Re: [Skunkworks] USD 600 per MB on KDN's Fiber Network ??$%^^&*&*
and the practice by ISPs the world over. In the US, Europe you get a 2mb, 5mb service etc. Prices of bandwidth in the US are say anywhere between $10-30 range per mb. Yet they sell the services for less, like $20. The internet is shared, there is no dedicated internet. R ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michuki Mwangi" <michuki.mwangi@gmail.com> To: "Skunkworks forum" <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Cc: "skunkworks" <skunkworks@my.co.ke> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 8:43:27 AM GMT +03:00 Iraq Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] USD 600 per MB on KDN's Fiber Network ??$%^^&*&* Hi Martin, Martin Muraguri wrote:
Just saw this ad in the Daily Nation.. Well from what my maths teacher said ..like 20 years ago if *USD 600 = 1000kb* then *256kb = USD 153.6 = KSH 10752*
This is what you would pay for a non-contended link. Some ISPs my offer that service but in normal practice that every 1MB is sold to an average ratio of 1:5 or higher. In such a case then you can divide the 600 by a value between 5 - 10 and see what it will cost on a contended circuit which is what most end users will buy. Some demanding Corporates will request for the non-contended links. Therefore; 600/5 = USD 120 = 9,360/pm 600/10 = USD 60 = 4,680/pm PS: I dont speak for KDN but speculating based on current ISP practice. Regards, Mich.
Is this not too expensive ... How and when is the price of Internet connections going to come down?
The last thing i want is a Super Fast connection i cant afford!!
Maina Muraguri.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Guys please enlighten me; are we talking MBs' or Mbs'? If my connection is 1Mb is this the connection all the way to the net, say for example Safcom offers me 2Mb is this the speed to the net? Are there diffrent costs to the Band width; If I wanted to link up my offices say in Mombasa Kisumu Nairobi .. this is kind of local content... If I had a an Office say in London, Cairo that would mean am using the Undersea cable are they sold diffrently... Sorry forgive my ignorance I am not in the Know of these things... 2009/6/15 Riyaz Bachani <riyaz.bachani@ke.wananchi.com>
and the practice by ISPs the world over. In the US, Europe you get a 2mb, 5mb service etc. Prices of bandwidth in the US are say anywhere between $10-30 range per mb. Yet they sell the services for less, like $20. The internet is shared, there is no dedicated internet.
R
----- Original Message ----- From: "Michuki Mwangi" <michuki.mwangi@gmail.com> To: "Skunkworks forum" <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Cc: "skunkworks" <skunkworks@my.co.ke> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 8:43:27 AM GMT +03:00 Iraq Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] USD 600 per MB on KDN's Fiber Network ??$%^^&*&*
Hi Martin,
Martin Muraguri wrote:
Just saw this ad in the Daily Nation.. Well from what my maths teacher said ..like 20 years ago if *USD 600 = 1000kb* then *256kb = USD 153.6 = KSH 10752*
This is what you would pay for a non-contended link. Some ISPs my offer that service but in normal practice that every 1MB is sold to an average ratio of 1:5 or higher.
In such a case then you can divide the 600 by a value between 5 - 10 and see what it will cost on a contended circuit which is what most end users will buy. Some demanding Corporates will request for the non-contended links. Therefore;
600/5 = USD 120 = 9,360/pm 600/10 = USD 60 = 4,680/pm
PS: I dont speak for KDN but speculating based on current ISP practice.
Regards,
Mich.
Is this not too expensive ... How and when is the price of Internet connections going to come down?
The last thing i want is a Super Fast connection i cant afford!!
