself internally. So why worry about what went wrong anyway? Perhaps we need to go to court to seek authority for external audit of IEBC, funded by UNDP of course. I can bet 100% that none of us really cares about that! Prove me wrong.
On 16 April 2013 15:01, Martin Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote:
I was hoping someone would post or comment on this link here: http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000081518&story_title=Kenya--IT-a...
Martin.
On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 2:04 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>wrote:
Heheee.. It's not only Western Media. Some Kenyan bloggers keen on being very controversial and very nasty have it too.. Check out our own (Kenya's) Robert Alai doing his verbal diarrhea here -> http://lix.in/-c9fe46
On 7 March 2013 13:59, Dan Kwach <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote:
@ Wash...
Wewe...heshimu Western media...the guys know thea stuff... :-D
Dan O.Kwach.
On 3/7/2013 1:48 PM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
+1
It's the first time I heard on a p2p VPN requiring a RDBMs to run:-)
On 7 March 2013 13:44, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote:
"The Safaricom Virtual Private Network that runs on Oracle ...." I stopped there...smh. If you're going to speculate, at least use an intelligent guess.
./bernard On Mar 7, 2013 1:39 PM, "Dan Kwach" <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote:
http://intelligencebriefs.com/?p=3413
Not sure how accurate the above is though...I think speculation is too rife for anyone to know the exact truth..
Rgds,
Dan O.Kwach.
On 3/7/2013 10:18 AM, Bogi Benga wrote:
word round is that the system was hacked
http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/kenyan-election-2013/evans-ondieki-iebc-all...
Anyone who can shed more light on this?
On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 8:45 AM, Martin Chiteri < martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Nelson, > > Thank you for your comments, they are all very sound. I just need > to put something small into context: > > On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Adam Nelson <adam@varud.com> wrote: > >> I just wanted to respond to many of the issues raised today about >> the IEBC, the electronic tallying system, and about open access. As one of >> the few non-Kenyans on the list (2 months in Nairobi, previously NY where I >> did alot of Python work), maybe I have a unique outsiders point of view. >> >> Of course, this is not my election, but I it is important to the >> world that Kenya has strong institutions and the duty to create and >> maintain those institutions lies with everybody. >> >> Hardware is likely not the problem here (disk space comments >> aside - which are surely do to logical, not physical errors), the problem >> is multifaceted: >> >> On this list, there is a strong bias towards "Kenyan solutions" >> or "Kenyanborn". Aside from finding this kind of offensive, it's also just >> petty and backwards. The reason IEBC exists is not to support the local >> ICT industry, it's to facilitate a trustworthy platform on which Kenyan >> elections can take place. In addition, there are hundreds of elections a >> year around the world and for Kenya to have a one-off system that has never >> been used elsewhere and will never be used elsewhere is neither efficient >> nor high quality. Maybe the local word processor and spreadsheet apps >> should be "Kenyanborn" too? >> >> > The general bias towards Kenyan solutions here stems from the fact > that most procurements of I.T solutions, for both hardware and software by > public institutions in Kenya, is tilted in favour of foreign vending > companies. An assumption made is that the imported systems are of higher > quality since they were "done abroad" even though this is not always the > case. > > The issue is that some of the systems end up being done largely by > locals. The multi-nationals simply hire Kenyan developers less expensively > to do the job right after being awarded the contract but maintain the > figures invoiced earlier. In the end they cost a lot of money, for instance > the IEBC system that attracted an invoice upwards of 100 million U.S.D. > This is not too good especially to our economy's balance of payments. > > What people are saying is that we can at least do half-a-decent > job, that is all. > > Martin. > > -- > .... And now for something completely different: ``A radioactive cat > has 18 half-lives.'' [ PyPy ] > > > >> At my last job in the States, almost half the team was >> non-American and that was a strength, not a weakness. We don't know what >> happened at the IEBC yet, and kudos to the people working to get that data >> available, but the failures here cannot be blamed on 'outsiders'. Some of >> the commentary is bordering on xenophobic. >> >> As for openness at the code level, that would certainly be >> awesome. Check out this article ( >> http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/11/internet-based-and-open-source-how-e...) >> and connect with the Brazilians and Australians rather than try to create a >> techno-autarky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky). >> >> Cheers, >> Adam >> >> https://twitter.com/varud >> >> >> +254 712 966 801 <%2B254%20712%20966%20801> >> https://twitter.com/varud >> https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Bwana Lawi <mail2lawi@gmail.com>wrote: >> >>> Cool, we have made up. Hugs and shoulder pats. >>> >>> Can we get back to the issue at hand now? >>> >>> :) >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com>wrote: >>> >>>> Then I wish you had said that to begin with sans the knee jerk >>>> reaction. >>>> >>>> I absolutely agree with you about the opening up of the >>>> software, and not just that - the processes and procedures >>>> followed by all the people in the chain >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Bernard Owuor wrote: >>>> >>>>> Skunks, >>>>> If I knew that this windows-vs-linux thing was so emotive, I'd >>>>> have skipped it totally. >>>>> >>>>> It is really obscuring the point I'm trying to make - which is - opening >>>>> up softwares built in the public interest - not just to strengthen >>>>> the systems, but also to foster confidence among the varioius >>>>> stake-holders. >>>>> >>>>> @Steve, you're really in agreement with me. We're all >>>>> speculating, so treat my "windows 8 server" bashing as just that. Just >>>>> between you and me, I know that mysql would complain thus in a Linux system >>>>> if it ran out of disk space - because Linux stores locks on the disk. I >>>>> didn't know the same happened in windows too. But hey, we're free to >>>>> speculate in the absence of information. >>>>> >>>>> @Rad, a bad workman 'quarrels' with his tool. Most of those who >>>>> 'blame' their tools seldom work, thus they don't qualify to be called >>>>> workmen of any type.... A good workman selects the right tool for the job. >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> *From:* Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> >>>>> *To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> >>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:14 PM >>>>> >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems >>>>> >>>>> See? The last bastion of "professionals" >>>>> >>>>> And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows. >>>>> >>>>> Bad craftsmen blame their tools >>>>> >>>>> On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical system? >>>>> SMDH!!! >>>>> >>>>> ---- >>>>> >>>>> Kind Regards, >>>>> >>>>> Alex Nyalita >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki < >>>>> patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when you've got >>>>> all the time in the world; >>>>> 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no idea) >>>>> 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error message) >>>>> 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of possible >>>>> assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages you've had >>>>> with different production systems) >>>>> 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give free >>>>> advise, we know they're reading this - wait, isn't someone >>>>> getting paid to do all these??) >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru < >>>>> bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of >>>>> lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, >>>>> get-your-hands-dirty experience. >>>>> What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential design >>>>> flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. Whiteafrican >>>>> has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting elements. >>>>> We can use that for starters. >>>>> http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ >>>>> ./bernard >>>>> On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" < >>>>> techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> It's our professional duty and responsibility to question >>>>> this. In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and inasmuch as we >>>>> acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it under the carpet >>>>> and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain irresponsible. >>>>> >>>>> Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, even >>>>> clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client paying >>>>> 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who undercut >>>>> us. >>>>> >>>>> Anyway, back to issue at hand. >>>>> >>>>> @Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a proper >>>>> voting >>>>> >>>>> @Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With >>>>> screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had >>>>> already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the >>>>> failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the >>>>> data is already at IEBC servers? >>>>> What would be the technological reason for the system to stop >>>>> processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is being >>>>> done by google from IEBC servers. >>>>> >>>>> So what exactly is failing? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki < >>>>> shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Dear Skunks, >>>>> Pole for the delay in results. >>>>> These are the kind of things that make people suspicious and not >>>>> trust local ICT professionals. >>>>> The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. All >>>>> they know is that 9b of their money was spent >>>>> on the systems. >>>>> The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that they >>>>> can be managed by a powerful desk top on any >>>>> relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent submission >>>>> of results because all that is need is a good queue >>>>> management algorith. >>>>> A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from >>>>> polling stations >>>>> As have al >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>> ------------ >>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>> ------------ >>>> >>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>> ------------ >>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> skunkworks mailing list >>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>> ------------ >>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>> ------------ >>> >>> Skunkworks Rules >>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>> ------------ >>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> skunkworks mailing list >> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >> ------------ >> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >> ------------ >> >> Skunkworks Rules >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >> ------------ >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >> > > > _______________________________________________ > skunkworks mailing list > skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > ------------ > List info, subscribe/unsubscribe > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
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This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. *Kenya Data Networks,* *Tel: +254(20)5000000,* *www.kdn.co.ke*
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-- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/
@Wash, On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 3:36 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>wrote:
We have "moved on"!
In one of todays dailies, UNDP offered to fund the audit of IEBC systems on condition that IEBC allows an outside body to participate in the audit process. Guess what? IEBC has refused and only want to audit itself internally. So why worry about what went wrong anyway? Perhaps we need to go to court to seek authority for external audit of IEBC, funded by UNDP of course. I can bet 100% that none of us really cares about that! Prove me wrong.
I refuse! :-)
Martin.
On 16 April 2013 15:01, Martin Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote:
I was hoping someone would post or comment on this link here: http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000081518&story_title=Kenya--IT-a...
Martin.
On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 2:04 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>wrote:
Heheee.. It's not only Western Media. Some Kenyan bloggers keen on being very controversial and very nasty have it too.. Check out our own (Kenya's) Robert Alai doing his verbal diarrhea here -> http://lix.in/-c9fe46
On 7 March 2013 13:59, Dan Kwach <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote:
@ Wash...
Wewe...heshimu Western media...the guys know thea stuff... :-D
Dan O.Kwach.
On 3/7/2013 1:48 PM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
+1
It's the first time I heard on a p2p VPN requiring a RDBMs to run:-)
On 7 March 2013 13:44, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote:
"The Safaricom Virtual Private Network that runs on Oracle ...." I stopped there...smh. If you're going to speculate, at least use an intelligent guess.
./bernard On Mar 7, 2013 1:39 PM, "Dan Kwach" <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote:
http://intelligencebriefs.com/?p=3413
Not sure how accurate the above is though...I think speculation is too rife for anyone to know the exact truth..
Rgds,
Dan O.Kwach.
On 3/7/2013 10:18 AM, Bogi Benga wrote:
word round is that the system was hacked
http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/kenyan-election-2013/evans-ondieki-iebc-all...
Anyone who can shed more light on this?
On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 8:45 AM, Martin Chiteri < martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Nelson, > > Thank you for your comments, they are all very sound. I just need > to put something small into context: > > On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Adam Nelson <adam@varud.com> wrote: > >> I just wanted to respond to many of the issues raised today about >> the IEBC, the electronic tallying system, and about open access. As one of >> the few non-Kenyans on the list (2 months in Nairobi, previously NY where I >> did alot of Python work), maybe I have a unique outsiders point of view. >> >> Of course, this is not my election, but I it is important to the >> world that Kenya has strong institutions and the duty to create and >> maintain those institutions lies with everybody. >> >> Hardware is likely not the problem here (disk space comments >> aside - which are surely do to logical, not physical errors), the problem >> is multifaceted: >> >> On this list, there is a strong bias towards "Kenyan solutions" >> or "Kenyanborn". Aside from finding this kind of offensive, it's also just >> petty and backwards. The reason IEBC exists is not to support the local >> ICT industry, it's to facilitate a trustworthy platform on which Kenyan >> elections can take place. In addition, there are hundreds of elections a >> year around the world and for Kenya to have a one-off system that has never >> been used elsewhere and will never be used elsewhere is neither efficient >> nor high quality. Maybe the local word processor and spreadsheet apps >> should be "Kenyanborn" too? >> >> > The general bias towards Kenyan solutions here stems from the fact > that most procurements of I.T solutions, for both hardware and software by > public institutions in Kenya, is tilted in favour of foreign vending > companies. An assumption made is that the imported systems are of higher > quality since they were "done abroad" even though this is not always the > case. > > The issue is that some of the systems end up being done largely by > locals. The multi-nationals simply hire Kenyan developers less expensively > to do the job right after being awarded the contract but maintain the > figures invoiced earlier. In the end they cost a lot of money, for instance > the IEBC system that attracted an invoice upwards of 100 million U.S.D. > This is not too good especially to our economy's balance of payments. > > What people are saying is that we can at least do half-a-decent > job, that is all. > > Martin. > > -- > .... And now for something completely different: ``A radioactive cat > has 18 half-lives.'' [ PyPy ] > > > >> At my last job in the States, almost half the team was >> non-American and that was a strength, not a weakness. We don't know what >> happened at the IEBC yet, and kudos to the people working to get that data >> available, but the failures here cannot be blamed on 'outsiders'. Some of >> the commentary is bordering on xenophobic. >> >> As for openness at the code level, that would certainly be >> awesome. Check out this article ( >> http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/11/internet-based-and-open-source-how-e...) >> and connect with the Brazilians and Australians rather than try to create a >> techno-autarky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky). >> >> Cheers, >> Adam >> >> https://twitter.com/varud >> >> >> +254 712 966 801 <%2B254%20712%20966%20801> >> https://twitter.com/varud >> https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Bwana Lawi <mail2lawi@gmail.com>wrote: >> >>> Cool, we have made up. Hugs and shoulder pats. >>> >>> Can we get back to the issue at hand now? >>> >>> :) >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com>wrote: >>> >>>> Then I wish you had said that to begin with sans the knee jerk >>>> reaction. >>>> >>>> I absolutely agree with you about the opening up of the >>>> software, and not just that - the processes and procedures >>>> followed by all the people in the chain >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Bernard Owuor wrote: >>>> >>>>> Skunks, >>>>> If I knew that this windows-vs-linux thing was so emotive, I'd >>>>> have skipped it totally. >>>>> >>>>> It is really obscuring the point I'm trying to make - which is - opening >>>>> up softwares built in the public interest - not just to strengthen >>>>> the systems, but also to foster confidence among the varioius >>>>> stake-holders. >>>>> >>>>> @Steve, you're really in agreement with me. We're all >>>>> speculating, so treat my "windows 8 server" bashing as just that. Just >>>>> between you and me, I know that mysql would complain thus in a Linux system >>>>> if it ran out of disk space - because Linux stores locks on the disk. I >>>>> didn't know the same happened in windows too. But hey, we're free to >>>>> speculate in the absence of information. >>>>> >>>>> @Rad, a bad workman 'quarrels' with his tool. Most of those who >>>>> 'blame' their tools seldom work, thus they don't qualify to be called >>>>> workmen of any type.... A good workman selects the right tool for the job. >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> *From:* Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> >>>>> *To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> >>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:14 PM >>>>> >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems >>>>> >>>>> See? The last bastion of "professionals" >>>>> >>>>> And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows. >>>>> >>>>> Bad craftsmen blame their tools >>>>> >>>>> On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical system? >>>>> SMDH!!! >>>>> >>>>> ---- >>>>> >>>>> Kind Regards, >>>>> >>>>> Alex Nyalita >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki < >>>>> patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when you've got >>>>> all the time in the world; >>>>> 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no idea) >>>>> 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error message) >>>>> 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of possible >>>>> assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages you've had >>>>> with different production systems) >>>>> 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give free >>>>> advise, we know they're reading this - wait, isn't someone >>>>> getting paid to do all these??) >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru < >>>>> bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of >>>>> lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, >>>>> get-your-hands-dirty experience. >>>>> What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential design >>>>> flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. Whiteafrican >>>>> has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting elements. >>>>> We can use that for starters. >>>>> http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ >>>>> ./bernard >>>>> On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" < >>>>> techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> It's our professional duty and responsibility to question >>>>> this. In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and inasmuch as we >>>>> acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it under the carpet >>>>> and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain irresponsible. >>>>> >>>>> Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, even >>>>> clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client paying >>>>> 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who undercut >>>>> us. >>>>> >>>>> Anyway, back to issue at hand. >>>>> >>>>> @Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a proper >>>>> voting >>>>> >>>>> @Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With >>>>> screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had >>>>> already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the >>>>> failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the >>>>> data is already at IEBC servers? >>>>> What would be the technological reason for the system to stop >>>>> processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is being >>>>> done by google from IEBC servers. >>>>> >>>>> So what exactly is failing? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki < >>>>> shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Dear Skunks, >>>>> Pole for the delay in results. >>>>> These are the kind of things that make people suspicious and not >>>>> trust local ICT professionals. >>>>> The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. All >>>>> they know is that 9b of their money was spent >>>>> on the systems. >>>>> The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that they >>>>> can be managed by a powerful desk top on any >>>>> relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent submission >>>>> of results because all that is need is a good queue >>>>> management algorith. >>>>> A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from >>>>> polling stations >>>>> As have al >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>> ------------ >>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>> ------------ >>>> >>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>> ------------ >>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> skunkworks mailing list >>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>> ------------ >>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>> ------------ >>> >>> Skunkworks Rules >>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>> ------------ >>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> skunkworks mailing list >> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >> ------------ >> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >> ------------ >> >> Skunkworks Rules >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >> ------------ >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >> > > > _______________________________________________ > skunkworks mailing list > skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > ------------ > List info, subscribe/unsubscribe > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
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Haiya! You go to court. Small advise though - Okiya Okoiti Omtatah may be willing to accompany you. On 16 April 2013 16:15, Martin Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote:
@Wash,
On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 3:36 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>wrote:
We have "moved on"!
In one of todays dailies, UNDP offered to fund the audit of IEBC systems on condition that IEBC allows an outside body to participate in the audit process. Guess what? IEBC has refused and only want to audit itself internally. So why worry about what went wrong anyway? Perhaps we need to go to court to seek authority for external audit of IEBC, funded by UNDP of course. I can bet 100% that none of us really cares about that! Prove me wrong.
I refuse! :-)
Martin.
On 16 April 2013 15:01, Martin Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote:
I was hoping someone would post or comment on this link here: http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000081518&story_title=Kenya--IT-a...
Martin.
On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 2:04 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>wrote:
Heheee.. It's not only Western Media. Some Kenyan bloggers keen on being very controversial and very nasty have it too.. Check out our own (Kenya's) Robert Alai doing his verbal diarrhea here -> http://lix.in/-c9fe46
On 7 March 2013 13:59, Dan Kwach <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote:
@ Wash...
Wewe...heshimu Western media...the guys know thea stuff... :-D
Dan O.Kwach.
On 3/7/2013 1:48 PM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
+1
It's the first time I heard on a p2p VPN requiring a RDBMs to run:-)
On 7 March 2013 13:44, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote:
"The Safaricom Virtual Private Network that runs on Oracle ...." I stopped there...smh. If you're going to speculate, at least use an intelligent guess.
./bernard On Mar 7, 2013 1:39 PM, "Dan Kwach" <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote:
> http://intelligencebriefs.com/?p=3413 > > Not sure how accurate the above is though...I think speculation is > too rife for anyone to know the exact truth.. > > Rgds, > > Dan O.Kwach. > > On 3/7/2013 10:18 AM, Bogi Benga wrote: > > word round is that the system was hacked > > > http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/kenyan-election-2013/evans-ondieki-iebc-all... > > Anyone who can shed more light on this? > > On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 8:45 AM, Martin Chiteri < > martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi Nelson, >> >> Thank you for your comments, they are all very sound. I just need >> to put something small into context: >> >> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Adam Nelson <adam@varud.com>wrote: >> >>> I just wanted to respond to many of the issues raised today >>> about the IEBC, the electronic tallying system, and about open access. As >>> one of the few non-Kenyans on the list (2 months in Nairobi, previously NY >>> where I did alot of Python work), maybe I have a unique outsiders point of >>> view. >>> >>> Of course, this is not my election, but I it is important to the >>> world that Kenya has strong institutions and the duty to create and >>> maintain those institutions lies with everybody. >>> >>> Hardware is likely not the problem here (disk space comments >>> aside - which are surely do to logical, not physical errors), the problem >>> is multifaceted: >>> >>> On this list, there is a strong bias towards "Kenyan solutions" >>> or "Kenyanborn". Aside from finding this kind of offensive, it's also just >>> petty and backwards. The reason IEBC exists is not to support the local >>> ICT industry, it's to facilitate a trustworthy platform on which Kenyan >>> elections can take place. In addition, there are hundreds of elections a >>> year around the world and for Kenya to have a one-off system that has never >>> been used elsewhere and will never be used elsewhere is neither efficient >>> nor high quality. Maybe the local word processor and spreadsheet apps >>> should be "Kenyanborn" too? >>> >>> >> The general bias towards Kenyan solutions here stems from the >> fact that most procurements of I.T solutions, for both hardware and >> software by public institutions in Kenya, is tilted in favour of foreign >> vending companies. An assumption made is that the imported systems are of >> higher quality since they were "done abroad" even though this is not always >> the case. >> >> The issue is that some of the systems end up being done largely >> by locals. The multi-nationals simply hire Kenyan developers less >> expensively to do the job right after being awarded the contract but >> maintain the figures invoiced earlier. In the end they cost a lot of money, >> for instance the IEBC system that attracted an invoice upwards of 100 >> million U.S.D. This is not too good especially to our economy's balance of >> payments. >> >> What people are saying is that we can at least do half-a-decent >> job, that is all. >> >> Martin. >> >> -- >> .... And now for something completely different: ``A radioactive >> cat has 18 half-lives.'' [ PyPy ] >> >> >> >>> At my last job in the States, almost half the team was >>> non-American and that was a strength, not a weakness. We don't know what >>> happened at the IEBC yet, and kudos to the people working to get that data >>> available, but the failures here cannot be blamed on 'outsiders'. Some of >>> the commentary is bordering on xenophobic. >>> >>> As for openness at the code level, that would certainly be >>> awesome. Check out this article ( >>> http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/11/internet-based-and-open-source-how-e...) >>> and connect with the Brazilians and Australians rather than try to create a >>> techno-autarky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky). >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Adam >>> >>> https://twitter.com/varud >>> >>> >>> +254 712 966 801 <%2B254%20712%20966%20801> >>> https://twitter.com/varud >>> https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Bwana Lawi <mail2lawi@gmail.com>wrote: >>> >>>> Cool, we have made up. Hugs and shoulder pats. >>>> >>>> Can we get back to the issue at hand now? >>>> >>>> :) >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com>wrote: >>>> >>>>> Then I wish you had said that to begin with sans the knee jerk >>>>> reaction. >>>>> >>>>> I absolutely agree with you about the opening up of the >>>>> software, and not just that - the processes and procedures >>>>> followed by all the people in the chain >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Bernard Owuor wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Skunks, >>>>>> If I knew that this windows-vs-linux thing was so emotive, I'd >>>>>> have skipped it totally. >>>>>> >>>>>> It is really obscuring the point I'm trying to make - which is >>>>>> - opening up softwares built in the public interest - not just >>>>>> to strengthen the systems, but also to foster confidence among >>>>>> the varioius stake-holders. >>>>>> >>>>>> @Steve, you're really in agreement with me. We're all >>>>>> speculating, so treat my "windows 8 server" bashing as just that. Just >>>>>> between you and me, I know that mysql would complain thus in a Linux system >>>>>> if it ran out of disk space - because Linux stores locks on the disk. I >>>>>> didn't know the same happened in windows too. But hey, we're free to >>>>>> speculate in the absence of information. >>>>>> >>>>>> @Rad, a bad workman 'quarrels' with his tool. Most of those >>>>>> who 'blame' their tools seldom work, thus they don't qualify to be called >>>>>> workmen of any type.... A good workman selects the right tool for the job. >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>> *From:* Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> >>>>>> *To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> >>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:14 PM >>>>>> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems >>>>>> >>>>>> See? The last bastion of "professionals" >>>>>> >>>>>> And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows. >>>>>> >>>>>> Bad craftsmen blame their tools >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical system? >>>>>> SMDH!!! >>>>>> >>>>>> ---- >>>>>> >>>>>> Kind Regards, >>>>>> >>>>>> Alex Nyalita >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki < >>>>>> patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when you've got >>>>>> all the time in the world; >>>>>> 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no idea) >>>>>> 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error message) >>>>>> 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of possible >>>>>> assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages you've had >>>>>> with different production systems) >>>>>> 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give free >>>>>> advise, we know they're reading this - wait, isn't someone >>>>>> getting paid to do all these??) >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru < >>>>>> bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of >>>>>> lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, >>>>>> get-your-hands-dirty experience. >>>>>> What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential >>>>>> design flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. >>>>>> Whiteafrican has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting >>>>>> elements. >>>>>> We can use that for starters. >>>>>> http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ >>>>>> ./bernard >>>>>> On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" < >>>>>> techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> It's our professional duty and responsibility to question >>>>>> this. In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and inasmuch as we >>>>>> acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it under the carpet >>>>>> and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain irresponsible. >>>>>> >>>>>> Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, even >>>>>> clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client paying >>>>>> 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who undercut >>>>>> us. >>>>>> >>>>>> Anyway, back to issue at hand. >>>>>> >>>>>> @Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a proper >>>>>> voting >>>>>> >>>>>> @Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With >>>>>> screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had >>>>>> already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the >>>>>> failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the >>>>>> data is already at IEBC servers? >>>>>> What would be the technological reason for the system to stop >>>>>> processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is being >>>>>> done by google from IEBC servers. >>>>>> >>>>>> So what exactly is failing? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki < >>>>>> shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear Skunks, >>>>>> Pole for the delay in results. >>>>>> These are the kind of things that make people suspicious and >>>>>> not trust local ICT professionals. >>>>>> The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. All >>>>>> they know is that 9b of their money was spent >>>>>> on the systems. >>>>>> The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that they >>>>>> can be managed by a powerful desk top on any >>>>>> relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent submission >>>>>> of results because all that is need is a good queue >>>>>> management algorith. >>>>>> A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from >>>>>> polling stations >>>>>> As have al >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>> ------------ >>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>> ------------ >>>>> >>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>> ------------ >>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>> ------------ >>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>> ------------ >>>> >>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>> ------------ >>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> skunkworks mailing list >>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>> ------------ >>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>> ------------ >>> >>> Skunkworks Rules >>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>> ------------ >>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> skunkworks mailing list >> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >> ------------ >> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >> ------------ >> >> Skunkworks Rules >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >> ------------ >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > skunkworks mailing listskunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > ------------ > List info, subscribe/unsubscribehttp://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > > Skunkworks Ruleshttp://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke > > > > This message contains confidential information and is intended only > for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not > disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender > immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and > delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be > guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, > corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. > The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions > in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail > transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy > version. > *Kenya Data Networks,* *Tel: +254(20)5000000,* *www.kdn.co.ke* > > _______________________________________________ > skunkworks mailing list > skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > ------------ > List info, subscribe/unsubscribe > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
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-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
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This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. *Kenya Data Networks,* *Tel: +254(20)5000000,* *www.kdn.co.ke*
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-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
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-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 "I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler."
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-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 "I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler."
On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 4:25 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>wrote:
Haiya! You go to court. Small advise though - Okiya Okoiti Omtatah may be willing to accompany you.
Actually I meant, "I refuse ...... to prove you wrong.". And as you said, people have moved on.
Martin.
On 16 April 2013 16:15, Martin Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote:
@Wash,
On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 3:36 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>wrote:
We have "moved on"!
In one of todays dailies, UNDP offered to fund the audit of IEBC systems on condition that IEBC allows an outside body to participate in the audit process. Guess what? IEBC has refused and only want to audit itself internally. So why worry about what went wrong anyway? Perhaps we need to go to court to seek authority for external audit of IEBC, funded by UNDP of course. I can bet 100% that none of us really cares about that! Prove me wrong.
I refuse! :-)
Martin.
On 16 April 2013 15:01, Martin Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote:
I was hoping someone would post or comment on this link here: http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000081518&story_title=Kenya--IT-a...
Martin.
On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 2:04 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com
wrote:
Heheee.. It's not only Western Media. Some Kenyan bloggers keen on being very controversial and very nasty have it too.. Check out our own (Kenya's) Robert Alai doing his verbal diarrhea here -> http://lix.in/-c9fe46
On 7 March 2013 13:59, Dan Kwach <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote:
@ Wash...
