Re: [Skunkworks] How many more core Kenyan systems and processes will the Govt hand over to external big name partners?
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 12:54 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Joe,
Thank you for responding.
I wish I had more to share but only have more questions than answers. How is Google involved with the electronic management and digitization of the Kenya Gazette?
The basic queries are as follows:
- What procedure was used by the Kenyan Govt & especially KICTB or Min of Information to declare the Kenya Gazette as a digitization project?
- Were the specifics of the project publicly announced, and if so where?
- What was the criteria followed to select Google as the final project developer and solution provider?
- There is a World Bank issue involved in this project, did the Govt act alone on such matters with Google?
Rgds.
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 12:25 PM, Joseph Mucheru <jmucheru@google.com>wrote:
Hi Aki?
I am interested in more details about this. Which deals are being done behind closed doors and how is this taking away from creative Kenyans?
Thanks
Joe
-- The EL_Diablo is a metaphor...
@aki, You are quite like my brothers down here at the coast whose rallying cries are haki yetu, kunyanyaswa, mabepari and mabwenyenye.. All hot air really. So my question: Is there any product you have or know of that could serve these needs overtaken by foreigners that has been unjustly denied the opportunity to be deployed? If not then instead of sensational innuendo i suggest you get to work make PCBs, Computers, Their Operating systems, IDEs all in Kenya and then develop truly Kenyan products. Dont keep us waiting for pipedreams just because its Kenyan. On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 12:58 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 12:54 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Joe,
Thank you for responding.
I wish I had more to share but only have more questions than answers. How is Google involved with the electronic management and digitization of the Kenya Gazette?
The basic queries are as follows:
- What procedure was used by the Kenyan Govt & especially KICTB or Min of Information to declare the Kenya Gazette as a digitization project?
- Were the specifics of the project publicly announced, and if so where?
- What was the criteria followed to select Google as the final project developer and solution provider?
- There is a World Bank issue involved in this project, did the Govt act alone on such matters with Google?
Rgds.
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 12:25 PM, Joseph Mucheru <jmucheru@google.com>wrote:
Hi Aki?
I am interested in more details about this. Which deals are being done behind closed doors and how is this taking away from creative Kenyans?
Thanks
Joe
-- The EL_Diablo is a metaphor...
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- *“The twentieth century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: the growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy”* ~ Alex Carey ~ Tel No: 0x2af23696
@Brainiac, :-) I know you are not one of the copy/pasters, so what would have been your answer if you were given the chance to build such a project?. Whether a local product or service exists or not, that should have been established by the awarding authority of experts, not me. However, we need the answers so as to understand why local sectors were left out of the process, if at all they were. *In the meantime, 10 years from now and possibly when the US markets have gone to the lowest points and Google thinks of selling out, what happens to the Kenyan online data on Google servers? Does the buyer in say China inherit it and charge Kenyans a small amount to access it?! What are the legal obligations and consequences on such matters? * Rgds. On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 1:12 PM, [ Brainiac ] <arebacollins@gmail.com> wrote:
@aki,
You are quite like my brothers down here at the coast whose rallying cries are haki yetu, kunyanyaswa, mabepari and mabwenyenye.. All hot air really. So my question: Is there any product you have or know of that could serve these needs overtaken by foreigners that has been unjustly denied the opportunity to be deployed? If not then instead of sensational innuendo i suggest you get to work make PCBs, Computers, Their Operating systems, IDEs all in Kenya and then develop truly Kenyan products.
Dont keep us waiting for pipedreams just because its Kenyan.
Thats where you get it all wrong my brother, You do not stop breathing just because you can contract flu. Dont Get me wrong, there is those of us busy talking about it in this list, then there is those busy working with the tools in their hands to offer solutions. What i dont get (and dont bother, ill never understand the rationale) is the need to Kenyanize everything yet the tools we would use are not Kenyan. Do you notice the domain extension for your email address dude? On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 1:37 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
@Brainiac, :-)
I know you are not one of the copy/pasters, so what would have been your answer if you were given the chance to build such a project?.
Whether a local product or service exists or not, that should have been established by the awarding authority of experts, not me. However, we need the answers so as to understand why local sectors were left out of the process, if at all they were.
*In the meantime, 10 years from now and possibly when the US markets have gone to the lowest points and Google thinks of selling out, what happens to the Kenyan online data on Google servers? Does the buyer in say China inherit it and charge Kenyans a small amount to access it?! What are the legal obligations and consequences on such matters? *
Rgds.
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 1:12 PM, [ Brainiac ] <arebacollins@gmail.com>wrote:
@aki,
You are quite like my brothers down here at the coast whose rallying cries are haki yetu, kunyanyaswa, mabepari and mabwenyenye.. All hot air really. So my question: Is there any product you have or know of that could serve these needs overtaken by foreigners that has been unjustly denied the opportunity to be deployed? If not then instead of sensational innuendo i suggest you get to work make PCBs, Computers, Their Operating systems, IDEs all in Kenya and then develop truly Kenyan products.
