On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 9:49 AM, Rahim Kara <rahim@applecentre.co.ke> wrote:

you have a costing? or where can we check on the new prices?

Rahim, Here is what KDN told me they are charging on Seacom (minimum subscription is 512Kbps): 512/512Kbps --> US$ 300 per month 1/1Mbps --> US$ 600 per month 2/2Mbps --> US$ 1200 per month

From US$ 1,189 per month for 256/256Kbps on SAT, I believe you can calculate the reduction yourself.

-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ "If you have nothing good to say about someone, just shut up!." -- Lucky Dube

2009/8/12 Thomas Odol <thomasodol@gmail.com>

thats not good enough!

Kwani what did you expect? Isn't getting half a loaf not better than not getting anything at all? :-) If I was paying US$ 1,189 for 256Kbps up and down and the same amount can now give me 2Mbps.... -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ "If you have nothing good to say about someone, just shut up!." -- Lucky Dube

Congratulations to KDN at least they have set the tempo on price reduction. Lets not turn this forum to politics and appreciate what good has been done. 2009/8/12 mike oketch <mikeoketch@gmail.com>

Odhiambo. Thats still exploitative. Unless umezoea expensive rates. This is just way too expensive

2009/8/12 Odhiambo ワシントン <odhiambo@gmail.com>

...

2009/8/12 Thomas Odol <thomasodol@gmail.com>

...

thats not good enough!

Kwani what did you expect? Isn't getting half a loaf not better than not getting anything at all? :-)

If I was paying US$ 1,189 for 256Kbps up and down and the same amount can now give me 2Mbps....

-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ "If you have nothing good to say about someone, just shut up!." -- Lucky Dube

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aki is seriously an encyclopaedia by himself. On public unis, KU is on KDN, and therefore on fiber. They got about 10mbps which they used to buy at 1.8 M Kes per mb per month before fiber. On 12/08/2009, Odhiambo ワシントン <odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:

2009/8/12 mike oketch <mikeoketch@gmail.com>

...

Odhiambo. Thats still exploitative. Unless umezoea expensive rates. This is just way too expensive

It's because no one else has given out anything better:-) My worry so far would be around the contract terms for such services.

-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ "If you have nothing good to say about someone, just shut up!." -- Lucky Dube

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Hi All, The contracts have a downward effect right from the Providers of the bandwidth, to the carriers, the service providers and lastly the users. They should be positively viewed in good faith to ascertain level of good business relationship two parties are to have since they come into play at the onset of the business venture in every case. In regard to the offer by KDN, we are proud to state that it is in deed the best in the market. We are endeared in provision of reliable service at affordable rates hence the frequent review on levels of services vis a vis their costs now and in the near future. Rgds, Dan O.Kwach, Kenya Data Networks. Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone from Zain Kenya -----Original Message----- From: mike oketch <mikeoketch@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 18:01:07 To: Skunkworks forum<skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Subject: {SPAM!} Re: [Skunkworks] KDN cut their rates by 90% last week....havent seen any of you skunkers commenting on this issue _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general

I Concur. The pricing is still relatively archaic. It's like saying we're paying for a lease line ( 2001 Pricing ) for a direct connection to an ISP Kenya and recieving their 32Kilobit connection For a 1Meg link the price of 600$ may be fair however it is not "Low" this is still just my opinion. Rahim. On Aug 12, 2009, at 10:43 AM, Thomas Odol wrote:

thats not good enough!

2009/8/12 Odhiambo ワシントン <odhiambo@gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 9:49 AM, Rahim Kara <rahim@applecentre.co.ke> wrote: you have a costing? or where can we check on the new prices?

Rahim,

Here is what KDN told me they are charging on Seacom (minimum subscription is 512Kbps):

512/512Kbps --> US$ 300 per month 1/1Mbps --> US$ 600 per month 2/2Mbps --> US$ 1200 per month

From US$ 1,189 per month for 256/256Kbps on SAT, I believe you can calculate the reduction yourself.

-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ "If you have nothing good to say about someone, just shut up!." -- Lucky Dube

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Understood the concept and agreed brother, am also in complete agreement with your previous response about their inflation. Was a bit expectant about higher price reductions is all. I'm also in agreement with paul, it's a good thing they've started the price wars. Best, Rahim. On Aug 12, 2009, at 11:31 AM, aki wrote:

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 10:52 AM, Rahim Kara <rahim@applecentre.co.ke> wrote: I Concur.

The pricing is still relatively archaic. It's like saying we're paying for a lease line ( 2001 Pricing ) for a direct connection to an ISP Kenya and recieving their 32Kilobit connection For a 1Meg link the price of 600$ may be fair however it is not "Low" this is still just my opinion.

Rahim.

