Kenya in list of Failed States
All Just came across this article that ranks us in a list of failed states along with Lebanon, Zimbabwe and Somalia. http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/12/13/wikifailed?page=0,5&sms_ss=... Surely we are not doing that bad or are we ? Such bad press has a tendency to affect investment . Kev
We are a failed state trying to dust itself up and try again - and we will get out of it sooner, but we did get in if you look at the exact meaning in wikipaedia ./Ok3ch On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Kevin Ouma <kevin.ouma@gmail.com> wrote:
All Just came across this article that ranks us in a list of failed states along with Lebanon, Zimbabwe and Somalia. http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/12/13/wikifailed?page=0,5&sms_ss=... Surely we are not doing that bad or are we ? Such bad press has a tendency to affect investment .
Kev
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We are totally failed. A complete failure. On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 12:28 PM, Okechukwu <okechukwu@gmail.com> wrote:
We are a failed state trying to dust itself up and try again - and we will get out of it sooner, but we did get in if you look at the exact meaning in wikipaedia
./Ok3ch
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Kevin Ouma <kevin.ouma@gmail.com> wrote:
All Just came across this article that ranks us in a list of failed states along with Lebanon, Zimbabwe and Somalia.
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/12/13/wikifailed?page=0,5&sms_ss=...
Surely we are not doing that bad or are we ? Such bad press has a tendency to affect investment .
Kev
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On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 12:30 PM, solomon kariri <solomonkariri@gmail.com>wrote:
We are totally failed. A complete failure.
Those are pretty strong words. what matters most is the perception, in the end that is what carries the day in the eyes of the foreign news editors regards Patrick
Who cares what some article by some guy seated in some city in another country says? If an article was written calling all of us fools would you believe it just because someone said so? What does it matter that he thinks we are a failed state ? Are you a failed citizen? Regards, Mark Mwangi http://mwangy.posterous.com My profiles: [image: Facebook] <http:www.facebook.com/Eng.Kangy> [image: Twitter] <www.twitter.com/Mwangy> Signature powered by <http://www.wisestamp.com/email-install?utm_source=extension&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=footer> WiseStamp<http://www.wisestamp.com/email-install?utm_source=extension&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=footer> On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 12:49 PM, Patrick Karanja <wabethi@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 12:30 PM, solomon kariri <solomonkariri@gmail.com>wrote:
We are totally failed. A complete failure.
Those are pretty strong words. what matters most is the perception, in the end that is what carries the day in the eyes of the foreign news editors
regards
Patrick
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@ Mwangy i read the article and it makes sense to me. Lets not stay in denial of whats is true to us. My profiles: [image: Facebook]<http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#%21/profile.php?id=1272219139> [image: Twitter] <http://twitter.com/#%21/dutchezjuma> [image: MySpace]<http://www.myspace.com/dutchez8> [image: WordPress] <http://nairobee.wordpress.com/> [image: Twitter] <http://twitter.com/dutchezjuma> twitter Kenya listed among #WikiFailed States - By Elizabeth Dickinson | Foreign Policy http://t.co/cArcDf1 #failedstates #kenyansontwitter Follow @dutchezjuma <http://twitter.com/dutchezjuma> <http://twitter.com/?status=@dutchezjuma%20&in_reply_to_status_id=15329467916353536&in_reply_to=dutchezjuma> Reply<http://twitter.com/?status=@dutchezjuma%20&in_reply_to_status_id=15329467916353536&in_reply_to=dutchezjuma> <http://twitter.com/?status=RT%20%40dutchezjuma%3A%20Kenya%20listed%20among%20%23WikiFailed%20States%20-%20By%20Elizabeth%20Dickinson%20%7C%20Foreign%20Policy%20http%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FcArcDf1%20%23failedstates%20%23kenyansontwitter> Retweet<http://twitter.com/?status=RT%20%40dutchezjuma%3A%20Kenya%20listed%20among%20%23WikiFailed%20States%20-%20By%20Elizabeth%20Dickinson%20%7C%20Foreign%20Policy%20http%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FcArcDf1%20%23failedstates%20%23kenyansontwitter> 11:56 Dec-16 <http://twitter.com/dutchezjuma/statuses/15329467916353536> Get this email app! <http://www.wisestamp.com/apps/twitter?utm_source=extension&utm_medium=email&utm_term=twitter&utm_campaign=apps> Signature powered by <http://www.wisestamp.com/email-install?utm_source=extension&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=footer> WiseStamp<http://www.wisestamp.com/email-install?utm_source=extension&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=footer> On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 2:27 PM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
Who cares what some article by some guy seated in some city in another country says? If an article was written calling all of us fools would you believe it just because someone said so? What does it matter that he thinks we are a failed state ? Are you a failed citizen?