Maina Muraguri.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Skunkworks announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Skunkworks announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general
-- Watson wanjohi kambo
Bandwidth is usually measured in (mega)bits per second (Mbps).My best simplification of it is to think of it as a road -> comparing the current dual carriageway thika road to a (hopefully soon) 5 lane Nairobi Thika road. As for the second part of the question, there are pro's in the house who can answer it better than I can. Josiah Mugambi +254 738 504418 http://blog.josiahmugambi.com SK Classifeds... Visit stockskenya.co.ke for more info. On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Watson Kambo <wkwats@gmail.com> wrote:
Guys please enlighten me; are we talking MBs' or Mbs'? If my connection is 1Mb is this the connection all the way to the net, say for example Safcom offers me 2Mb is this the speed to the net? Are there diffrent costs to the Band width; If I wanted to link up my offices say in Mombasa Kisumu Nairobi .. this is kind of local content... If I had a an Office say in London, Cairo that would mean am using the Undersea cable are they sold diffrently...
Sorry forgive my ignorance I am not in the Know of these things...
2009/6/15 Riyaz Bachani <riyaz.bachani@ke.wananchi.com>
and the practice by ISPs the world over. In the US, Europe you get a 2mb,
5mb service etc. Prices of bandwidth in the US are say anywhere between $10-30 range per mb. Yet they sell the services for less, like $20. The internet is shared, there is no dedicated internet.
R
----- Original Message ----- From: "Michuki Mwangi" <michuki.mwangi@gmail.com> To: "Skunkworks forum" <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Cc: "skunkworks" <skunkworks@my.co.ke> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 8:43:27 AM GMT +03:00 Iraq Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] USD 600 per MB on KDN's Fiber Network ??$%^^&*&*
Hi Martin,
Martin Muraguri wrote:
Just saw this ad in the Daily Nation.. Well from what my maths teacher said ..like 20 years ago if *USD 600 = 1000kb* then *256kb = USD 153.6 = KSH 10752*
This is what you would pay for a non-contended link. Some ISPs my offer that service but in normal practice that every 1MB is sold to an average ratio of 1:5 or higher.
In such a case then you can divide the 600 by a value between 5 - 10 and see what it will cost on a contended circuit which is what most end users will buy. Some demanding Corporates will request for the non-contended links. Therefore;
600/5 = USD 120 = 9,360/pm 600/10 = USD 60 = 4,680/pm
PS: I dont speak for KDN but speculating based on current ISP practice.
Regards,
Mich.
Is this not too expensive ... How and when is the price of Internet connections going to come down?
The last thing i want is a Super Fast connection i cant afford!!
Maina Muraguri.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Skunkworks announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Skunkworks announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general
-- Watson wanjohi kambo
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Hi Watson, Watson Kambo wrote:
Guys please enlighten me; are we talking MBs' or Mbs'?
Mbps
If my connection is 1Mb is this the connection all the way to the net, say for example Safcom offers me 2Mb is this the speed to the net?
NO!. This is your allocation based on time share. That means if the whole 2Mbps is available then you get that all the way to the net, if other users allocated 2Mbps are using the link at the same time, then you get to share it equally amongst the number of users in your group that means if ratio is 1:10 - then you get to about 200Kbps etc etc. There may also be limitation on your local loop circuit (point to point link) from your office/home to the Service provider. If the base station in the wireless case has interference, over-subscription, back-haul issues, then you are likely to have problems getting 2Mbps even when you should to the net. The third point would be how well your client end is able to efficiently utilize the 2Mbps. I have seen instances where windows updates, viruses and other apps have consumed a larger share of the bandwidth to slow down stuff. Also you need to do some O/S specific optimization stuff to ensure that its able to take advantage of the availed capacity without competition or restraint from itself.
Are there diffrent costs to the Band width; If I wanted to link up my offices say in Mombasa Kisumu Nairobi .. this is kind of local content...
Linking branches would require you to buy point-to-point based on what you want to run on it, you may want to buy circuits from infrastructure providers to get the actual capacity (un-contended) or carry it over a contended circuit but push for some quality assurance from your ISP. Bro have pros and cons its all dependent on what you want to achieve. If
I had a an Office say in London, Cairo that would mean am using the Undersea cable are they sold diffrently...
Yes and you would similarly take options as above either buy point-2-point circuits (which normally turns out to be expensive) or have this running over the commodity internet only tagged as private traffic (mpls) or some VPN solution that maybe sold to you. This option will always turn out cheaper than buying actual circuits. Its also easier on the maintenance front since its an oursourced service to the provider.
