Skunks just more than a mailing list and internet contacts? The debate/discussion is here
@Philip and others are suggesting structure and formation of skunks into something more. To prevent the thread from being buried under other contributions, have created a new thread. ( Wes can find it easily ) These are the discussions : - List structure and discuss/debate - Put it to the vote Info so far : Philip : On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Philip Musyoki <pmusyoki@gmail.com> wrote:
Let's create another worksheet for the Vote. Each member one vote.
And the winning idea needs to get 50% +1 vote of the people who vote.
Ashok : On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 1:23 PM, <ashok+skunkworks@parliaments.info<ashok%2Bskunkworks@parliaments.info>
wrote:
You'll also need a finance committee/structure to manage financial contributions
On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 1:10 PM, <ashok+skunkworks@parliaments.info<ashok%2Bskunkworks@parliaments.info>> wrote:
-- Once you acquire resources (e.g. server) you will need some kind of structure to manage that resource (its going to be physically located somewhere under lock and key - who has access to it etc... ). i.e. you need some kind of admin structure that has physical access to the server.
-- There are various services running on that server some critical (e.g. mailing list) some not so critical (e.g. user projects / shares / download folders etc..). There needs to be some kind of adminstrative structure to do these day-to-day activities (backup, list moderation, server admin ...)
the above is probably a bare minimum to start of with ... perhaps also a steering committee for events and the like
My suggestion for the structure for now is as follows: Skunworks should be incorporated as a not-for-profit organization whose main objective is the promotion of technology and whatever other objective members feel the organization should promote. The group will comprise members who will contribute some amount of money; may be yearly as membership fees. With these we can confortable run the activities of the organization in terms of server space, bandwidth, and so on. We will have a small board whose purpose is to give long term and strategic direction of the organization. The board will be appointed for an agreed upon term by the members and given clear mandate of what it is expect to do. There will also be a secretatiat that will be charged with the day to day running of the activities of the organizaiton. These include; but are not limited to organizing events; managing and administering the servers; updating the profile of the organization on the web and various social media; organizing awards and ceremonies, communicating with other stakeholders and like minded groups and the promotion of the interests of the organization. We will have a constituion and no one will really own the organization. Those are my thoughs for now; others should say what they think.
let us migrate to linkedin On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 3:09 PM, Philip Musyoki <pmusyoki@gmail.com> wrote:
My suggestion for the structure for now is as follows:
Skunworks should be incorporated as a not-for-profit organization whose main objective is the promotion of technology and whatever other objective members feel the organization should promote.
The group will comprise members who will contribute some amount of money; may be yearly as membership fees. With these we can confortable run the activities of the organization in terms of server space, bandwidth, and so on.
We will have a small board whose purpose is to give long term and strategic direction of the organization. The board will be appointed for an agreed upon term by the members and given clear mandate of what it is expect to do.
There will also be a secretatiat that will be charged with the day to day running of the activities of the organizaiton. These include; but are not limited to organizing events; managing and administering the servers; updating the profile of the organization on the web and various social media; organizing awards and ceremonies, communicating with other stakeholders and like minded groups and the promotion of the interests of the organization.
We will have a constituion and no one will really own the organization.
Those are my thoughs for now; others should say what they think.
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@Philip Am with you on all your proposals except this: Skunkworks has been open to *all* and IMO membership fees will bring complications bure. Let people feel they are Skunks coz they want to not coz they have paid to be. On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 3:09 PM, Philip Musyoki <pmusyoki@gmail.com> wrote:
My suggestion for the structure for now is as follows:
The group will comprise members who will contribute some amount of money; may be yearly as membership fees. With these we can confortable run the activities of the organization in terms of server space, bandwidth, and so on.