Regards,
Mark Mwangi
http://mwangy.posterous.com My profiles: [image: Facebook] <http:www.facebook.com/Eng.Kangy> [image: Twitter] <http://www.twitter.com/Mwangy> Signature powered by <http://www.wisestamp.com/email-install?utm_source=extension&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=footer> WiseStamp<http://www.wisestamp.com/email-install?utm_source=extension&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=footer>
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 12:49 PM, Patrick Karanja <wabethi@gmail.com>wrote:
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 12:30 PM, solomon kariri <solomonkariri@gmail.com
wrote:
We are totally failed. A complete failure.
Those are pretty strong words. what matters most is the perception, in the end that is what carries the day in the eyes of the foreign news editors
regards
Patrick
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Hi guys, I think it is important for whoever is saying that Kenya is a failed state to think twice about the statement. Some people may have failed yes, but I don't think we have all failed. Based on available resources and exposure I think as individuals we are doing fine. I think each country has its challenges. None is perfect. Regards Richard Gathogo. On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 2:49 PM, @dutchezjuma <dutchez8@gmail.com> wrote:
@ Mwangy i read the article and it makes sense to me. Lets not stay in denial of whats is true to us.
My profiles: [image: Facebook]<http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#%21/profile.php?id=1272219139> [image: Twitter] <http://twitter.com/#%21/dutchezjuma> [image: MySpace]<http://www.myspace.com/dutchez8> [image: WordPress] <http://nairobee.wordpress.com/> [image: Twitter] <http://twitter.com/dutchezjuma> twitter Kenya listed among #WikiFailed States - By Elizabeth Dickinson | Foreign Policy http://t.co/cArcDf1 #failedstates #kenyansontwitter Follow @dutchezjuma <http://twitter.com/dutchezjuma> <http://twitter.com/?status=@dutchezjuma%20&in_reply_to_status_id=15329467916353536&in_reply_to=dutchezjuma> Reply<http://twitter.com/?status=@dutchezjuma%20&in_reply_to_status_id=15329467916353536&in_reply_to=dutchezjuma> <http://twitter.com/?status=RT%20%40dutchezjuma%3A%20Kenya%20listed%20among%20%23WikiFailed%20States%20-%20By%20Elizabeth%20Dickinson%20%7C%20Foreign%20Policy%20http%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FcArcDf1%20%23failedstates%20%23kenyansontwitter> Retweet<http://twitter.com/?status=RT%20%40dutchezjuma%3A%20Kenya%20listed%20among%20%23WikiFailed%20States%20-%20By%20Elizabeth%20Dickinson%20%7C%20Foreign%20Policy%20http%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FcArcDf1%20%23failedstates%20%23kenyansontwitter> 11:56 Dec-16<http://twitter.com/dutchezjuma/statuses/15329467916353536> Get this email app! <http://www.wisestamp.com/apps/twitter?utm_source=extension&utm_medium=email&utm_term=twitter&utm_campaign=apps>
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On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 2:27 PM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
Who cares what some article by some guy seated in some city in another country says? If an article was written calling all of us fools would you believe it just because someone said so? What does it matter that he thinks we are a failed state ? Are you a failed citizen?
Regards,
Mark Mwangi
http://mwangy.posterous.com My profiles: [image: Facebook] <http:www.facebook.com/Eng.Kangy> [image: Twitter] <http://www.twitter.com/Mwangy> Signature powered by <http://www.wisestamp.com/email-install?utm_source=extension&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=footer> WiseStamp<http://www.wisestamp.com/email-install?utm_source=extension&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=footer>
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 12:49 PM, Patrick Karanja <wabethi@gmail.com>wrote:
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 12:30 PM, solomon kariri < solomonkariri@gmail.com> wrote:
We are totally failed. A complete failure.
Those are pretty strong words. what matters most is the perception, in the end that is what carries the day in the eyes of the foreign news editors
regards
Patrick
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Well it depends on the men status. If the mean status is failure, then we are a failed state. On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Richard Gathogo <muraguri2005@gmail.com>wrote:
Hi guys, I think it is important for whoever is saying that Kenya is a failed state to think twice about the statement. Some people may have failed yes, but I don't think we have all failed. Based on available resources and exposure I think as individuals we are doing fine. I think each country has its challenges. None is perfect. Regards Richard Gathogo.
