Re: [Skunkworks] Kenya IGF 2011 List Discussions Day 4 Cloud Computing
Dear Listers, 1. What role should the government play to promote cloud computing in Kenya? 2. What practical steps should we take as a nation that will move cloud computing from a lofty idea into a strategic commercial resource? -- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno
@Barrack, I don't even know where to start on this issue of govt policies. Anything and everthing is wrong with economic policies, and only after the Mobile Platform hangover has faded out is when we will realize that 99% of everything else is wanting. Why would the govt promote cloud computing as a national importance when they gave out the digitization project to Google? Our data now sits on Google servers! I believe that those interested in cloud services should shun these until the govt leads on such, let us stop pretending that the private sector is the drive while the govt is waiting to give away secretly decided World Bank funded projects. I also think that before we proceed on any further discussions, we need to know why the Govt choose Google as the cloud service. Rgds. On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 9:14 PM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>wrote:
Dear Listers,
1. What role should the government play to promote cloud computing in Kenya? 2. What practical steps should we take as a nation that will move cloud computing from a lofty idea into a strategic commercial resource?
@Aki, Am going to play the devils advocate here :). On 7/5/11 7:51 AM, aki wrote:
Why would the govt promote cloud computing as a national importance when they gave out the digitization project to Google? Our data now sits on Google servers!
Why not?.
I believe that those interested in cloud services should shun these until the govt leads on such,
Please tell me is there any local company in Kenya that can provide services that can compete or match Google's cloud services?.
I also think that before we proceed on any further discussions, we need to know why the Govt choose Google as the cloud service.
Maybe we should compare it to this. Why is the Govt going for VW Passats yet we have the Nyayo Pioneer car idling somewhere or am i mistaken?. But on a more serious note - has anyone build an infrastructure here and am not talking about a Data Center with all the bells and whistles. Am talking about a service framework that is scalable and robust enough to make the GoK think twice about giving their services to that provider?. Here am not talking about the scale of Google am talking small enough to handle GoK but scalable to handle all of E.A Govts and more without breaking. We are lacking in many extends from both technical expertise (and am sure many folks will differ with me on this one) and more driven by the $ than by the technology to care to know how to build it all together. We have been quick to say that why reinvent the wheel in so many of the forums here (including myself). However, the downside of not reinventing the wheel is we take the wheel and use it without understanding why it was built that way - we just know that we need it and we use it (see Joomla discussion). In conclusion, we have quickly to making revenues from a technology we barely understand. As a result, those who understand it better will always outcompete the rest of us. If you think about it - long before there was cloud folks had something called rocketmail and hotmail. Then came yahoo and even then their business model was a mystery to many in actual sense online advertising was still a distant concept in 1997 - 2000. But see what they lead to today. So basically they made the wheel and improved on the wheel and now its no longer a wheel but a mirage of a wheel. My 2 cents. Michuki. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
You bring an interesting dimension to the debate Mich, i agree with your perspective as well. Best Regards On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 9:59 AM, Michuki Mwangi <michuki@swiftkenya.com>wrote:
@Aki,
Am going to play the devils advocate here :).
On 7/5/11 7:51 AM, aki wrote:
Why would the govt promote cloud computing as a national importance when they gave out the digitization project to Google? Our data now sits on Google servers!
Why not?.
I believe that those interested in cloud services should shun these until the govt leads on such,
Please tell me is there any local company in Kenya that can provide services that can compete or match Google's cloud services?.
I also think that before we proceed on any further discussions, we need to know why the Govt choose Google as the cloud service.
Maybe we should compare it to this. Why is the Govt going for VW Passats yet we have the Nyayo Pioneer car idling somewhere or am i mistaken?.
But on a more serious note - has anyone build an infrastructure here and am not talking about a Data Center with all the bells and whistles. Am talking about a service framework that is scalable and robust enough to make the GoK think twice about giving their services to that provider?. Here am not talking about the scale of Google am talking small enough to handle GoK but scalable to handle all of E.A Govts and more without breaking.
We are lacking in many extends from both technical expertise (and am sure many folks will differ with me on this one) and more driven by the $ than by the technology to care to know how to build it all together.
We have been quick to say that why reinvent the wheel in so many of the forums here (including myself). However, the downside of not reinventing the wheel is we take the wheel and use it without understanding why it was built that way - we just know that we need it and we use it (see Joomla discussion).
In conclusion, we have quickly to making revenues from a technology we barely understand. As a result, those who understand it better will always outcompete the rest of us.
If you think about it - long before there was cloud folks had something called rocketmail and hotmail. Then came yahoo and even then their business model was a mystery to many in actual sense online advertising was still a distant concept in 1997 - 2000. But see what they lead to today. So basically they made the wheel and improved on the wheel and now its no longer a wheel but a mirage of a wheel.
My 2 cents.
Michuki.