Wewe...heshimu Western media...the guys know thea stuff... :-D
Dan O.Kwach.
On 3/7/2013 1:48 PM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
+1
It's the first time I heard on a p2p VPN requiring a RDBMs to run:-)
On 7 March 2013 13:44, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote:
> "The Safaricom Virtual Private Network that runs on Oracle ...." > I stopped there...smh. > If you're going to speculate, at least use an intelligent guess. > > ./bernard > On Mar 7, 2013 1:39 PM, "Dan Kwach" <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote: > >> http://intelligencebriefs.com/?p=3413 >> >> Not sure how accurate the above is though...I think speculation is >> too rife for anyone to know the exact truth.. >> >> Rgds, >> >> Dan O.Kwach. >> >> On 3/7/2013 10:18 AM, Bogi Benga wrote: >> >> word round is that the system was hacked >> >> >> http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/kenyan-election-2013/evans-ondieki-iebc-all... >> >> Anyone who can shed more light on this? >> >> On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 8:45 AM, Martin Chiteri < >> martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Hi Nelson, >>> >>> Thank you for your comments, they are all very sound. I just >>> need to put something small into context: >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Adam Nelson <adam@varud.com>wrote: >>> >>>> I just wanted to respond to many of the issues raised today >>>> about the IEBC, the electronic tallying system, and about open access. As >>>> one of the few non-Kenyans on the list (2 months in Nairobi, previously NY >>>> where I did alot of Python work), maybe I have a unique outsiders point of >>>> view. >>>> >>>> Of course, this is not my election, but I it is important to >>>> the world that Kenya has strong institutions and the duty to create and >>>> maintain those institutions lies with everybody. >>>> >>>> Hardware is likely not the problem here (disk space comments >>>> aside - which are surely do to logical, not physical errors), the problem >>>> is multifaceted: >>>> >>>> On this list, there is a strong bias towards "Kenyan solutions" >>>> or "Kenyanborn". Aside from finding this kind of offensive, it's also just >>>> petty and backwards. The reason IEBC exists is not to support the local >>>> ICT industry, it's to facilitate a trustworthy platform on which Kenyan >>>> elections can take place. In addition, there are hundreds of elections a >>>> year around the world and for Kenya to have a one-off system that has never >>>> been used elsewhere and will never be used elsewhere is neither efficient >>>> nor high quality. Maybe the local word processor and spreadsheet apps >>>> should be "Kenyanborn" too? >>>> >>>> >>> The general bias towards Kenyan solutions here stems from the >>> fact that most procurements of I.T solutions, for both hardware and >>> software by public institutions in Kenya, is tilted in favour of foreign >>> vending companies. An assumption made is that the imported systems are of >>> higher quality since they were "done abroad" even though this is not always >>> the case. >>> >>> The issue is that some of the systems end up being done largely >>> by locals. The multi-nationals simply hire Kenyan developers less >>> expensively to do the job right after being awarded the contract but >>> maintain the figures invoiced earlier. In the end they cost a lot of money, >>> for instance the IEBC system that attracted an invoice upwards of 100 >>> million U.S.D. This is not too good especially to our economy's balance of >>> payments. >>> >>> What people are saying is that we can at least do half-a-decent >>> job, that is all. >>> >>> Martin. >>> >>> -- >>> .... And now for something completely different: ``A radioactive >>> cat has 18 half-lives.'' [ PyPy ] >>> >>> >>> >>>> At my last job in the States, almost half the team was >>>> non-American and that was a strength, not a weakness. We don't know what >>>> happened at the IEBC yet, and kudos to the people working to get that data >>>> available, but the failures here cannot be blamed on 'outsiders'. Some of >>>> the commentary is bordering on xenophobic. >>>> >>>> As for openness at the code level, that would certainly be >>>> awesome. Check out this article ( >>>> http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/11/internet-based-and-open-source-how-e...) >>>> and connect with the Brazilians and Australians rather than try to create a >>>> techno-autarky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky). >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Adam >>>> >>>> https://twitter.com/varud >>>> >>>> >>>> +254 712 966 801 <%2B254%20712%20966%20801> >>>> https://twitter.com/varud >>>> https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Bwana Lawi <mail2lawi@gmail.com>wrote: >>>> >>>>> Cool, we have made up. Hugs and shoulder pats. >>>>> >>>>> Can we get back to the issue at hand now? >>>>> >>>>> :) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Then I wish you had said that to begin with sans the knee >>>>>> jerk reaction. >>>>>> >>>>>> I absolutely agree with you about the opening up of the >>>>>> software, and not just that - the processes and procedures >>>>>> followed by all the people in the chain >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Bernard Owuor wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Skunks, >>>>>>> If I knew that this windows-vs-linux thing was so emotive, I'd >>>>>>> have skipped it totally. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It is really obscuring the point I'm trying to make - which is >>>>>>> - opening up softwares built in the public interest - not >>>>>>> just to strengthen the systems, but also to foster confidenceamong the varioius stake-holders. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> @Steve, you're really in agreement with me. We're all >>>>>>> speculating, so treat my "windows 8 server" bashing as just that. Just >>>>>>> between you and me, I know that mysql would complain thus in a Linux system >>>>>>> if it ran out of disk space - because Linux stores locks on the disk. I >>>>>>> didn't know the same happened in windows too. But hey, we're free to >>>>>>> speculate in the absence of information. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> @Rad, a bad workman 'quarrels' with his tool. Most of those >>>>>>> who 'blame' their tools seldom work, thus they don't qualify to be called >>>>>>> workmen of any type.... A good workman selects the right tool for the job. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>> *From:* Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> >>>>>>> *To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> >>>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:14 PM >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems >>>>>>> >>>>>>> See? The last bastion of "professionals" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Bad craftsmen blame their tools >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical system? >>>>>>> SMDH!!! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ---- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Kind Regards, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Alex Nyalita >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki < >>>>>>> patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when you've >>>>>>> got all the time in the world; >>>>>>> 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no idea) >>>>>>> 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error message) >>>>>>> 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of possible >>>>>>> assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages you've had >>>>>>> with different production systems) >>>>>>> 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give free >>>>>>> advise, we know they're reading this - wait, isn't someone >>>>>>> getting paid to do all these??) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru < >>>>>>> bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of >>>>>>> lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, >>>>>>> get-your-hands-dirty experience. >>>>>>> What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential >>>>>>> design flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. >>>>>>> Whiteafrican has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting >>>>>>> elements. >>>>>>> We can use that for starters. >>>>>>> http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ >>>>>>> ./bernard >>>>>>> On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" < >>>>>>> techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It's our professional duty and responsibility to question >>>>>>> this. In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and inasmuch as we >>>>>>> acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it under the carpet >>>>>>> and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain irresponsible. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, even >>>>>>> clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client paying >>>>>>> 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who undercut >>>>>>> us. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Anyway, back to issue at hand. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> @Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a >>>>>>> proper voting >>>>>>> >>>>>>> @Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With >>>>>>> screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had >>>>>>> already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the >>>>>>> failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the >>>>>>> data is already at IEBC servers? >>>>>>> What would be the technological reason for the system to stop >>>>>>> processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is being >>>>>>> done by google from IEBC servers. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So what exactly is failing? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki < >>>>>>> shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear Skunks, >>>>>>> Pole for the delay in results. >>>>>>> These are the kind of things that make people suspicious and >>>>>>> not trust local ICT professionals. >>>>>>> The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. All >>>>>>> they know is that 9b of their money was spent >>>>>>> on the systems. >>>>>>> The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that they >>>>>>> can be managed by a powerful desk top on any >>>>>>> relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent submission >>>>>>> of results because all that is need is a good queue >>>>>>> management algorith. >>>>>>> A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from >>>>>>> polling stations >>>>>>> As have al >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>> ------------ >>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>> ------------ >>>>>> >>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>> ------------ >>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>> ------------ >>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>> ------------ >>>>> >>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>> ------------ >>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>> ------------ >>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>> ------------ >>>> >>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>> ------------ >>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> skunkworks mailing list >>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>> ------------ >>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>> ------------ >>> >>> Skunkworks Rules >>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>> ------------ >>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> skunkworks mailing listskunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >> ------------ >> List info, subscribe/unsubscribehttp://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >> ------------ >> >> Skunkworks Ruleshttp://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >> ------------ >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >> >> >> >> This message contains confidential information and is intended only >> for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not >> disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender >> immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and >> delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be >> guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, >> corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. >> The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions >> in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail >> transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy >> version. >> *Kenya Data Networks,* *Tel: +254(20)5000000,* *www.kdn.co.ke* >> >> _______________________________________________ >> skunkworks mailing list >> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >> ------------ >> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >> ------------ >> >> Skunkworks Rules >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >> ------------ >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >> > > _______________________________________________ > skunkworks mailing list > skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > ------------ > List info, subscribe/unsubscribe > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
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Hi all, Sorry, I understand that people ``moved on'' away from this topic a long time ago. Some interesting developments I bumped into recently. The sources to Estonia's E-voting system are now open: < https://github.com/vvk-ehk/evalimine > A large chunk of it is written in Python, just from a quick glance ...... O.k, actually the whole of it. Martin. On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 4:28 PM, Martin Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com>wrote:
On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 4:25 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>wrote:
Haiya! You go to court. Small advise though - Okiya Okoiti Omtatah may be willing to accompany you.
Actually I meant, "I refuse ...... to prove you wrong.". And as you said, people have moved on.
Martin.
On 16 April 2013 16:15, Martin Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote:
@Wash,
On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 3:36 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com
wrote:
We have "moved on"!
In one of todays dailies, UNDP offered to fund the audit of IEBC systems on condition that IEBC allows an outside body to participate in the audit process. Guess what? IEBC has refused and only want to audit itself internally. So why worry about what went wrong anyway? Perhaps we need to go to court to seek authority for external audit of IEBC, funded by UNDP of course. I can bet 100% that none of us really cares about that! Prove me wrong.
I refuse! :-)
Martin.
On 16 April 2013 15:01, Martin Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com>wrote:
I was hoping someone would post or comment on this link here: http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000081518&story_title=Kenya--IT-a...
Martin.
On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 2:04 PM, Odhiambo Washington < odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:
Heheee.. It's not only Western Media. Some Kenyan bloggers keen on being very controversial and very nasty have it too.. Check out our own (Kenya's) Robert Alai doing his verbal diarrhea here -> http://lix.in/-c9fe46
On 7 March 2013 13:59, Dan Kwach <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote:
> @ Wash... > > Wewe...heshimu Western media...the guys know thea stuff... :-D > > Dan O.Kwach. > > On 3/7/2013 1:48 PM, Odhiambo Washington wrote: > > +1 > > It's the first time I heard on a p2p VPN requiring a RDBMs to run:-) > > > On 7 March 2013 13:44, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote: > >> "The Safaricom Virtual Private Network that runs on Oracle ...." >> I stopped there...smh. >> If you're going to speculate, at least use an intelligent guess. >> >> ./bernard >> On Mar 7, 2013 1:39 PM, "Dan Kwach" <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote: >> >>> http://intelligencebriefs.com/?p=3413 >>> >>> Not sure how accurate the above is though...I think speculation >>> is too rife for anyone to know the exact truth.. >>> >>> Rgds, >>> >>> Dan O.Kwach. >>> >>> On 3/7/2013 10:18 AM, Bogi Benga wrote: >>> >>> word round is that the system was hacked >>> >>> >>> http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/kenyan-election-2013/evans-ondieki-iebc-all... >>> >>> Anyone who can shed more light on this? >>> >>> On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 8:45 AM, Martin Chiteri < >>> martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Nelson, >>>> >>>> Thank you for your comments, they are all very sound. I just >>>> need to put something small into context: >>>> >>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Adam Nelson <adam@varud.com>wrote: >>>> >>>>> I just wanted to respond to many of the issues raised today >>>>> about the IEBC, the electronic tallying system, and about open access. As >>>>> one of the few non-Kenyans on the list (2 months in Nairobi, previously NY >>>>> where I did alot of Python work), maybe I have a unique outsiders point of >>>>> view. >>>>> >>>>> Of course, this is not my election, but I it is important to >>>>> the world that Kenya has strong institutions and the duty to create and >>>>> maintain those institutions lies with everybody. >>>>> >>>>> Hardware is likely not the problem here (disk space comments >>>>> aside - which are surely do to logical, not physical errors), the problem >>>>> is multifaceted: >>>>> >>>>> On this list, there is a strong bias towards "Kenyan >>>>> solutions" or "Kenyanborn". Aside from finding this kind of offensive, >>>>> it's also just petty and backwards. The reason IEBC exists is not to >>>>> support the local ICT industry, it's to facilitate a trustworthy platform >>>>> on which Kenyan elections can take place. In addition, there are hundreds >>>>> of elections a year around the world and for Kenya to have a one-off system >>>>> that has never been used elsewhere and will never be used elsewhere is >>>>> neither efficient nor high quality. Maybe the local word processor and >>>>> spreadsheet apps should be "Kenyanborn" too? >>>>> >>>>> >>>> The general bias towards Kenyan solutions here stems from the >>>> fact that most procurements of I.T solutions, for both hardware and >>>> software by public institutions in Kenya, is tilted in favour of foreign >>>> vending companies. An assumption made is that the imported systems are of >>>> higher quality since they were "done abroad" even though this is not always >>>> the case. >>>> >>>> The issue is that some of the systems end up being done largely >>>> by locals. The multi-nationals simply hire Kenyan developers less >>>> expensively to do the job right after being awarded the contract but >>>> maintain the figures invoiced earlier. In the end they cost a lot of money, >>>> for instance the IEBC system that attracted an invoice upwards of 100 >>>> million U.S.D. This is not too good especially to our economy's balance of >>>> payments. >>>> >>>> What people are saying is that we can at least do half-a-decent >>>> job, that is all. >>>> >>>> Martin. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> .... And now for something completely different: ``A radioactive >>>> cat has 18 half-lives.'' [ PyPy ] >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> At my last job in the States, almost half the team was >>>>> non-American and that was a strength, not a weakness. We don't know what >>>>> happened at the IEBC yet, and kudos to the people working to get that data >>>>> available, but the failures here cannot be blamed on 'outsiders'. Some of >>>>> the commentary is bordering on xenophobic. >>>>> >>>>> As for openness at the code level, that would certainly be >>>>> awesome. Check out this article ( >>>>> http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/11/internet-based-and-open-source-how-e...) >>>>> and connect with the Brazilians and Australians rather than try to create a >>>>> techno-autarky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky). >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Adam >>>>> >>>>> https://twitter.com/varud >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> +254 712 966 801 <%2B254%20712%20966%20801> >>>>> https://twitter.com/varud >>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Bwana Lawi <mail2lawi@gmail.com>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Cool, we have made up. Hugs and shoulder pats. >>>>>> >>>>>> Can we get back to the issue at hand now? >>>>>> >>>>>> :) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com>wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Then I wish you had said that to begin with sans the knee >>>>>>> jerk reaction. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I absolutely agree with you about the opening up of the >>>>>>> software, and not just that - the processes and procedures >>>>>>> followed by all the people in the chain >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Bernard Owuor wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Skunks, >>>>>>>> If I knew that this windows-vs-linux thing was so emotive, >>>>>>>> I'd have skipped it totally. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It is really obscuring the point I'm trying to make - which >>>>>>>> is - opening up softwares built in the public interest - not >>>>>>>> just to strengthen the systems, but also to foster confidenceamong the varioius stake-holders. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> @Steve, you're really in agreement with me. We're all >>>>>>>> speculating, so treat my "windows 8 server" bashing as just that. Just >>>>>>>> between you and me, I know that mysql would complain thus in a Linux system >>>>>>>> if it ran out of disk space - because Linux stores locks on the disk. I >>>>>>>> didn't know the same happened in windows too. But hey, we're free to >>>>>>>> speculate in the absence of information. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> @Rad, a bad workman 'quarrels' with his tool. Most of those >>>>>>>> who 'blame' their tools seldom work, thus they don't qualify to be called >>>>>>>> workmen of any type.... A good workman selects the right tool for the job. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>> *From:* Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> >>>>>>>> *To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> >>>>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:14 PM >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> See? The last bastion of "professionals" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Bad craftsmen blame their tools >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical system? >>>>>>>> SMDH!!! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ---- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Kind Regards, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Alex Nyalita >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki < >>>>>>>> patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when you've >>>>>>>> got all the time in the world; >>>>>>>> 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no idea) >>>>>>>> 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error message) >>>>>>>> 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of possible >>>>>>>> assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages you've had >>>>>>>> with different production systems) >>>>>>>> 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give free >>>>>>>> advise, we know they're reading this - wait, isn't someone >>>>>>>> getting paid to do all these??) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru < >>>>>>>> bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of >>>>>>>> lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, >>>>>>>> get-your-hands-dirty experience. >>>>>>>> What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential >>>>>>>> design flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. >>>>>>>> Whiteafrican has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting >>>>>>>> elements. >>>>>>>> We can use that for starters. >>>>>>>> http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ >>>>>>>> ./bernard >>>>>>>> On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" < >>>>>>>> techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It's our professional duty and responsibility to question >>>>>>>> this. In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and inasmuch as we >>>>>>>> acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it under the carpet >>>>>>>> and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain irresponsible. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, even >>>>>>>> clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client paying >>>>>>>> 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who undercut >>>>>>>> us. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Anyway, back to issue at hand. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> @Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a >>>>>>>> proper voting >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> @Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With >>>>>>>> screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had >>>>>>>> already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the >>>>>>>> failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the >>>>>>>> data is already at IEBC servers? >>>>>>>> What would be the technological reason for the system to stop >>>>>>>> processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is being >>>>>>>> done by google from IEBC servers. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So what exactly is failing? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki < >>>>>>>> shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dear Skunks, >>>>>>>> Pole for the delay in results. >>>>>>>> These are the kind of things that make people suspicious and >>>>>>>> not trust local ICT professionals. >>>>>>>> The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. All >>>>>>>> they know is that 9b of their money was spent >>>>>>>> on the systems. >>>>>>>> The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that they >>>>>>>> can be managed by a powerful desk top on any >>>>>>>> relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent >>>>>>>> submission of results because all that is need is a good queue >>>>>>>> management algorith. >>>>>>>> A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from >>>>>>>> polling stations >>>>>>>> As have al >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>> ------------ >>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>> ------------ >>>>>> >>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>> ------------ >>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>> ------------ >>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>> ------------ >>>>> >>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>> ------------ >>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>> ------------ >>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>> ------------ >>>> >>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>> ------------ >>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> skunkworks mailing listskunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>> ------------ >>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribehttp://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>> ------------ >>> >>> Skunkworks Ruleshttp://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>> ------------ >>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>> >>> >>> >>> This message contains confidential information and is intended >>> only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you >>> should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the >>> sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake >>> and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be >>> guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, >>> corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. >>> The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions >>> in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail >>> transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy >>> version. >>> *Kenya Data Networks,* *Tel: +254(20)5000000,* *www.kdn.co.ke* >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> skunkworks mailing list >>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>> ------------ >>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>> ------------ >>> >>> Skunkworks Rules >>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>> ------------ >>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> skunkworks mailing list >> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >> ------------ >> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >> ------------ >> >> Skunkworks Rules >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >> ------------ >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Odhiambo WASHINGTON, > Nairobi,KE > +254733744121/+254722743223 > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ > I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. > > > _______________________________________________ > skunkworks mailing listskunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > ------------ > List info, subscribe/unsubscribehttp://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > > Skunkworks Ruleshttp://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke > > > > This message contains confidential information and is intended only > for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not > disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender > immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and > delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be > guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, > corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. > The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions > in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail > transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy > version. > *Kenya Data Networks,* *Tel: +254(20)5000000,* *www.kdn.co.ke* > > _______________________________________________ > skunkworks mailing list > skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > ------------ > List info, subscribe/unsubscribe > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
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Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 "I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler."
_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
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Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 "I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler."
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A person was also kind enough to write an article about it < http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/07/estonia-publishes-its-e-voting-so...
Martin. On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 10:53 PM, Martin Akolo Chiteri < martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
Sorry, I understand that people ``moved on'' away from this topic a long time ago.
Some interesting developments I bumped into recently. The sources to Estonia's E-voting system are now open: < https://github.com/vvk-ehk/evalimine >
A large chunk of it is written in Python, just from a quick glance ...... O.k, actually the whole of it.
Martin.
On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 4:28 PM, Martin Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com>wrote:
On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 4:25 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>wrote:
Haiya! You go to court. Small advise though - Okiya Okoiti Omtatah may be willing to accompany you.
Actually I meant, "I refuse ...... to prove you wrong.". And as you said, people have moved on.
Martin.
On 16 April 2013 16:15, Martin Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote:
@Wash,
On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 3:36 PM, Odhiambo Washington < odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:
We have "moved on"!
In one of todays dailies, UNDP offered to fund the audit of IEBC systems on condition that IEBC allows an outside body to participate in the audit process. Guess what? IEBC has refused and only want to audit itself internally. So why worry about what went wrong anyway? Perhaps we need to go to court to seek authority for external audit of IEBC, funded by UNDP of course. I can bet 100% that none of us really cares about that! Prove me wrong.
I refuse! :-)
Martin.
On 16 April 2013 15:01, Martin Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com>wrote:
I was hoping someone would post or comment on this link here: http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000081518&story_title=Kenya--IT-a...
Martin.
On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 2:04 PM, Odhiambo Washington < odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:
> Heheee.. It's not only Western Media. Some Kenyan bloggers keen on > being very controversial and very nasty have it too.. > Check out our own (Kenya's) Robert Alai doing his verbal diarrhea > here -> http://lix.in/-c9fe46 > > > > On 7 March 2013 13:59, Dan Kwach <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote: > >> @ Wash... >> >> Wewe...heshimu Western media...the guys know thea stuff... :-D >> >> Dan O.Kwach. >> >> On 3/7/2013 1:48 PM, Odhiambo Washington wrote: >> >> +1 >> >> It's the first time I heard on a p2p VPN requiring a RDBMs to run:-) >> >> >> On 7 March 2013 13:44, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> "The Safaricom Virtual Private Network that runs on Oracle ...." >>> I stopped there...smh. >>> If you're going to speculate, at least use an intelligent guess. >>> >>> ./bernard >>> On Mar 7, 2013 1:39 PM, "Dan Kwach" <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote: >>> >>>> http://intelligencebriefs.com/?p=3413 >>>> >>>> Not sure how accurate the above is though...I think speculation >>>> is too rife for anyone to know the exact truth.. >>>> >>>> Rgds, >>>> >>>> Dan O.Kwach. >>>> >>>> On 3/7/2013 10:18 AM, Bogi Benga wrote: >>>> >>>> word round is that the system was hacked >>>> >>>> >>>> http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/kenyan-election-2013/evans-ondieki-iebc-all... >>>> >>>> Anyone who can shed more light on this? >>>> >>>> On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 8:45 AM, Martin Chiteri < >>>> martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Nelson, >>>>> >>>>> Thank you for your comments, they are all very sound. I just >>>>> need to put something small into context: >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Adam Nelson <adam@varud.com>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I just wanted to respond to many of the issues raised today >>>>>> about the IEBC, the electronic tallying system, and about open access. As >>>>>> one of the few non-Kenyans on the list (2 months in Nairobi, previously NY >>>>>> where I did alot of Python work), maybe I have a unique outsiders point of >>>>>> view. >>>>>> >>>>>> Of course, this is not my election, but I it is important to >>>>>> the world that Kenya has strong institutions and the duty to create and >>>>>> maintain those institutions lies with everybody. >>>>>> >>>>>> Hardware is likely not the problem here (disk space comments >>>>>> aside - which are surely do to logical, not physical errors), the problem >>>>>> is multifaceted: >>>>>> >>>>>> On this list, there is a strong bias towards "Kenyan >>>>>> solutions" or "Kenyanborn". Aside from finding this kind of offensive, >>>>>> it's also just petty and backwards. The reason IEBC exists is not to >>>>>> support the local ICT industry, it's to facilitate a trustworthy platform >>>>>> on which Kenyan elections can take place. In addition, there are hundreds >>>>>> of elections a year around the world and for Kenya to have a one-off system >>>>>> that has never been used elsewhere and will never be used elsewhere is >>>>>> neither efficient nor high quality. Maybe the local word processor and >>>>>> spreadsheet apps should be "Kenyanborn" too? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> The general bias towards Kenyan solutions here stems from the >>>>> fact that most procurements of I.T solutions, for both hardware and >>>>> software by public institutions in Kenya, is tilted in favour of foreign >>>>> vending companies. An assumption made is that the imported systems are of >>>>> higher quality since they were "done abroad" even though this is not always >>>>> the case. >>>>> >>>>> The issue is that some of the systems end up being done >>>>> largely by locals. The multi-nationals simply hire Kenyan developers less >>>>> expensively to do the job right after being awarded the contract but >>>>> maintain the figures invoiced earlier. In the end they cost a lot of money, >>>>> for instance the IEBC system that attracted an invoice upwards of 100 >>>>> million U.S.D. This is not too good especially to our economy's balance of >>>>> payments. >>>>> >>>>> What people are saying is that we can at least do >>>>> half-a-decent job, that is all. >>>>> >>>>> Martin. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> .... And now for something completely different: ``A radioactive >>>>> cat has 18 half-lives.'' [ PyPy ] >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> At my last job in the States, almost half the team was >>>>>> non-American and that was a strength, not a weakness. We don't know what >>>>>> happened at the IEBC yet, and kudos to the people working to get that data >>>>>> available, but the failures here cannot be blamed on 'outsiders'. Some of >>>>>> the commentary is bordering on xenophobic. >>>>>> >>>>>> As for openness at the code level, that would certainly be >>>>>> awesome. Check out this article ( >>>>>> http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/11/internet-based-and-open-source-how-e...) >>>>>> and connect with the Brazilians and Australians rather than try to create a >>>>>> techno-autarky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky). >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Adam >>>>>> >>>>>> https://twitter.com/varud >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> +254 712 966 801 <%2B254%20712%20966%20801> >>>>>> https://twitter.com/varud >>>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Bwana Lawi <mail2lawi@gmail.com >>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Cool, we have made up. Hugs and shoulder pats. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Can we get back to the issue at hand now? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com >>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Then I wish you had said that to begin with sans the knee >>>>>>>> jerk reaction. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I absolutely agree with you about the opening up of the >>>>>>>> software, and not just that - the processes and procedures >>>>>>>> followed by all the people in the chain >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Bernard Owuor wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Skunks, >>>>>>>>> If I knew that this windows-vs-linux thing was so emotive, >>>>>>>>> I'd have skipped it totally. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It is really obscuring the point I'm trying to make - which >>>>>>>>> is - opening up softwares built in the public interest - >>>>>>>>> not just to strengthen the systems, but also to foster >>>>>>>>> confidence among the varioius stake-holders. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> @Steve, you're really in agreement with me. We're all >>>>>>>>> speculating, so treat my "windows 8 server" bashing as just that. Just >>>>>>>>> between you and me, I know that mysql would complain thus in a Linux system >>>>>>>>> if it ran out of disk space - because Linux stores locks on the disk. I >>>>>>>>> didn't know the same happened in windows too. But hey, we're free to >>>>>>>>> speculate in the absence of information. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> @Rad, a bad workman 'quarrels' with his tool. Most of those >>>>>>>>> who 'blame' their tools seldom work, thus they don't qualify to be called >>>>>>>>> workmen of any type.... A good workman selects the right tool for the job. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>>> *From:* Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> *To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> >>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:14 PM >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> See? The last bastion of "professionals" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Bad craftsmen blame their tools >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical system? >>>>>>>>> SMDH!!! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ---- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Kind Regards, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Alex Nyalita >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki < >>>>>>>>> patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when you've >>>>>>>>> got all the time in the world; >>>>>>>>> 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no idea) >>>>>>>>> 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error >>>>>>>>> message) >>>>>>>>> 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of possible >>>>>>>>> assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages you've had >>>>>>>>> with different production systems) >>>>>>>>> 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give free >>>>>>>>> advise, we know they're reading this - wait, isn't someone >>>>>>>>> getting paid to do all these??) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru < >>>>>>>>> bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of >>>>>>>>> lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, >>>>>>>>> get-your-hands-dirty experience. >>>>>>>>> What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential >>>>>>>>> design flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. >>>>>>>>> Whiteafrican has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting >>>>>>>>> elements. >>>>>>>>> We can use that for starters. >>>>>>>>> http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ >>>>>>>>> ./bernard >>>>>>>>> On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" < >>>>>>>>> techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It's our professional duty and responsibility to question >>>>>>>>> this. In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and inasmuch as we >>>>>>>>> acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it under the carpet >>>>>>>>> and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain irresponsible. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, even >>>>>>>>> clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client paying >>>>>>>>> 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who undercut >>>>>>>>> us. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Anyway, back to issue at hand. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> @Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a >>>>>>>>> proper voting >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> @Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With >>>>>>>>> screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had >>>>>>>>> already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the >>>>>>>>> failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the >>>>>>>>> data is already at IEBC servers? >>>>>>>>> What would be the technological reason for the system to >>>>>>>>> stop processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is >>>>>>>>> being done by google from IEBC servers. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So what exactly is failing? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki < >>>>>>>>> shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dear Skunks, >>>>>>>>> Pole for the delay in results. >>>>>>>>> These are the kind of things that make people suspicious and >>>>>>>>> not trust local ICT professionals. >>>>>>>>> The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. All >>>>>>>>> they know is that 9b of their money was spent >>>>>>>>> on the systems. >>>>>>>>> The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that >>>>>>>>> they can be managed by a powerful desk top on any >>>>>>>>> relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent >>>>>>>>> submission of results because all that is need is a good queue >>>>>>>>> management algorith. >>>>>>>>> A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from >>>>>>>>> polling stations >>>>>>>>> As have al >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>> ------------ >>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>> ------------ >>>>>> >>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>> ------------ >>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>> ------------ >>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>> ------------ >>>>> >>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>> ------------ >>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> skunkworks mailing listskunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>> ------------ >>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribehttp://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>> ------------ >>>> >>>> Skunkworks Ruleshttp://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>> ------------ >>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> This message contains confidential information and is intended >>>> only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you >>>> should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the >>>> sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake >>>> and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be >>>> guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, >>>> corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. >>>> The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions >>>> in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail >>>> transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy >>>> version. >>>> *Kenya Data Networks,* *Tel: +254(20)5000000,* *www.kdn.co.ke* >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>> ------------ >>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>> ------------ >>>> >>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>> ------------ >>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> skunkworks mailing list >>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>> ------------ >>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>> ------------ >>> >>> Skunkworks Rules >>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>> ------------ >>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Odhiambo WASHINGTON, >> Nairobi,KE >> +254733744121/+254722743223 >> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ >> I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> skunkworks mailing listskunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >> ------------ >> List info, subscribe/unsubscribehttp://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >> ------------ >> >> Skunkworks Ruleshttp://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >> ------------ >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >> >> >> >> This message contains confidential information and is intended only >> for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not >> disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender >> immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and >> delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be >> guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, >> corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. >> The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions >> in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail >> transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy >> version. >> *Kenya Data Networks,* *Tel: +254(20)5000000,* *www.kdn.co.ke* >> >> _______________________________________________ >> skunkworks mailing list >> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >> ------------ >> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >> ------------ >> >> Skunkworks Rules >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >> ------------ >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Odhiambo WASHINGTON, > Nairobi,KE > +254733744121/+254722743223 > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ > I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. > > _______________________________________________ > skunkworks mailing list > skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > ------------ > List info, subscribe/unsubscribe > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
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-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 "I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler."