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 2:49 PM, @dutchezjuma <dutchez8@gmail.com> wrote:
@ Mwangy i read the article and it makes sense to me. Lets not stay in denial of whats is true to us.
My profiles: [image: Facebook]<http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#%21/profile.php?id=1272219139> [image: Twitter] <http://twitter.com/#%21/dutchezjuma> [image: MySpace]<http://www.myspace.com/dutchez8> [image: WordPress] <http://nairobee.wordpress.com/> [image: Twitter] <http://twitter.com/dutchezjuma> twitter Kenya listed among #WikiFailed States - By Elizabeth Dickinson | Foreign Policy http://t.co/cArcDf1 #failedstates #kenyansontwitter Follow @dutchezjuma <http://twitter.com/dutchezjuma> <http://twitter.com/?status=@dutchezjuma%20&in_reply_to_status_id=15329467916353536&in_reply_to=dutchezjuma> Reply<http://twitter.com/?status=@dutchezjuma%20&in_reply_to_status_id=15329467916353536&in_reply_to=dutchezjuma> <http://twitter.com/?status=RT%20%40dutchezjuma%3A%20Kenya%20listed%20among%20%23WikiFailed%20States%20-%20By%20Elizabeth%20Dickinson%20%7C%20Foreign%20Policy%20http%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FcArcDf1%20%23failedstates%20%23kenyansontwitter> Retweet<http://twitter.com/?status=RT%20%40dutchezjuma%3A%20Kenya%20listed%20among%20%23WikiFailed%20States%20-%20By%20Elizabeth%20Dickinson%20%7C%20Foreign%20Policy%20http%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FcArcDf1%20%23failedstates%20%23kenyansontwitter> 11:56 Dec-16<http://twitter.com/dutchezjuma/statuses/15329467916353536> Get this email app! <http://www.wisestamp.com/apps/twitter?utm_source=extension&utm_medium=email&utm_term=twitter&utm_campaign=apps>
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On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 2:27 PM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
Who cares what some article by some guy seated in some city in another country says? If an article was written calling all of us fools would you believe it just because someone said so? What does it matter that he thinks we are a failed state ? Are you a failed citizen?
Regards,
Mark Mwangi
http://mwangy.posterous.com My profiles: [image: Facebook] <http:www.facebook.com/Eng.Kangy> [image: Twitter] <http://www.twitter.com/Mwangy> Signature powered by <http://www.wisestamp.com/email-install?utm_source=extension&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=footer> WiseStamp<http://www.wisestamp.com/email-install?utm_source=extension&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=footer>
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 12:49 PM, Patrick Karanja <wabethi@gmail.com>wrote:
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 12:30 PM, solomon kariri < solomonkariri@gmail.com> wrote:
We are totally failed. A complete failure.
Those are pretty strong words. what matters most is the perception, in the end that is what carries the day in the eyes of the foreign news editors
regards
Patrick
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-- Solomon Kariri, Software Developer, Cell: +254736 729 450 Skype: solomonkariri
I tend to concur with Mr Juma and perhaps to some extent agree with the article. For one we still do not have judicial and police mechanisms that work. I know we may argue that we now have a new constitution but the last I checked this process has ground to a halt. In the meantime political and tribal tensions seem to be rising almost giving me a dejavu feeling of 2007. Will 2012 make it look like a Christmas party ? Cheers Kevin On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Richard Gathogo <muraguri2005@gmail.com>wrote:
Hi guys, I think it is important for whoever is saying that Kenya is a failed state to think twice about the statement. Some people may have failed yes, but I don't think we have all failed. Based on available resources and exposure I think as individuals we are doing fine. I think each country has its challenges. None is perfect. Regards Richard Gathogo.
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 2:49 PM, @dutchezjuma <dutchez8@gmail.com> wrote:
@ Mwangy i read the article and it makes sense to me. Lets not stay in denial of whats is true to us.