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Actually the problem starts in school. We never bother looking 'under the wheel'... It has to do with this 'cramming' culture we developed. If you ever attend 80-90% of classes in Kenya (be it in University/High School), you as a student are forced to attend classes for one purpose and one purpose only, to write notes. Asking questions, probing, curiosity etc are frowned upon. The notes then proceed to be crammed (either into one's brain or into a 'mwakenya') for purposes of regurgitation in the exam room. The end result is: 1. A curriculum where, a colleague who went to KU in 1990 was given the example of a radio as disruptive technology. I was given the same example in 2006, (after the iPod, GMail, Computer) etc. I was *not* allowed to be inquisitive, or give fresh examples. I remember exchanging notes with one said student and they were the same, word for word. The lecturer had never changed them. 2. A workforce where we only work with technology we have been trained in, and avoid, at pain of death, figuring out how things work. We are stuck on CMS's with very few people actually developing *any* modules for the CMS's. If we, as a nation are aiming to get more people looking to develop, we need to encourage people to ask questions, be inquisitive without any consequences. I don't understand why we keep forcing our students to write notes that they simply proceed to cram for exams, and apply the same thinking to technology... This problem by the way, is not limited to the IT industry. As someone pointed out, high schools where the students were allowed to tinker with tech resulted in more innovative students (in tech), perhaps some of the competency issues should be addressed in the curriculum. On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 5:12 PM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>wrote:
You bring an interesting dimension to the debate Mich, i agree with your perspective as well.
Best Regards
On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 9:59 AM, Michuki Mwangi <michuki@swiftkenya.com>wrote:
@Aki,
Am going to play the devils advocate here :).
On 7/5/11 7:51 AM, aki wrote:
Why would the govt promote cloud computing as a national importance when they gave out the digitization project to Google? Our data now sits on Google servers!
Why not?.
I believe that those interested in cloud services should shun these until the govt leads on such,
Please tell me is there any local company in Kenya that can provide services that can compete or match Google's cloud services?.
I also think that before we proceed on any further discussions, we need to know why the Govt choose Google as the cloud service.
Maybe we should compare it to this. Why is the Govt going for VW Passats yet we have the Nyayo Pioneer car idling somewhere or am i mistaken?.
But on a more serious note - has anyone build an infrastructure here and am not talking about a Data Center with all the bells and whistles. Am talking about a service framework that is scalable and robust enough to make the GoK think twice about giving their services to that provider?. Here am not talking about the scale of Google am talking small enough to handle GoK but scalable to handle all of E.A Govts and more without breaking.
We are lacking in many extends from both technical expertise (and am sure many folks will differ with me on this one) and more driven by the $ than by the technology to care to know how to build it all together.
We have been quick to say that why reinvent the wheel in so many of the forums here (including myself). However, the downside of not reinventing the wheel is we take the wheel and use it without understanding why it was built that way - we just know that we need it and we use it (see Joomla discussion).
In conclusion, we have quickly to making revenues from a technology we barely understand. As a result, those who understand it better will always outcompete the rest of us.
If you think about it - long before there was cloud folks had something called rocketmail and hotmail. Then came yahoo and even then their business model was a mystery to many in actual sense online advertising was still a distant concept in 1997 - 2000. But see what they lead to today. So basically they made the wheel and improved on the wheel and now its no longer a wheel but a mirage of a wheel.
My 2 cents.
Michuki.
-- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno
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-- With Regards, Phares Kariuki | T: +254 720 406 093 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares | B: http://www.kaboro.com/ |
Hey Mich, you are very welcome to play the devil's advocate, but have you seen my retirement signature recently = ElDiablo. :-) Please find my replies inline below: On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 9:59 AM, Michuki Mwangi <michuki@swiftkenya.com>wrote:
@Aki,
Am going to play the devils advocate here :).
On 7/5/11 7:51 AM, aki wrote:
Why would the govt promote cloud computing as a national importance when they gave out the digitization project to Google? Our data now sits on Google servers!
Why not?.
I've got nothing against Google but for someone like me, it's more about ownership. And how we can/could have done the project differently. How will Google integrate an SMS based query service for such a project, if there is a cross platform need?
I believe that those interested in cloud services should shun these until the govt leads on such,
Please tell me is there any local company in Kenya that can provide services that can compete or match Google's cloud services?.
There is no one in Kenya who can match Google, however we need a start and a beginning. We cannot keep recycling the ideas that the infrastructure exists elsewhere, thus there is no need to do it.
I also think that before we proceed on any further discussions, we need to know why the Govt choose Google as the cloud service.
Maybe we should compare it to this. Why is the Govt going for VW Passats yet we have the Nyayo Pioneer car idling somewhere or am i mistaken?.
In Indonesia, they are very proud of the cars they produce, though some run on Mitsubishi and Benz engines. In South Korea, KIA and the rest are also building cross platform vehicles. You know am a staunch supporter of doing as much as we can locally, the re-invention of the wheel has never bothered me.
But on a more serious note - has anyone build an infrastructure here and am not talking about a Data Center with all the bells and whistles. Am talking about a service framework that is scalable and robust enough to make the GoK think twice about giving their services to that provider?. Here am not talking about the scale of Google am talking small enough to handle GoK but scalable to handle all of E.A Govts and more without breaking.
Demand = supply. Without the demand, we will never create the systems. Now GOK took the demand and put it outside the country.