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-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 "I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler."
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as you all still cry over IEBC systems, I think it is a prime time now we scutinize a million dollar system (funded by taxpayer) to be implemented by KENTRADE to allow clearing and fowarding to be seamless. antony... On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 11:00 PM, Martin Akolo Chiteri < martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote:
A person was also kind enough to write an article about it < http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/07/estonia-publishes-its-e-voting-so...
Martin.
On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 10:53 PM, Martin Akolo Chiteri < martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
Sorry, I understand that people ``moved on'' away from this topic a long time ago.
Some interesting developments I bumped into recently. The sources to Estonia's E-voting system are now open: < https://github.com/vvk-ehk/evalimine >
A large chunk of it is written in Python, just from a quick glance ...... O.k, actually the whole of it.
Martin.
On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 4:28 PM, Martin Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com
wrote:
On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 4:25 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com
wrote:
Haiya! You go to court. Small advise though - Okiya Okoiti Omtatah may be willing to accompany you.
Actually I meant, "I refuse ...... to prove you wrong.". And as you said, people have moved on.
Martin.
On 16 April 2013 16:15, Martin Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com>wrote:
@Wash,
On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 3:36 PM, Odhiambo Washington < odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:
We have "moved on"!
In one of todays dailies, UNDP offered to fund the audit of IEBC systems on condition that IEBC allows an outside body to participate in the audit process. Guess what? IEBC has refused and only want to audit itself internally. So why worry about what went wrong anyway? Perhaps we need to go to court to seek authority for external audit of IEBC, funded by UNDP of course. I can bet 100% that none of us really cares about that! Prove me wrong.
I refuse! :-)
Martin.
On 16 April 2013 15:01, Martin Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com>wrote:
> I was hoping someone would post or comment on this link here: > http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000081518&story_title=Kenya--IT-a... > > > Martin. > > > On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 2:04 PM, Odhiambo Washington < > odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Heheee.. It's not only Western Media. Some Kenyan bloggers keen on >> being very controversial and very nasty have it too.. >> Check out our own (Kenya's) Robert Alai doing his verbal diarrhea >> here -> http://lix.in/-c9fe46 >> >> >> >> On 7 March 2013 13:59, Dan Kwach <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote: >> >>> @ Wash... >>> >>> Wewe...heshimu Western media...the guys know thea stuff... :-D >>> >>> Dan O.Kwach. >>> >>> On 3/7/2013 1:48 PM, Odhiambo Washington wrote: >>> >>> +1 >>> >>> It's the first time I heard on a p2p VPN requiring a RDBMs to >>> run:-) >>> >>> >>> On 7 March 2013 13:44, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> "The Safaricom Virtual Private Network that runs on Oracle ...." >>>> I stopped there...smh. >>>> If you're going to speculate, at least use an intelligent guess. >>>> >>>> ./bernard >>>> On Mar 7, 2013 1:39 PM, "Dan Kwach" <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote: >>>> >>>>> http://intelligencebriefs.com/?p=3413 >>>>> >>>>> Not sure how accurate the above is though...I think speculation >>>>> is too rife for anyone to know the exact truth.. >>>>> >>>>> Rgds, >>>>> >>>>> Dan O.Kwach. >>>>> >>>>> On 3/7/2013 10:18 AM, Bogi Benga wrote: >>>>> >>>>> word round is that the system was hacked >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/kenyan-election-2013/evans-ondieki-iebc-all... >>>>> >>>>> Anyone who can shed more light on this? >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 8:45 AM, Martin Chiteri < >>>>> martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Nelson, >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you for your comments, they are all very sound. I just >>>>>> need to put something small into context: >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Adam Nelson <adam@varud.com>wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I just wanted to respond to many of the issues raised today >>>>>>> about the IEBC, the electronic tallying system, and about open access. As >>>>>>> one of the few non-Kenyans on the list (2 months in Nairobi, previously NY >>>>>>> where I did alot of Python work), maybe I have a unique outsiders point of >>>>>>> view. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Of course, this is not my election, but I it is important to >>>>>>> the world that Kenya has strong institutions and the duty to create and >>>>>>> maintain those institutions lies with everybody. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hardware is likely not the problem here (disk space comments >>>>>>> aside - which are surely do to logical, not physical errors), the problem >>>>>>> is multifaceted: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On this list, there is a strong bias towards "Kenyan >>>>>>> solutions" or "Kenyanborn". Aside from finding this kind of offensive, >>>>>>> it's also just petty and backwards. The reason IEBC exists is not to >>>>>>> support the local ICT industry, it's to facilitate a trustworthy platform >>>>>>> on which Kenyan elections can take place. In addition, there are hundreds >>>>>>> of elections a year around the world and for Kenya to have a one-off system >>>>>>> that has never been used elsewhere and will never be used elsewhere is >>>>>>> neither efficient nor high quality. Maybe the local word processor and >>>>>>> spreadsheet apps should be "Kenyanborn" too? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> The general bias towards Kenyan solutions here stems from the >>>>>> fact that most procurements of I.T solutions, for both hardware and >>>>>> software by public institutions in Kenya, is tilted in favour of foreign >>>>>> vending companies. An assumption made is that the imported systems are of >>>>>> higher quality since they were "done abroad" even though this is not always >>>>>> the case. >>>>>> >>>>>> The issue is that some of the systems end up being done >>>>>> largely by locals. The multi-nationals simply hire Kenyan developers less >>>>>> expensively to do the job right after being awarded the contract but >>>>>> maintain the figures invoiced earlier. In the end they cost a lot of money, >>>>>> for instance the IEBC system that attracted an invoice upwards of 100 >>>>>> million U.S.D. This is not too good especially to our economy's balance of >>>>>> payments. >>>>>> >>>>>> What people are saying is that we can at least do >>>>>> half-a-decent job, that is all. >>>>>> >>>>>> Martin. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> .... And now for something completely different: ``A >>>>>> radioactive cat has 18 half-lives.'' [ PyPy ] >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> At my last job in the States, almost half the team was >>>>>>> non-American and that was a strength, not a weakness. We don't know what >>>>>>> happened at the IEBC yet, and kudos to the people working to get that data >>>>>>> available, but the failures here cannot be blamed on 'outsiders'. Some of >>>>>>> the commentary is bordering on xenophobic. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As for openness at the code level, that would certainly be >>>>>>> awesome. Check out this article ( >>>>>>> http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/11/internet-based-and-open-source-how-e...) >>>>>>> and connect with the Brazilians and Australians rather than try to create a >>>>>>> techno-autarky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> Adam >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://twitter.com/varud >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> +254 712 966 801 <%2B254%20712%20966%20801> >>>>>>> https://twitter.com/varud >>>>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Bwana Lawi < >>>>>>> mail2lawi@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cool, we have made up. Hugs and shoulder pats. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Can we get back to the issue at hand now? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> :) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Rad! < >>>>>>>> conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Then I wish you had said that to begin with sans the knee >>>>>>>>> jerk reaction. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I absolutely agree with you about the opening up of the >>>>>>>>> software, and not just that - the processes and procedures >>>>>>>>> followed by all the people in the chain >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Bernard Owuor wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Skunks, >>>>>>>>>> If I knew that this windows-vs-linux thing was so emotive, >>>>>>>>>> I'd have skipped it totally. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> It is really obscuring the point I'm trying to make - which >>>>>>>>>> is - opening up softwares built in the public interest - >>>>>>>>>> not just to strengthen the systems, but also to foster >>>>>>>>>> confidence among the varioius stake-holders. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> @Steve, you're really in agreement with me. We're all >>>>>>>>>> speculating, so treat my "windows 8 server" bashing as just that. Just >>>>>>>>>> between you and me, I know that mysql would complain thus in a Linux system >>>>>>>>>> if it ran out of disk space - because Linux stores locks on the disk. I >>>>>>>>>> didn't know the same happened in windows too. But hey, we're free to >>>>>>>>>> speculate in the absence of information. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> @Rad, a bad workman 'quarrels' with his tool. Most of >>>>>>>>>> those who 'blame' their tools seldom work, thus they don't qualify to be >>>>>>>>>> called workmen of any type.... A good workman selects the right tool for >>>>>>>>>> the job. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>> *From:* Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>> *To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> >>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:14 PM >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> See? The last bastion of "professionals" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Bad craftsmen blame their tools >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical system? >>>>>>>>>> SMDH!!! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ---- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Kind Regards, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Alex Nyalita >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki < >>>>>>>>>> patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when you've >>>>>>>>>> got all the time in the world; >>>>>>>>>> 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no idea) >>>>>>>>>> 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error >>>>>>>>>> message) >>>>>>>>>> 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of possible >>>>>>>>>> assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages you've had >>>>>>>>>> with different production systems) >>>>>>>>>> 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give >>>>>>>>>> free advise, we know they're reading this - wait, isn't >>>>>>>>>> someone getting paid to do all these??) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru < >>>>>>>>>> bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of >>>>>>>>>> lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, >>>>>>>>>> get-your-hands-dirty experience. >>>>>>>>>> What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential >>>>>>>>>> design flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. >>>>>>>>>> Whiteafrican has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting >>>>>>>>>> elements. >>>>>>>>>> We can use that for starters. >>>>>>>>>> http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ >>>>>>>>>> ./bernard >>>>>>>>>> On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" < >>>>>>>>>> techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> It's our professional duty and responsibility to question >>>>>>>>>> this. In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and inasmuch as we >>>>>>>>>> acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it under the carpet >>>>>>>>>> and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain irresponsible. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, even >>>>>>>>>> clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client paying >>>>>>>>>> 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who undercut >>>>>>>>>> us. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Anyway, back to issue at hand. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> @Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a >>>>>>>>>> proper voting >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> @Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With >>>>>>>>>> screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had >>>>>>>>>> already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the >>>>>>>>>> failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the >>>>>>>>>> data is already at IEBC servers? >>>>>>>>>> What would be the technological reason for the system to >>>>>>>>>> stop processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is >>>>>>>>>> being done by google from IEBC servers. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> So what exactly is failing? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki < >>>>>>>>>> shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Dear Skunks, >>>>>>>>>> Pole for the delay in results. >>>>>>>>>> These are the kind of things that make people suspicious >>>>>>>>>> and not trust local ICT professionals. >>>>>>>>>> The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. >>>>>>>>>> All they know is that 9b of their money was spent >>>>>>>>>> on the systems. >>>>>>>>>> The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that >>>>>>>>>> they can be managed by a powerful desk top on any >>>>>>>>>> relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent >>>>>>>>>> submission of results because all that is need is a good queue >>>>>>>>>> management algorith. >>>>>>>>>> A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from >>>>>>>>>> polling stations >>>>>>>>>> As have al >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>> ------------ >>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>> ------------ >>>>>> >>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>> ------------ >>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> skunkworks mailing listskunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>> ------------ >>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribehttp://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>> ------------ >>>>> >>>>> Skunkworks Ruleshttp://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>> ------------ >>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> This message contains confidential information and is intended >>>>> only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you >>>>> should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the >>>>> sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake >>>>> and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be >>>>> guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, >>>>> corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. >>>>> The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions >>>>> in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail >>>>> transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy >>>>> version. >>>>> *Kenya Data Networks,* *Tel: +254(20)5000000,* *www.kdn.co.ke* >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>> ------------ >>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>> ------------ >>>>> >>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>> ------------ >>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>> ------------ >>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>> ------------ >>>> >>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>> ------------ >>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Best regards, >>> Odhiambo WASHINGTON, >>> Nairobi,KE >>> +254733744121/+254722743223 >>> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ >>> I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> skunkworks mailing listskunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>> ------------ >>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribehttp://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>> ------------ >>> >>> Skunkworks Ruleshttp://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>> ------------ >>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>> >>> >>> >>> This message contains confidential information and is intended >>> only for the individual named. 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If verification is required please request a hard-copy >>> version. >>> *Kenya Data Networks,* *Tel: +254(20)5000000,* *www.kdn.co.ke* >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> skunkworks mailing list >>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>> ------------ >>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>> ------------ >>> >>> Skunkworks Rules >>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>> ------------ >>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Odhiambo WASHINGTON, >> Nairobi,KE >> +254733744121/+254722743223 >> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ >> I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> skunkworks mailing list >> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >> ------------ >> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >> ------------ >> >> Skunkworks Rules >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >> ------------ >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >> > > > _______________________________________________ > skunkworks mailing list > skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > ------------ > List info, subscribe/unsubscribe > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 "I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler."
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by the way which country is providing the system? singapore? what system is it? i know it has been identified but not sure which one On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 9:10 AM, Antony Kimani <kimanianthoni@gmail.com>wrote:
as you all still cry over IEBC systems, I think it is a prime time now we scutinize a million dollar system (funded by taxpayer) to be implemented by KENTRADE to allow clearing and fowarding to be seamless.
antony...
On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 11:00 PM, Martin Akolo Chiteri < martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote:
A person was also kind enough to write an article about it < http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/07/estonia-publishes-its-e-voting-so...
Martin.
On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 10:53 PM, Martin Akolo Chiteri < martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
Sorry, I understand that people ``moved on'' away from this topic a long time ago.
Some interesting developments I bumped into recently. The sources to Estonia's E-voting system are now open: < https://github.com/vvk-ehk/evalimine >
A large chunk of it is written in Python, just from a quick glance ...... O.k, actually the whole of it.
Martin.
On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 4:28 PM, Martin Chiteri < martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 4:25 PM, Odhiambo Washington < odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:
Haiya! You go to court. Small advise though - Okiya Okoiti Omtatah may be willing to accompany you.
Actually I meant, "I refuse ...... to prove you wrong.". And as you said, people have moved on.
Martin.
On 16 April 2013 16:15, Martin Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com>wrote:
@Wash,
On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 3:36 PM, Odhiambo Washington < odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:
> We have "moved on"! > > In one of todays dailies, UNDP offered to fund the audit of IEBC > systems on condition that IEBC allows an outside body to participate in the > audit process. Guess what? IEBC has refused and only want to audit itself > internally. So why worry about what went wrong anyway? > Perhaps we need to go to court to seek authority for external audit > of IEBC, funded by UNDP of course. I can bet 100% that none of us really > cares about that! > Prove me wrong. > > I refuse! :-)
Martin.
> > > On 16 April 2013 15:01, Martin Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com>wrote: > >> I was hoping someone would post or comment on this link here: >> http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000081518&story_title=Kenya--IT-a... >> >> >> Martin. >> >> >> On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 2:04 PM, Odhiambo Washington < >> odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Heheee.. It's not only Western Media. Some Kenyan bloggers keen on >>> being very controversial and very nasty have it too.. >>> Check out our own (Kenya's) Robert Alai doing his verbal diarrhea >>> here -> http://lix.in/-c9fe46 >>> >>> >>> >>> On 7 March 2013 13:59, Dan Kwach <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote: >>> >>>> @ Wash... >>>> >>>> Wewe...heshimu Western media...the guys know thea stuff... :-D >>>> >>>> Dan O.Kwach. >>>> >>>> On 3/7/2013 1:48 PM, Odhiambo Washington wrote: >>>> >>>> +1 >>>> >>>> It's the first time I heard on a p2p VPN requiring a RDBMs to >>>> run:-) >>>> >>>> >>>> On 7 March 2013 13:44, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com>wrote: >>>> >>>>> "The Safaricom Virtual Private Network that runs on Oracle ...." >>>>> I stopped there...smh. >>>>> If you're going to speculate, at least use an intelligent guess. >>>>> >>>>> ./bernard >>>>> On Mar 7, 2013 1:39 PM, "Dan Kwach" <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> http://intelligencebriefs.com/?p=3413 >>>>>> >>>>>> Not sure how accurate the above is though...I think >>>>>> speculation is too rife for anyone to know the exact truth.. >>>>>> >>>>>> Rgds, >>>>>> >>>>>> Dan O.Kwach. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 3/7/2013 10:18 AM, Bogi Benga wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> word round is that the system was hacked >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/kenyan-election-2013/evans-ondieki-iebc-all... >>>>>> >>>>>> Anyone who can shed more light on this? >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 8:45 AM, Martin Chiteri < >>>>>> martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Nelson, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you for your comments, they are all very sound. I just >>>>>>> need to put something small into context: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Adam Nelson <adam@varud.com>wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I just wanted to respond to many of the issues raised today >>>>>>>> about the IEBC, the electronic tallying system, and about open access. As >>>>>>>> one of the few non-Kenyans on the list (2 months in Nairobi, previously NY >>>>>>>> where I did alot of Python work), maybe I have a unique outsiders point of >>>>>>>> view. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Of course, this is not my election, but I it is important >>>>>>>> to the world that Kenya has strong institutions and the duty to create and >>>>>>>> maintain those institutions lies with everybody. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hardware is likely not the problem here (disk space >>>>>>>> comments aside - which are surely do to logical, not physical errors), the >>>>>>>> problem is multifaceted: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On this list, there is a strong bias towards "Kenyan >>>>>>>> solutions" or "Kenyanborn". Aside from finding this kind of offensive, >>>>>>>> it's also just petty and backwards. The reason IEBC exists is not to >>>>>>>> support the local ICT industry, it's to facilitate a trustworthy platform >>>>>>>> on which Kenyan elections can take place. In addition, there are hundreds >>>>>>>> of elections a year around the world and for Kenya to have a one-off system >>>>>>>> that has never been used elsewhere and will never be used elsewhere is >>>>>>>> neither efficient nor high quality. Maybe the local word processor and >>>>>>>> spreadsheet apps should be "Kenyanborn" too? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> The general bias towards Kenyan solutions here stems from >>>>>>> the fact that most procurements of I.T solutions, for both hardware and >>>>>>> software by public institutions in Kenya, is tilted in favour of foreign >>>>>>> vending companies. An assumption made is that the imported systems are of >>>>>>> higher quality since they were "done abroad" even though this is not always >>>>>>> the case. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The issue is that some of the systems end up being done >>>>>>> largely by locals. The multi-nationals simply hire Kenyan developers less >>>>>>> expensively to do the job right after being awarded the contract but >>>>>>> maintain the figures invoiced earlier. In the end they cost a lot of money, >>>>>>> for instance the IEBC system that attracted an invoice upwards of 100 >>>>>>> million U.S.D. This is not too good especially to our economy's balance of >>>>>>> payments. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What people are saying is that we can at least do >>>>>>> half-a-decent job, that is all. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Martin. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> .... And now for something completely different: ``A >>>>>>> radioactive cat has 18 half-lives.'' [ PyPy ] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> At my last job in the States, almost half the team was >>>>>>>> non-American and that was a strength, not a weakness. We don't know what >>>>>>>> happened at the IEBC yet, and kudos to the people working to get that data >>>>>>>> available, but the failures here cannot be blamed on 'outsiders'. Some of >>>>>>>> the commentary is bordering on xenophobic. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As for openness at the code level, that would certainly be >>>>>>>> awesome. Check out this article ( >>>>>>>> http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/11/internet-based-and-open-source-how-e...) >>>>>>>> and connect with the Brazilians and Australians rather than try to create a >>>>>>>> techno-autarky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>> Adam >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/varud >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> +254 712 966 801 <%2B254%20712%20966%20801> >>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/varud >>>>>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Bwana Lawi < >>>>>>>> mail2lawi@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cool, we have made up. Hugs and shoulder pats. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Can we get back to the issue at hand now? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> :) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Rad! < >>>>>>>>> conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Then I wish you had said that to begin with sans the knee >>>>>>>>>> jerk reaction. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I absolutely agree with you about the opening up of the >>>>>>>>>> software, and not just that - the processes and procedures >>>>>>>>>> followed by all the people in the chain >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Bernard Owuor wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Skunks, >>>>>>>>>>> If I knew that this windows-vs-linux thing was so emotive, >>>>>>>>>>> I'd have skipped it totally. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> It is really obscuring the point I'm trying to make - >>>>>>>>>>> which is - opening up softwares built in the public >>>>>>>>>>> interest - not just to strengthen the systems, but also to >>>>>>>>>>> foster confidence among the varioius stake-holders. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> @Steve, you're really in agreement with me. We're all >>>>>>>>>>> speculating, so treat my "windows 8 server" bashing as just that. Just >>>>>>>>>>> between you and me, I know that mysql would complain thus in a Linux system >>>>>>>>>>> if it ran out of disk space - because Linux stores locks on the disk. I >>>>>>>>>>> didn't know the same happened in windows too. But hey, we're free to >>>>>>>>>>> speculate in the absence of information. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> @Rad, a bad workman 'quarrels' with his tool. Most of >>>>>>>>>>> those who 'blame' their tools seldom work, thus they don't qualify to be >>>>>>>>>>> called workmen of any type.... A good workman selects the right tool for >>>>>>>>>>> the job. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>>> *From:* Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>> *To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> >>>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:14 PM >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> See? The last bastion of "professionals" >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Bad craftsmen blame their tools >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical >>>>>>>>>>> system? SMDH!!! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ---- >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Kind Regards, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Alex Nyalita >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki < >>>>>>>>>>> patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when >>>>>>>>>>> you've got all the time in the world; >>>>>>>>>>> 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no idea) >>>>>>>>>>> 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error >>>>>>>>>>> message) >>>>>>>>>>> 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of >>>>>>>>>>> possible assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages >>>>>>>>>>> you've had with different production systems) >>>>>>>>>>> 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give >>>>>>>>>>> free advise, we know they're reading this - wait, isn't >>>>>>>>>>> someone getting paid to do all these??) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru < >>>>>>>>>>> bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of >>>>>>>>>>> lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, >>>>>>>>>>> get-your-hands-dirty experience. >>>>>>>>>>> What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential >>>>>>>>>>> design flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. >>>>>>>>>>> Whiteafrican has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting >>>>>>>>>>> elements. >>>>>>>>>>> We can use that for starters. >>>>>>>>>>> http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ >>>>>>>>>>> ./bernard >>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" < >>>>>>>>>>> techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> It's our professional duty and responsibility to >>>>>>>>>>> question this. In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and >>>>>>>>>>> inasmuch as we acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it >>>>>>>>>>> under the carpet and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain >>>>>>>>>>> irresponsible. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, >>>>>>>>>>> even clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client >>>>>>>>>>> paying 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who >>>>>>>>>>> undercut us. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, back to issue at hand. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> @Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a >>>>>>>>>>> proper voting >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> @Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With >>>>>>>>>>> screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had >>>>>>>>>>> already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the >>>>>>>>>>> failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the >>>>>>>>>>> data is already at IEBC servers? >>>>>>>>>>> What would be the technological reason for the system to >>>>>>>>>>> stop processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is >>>>>>>>>>> being done by google from IEBC servers. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> So what exactly is failing? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki < >>>>>>>>>>> shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Dear Skunks, >>>>>>>>>>> Pole for the delay in results. >>>>>>>>>>> These are the kind of things that make people suspicious >>>>>>>>>>> and not trust local ICT professionals. >>>>>>>>>>> The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. >>>>>>>>>>> All they know is that 9b of their money was spent >>>>>>>>>>> on the systems. >>>>>>>>>>> The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that >>>>>>>>>>> they can be managed by a powerful desk top on any >>>>>>>>>>> relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent >>>>>>>>>>> submission of results because all that is need is a good queue >>>>>>>>>>> management algorith. >>>>>>>>>>> A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from >>>>>>>>>>> polling stations >>>>>>>>>>> As have al >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> skunkworks mailing listskunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>> ------------ >>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribehttp://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>> ------------ >>>>>> >>>>>> Skunkworks Ruleshttp://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>> ------------ >>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> This message contains confidential information and is intended >>>>>> only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you >>>>>> should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the >>>>>> sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake >>>>>> and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be >>>>>> guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, >>>>>> corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. >>>>>> The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions >>>>>> in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail >>>>>> transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy >>>>>> version. >>>>>> *Kenya Data Networks,* *Tel: +254(20)5000000,* *www.kdn.co.ke* >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>> ------------ >>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>> ------------ >>>>>> >>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>> ------------ >>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>> ------------ >>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>> ------------ >>>>> >>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>> ------------ >>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Best regards, >>>> Odhiambo WASHINGTON, >>>> Nairobi,KE >>>> +254733744121/+254722743223 >>>> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ >>>> I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> skunkworks mailing listskunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>> ------------ >>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribehttp://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>> ------------ >>>> >>>> Skunkworks Ruleshttp://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>> ------------ >>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> This message contains confidential information and is intended >>>> only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you >>>> should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the >>>> sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake >>>> and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be >>>> guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, >>>> corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. >>>> The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions >>>> in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail >>>> transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy >>>> version. >>>> *Kenya Data Networks,* *Tel: +254(20)5000000,* *www.kdn.co.ke* >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>> ------------ >>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>> ------------ >>>> >>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>> ------------ >>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Best regards, >>> Odhiambo WASHINGTON, >>> Nairobi,KE >>> +254733744121/+254722743223 >>> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ >>> I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> skunkworks mailing list >>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>> ------------ >>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>> ------------ >>> >>> Skunkworks Rules >>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>> ------------ >>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> skunkworks mailing list >> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >> ------------ >> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >> ------------ >> >> Skunkworks Rules >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >> ------------ >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Odhiambo WASHINGTON, > Nairobi,KE > +254733744121/+254722743223 > "I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler." > > _______________________________________________ > skunkworks mailing list > skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > ------------ > List info, subscribe/unsubscribe > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
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-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 "I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler."