Secondly, trust me the issue of remittances will bring unwanted headaches. Now to my points: Someone suggested that Techies feel uncomfortable working in set structures. Thats a valid point but now that Skunks is almost 5 years old (I stand to be corrected) its time we gave ourselves a formal stature in the society. The positions I propose are the following: Position: Facilitator Roles: Facilitate Skunkworks meetings and venues Position: Spokesperson Roles: Act as skunkworks 'mouthpiece' to media, and society in General Position: Skunkworks Publicist (Can be more than one) Roles: Look for and identify issues on which the Skunkworks group can contribute, at least in ideas, in the outside world. By outside I mean outside the mailing list. If need be the publicist can create issues. Case in point: How many times have we seen Mutahi Ngunyi on TV commenting on Legal matters? We should be seeing Skunkworks guys giving their professional opinions as well. And I would feel very proud to hear on, say KTN, "And here we have Philip Musyoki, an IT Manager with Bla Bla and a member of the renowned Skunkworks ..." Position: Techno Leads Roles: Act as leads for as respective line of IT - e.g. MySQL Lead, for all MySQL enthusiasts, .Net Lead, Java, etc. This will help in grooming and knowledge transfer Position: Inventory Manager Roles: Keeps stock of Skunks resources Position: Innovators Role: Think and act!! Proposed Office Holder: EVERYONE!! Position: Sponsors (Am thinking Corporates) Roles: To organise for and sponsor Skunk events. In return their products will be showcased. And many more. Guys, we dont have to go the traditional way of chairmen and secretaries as such. Lets have what can work for us
Tech List this is great. We are thinking more on the same direction. Let's wait for comments from more people and may be we can develop some sort of a working document or a proposal or something similar to that 2030 document. The more ideas we have the better and we would also love to have more people contributing. I am seeing ideas from the same people and this is worrying me. We need to open the democratic space for everyone to have a say. Skunworks belongs to you and now it is your turn to take ownership.
My take on this: The various contributors, whether active or passive, have their strengths, which would be capitalized on to provide our ideas into action. The most important thing is to publicize the formed entity whether a limited co. by shares or guarantee for the wider public to know what skw is. When members feel they own the organization, they will feel duty bound to promote the set goals, missions and objectives agreed on. Can we have a virtual brainstorming session where we can give our ideas to one or two appointed persons, highlighting on these important issues? The reason for this suggestion is to prevent this thread from getting lost along the way. On 11/12/2009, Philip Musyoki <pmusyoki@gmail.com> wrote:
Tech List this is great. We are thinking more on the same direction. Let's wait for comments from more people and may be we can develop some sort of a working document or a proposal or something similar to that 2030 document.
The more ideas we have the better and we would also love to have more people contributing. I am seeing ideas from the same people and this is worrying me. We need to open the democratic space for everyone to have a say. Skunworks belongs to you and now it is your turn to take ownership.
-- Solomon Mbũrũ Kamau P.O. Box 19343 - 00202 Nairobi Cell: (+254-0) 735 431041 Man is a gregarious animal and enjoys agreement as cows will graze all the same way to the side of a hill! AND It is better to die in dignity than in the ignomity of ambiguous generosity! http://dawn-in-kenya.blogspot.com http://smiley2.wordpress.com http://mburu.sikika.co.ke
ok, let me throw a spanner into the works! My opinion...:-) I have on very many ocassions shared ideas/ways etc to what the community can do or the number of projects I've openly listed on this list. I remember the thread early last year by Arthur and creating a financial scheme, while Crystal had suggested youth fund initiatives, or others who wanted to create what @Philip and others are discussing on this thread. I think there are many who have started initiatives only to realize that the thread goes to the archives. Plenty of my thread contributions too are just a statistic in the archive. There is also the problem that founders of this list cannot take part in all ideas or other things so it would be too much to expect this. Until they work towards those goals, things will be difficult to move. For the majority, Skunks is a great place to discuss tech stuff and has different views. Sometimes some of us get carried away and want to do something but reality is very different. And no one is to blame for this. Skunks did not start off as a club or ngo so it would be very difficult to create it as one. And I think for a long time it will remain what it is. And just so that you do not feel that you are alone on this, 2 of my threads ( ati 2010 devs year, kitu gani? ) are soon heading into the archives. Hehehe... A happy Jamuhuri day tomorrow :-) Rgds.