We are lacking in many extends from both technical expertise (and am sure many folks will differ with me on this one) and more driven by the $ than by the technology to care to know how to build it all together.
Do you remember when Cisco was such a respected sector that they had to fly in specialists to do configs? I remember 1994--on a rooftop--too well. How times have changed, we are now a leading Cisco market that cannot be ignored. ISPs and Telcos made Serial Ports/Frame Relays obsolete and mostly focussed on ethernet type of services. What is the cost of the cheapset broadband router = around Ksh 2400/-. Telcos and ISPs need a push by GOK, more involvement to core services and then see how things all come together, over time.
We have been quick to say that why reinvent the wheel in so many of the forums here (including myself). However, the downside of not reinventing the wheel is we take the wheel and use it without understanding why it was built that way - we just know that we need it and we use it (see Joomla discussion).
You are absolutely correct here. Am with you 100%, lets not even call it re-inventing the wheel but adapting to local needs. We need to continue doing this.
In conclusion, we have quickly to making revenues from a technology we barely understand. As a result, those who understand it better will always outcompete the rest of us.
Blame this on GOK and its terrible economic entrepreneurships mentality, where supplying products is easier and results faster. Everyone's on the fast lane, only some of us are on the same road for now.
If you think about it - long before there was cloud folks had something called rocketmail and hotmail. Then came yahoo and even then their business model was a mystery to many in actual sense online advertising was still a distant concept in 1997 - 2000. But see what they lead to today. So basically they made the wheel and improved on the wheel and now its no longer a wheel but a mirage of a wheel.
Spot on Mich.
My 2 cents.
Michuki.
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-- The EL_Diablo is a metaphor...
- As Kenya's technical community, we should be stimulated by excellence. I see it every day and get very stimulated. Complaining, whining will slow you down, guys are moving forward. People confuse 'cloud' with big names, anyone here that has run 'xen' or 'vmware' at home or wherever has technically run a cloud, mpls is a cloud. This is how people learn. - We help each other to be great - the government here is one of us, and they of late seem to be showing a very high performance culture. If it is indeed true that a data centre build or whatever cloud thing is outsourced to google then obviously we should be concerned. - Hosting a small site with your photos can and should be done as close to you as possible. Preferably in your house - yes I also don't like facebook much, the idea of my parents, aunts,employer and friends in a single social group never appealed to me - go google+). So scan your photos, share them from a small server pc at home,write your favorite recipe, host your neighbors, if it's hard to get bandwidth, maybe arrange for community bandwidth/wifi to extend it, do whatever it takes to move forward. Start small, share security cameras, have free voip in your estate, do something. In this age of cheap bandwidth, mpesa and commodity hardware, all of us should have an ecommerce site. Start small. - Cloud - yes I believe a good cloud solution is possible with all the bells and whistles in Kenya, the technologies are widely available, some are free. This happens to be the sort of thing I do - build networks and now apparently design data centers - and while immediate needs and questions might not be easy to address, We shouldn't unnecessarily criticize every single step people take forward. - On the other hand- If for instance a company like airtel,zuku,safaricom or <insert big name here> wanted to build a data center in Uganda for whatever reason and backed up our data there, would I be happy? no, I want my data here and want assurance that it is somewhere with someone I can call and audit and feel safe. (there's an unconfirmed rumour that Rwandan's insisted MTN not move a single 'bit' of Rwandase data out of their borders) forcing them to plan for 'In Rwanda DC's. - There honestly is data about me I wouldn't want shared with people ouside our borders. What if there was war and all my bio data is 'over there'? - Technical knowhow can be easilly resolved by those in the know training/guiding/mentoring those 'who are interested in knowing'. AFNOG does a very good job of that for africa, so does IHUB and other forums - incidentally this should eb a technical 'learning' list:-). JGitau On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 9:59 AM, Michuki Mwangi <michuki@swiftkenya.com> wrote:
@Aki,
Am going to play the devils advocate here :).
On 7/5/11 7:51 AM, aki wrote:
Why would the govt promote cloud computing as a national importance when they gave out the digitization project to Google? Our data now sits on Google servers!
Why not?.
I believe that those interested in cloud services should shun these until the govt leads on such,
Please tell me is there any local company in Kenya that can provide services that can compete or match Google's cloud services?.
I also think that before we proceed on any further discussions, we need to know why the Govt choose Google as the cloud service.
Maybe we should compare it to this. Why is the Govt going for VW Passats yet we have the Nyayo Pioneer car idling somewhere or am i mistaken?.
But on a more serious note - has anyone build an infrastructure here and am not talking about a Data Center with all the bells and whistles. Am talking about a service framework that is scalable and robust enough to make the GoK think twice about giving their services to that provider?. Here am not talking about the scale of Google am talking small enough to handle GoK but scalable to handle all of E.A Govts and more without breaking.
We are lacking in many extends from both technical expertise (and am sure many folks will differ with me on this one) and more driven by the $ than by the technology to care to know how to build it all together.
We have been quick to say that why reinvent the wheel in so many of the forums here (including myself). However, the downside of not reinventing the wheel is we take the wheel and use it without understanding why it was built that way - we just know that we need it and we use it (see Joomla discussion).