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system is ok provided by crimson logic but hosting the system in Kenya is the issue, the 5w and 1h on the hosting company. On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 10:10 AM, Simon Wainaina <swainaina@gmail.com>wrote:
by the way which country is providing the system? singapore? what system is it? i know it has been identified but not sure which one
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 9:10 AM, Antony Kimani <kimanianthoni@gmail.com>wrote:
as you all still cry over IEBC systems, I think it is a prime time now we scutinize a million dollar system (funded by taxpayer) to be implemented by KENTRADE to allow clearing and fowarding to be seamless.
antony...
On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 11:00 PM, Martin Akolo Chiteri < martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote:
A person was also kind enough to write an article about it < http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/07/estonia-publishes-its-e-voting-so...
Martin.
On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 10:53 PM, Martin Akolo Chiteri < martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
Sorry, I understand that people ``moved on'' away from this topic a long time ago.
Some interesting developments I bumped into recently. The sources to Estonia's E-voting system are now open: < https://github.com/vvk-ehk/evalimine >
A large chunk of it is written in Python, just from a quick glance ...... O.k, actually the whole of it.
Martin.
On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 4:28 PM, Martin Chiteri < martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 4:25 PM, Odhiambo Washington < odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:
Haiya! You go to court. Small advise though - Okiya Okoiti Omtatah may be willing to accompany you.
Actually I meant, "I refuse ...... to prove you wrong.". And as you said, people have moved on.
Martin.
On 16 April 2013 16:15, Martin Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com>wrote:
> @Wash, > > > On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 3:36 PM, Odhiambo Washington < > odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote: > >> We have "moved on"! >> >> In one of todays dailies, UNDP offered to fund the audit of IEBC >> systems on condition that IEBC allows an outside body to participate in the >> audit process. Guess what? IEBC has refused and only want to audit itself >> internally. So why worry about what went wrong anyway? >> Perhaps we need to go to court to seek authority for external audit >> of IEBC, funded by UNDP of course. I can bet 100% that none of us really >> cares about that! >> Prove me wrong. >> >> I refuse! :-) > > Martin. > >> >> >> On 16 April 2013 15:01, Martin Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com>wrote: >> >>> I was hoping someone would post or comment on this link here: >>> http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000081518&story_title=Kenya--IT-a... >>> >>> >>> Martin. >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 2:04 PM, Odhiambo Washington < >>> odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Heheee.. It's not only Western Media. Some Kenyan bloggers keen >>>> on being very controversial and very nasty have it too.. >>>> Check out our own (Kenya's) Robert Alai doing his verbal diarrhea >>>> here -> http://lix.in/-c9fe46 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 7 March 2013 13:59, Dan Kwach <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote: >>>> >>>>> @ Wash... >>>>> >>>>> Wewe...heshimu Western media...the guys know thea stuff... :-D >>>>> >>>>> Dan O.Kwach. >>>>> >>>>> On 3/7/2013 1:48 PM, Odhiambo Washington wrote: >>>>> >>>>> +1 >>>>> >>>>> It's the first time I heard on a p2p VPN requiring a RDBMs to >>>>> run:-) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 7 March 2013 13:44, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> "The Safaricom Virtual Private Network that runs on Oracle ...." >>>>>> I stopped there...smh. >>>>>> If you're going to speculate, at least use an intelligent guess. >>>>>> >>>>>> ./bernard >>>>>> On Mar 7, 2013 1:39 PM, "Dan Kwach" <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> http://intelligencebriefs.com/?p=3413 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Not sure how accurate the above is though...I think >>>>>>> speculation is too rife for anyone to know the exact truth.. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Rgds, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dan O.Kwach. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 3/7/2013 10:18 AM, Bogi Benga wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> word round is that the system was hacked >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/kenyan-election-2013/evans-ondieki-iebc-all... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Anyone who can shed more light on this? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 8:45 AM, Martin Chiteri < >>>>>>> martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Nelson, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thank you for your comments, they are all very sound. I >>>>>>>> just need to put something small into context: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Adam Nelson <adam@varud.com>wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I just wanted to respond to many of the issues raised >>>>>>>>> today about the IEBC, the electronic tallying system, and about open >>>>>>>>> access. As one of the few non-Kenyans on the list (2 months in Nairobi, >>>>>>>>> previously NY where I did alot of Python work), maybe I have a unique >>>>>>>>> outsiders point of view. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Of course, this is not my election, but I it is important >>>>>>>>> to the world that Kenya has strong institutions and the duty to create and >>>>>>>>> maintain those institutions lies with everybody. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hardware is likely not the problem here (disk space >>>>>>>>> comments aside - which are surely do to logical, not physical errors), the >>>>>>>>> problem is multifaceted: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On this list, there is a strong bias towards "Kenyan >>>>>>>>> solutions" or "Kenyanborn". Aside from finding this kind of offensive, >>>>>>>>> it's also just petty and backwards. The reason IEBC exists is not to >>>>>>>>> support the local ICT industry, it's to facilitate a trustworthy platform >>>>>>>>> on which Kenyan elections can take place. In addition, there are hundreds >>>>>>>>> of elections a year around the world and for Kenya to have a one-off system >>>>>>>>> that has never been used elsewhere and will never be used elsewhere is >>>>>>>>> neither efficient nor high quality. Maybe the local word processor and >>>>>>>>> spreadsheet apps should be "Kenyanborn" too? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The general bias towards Kenyan solutions here stems from >>>>>>>> the fact that most procurements of I.T solutions, for both hardware and >>>>>>>> software by public institutions in Kenya, is tilted in favour of foreign >>>>>>>> vending companies. An assumption made is that the imported systems are of >>>>>>>> higher quality since they were "done abroad" even though this is not always >>>>>>>> the case. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The issue is that some of the systems end up being done >>>>>>>> largely by locals. The multi-nationals simply hire Kenyan developers less >>>>>>>> expensively to do the job right after being awarded the contract but >>>>>>>> maintain the figures invoiced earlier. In the end they cost a lot of money, >>>>>>>> for instance the IEBC system that attracted an invoice upwards of 100 >>>>>>>> million U.S.D. This is not too good especially to our economy's balance of >>>>>>>> payments. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What people are saying is that we can at least do >>>>>>>> half-a-decent job, that is all. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Martin. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> .... And now for something completely different: ``A >>>>>>>> radioactive cat has 18 half-lives.'' [ PyPy ] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> At my last job in the States, almost half the team was >>>>>>>>> non-American and that was a strength, not a weakness. We don't know what >>>>>>>>> happened at the IEBC yet, and kudos to the people working to get that data >>>>>>>>> available, but the failures here cannot be blamed on 'outsiders'. Some of >>>>>>>>> the commentary is bordering on xenophobic. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As for openness at the code level, that would certainly be >>>>>>>>> awesome. Check out this article ( >>>>>>>>> http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/11/internet-based-and-open-source-how-e...) >>>>>>>>> and connect with the Brazilians and Australians rather than try to create a >>>>>>>>> techno-autarky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>> Adam >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/varud >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> +254 712 966 801 <%2B254%20712%20966%20801> >>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/varud >>>>>>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Bwana Lawi < >>>>>>>>> mail2lawi@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Cool, we have made up. Hugs and shoulder pats. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Can we get back to the issue at hand now? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> :) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Rad! < >>>>>>>>>> conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Then I wish you had said that to begin with sans the >>>>>>>>>>> knee jerk reaction. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I absolutely agree with you about the opening up of the >>>>>>>>>>> software, and not just that - the processes and >>>>>>>>>>> procedures followed by all the people in the chain >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Bernard Owuor wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Skunks, >>>>>>>>>>>> If I knew that this windows-vs-linux thing was so >>>>>>>>>>>> emotive, I'd have skipped it totally. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> It is really obscuring the point I'm trying to make - >>>>>>>>>>>> which is - opening up softwares built in the public >>>>>>>>>>>> interest - not just to strengthen the systems, but also to >>>>>>>>>>>> foster confidence among the varioius stake-holders. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> @Steve, you're really in agreement with me. We're all >>>>>>>>>>>> speculating, so treat my "windows 8 server" bashing as just that. Just >>>>>>>>>>>> between you and me, I know that mysql would complain thus in a Linux system >>>>>>>>>>>> if it ran out of disk space - because Linux stores locks on the disk. I >>>>>>>>>>>> didn't know the same happened in windows too. But hey, we're free to >>>>>>>>>>>> speculate in the absence of information. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> @Rad, a bad workman 'quarrels' with his tool. Most of >>>>>>>>>>>> those who 'blame' their tools seldom work, thus they don't qualify to be >>>>>>>>>>>> called workmen of any type.... A good workman selects the right tool for >>>>>>>>>>>> the job. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>>>> *From:* Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>> *To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:14 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> See? The last bastion of "professionals" >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Bad craftsmen blame their tools >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical >>>>>>>>>>>> system? SMDH!!! >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ---- >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Kind Regards, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Alex Nyalita >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki < >>>>>>>>>>>> patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when >>>>>>>>>>>> you've got all the time in the world; >>>>>>>>>>>> 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no >>>>>>>>>>>> idea) >>>>>>>>>>>> 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error >>>>>>>>>>>> message) >>>>>>>>>>>> 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of >>>>>>>>>>>> possible assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages >>>>>>>>>>>> you've had with different production systems) >>>>>>>>>>>> 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give >>>>>>>>>>>> free advise, we know they're reading this - wait, isn't >>>>>>>>>>>> someone getting paid to do all these??) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru < >>>>>>>>>>>> bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation >>>>>>>>>>>> of lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, >>>>>>>>>>>> get-your-hands-dirty experience. >>>>>>>>>>>> What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential >>>>>>>>>>>> design flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. >>>>>>>>>>>> Whiteafrican has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting >>>>>>>>>>>> elements. >>>>>>>>>>>> We can use that for starters. >>>>>>>>>>>> http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ >>>>>>>>>>>> ./bernard >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" < >>>>>>>>>>>> techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> It's our professional duty and responsibility to >>>>>>>>>>>> question this. In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and >>>>>>>>>>>> inasmuch as we acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it >>>>>>>>>>>> under the carpet and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain >>>>>>>>>>>> irresponsible. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, >>>>>>>>>>>> even clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client >>>>>>>>>>>> paying 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who >>>>>>>>>>>> undercut us. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, back to issue at hand. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> @Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a >>>>>>>>>>>> proper voting >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> @Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With >>>>>>>>>>>> screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had >>>>>>>>>>>> already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the >>>>>>>>>>>> failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the >>>>>>>>>>>> data is already at IEBC servers? >>>>>>>>>>>> What would be the technological reason for the system to >>>>>>>>>>>> stop processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is >>>>>>>>>>>> being done by google from IEBC servers. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> So what exactly is failing? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki < >>>>>>>>>>>> shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Skunks, >>>>>>>>>>>> Pole for the delay in results. >>>>>>>>>>>> These are the kind of things that make people suspicious >>>>>>>>>>>> and not trust local ICT professionals. >>>>>>>>>>>> The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. >>>>>>>>>>>> All they know is that 9b of their money was spent >>>>>>>>>>>> on the systems. >>>>>>>>>>>> The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that >>>>>>>>>>>> they can be managed by a powerful desk top on any >>>>>>>>>>>> relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent >>>>>>>>>>>> submission of results because all that is need is a good queue >>>>>>>>>>>> management algorith. >>>>>>>>>>>> A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from >>>>>>>>>>>> polling stations >>>>>>>>>>>> As have al >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> skunkworks mailing listskunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribehttp://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Skunkworks Ruleshttp://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This message contains confidential information and is intended >>>>>>> only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you >>>>>>> should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the >>>>>>> sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake >>>>>>> and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be >>>>>>> guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, >>>>>>> corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. >>>>>>> The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions >>>>>>> in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail >>>>>>> transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy >>>>>>> version. >>>>>>> *Kenya Data Networks,* *Tel: +254(20)5000000,* *www.kdn.co.ke* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>> ------------ >>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>> ------------ >>>>>> >>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>> ------------ >>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> Odhiambo WASHINGTON, >>>>> Nairobi,KE >>>>> +254733744121/+254722743223 >>>>> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ >>>>> I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> skunkworks mailing listskunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>> ------------ >>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribehttp://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>> ------------ >>>>> >>>>> Skunkworks Ruleshttp://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>> ------------ >>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> This message contains confidential information and is intended >>>>> only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you >>>>> should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the >>>>> sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake >>>>> and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be >>>>> guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, >>>>> corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. >>>>> The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions >>>>> in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail >>>>> transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy >>>>> version. >>>>> *Kenya Data Networks,* *Tel: +254(20)5000000,* *www.kdn.co.ke* >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>> ------------ >>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>> ------------ >>>>> >>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>> ------------ >>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Best regards, >>>> Odhiambo WASHINGTON, >>>> Nairobi,KE >>>> +254733744121/+254722743223 >>>> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ >>>> I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>> ------------ >>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>> ------------ >>>> >>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>> ------------ >>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> skunkworks mailing list >>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>> ------------ >>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>> ------------ >>> >>> Skunkworks Rules >>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>> ------------ >>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Odhiambo WASHINGTON, >> Nairobi,KE >> +254733744121/+254722743223 >> "I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler." >> >> _______________________________________________ >> skunkworks mailing list >> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >> ------------ >> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >> ------------ >> >> Skunkworks Rules >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >> ------------ >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >> > > > _______________________________________________ > skunkworks mailing list > skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > ------------ > List info, subscribe/unsubscribe > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 "I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler."
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This query is directed to language masters? Why python? On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Antony Kimani <kimanianthoni@gmail.com>wrote:
system is ok provided by crimson logic but hosting the system in Kenya is the issue, the 5w and 1h on the hosting company.
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 10:10 AM, Simon Wainaina <swainaina@gmail.com>wrote:
by the way which country is providing the system? singapore? what system is it? i know it has been identified but not sure which one
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 9:10 AM, Antony Kimani <kimanianthoni@gmail.com>wrote:
as you all still cry over IEBC systems, I think it is a prime time now we scutinize a million dollar system (funded by taxpayer) to be implemented by KENTRADE to allow clearing and fowarding to be seamless.
antony...
On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 11:00 PM, Martin Akolo Chiteri < martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote:
A person was also kind enough to write an article about it < http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/07/estonia-publishes-its-e-voting-so...
Martin.
On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 10:53 PM, Martin Akolo Chiteri < martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
Sorry, I understand that people ``moved on'' away from this topic a long time ago.
Some interesting developments I bumped into recently. The sources to Estonia's E-voting system are now open: < https://github.com/vvk-ehk/evalimine >
A large chunk of it is written in Python, just from a quick glance ...... O.k, actually the whole of it.
Martin.
On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 4:28 PM, Martin Chiteri < martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 4:25 PM, Odhiambo Washington < odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:
> Haiya! You go to court. Small advise though - Okiya Okoiti Omtatah > may be willing to accompany you. > > Actually I meant, "I refuse ...... to prove you wrong.". And as you said, people have moved on.
Martin.
> > On 16 April 2013 16:15, Martin Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com>wrote: > >> @Wash, >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 3:36 PM, Odhiambo Washington < >> odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> We have "moved on"! >>> >>> In one of todays dailies, UNDP offered to fund the audit of IEBC >>> systems on condition that IEBC allows an outside body to participate in the >>> audit process. Guess what? IEBC has refused and only want to audit itself >>> internally. So why worry about what went wrong anyway? >>> Perhaps we need to go to court to seek authority for external >>> audit of IEBC, funded by UNDP of course. I can bet 100% that none of us >>> really cares about that! >>> Prove me wrong. >>> >>> I refuse! :-) >> >> Martin. >> >>> >>> >>> On 16 April 2013 15:01, Martin Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com>wrote: >>> >>>> I was hoping someone would post or comment on this link here: >>>> http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000081518&story_title=Kenya--IT-a... >>>> >>>> >>>> Martin. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 2:04 PM, Odhiambo Washington < >>>> odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Heheee.. It's not only Western Media. Some Kenyan bloggers keen >>>>> on being very controversial and very nasty have it too.. >>>>> Check out our own (Kenya's) Robert Alai doing his verbal >>>>> diarrhea here -> http://lix.in/-c9fe46 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 7 March 2013 13:59, Dan Kwach <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> @ Wash... >>>>>> >>>>>> Wewe...heshimu Western media...the guys know thea stuff... :-D >>>>>> >>>>>> Dan O.Kwach. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 3/7/2013 1:48 PM, Odhiambo Washington wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> +1 >>>>>> >>>>>> It's the first time I heard on a p2p VPN requiring a RDBMs to >>>>>> run:-) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 7 March 2013 13:44, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com>wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> "The Safaricom Virtual Private Network that runs on >>>>>>> Oracle ...." >>>>>>> I stopped there...smh. >>>>>>> If you're going to speculate, at least use an intelligent >>>>>>> guess. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ./bernard >>>>>>> On Mar 7, 2013 1:39 PM, "Dan Kwach" <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://intelligencebriefs.com/?p=3413 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Not sure how accurate the above is though...I think >>>>>>>> speculation is too rife for anyone to know the exact truth.. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Rgds, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dan O.Kwach. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 3/7/2013 10:18 AM, Bogi Benga wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> word round is that the system was hacked >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/kenyan-election-2013/evans-ondieki-iebc-all... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Anyone who can shed more light on this? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 8:45 AM, Martin Chiteri < >>>>>>>> martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi Nelson, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thank you for your comments, they are all very sound. I >>>>>>>>> just need to put something small into context: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Adam Nelson <adam@varud.com >>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I just wanted to respond to many of the issues raised >>>>>>>>>> today about the IEBC, the electronic tallying system, and about open >>>>>>>>>> access. As one of the few non-Kenyans on the list (2 months in Nairobi, >>>>>>>>>> previously NY where I did alot of Python work), maybe I have a unique >>>>>>>>>> outsiders point of view. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Of course, this is not my election, but I it is important >>>>>>>>>> to the world that Kenya has strong institutions and the duty to create and >>>>>>>>>> maintain those institutions lies with everybody. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hardware is likely not the problem here (disk space >>>>>>>>>> comments aside - which are surely do to logical, not physical errors), the >>>>>>>>>> problem is multifaceted: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On this list, there is a strong bias towards "Kenyan >>>>>>>>>> solutions" or "Kenyanborn". Aside from finding this kind of offensive, >>>>>>>>>> it's also just petty and backwards. The reason IEBC exists is not to >>>>>>>>>> support the local ICT industry, it's to facilitate a trustworthy platform >>>>>>>>>> on which Kenyan elections can take place. In addition, there are hundreds >>>>>>>>>> of elections a year around the world and for Kenya to have a one-off system >>>>>>>>>> that has never been used elsewhere and will never be used elsewhere is >>>>>>>>>> neither efficient nor high quality. Maybe the local word processor and >>>>>>>>>> spreadsheet apps should be "Kenyanborn" too? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The general bias towards Kenyan solutions here stems from >>>>>>>>> the fact that most procurements of I.T solutions, for both hardware and >>>>>>>>> software by public institutions in Kenya, is tilted in favour of foreign >>>>>>>>> vending companies. An assumption made is that the imported systems are of >>>>>>>>> higher quality since they were "done abroad" even though this is not always >>>>>>>>> the case. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The issue is that some of the systems end up being done >>>>>>>>> largely by locals. The multi-nationals simply hire Kenyan developers less >>>>>>>>> expensively to do the job right after being awarded the contract but >>>>>>>>> maintain the figures invoiced earlier. In the end they cost a lot of money, >>>>>>>>> for instance the IEBC system that attracted an invoice upwards of 100 >>>>>>>>> million U.S.D. This is not too good especially to our economy's balance of >>>>>>>>> payments. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What people are saying is that we can at least do >>>>>>>>> half-a-decent job, that is all. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Martin. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> .... And now for something completely different: ``A >>>>>>>>> radioactive cat has 18 half-lives.'' [ PyPy ] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> At my last job in the States, almost half the team was >>>>>>>>>> non-American and that was a strength, not a weakness. We don't know what >>>>>>>>>> happened at the IEBC yet, and kudos to the people working to get that data >>>>>>>>>> available, but the failures here cannot be blamed on 'outsiders'. Some of >>>>>>>>>> the commentary is bordering on xenophobic. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> As for openness at the code level, that would certainly >>>>>>>>>> be awesome. Check out this article ( >>>>>>>>>> http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/11/internet-based-and-open-source-how-e...) >>>>>>>>>> and connect with the Brazilians and Australians rather than try to create a >>>>>>>>>> techno-autarky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>> Adam >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/varud >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> +254 712 966 801 <%2B254%20712%20966%20801> >>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/varud >>>>>>>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Bwana Lawi < >>>>>>>>>> mail2lawi@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Cool, we have made up. Hugs and shoulder pats. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Can we get back to the issue at hand now? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> :) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Rad! < >>>>>>>>>>> conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Then I wish you had said that to begin with sans the >>>>>>>>>>>> knee jerk reaction. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I absolutely agree with you about the opening up of the >>>>>>>>>>>> software, and not just that - the processes and >>>>>>>>>>>> procedures followed by all the people in the chain >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Bernard Owuor wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Skunks, >>>>>>>>>>>>> If I knew that this windows-vs-linux thing was so >>>>>>>>>>>>> emotive, I'd have skipped it totally. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> It is really obscuring the point I'm trying to make - >>>>>>>>>>>>> which is - opening up softwares built in the public >>>>>>>>>>>>> interest - not just to strengthen the systems, but also to >>>>>>>>>>>>> foster confidence among the varioius stake-holders. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> @Steve, you're really in agreement with me. We're all >>>>>>>>>>>>> speculating, so treat my "windows 8 server" bashing as just that. Just >>>>>>>>>>>>> between you and me, I know that mysql would complain thus in a Linux system >>>>>>>>>>>>> if it ran out of disk space - because Linux stores locks on the disk. I >>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't know the same happened in windows too. But hey, we're free to >>>>>>>>>>>>> speculate in the absence of information. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> @Rad, a bad workman 'quarrels' with his tool. Most of >>>>>>>>>>>>> those who 'blame' their tools seldom work, thus they don't qualify to be >>>>>>>>>>>>> called workmen of any type.... A good workman selects the right tool for >>>>>>>>>>>>> the job. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>> *From:* Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>> *To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:14 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> See? The last bastion of "professionals" >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Bad craftsmen blame their tools >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical >>>>>>>>>>>>> system? SMDH!!! >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ---- >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind Regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Alex Nyalita >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki < >>>>>>>>>>>>> patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when >>>>>>>>>>>>> you've got all the time in the world; >>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no >>>>>>>>>>>>> idea) >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error >>>>>>>>>>>>> message) >>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of >>>>>>>>>>>>> possible assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages >>>>>>>>>>>>> you've had with different production systems) >>>>>>>>>>>>> 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give >>>>>>>>>>>>> free advise, we know they're reading this - wait, isn't >>>>>>>>>>>>> someone getting paid to do all these??) >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru < >>>>>>>>>>>>> bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation >>>>>>>>>>>>> of lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, >>>>>>>>>>>>> get-your-hands-dirty experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>> What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is >>>>>>>>>>>>> potential design flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or >>>>>>>>>>>>> where. Whiteafrican has a high level call flow on the various >>>>>>>>>>>>> interconnecting elements. >>>>>>>>>>>>> We can use that for starters. >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ >>>>>>>>>>>>> ./bernard >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" < >>>>>>>>>>>>> techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> It's our professional duty and responsibility to >>>>>>>>>>>>> question this. In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and >>>>>>>>>>>>> inasmuch as we acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it >>>>>>>>>>>>> under the carpet and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain >>>>>>>>>>>>> irresponsible. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, >>>>>>>>>>>>> even clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client >>>>>>>>>>>>> paying 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who >>>>>>>>>>>>> undercut us. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, back to issue at hand. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> @Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a >>>>>>>>>>>>> proper voting >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> @Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With >>>>>>>>>>>>> screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had >>>>>>>>>>>>> already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the >>>>>>>>>>>>> failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the >>>>>>>>>>>>> data is already at IEBC servers? >>>>>>>>>>>>> What would be the technological reason for the system to >>>>>>>>>>>>> stop processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is >>>>>>>>>>>>> being done by google from IEBC servers. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> So what exactly is failing? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki < >>>>>>>>>>>>> shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Skunks, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Pole for the delay in results. >>>>>>>>>>>>> These are the kind of things that make people suspicious >>>>>>>>>>>>> and not trust local ICT professionals. >>>>>>>>>>>>> The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. >>>>>>>>>>>>> All they know is that 9b of their money was spent >>>>>>>>>>>>> on the systems. >>>>>>>>>>>>> The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that >>>>>>>>>>>>> they can be managed by a powerful desk top on any >>>>>>>>>>>>> relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent >>>>>>>>>>>>> submission of results because all that is need is a good queue >>>>>>>>>>>>> management algorith. >>>>>>>>>>>>> A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic >>>>>>>>>>>>> from polling stations >>>>>>>>>>>>> As have al >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing listskunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribehttp://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Skunkworks Ruleshttp://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This message contains confidential information and is >>>>>>>> intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee >>>>>>>> you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify >>>>>>>> the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by >>>>>>>> mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot >>>>>>>> be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be >>>>>>>> intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or >>>>>>>> contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any >>>>>>>> errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a >>>>>>>> result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a >>>>>>>> hard-copy version. >>>>>>>> *Kenya Data Networks,* *Tel: +254(20)5000000,* *www.kdn.co.ke >>>>>>>> * >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>> Odhiambo WASHINGTON, >>>>>> Nairobi,KE >>>>>> +254733744121/+254722743223 >>>>>> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ >>>>>> I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> skunkworks mailing listskunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>> ------------ >>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribehttp://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>> ------------ >>>>>> >>>>>> Skunkworks Ruleshttp://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>> ------------ >>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> This message contains confidential information and is intended >>>>>> only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you >>>>>> should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the >>>>>> sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake >>>>>> and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be >>>>>> guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, >>>>>> corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. >>>>>> The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions >>>>>> in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail >>>>>> transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy >>>>>> version. >>>>>> *Kenya Data Networks,* *Tel: +254(20)5000000,* *www.kdn.co.ke* >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>> ------------ >>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>> ------------ >>>>>> >>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>> ------------ >>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> Odhiambo WASHINGTON, >>>>> Nairobi,KE >>>>> +254733744121/+254722743223 >>>>> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ >>>>> I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>> ------------ >>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>> ------------ >>>>> >>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>> ------------ >>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>> ------------ >>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>> ------------ >>>> >>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>> ------------ >>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Best regards, >>> Odhiambo WASHINGTON, >>> Nairobi,KE >>> +254733744121/+254722743223 >>> "I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler." >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> skunkworks mailing list >>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>> ------------ >>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>> ------------ >>> >>> Skunkworks Rules >>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>> ------------ >>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> skunkworks mailing list >> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >> ------------ >> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >> ------------ >> >> Skunkworks Rules >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >> ------------ >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Odhiambo WASHINGTON, > Nairobi,KE > +254733744121/+254722743223 > "I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler." > > _______________________________________________ > skunkworks mailing list > skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > ------------ > List info, subscribe/unsubscribe > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
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-- Peter Muchemi Software Developer Electra Software Ltd http://www.software.co.ke +254 722 320986
Because the company that developed it preferred Python. On 15 July 2013 15:01, Peter Muchemi <pmuchemi@gmail.com> wrote:
This query is directed to language masters? Why python?