My profiles: [image: Facebook]<http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#%21/profile.php?id=1272219139> [image: Twitter] <http://twitter.com/#%21/dutchezjuma> [image: MySpace]<http://www.myspace.com/dutchez8> [image: WordPress] <http://nairobee.wordpress.com/> [image: Twitter] <http://twitter.com/dutchezjuma> twitter Kenya listed among #WikiFailed States - By Elizabeth Dickinson | Foreign Policy http://t.co/cArcDf1 #failedstates #kenyansontwitter Follow @dutchezjuma <http://twitter.com/dutchezjuma> <http://twitter.com/?status=@dutchezjuma%20&in_reply_to_status_id=15329467916353536&in_reply_to=dutchezjuma> Reply<http://twitter.com/?status=@dutchezjuma%20&in_reply_to_status_id=15329467916353536&in_reply_to=dutchezjuma> <http://twitter.com/?status=RT%20%40dutchezjuma%3A%20Kenya%20listed%20among%20%23WikiFailed%20States%20-%20By%20Elizabeth%20Dickinson%20%7C%20Foreign%20Policy%20http%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FcArcDf1%20%23failedstates%20%23kenyansontwitter> Retweet<http://twitter.com/?status=RT%20%40dutchezjuma%3A%20Kenya%20listed%20among%20%23WikiFailed%20States%20-%20By%20Elizabeth%20Dickinson%20%7C%20Foreign%20Policy%20http%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FcArcDf1%20%23failedstates%20%23kenyansontwitter> 11:56 Dec-16<http://twitter.com/dutchezjuma/statuses/15329467916353536> Get this email app! <http://www.wisestamp.com/apps/twitter?utm_source=extension&utm_medium=email&utm_term=twitter&utm_campaign=apps>
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On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 2:27 PM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
Who cares what some article by some guy seated in some city in another country says? If an article was written calling all of us fools would you believe it just because someone said so? What does it matter that he thinks we are a failed state ? Are you a failed citizen?
Regards,
Mark Mwangi
http://mwangy.posterous.com My profiles: [image: Facebook] <http:www.facebook.com/Eng.Kangy> [image: Twitter] <http://www.twitter.com/Mwangy> Signature powered by <http://www.wisestamp.com/email-install?utm_source=extension&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=footer> WiseStamp<http://www.wisestamp.com/email-install?utm_source=extension&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=footer>
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 12:49 PM, Patrick Karanja <wabethi@gmail.com>wrote:
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 12:30 PM, solomon kariri < solomonkariri@gmail.com> wrote:
We are totally failed. A complete failure.
Those are pretty strong words. what matters most is the perception, in the end that is what carries the day in the eyes of the foreign news editors
regards
Patrick
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The only way of getting out of anything is to first accept where you are, if you in denial, then you will remain why you are. ./Ok3ch On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 3:32 PM, Kevin Ouma <kevin.ouma@gmail.com> wrote:
I tend to concur with Mr Juma and perhaps to some extent agree with the article.
For one we still do not have judicial and police mechanisms that work. I know we may argue that we now have a new constitution but the last I checked this process has ground to a halt.
In the meantime political and tribal tensions seem to be rising almost giving me a dejavu feeling of 2007. Will 2012 make it look like a Christmas party ?
Cheers Kevin
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Richard Gathogo <muraguri2005@gmail.com>wrote:
Hi guys, I think it is important for whoever is saying that Kenya is a failed state to think twice about the statement. Some people may have failed yes, but I don't think we have all failed. Based on available resources and exposure I think as individuals we are doing fine. I think each country has its challenges. None is perfect. Regards Richard Gathogo.
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 2:49 PM, @dutchezjuma <dutchez8@gmail.com> wrote:
@ Mwangy i read the article and it makes sense to me. Lets not stay in denial of whats is true to us.
My profiles: [image: Facebook]<http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#%21/profile.php?id=1272219139> [image: Twitter] <http://twitter.com/#%21/dutchezjuma> [image: MySpace]<http://www.myspace.com/dutchez8> [image: WordPress] <http://nairobee.wordpress.com/> [image: Twitter] <http://twitter.com/dutchezjuma> twitter Kenya listed among #WikiFailed States - By Elizabeth Dickinson | Foreign Policy http://t.co/cArcDf1 #failedstates #kenyansontwitter Follow @dutchezjuma <http://twitter.com/dutchezjuma> <http://twitter.com/?status=@dutchezjuma%20&in_reply_to_status_id=15329467916353536&in_reply_to=dutchezjuma> Reply<http://twitter.com/?status=@dutchezjuma%20&in_reply_to_status_id=15329467916353536&in_reply_to=dutchezjuma> <http://twitter.com/?status=RT%20%40dutchezjuma%3A%20Kenya%20listed%20among%20%23WikiFailed%20States%20-%20By%20Elizabeth%20Dickinson%20%7C%20Foreign%20Policy%20http%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FcArcDf1%20%23failedstates%20%23kenyansontwitter> Retweet<http://twitter.com/?status=RT%20%40dutchezjuma%3A%20Kenya%20listed%20among%20%23WikiFailed%20States%20-%20By%20Elizabeth%20Dickinson%20%7C%20Foreign%20Policy%20http%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FcArcDf1%20%23failedstates%20%23kenyansontwitter> 11:56 Dec-16<http://twitter.com/dutchezjuma/statuses/15329467916353536> Get this email app! <http://www.wisestamp.com/apps/twitter?utm_source=extension&utm_medium=email&utm_term=twitter&utm_campaign=apps>
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On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 2:27 PM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
Who cares what some article by some guy seated in some city in another country says? If an article was written calling all of us fools would you believe it just because someone said so? What does it matter that he thinks we are a failed state ? Are you a failed citizen?