In conclusion, we have quickly to making revenues from a technology we barely understand. As a result, those who understand it better will always outcompete the rest of us.
If you think about it - long before there was cloud folks had something called rocketmail and hotmail. Then came yahoo and even then their business model was a mystery to many in actual sense online advertising was still a distant concept in 1997 - 2000. But see what they lead to today. So basically they made the wheel and improved on the wheel and now its no longer a wheel but a mirage of a wheel.
My 2 cents.
Michuki.
-- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
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-- **Gitau
@ Mich, Phares, Aki, Sam, Paul and John Gitau, thank you for sharing your insights, you bring across very valid points, i hope Dr. Ndemo will respond to some of the questions thrown into his court, @ John, i think positive criticism is acceptable and plays a great role in advancement of communities, feel free to carry on with the posts even as we prepare to get into day 5. Best Regards On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 6:24 PM, John Gitau <jgitau@gmail.com> wrote:
- As Kenya's technical community, we should be stimulated by excellence. I see it every day and get very stimulated. Complaining, whining will slow you down, guys are moving forward. People confuse 'cloud' with big names, anyone here that has run 'xen' or 'vmware' at home or wherever has technically run a cloud, mpls is a cloud. This is how people learn. - We help each other to be great - the government here is one of us, and they of late seem to be showing a very high performance culture. If it is indeed true that a data centre build or whatever cloud thing is outsourced to google then obviously we should be concerned. - Hosting a small site with your photos can and should be done as close to you as possible. Preferably in your house - yes I also don't like facebook much, the idea of my parents, aunts,employer and friends in a single social group never appealed to me - go google+). So scan your photos, share them from a small server pc at home,write your favorite recipe, host your neighbors, if it's hard to get bandwidth, maybe arrange for community bandwidth/wifi to extend it, do whatever it takes to move forward. Start small, share security cameras, have free voip in your estate, do something. In this age of cheap bandwidth, mpesa and commodity hardware, all of us should have an ecommerce site. Start small. - Cloud - yes I believe a good cloud solution is possible with all the bells and whistles in Kenya, the technologies are widely available, some are free. This happens to be the sort of thing I do - build networks and now apparently design data centers - and while immediate needs and questions might not be easy to address, We shouldn't unnecessarily criticize every single step people take forward. - On the other hand- If for instance a company like airtel,zuku,safaricom or <insert big name here> wanted to build a data center in Uganda for whatever reason and backed up our data there, would I be happy? no, I want my data here and want assurance that it is somewhere with someone I can call and audit and feel safe. (there's an unconfirmed rumour that Rwandan's insisted MTN not move a single 'bit' of Rwandase data out of their borders) forcing them to plan for 'In Rwanda DC's. - There honestly is data about me I wouldn't want shared with people ouside our borders. What if there was war and all my bio data is 'over there'? - Technical knowhow can be easilly resolved by those in the know training/guiding/mentoring those 'who are interested in knowing'. AFNOG does a very good job of that for africa, so does IHUB and other forums - incidentally this should eb a technical 'learning' list:-).
JGitau
On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 9:59 AM, Michuki Mwangi <michuki@swiftkenya.com> wrote:
@Aki,
Am going to play the devils advocate here :).
On 7/5/11 7:51 AM, aki wrote:
Why would the govt promote cloud computing as a national importance when they gave out the digitization project to Google? Our data now sits on Google servers!
Why not?.
I believe that those interested in cloud services should shun these until the govt leads on such,
Please tell me is there any local company in Kenya that can provide services that can compete or match Google's cloud services?.
I also think that before we proceed on any further discussions, we need to know why the Govt choose Google as the cloud service.
Maybe we should compare it to this. Why is the Govt going for VW Passats yet we have the Nyayo Pioneer car idling somewhere or am i mistaken?.
But on a more serious note - has anyone build an infrastructure here and am not talking about a Data Center with all the bells and whistles. Am talking about a service framework that is scalable and robust enough to make the GoK think twice about giving their services to that provider?. Here am not talking about the scale of Google am talking small enough to handle GoK but scalable to handle all of E.A Govts and more without breaking.
We are lacking in many extends from both technical expertise (and am sure many folks will differ with me on this one) and more driven by the $ than by the technology to care to know how to build it all together.
We have been quick to say that why reinvent the wheel in so many of the forums here (including myself). However, the downside of not reinventing the wheel is we take the wheel and use it without understanding why it was built that way - we just know that we need it and we use it (see Joomla discussion).
In conclusion, we have quickly to making revenues from a technology we barely understand. As a result, those who understand it better will always outcompete the rest of us.
If you think about it - long before there was cloud folks had something called rocketmail and hotmail. Then came yahoo and even then their business model was a mystery to many in actual sense online advertising was still a distant concept in 1997 - 2000. But see what they lead to today. So basically they made the wheel and improved on the wheel and now its no longer a wheel but a mirage of a wheel.
My 2 cents.
Michuki.