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Antony Kimani <kimanianthoni@gmail.com>wrote:
system is ok provided by crimson logic but hosting the system in Kenya is the issue, the 5w and 1h on the hosting company.
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 10:10 AM, Simon Wainaina <swainaina@gmail.com>wrote:
by the way which country is providing the system? singapore? what system is it? i know it has been identified but not sure which one
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 9:10 AM, Antony Kimani <kimanianthoni@gmail.com>wrote:
as you all still cry over IEBC systems, I think it is a prime time now we scutinize a million dollar system (funded by taxpayer) to be implemented by KENTRADE to allow clearing and fowarding to be seamless.
antony...
On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 11:00 PM, Martin Akolo Chiteri < martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote:
A person was also kind enough to write an article about it < http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/07/estonia-publishes-its-e-voting-so...
Martin.
On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 10:53 PM, Martin Akolo Chiteri < martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
Sorry, I understand that people ``moved on'' away from this topic a long time ago.
Some interesting developments I bumped into recently. The sources to Estonia's E-voting system are now open: < https://github.com/vvk-ehk/evalimine >
A large chunk of it is written in Python, just from a quick glance ...... O.k, actually the whole of it.
Martin.
On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 4:28 PM, Martin Chiteri < martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 4:25 PM, Odhiambo Washington < > odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Haiya! You go to court. Small advise though - Okiya Okoiti Omtatah >> may be willing to accompany you. >> >> Actually I meant, "I refuse ...... to prove you wrong.". And as you > said, people have moved on. > > Martin. > >> >> On 16 April 2013 16:15, Martin Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com>wrote: >> >>> @Wash, >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 3:36 PM, Odhiambo Washington < >>> odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> We have "moved on"! >>>> >>>> In one of todays dailies, UNDP offered to fund the audit of IEBC >>>> systems on condition that IEBC allows an outside body to participate in the >>>> audit process. Guess what? IEBC has refused and only want to audit itself >>>> internally. So why worry about what went wrong anyway? >>>> Perhaps we need to go to court to seek authority for external >>>> audit of IEBC, funded by UNDP of course. I can bet 100% that none of us >>>> really cares about that! >>>> Prove me wrong. >>>> >>>> I refuse! :-) >>> >>> Martin. >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 16 April 2013 15:01, Martin Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com>wrote: >>>> >>>>> I was hoping someone would post or comment on this link here: >>>>> http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000081518&story_title=Kenya--IT-a... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Martin. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 2:04 PM, Odhiambo Washington < >>>>> odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Heheee.. It's not only Western Media. Some Kenyan bloggers keen >>>>>> on being very controversial and very nasty have it too.. >>>>>> Check out our own (Kenya's) Robert Alai doing his verbal >>>>>> diarrhea here -> http://lix.in/-c9fe46 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 7 March 2013 13:59, Dan Kwach <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> @ Wash... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Wewe...heshimu Western media...the guys know thea stuff...:-D >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dan O.Kwach. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 3/7/2013 1:48 PM, Odhiambo Washington wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> +1 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It's the first time I heard on a p2p VPN requiring a RDBMs to >>>>>>> run:-) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 7 March 2013 13:44, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com>wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "The Safaricom Virtual Private Network that runs on >>>>>>>> Oracle ...." >>>>>>>> I stopped there...smh. >>>>>>>> If you're going to speculate, at least use an intelligent >>>>>>>> guess. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ./bernard >>>>>>>> On Mar 7, 2013 1:39 PM, "Dan Kwach" <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://intelligencebriefs.com/?p=3413 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Not sure how accurate the above is though...I think >>>>>>>>> speculation is too rife for anyone to know the exact truth.. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Rgds, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dan O.Kwach. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 3/7/2013 10:18 AM, Bogi Benga wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> word round is that the system was hacked >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/kenyan-election-2013/evans-ondieki-iebc-all... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Anyone who can shed more light on this? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 8:45 AM, Martin Chiteri < >>>>>>>>> martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Nelson, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thank you for your comments, they are all very sound. I >>>>>>>>>> just need to put something small into context: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Adam Nelson < >>>>>>>>>> adam@varud.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I just wanted to respond to many of the issues raised >>>>>>>>>>> today about the IEBC, the electronic tallying system, and about open >>>>>>>>>>> access. As one of the few non-Kenyans on the list (2 months in Nairobi, >>>>>>>>>>> previously NY where I did alot of Python work), maybe I have a unique >>>>>>>>>>> outsiders point of view. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Of course, this is not my election, but I it is >>>>>>>>>>> important to the world that Kenya has strong institutions and the duty to >>>>>>>>>>> create and maintain those institutions lies with everybody. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hardware is likely not the problem here (disk space >>>>>>>>>>> comments aside - which are surely do to logical, not physical errors), the >>>>>>>>>>> problem is multifaceted: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On this list, there is a strong bias towards "Kenyan >>>>>>>>>>> solutions" or "Kenyanborn". Aside from finding this kind of offensive, >>>>>>>>>>> it's also just petty and backwards. The reason IEBC exists is not to >>>>>>>>>>> support the local ICT industry, it's to facilitate a trustworthy platform >>>>>>>>>>> on which Kenyan elections can take place. In addition, there are hundreds >>>>>>>>>>> of elections a year around the world and for Kenya to have a one-off system >>>>>>>>>>> that has never been used elsewhere and will never be used elsewhere is >>>>>>>>>>> neither efficient nor high quality. Maybe the local word processor and >>>>>>>>>>> spreadsheet apps should be "Kenyanborn" too? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The general bias towards Kenyan solutions here stems from >>>>>>>>>> the fact that most procurements of I.T solutions, for both hardware and >>>>>>>>>> software by public institutions in Kenya, is tilted in favour of foreign >>>>>>>>>> vending companies. An assumption made is that the imported systems are of >>>>>>>>>> higher quality since they were "done abroad" even though this is not always >>>>>>>>>> the case. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The issue is that some of the systems end up being done >>>>>>>>>> largely by locals. The multi-nationals simply hire Kenyan developers less >>>>>>>>>> expensively to do the job right after being awarded the contract but >>>>>>>>>> maintain the figures invoiced earlier. In the end they cost a lot of money, >>>>>>>>>> for instance the IEBC system that attracted an invoice upwards of 100 >>>>>>>>>> million U.S.D. This is not too good especially to our economy's balance of >>>>>>>>>> payments. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> What people are saying is that we can at least do >>>>>>>>>> half-a-decent job, that is all. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Martin. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> .... And now for something completely different: ``A >>>>>>>>>> radioactive cat has 18 half-lives.'' [ PyPy ] >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> At my last job in the States, almost half the team was >>>>>>>>>>> non-American and that was a strength, not a weakness. We don't know what >>>>>>>>>>> happened at the IEBC yet, and kudos to the people working to get that data >>>>>>>>>>> available, but the failures here cannot be blamed on 'outsiders'. Some of >>>>>>>>>>> the commentary is bordering on xenophobic. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> As for openness at the code level, that would certainly >>>>>>>>>>> be awesome. Check out this article ( >>>>>>>>>>> http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/11/internet-based-and-open-source-how-e...) >>>>>>>>>>> and connect with the Brazilians and Australians rather than try to create a >>>>>>>>>>> techno-autarky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>>> Adam >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/varud >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> +254 712 966 801 <%2B254%20712%20966%20801> >>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/varud >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Bwana Lawi < >>>>>>>>>>> mail2lawi@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Cool, we have made up. Hugs and shoulder pats. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Can we get back to the issue at hand now? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> :) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Rad! < >>>>>>>>>>>> conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Then I wish you had said that to begin with sans the >>>>>>>>>>>>> knee jerk reaction. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I absolutely agree with you about the opening up of >>>>>>>>>>>>> the software, and not just that - the processes and >>>>>>>>>>>>> procedures followed by all the people in the chain >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Bernard Owuor wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Skunks, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> If I knew that this windows-vs-linux thing was so >>>>>>>>>>>>>> emotive, I'd have skipped it totally. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is really obscuring the point I'm trying to make - >>>>>>>>>>>>>> which is - opening up softwares built in the public >>>>>>>>>>>>>> interest - not just to strengthen the systems, but >>>>>>>>>>>>>> also to foster confidence among the varioius >>>>>>>>>>>>>> stake-holders. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> @Steve, you're really in agreement with me. We're all >>>>>>>>>>>>>> speculating, so treat my "windows 8 server" bashing as just that. Just >>>>>>>>>>>>>> between you and me, I know that mysql would complain thus in a Linux system >>>>>>>>>>>>>> if it ran out of disk space - because Linux stores locks on the disk. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't know the same happened in windows too. But hey, we're free to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> speculate in the absence of information. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> @Rad, a bad workman 'quarrels' with his tool. Most of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> those who 'blame' their tools seldom work, thus they don't qualify to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> called workmen of any type.... A good workman selects the right tool for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the job. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> *From:* Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> *To:* Skunkworks Mailing List < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:14 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> See? The last bastion of "professionals" >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bad craftsmen blame their tools >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical >>>>>>>>>>>>>> system? SMDH!!! >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind Regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alex Nyalita >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you've got all the time in the world; >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no >>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error >>>>>>>>>>>>>> message) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you've had with different production systems) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give >>>>>>>>>>>>>> free advise, we know they're reading this - wait, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> isn't someone getting paid to do all these??) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> get-your-hands-dirty experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> potential design flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> where. Whiteafrican has a high level call flow on the various >>>>>>>>>>>>>> interconnecting elements. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> We can use that for starters. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ./bernard >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's our professional duty and responsibility to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> question this. In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> inasmuch as we acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> under the carpet and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain >>>>>>>>>>>>>> irresponsible. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> even clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client >>>>>>>>>>>>>> paying 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who >>>>>>>>>>>>>> undercut us. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, back to issue at hand. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> @Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a proper voting >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> @Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With >>>>>>>>>>>>>> screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had >>>>>>>>>>>>>> already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> data is already at IEBC servers? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> What would be the technological reason for the system >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to stop processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> being done by google from IEBC servers. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> So what exactly is failing? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Skunks, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pole for the delay in results. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> These are the kind of things that make people >>>>>>>>>>>>>> suspicious and not trust local ICT professionals. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The public has no idea if th system is foreign or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> local. All they know is that 9b of their money was spent >>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the systems. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that they can be managed by a powerful desk top on any >>>>>>>>>>>>>> relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent >>>>>>>>>>>>>> submission of results because all that is need is a good queue >>>>>>>>>>>>>> management algorith. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic >>>>>>>>>>>>>> from polling stations >>>>>>>>>>>>>> As have al >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing listskunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribehttp://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Ruleshttp://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This message contains confidential information and is >>>>>>>>> intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee >>>>>>>>> you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify >>>>>>>>> the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by >>>>>>>>> mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot >>>>>>>>> be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be >>>>>>>>> intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or >>>>>>>>> contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any >>>>>>>>> errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a >>>>>>>>> result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a >>>>>>>>> hard-copy version. >>>>>>>>> *Kenya Data Networks,* *Tel: +254(20)5000000,* * >>>>>>>>> www.kdn.co.ke* >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>> Odhiambo WASHINGTON, >>>>>>> Nairobi,KE >>>>>>> +254733744121/+254722743223 >>>>>>> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ >>>>>>> I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> skunkworks mailing listskunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribehttp://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Skunkworks Ruleshttp://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This message contains confidential information and is intended >>>>>>> only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you >>>>>>> should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the >>>>>>> sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake >>>>>>> and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be >>>>>>> guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, >>>>>>> corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. >>>>>>> The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions >>>>>>> in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail >>>>>>> transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy >>>>>>> version. >>>>>>> *Kenya Data Networks,* *Tel: +254(20)5000000,* *www.kdn.co.ke* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>> Odhiambo WASHINGTON, >>>>>> Nairobi,KE >>>>>> +254733744121/+254722743223 >>>>>> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ >>>>>> I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>> ------------ >>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>> ------------ >>>>>> >>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>> ------------ >>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>> ------------ >>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>> ------------ >>>>> >>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>> ------------ >>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Best regards, >>>> Odhiambo WASHINGTON, >>>> Nairobi,KE >>>> +254733744121/+254722743223 >>>> "I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler." >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>> ------------ >>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>> ------------ >>>> >>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>> ------------ >>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> skunkworks mailing list >>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>> ------------ >>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>> ------------ >>> >>> Skunkworks Rules >>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>> ------------ >>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Odhiambo WASHINGTON, >> Nairobi,KE >> +254733744121/+254722743223 >> "I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler." >> >> _______________________________________________ >> skunkworks mailing list >> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >> ------------ >> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >> ------------ >> >> Skunkworks Rules >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >> ------------ >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >> > >
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-- Peter Muchemi Software Developer Electra Software Ltd http://www.software.co.ke +254 722 320986
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-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 "I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler."
Anyone else with a different opinion? On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 3:05 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>wrote:
Because the company that developed it preferred Python.
On 15 July 2013 15:01, Peter Muchemi <pmuchemi@gmail.com> wrote:
This query is directed to language masters? Why python?
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Antony Kimani <kimanianthoni@gmail.com>wrote:
system is ok provided by crimson logic but hosting the system in Kenya is the issue, the 5w and 1h on the hosting company.
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 10:10 AM, Simon Wainaina <swainaina@gmail.com>wrote:
by the way which country is providing the system? singapore? what system is it? i know it has been identified but not sure which one
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 9:10 AM, Antony Kimani <kimanianthoni@gmail.com
wrote:
as you all still cry over IEBC systems, I think it is a prime time now we scutinize a million dollar system (funded by taxpayer) to be implemented by KENTRADE to allow clearing and fowarding to be seamless.
antony...
On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 11:00 PM, Martin Akolo Chiteri < martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote:
A person was also kind enough to write an article about it < http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/07/estonia-publishes-its-e-voting-so... >
Martin.
On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 10:53 PM, Martin Akolo Chiteri < martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all, > > Sorry, I understand that people ``moved on'' away from this topic a > long time ago. > > Some interesting developments I bumped into recently. The sources to > Estonia's E-voting system are now open: < > https://github.com/vvk-ehk/evalimine > > > A large chunk of it is written in Python, just from a quick glance > ...... O.k, actually the whole of it. > > Martin. > > > On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 4:28 PM, Martin Chiteri < > martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 4:25 PM, Odhiambo Washington < >> odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Haiya! You go to court. Small advise though - Okiya Okoiti Omtatah >>> may be willing to accompany you. >>> >>> Actually I meant, "I refuse ...... to prove you wrong.". And as >> you said, people have moved on. >> >> Martin. >> >>> >>> On 16 April 2013 16:15, Martin Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com>wrote: >>> >>>> @Wash, >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 3:36 PM, Odhiambo Washington < >>>> odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> We have "moved on"! >>>>> >>>>> In one of todays dailies, UNDP offered to fund the audit of IEBC >>>>> systems on condition that IEBC allows an outside body to participate in the >>>>> audit process. Guess what? IEBC has refused and only want to audit itself >>>>> internally. So why worry about what went wrong anyway? >>>>> Perhaps we need to go to court to seek authority for external >>>>> audit of IEBC, funded by UNDP of course. I can bet 100% that none of us >>>>> really cares about that! >>>>> Prove me wrong. >>>>> >>>>> I refuse! :-) >>>> >>>> Martin. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 16 April 2013 15:01, Martin Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com >>>>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I was hoping someone would post or comment on this link here: >>>>>> http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000081518&story_title=Kenya--IT-a... >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Martin. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 2:04 PM, Odhiambo Washington < >>>>>> odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Heheee.. It's not only Western Media. Some Kenyan bloggers >>>>>>> keen on being very controversial and very nasty have it too.. >>>>>>> Check out our own (Kenya's) Robert Alai doing his verbal >>>>>>> diarrhea here -> http://lix.in/-c9fe46 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 7 March 2013 13:59, Dan Kwach <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> @ Wash... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Wewe...heshimu Western media...the guys know thea stuff...:-D >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dan O.Kwach. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 3/7/2013 1:48 PM, Odhiambo Washington wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> +1 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It's the first time I heard on a p2p VPN requiring a RDBMs to >>>>>>>> run:-) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 7 March 2013 13:44, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com>wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> "The Safaricom Virtual Private Network that runs on >>>>>>>>> Oracle ...." >>>>>>>>> I stopped there...smh. >>>>>>>>> If you're going to speculate, at least use an intelligent >>>>>>>>> guess. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ./bernard >>>>>>>>> On Mar 7, 2013 1:39 PM, "Dan Kwach" <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://intelligencebriefs.com/?p=3413 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Not sure how accurate the above is though...I think >>>>>>>>>> speculation is too rife for anyone to know the exact >>>>>>>>>> truth.. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Rgds, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Dan O.Kwach. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 3/7/2013 10:18 AM, Bogi Benga wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> word round is that the system was hacked >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/kenyan-election-2013/evans-ondieki-iebc-all... >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Anyone who can shed more light on this? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 8:45 AM, Martin Chiteri < >>>>>>>>>> martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Nelson, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for your comments, they are all very sound. I >>>>>>>>>>> just need to put something small into context: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Adam Nelson < >>>>>>>>>>> adam@varud.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I just wanted to respond to many of the issues raised >>>>>>>>>>>> today about the IEBC, the electronic tallying system, and about open >>>>>>>>>>>> access. As one of the few non-Kenyans on the list (2 months in Nairobi, >>>>>>>>>>>> previously NY where I did alot of Python work), maybe I have a unique >>>>>>>>>>>> outsiders point of view. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, this is not my election, but I it is >>>>>>>>>>>> important to the world that Kenya has strong institutions and the duty to >>>>>>>>>>>> create and maintain those institutions lies with everybody. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hardware is likely not the problem here (disk space >>>>>>>>>>>> comments aside - which are surely do to logical, not physical errors), the >>>>>>>>>>>> problem is multifaceted: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On this list, there is a strong bias towards "Kenyan >>>>>>>>>>>> solutions" or "Kenyanborn". Aside from finding this kind of offensive, >>>>>>>>>>>> it's also just petty and backwards. The reason IEBC exists is not to >>>>>>>>>>>> support the local ICT industry, it's to facilitate a trustworthy platform >>>>>>>>>>>> on which Kenyan elections can take place. In addition, there are hundreds >>>>>>>>>>>> of elections a year around the world and for Kenya to have a one-off system >>>>>>>>>>>> that has never been used elsewhere and will never be used elsewhere is >>>>>>>>>>>> neither efficient nor high quality. Maybe the local word processor and >>>>>>>>>>>> spreadsheet apps should be "Kenyanborn" too? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The general bias towards Kenyan solutions here stems >>>>>>>>>>> from the fact that most procurements of I.T solutions, for both hardware >>>>>>>>>>> and software by public institutions in Kenya, is tilted in favour of >>>>>>>>>>> foreign vending companies. An assumption made is that the imported systems >>>>>>>>>>> are of higher quality since they were "done abroad" even though this is not >>>>>>>>>>> always the case. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The issue is that some of the systems end up being done >>>>>>>>>>> largely by locals. The multi-nationals simply hire Kenyan developers less >>>>>>>>>>> expensively to do the job right after being awarded the contract but >>>>>>>>>>> maintain the figures invoiced earlier. In the end they cost a lot of money, >>>>>>>>>>> for instance the IEBC system that attracted an invoice upwards of 100 >>>>>>>>>>> million U.S.D. This is not too good especially to our economy's balance of >>>>>>>>>>> payments. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> What people are saying is that we can at least do >>>>>>>>>>> half-a-decent job, that is all. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Martin. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> .... And now for something completely different: ``A >>>>>>>>>>> radioactive cat has 18 half-lives.'' [ PyPy ] >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> At my last job in the States, almost half the team was >>>>>>>>>>>> non-American and that was a strength, not a weakness. We don't know what >>>>>>>>>>>> happened at the IEBC yet, and kudos to the people working to get that data >>>>>>>>>>>> available, but the failures here cannot be blamed on 'outsiders'. Some of >>>>>>>>>>>> the commentary is bordering on xenophobic. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> As for openness at the code level, that would certainly >>>>>>>>>>>> be awesome. Check out this article ( >>>>>>>>>>>> http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/11/internet-based-and-open-source-how-e...) >>>>>>>>>>>> and connect with the Brazilians and Australians rather than try to create a >>>>>>>>>>>> techno-autarky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky). >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>>>> Adam >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/varud >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> +254 712 966 801 <%2B254%20712%20966%20801> >>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/varud >>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Bwana Lawi < >>>>>>>>>>>> mail2lawi@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Cool, we have made up. Hugs and shoulder pats. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Can we get back to the issue at hand now? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> :) >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Rad! < >>>>>>>>>>>>> conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then I wish you had said that to begin with sans the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> knee jerk reaction. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I absolutely agree with you about the opening up of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the software, and not just that - the processes and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> procedures followed by all the people in the chain >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Bernard Owuor wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Skunks, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If I knew that this windows-vs-linux thing was so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emotive, I'd have skipped it totally. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is really obscuring the point I'm trying to make - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which is - opening up softwares built in the public >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interest - not just to strengthen the systems, but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also to foster confidence among the varioius >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stake-holders. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @Steve, you're really in agreement with me. We're all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> speculating, so treat my "windows 8 server" bashing as just that. Just >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> between you and me, I know that mysql would complain thus in a Linux system >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if it ran out of disk space - because Linux stores locks on the disk. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't know the same happened in windows too. But hey, we're free to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> speculate in the absence of information. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @Rad, a bad workman 'quarrels' with his tool. Most of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those who 'blame' their tools seldom work, thus they don't qualify to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> called workmen of any type.... A good workman selects the right tool for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the job. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *From:* Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *To:* Skunkworks Mailing List < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:14 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> See? The last bastion of "professionals" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bad craftsmen blame their tools >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> system? SMDH!!! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind Regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alex Nyalita >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you've got all the time in the world; >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you've had with different production systems) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4. What is to be done to avoid future >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> occurrences?(give free advise, we know they're reading this - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wait, isn't someone getting paid to do all these??) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I've noticed I'm my short experience is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> decimation of lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hands-on, get-your-hands-dirty experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> potential design flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where. Whiteafrican has a high level call flow on the various >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interconnecting elements. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We can use that for starters. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ./bernard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's our professional duty and responsibility to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question this. In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inasmuch as we acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> under the carpet and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> irresponsible. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> even clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> paying 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> undercut us. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, back to issue at hand. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a proper voting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> data is already at IEBC servers? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What would be the technological reason for the system >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to stop processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being done by google from IEBC servers. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So what exactly is failing? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Skunks, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pole for the delay in results. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> These are the kind of things that make people >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suspicious and not trust local ICT professionals. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The public has no idea if th system is foreign or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> local. All they know is that 9b of their money was spent >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the systems. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that they can be managed by a powerful desk top on any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> submission of results because all that is need is a good queue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> management algorith. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from polling stations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As have al >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing listskunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribehttp://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Ruleshttp://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This message contains confidential information and is >>>>>>>>>> intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee >>>>>>>>>> you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify >>>>>>>>>> the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by >>>>>>>>>> mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot >>>>>>>>>> be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be >>>>>>>>>> intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or >>>>>>>>>> contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any >>>>>>>>>> errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a >>>>>>>>>> result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a >>>>>>>>>> hard-copy version. >>>>>>>>>> *Kenya Data Networks,* *Tel: +254(20)5000000,* * >>>>>>>>>> www.kdn.co.ke* >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>>> Odhiambo WASHINGTON, >>>>>>>> Nairobi,KE >>>>>>>> +254733744121/+254722743223 >>>>>>>> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ >>>>>>>> I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing listskunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribehttp://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Skunkworks Ruleshttp://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This message contains confidential information and is >>>>>>>> intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee >>>>>>>> you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify >>>>>>>> the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by >>>>>>>> mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot >>>>>>>> be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be >>>>>>>> intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or >>>>>>>> contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any >>>>>>>> errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a >>>>>>>> result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a >>>>>>>> hard-copy version. >>>>>>>> *Kenya Data Networks,* *Tel: +254(20)5000000,* *www.kdn.co.ke >>>>>>>> * >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>> Odhiambo WASHINGTON, >>>>>>> Nairobi,KE >>>>>>> +254733744121/+254722743223 >>>>>>> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ >>>>>>> I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>> ------------ >>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>> ------------ >>>>>> >>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>> ------------ >>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> Odhiambo WASHINGTON, >>>>> Nairobi,KE >>>>> +254733744121/+254722743223 >>>>> "I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler." >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>> ------------ >>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>> ------------ >>>>> >>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>> ------------ >>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>> ------------ >>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>> ------------ >>>> >>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>> ------------ >>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Best regards, >>> Odhiambo WASHINGTON, >>> Nairobi,KE >>> +254733744121/+254722743223 >>> "I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler." >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> skunkworks mailing list >>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>> ------------ >>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>> ------------ >>> >>> Skunkworks Rules >>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>> ------------ >>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>> >> >> >
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The Python interpreter is very simple and powerful. That one I know for a fact. The language's abstract machine also has a fairly small footprint and is quite flexible. Martin. Python advocacy at its best: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/3882 Adrian Holovaty (django co-founder and a godfather of data journalism) on the beauty of Python: < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNTALycYJWY > -- ``You should write code because it's fun — because it's wonderful to create machines with your mind. Hugely empowering. Emotionally gratifying. Software is math-in-motion. It's a miracle of the mind. And if you can do it, really well, there's absolutely nothing like it." [ Dave Winer ] On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 3:08 PM, Peter Muchemi <pmuchemi@gmail.com> wrote:
Anyone else with a different opinion?
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 3:05 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>wrote:
Because the company that developed it preferred Python.
On 15 July 2013 15:01, Peter Muchemi <pmuchemi@gmail.com> wrote:
This query is directed to language masters? Why python?
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Antony Kimani <kimanianthoni@gmail.com
wrote:
system is ok provided by crimson logic but hosting the system in Kenya is the issue, the 5w and 1h on the hosting company.
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 10:10 AM, Simon Wainaina <swainaina@gmail.com>wrote:
by the way which country is providing the system? singapore? what system is it? i know it has been identified but not sure which one
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 9:10 AM, Antony Kimani < kimanianthoni@gmail.com> wrote:
as you all still cry over IEBC systems, I think it is a prime time now we scutinize a million dollar system (funded by taxpayer) to be implemented by KENTRADE to allow clearing and fowarding to be seamless.
antony...