Adding some historical perspective to the thread ... We had this discussion sometime back - at the 2nd anniversary or so of skunkworks I believe. What we concluded then was that skunkworks was a community - and a community isn't really an organization. A community is a baraza, explosion of ideas - and it's what will catalyze other things to happen. So back then we decided to leave it as such. I still feel strongly that skunkworks is a community. It's like BarCamp and other communities out there. They're run by volunteers who come up every now and then. They might have a committee sometimes, but it's all a volunteer effort. I think in Kenya, we are drilled into believing in structures of committees & power. Maybe there's a structure out there for skunkworks too - I don't know. But thankfully so far we have had volunteers come up and do amazing jobs of organizing things. And I hope that goes on always. At that meeting so many months/years ago - it was also brought up that people who get bright ideas from this whole interaction with the community are free to build & develop their own ideas, and pool in resources from the community. Look at something like Ushahidi - it started as a small idea, then they tapped into the community, and now they have several of the leading Kenyan devs working on it. And it's BIG. HUGE. It's not just software dev or techie things - I know Alex Gakuru has built on all the innovation he sees, and has tried to bring it to light in the mainstream communities in Kenya. Another thing - starting a thread here & brainstorming ideas will not make them come to life. It takes a lot of personal initiative to really see an idea through - and largely, you have to do it yourself, with people that similarly believe in it, and will also see it through as a team. That is the secret ingredient behind organizing BarCamps - we realized someone has to physically see the idea through. It's not enough to brainstorm on a list & try make plans that way. Someone who has enough time, will take charge, put in some effort, and it will happen. Same for any ideas that have been discussed on this list in the past. I know many successful people who have used such ideas, acted on them, and profited. And I know many more who have been busy with work, life, and everything else, and continue dreaming up amazing ideas. Which one are you ;) ----- Original Message ----- From: "aki" <aki275@googlemail.com> To: "Skunkworks Forum" <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 9:58:52 PM GMT +03:00 Iraq Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] Skunks just more than a mailing list and internet contacts? The debate/discussion is here ok, let me throw a spanner into the works! My opinion...:-) I have on very many ocassions shared ideas/ways etc to what the community can do or the number of projects I've openly listed on this list. I remember the thread early last year by Arthur and creating a financial scheme, while Crystal had suggested youth fund initiatives, or others who wanted to create what @Philip and others are discussing on this thread. I think there are many who have started initiatives only to realize that the thread goes to the archives. Plenty of my thread contributions too are just a statistic in the archive. There is also the problem that founders of this list cannot take part in all ideas or other things so it would be too much to expect this. Until they work towards those goals, things will be difficult to move. For the majority, Skunks is a great place to discuss tech stuff and has different views. Sometimes some of us get carried away and want to do something but reality is very different. And no one is to blame for this. Skunks did not start off as a club or ngo so it would be very difficult to create it as one. And I think for a long time it will remain what it is. And just so that you do not feel that you are alone on this, 2 of my threads ( ati 2010 devs year, kitu gani? ) are soon heading into the archives. Hehehe... A happy Jamuhuri day tomorrow :-) Rgds. _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general
Hi @Riyaz, actually there is a lot I could discuss with your points but glad to know that many on this list think that the threads posted by some of us were mere gestures. Unfortunately I belong to the school thought on collective responsibilty and thus I can now see why the threads had no responses. Going by your description of the what it takes to get BarCamp going, whooaa...Oh dear. Yes work hard at an idea, develop it well, put in all the late hours and make sure it goes well, commitment no problems there. But to expect me to bring the idea on a silver plate......sorry. My collective responsibility thinking would just not allow it. Ushaidi is the typical example of personality success and that is why Alex and others who have established identities are able to pull what they can. This is one of the biggest problems facing millions of ideas out there. They are not taking off as people will mostly associate themselves with identities. The success of all events in skunks is also driven by this thinking, I believe am going to stick with what I said earlier and do stress that this is not a problem. It would also be a nightmare if all ideas had to be backed by the founders, too much to handle. I think the idea of Skunks as a community is a good one and has worked out well, given many a platform to share views and exchange ideas without any strings attached. :-)
Aki, Sorry don't take me wrong at all - I wasn't hinting anything of the sort. I myself have put ideas out there which haven't taken root. I was just saying that it will need someone to take up that idea and do something with it - and one of the reasons of this community is to find those someones who can take up such. It's difficult in my own experience - but it's happened before a few times. Sorry for any misunderstanding ... ----- Original Message ----- From: "aki" <aki275@googlemail.com> To: "Skunkworks Forum" <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 12:16:23 AM GMT +03:00 Iraq Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] Skunks just more than a mailing list and internet contacts? The debate/discussion is here Hi @Riyaz, actually there is a lot I could discuss with your points but glad to know that many on this list think that the threads posted by some of us were mere gestures. Unfortunately I belong to the school thought on collective responsibilty and thus I can now see why the threads had no responses. Going by your description of the what it takes to get BarCamp going, whooaa...Oh dear. Yes work hard at an idea, develop it well, put in all the late hours and make sure it goes well, commitment no problems there. But to expect me to bring the idea on a silver plate......sorry. My collective responsibility thinking would just not allow it. Ushaidi is the typical example of personality success and that is why Alex and others who have established identities are able to pull what they can. This is one of the biggest problems facing millions of ideas out there. They are not taking off as people will mostly associate themselves with identities. The success of all events in skunks is also driven by this thinking, I believe am going to stick with what I said earlier and do stress that this is not a problem. It would also be a nightmare if all ideas had to be backed by the founders, too much to handle. I think the idea of Skunks as a community is a good one and has worked out well, given many a platform to share views and exchange ideas without any strings attached. :-) _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general
On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 8:15 AM, Riyaz Bachani < riyaz.bachani@ke.wananchi.com> wrote:
Aki,
Sorry don't take me wrong at all - I wasn't hinting anything of the sort.