Rahim, if your service provider is buying dedicated capacity from KDN or Safaricom etc ( those network operators who are on Seacom ) and selling it onwards, then this example of cost reduction :

Eg : Service Providers say currently charges 1Mbit/512kbps @ Kshs 70,000/- per month . If they are on Seacom, then the rate for the same package should today be less than Kshs 20,000/- per month.

Why the price drop? Because what KDN offers is what Service Providers buy. So KDN guarantees that the 600USD/Mbit ( compared to 3500USD/Mbit ) from the internet backbone to service provider network. Then the service provider, using built in mechanisms, shares the services to end users which really is good as users dont have to pay high rates on dedicated services.

Incase you may not understand dedicated and shared : when you place an international call, you pay for an end to end connection between you and the other party. In data networks, core capacity is guaranteed in circuits that carry the data ( Mbit/s ). Shared call services will drop calls as busy and end connection cannot be found while in data, the connections are queued which basically means slow speeds. HTH's.

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For now it is for ISP's to maintain their revenues! An ISP with 15 employees may have a payroll of say 1M per month. If they lower their costs (before tripling or quadrupling their client base) they will burn .... Unfortunately, they will still burn if they do not lower their prices fast enough to keep up with ISP's which have lower costs (and therefore can do with lower revenues). 2009/8/12 aki <aki275@googlemail.com>

But the problem is this : The SPs want to keep the same rates and increase the capacity to you by a factor of 3 or 4. Why?

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@hussein. for how long has it been down? the entire trunk or just portions? Hehehe.... investing in any telco business is as good as swimming in shark infested waters.. Better chicken and chips, at least one can buy a generator to power the fryer! :-) -- Sign on my car is " L " plates : c#.net

Joram, lol! Avoid trying to sell sat bandwidth as those satellites should have been decommissioned a long time ago. I'm sure if you and me took a space walk, those satellite are almost dead with falling solar panels... thus sat rates should have been much cheaper than what is being sold at. But some fellows at Teleports, in association with some teclos decided that we are the last frontier and found new use for them. I'm sure if skylab was orbiting today, that analogue system would have been feeding something above the equator. :-)

Thanks all for your contributions least i can argue from an informed point of view On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:40 PM, aki<aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:

@hussein. for how long has it been down? the entire trunk or just portions?  Hehehe.... investing in any telco business is as good as swimming in shark infested waters..

Better chicken and chips, at least one can buy a generator to power the fryer! :-) -- Sign on my car is " L " plates : c#.net

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Cool info --- I dont understand why they have to decommission the satellites though - the guys on satellite business still believe that they are here to stay.. However, if I were an evil business man - I would keep a guy in Ukambani on a payroll to cut fibre at periodic intervals [anytime I flash him via mobile phone] - this would be my hardship area employee, fully certified by HR. This would keep me in biznes for years....

It a shame when trunks have issues and " its just another day " feeling that comes from it. That's why the simplest of things like chipo and kuku ( micro-investments ) makes more sense then bigger, smarter entities. We are repeatedly proving innovation is *based on old ideas, been there , done that * kind of a thing but made to look better and it seems to work. That will remain our destiny until we get some serious people who have a passion to change things around. I can tell you if I was director gen at cck, downtime penalty imposed on any operator would be nothing less than Kshs 1 million per day, no questions asked. Can you imagine what impression kampala or later kigali would have of kenya because they have to depend on the cable? Story sound similar to Nigeria and Benin.... Who cares since it seems no one can get it right. Yes faster internet, excellent. Innovation based around ip networks, forget it for a long time. kuku na chipo via sms ( dumb and useless protocol ) best innovation. Time to move on to higher up on the OSI layers and focus on things which are positively creative and don't depend on wish lists. My opinion....

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 9:09 AM, <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote:

Aki,

I doubt if the issue with the trunk was given an "its just another day" kind of feeling! Is there any sufficient justification for this statement?

Rgds, Dan O.Kwach, Kenya Data Networks.

Hi Dan, my personal observation.... repairing a trunk and downtime as an operator is discouraging ( 1 day in a year is fine ) . Am sure tkl will do no better. ( back to the days of card failures at kentsream resulted in internet outages for days... ) What will it take to create trunks as mission critical networks? I'm sure there was plenty of efforts and running around to get it going from KDN's part but that is irrelevant. Because of the trunk failure, redundancy is via satellite. Satellite capacity is not offered for free i.e 90% more expensive, so who bears the cost of downtime? The end users. SP providers will provision their rates based on how much fiber capacity needed and also sat redundancy bandwidth. Rates cannot drop drastically due to un-reliability. I wonder what HE Museveni had to say about the downtime or in future HE Kagame? These two countries are dependent on the fiber via kenya. -- Sign on my car is " L " plates : c#.net

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 10:20 AM, <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote:

Hi Aki,

I earlier mentioned in a different thread KDN's initiative to build a redundant link to ensure resiliency on trunk links.