Regards,
Mark Mwangi
http://mwangy.posterous.com My profiles: [image: Facebook] <http:www.facebook.com/Eng.Kangy> [image: Twitter] <http://www.twitter.com/Mwangy> Signature powered by <http://www.wisestamp.com/email-install?utm_source=extension&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=footer> WiseStamp<http://www.wisestamp.com/email-install?utm_source=extension&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=footer>
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 12:49 PM, Patrick Karanja <wabethi@gmail.com>wrote:
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 12:30 PM, solomon kariri < solomonkariri@gmail.com> wrote:
We are totally failed. A complete failure.
Those are pretty strong words. what matters most is the perception, in the end that is what carries the day in the eyes of the foreign news editors
regards
Patrick
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my problem with such articles is that it reinforces the notion that 3rd world countries are ruled and inhabited by barbarians and need western help to do anything constructive. So there was violence in 2007/2008, so we still have the perpetrators loose. Big deal. If any conflict makes a country a failed state then no country even the holier-than-though US is exempt. They went through more than enough bloodshed in their infancy for them to take higher ground and publish such reports. Am not saying the reports are wrong or inaccurate. Am just saying lending them credence and weight is rather timid. Regards, Mark Mwangi http://mwangy.posterous.com My profiles: [image: Facebook] <http:www.facebook.com/Eng.Kangy> [image: Twitter] <www.twitter.com/Mwangy> Signature powered by <http://www.wisestamp.com/email-install?utm_source=extension&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=footer> WiseStamp<http://www.wisestamp.com/email-install?utm_source=extension&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=footer> On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 3:52 PM, Okechukwu <okechukwu@gmail.com> wrote:
The only way of getting out of anything is to first accept where you are, if you in denial, then you will remain why you are.
./Ok3ch
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 3:32 PM, Kevin Ouma <kevin.ouma@gmail.com> wrote:
I tend to concur with Mr Juma and perhaps to some extent agree with the article.
For one we still do not have judicial and police mechanisms that work. I know we may argue that we now have a new constitution but the last I checked this process has ground to a halt.
In the meantime political and tribal tensions seem to be rising almost giving me a dejavu feeling of 2007. Will 2012 make it look like a Christmas party ?
Cheers Kevin
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Richard Gathogo <muraguri2005@gmail.com>wrote:
Hi guys, I think it is important for whoever is saying that Kenya is a failed state to think twice about the statement. Some people may have failed yes, but I don't think we have all failed. Based on available resources and exposure I think as individuals we are doing fine. I think each country has its challenges. None is perfect. Regards Richard Gathogo.
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 2:49 PM, @dutchezjuma <dutchez8@gmail.com>wrote:
@ Mwangy i read the article and it makes sense to me. Lets not stay in denial of whats is true to us.
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On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 2:27 PM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
Who cares what some article by some guy seated in some city in another country says? If an article was written calling all of us fools would you believe it just because someone said so? What does it matter that he thinks we are a failed state ? Are you a failed citizen?