Sorry forgive my ignorance I am not in the Know of these things...
HTH. Mich
Thanks Mich, So does it mean guys in Europe and Japan who have #Mbs, got a buddy in Sweden who has 11Mbps link, do not actually have the same its actually an 'upto #Mbs' .... Or is it coz, correct me if am wrong, most of the traffic might be Local ( only Swedish) that they get this then if its international traffic then they share... MY question is why the National fiber bandwith should cost the same as theUndersea ... I would think if all I do with my net is read email from my Kenya friends, and read Kenyan Newspaper probably watch kenyan TV online, then I can have enough capacity to do this like in Mbs... BR// Watson 2009/6/15 Michuki Mwangi <michuki.mwangi@gmail.com>
Hi Watson,
Watson Kambo wrote:
Guys please enlighten me; are we talking MBs' or Mbs'?
Mbps
If my connection is 1Mb is this the connection all the way to the net, say for example Safcom offers me 2Mb is this the speed to the net?
NO!. This is your allocation based on time share. That means if the whole 2Mbps is available then you get that all the way to the net, if other users allocated 2Mbps are using the link at the same time, then you get to share it equally amongst the number of users in your group that means if ratio is 1:10 - then you get to about 200Kbps etc etc.
There may also be limitation on your local loop circuit (point to point link) from your office/home to the Service provider. If the base station in the wireless case has interference, over-subscription, back-haul issues, then you are likely to have problems getting 2Mbps even when you should to the net.
The third point would be how well your client end is able to efficiently utilize the 2Mbps. I have seen instances where windows updates, viruses and other apps have consumed a larger share of the bandwidth to slow down stuff. Also you need to do some O/S specific optimization stuff to ensure that its able to take advantage of the availed capacity without competition or restraint from itself.
Are there diffrent costs to the Band width; If I wanted to link up my offices say in Mombasa Kisumu Nairobi .. this is kind of local content...
Linking branches would require you to buy point-to-point based on what you want to run on it, you may want to buy circuits from infrastructure providers to get the actual capacity (un-contended) or carry it over a contended circuit but push for some quality assurance from your ISP. Bro have pros and cons its all dependent on what you want to achieve.
If
I had a an Office say in London, Cairo that would mean am using the Undersea cable are they sold diffrently...
Yes and you would similarly take options as above either buy point-2-point circuits (which normally turns out to be expensive) or have this running over the commodity internet only tagged as private traffic (mpls) or some VPN solution that maybe sold to you. This option will always turn out cheaper than buying actual circuits. Its also easier on the maintenance front since its an oursourced service to the provider.
Sorry forgive my ignorance I am not in the Know of these things...
HTH.
Mich _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Skunkworks announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general
-- Watson wanjohi kambo
Watson, Watson Kambo wrote:
Thanks Mich,
So does it mean guys in Europe and Japan who have #Mbs, got a buddy in Sweden who has 11Mbps link, do not actually have the same its actually an 'upto #Mbs' .... Or is it coz, correct me if am wrong, most of the traffic might be Local ( only Swedish) that they get this then if its international traffic then they share...
Its the very same as my previous mail with the following significant differences. the 11Mbps connection mostly on some DSL service has proper backhaul to the ISP. Contention on the last mile is hardly an issue. As you rightfully observed with a greater percentage of the traffic being local (also known as peering - mainly at no cost - aka bill and keep) and with cheap local capacity available to the providers - connecting to the local exchange for over 60 percent of your traffic becomes a trivial experience. As with Sweden, Korea, Germany and others most ISPs have between multiple 1Gbps, 10Gps and 40 Gbps links to the IXP. At such high capacities having 1:4 contention ratios or less becomes the norm. The cost of transit (traffic that cannot be reached through peering hence needs to going through some carriers network depending on where you are this could be about 40% on average for some maybe more), is relatively cheaper compared. For instance transit costs with operators like Congent and others is around $6/Mbps and highest will be about $10/Mbps. (see www.drpeering.net). Therefore when buying in bulk it becomes cheaper. MY question is why the National fiber bandwith
should cost the same as theUndersea ... I would think if all I do with my net is read email from my Kenya friends, and read Kenyan Newspaper probably watch kenyan TV online, then I can have enough capacity to do this like in Mbs...