I myself have put ideas out there which haven't taken root. I was just saying that it will need someone to take up that idea and do something with it - and one of the reasons of this community is to find those someones who can take up such. It's difficult in my own experience - but it's happened before a few times.
Sorry for any misunderstanding ...
Hey Riyaz, there is no apology due and pls do not feel that such is necessary. I've not mis-understood you. :-) Your input was quite valuable, explained many things of the behind the scenes inputs needed to get ideas off the ground and provided a logical explanation to the trends.
On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 12:16 AM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
Yes work hard at an idea, develop it well, put in all the late hours and make sure it goes well, commitment no problems there. But to expect me to bring the idea on a silver plate......sorry. My collective responsibility thinking would just not allow it.
Then help us identify the individual "collectively responsible" for "bring the idea on a silver plate.."?
Ushaidi is the typical example of personality success and that is why Alex and others who have established identities are able to pull what they can. This is one of the biggest problems facing millions of ideas out there.
Therefore meaning one of the biggest problem facing such millions of floating ideas are individuals personally, fully and transparently volunteering and risking their reputations by believing, driving, and boldly associating their personality with untested brave new ideas? Ideas - great as they may be are, unfortunately, just ideas until someone translates them into action.
are not taking off as people will mostly associate themselves with identities. The success of all events in skunks is also driven by this thinking, I believe am going to stick with what I said earlier and do stress that this is not a problem. It would also be a nightmare if all ideas had to be backed by the founders, too much to handle.
One need not parade gazillion ideas and expect them to grow on their own-Internet websites do a fine job at that (i.e. just "Google" whatever and the tons of better ideas already out there).
I think the idea of Skunks as a community is a good one and has worked out well, given many a platform to share views and exchange ideas without any strings attached. :-)
Frankly not funny since nobody's input has ever been coerced. It actually offends when one reads directive-like from "above", fulani I have allocated you to x, nani do y, you fit there etc.. Folks should take ownership of their initiatives and that includes leadership of whatever it is that they start- i.e. not start by designating practical responsibilities while they remain safely shielded behind a technology veil.
On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 8:40 AM, Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com>wrote:
On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 12:16 AM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
Frankly not funny since nobody's input has ever been coerced. It actually offends when one reads directive-like from "above", fulani I have allocated you to x, nani do y, you fit there etc.. Folks should take ownership of their initiatives and that includes leadership of whatever it is that they start- i.e. not start by designating practical responsibilities while they remain safely shielded behind a technology veil.
@Alex, Collective responsibilty is also about people thinking for themselves, what needs to be done and what can be done. So definately we are opposites when it comes to doing things. I respect your view on " ownership" but you should also respect mine on " collective ". To me " ownerships " build dictators, " collective " build communities. In my future posts on any ideas will have the Collective Responsibilty Clause along with them. Those who wish to participate will know terms of engagement and really no one should have to bother if its such a big deal to them.
On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 9:20 AM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 8:40 AM, Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 12:16 AM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
Frankly not funny since nobody's input has ever been coerced. It actually offends when one reads directive-like from "above", fulani I have allocated you to x, nani do y, you fit there etc.. Folks should take ownership of their initiatives and that includes leadership of whatever it is that they start- i.e. not start by designating practical responsibilities while they remain safely shielded behind a technology veil.