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On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 12:49 PM, Patrick Karanja <wabethi@gmail.com>wrote:
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 12:30 PM, solomon kariri < solomonkariri@gmail.com> wrote:
> We are totally failed. A complete failure. > > > Those are pretty strong words. what matters most is the perception, in the end that is what carries the day in the eyes of the foreign news editors
regards
Patrick
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@Mark, IMO, I think we need to distinguish the conflict aspect first. The 2007/2008 violence is a big deal because no one in the world expected kenyans to do what they did, which was barbaric in these modern times. When a country's citizens turn on each other on the scale of 2008 there is a very big disaster waiting to happen, it is the fire that will fuel unstoppable consequences. Without accountability of such actions, the only glue that holds kenya together is the money flowing into the economy, nothing else. For the perpetrators, they can easily sit on a plane to another country while leaving the country in flames. I think the International Community regard kenyans as extremely resourceful people and know that Kenya's stability and future growth affects other neighbours too. So a lot is expected from us, as regional leaders. We need to accept that we are a global player in many ways, not a local one which probably explains why the presence agencies like the UN at Gigiri. We also need to accept that there are problems that need urgent attention. Me thots. On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 3:59 PM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
my problem with such articles is that it reinforces the notion that 3rd world countries are ruled and inhabited by barbarians and need western help to do anything constructive. So there was violence in 2007/2008, so we still have the perpetrators loose. Big deal. If any conflict makes a country a failed state then no country even the holier-than-though US is exempt. They went through more than enough bloodshed in their infancy for them to take higher ground and publish such reports.
Am not saying the reports are wrong or inaccurate. Am just saying lending them credence and weight is rather timid.
But the above article is simply quoting what is put up on Wikileaks?
@aki so does that mean we are a failed state? On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 8:30 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
But the above article is simply quoting what is put up on Wikileaks? _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
@aki so does that mean we are a failed state?
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 8:30 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
But the above article is simply quoting what is put up on Wikileaks? _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
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I think in Political science 101 the key characteristic that show or defines what a state is and what a failed state is what u should revise or read to remove your ignorance. On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 11:26 AM, Ben mukash <mukashh@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
@aki so does that mean we are a failed state?
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 8:30 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
But the above article is simply quoting what is put up on Wikileaks? _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
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An excerpt from wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Failed_state#2010 denotes Kenya on alert towards being a failed state, and so is Nigeria, Sudan, DRC .. 2010 <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Failed-states-index-2010.png> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Failed-states-index-2010.png> Failed States according to the "Failed States Index 2010" of *Foreign Policy * Alert Warning No Information / Dependent Territory Moderate Sustainable 177 states were included in the list, of which 37 were classified as "alert", 92 as "warning", 35 as "moderate", 13 as "sustainable". The worst 20 states are shown below. For the entire ranking see List of countries by Failed States Index<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Failed_States_Index>. Change in rank from 2009 is shown in parentheses. There was a tie for 19th place between North Korea and Niger.[18]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Failed_state#cite_note-17> 1. Somalia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalia> (0) 2. Chad <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chad> (+2) 3. Sudan <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudan> (0) 4. Zimbabwe <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimbabwe> (-2) 5. Democratic Republic of the Congo<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Republic_of_the_Congo> (0) 6. Afghanistan <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan> (+1) 7. Iraq <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq> (-1) 8. Central African Republic<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_African_Republic> (0) 9. Guinea <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinea> (0) 10. Pakistan <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan> (0) 11. Haiti <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiti> (+1) 12. Côte d'Ivoire <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%C3%B4te_d%27Ivoire> (-1) 13. Kenya <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenya> (+1) 14. Nigeria <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigeria> (+1) 15. Yemen <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemen> (+4) 16. Burma <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burma> (-3) 17. Ethiopia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopia> (-1) 18. Timor-Leste <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Timor> (+2) 19. North Korea <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea> (-2) 19. Niger <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niger> (+4) On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 11:28 AM, Ben mukash <mukashh@gmail.com> wrote:
I think in Political science 101 the key characteristic that show or defines what a state is and what a failed state is what u should revise or read to remove your ignorance.
On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 11:26 AM, Ben mukash <mukashh@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
@aki so does that mean we are a failed state?
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 8:30 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
But the above article is simply quoting what is put up on Wikileaks? _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
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Most developed Nations were once failed states, we are on the right path, we shall overcome the challenges we have and be among the developed Nations very soon. Best Regards On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 11:33 AM, Kevin Ouma <kevin.ouma@gmail.com> wrote:
An excerpt from wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Failed_state#2010 denotes Kenya on alert towards being a failed state, and so is Nigeria, Sudan, DRC ..