On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 11:00 PM, Martin Akolo Chiteri < martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote:
> A person was also kind enough to write an article about it < > http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/07/estonia-publishes-its-e-voting-so... > > > > Martin. > > > On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 10:53 PM, Martin Akolo Chiteri < > martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> Sorry, I understand that people ``moved on'' away from this topic a >> long time ago. >> >> Some interesting developments I bumped into recently. The sources >> to Estonia's E-voting system are now open: < >> https://github.com/vvk-ehk/evalimine > >> >> A large chunk of it is written in Python, just from a quick glance >> ...... O.k, actually the whole of it. >> >> Martin. >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 4:28 PM, Martin Chiteri < >> martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 4:25 PM, Odhiambo Washington < >>> odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Haiya! You go to court. Small advise though - Okiya Okoiti >>>> Omtatah may be willing to accompany you. >>>> >>>> Actually I meant, "I refuse ...... to prove you wrong.". And as >>> you said, people have moved on. >>> >>> Martin. >>> >>>> >>>> On 16 April 2013 16:15, Martin Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com>wrote: >>>> >>>>> @Wash, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 3:36 PM, Odhiambo Washington < >>>>> odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> We have "moved on"! >>>>>> >>>>>> In one of todays dailies, UNDP offered to fund the audit of >>>>>> IEBC systems on condition that IEBC allows an outside body to participate >>>>>> in the audit process. Guess what? IEBC has refused and only want to audit >>>>>> itself internally. So why worry about what went wrong anyway? >>>>>> Perhaps we need to go to court to seek authority for external >>>>>> audit of IEBC, funded by UNDP of course. I can bet 100% that none of us >>>>>> really cares about that! >>>>>> Prove me wrong. >>>>>> >>>>>> I refuse! :-) >>>>> >>>>> Martin. >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 16 April 2013 15:01, Martin Chiteri < >>>>>> martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I was hoping someone would post or comment on this link here: >>>>>>> http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000081518&story_title=Kenya--IT-a... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Martin. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 2:04 PM, Odhiambo Washington < >>>>>>> odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Heheee.. It's not only Western Media. Some Kenyan bloggers >>>>>>>> keen on being very controversial and very nasty have it too.. >>>>>>>> Check out our own (Kenya's) Robert Alai doing his verbal >>>>>>>> diarrhea here -> http://lix.in/-c9fe46 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 7 March 2013 13:59, Dan Kwach <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> @ Wash... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Wewe...heshimu Western media...the guys know thea stuff...:-D >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dan O.Kwach. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 3/7/2013 1:48 PM, Odhiambo Washington wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> +1 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It's the first time I heard on a p2p VPN requiring a RDBMs >>>>>>>>> to run:-) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 7 March 2013 13:44, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com>wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> "The Safaricom Virtual Private Network that runs on >>>>>>>>>> Oracle ...." >>>>>>>>>> I stopped there...smh. >>>>>>>>>> If you're going to speculate, at least use an intelligent >>>>>>>>>> guess. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ./bernard >>>>>>>>>> On Mar 7, 2013 1:39 PM, "Dan Kwach" <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://intelligencebriefs.com/?p=3413 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Not sure how accurate the above is though...I think >>>>>>>>>>> speculation is too rife for anyone to know the exact >>>>>>>>>>> truth.. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Rgds, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Dan O.Kwach. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 3/7/2013 10:18 AM, Bogi Benga wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> word round is that the system was hacked >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/kenyan-election-2013/evans-ondieki-iebc-all... >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Anyone who can shed more light on this? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 8:45 AM, Martin Chiteri < >>>>>>>>>>> martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Nelson, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for your comments, they are all very sound. I >>>>>>>>>>>> just need to put something small into context: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Adam Nelson < >>>>>>>>>>>> adam@varud.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I just wanted to respond to many of the issues raised >>>>>>>>>>>>> today about the IEBC, the electronic tallying system, and about open >>>>>>>>>>>>> access. As one of the few non-Kenyans on the list (2 months in Nairobi, >>>>>>>>>>>>> previously NY where I did alot of Python work), maybe I have a unique >>>>>>>>>>>>> outsiders point of view. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, this is not my election, but I it is >>>>>>>>>>>>> important to the world that Kenya has strong institutions and the duty to >>>>>>>>>>>>> create and maintain those institutions lies with everybody. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hardware is likely not the problem here (disk space >>>>>>>>>>>>> comments aside - which are surely do to logical, not physical errors), the >>>>>>>>>>>>> problem is multifaceted: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On this list, there is a strong bias towards "Kenyan >>>>>>>>>>>>> solutions" or "Kenyanborn". Aside from finding this kind of offensive, >>>>>>>>>>>>> it's also just petty and backwards. The reason IEBC exists is not to >>>>>>>>>>>>> support the local ICT industry, it's to facilitate a trustworthy platform >>>>>>>>>>>>> on which Kenyan elections can take place. In addition, there are hundreds >>>>>>>>>>>>> of elections a year around the world and for Kenya to have a one-off system >>>>>>>>>>>>> that has never been used elsewhere and will never be used elsewhere is >>>>>>>>>>>>> neither efficient nor high quality. Maybe the local word processor and >>>>>>>>>>>>> spreadsheet apps should be "Kenyanborn" too? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The general bias towards Kenyan solutions here stems >>>>>>>>>>>> from the fact that most procurements of I.T solutions, for both hardware >>>>>>>>>>>> and software by public institutions in Kenya, is tilted in favour of >>>>>>>>>>>> foreign vending companies. An assumption made is that the imported systems >>>>>>>>>>>> are of higher quality since they were "done abroad" even though this is not >>>>>>>>>>>> always the case. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The issue is that some of the systems end up being done >>>>>>>>>>>> largely by locals. The multi-nationals simply hire Kenyan developers less >>>>>>>>>>>> expensively to do the job right after being awarded the contract but >>>>>>>>>>>> maintain the figures invoiced earlier. In the end they cost a lot of money, >>>>>>>>>>>> for instance the IEBC system that attracted an invoice upwards of 100 >>>>>>>>>>>> million U.S.D. This is not too good especially to our economy's balance of >>>>>>>>>>>> payments. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> What people are saying is that we can at least do >>>>>>>>>>>> half-a-decent job, that is all. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Martin. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> .... And now for something completely different: ``A >>>>>>>>>>>> radioactive cat has 18 half-lives.'' [ PyPy ] >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> At my last job in the States, almost half the team was >>>>>>>>>>>>> non-American and that was a strength, not a weakness. We don't know what >>>>>>>>>>>>> happened at the IEBC yet, and kudos to the people working to get that data >>>>>>>>>>>>> available, but the failures here cannot be blamed on 'outsiders'. Some of >>>>>>>>>>>>> the commentary is bordering on xenophobic. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> As for openness at the code level, that would >>>>>>>>>>>>> certainly be awesome. Check out this article ( >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/11/internet-based-and-open-source-how-e...) >>>>>>>>>>>>> and connect with the Brazilians and Australians rather than try to create a >>>>>>>>>>>>> techno-autarky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky). >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Adam >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/varud >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> +254 712 966 801 <%2B254%20712%20966%20801> >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/varud >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Bwana Lawi < >>>>>>>>>>>>> mail2lawi@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cool, we have made up. Hugs and shoulder pats. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can we get back to the issue at hand now? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> :) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Rad! < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then I wish you had said that to begin with sans the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knee jerk reaction. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I absolutely agree with you about the opening up of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the software, and not just that - the processes and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> procedures followed by all the people in the chain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Bernard Owuor wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Skunks, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If I knew that this windows-vs-linux thing was so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emotive, I'd have skipped it totally. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is really obscuring the point I'm trying to make - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which is - opening up softwares built in the public >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interest - not just to strengthen the systems, but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also to foster confidence among the varioius >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stake-holders. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @Steve, you're really in agreement with me. We're all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> speculating, so treat my "windows 8 server" bashing as just that. Just >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> between you and me, I know that mysql would complain thus in a Linux system >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if it ran out of disk space - because Linux stores locks on the disk. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't know the same happened in windows too. But hey, we're free to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> speculate in the absence of information. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @Rad, a bad workman 'quarrels' with his tool. Most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of those who 'blame' their tools seldom work, thus they don't qualify to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> called workmen of any type.... A good workman selects the right tool for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the job. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *From:* Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *To:* Skunkworks Mailing List < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:14 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> See? The last bastion of "professionals" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bad craftsmen blame their tools >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> system? SMDH!!! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind Regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alex Nyalita >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you've got all the time in the world; >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you've had with different production systems) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4. What is to be done to avoid future >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> occurrences?(give free advise, we know they're reading this - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wait, isn't someone getting paid to do all these??) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I've noticed I'm my short experience is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> decimation of lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hands-on, get-your-hands-dirty experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> potential design flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where. Whiteafrican has a high level call flow on the various >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interconnecting elements. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We can use that for starters. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ./bernard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's our professional duty and responsibility to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question this. In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inasmuch as we acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> under the carpet and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> irresponsible. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Most of you know how much clients ride you to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deliver, even clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> client paying 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who undercut us. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, back to issue at hand. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conceptualize a proper voting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> data is already at IEBC servers? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What would be the technological reason for the system >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to stop processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being done by google from IEBC servers. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So what exactly is failing? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Skunks, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pole for the delay in results. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> These are the kind of things that make people >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suspicious and not trust local ICT professionals. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The public has no idea if th system is foreign or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> local. All they know is that 9b of their money was spent >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the systems. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that they can be managed by a powerful desk top on any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> submission of results because all that is need is a good queue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> management algorith. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from polling stations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As have al >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing listskunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribehttp://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Ruleshttp://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> This message contains confidential information and is >>>>>>>>>>> intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee >>>>>>>>>>> you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify >>>>>>>>>>> the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by >>>>>>>>>>> mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot >>>>>>>>>>> be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be >>>>>>>>>>> intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or >>>>>>>>>>> contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any >>>>>>>>>>> errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a >>>>>>>>>>> result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a >>>>>>>>>>> hard-copy version. >>>>>>>>>>> *Kenya Data Networks,* *Tel: +254(20)5000000,* * >>>>>>>>>>> www.kdn.co.ke* >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>>>> Odhiambo WASHINGTON, >>>>>>>>> Nairobi,KE >>>>>>>>> +254733744121/+254722743223 >>>>>>>>> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ >>>>>>>>> I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing listskunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribehttp://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Ruleshttp://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This message contains confidential information and is >>>>>>>>> intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee >>>>>>>>> you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify >>>>>>>>> the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by >>>>>>>>> mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot >>>>>>>>> be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be >>>>>>>>> intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or >>>>>>>>> contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any >>>>>>>>> errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a >>>>>>>>> result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a >>>>>>>>> hard-copy version. >>>>>>>>> *Kenya Data Networks,* *Tel: +254(20)5000000,* * >>>>>>>>> www.kdn.co.ke* >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>>> Odhiambo WASHINGTON, >>>>>>>> Nairobi,KE >>>>>>>> +254733744121/+254722743223 >>>>>>>> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ >>>>>>>> I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>> Odhiambo WASHINGTON, >>>>>> Nairobi,KE >>>>>> +254733744121/+254722743223 >>>>>> "I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler." >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>> ------------ >>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>> ------------ >>>>>> >>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>> ------------ >>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>> ------------ >>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>> ------------ >>>>> >>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>> ------------ >>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Best regards, >>>> Odhiambo WASHINGTON, >>>> Nairobi,KE >>>> +254733744121/+254722743223 >>>> "I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler." >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>> ------------ >>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>> ------------ >>>> >>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>> ------------ >>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>> >>> >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > skunkworks mailing list > skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > ------------ > List info, subscribe/unsubscribe > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
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Yes, I have a different opinion - Its because the developers preferred Python ./Ok3ch On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 1:08 PM, Peter Muchemi <pmuchemi@gmail.com> wrote:
Anyone else with a different opinion?
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 3:05 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>wrote:
Because the company that developed it preferred Python.
On 15 July 2013 15:01, Peter Muchemi <pmuchemi@gmail.com> wrote:
This query is directed to language masters? Why python?
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Antony Kimani <kimanianthoni@gmail.com
wrote:
system is ok provided by crimson logic but hosting the system in Kenya is the issue, the 5w and 1h on the hosting company.
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 10:10 AM, Simon Wainaina <swainaina@gmail.com>wrote:
by the way which country is providing the system? singapore? what system is it? i know it has been identified but not sure which one
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 9:10 AM, Antony Kimani < kimanianthoni@gmail.com> wrote:
as you all still cry over IEBC systems, I think it is a prime time now we scutinize a million dollar system (funded by taxpayer) to be implemented by KENTRADE to allow clearing and fowarding to be seamless.
antony...
On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 11:00 PM, Martin Akolo Chiteri < martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote:
> A person was also kind enough to write an article about it < > http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/07/estonia-publishes-its-e-voting-so... > > > > Martin. > > > On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 10:53 PM, Martin Akolo Chiteri < > martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> Sorry, I understand that people ``moved on'' away from this topic a >> long time ago. >> >> Some interesting developments I bumped into recently. The sources >> to Estonia's E-voting system are now open: < >> https://github.com/vvk-ehk/evalimine > >> >> A large chunk of it is written in Python, just from a quick glance >> ...... O.k, actually the whole of it. >> >> Martin. >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 4:28 PM, Martin Chiteri < >> martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 4:25 PM, Odhiambo Washington < >>> odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Haiya! You go to court. Small advise though - Okiya Okoiti >>>> Omtatah may be willing to accompany you. >>>> >>>> Actually I meant, "I refuse ...... to prove you wrong.". And as >>> you said, people have moved on. >>> >>> Martin. >>> >>>> >>>> On 16 April 2013 16:15, Martin Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com>wrote: >>>> >>>>> @Wash, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 3:36 PM, Odhiambo Washington < >>>>> odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> We have "moved on"! >>>>>> >>>>>> In one of todays dailies, UNDP offered to fund the audit of >>>>>> IEBC systems on condition that IEBC allows an outside body to participate >>>>>> in the audit process. Guess what? IEBC has refused and only want to audit >>>>>> itself internally. So why worry about what went wrong anyway? >>>>>> Perhaps we need to go to court to seek authority for external >>>>>> audit of IEBC, funded by UNDP of course. I can bet 100% that none of us >>>>>> really cares about that! >>>>>> Prove me wrong. >>>>>> >>>>>> I refuse! :-) >>>>> >>>>> Martin. >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 16 April 2013 15:01, Martin Chiteri < >>>>>> martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I was hoping someone would post or comment on this link here: >>>>>>> http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000081518&story_title=Kenya--IT-a... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Martin. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 2:04 PM, Odhiambo Washington < >>>>>>> odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Heheee.. It's not only Western Media. Some Kenyan bloggers >>>>>>>> keen on being very controversial and very nasty have it too.. >>>>>>>> Check out our own (Kenya's) Robert Alai doing his verbal >>>>>>>> diarrhea here -> http://lix.in/-c9fe46 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 7 March 2013 13:59, Dan Kwach <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> @ Wash... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Wewe...heshimu Western media...the guys know thea stuff...:-D >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dan O.Kwach. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 3/7/2013 1:48 PM, Odhiambo Washington wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> +1 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It's the first time I heard on a p2p VPN requiring a RDBMs >>>>>>>>> to run:-) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 7 March 2013 13:44, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com>wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> "The Safaricom Virtual Private Network that runs on >>>>>>>>>> Oracle ...." >>>>>>>>>> I stopped there...smh. >>>>>>>>>> If you're going to speculate, at least use an intelligent >>>>>>>>>> guess. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ./bernard >>>>>>>>>> On Mar 7, 2013 1:39 PM, "Dan Kwach" <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://intelligencebriefs.com/?p=3413 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Not sure how accurate the above is though...I think >>>>>>>>>>> speculation is too rife for anyone to know the exact >>>>>>>>>>> truth.. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Rgds, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Dan O.Kwach. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 3/7/2013 10:18 AM, Bogi Benga wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> word round is that the system was hacked >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/kenyan-election-2013/evans-ondieki-iebc-all... >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Anyone who can shed more light on this? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 8:45 AM, Martin Chiteri < >>>>>>>>>>> martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Nelson, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for your comments, they are all very sound. I >>>>>>>>>>>> just need to put something small into context: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Adam Nelson < >>>>>>>>>>>> adam@varud.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I just wanted to respond to many of the issues raised >>>>>>>>>>>>> today about the IEBC, the electronic tallying system, and about open >>>>>>>>>>>>> access. As one of the few non-Kenyans on the list (2 months in Nairobi, >>>>>>>>>>>>> previously NY where I did alot of Python work), maybe I have a unique >>>>>>>>>>>>> outsiders point of view. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, this is not my election, but I it is >>>>>>>>>>>>> important to the world that Kenya has strong institutions and the duty to >>>>>>>>>>>>> create and maintain those institutions lies with everybody. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hardware is likely not the problem here (disk space >>>>>>>>>>>>> comments aside - which are surely do to logical, not physical errors), the >>>>>>>>>>>>> problem is multifaceted: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On this list, there is a strong bias towards "Kenyan >>>>>>>>>>>>> solutions" or "Kenyanborn". Aside from finding this kind of offensive, >>>>>>>>>>>>> it's also just petty and backwards. The reason IEBC exists is not to >>>>>>>>>>>>> support the local ICT industry, it's to facilitate a trustworthy platform >>>>>>>>>>>>> on which Kenyan elections can take place. In addition, there are hundreds >>>>>>>>>>>>> of elections a year around the world and for Kenya to have a one-off system >>>>>>>>>>>>> that has never been used elsewhere and will never be used elsewhere is >>>>>>>>>>>>> neither efficient nor high quality. Maybe the local word processor and >>>>>>>>>>>>> spreadsheet apps should be "Kenyanborn" too? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The general bias towards Kenyan solutions here stems >>>>>>>>>>>> from the fact that most procurements of I.T solutions, for both hardware >>>>>>>>>>>> and software by public institutions in Kenya, is tilted in favour of >>>>>>>>>>>> foreign vending companies. An assumption made is that the imported systems >>>>>>>>>>>> are of higher quality since they were "done abroad" even though this is not >>>>>>>>>>>> always the case. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The issue is that some of the systems end up being done >>>>>>>>>>>> largely by locals. The multi-nationals simply hire Kenyan developers less >>>>>>>>>>>> expensively to do the job right after being awarded the contract but >>>>>>>>>>>> maintain the figures invoiced earlier. In the end they cost a lot of money, >>>>>>>>>>>> for instance the IEBC system that attracted an invoice upwards of 100 >>>>>>>>>>>> million U.S.D. This is not too good especially to our economy's balance of >>>>>>>>>>>> payments. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> What people are saying is that we can at least do >>>>>>>>>>>> half-a-decent job, that is all. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Martin. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> .... And now for something completely different: ``A >>>>>>>>>>>> radioactive cat has 18 half-lives.'' [ PyPy ] >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> At my last job in the States, almost half the team was >>>>>>>>>>>>> non-American and that was a strength, not a weakness. We don't know what >>>>>>>>>>>>> happened at the IEBC yet, and kudos to the people working to get that data >>>>>>>>>>>>> available, but the failures here cannot be blamed on 'outsiders'. Some of >>>>>>>>>>>>> the commentary is bordering on xenophobic. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> As for openness at the code level, that would >>>>>>>>>>>>> certainly be awesome. Check out this article ( >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/11/internet-based-and-open-source-how-e...) >>>>>>>>>>>>> and connect with the Brazilians and Australians rather than try to create a >>>>>>>>>>>>> techno-autarky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky). >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Adam >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/varud >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> +254 712 966 801 <%2B254%20712%20966%20801> >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/varud >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Bwana Lawi < >>>>>>>>>>>>> mail2lawi@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cool, we have made up. Hugs and shoulder pats. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can we get back to the issue at hand now? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> :) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Rad! < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then I wish you had said that to begin with sans the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knee jerk reaction. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I absolutely agree with you about the opening up of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the software, and not just that - the processes and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> procedures followed by all the people in the chain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Bernard Owuor wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Skunks, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If I knew that this windows-vs-linux thing was so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emotive, I'd have skipped it totally. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is really obscuring the point I'm trying to make - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which is - opening up softwares built in the public >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interest - not just to strengthen the systems, but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also to foster confidence among the varioius >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stake-holders. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @Steve, you're really in agreement with me. We're all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> speculating, so treat my "windows 8 server" bashing as just that. Just >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> between you and me, I know that mysql would complain thus in a Linux system >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if it ran out of disk space - because Linux stores locks on the disk. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't know the same happened in windows too. But hey, we're free to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> speculate in the absence of information. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @Rad, a bad workman 'quarrels' with his tool. Most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of those who 'blame' their tools seldom work, thus they don't qualify to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> called workmen of any type.... A good workman selects the right tool for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the job. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *From:* Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *To:* Skunkworks Mailing List < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:14 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> See? The last bastion of "professionals" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bad craftsmen blame their tools >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> system? SMDH!!! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind Regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alex Nyalita >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you've got all the time in the world; >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you've had with different production systems) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4. What is to be done to avoid future >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> occurrences?(give free advise, we know they're reading this - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wait, isn't someone getting paid to do all these??) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I've noticed I'm my short experience is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> decimation of lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hands-on, get-your-hands-dirty experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> potential design flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where. Whiteafrican has a high level call flow on the various >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interconnecting elements. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We can use that for starters. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ./bernard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's our professional duty and responsibility to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question this. In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inasmuch as we acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> under the carpet and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> irresponsible. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Most of you know how much clients ride you to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deliver, even clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> client paying 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who undercut us. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, back to issue at hand. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conceptualize a proper voting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> data is already at IEBC servers? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What would be the technological reason for the system >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to stop processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being done by google from IEBC servers. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So what exactly is failing? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Skunks, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pole for the delay in results. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> These are the kind of things that make people >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suspicious and not trust local ICT professionals. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The public has no idea if th system is foreign or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> local. All they know is that 9b of their money was spent >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the systems. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that they can be managed by a powerful desk top on any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> submission of results because all that is need is a good queue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> management algorith. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from polling stations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As have al >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing listskunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribehttp://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Ruleshttp://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> This message contains confidential information and is >>>>>>>>>>> intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee >>>>>>>>>>> you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify >>>>>>>>>>> the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by >>>>>>>>>>> mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot >>>>>>>>>>> be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be >>>>>>>>>>> intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or >>>>>>>>>>> contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any >>>>>>>>>>> errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a >>>>>>>>>>> result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a >>>>>>>>>>> hard-copy version. >>>>>>>>>>> *Kenya Data Networks,* *Tel: +254(20)5000000,* * >>>>>>>>>>> www.kdn.co.ke* >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>>>> Odhiambo WASHINGTON, >>>>>>>>> Nairobi,KE >>>>>>>>> +254733744121/+254722743223 >>>>>>>>> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ >>>>>>>>> I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing listskunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribehttp://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Ruleshttp://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This message contains confidential information and is >>>>>>>>> intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee >>>>>>>>> you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify >>>>>>>>> the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by >>>>>>>>> mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot >>>>>>>>> be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be >>>>>>>>> intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or >>>>>>>>> contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any >>>>>>>>> errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a >>>>>>>>> result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a >>>>>>>>> hard-copy version. >>>>>>>>> *Kenya Data Networks,* *Tel: +254(20)5000000,* * >>>>>>>>> www.kdn.co.ke* >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>>> Odhiambo WASHINGTON, >>>>>>>> Nairobi,KE >>>>>>>> +254733744121/+254722743223 >>>>>>>> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ >>>>>>>> I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>> Odhiambo WASHINGTON, >>>>>> Nairobi,KE >>>>>> +254733744121/+254722743223 >>>>>> "I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler." >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>> ------------ >>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>> ------------ >>>>>> >>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>> ------------ >>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>> ------------ >>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>> ------------ >>>>> >>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>> ------------ >>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Best regards, >>>> Odhiambo WASHINGTON, >>>> Nairobi,KE >>>> +254733744121/+254722743223 >>>> "I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler." >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>> ------------ >>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>> ------------ >>>> >>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>> ------------ >>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>> >>> >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > skunkworks mailing list > skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > ------------ > List info, subscribe/unsubscribe > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
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-- Peter Muchemi Software Developer Electra Software Ltd http://www.software.co.ke +254 722 320986
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Reason number 1 : Because python is open-source and the licensing is more straight forward and cost effective(so much so, it doesn't actually cost anything)! :) Reason number 2 : Because they have a cool Head of Information Systems who knows how to choose cool stuff like Python! :) Reason number 3 : You ask "Why Python?", but the real question is, "Why NOT Python"? On 15 July 2013 15:01, Peter Muchemi <pmuchemi@gmail.com> wrote:
This query is directed to language masters? Why python?
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Antony Kimani <kimanianthoni@gmail.com>wrote:
system is ok provided by crimson logic but hosting the system in Kenya is the issue, the 5w and 1h on the hosting company.
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 10:10 AM, Simon Wainaina <swainaina@gmail.com>wrote:
by the way which country is providing the system? singapore? what system is it? i know it has been identified but not sure which one
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 9:10 AM, Antony Kimani <kimanianthoni@gmail.com>wrote:
as you all still cry over IEBC systems, I think it is a prime time now we scutinize a million dollar system (funded by taxpayer) to be implemented by KENTRADE to allow clearing and fowarding to be seamless.
antony...
On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 11:00 PM, Martin Akolo Chiteri < martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote:
A person was also kind enough to write an article about it < http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/07/estonia-publishes-its-e-voting-so...
Martin.
On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 10:53 PM, Martin Akolo Chiteri < martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
Sorry, I understand that people ``moved on'' away from this topic a long time ago.
Some interesting developments I bumped into recently. The sources to Estonia's E-voting system are now open: < https://github.com/vvk-ehk/evalimine >
A large chunk of it is written in Python, just from a quick glance ...... O.k, actually the whole of it.
Martin.