You can be sure KDN and probably other operators understand quite well the need for uninterrupted services. We are all struggling to achieve this. Give us time to meet this goal. As it goes "Rome wasn't build in one single day".

It takes quite sometime leave alone other resources to build fiber network links spanning 1500km and ensure protection of the physical route. We just made undersea cable connection a reality, protecting it is our present day challenge and time will tell.

Rgds, Dan O.Kwach, Kenya Data Networks.

Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone from Zain Kenya

Hello Dan :-) KDN has made huge significant progress towards network liberation, unlike others who I've been virtually screaming at for their wimax limited short term solutions rather than building national networks. For that KDN is still pioneer and well known, the first cable operator to bring seacom to kenyans at dropped rates. But somehow the trunk reliability issues have to change and with speed to match the growth of the sector. Safcom has now a strange sat redunduncy ( I think BT is back in the market ) and I think justified not to drop rates much sooner. Good luck and many thanks for your response. :-) With Rgds. -- Sign on my car is " L " plates : c#.net

Hi Daudi, See comments below. Rgds, Dan O.Kwach, Kenya Data Networks. _____ From: skunkworks-bounces@lists.my.co.ke [mailto:skunkworks-bounces@lists.my.co.ke] On Behalf Of Daudi Were Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 10:53 AM To: Skunkworks forum Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] KDN cut their rates by 90% last week....haventseenany of you skunkers commenting on this issue Dan, Thanks for your open engagement on this list. It is a very refreshing change. Would you please tackle these questions for those of us who are interested: 1. Why weren't the fall back links built before Seacom got here? If "KDN and probably other operators understand quite well the need for uninterrupted services" why not factor that in the plan right from the beginning? Is it a cost issue? A tech issue? A management issue? [Dan O.Kwach] Fall back positions were well taken care of way before Seacom got here. KDN has been in the process of developing a redundant link for its highway fiber link. As I said, building a redundant fiber link cable to protect the current fiber link from Msa to Bungoma, in the long run to Kigali Rwanda takes time - time has been the major factor, we have a lot of regulatory requirements to gain approval for the necessary way-leaves besides use of private land in some instances, a lot of funds is necessary to ensure smooth running of the installation process besides the need to ensure quality work during the whole project. All this was factored in way before activating the service. KDN chose to provide the Seacom connection whilst it burns the midnight candle to avail the necessary protection link. 2. How wide, nationally, has the KDN fibre reached? For example are guys in Kakamega etc on Seacom as well? [Dan O.Kwach] Seacom link is available Nationally wherever KDN Network coverage is available all the way to Kampala Uganda, guys in Kakamega can definitely enjoy the service. Any queries as to where you want the Seacom link provisioned for you, kindly shout out to sales@kdn.co.ke. Just trying to understand here! Thanks D On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 10:20 AM, <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote: Hi Aki, I earlier mentioned in a different thread KDN's initiative to build a redundant link to ensure resiliency on trunk links. You can be sure KDN and probably other operators understand quite well the need for uninterrupted services. We are all struggling to achieve this. Give us time to meet this goal. As it goes "Rome wasn't build in one single day". It takes quite sometime leave alone other resources to build fiber network links spanning 1500km and ensure protection of the physical route. We just made undersea cable connection a reality, protecting it is our present day challenge and time will tell. Rgds, Dan O.Kwach, Kenya Data Networks. Sent from my BlackBerryR smartphone from Zain Kenya _____ From: aki Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:57:09 +0300 To: <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke>; Skunkworks forum<skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] KDN cut their rates by 90% last week....haventseen any of you skunkers commenting on this issue On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 9:09 AM, <dan.kwach@kdn.co.ke> wrote: Aki, I doubt if the issue with the trunk was given an "its just another day" kind of feeling! Is there any sufficient justification for this statement? Rgds, Dan O.Kwach, Kenya Data Networks. Hi Dan, my personal observation.... repairing a trunk and downtime as an operator is discouraging ( 1 day in a year is fine ) . Am sure tkl will do no better. ( back to the days of card failures at kentsream resulted in internet outages for days... ) What will it take to create trunks as mission critical networks? I'm sure there was plenty of efforts and running around to get it going from KDN's part but that is irrelevant. Because of the trunk failure, redundancy is via satellite. Satellite capacity is not offered for free i.e 90% more expensive, so who bears the cost of downtime? The end users. SP providers will provision their rates based on how much fiber capacity needed and also sat redundancy bandwidth. Rates cannot drop drastically due to un-reliability. I wonder what HE Museveni had to say about the downtime or in future HE Kagame? These two countries are dependent on the fiber via kenya. -- Sign on my car is " L " plates : c#.net _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general -- Pamoja e:daudi.were@gmail.com <mailto:e%3Adaudi.were@gmail.com> skype: d.were