2010 <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Failed-states-index-2010.png> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Failed-states-index-2010.png> Failed States according to the "Failed States Index 2010" of *Foreign Policy* Alert Warning No Information / Dependent Territory Moderate Sustainable
177 states were included in the list, of which 37 were classified as "alert", 92 as "warning", 35 as "moderate", 13 as "sustainable". The worst 20 states are shown below. For the entire ranking see List of countries by Failed States Index<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Failed_States_Index>. Change in rank from 2009 is shown in parentheses. There was a tie for 19th place between North Korea and Niger.[18]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Failed_state#cite_note-17>
1. Somalia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalia> (0) 2. Chad <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chad> (+2) 3. Sudan <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudan> (0) 4. Zimbabwe <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimbabwe> (-2) 5. Democratic Republic of the Congo<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Republic_of_the_Congo> (0) 6. Afghanistan <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan> (+1) 7. Iraq <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq> (-1) 8. Central African Republic<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_African_Republic> (0) 9. Guinea <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinea> (0) 10. Pakistan <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan> (0)
11. Haiti <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiti> (+1) 12. Côte d'Ivoire <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%C3%B4te_d%27Ivoire> (-1) 13. Kenya <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenya> (+1) 14. Nigeria <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigeria> (+1) 15. Yemen <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemen> (+4) 16. Burma <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burma> (-3) 17. Ethiopia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopia> (-1) 18. Timor-Leste <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Timor> (+2) 19. North Korea <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea> (-2) 19. Niger <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niger> (+4)
On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 11:28 AM, Ben mukash <mukashh@gmail.com> wrote:
I think in Political science 101 the key characteristic that show or defines what a state is and what a failed state is what u should revise or read to remove your ignorance.
On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 11:26 AM, Ben mukash <mukashh@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
@aki so does that mean we are a failed state?
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 8:30 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
But the above article is simply quoting what is put up on Wikileaks? _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
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Woi; I dint know we are doing that bad!!
Thanks aki. All these 'symptoms' are present in every government/institution run by humans in one form or another and to varying degrees. Do you mean to say the American or European governments aren't corrupt? As the wikipedia page posted by kevin shows there are 177 states in the 'list' and even the USA is in moderate condition not sustainable. No state is perfect and Kenya as we know it may not exist in another 200 years. After all the country is only 47 yrs old. Going around declaring this or that state is failed is rather callous and irresponsible not to say rude. I tend to think we are in a comfort zone where there hasn't been any serious war where a country is invaded and taken over by the attacker in the roman empire building ways and we thus believe that is past us and we will live on in harmony and countries will only compete commercially on the supermarket shelf represented by their commercial companies. The nuclear stand-off has granted a good long window for people to figure out how to fight without killing everything on the planet. Hence the peace. Its not a change of heart or reasoning.Victory would be pointless if y'all die of radiation in a few weeks. Anyway, some article will not convince me that a young nation that has been on the brink of civil war and somehow pulled back is a failed state. Regards, Mark Mwangi http://mwangy.posterous.com My profiles: [image: Facebook] <http:www.facebook.com/Eng.Kangy> [image: Twitter] <www.twitter.com/Mwangy> Signature powered by <http://www.wisestamp.com/email-install?utm_source=extension&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=footer> WiseStamp<http://www.wisestamp.com/email-install?utm_source=extension&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=footer> On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 4:51 PM, ndungu stephen <ndungustephen@gmail.com>wrote:
Woi; I dint know we are doing that bad!! _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
Mark Well put. just food for thought ..did we pull out of civil war or are we in a break for round 2 in 2012 ? On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 9:09 PM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks aki. All these 'symptoms' are present in every government/institution run by humans in one form or another and to varying degrees. Do you mean to say the American or European governments aren't corrupt?
As the wikipedia page posted by kevin shows there are 177 states in the 'list' and even the USA is in moderate condition not sustainable. No state is perfect and Kenya as we know it may not exist in another 200 years. After all the country is only 47 yrs old. Going around declaring this or that state is failed is rather callous and irresponsible not to say rude.
I tend to think we are in a comfort zone where there hasn't been any serious war where a country is invaded and taken over by the attacker in the roman empire building ways and we thus believe that is past us and we will live on in harmony and countries will only compete commercially on the supermarket shelf represented by their commercial companies.
The nuclear stand-off has granted a good long window for people to figure out how to fight without killing everything on the planet. Hence the peace. Its not a change of heart or reasoning.Victory would be pointless if y'all die of radiation in a few weeks.
Anyway, some article will not convince me that a young nation that has been on the brink of civil war and somehow pulled back is a failed state.