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-- Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno
@Paul Kukubo, thanks for the input. Some of us very aware of the cloud opportunities and applications. Whether we take virtualization of data storage to creating terminal services, these environments exist. Whether SME or startups, they need cost cutting and affordable ways to maintain ICT continuity without breaking the bank. You bring a key point about Govt being the driver of data storage and management, yet there is a big disconnect between the private sector such as ISPs, Telcos, Developers and Govt. At this infant stage of clouding, in whatever context we may look at, Govt support is key as a catalyst of what cloud services could become. I strongly insist that all Govt projects should be kept within the borders and systems of KE. We need this ownership and aslo the ability to use the existing infrastructure. Govt needs to open up the world class data centre for private/public use and also its infrastructure like fiber so that anyone planning a system or such can know what the options are, besides other networks and services. There is no need to put up many data centres, if we already core ones in place. As govt representative, you also need to comeup with a development register that will notify Kenyans of planned projects and those interested can have ample planning and resource time to engage in such projects. Rgds.
Thank you Paul, Lucy and Aki for responding to issues raised by listers, i do hope we will all be available for the Face to Face meeting to cement our networks and look at how we can assist our governmnet since we are part and parcel of, feel free to continue contributing to the debate. Best Regards On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 8:29 AM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
@Paul Kukubo, thanks for the input. Some of us very aware of the cloud opportunities and applications. Whether we take virtualization of data storage to creating terminal services, these environments exist. Whether SME or startups, they need cost cutting and affordable ways to maintain ICT continuity without breaking the bank.
You bring a key point about Govt being the driver of data storage and management, yet there is a big disconnect between the private sector such as ISPs, Telcos, Developers and Govt. At this infant stage of clouding, in whatever context we may look at, Govt support is key as a catalyst of what cloud services could become. I strongly insist that all Govt projects should be kept within the borders and systems of KE. We need this ownership and aslo the ability to use the existing infrastructure. Govt needs to open up the world class data centre for private/public use and also its infrastructure like fiber so that anyone planning a system or such can know what the options are, besides other networks and services. There is no need to put up many data centres, if we already core ones in place.
As govt representative, you also need to comeup with a development register that will notify Kenyans of planned projects and those interested can have ample planning and resource time to engage in such projects.
Rgds.
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-- Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afriregister.bi, www.afriregister.com ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno
Hi Guys, My understanding of cloud computing is basically a shared/distributed service that allows for the massive storage of data. Through application interfaces a developer/entrepreneur can access this data and make a business out of it and most importantly scale. Using Google as an example it may not be able develop every niche product out there so it opens up its platform to developers either through android or chrome and plans to take a cut through its payment system google wallet. In the case of Kenya, Government owns/holds most of the data available and hence should lead the way in creating a Shared services and Cloud computing policy. That is why the Open Data Initiative is an idea whose time has come. What is the most efficient way of managing this process? I think making businesses out of it is probably the most sustainable way. By the way I am John Karanja Founder of Whive.com and we too are offering a SMS based cloud service for storing mobile contacts across web and mobile platforms. This is my first post on skunkworks and I hope to interact with you guys in the future. Best, John On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 12:37 PM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>wrote:
Thank you Paul, Lucy and Aki for responding to issues raised by listers, i do hope we will all be available for the Face to Face meeting to cement our networks and look at how we can assist our governmnet since we are part and parcel of, feel free to continue contributing to the debate.
Best Regards
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 8:29 AM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
@Paul Kukubo, thanks for the input. Some of us very aware of the cloud opportunities and applications. Whether we take virtualization of data storage to creating terminal services, these environments exist. Whether SME or startups, they need cost cutting and affordable ways to maintain ICT continuity without breaking the bank.
You bring a key point about Govt being the driver of data storage and management, yet there is a big disconnect between the private sector such as ISPs, Telcos, Developers and Govt. At this infant stage of clouding, in whatever context we may look at, Govt support is key as a catalyst of what cloud services could become. I strongly insist that all Govt projects should be kept within the borders and systems of KE. We need this ownership and aslo the ability to use the existing infrastructure. Govt needs to open up the world class data centre for private/public use and also its infrastructure like fiber so that anyone planning a system or such can know what the options are, besides other networks and services. There is no need to put up many data centres, if we already core ones in place.
As govt representative, you also need to comeup with a development register that will notify Kenyans of planned projects and those interested can have ample planning and resource time to engage in such projects.
Rgds.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afriregister.bi, www.afriregister.com ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
Thank you Mich for the insightfull response coming at a time when we are looking forwad to the open data initiative at the end of this week, John welcome on board the thread is still open feel free to comment On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 12:56 PM, Maux <mauxdatabase@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Guys, My understanding of cloud computing is basically a shared/distributed service that allows for the massive storage of data. Through application interfaces a developer/entrepreneur can access this data and make a business out of it and most importantly scale. Using Google as an example it may not be able develop every niche product out there so it opens up its platform to developers either through android or chrome and plans to take a cut through its payment system google wallet. In the case of Kenya, Government owns/holds most of the data available and hence should lead the way in creating a Shared services and Cloud computing policy. That is why the Open Data Initiative is an idea whose time has come. What is the most efficient way of managing this process? I think making businesses out of it is probably the most sustainable way. By the way I am John Karanja Founder of Whive.com and we too are offering a SMS based cloud service for storing mobile contacts across web and mobile platforms. This is my first post on skunkworks and I hope to interact with you guys in the future. Best, John
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 12:37 PM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:
Thank you Paul, Lucy and Aki for responding to issues raised by listers, i do hope we will all be available for the Face to Face meeting to cement our networks and look at how we can assist our governmnet since we are part and parcel of, feel free to continue contributing to the debate.
