Excuse me Barack "we might not have the requisite capacity on such lists to ensure that such projects are delivered on time"??? Are you kidding me?! I think this mailing list has some of the most technologically apt minds in the country right now, if i may say so. If i remember correctly Wesley (I think) asked a somewhat similar question sometime last year when the government was procuring the ports management system (or something of the sort) for tens (or was it hundreds) of millions of shillings. I do believe we have the skills to: manage, develop and deploy such as system (from the top of my head - look at the success ushahidi. As for management/organisation look at the barcamp events). @barack - I do agree that you have a point - government agencies do have to play their part but then what happends when they dont (we sit back and castigate them as we wait and hope they'll act?? I think not). If top down structures dont work then we try bottom up! -Billy 2009/6/28 Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>
Thanks Alkags,
For clarity purposes i assumed you were in a position to influence something in that direction and that is what i wanted to bring out not "Al Kags " the person so it is not an attack on your personality.
To respond to your second paragraph i agree with your sentiments but unless we address such issues which i consider *basic catalysts*, then questions similar to the one you have posted will continue dominating this lists, on WHAT WE NEED TO DO is to have the *right structures* in place, this can only be done by engaging opinion shapers from government and private sector. Finally and to answer the question i beleive the organization might just have to do with individuals due to the fact that we might not have the requisite capacity on such lists to ensure that such projects are delivered on time.
Many thanks
On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 9:18 PM, Al Kags <alkags@gmail.com> wrote:
Barrack,
First, I want to state here that I am not authorised to speak on behalf of government neither do I officially represent government. I do not here speak as a government official but as a professional. As I said, I know of an organisation that is RIGHT NOW considering to try this model out. So it is not a theoretical question but a practical one.
In this spirit, I propose that frustrated discussion of what government is/isn't/can/could/should/etc do is futile for purposes of this specific conversation. We really should move from such discussions of who is failing to what we need to do as young people. In the model described below, there is no discussions on government.
So now: As regard my question, should the organisations in question continue to consider bringing this project to individuals in this forum, and therefore we discuss the "how" as per my questions earlier asked, or do we get into a conversation as to failures etc?
Al Kags alkags.com
On 6/28/09, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:
Al Kags, i would wish to throw the challenge back to you as a government officer, what you are talking about is no doubt achievable going by the strides i have seen in this forum nonetheless, what is the government and or related agencies like KICTB doing to inculcate this culture among our youth? dont forget tax payers money is used for such agencies to act as our thinktanks, in my opinion, our strategies at the top level are the ones failing us because a tam can be put together but possibilities of unscrupulous businessmen taking advantage of "cheap labour " from our highly talented youth are high this is where we are failing... I stand to be corrected
On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 5:59 PM, Al Kags <alkags@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all.
Much has been said on this forum about government, organisations and companies not giving much work to developers who do are not companies. having spoken to a few people who could give the contracts etc., i understood them to say that the concerns were that their concerns are:-
1. They cannot be assured of the freelance developers level of quality. 2. They cannot be assured of the freelance developers delivery time - that they will deliver everything they say they will at the appointed time 3. That they require too much supervision 4. That they over promise. 5. The development of a website/application requires several competences - designer, IA, developer, integrator etc. The contention is that you guys don't/won't work together as a team.
Here's a question:
If an organisation/ company was to decide to do a call for entries/ tender of sorts for a significant web project to be delivered by a team of freelance individuals from this forum, can it be done?
The sub-parts of these question are:-
a) Can you form a team consisting of Project Manager (to assure everything is done in time, guide the proposal making etc); Designer (who does outstanding designs in CSS); Developer(s) who can work well with Google Aps - integrate Gmaps etc into the site; mobile developer to develop mobile apps, etc; integrator to ensure that the site is seamless?
b) Can your team come together and bid for the project in detail - including what you can put together, timelines, budgets, documentations etc? (Each member of the team would sign a contract and would be paid as an individual for their quoted rate)
c) Can the team that wins the bid implement the project in such a seamless and timely manner, delivering such high quality that the project can stand up as a model that the government, organisations and companies can use to contract you?
d) Being that this is such an untried model, would the other developers in the skunkworks arena support the winning team to ensure that they succeed in delivering the project at the highest possible quality and within the exact time they promised to do so? If yes, what is the structure that skunkworks would use to do this?
Here's my thinking. A lot of the developers and other related professionals here are passionate and really good at what they do, and they often just need a chance. Not everyone can be employed by the 3mice etc of this world and so its a challenge to give everyone a chance.
Given the concerns expressed by the client group, the onus is on interested people here to prove to them that the model of contracting individual freelance professionals here is a workable one.
I know one organisation that would be interested in trying it out. So before they make a further move, I bring the idea here to you and ask,
what is possible?
-- Al Kags ----------------------- Founder, The Desturi Trust http://www.alkags.com _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Skunkworks announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general
-- Barrack O. Otieno ISSEN CONSULTING Tel: +254721325277 +254733206359 http://projectdiscovery.or.ke To give up the task of reforming society is to give up ones responsibility as a free man. Alan Paton, South Africa
-- Al Kags ----------------------- Founder, The Desturi Trust http://www.alkags.com _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Skunkworks announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general
-- Barrack O. Otieno ISSEN CONSULTING Tel: +254721325277 +254733206359 http://projectdiscovery.or.ke To give up the task of reforming society is to give up ones responsibility as a free man. Alan Paton, South Africa
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Skunkworks announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general