Regards,
Mark Mwangi
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On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 4:51 PM, ndungu stephen <ndungustephen@gmail.com>wrote:
Woi; I dint know we are doing that bad!! _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
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@Mark, I understand where you are coming. I'm not an expert on such matters but I think you should re-read some of the basic points I listed, they contain a pointers that could lead to you to understand the differences. For example and just taking one point of bad governance, one may have the money to go play golf, have a safe haven or gated compound, buy a laptop, modem, air-time, pay rent, buy a house, buy a car etc etc does not mean that all this will exist in the next few years if stable and good governance is missing. On your point of a nation being on the brink of a civil war and pulling back, you may also want to reseach into this point : What makes War Lords, you may just find some very interesting reading. As I said in another thread, politics is not my thing so I listed my basic knowledge and I'll let the experts comment on this thread. Asante. :-)
@Mark, what are the criteria for a failed state? These are my thots, imho. - Bad Governance - Lack of commitment to rule and respect of law - Lack of commitment to international treaties and conventions - Lack of sustainable self rule - Abuse of office at National Levels - Massive economic crimes and corruption - Lack of protection and due process for its citizens The list is growing but you may add too. :-) Asante. On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
@aki so does that mean we are a failed state?
There are very many successful Somali businessmen. Would that therefore mean that Somalia is not a failed state? I smell denial. Pungent denial. On this thread. Look at our cops, our hospitals (public, that is). It does not take every individual citizen to be a failure to make a failed state. The government recently came up with this campaign "Najivunia kuwa Mkenya". If my memory serves me right, that catchphrase was met with scorn and ridicule. Why? Apparently, there is nothing to be proud of in being Kenyan according to as many as ridiculed that attempt by the government to promote patriotism or whatever the cause was behind that campaign. I personally believe that we are a failed state. Not because I am a failure surrounded by like-minded people as myself but because of the system of government that we have put in power and our culture of tribalism and corruption. Should I also mention the criteria by which we elect councillors (yeah, those apparently grown and pot-bellied men who engage in fisticuffs at City Hall every once in a while) and our lawmakers. The kind of lawmakers we send to *bunge *does tell a lot, in my opinion, about the electorate. In case you may not be aware, my opinions a re just mine and therefore debatable and disagreeable. Me. On 16 December 2010 15:32, Kevin Ouma <kevin.ouma@gmail.com> wrote:
I tend to concur with Mr Juma and perhaps to some extent agree with the article.
For one we still do not have judicial and police mechanisms that work. I know we may argue that we now have a new constitution but the last I checked this process has ground to a halt.
In the meantime political and tribal tensions seem to be rising almost giving me a dejavu feeling of 2007. Will 2012 make it look like a Christmas party ?
Cheers Kevin
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Richard Gathogo <muraguri2005@gmail.com>wrote:
Hi guys, I think it is important for whoever is saying that Kenya is a failed state to think twice about the statement. Some people may have failed yes, but I don't think we have all failed. Based on available resources and exposure I think as individuals we are doing fine. I think each country has its challenges. None is perfect. Regards Richard Gathogo.
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 2:49 PM, @dutchezjuma <dutchez8@gmail.com> wrote:
@ Mwangy i read the article and it makes sense to me. Lets not stay in denial of whats is true to us.
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On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 2:27 PM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
Who cares what some article by some guy seated in some city in another country says? If an article was written calling all of us fools would you believe it just because someone said so? What does it matter that he thinks we are a failed state ? Are you a failed citizen?
Regards,
Mark Mwangi
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On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 12:49 PM, Patrick Karanja <wabethi@gmail.com>wrote:
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 12:30 PM, solomon kariri < solomonkariri@gmail.com> wrote:
We are totally failed. A complete failure.
Those are pretty strong words. what matters most is the perception, in the end that is what carries the day in the eyes of the foreign news editors
regards
Patrick
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Now you know how Mugabe feels. Regards.
All
Just came across this article that ranks us in a list of failed states along with Lebanon, Zimbabwe and Somalia. http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/12/13/wikifailed?page=0,5&sms_ss=...
Surely we are not doing that bad or are we ? Such bad press has a tendency to affect investment .
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participants (14)
-
＠dutchezjuma -
aki -
Barrack Otieno -
Ben mukash -
Dennis Kioko -
Kevin Ouma -
Mark Mwangi -
ndungu stephen -
Okechukwu -
Patrick Karanja -
Richard Gathogo -
Simon Mbuthia -
solomon kariri -
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