The cost of the local infrastructure with competition normally brings such costs down. Therefore if your ISP was able to buy dark fiber or huge circuits from one building to another or to an IXP for a rate thats within reason this may change. As it stands the last mile is underdeveloped and hence we cannot see any significant cost reductions at this stage. By under-developed what i mean is that the operators with the infrastructure have failed to realise the kind of gold they have on the ground. Folks still sell 128kbps on fiber while the rest of the fiber lays idle. In the 25yrs fiber cables have its worth making sure that you make use of each year of its life - one year less is money lost. Best regards, Mich.
Thanks alot am now well informed... Then I think the challenge is now on the Govt, the ISPs and the final User, we should develop this Peering habit, coz come to think of it the Govt now has like a country wide network of the fiber; so basically farmers, teachers, students, doctors etc can now be connected both locally and international... basically one can run a BPO from any major Town in Kenya and you will agree with me the cost of running one say in Eld would be way cheaper than Nai. But I also think the biggest challenge is to the content providers and developers, we need to localize the content, what will make the Farmer, to get online, is it only to check one email from a family member abroad or is it to catchup with the market in Nai, Kisumu etc? What will make the student in Kitale go online, is it to catchup on the latest mchongoano on mchongoano.co.ke or does he/she have to check the same on a .com site hosted in the US? Coz I believe as much as the first world is well connected, huge % traffic is local to that country.... // Watson 2009/6/15 Michuki Mwangi <michuki@swiftkenya.com>
Watson,
Watson Kambo wrote:
Thanks Mich,
So does it mean guys in Europe and Japan who have #Mbs, got a buddy in Sweden who has 11Mbps link, do not actually have the same its actually an 'upto #Mbs' .... Or is it coz, correct me if am wrong, most of the traffic might be Local ( only Swedish) that they get this then if its international traffic then they share...
Its the very same as my previous mail with the following significant differences.
the 11Mbps connection mostly on some DSL service has proper backhaul to the ISP. Contention on the last mile is hardly an issue.
As you rightfully observed with a greater percentage of the traffic being local (also known as peering - mainly at no cost - aka bill and keep) and with cheap local capacity available to the providers - connecting to the local exchange for over 60 percent of your traffic becomes a trivial experience. As with Sweden, Korea, Germany and others most ISPs have between multiple 1Gbps, 10Gps and 40 Gbps links to the IXP. At such high capacities having 1:4 contention ratios or less becomes the norm.
The cost of transit (traffic that cannot be reached through peering hence needs to going through some carriers network depending on where you are this could be about 40% on average for some maybe more), is relatively cheaper compared. For instance transit costs with operators like Congent and others is around $6/Mbps and highest will be about $10/Mbps. (see www.drpeering.net). Therefore when buying in bulk it becomes cheaper.
MY question is why the National fiber bandwith
should cost the same as theUndersea ... I would think if all I do with my net is read email from my Kenya friends, and read Kenyan Newspaper probably watch kenyan TV online, then I can have enough capacity to do this like in Mbs...
The cost of the local infrastructure with competition normally brings such costs down. Therefore if your ISP was able to buy dark fiber or huge circuits from one building to another or to an IXP for a rate thats within reason this may change. As it stands the last mile is underdeveloped and hence we cannot see any significant cost reductions at this stage.
By under-developed what i mean is that the operators with the infrastructure have failed to realise the kind of gold they have on the ground. Folks still sell 128kbps on fiber while the rest of the fiber lays idle. In the 25yrs fiber cables have its worth making sure that you make use of each year of its life - one year less is money lost.
Best regards,
Mich.
-- Watson wanjohi kambo
participants (5)
-
Josiah Mugambi -
Michuki Mwangi -
Michuki Mwangi -
Riyaz Bachani -
Watson Kambo