Best Regards
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 8:29 AM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
@Paul Kukubo, thanks for the input. Some of us very aware of the cloud opportunities and applications. Whether we take virtualization of data storage to creating terminal services, these environments exist. Whether SME or startups, they need cost cutting and affordable ways to maintain ICT continuity without breaking the bank.
You bring a key point about Govt being the driver of data storage and management, yet there is a big disconnect between the private sector such as ISPs, Telcos, Developers and Govt. At this infant stage of clouding, in whatever context we may look at, Govt support is key as a catalyst of what cloud services could become. I strongly insist that all Govt projects should be kept within the borders and systems of KE. We need this ownership and aslo the ability to use the existing infrastructure. Govt needs to open up the world class data centre for private/public use and also its infrastructure like fiber so that anyone planning a system or such can know what the options are, besides other networks and services. There is no need to put up many data centres, if we already core ones in place.
As govt representative, you also need to comeup with a development register that will notify Kenyans of planned projects and those interested can have ample planning and resource time to engage in such projects.
Rgds.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afriregister.bi, www.afriregister.com ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afriregister.bi, www.afriregister.com ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno
So to add on to Michuki's post earlier, As a country, someone somewhere should be looking at the strategy (short,medium and long term) for Kenya as a regional ICT hub and where data centers and cloud services come in. They should be tying that into the infrastructure and the technical know how. Carrier specific Data centers will take care of most of the demand from multinationals. What I have concern for is how the average Kenyan takes advantage of this computing capacity, There is an awareness 'hole' that might end up just creating excess unnused capacity (this might not necessarily affect a carrier neutral DC). It should be so easy to host 'stuff', stream 'stuff', share 'stuff' with my friends and neighbors. Start small, install IP camera's in your estate, share the feed, get excited; when your storage needs surpass what you have, go cloud or whatever. My point here being that the issue is not so much cloud as how to use the cloud computing resources - for most people. Alot of people say cloud and expect everyone to understand what they mean. This discussion for me brings out other issues from the woods: - Net neutrality - Local content - and where it is hosted. - Unbundled local loops - Im so happy to see Zuku's fiber outside my door, but that ties me to Zuku, imagine if the city council owned that fiber and I could choose my provider based on services I need. - At the counties I think the local governement/municipal has a huge opportunity to take control of how fiber connectivity gets to the homes and actually make money off it. Maybe we should have a model 'connected county'. In the meantime, we'll trudge on, the way I see it, this road ends at a happy place. I also expect a major disruption soon. JGitau On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 1:15 PM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:
Thank you Mich for the insightfull response coming at a time when we are looking forwad to the open data initiative at the end of this week, John welcome on board the thread is still open feel free to comment
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 12:56 PM, Maux <mauxdatabase@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Guys, My understanding of cloud computing is basically a shared/distributed service that allows for the massive storage of data. Through application interfaces a developer/entrepreneur can access this data and make a business out of it and most importantly scale. Using Google as an example it may not be able develop every niche product out there so it opens up its platform to developers either through android or chrome and plans to take a cut through its payment system google wallet. In the case of Kenya, Government owns/holds most of the data available and hence should lead the way in creating a Shared services and Cloud computing policy. That is why the Open Data Initiative is an idea whose time has come. What is the most efficient way of managing this process? I think making businesses out of it is probably the most sustainable way. By the way I am John Karanja Founder of Whive.com and we too are offering a SMS based cloud service for storing mobile contacts across web and mobile platforms. This is my first post on skunkworks and I hope to interact with you guys in the future. Best, John
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 12:37 PM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:
Thank you Paul, Lucy and Aki for responding to issues raised by listers, i do hope we will all be available for the Face to Face meeting to cement our networks and look at how we can assist our governmnet since we are part and parcel of, feel free to continue contributing to the debate.
Best Regards
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 8:29 AM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
@Paul Kukubo, thanks for the input. Some of us very aware of the cloud opportunities and applications. Whether we take virtualization of data storage to creating terminal services, these environments exist. Whether SME or startups, they need cost cutting and affordable ways to maintain ICT continuity without breaking the bank.
You bring a key point about Govt being the driver of data storage and management, yet there is a big disconnect between the private sector such as ISPs, Telcos, Developers and Govt. At this infant stage of clouding, in whatever context we may look at, Govt support is key as a catalyst of what cloud services could become. I strongly insist that all Govt projects should be kept within the borders and systems of KE. We need this ownership and aslo the ability to use the existing infrastructure. Govt needs to open up the world class data centre for private/public use and also its infrastructure like fiber so that anyone planning a system or such can know what the options are, besides other networks and services. There is no need to put up many data centres, if we already core ones in place.