On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 4:28 PM, Martin Chiteri < martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 4:25 PM, Odhiambo Washington < > odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Haiya! You go to court. Small advise though - Okiya Okoiti Omtatah >> may be willing to accompany you. >> >> Actually I meant, "I refuse ...... to prove you wrong.". And as you > said, people have moved on. > > Martin. > >> >> On 16 April 2013 16:15, Martin Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com>wrote: >> >>> @Wash, >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 3:36 PM, Odhiambo Washington < >>> odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> We have "moved on"! >>>> >>>> In one of todays dailies, UNDP offered to fund the audit of IEBC >>>> systems on condition that IEBC allows an outside body to participate in the >>>> audit process. Guess what? IEBC has refused and only want to audit itself >>>> internally. So why worry about what went wrong anyway? >>>> Perhaps we need to go to court to seek authority for external >>>> audit of IEBC, funded by UNDP of course. I can bet 100% that none of us >>>> really cares about that! >>>> Prove me wrong. >>>> >>>> I refuse! :-) >>> >>> Martin. >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 16 April 2013 15:01, Martin Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com>wrote: >>>> >>>>> I was hoping someone would post or comment on this link here: >>>>> http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000081518&story_title=Kenya--IT-a... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Martin. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 2:04 PM, Odhiambo Washington < >>>>> odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Heheee.. It's not only Western Media. Some Kenyan bloggers keen >>>>>> on being very controversial and very nasty have it too.. >>>>>> Check out our own (Kenya's) Robert Alai doing his verbal >>>>>> diarrhea here -> http://lix.in/-c9fe46 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 7 March 2013 13:59, Dan Kwach <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> @ Wash... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Wewe...heshimu Western media...the guys know thea stuff...:-D >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dan O.Kwach. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 3/7/2013 1:48 PM, Odhiambo Washington wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> +1 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It's the first time I heard on a p2p VPN requiring a RDBMs to >>>>>>> run:-) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 7 March 2013 13:44, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com>wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "The Safaricom Virtual Private Network that runs on >>>>>>>> Oracle ...." >>>>>>>> I stopped there...smh. >>>>>>>> If you're going to speculate, at least use an intelligent >>>>>>>> guess. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ./bernard >>>>>>>> On Mar 7, 2013 1:39 PM, "Dan Kwach" <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://intelligencebriefs.com/?p=3413 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Not sure how accurate the above is though...I think >>>>>>>>> speculation is too rife for anyone to know the exact truth.. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Rgds, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dan O.Kwach. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 3/7/2013 10:18 AM, Bogi Benga wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> word round is that the system was hacked >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/kenyan-election-2013/evans-ondieki-iebc-all... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Anyone who can shed more light on this? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 8:45 AM, Martin Chiteri < >>>>>>>>> martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Nelson, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thank you for your comments, they are all very sound. I >>>>>>>>>> just need to put something small into context: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Adam Nelson < >>>>>>>>>> adam@varud.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I just wanted to respond to many of the issues raised >>>>>>>>>>> today about the IEBC, the electronic tallying system, and about open >>>>>>>>>>> access. As one of the few non-Kenyans on the list (2 months in Nairobi, >>>>>>>>>>> previously NY where I did alot of Python work), maybe I have a unique >>>>>>>>>>> outsiders point of view. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Of course, this is not my election, but I it is >>>>>>>>>>> important to the world that Kenya has strong institutions and the duty to >>>>>>>>>>> create and maintain those institutions lies with everybody. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hardware is likely not the problem here (disk space >>>>>>>>>>> comments aside - which are surely do to logical, not physical errors), the >>>>>>>>>>> problem is multifaceted: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On this list, there is a strong bias towards "Kenyan >>>>>>>>>>> solutions" or "Kenyanborn". Aside from finding this kind of offensive, >>>>>>>>>>> it's also just petty and backwards. The reason IEBC exists is not to >>>>>>>>>>> support the local ICT industry, it's to facilitate a trustworthy platform >>>>>>>>>>> on which Kenyan elections can take place. In addition, there are hundreds >>>>>>>>>>> of elections a year around the world and for Kenya to have a one-off system >>>>>>>>>>> that has never been used elsewhere and will never be used elsewhere is >>>>>>>>>>> neither efficient nor high quality. Maybe the local word processor and >>>>>>>>>>> spreadsheet apps should be "Kenyanborn" too? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The general bias towards Kenyan solutions here stems from >>>>>>>>>> the fact that most procurements of I.T solutions, for both hardware and >>>>>>>>>> software by public institutions in Kenya, is tilted in favour of foreign >>>>>>>>>> vending companies. An assumption made is that the imported systems are of >>>>>>>>>> higher quality since they were "done abroad" even though this is not always >>>>>>>>>> the case. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The issue is that some of the systems end up being done >>>>>>>>>> largely by locals. The multi-nationals simply hire Kenyan developers less >>>>>>>>>> expensively to do the job right after being awarded the contract but >>>>>>>>>> maintain the figures invoiced earlier. In the end they cost a lot of money, >>>>>>>>>> for instance the IEBC system that attracted an invoice upwards of 100 >>>>>>>>>> million U.S.D. This is not too good especially to our economy's balance of >>>>>>>>>> payments. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> What people are saying is that we can at least do >>>>>>>>>> half-a-decent job, that is all. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Martin. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> .... And now for something completely different: ``A >>>>>>>>>> radioactive cat has 18 half-lives.'' [ PyPy ] >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> At my last job in the States, almost half the team was >>>>>>>>>>> non-American and that was a strength, not a weakness. We don't know what >>>>>>>>>>> happened at the IEBC yet, and kudos to the people working to get that data >>>>>>>>>>> available, but the failures here cannot be blamed on 'outsiders'. Some of >>>>>>>>>>> the commentary is bordering on xenophobic. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> As for openness at the code level, that would certainly >>>>>>>>>>> be awesome. Check out this article ( >>>>>>>>>>> http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/11/internet-based-and-open-source-how-e...) >>>>>>>>>>> and connect with the Brazilians and Australians rather than try to create a >>>>>>>>>>> techno-autarky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>>> Adam >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/varud >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> +254 712 966 801 <%2B254%20712%20966%20801> >>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/varud >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Bwana Lawi < >>>>>>>>>>> mail2lawi@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Cool, we have made up. Hugs and shoulder pats. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Can we get back to the issue at hand now? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> :) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Rad! < >>>>>>>>>>>> conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Then I wish you had said that to begin with sans the >>>>>>>>>>>>> knee jerk reaction. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I absolutely agree with you about the opening up of >>>>>>>>>>>>> the software, and not just that - the processes and >>>>>>>>>>>>> procedures followed by all the people in the chain >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Bernard Owuor wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Skunks, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> If I knew that this windows-vs-linux thing was so >>>>>>>>>>>>>> emotive, I'd have skipped it totally. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is really obscuring the point I'm trying to make - >>>>>>>>>>>>>> which is - opening up softwares built in the public >>>>>>>>>>>>>> interest - not just to strengthen the systems, but >>>>>>>>>>>>>> also to foster confidence among the varioius >>>>>>>>>>>>>> stake-holders. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> @Steve, you're really in agreement with me. We're all >>>>>>>>>>>>>> speculating, so treat my "windows 8 server" bashing as just that. Just >>>>>>>>>>>>>> between you and me, I know that mysql would complain thus in a Linux system >>>>>>>>>>>>>> if it ran out of disk space - because Linux stores locks on the disk. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't know the same happened in windows too. But hey, we're free to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> speculate in the absence of information. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> @Rad, a bad workman 'quarrels' with his tool. Most of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> those who 'blame' their tools seldom work, thus they don't qualify to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> called workmen of any type.... A good workman selects the right tool for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the job. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> *From:* Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> *To:* Skunkworks Mailing List < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:14 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> See? The last bastion of "professionals" >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bad craftsmen blame their tools >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical >>>>>>>>>>>>>> system? SMDH!!! >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind Regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alex Nyalita >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you've got all the time in the world; >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no >>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error >>>>>>>>>>>>>> message) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you've had with different production systems) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give >>>>>>>>>>>>>> free advise, we know they're reading this - wait, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> isn't someone getting paid to do all these??) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> get-your-hands-dirty experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> potential design flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> where. Whiteafrican has a high level call flow on the various >>>>>>>>>>>>>> interconnecting elements. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> We can use that for starters. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ./bernard >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's our professional duty and responsibility to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> question this. In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> inasmuch as we acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> under the carpet and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain >>>>>>>>>>>>>> irresponsible. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> even clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client >>>>>>>>>>>>>> paying 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who >>>>>>>>>>>>>> undercut us. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, back to issue at hand. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> @Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a proper voting >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> @Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With >>>>>>>>>>>>>> screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had >>>>>>>>>>>>>> already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> data is already at IEBC servers? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> What would be the technological reason for the system >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to stop processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> being done by google from IEBC servers. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> So what exactly is failing? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Skunks, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pole for the delay in results. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> These are the kind of things that make people >>>>>>>>>>>>>> suspicious and not trust local ICT professionals. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The public has no idea if th system is foreign or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> local. All they know is that 9b of their money was spent >>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the systems. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that they can be managed by a powerful desk top on any >>>>>>>>>>>>>> relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent >>>>>>>>>>>>>> submission of results because all that is need is a good queue >>>>>>>>>>>>>> management algorith. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic >>>>>>>>>>>>>> from polling stations >>>>>>>>>>>>>> As have al >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing listskunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribehttp://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Ruleshttp://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This message contains confidential information and is >>>>>>>>> intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee >>>>>>>>> you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify >>>>>>>>> the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by >>>>>>>>> mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot >>>>>>>>> be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be >>>>>>>>> intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or >>>>>>>>> contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any >>>>>>>>> errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a >>>>>>>>> result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a >>>>>>>>> hard-copy version. >>>>>>>>> *Kenya Data Networks,* *Tel: +254(20)5000000,* * >>>>>>>>> www.kdn.co.ke* >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>> Odhiambo WASHINGTON, >>>>>>> Nairobi,KE >>>>>>> +254733744121/+254722743223 >>>>>>> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ >>>>>>> I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> skunkworks mailing listskunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribehttp://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Skunkworks Ruleshttp://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This message contains confidential information and is intended >>>>>>> only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you >>>>>>> should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the >>>>>>> sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake >>>>>>> and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be >>>>>>> guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, >>>>>>> corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. >>>>>>> The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions >>>>>>> in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail >>>>>>> transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy >>>>>>> version. >>>>>>> *Kenya Data Networks,* *Tel: +254(20)5000000,* *www.kdn.co.ke* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>> Odhiambo WASHINGTON, >>>>>> Nairobi,KE >>>>>> +254733744121/+254722743223 >>>>>> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ >>>>>> I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>> ------------ >>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>> ------------ >>>>>> >>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>> ------------ >>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>> ------------ >>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>> ------------ >>>>> >>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>> ------------ >>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Best regards, >>>> Odhiambo WASHINGTON, >>>> Nairobi,KE >>>> +254733744121/+254722743223 >>>> "I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler." >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>> ------------ >>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>> ------------ >>>> >>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>> ------------ >>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> skunkworks mailing list >>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>> ------------ >>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>> ------------ >>> >>> Skunkworks Rules >>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>> ------------ >>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Odhiambo WASHINGTON, >> Nairobi,KE >> +254733744121/+254722743223 >> "I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler." >> >> _______________________________________________ >> skunkworks mailing list >> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >> ------------ >> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >> ------------ >> >> Skunkworks Rules >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >> ------------ >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >> > >
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-- Kind Regards, Moses M.G.
On 14 July 2013 22:53, Martin Akolo Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
Sorry, I understand that people ``moved on'' away from this topic a long time ago.
Some interesting developments I bumped into recently. The sources to Estonia's E-voting system are now open: < https://github.com/vvk-ehk/evalimine >
A large chunk of it is written in Python, just from a quick glance ...... O.k, actually the whole of it.
Martin.
It looks like they meant the code to be read only (by the public). But it's still a good first step. It shows you just how slowly change happens.
Hi Joseph, Yes, I think so too now. Actually if you take a closer look at the source code repository you will realize that the instructions provided are for the backend alone. That is also mentioned in the article on Arstechnica. The intention of keeping the clients away under lock and key is to make sure that fraud / rigging during polling activities does not take place since there is only one or a few controlled and authentic front-ends to the it (maybe Web, Mobile, IVR, USSD and so on). It could be an interesting project to develop clients to it for use around ..... Martin. On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 4:42 PM, Joseph Wayodi <jwayodi@gmail.com> wrote:
On 14 July 2013 22:53, Martin Akolo Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
Sorry, I understand that people ``moved on'' away from this topic a long time ago.
Some interesting developments I bumped into recently. The sources to Estonia's E-voting system are now open: < https://github.com/vvk-ehk/evalimine >
A large chunk of it is written in Python, just from a quick glance ...... O.k, actually the whole of it.
Martin.
It looks like they meant the code to be read only (by the public). But it's still a good first step. It shows you just how slowly change happens. _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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This is Kenyan 'media', not 'Western media' - http://intelligencebriefs.com/?page_id=321 On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 1:59 PM, Dan Kwach <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote:
@ Wash...
Wewe...heshimu Western media...the guys know thea stuff... :-D
Dan O.Kwach.
On 3/7/2013 1:48 PM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
+1
It's the first time I heard on a p2p VPN requiring a RDBMs to run:-)
On 7 March 2013 13:44, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote:
"The Safaricom Virtual Private Network that runs on Oracle ...." I stopped there...smh. If you're going to speculate, at least use an intelligent guess.
./bernard On Mar 7, 2013 1:39 PM, "Dan Kwach" <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote:
http://intelligencebriefs.com/?p=3413
Not sure how accurate the above is though...I think speculation is too rife for anyone to know the exact truth..
Rgds,
Dan O.Kwach.
On 3/7/2013 10:18 AM, Bogi Benga wrote:
word round is that the system was hacked
http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/kenyan-election-2013/evans-ondieki-iebc-all...
Anyone who can shed more light on this?
On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 8:45 AM, Martin Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com
wrote:
Hi Nelson,
Thank you for your comments, they are all very sound. I just need to put something small into context:
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Adam Nelson <adam@varud.com> wrote:
I just wanted to respond to many of the issues raised today about the IEBC, the electronic tallying system, and about open access. As one of the few non-Kenyans on the list (2 months in Nairobi, previously NY where I did alot of Python work), maybe I have a unique outsiders point of view.
Of course, this is not my election, but I it is important to the world that Kenya has strong institutions and the duty to create and maintain those institutions lies with everybody.
Hardware is likely not the problem here (disk space comments aside - which are surely do to logical, not physical errors), the problem is multifaceted:
On this list, there is a strong bias towards "Kenyan solutions" or "Kenyanborn". Aside from finding this kind of offensive, it's also just petty and backwards. The reason IEBC exists is not to support the local ICT industry, it's to facilitate a trustworthy platform on which Kenyan elections can take place. In addition, there are hundreds of elections a year around the world and for Kenya to have a one-off system that has never been used elsewhere and will never be used elsewhere is neither efficient nor high quality. Maybe the local word processor and spreadsheet apps should be "Kenyanborn" too?
The general bias towards Kenyan solutions here stems from the fact that most procurements of I.T solutions, for both hardware and software by public institutions in Kenya, is tilted in favour of foreign vending companies. An assumption made is that the imported systems are of higher quality since they were "done abroad" even though this is not always the case.
The issue is that some of the systems end up being done largely by locals. The multi-nationals simply hire Kenyan developers less expensively to do the job right after being awarded the contract but maintain the figures invoiced earlier. In the end they cost a lot of money, for instance the IEBC system that attracted an invoice upwards of 100 million U.S.D. This is not too good especially to our economy's balance of payments.
What people are saying is that we can at least do half-a-decent job, that is all.
Martin.
-- .... And now for something completely different: ``A radioactive cat has 18 half-lives.'' [ PyPy ]
At my last job in the States, almost half the team was non-American and that was a strength, not a weakness. We don't know what happened at the IEBC yet, and kudos to the people working to get that data available, but the failures here cannot be blamed on 'outsiders'. Some of the commentary is bordering on xenophobic.
As for openness at the code level, that would certainly be awesome. Check out this article ( http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/11/internet-based-and-open-source-how-e...) and connect with the Brazilians and Australians rather than try to create a techno-autarky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky).
Cheers, Adam
+254 712 966 801 <%2B254%20712%20966%20801> https://twitter.com/varud https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Bwana Lawi <mail2lawi@gmail.com>wrote:
Cool, we have made up. Hugs and shoulder pats.
Can we get back to the issue at hand now?
:)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com>wrote:
> Then I wish you had said that to begin with sans the knee jerk > reaction. > > I absolutely agree with you about the opening up of the software, > and not just that - the processes and procedures followed by all > the people in the chain > > > On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Bernard Owuor wrote: > >> Skunks, >> If I knew that this windows-vs-linux thing was so emotive, I'd have >> skipped it totally. >> >> It is really obscuring the point I'm trying to make - which is - opening >> up softwares built in the public interest - not just to strengthen >> the systems, but also to foster confidence among the varioius >> stake-holders. >> >> @Steve, you're really in agreement with me. We're all speculating, >> so treat my "windows 8 server" bashing as just that. Just between you and >> me, I know that mysql would complain thus in a Linux system if it ran out >> of disk space - because Linux stores locks on the disk. I didn't know the >> same happened in windows too. But hey, we're free to speculate in the >> absence of information. >> >> @Rad, a bad workman 'quarrels' with his tool. Most of those who >> 'blame' their tools seldom work, thus they don't qualify to be called >> workmen of any type.... A good workman selects the right tool for the job. >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> >> *To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> >> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:14 PM >> >> *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems >> >> See? The last bastion of "professionals" >> >> And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows. >> >> Bad craftsmen blame their tools >> >> On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote: >> >> Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical system? SMDH!!! >> >> ---- >> >> Kind Regards, >> >> Alex Nyalita >> >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki < >> patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when you've got all >> the time in the world; >> 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no idea) >> 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error message) >> 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of possible >> assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages you've had >> with different production systems) >> 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give free >> advise, we know they're reading this - wait, isn't someone getting >> paid to do all these??) >> >> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru < >> bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of lessons >> learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, >> get-your-hands-dirty experience. >> What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential design >> flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. Whiteafrican >> has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting elements. >> We can use that for starters. >> http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ >> ./bernard >> On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" < >> techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> It's our professional duty and responsibility to question this. >> In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and inasmuch as we >> acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it under the carpet >> and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain irresponsible. >> >> Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, even clients >> who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client paying 9b! I am >> always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who undercut us. >> >> Anyway, back to issue at hand. >> >> @Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a proper >> voting >> >> @Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With screenshots >> from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had already been >> developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the failure is not in >> transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the data is already >> at IEBC servers? >> What would be the technological reason for the system to stop >> processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is being >> done by google from IEBC servers. >> >> So what exactly is failing? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki < >> shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> Dear Skunks, >> Pole for the delay in results. >> These are the kind of things that make people suspicious and not >> trust local ICT professionals. >> The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. All they >> know is that 9b of their money was spent >> on the systems. >> The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that they can >> be managed by a powerful desk top on any >> relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent submission of >> results because all that is need is a good queue >> management algorith. >> A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from polling >> stations >> As have al >> >> > _______________________________________________ > skunkworks mailing list > skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > ------------ > List info, subscribe/unsubscribe > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
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Adam, Comment was/is on a light touch....seeing the names of those who post on the page....just plain games to hide their true selves... Rgds, Dan O.Kwach. On 3/7/2013 2:16 PM, Adam Nelson wrote:
This is Kenyan 'media', not 'Western media' - http://intelligencebriefs.com/?page_id=321
On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 1:59 PM, Dan Kwach <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke <mailto:dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke>> wrote:
@ Wash...
Wewe...heshimu Western media...the guys know thea stuff...:-D
Dan O.Kwach.
On 3/7/2013 1:48 PM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
+1
It's the first time I heard on a p2p VPN requiring a RDBMs to run:-)
On 7 March 2013 13:44, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com <mailto:bmwagiru@gmail.com>> wrote:
"The Safaricom Virtual Private Network that runs on Oracle ...." I stopped there...smh. If you're going to speculate, at least use an intelligent guess.
./bernard
On Mar 7, 2013 1:39 PM, "Dan Kwach" <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke <mailto:dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke>> wrote:
http://intelligencebriefs.com/?p=3413
Not sure how accurate the above is though...I think speculation is too rife for anyone to know the exact truth..
Rgds,
Dan O.Kwach.
On 3/7/2013 10:18 AM, Bogi Benga wrote:
word round is that the system was hacked
http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/kenyan-election-2013/evans-ondieki-iebc-all...
Anyone who can shed more light on this?
On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 8:45 AM, Martin Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com <mailto:martin.chiteri@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Nelson,
Thank you for your comments, they are all very sound. I just need to put something small into context:
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Adam Nelson <adam@varud.com <mailto:adam@varud.com>> wrote:
I just wanted to respond to many of the issues raised today about the IEBC, the electronic tallying system, and about open access. As one of the few non-Kenyans on the list (2 months in Nairobi, previously NY where I did alot of Python work), maybe I have a unique outsiders point of view.
Of course, this is not my election, but I it is important to the world that Kenya has strong institutions and the duty to create and maintain those institutions lies with everybody.
Hardware is likely not the problem here (disk space comments aside - which are surely do to logical, not physical errors), the problem is multifaceted:
On this list, there is a strong bias towards "Kenyan solutions" or "Kenyanborn". Aside from finding this kind of offensive, it's also just petty and backwards. The reason IEBC exists is not to support the local ICT industry, it's to facilitate a trustworthy platform on which Kenyan elections can take place. In addition, there are hundreds of elections a year around the world and for Kenya to have a one-off system that has never been used elsewhere and will never be used elsewhere is neither efficient nor high quality. Maybe the local word processor and spreadsheet apps should be "Kenyanborn" too?
The general bias towards Kenyan solutions here stems from the fact that most procurements of I.T solutions, for both hardware and software by public institutions in Kenya, is tilted in favour of foreign vending companies. An assumption made is that the imported systems are of higher quality since they were "done abroad" even though this is not always the case.
The issue is that some of the systems end up being done largely by locals. The multi-nationals simply hire Kenyan developers less expensively to do the job right after being awarded the contract but maintain the figures invoiced earlier. In the end they cost a lot of money, for instance the IEBC system that attracted an invoice upwards of 100 million U.S.D. This is not too good especially to our economy's balance of payments.
What people are saying is that we can at least do half-a-decent job, that is all.
Martin.
-- .... And now for something completely different: ``A radioactive cat has 18 half-lives.'' [ PyPy ]
At my last job in the States, almost half the team was non-American and that was a strength, not a weakness. We don't know what happened at the IEBC yet, and kudos to the people working to get that data available, but the failures here cannot be blamed on 'outsiders'. Some of the commentary is bordering on xenophobic.
As for openness at the code level, that would certainly be awesome. Check out this article (http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/11/internet-based-and-open-source-how-e...) and connect with the Brazilians and Australians rather than try to create a techno-autarky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky).
Cheers, Adam
+254 712 966 801 <tel:%2B254%20712%20966%20801> https://twitter.com/varud https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Bwana Lawi <mail2lawi@gmail.com <mailto:mail2lawi@gmail.com>> wrote:
Cool, we have made up. Hugs and shoulder pats.
Can we get back to the issue at hand now?
:)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com <mailto:conradakunga@gmail.com>> wrote:
Then I wish you had said that to begin with sans the knee jerk reaction.
I absolutely agree with you about the opening up of the software, and not just that - the processes and procedures followed by all the people in the chain
On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Bernard Owuor wrote:
Skunks, If I knew that this windows-vs-linux thing was so emotive, I'd have skipped it totally.
It is really obscuring the point I'm trying to make - which is - opening up softwares built in the public interest - not just to strengthen the systems, but also to foster confidence among the varioius stake-holders.
@Steve, you're really in agreement with me. We're all speculating, so treat my "windows 8 server" bashing as just that. Just between you and me, I know that mysql would complain thus in a Linux system if it ran out of disk space - because Linux stores locks on the disk. I didn't know the same happened in windows too. But hey, we're free to speculate in the absence of information.
@Rad, a bad workman 'quarrels' with his tool. Most of those who 'blame' their tools seldom work, thus they don't qualify to be called workmen of any type.... A good workman selects the right tool for the job.
------------------------------------------------------------------------ *From:* Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> *To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:14 PM
*Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems
See? The last bastion of "professionals"
And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows.
Bad craftsmen blame their tools
On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote:
Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical system? SMDH!!!
----
Kind Regards,
Alex Nyalita
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki <patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when you've got all the time in the world; 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no idea) 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error message) 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of possible assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages you've had with different production systems) 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give free advise, we know they're reading this -wait, isn't someone getting paid to do all these??)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote:
What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, get-your-hands-dirty experience. What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential design flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. Whiteafrican has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting elements. We can use that for starters. http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ ./bernard On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" <techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote:
It's our professional duty and responsibility to question this. In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and inasmuch as we acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it under the carpet and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain irresponsible. Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, even clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client paying 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who undercut us. Anyway, back to issue at hand. @Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a proper voting @Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the data is already at IEBC servers? What would be the technological reason for the system to stop processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is being done by google from IEBC servers. So what exactly is failing?
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki <shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Skunks, Pole for the delay in results. These are the kind of things that make people suspicious and not trust local ICT professionals. The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. All they know is that 9b of their money was spent on the systems. The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that they can be managed by a powerful desk top on any relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent submission of results because all that is need is a good queue management algorith. A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from polling stations As have al
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I guess a lot of these apply http://devopsreactions.tumblr.com/post/44611270530/checking-the-logs-on-a-se... http://devopsreactions.tumblr.com/post/44776341195/bug-reports-after-a-new-r... http://martinvalasek.com/blog/pictures-from-a-developers-life http://devopsreactions.tumblr.com/ On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 12:39 PM, Dan Kwach <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote:
http://intelligencebriefs.com/?p=3413
Not sure how accurate the above is though...I think speculation is too rife for anyone to know the exact truth..
Rgds,
Dan O.Kwach.
On 3/7/2013 10:18 AM, Bogi Benga wrote:
word round is that the system was hacked
http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/kenyan-election-2013/evans-ondieki-iebc-all...
Anyone who can shed more light on this?
On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 8:45 AM, Martin Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Nelson,
Thank you for your comments, they are all very sound. I just need to put something small into context:
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Adam Nelson <adam@varud.com> wrote:
I just wanted to respond to many of the issues raised today about the IEBC, the electronic tallying system, and about open access. As one of the few non-Kenyans on the list (2 months in Nairobi, previously NY where I did alot of Python work), maybe I have a unique outsiders point of view.
Of course, this is not my election, but I it is important to the world that Kenya has strong institutions and the duty to create and maintain those institutions lies with everybody.
Hardware is likely not the problem here (disk space comments aside - which are surely do to logical, not physical errors), the problem is multifaceted:
On this list, there is a strong bias towards "Kenyan solutions" or "Kenyanborn". Aside from finding this kind of offensive, it's also just petty and backwards. The reason IEBC exists is not to support the local ICT industry, it's to facilitate a trustworthy platform on which Kenyan elections can take place. In addition, there are hundreds of elections a year around the world and for Kenya to have a one-off system that has never been used elsewhere and will never be used elsewhere is neither efficient nor high quality. Maybe the local word processor and spreadsheet apps should be "Kenyanborn" too?
The general bias towards Kenyan solutions here stems from the fact that most procurements of I.T solutions, for both hardware and software by public institutions in Kenya, is tilted in favour of foreign vending companies. An assumption made is that the imported systems are of higher quality since they were "done abroad" even though this is not always the case.
The issue is that some of the systems end up being done largely by locals. The multi-nationals simply hire Kenyan developers less expensively to do the job right after being awarded the contract but maintain the figures invoiced earlier. In the end they cost a lot of money, for instance the IEBC system that attracted an invoice upwards of 100 million U.S.D. This is not too good especially to our economy's balance of payments.
What people are saying is that we can at least do half-a-decent job, that is all.
Martin.
-- .... And now for something completely different: ``A radioactive cat has 18 half-lives.'' [ PyPy ]
At my last job in the States, almost half the team was non-American and that was a strength, not a weakness. We don't know what happened at the IEBC yet, and kudos to the people working to get that data available, but the failures here cannot be blamed on 'outsiders'. Some of the commentary is bordering on xenophobic.
As for openness at the code level, that would certainly be awesome. Check out this article (http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/11/internet-based-and-open-source-how-e...) and connect with the Brazilians and Australians rather than try to create a techno-autarky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky).
Cheers, Adam
+254 712 966 801 https://twitter.com/varud https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Bwana Lawi <mail2lawi@gmail.com> wrote:
Cool, we have made up. Hugs and shoulder pats.
Can we get back to the issue at hand now?
:)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
Then I wish you had said that to begin with sans the knee jerk reaction.
I absolutely agree with you about the opening up of the software, and not just that - the processes and procedures followed by all the people in the chain
On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Bernard Owuor wrote:
Skunks, If I knew that this windows-vs-linux thing was so emotive, I'd have skipped it totally.
It is really obscuring the point I'm trying to make - which is - opening up softwares built in the public interest - not just to strengthen the systems, but also to foster confidence among the varioius stake-holders.
@Steve, you're really in agreement with me. We're all speculating, so treat my "windows 8 server" bashing as just that. Just between you and me, I know that mysql would complain thus in a Linux system if it ran out of disk space - because Linux stores locks on the disk. I didn't know the same happened in windows too. But hey, we're free to speculate in the absence of information.
@Rad, a bad workman 'quarrels' with his tool. Most of those who 'blame' their tools seldom work, thus they don't qualify to be called workmen of any type.... A good workman selects the right tool for the job.
________________________________ From: Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems
See? The last bastion of "professionals"
And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows.
Bad craftsmen blame their tools
On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote:
Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical system? SMDH!!!
----
Kind Regards,
Alex Nyalita
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki <patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when you've got all the time in the world; 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no idea) 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error message) 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of possible assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages you've had with different production systems) 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give free advise, we know they're reading this - wait, isn't someone getting paid to do all these??)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote:
What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, get-your-hands-dirty experience. What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential design flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. Whiteafrican has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting elements. We can use that for starters. http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ ./bernard On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" <techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote:
It's our professional duty and responsibility to question this. In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and inasmuch as we acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it under the carpet and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain irresponsible.
Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, even clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client paying 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who undercut us.
Anyway, back to issue at hand.
@Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a proper voting
@Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the data is already at IEBC servers? What would be the technological reason for the system to stop processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is being done by google from IEBC servers.
So what exactly is failing?