@Alex, Collective responsibilty is also about people thinking for themselves, what needs to be done and what can be done. So definately we are opposites when it comes to doing things. I respect your view on " ownership" but you should also respect mine on " collective ". To me " ownerships " build dictators, " collective " build communities. In my future posts on any ideas will have the Collective Responsibilty Clause along with them. Those who wish to participate will know terms of engagement and really no one should have to bother if its such a big deal to them.
You got me wrong. I did not mean "ownership" in the sense of "shareholders" or "title deed" class of contexts. I meant participants feeling that they "own" the collective success e.g. http://www.leadershipandbusiness.com/2005/12/establishing_a_.html I had wished you would have also addressed other points that I raised?
On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 9:20 AM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 8:40 AM, Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com>wrote:
On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 12:16 AM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
Frankly not funny since nobody's input has ever been coerced. It actually offends when one reads directive-like from "above", fulani I have allocated you to x, nani do y, you fit there etc.. Folks should take ownership of their initiatives and that includes leadership of whatever it is that they start- i.e. not start by designating practical responsibilities while they remain safely shielded behind a technology veil.
@Alex, Collective responsibilty is also about people thinking for themselves, what needs to be done and what can be done. So definately we are opposites when it comes to doing things. I respect your view on " ownership" but you should also respect mine on " collective ". To me " ownerships " build dictators, " collective " build communities. In my future posts on any ideas will have the Collective Responsibilty Clause along with them. Those who wish to participate will know terms of engagement and really no one should have to bother if its such a big deal to them.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general
Good debate here, I shall follow it. I'm not political but result oriented which should also be the objectives. -- Conservatism is the adherence to the old tried against the new untried.
On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 10:14 AM, George Njoroge <themburu@gmail.com> wrote:
Good debate here, I shall follow it.
I'm not political but result oriented which should also be the objectives.
widening it just a little bit.... ‘What is wrong with us?’ -Dr Ndemo @ Skunkworks" http://blog.josiahmugambi.com/2009/08/04/dr-ndemo-skunkworks/ Individualism, winner-takes-all culture, bruising aggressiveness, despair, pessimism, negativity reinforcing, crushed aspirations, hopes, and freedoms, increased poverty and perpetuated slavery... I am of the opinion that all of the above need to be tackled sequentially, if not concurrently! regards, a.
Responses inline : ok, let me throw a spanner into the works! My opinion...:-) I have on very many ocassions shared ideas/ways etc to what the community can do or the number of projects I've openly listed on this list. I remember the thread early last year by Arthur and creating a financial scheme, while Crystal had suggested youth fund initiatives, or others who wanted to create what @Philip and others are discussing on this thread. I think there are many who have started initiatives only to realize that the thread goes to the archives. I know how this feels especially if they are great ideas and worth working. BTW, what happened of the wiki? Just wondering. Plenty of my thread contributions too are just a statistic in the archive. There is also the problem that founders of this list cannot take part in all ideas or other things so it would be too much to expect this. Until they work towards those goals, things will be difficult to move. For the majority, Skunks is a great place to discuss tech stuff and has different views. Sometimes some of us get carried away and want to do something but reality is very different. Some of us are hopeful some things being mentioned here can be a reality. Am so sure a few of the skunks want to be involved in the projects. And as Kiana said, as much as we are busy, there are many students in the forum who are willing to work things through. Like that can be part of their internship and of course we could end up using some big voices who are here, to recommend them after their are done with the project. And no one is to blame for this. Skunks did not start off as a club or ngo so it would be very difficult to create it as one. Politics never cease. But what to do, if that is what is going to get Canaan ( the promised land flowing with code and apps J) then why not? And I think for a long time it will remain what it is. And just so that you do not feel that you are alone on this, 2 of my threads ( ati 2010 devs year, kitu gani? ) are soon heading into the archives. Hehehe... A happy Jamuhuri day tomorrow :-) Rgds. Regards; James Muendo Leerick Office & Tech Supplies P.O Box 28016 - 00200 Nairobi,Kenya. Phone: + 254 725 567 508 gtalk: timrick Skype: tim.rick
participants (9)
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aki -
Gakuru Alex -
George Njoroge -
James Muendo -
Philip Musyoki -
Riyaz Bachani -
Solomon Mburu Kamau -
Tech List Kenya -
Tuma Barua