As govt representative, you also need to comeup with a development register that will notify Kenyans of planned projects and those interested can have ample planning and resource time to engage in such projects.
Rgds.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afriregister.bi, www.afriregister.com ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afriregister.bi, www.afriregister.com ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- **Gitau
Well said John Gitau, you have introduced interesting perspectives such as Net Neutrality which has been a topic of discussion for two consecutive years in the Internet Governance Forum and is likely to feature this year. It advocates for all traffic on the Internet to be treated equally, i hope Mich and other peering experts can comment on this, meanwhile i am ropping in Vladimir Radunovic a key Net neutrality crusader to comment on why net neutrality is important for developing economies. On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 1:54 PM, John Gitau <jgitau@gmail.com> wrote:
So to add on to Michuki's post earlier, As a country, someone somewhere should be looking at the strategy (short,medium and long term) for Kenya as a regional ICT hub and where data centers and cloud services come in. They should be tying that into the infrastructure and the technical know how. Carrier specific Data centers will take care of most of the demand from multinationals.
What I have concern for is how the average Kenyan takes advantage of this computing capacity, There is an awareness 'hole' that might end up just creating excess unnused capacity (this might not necessarily affect a carrier neutral DC). It should be so easy to host 'stuff', stream 'stuff', share 'stuff' with my friends and neighbors. Start small, install IP camera's in your estate, share the feed, get excited; when your storage needs surpass what you have, go cloud or whatever. My point here being that the issue is not so much cloud as how to use the cloud computing resources - for most people. Alot of people say cloud and expect everyone to understand what they mean.
This discussion for me brings out other issues from the woods: - Net neutrality - Local content - and where it is hosted. - Unbundled local loops - Im so happy to see Zuku's fiber outside my door, but that ties me to Zuku, imagine if the city council owned that fiber and I could choose my provider based on services I need. - At the counties I think the local governement/municipal has a huge opportunity to take control of how fiber connectivity gets to the homes and actually make money off it. Maybe we should have a model 'connected county'.
In the meantime, we'll trudge on, the way I see it, this road ends at a happy place. I also expect a major disruption soon.
JGitau
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 1:15 PM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:
Thank you Mich for the insightfull response coming at a time when we are looking forwad to the open data initiative at the end of this week, John welcome on board the thread is still open feel free to comment
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 12:56 PM, Maux <mauxdatabase@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Guys, My understanding of cloud computing is basically a shared/distributed service that allows for the massive storage of data. Through application interfaces a developer/entrepreneur can access this data and make a business out of it and most importantly scale. Using Google as an example it may not be able develop every niche product out there so it opens up its platform to developers either through android or chrome and plans to take a cut through its payment system google wallet. In the case of Kenya, Government owns/holds most of the data available and hence should lead the way in creating a Shared services and Cloud computing policy. That is why the Open Data Initiative is an idea whose time has come. What is the most efficient way of managing this process? I think making businesses out of it is probably the most sustainable way. By the way I am John Karanja Founder of Whive.com and we too are offering a SMS based cloud service for storing mobile contacts across web and mobile platforms. This is my first post on skunkworks and I hope to interact with you guys in the future. Best, John
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 12:37 PM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:
Thank you Paul, Lucy and Aki for responding to issues raised by listers, i do hope we will all be available for the Face to Face meeting to cement our networks and look at how we can assist our governmnet since we are part and parcel of, feel free to continue contributing to the debate.
Best Regards
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 8:29 AM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
@Paul Kukubo, thanks for the input. Some of us very aware of the cloud opportunities and applications. Whether we take virtualization of data storage to creating terminal services, these environments exist. Whether SME or startups, they need cost cutting and affordable ways to maintain ICT continuity without breaking the bank.
You bring a key point about Govt being the driver of data storage and management, yet there is a big disconnect between the private sector such as ISPs, Telcos, Developers and Govt. At this infant stage of clouding, in whatever context we may look at, Govt support is key as a catalyst of what cloud services could become. I strongly insist that all Govt projects should be kept within the borders and systems of KE. We need this ownership and aslo the ability to use the existing infrastructure. Govt needs to open up the world class data centre for private/public use and also its infrastructure like fiber so that anyone planning a system or such can know what the options are, besides other networks and services. There is no need to put up many data centres, if we already core ones in place.
As govt representative, you also need to comeup with a development register that will notify Kenyans of planned projects and those interested can have ample planning and resource time to engage in such projects.