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki <shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Skunks, Pole for the delay in results. These are the kind of things that make people suspicious and not trust local ICT professionals. The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. All they know is that 9b of their money was spent on the systems. The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that they can be managed by a powerful desk top on any relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent submission of results because all that is need is a good queue management algorith. A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from polling stations As have al
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Kenya Data Networks, Tel: +254(20)5000000, www.kdn.co.ke
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I must say hongera to the winners, as well as their competitors who gave us a choice and elevated the level of public debate in the concluded elections. Even as we celebrate the IEBC, we must point out their tyranny of processing power as well as shillings. Below are the provisional specs of the failed IEBC server: 1. 20 quad-core CPUs (80 cores) 2. 132GB of RAM 3. 100TB of disk-space Provisional expenses by IEBC (of the KES 9B shillings, excluding KES 8B BVR) About 50,000 laptops acquired for the 33,000 polling stations. 33,000 Nokia 1680 * I don't think governments are offered quantity discounts * The above is provisional. Final info will be provided by IEBC. Cheers! ________________________________ From: Laban Mwangi <lmwangi@gmail.com> To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Sent: Friday, March 8, 2013 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems I guess a lot of these apply http://devopsreactions.tumblr.com/post/44611270530/checking-the-logs-on-a-se... http://devopsreactions.tumblr.com/post/44776341195/bug-reports-after-a-new-r... http://martinvalasek.com/blog/pictures-from-a-developers-life http://devopsreactions.tumblr.com/ On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 12:39 PM, Dan Kwach <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote:
http://intelligencebriefs.com/?p=3413
Not sure how accurate the above is though...I think speculation is too rife for anyone to know the exact truth..
Rgds,
Dan O.Kwach.
On 3/7/2013 10:18 AM, Bogi Benga wrote:
word round is that the system was hacked
http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/kenyan-election-2013/evans-ondieki-iebc-all...
Anyone who can shed more light on this?
On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 8:45 AM, Martin Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Nelson,
Thank you for your comments, they are all very sound. I just need to put something small into context:
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Adam Nelson <adam@varud.com> wrote:
I just wanted to respond to many of the issues raised today about the IEBC, the electronic tallying system, and about open access. As one of the few non-Kenyans on the list (2 months in Nairobi, previously NY where I did alot of Python work), maybe I have a unique outsiders point of view.
Of course, this is not my election, but I it is important to the world that Kenya has strong institutions and the duty to create and maintain those institutions lies with everybody.
Hardware is likely not the problem here (disk space comments aside - which are surely do to logical, not physical errors), the problem is multifaceted:
On this list, there is a strong bias towards "Kenyan solutions" or "Kenyanborn". Aside from finding this kind of offensive, it's also just petty and backwards. The reason IEBC exists is not to support the local ICT industry, it's to facilitate a trustworthy platform on which Kenyan elections can take place. In addition, there are hundreds of elections a year around the world and for Kenya to have a one-off system that has never been used elsewhere and will never be used elsewhere is neither efficient nor high quality. Maybe the local word processor and spreadsheet apps should be "Kenyanborn" too?
The general bias towards Kenyan solutions here stems from the fact that most procurements of I.T solutions, for both hardware and software by public institutions in Kenya, is tilted in favour of foreign vending companies. An assumption made is that the imported systems are of higher quality since they were "done abroad" even though this is not always the case.
The issue is that some of the systems end up being done largely by locals. The multi-nationals simply hire Kenyan developers less expensively to do the job right after being awarded the contract but maintain the figures invoiced earlier. In the end they cost a lot of money, for instance the IEBC system that attracted an invoice upwards of 100 million U.S.D. This is not too good especially to our economy's balance of payments.
What people are saying is that we can at least do half-a-decent job, that is all.
Martin.
-- .... And now for something completely different: ``A radioactive cat has 18 half-lives.'' [ PyPy ]
At my last job in the States, almost half the team was non-American and that was a strength, not a weakness. We don't know what happened at the IEBC yet, and kudos to the people working to get that data available, but the failures here cannot be blamed on 'outsiders'. Some of the commentary is bordering on xenophobic.
As for openness at the code level, that would certainly be awesome. Check out this article (http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/11/internet-based-and-open-source-how-e...) and connect with the Brazilians and Australians rather than try to create a techno-autarky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky).
Cheers, Adam
+254 712 966 801 https://twitter.com/varud https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Bwana Lawi <mail2lawi@gmail.com> wrote:
Cool, we have made up. Hugs and shoulder pats.
Can we get back to the issue at hand now?
:)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
Then I wish you had said that to begin with sans the knee jerk reaction.
I absolutely agree with you about the opening up of the software, and not just that - the processes and procedures followed by all the people in the chain
On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Bernard Owuor wrote:
Skunks, If I knew that this windows-vs-linux thing was so emotive, I'd have skipped it totally.
It is really obscuring the point I'm trying to make - which is - opening up softwares built in the public interest - not just to strengthen the systems, but also to foster confidence among the varioius stake-holders.
@Steve, you're really in agreement with me. We're all speculating, so treat my "windows 8 server" bashing as just that. Just between you and me, I know that mysql would complain thus in a Linux system if it ran out of disk space - because Linux stores locks on the disk. I didn't know the same happened in windows too. But hey, we're free to speculate in the absence of information.
@Rad, a bad workman 'quarrels' with his tool. Most of those who 'blame' their tools seldom work, thus they don't qualify to be called workmen of any type.... A good workman selects the right tool for the job.
________________________________ From: Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems
See? The last bastion of "professionals"
And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows.
Bad craftsmen blame their tools
On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote:
Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical system? SMDH!!!
----
Kind Regards,
Alex Nyalita
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki <patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when you've got all the time in the world; 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no idea) 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error message) 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of possible assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages you've had with different production systems) 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give free advise, we know they're reading this - wait, isn't someone getting paid to do all these??)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote:
What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, get-your-hands-dirty experience. What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential design flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. Whiteafrican has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting elements. We can use that for starters. http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ ./bernard On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" <techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote:
It's our professional duty and responsibility to question this. In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and inasmuch as we acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it under the carpet and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain irresponsible.
Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, even clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client paying 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who undercut us.
Anyway, back to issue at hand.
@Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a proper voting
@Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the data is already at IEBC servers? What would be the technological reason for the system to stop processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is being done by google from IEBC servers.
So what exactly is failing?
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki <shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Skunks, Pole for the delay in results. These are the kind of things that make people suspicious and not trust local ICT professionals. The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. All they know is that 9b of their money was spent on the systems. The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that they can be managed by a powerful desk top on any relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent submission of results because all that is need is a good queue management algorith. A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from polling stations As have al
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What about this? http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/post/44928868808/a-clear-definition-of-the-i... 339 servers? On 9 March 2013 13:02, Bernard Owuor <b_owuor@yahoo.com> wrote:
I must say hongera to the winners, as well as their competitors who gave us a choice and elevated the level of public debate in the concluded elections. Even as we celebrate the IEBC, we must point out their tyranny of processing power as well as shillings.
Below are the provisional specs of the failed IEBC server:
1. 20 quad-core CPUs (80 cores) 2. 132GB of RAM 3. 100TB of disk-space
Provisional expenses by IEBC (of the KES 9B shillings, excluding KES 8B BVR) About 50,000 laptops acquired for the 33,000 polling stations. 33,000 Nokia 1680
* I don't think governments are offered quantity discounts * The above is provisional. Final info will be provided by IEBC.
Cheers!
------------------------------ *From:* Laban Mwangi <lmwangi@gmail.com>
*To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Sent:* Friday, March 8, 2013 10:57 AM
*Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems
I guess a lot of these apply
http://devopsreactions.tumblr.com/post/44611270530/checking-the-logs-on-a-se...
http://devopsreactions.tumblr.com/post/44776341195/bug-reports-after-a-new-r...
http://martinvalasek.com/blog/pictures-from-a-developers-life http://devopsreactions.tumblr.com/
On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 12:39 PM, Dan Kwach <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote:
http://intelligencebriefs.com/?p=3413
Not sure how accurate the above is though...I think speculation is too rife for anyone to know the exact truth..
Rgds,
Dan O.Kwach.
On 3/7/2013 10:18 AM, Bogi Benga wrote:
word round is that the system was hacked
http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/kenyan-election-2013/evans-ondieki-iebc-all...
Anyone who can shed more light on this?
On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 8:45 AM, Martin Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com
wrote:
Hi Nelson,
Thank you for your comments, they are all very sound. I just need to put something small into context:
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Adam Nelson <adam@varud.com> wrote:
I just wanted to respond to many of the issues raised today about the IEBC, the electronic tallying system, and about open access. As one
of the
few non-Kenyans on the list (2 months in Nairobi, previously NY where I did alot of Python work), maybe I have a unique outsiders point of view.
Of course, this is not my election, but I it is important to the world that Kenya has strong institutions and the duty to create and maintain those institutions lies with everybody.
Hardware is likely not the problem here (disk space comments aside - which are surely do to logical, not physical errors), the problem is multifaceted:
On this list, there is a strong bias towards "Kenyan solutions" or "Kenyanborn". Aside from finding this kind of offensive, it's also just petty and backwards. The reason IEBC exists is not to support the local ICT industry, it's to facilitate a trustworthy platform on which Kenyan elections can take place. In addition, there are hundreds of elections a year around the world and for Kenya to have a one-off system that has never been used elsewhere and will never be used elsewhere is neither efficient nor high quality. Maybe the local word processor and spreadsheet apps should be "Kenyanborn" too?
The general bias towards Kenyan solutions here stems from the fact that most procurements of I.T solutions, for both hardware and software by public institutions in Kenya, is tilted in favour of foreign vending companies. An assumption made is that the imported systems are of higher quality since they were "done abroad" even though this is not always the case.
The issue is that some of the systems end up being done largely by locals. The multi-nationals simply hire Kenyan developers less expensively to do the job right after being awarded the contract but maintain the figures invoiced earlier. In the end they cost a lot of money, for instance the IEBC system that attracted an invoice upwards of 100 million U.S.D. This is not too good especially to our economy's balance of payments.
What people are saying is that we can at least do half-a-decent job, that is all.
Martin.
-- .... And now for something completely different: ``A radioactive cat has 18 half-lives.'' [ PyPy ]
At my last job in the States, almost half the team was non-American and that was a strength, not a weakness. We don't know what happened at
the
IEBC yet, and kudos to the people working to get that data available, but the failures here cannot be blamed on 'outsiders'. Some of the commentary is bordering on xenophobic.
As for openness at the code level, that would certainly be awesome. Check out this article ( http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/11/internet-based-and-open-source-how-e... ) and connect with the Brazilians and Australians rather than try to create a techno-autarky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky).
Cheers, Adam
+254 712 966 801 https://twitter.com/varud https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Bwana Lawi <mail2lawi@gmail.com> wrote:
Cool, we have made up. Hugs and shoulder pats.
Can we get back to the issue at hand now?
:)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
Then I wish you had said that to begin with sans the knee jerk reaction.
I absolutely agree with you about the opening up of the software, and not just that - the processes and procedures followed by all the
people in
the chain
On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Bernard Owuor wrote: > > Skunks, > If I knew that this windows-vs-linux thing was so emotive, I'd have > skipped it totally. > > It is really obscuring the point I'm trying to make - which is - > opening up softwares built in the public interest - not just to strengthen > the systems, but also to foster confidence among the varioius stake-holders. > > @Steve, you're really in agreement with me. We're all speculating, so > treat my "windows 8 server" bashing as just that. Just between you and me, I > know that mysql would complain thus in a Linux system if it ran out of disk > space - because Linux stores locks on the disk. I didn't know the same > happened in windows too. But hey, we're free to speculate in the absence of > information. > > @Rad, a bad workman 'quarrels' with his tool. Most of those who > 'blame' their tools seldom work, thus they don't qualify to be called > workmen of any type.... A good workman selects the right tool for the job. > > ________________________________ > From: Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> > To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> > Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:14 PM > Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems > > See? The last bastion of "professionals" > > And yet ATMs, MPesa etc run on Windows. > > Bad craftsmen blame their tools > > On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, Alex Nyalita wrote: > > Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical system? SMDH!!! > > ---- > > Kind Regards, > > Alex Nyalita > > > > On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki > <patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote: > > Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when you've got all > the time in the world; > 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no idea) > 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error message) > 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of possible > assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages you've had > with different production systems) > 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give free advise, > we know they're reading this - wait, isn't someone getting paid to do all > these??) > > On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru < bmwagiru@gmail.com> > wrote: > > What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of lessons > learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, get-your-hands-dirty > experience. > What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential design > flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. Whiteafrican has > a high level call flow on the various interconnecting elements. > We can use that for starters. > http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ > ./bernard > On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" <techlistkenya@gmail.com
> wrote: > > It's our professional duty and responsibility to question this. In as > much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and inasmuch as we acknowledge > that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it under the carpet and shrug it > off. Sorry to say, that's just plain irresponsible. > > Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, even clients > who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client paying 9b! I am > always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who undercut us. > > Anyway, back to issue at hand. > > @Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a proper voting > > @Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With screenshots > from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had already been > developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the failure is not in > transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the data is already at > IEBC servers? > What would be the technological reason for the system to stop > processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is being done > by google from IEBC servers. > > So what exactly is failing? > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki > <shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Dear Skunks, > Pole for the delay in results. > These are the kind of things that make people suspicious and not trust > local ICT professionals. > The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. All they know > is that 9b of their money was spent > on the systems. > The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that they can be > managed by a powerful desk top on any > relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent submission of > results because all that is need is a good queue > management algorith. > A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from polling > stations > As have al
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On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Adam Nelson <adam@varud.com> wrote:
...
On this list, there is a strong bias towards "Kenyan solutions" or "Kenyanborn". Aside from finding this kind of offensive, it's also just petty and backwards. The reason IEBC exists is not to support the local ICT industry, it's to facilitate a trustworthy platform on which Kenyan elections can take place. In addition, there are hundreds of elections a year around the world and for Kenya to have a one-off system that has never been used elsewhere and will never be used elsewhere is neither efficient nor high quality. Maybe the local word processor and spreadsheet apps should be "Kenyanborn" too?
@Adam, your comments have stuck in my mind for a while, caused me to do a bit of research here and there.
It appears that each of the states in US have some leeway in how they conduct elections, at least some of the elections, so my (trick) question to you is: *which of the vendors of e-voting systems in US are not "USA solutions" or "USAborn"?* My point being; there is absolutely nothing wrong with any country desiring to have locally made solutions to a problem. Infact, I could think of a number of security, economic and *national pride* reasons why this should and is encouraged all over the world. The fact that a working solution exists does not invalidate the desire to copy it, improve it, or even come up with a completely new solution.
Peter, If US states are using homegrown systems, and they probably are, that doesn't really have any impact on my thesis. One's nationality doesn't oblige the person to defend the methods of his government. All I would say is that economies of scale are critical in high quality systems. Some systems, like ICBM guidance systems, would probably be made better if the US and Russia cooperated on them. Nonetheless, sharing military data between potential adversaries is typically worse strategically than any gain at a system quality level. As for voting systems, if they are made and implemented in a trustworthy way, there benefits from scale that outweigh security or economic concerns. First, it seems self-evident that typical saboteurs would be domestic in any given election. Even if there were foreign actors, they would need domestic support who would presumably have better access to domestically built software anyway. Sunlight is the best cure for that problem - not domestic development. Second, voting is a very common occurrence in the world. Kenyan companies have an actual opportunity to develop a robust and exportable voting product. Kenya is sadly world famous for voting problems so if in the next 2 elections, it could demonstrate a platform that is robust and durable, it could be made into an actual product that other governments might buy (or if open source, contribute to). This would be a fantastic challenge for the local ICT industry and potentially a huge boon. However, institutionalizing the case that all voting systems should be homegrown would kill that company's export reputation though. Finally, if Kenyan ICT 'national pride' rests on developing its own voting platforms solely for Kenyan elections, that's a major problem. Everybody's got to think bigger - people like me want Nairobi to be a capital of tech in Africa and the world and the only way to make that happen is to give the entire industry an international focus. -Adam +254 712 966 801 https://twitter.com/varud https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Adam Nelson <adam@varud.com> wrote:
...
On this list, there is a strong bias towards "Kenyan solutions" or "Kenyanborn". Aside from finding this kind of offensive, it's also just petty and backwards. The reason IEBC exists is not to support the local ICT industry, it's to facilitate a trustworthy platform on which Kenyan elections can take place. In addition, there are hundreds of elections a year around the world and for Kenya to have a one-off system that has never been used elsewhere and will never be used elsewhere is neither efficient nor high quality. Maybe the local word processor and spreadsheet apps should be "Kenyanborn" too?
@Adam, your comments have stuck in my mind for a while, caused me to do a bit of research here and there.
It appears that each of the states in US have some leeway in how they conduct elections, at least some of the elections, so my (trick) question to you is: *which of the vendors of e-voting systems in US are not "USA solutions" or "USAborn"?*
My point being; there is absolutely nothing wrong with any country desiring to have locally made solutions to a problem. Infact, I could think of a number of security, economic and *national pride* reasons why this should and is encouraged all over the world.
The fact that a working solution exists does not invalidate the desire to copy it, improve it, or even come up with a completely new solution.
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And what's wrong with using Windows as a mission critical system? Because from where I stand you probably need a mentor to guide you ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Nyalita" <nyalita@gmail.com> To: "Skunkworks Mailing List" <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Sent: Miércoles, 6 de Marzo 2013 9:46:59 Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems Wait... a Windows platform for a mission critical system? SMDH!!! ---- Kind Regards, Alex Nyalita On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki < patrick.kariuki@gmail.com > wrote: <blockquote> Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when you've got all the time in the world; 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no idea) 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error message) 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of possible assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages you've had with different production systems) 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give free advise, we know they're reading this - wait, isn't someone getting paid to do all these?? ) On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru < bmwagiru@gmail.com > wrote: <blockquote> What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, get-your-hands-dirty experience. What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential design flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. Whiteafrican has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting elements. We can use that for starters. http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ ./bernard On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" < techlistkenya@gmail.com > wrote: <blockquote> It's our professional duty and responsibility to question this. In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and inasmuch as we acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it under the carpet and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain irresponsible. Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, even clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client paying 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who undercut us. Anyway, back to issue at hand. @Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a proper voting @Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the data is already at IEBC servers? What would be the technological reason for the system to stop processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is being done by google from IEBC servers. So what exactly is failing? On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki < shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com > wrote: <blockquote> Dear Skunks, Pole for the delay in results. These are the kind of things that make people suspicious and not trust local ICT professionals. The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. All they know is that 9b of their money was spent on the systems. The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that they can be managed by a powerful desk top on any relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent submission of results because all that is need is a good queue management algorith. A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from polling stations As have always said, the problem is instead of providing a solution, systems are provided instead. Regards shad From: Njoroge Tito < titonjoroge@gmail.com > To: Skunkworks Mailing List < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2013 9:41 AM Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems Put in perspectives: The data set: about 33,000 polling stations. 6 positions being contested for. Presidential race had 8 candidates. Just for presidential race, thats about 270,000 unique results to be populated in a database. 270,000 in 2 days and we have had significant failure. Even if you multiply that number by 6 for other positions, assuming an average of 8 contestants per seat, that number comes to less than 2m entries in a database. Equity bank has more than 5m customers. Safaricom has 15m subscribers on mpesa. Even when you think about it in terms of transactions, the number of transactions goes down significantly. This is a real shame for IEBC. On 6 March 2013 09:09, Erik Hersman < erik@zungu.com > wrote: <blockquote> http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/ Erik Hersman www.ushahidi.com | www.iHub..co.ke www.whiteafrican.com | @whiteafrican On Mar 6, 2013, at 8:59 AM, Patrick Kariuki < patrick.kariuki@gmail.com > wrote: <blockquote> Who said scaling MYSQL is necessary when the cheque and traffic comes once every 4 years? On 3/6/13, joe mwirigi < joemwirigi@gmail.com > wrote: <blockquote> Lets just say its a KES 9B lesson to the government that hires 'foreign companies' because they are 'big' I hear, the 'weed' tells me one had to login to the same server(database) to send the results. Am not sure they did run tests with 30,000 concurrent users so the db kept giving way, halafu mnajua zile logs za mysql on error. They filled the disk like crazy! -- just speculating -- I in no way know these guys! Then I can imagine the conversation Boss: vhat is happening Signh (shaking his head) Signh: donno databes only 10 MEg. Just chekin. Boss: Vy data not coming in u nno. Signh: dh -f <blockquote> $ unknown command $ df -h Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on /dev/sdb1 2000G 1999.2G 0.6G 99% / varrun 393M 144k 393M 1% /var/run varlock 393M 0 393M 0% /var/lock procbususb 393M 123k 393M 1% /proc/bus/usb udev 393M 123k 393M 1% /dev Signh: They send too much, too much data, see Boss: Yeah, too much sending 2Tb full already, patel, vhere is that 4 Tb disk! just plug it and ve ar in business! Signh: >$sudo /etc/init.d/mysql restart <blockquote> $password: ** $ wrong password try again:*** $ ERROR 2002 (HY000): Can't connect to local MySQL server </blockquote> through socket '/var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock' (2) <blockquote> $ </blockquote> On a lighter note though *_______________________________________________________________ We must Keep on, * On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 11:05 PM, Dickson < dhikims@gmail.com > wrote: <blockquote> Still the data amount is small even for processing. What amount of data does say bank systems process on a normal working day. Its bigger than what IEBC will process. I believe we have skills that can handle that system. Let's give IEBC benefit of patience they sort themselves out. Best Regards, Dickson. ---- http://qhim.wordpress.com Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Karanja < wabethi@gmail.com > Sender: skunkworks-bounces@lists.my.co.ke Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2013 22:48:50 To: Skunkworks Mailing List< skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > Reply-To: Skunkworks Mailing List < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my..co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke </blockquote> </blockquote> _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke </blockquote> _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke </blockquote> _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co..ke </blockquote> _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co..ke </blockquote> _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co..ke </blockquote> _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co..ke </blockquote> _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke </blockquote>
A Safaricom Statement: http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/post/44698219267/safaricom-statement Erik Hersman www.ushahidi.com | www.iHub.co.ke www.whiteafrican.com | @whiteafrican On Mar 6, 2013, at 12:23 PM, Patrick Kariuki <patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Where the experiential learning cycle comes in, when you've got all the time in the world; 1. What happened to the system? (we have little or no idea) 2. What was experienced by the end user? (some error message) 3. Why did this happen? (come up with all kinds of possible assumptions on what happened - based on similar error messages you've had with different production systems) 4. What is to be done to avoid future occurrences?(give free advise, we know they're reading this - wait, isn't someone getting paid to do all these??)
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote: What I've noticed I'm my short experience is decimation of lessons learnt. Between us we have years of technical hands-on, get-your-hands-dirty experience. What we should discuss in this thread, IMHO, is potential design flaws. Without quoting any press on who said what or where. Whiteafrican has a high level call flow on the various interconnecting elements. We can use that for starters.
http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/
./bernard
On Mar 6, 2013 10:18 AM, "Tech List Kenya" <techlistkenya@gmail.com> wrote: It's our professional duty and responsibility to question this. In as much as IEBC needs time to sort themselves, and inasmuch as we acknowledge that things go wrong, we cannot just sweep it under the carpet and shrug it off. Sorry to say, that's just plain irresponsible.
Most of you know how much clients ride you to deliver, even clients who don't pay. Especially these ones. Now imagine a client paying 9b! I am always amused at how much slack we want to cut guys who undercut us.
Anyway, back to issue at hand.
@Mwagiru, can you lead a virtual team to conceptualize a proper voting
@Hans, the doc you posted shows the RFP as of Dec. With screenshots from both mobile and desktop apps. This means the system had already been developed. So what is the point of failure? If we say the failure is not in transmission but rather in processing, does that mean the data is already at IEBC servers? What would be the technological reason for the system to stop processing (this is a very ambiguous term). Data visualization is being done by google from IEBC servers.
So what exactly is failing?
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki <shadrack_mwaniki@yahoo.com> wrote: Dear Skunks, Pole for the delay in results. These are the kind of things that make people suspicious and not trust local ICT professionals. The public has no idea if th system is foreign or local. All they know is that 9b of their money was spent on the systems. The transactions being managed by IEBC are so small that they can be managed by a powerful desk top on any relational database. doin't even talk of concurrent submission of results because all that is need is a good queue management algorith. A separate desktop would handle the incoming traffic from polling stations As have always said, the problem is instead of providing a solution, systems are provided instead.
Regards shad
From: Njoroge Tito <titonjoroge@gmail.com>
To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2013 9:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems
Put in perspectives:
The data set: about 33,000 polling stations. 6 positions being contested for. Presidential race had 8 candidates.
Just for presidential race, thats about 270,000 unique results to be populated in a database. 270,000 in 2 days and we have had significant failure.
Even if you multiply that number by 6 for other positions, assuming an average of 8 contestants per seat, that number comes to less than 2m entries in a database.
Equity bank has more than 5m customers. Safaricom has 15m subscribers on mpesa.
Even when you think about it in terms of transactions, the number of transactions goes down significantly.
This is a real shame for IEBC.
On 6 March 2013 09:09, Erik Hersman <erik@zungu.com> wrote: http://iebctechkenya.tumblr.com/
Erik Hersman
www.ushahidi.com | www.iHub.co.ke www.whiteafrican.com | @whiteafrican
On Mar 6, 2013, at 8:59 AM, Patrick Kariuki <patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Who said scaling MYSQL is necessary when the cheque and traffic comes once every 4 years?
On 3/6/13, joe mwirigi <joemwirigi@gmail.com> wrote:
Lets just say its a KES 9B lesson to the government that hires 'foreign companies' because they are 'big'
I hear, the 'weed' tells me one had to login to the same server(database) to send the results. Am not sure they did run tests with 30,000 concurrent users so the db kept giving way, halafu mnajua zile logs za mysql on error. They filled the disk like crazy! -- just speculating -- I in no way know these guys! Then I can imagine the conversation
Boss: vhat is happening Signh (shaking his head) Signh: donno databes only 10 MEg. Just chekin. Boss: Vy data not coming in u nno. Signh: dh -f
$ unknown command $ df -h Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/sdb1 2000G 1999.2G 0.6G 99% / varrun 393M 144k 393M 1% /var/run varlock 393M 0 393M 0% /var/lock procbususb 393M 123k 393M 1% /proc/bus/usb udev 393M 123k 393M 1% /dev
Signh: They send too much, too much data, see Boss: Yeah, too much sending 2Tb full already, patel, vhere is that 4 Tb disk! just plug it and ve ar in business! Signh: >$sudo /etc/init.d/mysql restart
$password: ** $ wrong password try again:*** $ ERROR 2002 (HY000): Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock' (2) $
On a lighter note though *_______________________________________________________________ We must Keep on, *
On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 11:05 PM, Dickson <dhikims@gmail.com> wrote:
Still the data amount is small even for processing. What amount of data does say bank systems process on a normal working day. Its bigger than what IEBC will process.
I believe we have skills that can handle that system. Let's give IEBC benefit of patience they sort themselves out. Best Regards,
Dickson.
---- http://qhim.wordpress.com
Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Patrick Karanja <wabethi@gmail.com> Sender: skunkworks-bounces@lists.my.co.ke Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2013 22:48:50 To: Skunkworks Mailing List<skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Reply-To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] IEBC Systems
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participants (39)
-
Adam Nelson -
Alex Nyalita -
Antony Kimani -
Barrack Otieno -
Bernard Mwagiru -
Bernard Owuor -
Bogi Benga -
Bwana Lawi -
Dan Kwach -
dan wanjohi -
daniel gitau -
Davis Munene -
Dickson -
Erik Hersman -
Francis Njenga -
Isaac Kiplagat -
J.M -
Jangita Nyagudi -
John Doe -
Joseph Wayodi -
Laban Mwangi -
Martin Akolo Chiteri -
Martin Chiteri
-
matthew wainaina -
Mike M. -
Moses M.G -
MotoBaridi -
Odhiambo Washington -
Okechukwu -
Patrick Karanja -
Patrick Kariuki -
Peter Karunyu -
Peter Muchemi -
Rad! -
rsohan＠gmail.com -
Simon Wainaina -
Stephen -
Steve Obbayi -
Thomas Odol