Rgds.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afriregister.bi, www.afriregister.com ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afriregister.bi, www.afriregister.com ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- **Gitau _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afriregister.bi, www.afriregister.com ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno
I want to carry on the cloud discussion alittle bit more because i have a dream similar to Paul's. Call it selfish or patriotic but the day we shall have a place in Kenya similar to London Docklands/Canary Wharf area in London. If you have been there you know what i mean. Then i will say "tumejaribu". For now "tunajaribu". To start with i want break down the could discussions to their simplicity. I think calling it cloud obscures the challenges and opportunities. The cloud consists of three components 1) Infrastructure 2) Software application 3) Technical expertise. I will briefly mention components 2 & 3 because these are the easiest and they have been spoken about by others in previous posts. We have a average to decent number of skill sets in the community to build and run the facilities. The software is there open-source or commercial. However, when it comes to infrastructure this is different. The amount of investments to be made in building acceptable classified facilities (read data centers) is probably for those with deep pockets and they are but a afew. In 2006, i was in a IXP forum in Europe where they were talking about how carrier neutral Datacenter facilities were running out. As a result, some of the Carrier Neutral DC developers like Equinix and Telecity started looking East-wards (read Asia) for build outs. Virtualization was in itself a revolutionary reprieve for those who depend on leasing collocation space at a time when the colo pricing was going up. Fast forward to 2010-2011. The demand for "Carrier Neutral" Data centers has not eased and the developers have started going south (Latin America, Africa and Australia). Telecity now has facilities in Capetown and J'burg (i wonder why they missed Kenya on the way down). To the issue at hand. Cloud will only be realised if we have the infrastructure. That is "Carrier Neutral" facilities. At the moment there are only two "carrier neutral" locations in Kenya that i know of. the KIXP and the SEACOM Landing Station. Both this facilities are rather too small to be even considered as facilities but yet thats all we have in form of Carrier Neutral facilities. I think everyone that i know is now building a Data Center including GoK. But they are all carrier specific. I dont want to go into the details of which is better than the other - but its obvious that the reason why Europe, Asia, and the US are far ahead in this space was because of Carrier Neutral facilities. The following article may be of value on understanding the benefits of carrier neutral facilities. http://www.articlesbase.com/business-articles/the-benefits-of-using-carrier-... A simple analogy of the difference between the two types of Data Centers is an airport. Assume you went to JKIA and only KQ operates from there. The impact on convenience and cost is subjec to KQ. However at the moment JKIA is a hub because from there KQ has no monopoly over any destinations. It faces equal competition to most of its destinations and that makes JKIA what it is and as you can see on the local press we have to make it bigger to handle the growing capacities. So the bigger issue is what do we have to do to encourage or attract the building of Carrier Neutral facilities?. Well this where i will stop and hope that we can have a debate on what it takes to build such facilities in Kenya. However, before i stop - i will say one thing the GoK has done some great things in stirring up areas that are looked at skeptically like the TEAMs Cable, NOFBI, etc. Am not saying that they should go ahead and do the same - but am saying build the prototype and get the private sector screaming and running to beat the Govt. My 2 cents, Michuki. On 7/6/11 8:29 AM, aki wrote:
@Paul Kukubo, thanks for the input. Some of us very aware of the cloud opportunities and applications. Whether we take virtualization of data storage to creating terminal services, these environments exist. Whether SME or startups, they need cost cutting and affordable ways to maintain ICT continuity without breaking the bank.
You bring a key point about Govt being the driver of data storage and management, yet there is a big disconnect between the private sector such as ISPs, Telcos, Developers and Govt. At this infant stage of clouding, in whatever context we may look at, Govt support is key as a catalyst of what cloud services could become. I strongly insist that all Govt projects should be kept within the borders and systems of KE. We need this ownership and aslo the ability to use the existing infrastructure. Govt needs to open up the world class data centre for private/public use and also its infrastructure like fiber so that anyone planning a system or such can know what the options are, besides other networks and services. There is no need to put up many data centres, if we already core ones in place.
As govt representative, you also need to comeup with a development register that will notify Kenyans of planned projects and those interested can have ample planning and resource time to engage in such projects.
Rgds.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
@John, just to add to your email, how much have we done? I can tell you from my side I've spend at least 14 months each on projects over the years which would have been cloud based services. - My favourite was the one to beat all international voip services that all kenyans such as cybers etc love to buy from international vendors. I implemented an asterisk based system right here in Nairobi that I even tested whilst on a trip to visit friends in the UK, the voice clarity was that of of tiered services. I also tested with friends in mombasa, kisumu etc even had a voip handset connected directly to a safaricom broadband router. Funny that I could call a friend in mombasa just using a simple number like 041. Eventual idea was to combine a skype type of service with the gateway. The next plan was to talk to any telcos who would offer local competitve rates thus eliminating all those international voip vendors, but when I looked at the license model which made me a gateway operator and a license of Ksh 15million, I dropped the project. - Creating a photo developer services for studios. No more need to take the digital images physically to the studio for development, I even talked to a photostudio and we tested on a external setup for a shortwhile. Bandwidth constraints kicked in, and project dropped. However still a chance coming in the future. - I can list at least 3 other serious projects including one that I was a few days away from going online about 1.5years ago, which was video. The gateway was set until I ran into an issue about encoder usage rights, I dropped this until I comeup with my own system. Everywhere I look, the cloud is still calling. Now that I've banned using any full systems until I can develop mine, I find it more rewarding that somewhere in this whole circle of technology I may hold the key to the next thing that will entirely change our lives. If only others would see how much we are capable of doing, you don't even bother to look at what the international competition is. Rgds.
participants (7)
-
aki -
Barrack Otieno -
John Gitau -
Maux -
Michuki Mwangi -
Michuki Mwangi -
Phares Kariuki