Dont keep us waiting for pipedreams just because its Kenyan.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- *“The twentieth century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: the growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy”* ~ Alex Carey ~ Tel No: 0x2af23696
I'm not getting this. We moved from the Gov't privatizing projects with international subsidiaries to not being able to Kenyanize? i agree with one thing that @Aki said. there's still no transparency. sudden tweets or mentions online from Gov't officials doesn't mean the projects had been mentioned. I'm confident enough to state that there's at least two or three individuals on-list whom i know don't miss these article announcements. Chances are, these are completed deals and then as usual announced to jolt the public on progress. but again @Aki, i doubt it would come to the whole privatization of content to that degree. There would be upheavals and revolutions to fight back i guess but if you are right, can we not look at localizing a data centre? do we have these capabilities? can the Gov't provide these solutions? actually.. why can't the gov't provide such solutions? where are they in this little discussion we're having? any Gov't rep's here who can answer or direct us to the right channel? *W.* ps. it's been a while @Brainiac and @Aki. What've i missed ?? :D On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 1:45 PM, [ Brainiac ] <arebacollins@gmail.com> wrote:
Thats where you get it all wrong my brother, You do not stop breathing just because you can contract flu. Dont Get me wrong, there is those of us busy talking about it in this list, then there is those busy working with the tools in their hands to offer solutions.
What i dont get (and dont bother, ill never understand the rationale) is the need to Kenyanize everything yet the tools we would use are not Kenyan. Do you notice the domain extension for your email address dude?
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 1:37 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
@Brainiac, :-)
I know you are not one of the copy/pasters, so what would have been your answer if you were given the chance to build such a project?.
Whether a local product or service exists or not, that should have been established by the awarding authority of experts, not me. However, we need the answers so as to understand why local sectors were left out of the process, if at all they were.
*In the meantime, 10 years from now and possibly when the US markets have gone to the lowest points and Google thinks of selling out, what happens to the Kenyan online data on Google servers? Does the buyer in say China inherit it and charge Kenyans a small amount to access it?! What are the legal obligations and consequences on such matters? *
Rgds.
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 1:12 PM, [ Brainiac ] <arebacollins@gmail.com>wrote:
@aki,
You are quite like my brothers down here at the coast whose rallying cries are haki yetu, kunyanyaswa, mabepari and mabwenyenye.. All hot air really. So my question: Is there any product you have or know of that could serve these needs overtaken by foreigners that has been unjustly denied the opportunity to be deployed? If not then instead of sensational innuendo i suggest you get to work make PCBs, Computers, Their Operating systems, IDEs all in Kenya and then develop truly Kenyan products.
Dont keep us waiting for pipedreams just because its Kenyan.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- *“The twentieth century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: the growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy”*
~ Alex Carey ~
Tel No: 0x2af23696
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. For the dark things cannot stand the light.
Hey @Watchman, glad to see you are back! :-) On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 1:54 PM, Watchman <skunkingrahim@gmail.com> wrote:
ps. it's been a while @Brainiac and @Aki. What've i missed ?? :D
@Aki good to be back. you good? nice to see you still shaking things around :D On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 1:58 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey @Watchman, glad to see you are back! :-)
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 1:54 PM, Watchman <skunkingrahim@gmail.com> wrote:
ps. it's been a while @Brainiac and @Aki. What've i missed ?? :D
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. For the dark things cannot stand the light.
@Brianiac, inline below: On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 1:45 PM, [ Brainiac ] <arebacollins@gmail.com> wrote:
Thats where you get it all wrong my brother, You do not stop breathing just because you can contract flu. Dont Get me wrong, there is those of us busy talking about it in this list, then there is those busy working with the tools in their hands to offer solutions.
Good for them. :-) Those who are busy selling while we are busy creating an important awareness, in the long term it will all tie together.
What i dont get (and dont bother, ill never understand the rationale) is the need to Kenyanize everything yet the tools we would use are not Kenyan. Do you notice the domain extension for your email address dude?
Nice try, but your argument is invalid like a bottomless pit. :-)))) How low level we can go to localise is dependent on us, unfortunately there is a very small % that thinks along these lines so we are stuck with trying to balance how low levels should be.
@AKI Where then, does the localizing road come to a close? Do we refuse to buy external servers and insist on manufacturing our own PC's? Do we do the same for the cell phone? We have to look at the amount of time it will cost us to develop the local apps and the total opportunity cost... Here is a suggestion, there is a tonne of .go.ke data to be digitized e.g. Police abstracts, OB's etc.. Why not start there? On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 1:56 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
@Brianiac, inline below:
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 1:45 PM, [ Brainiac ] <arebacollins@gmail.com>wrote:
Thats where you get it all wrong my brother, You do not stop breathing just because you can contract flu. Dont Get me wrong, there is those of us busy talking about it in this list, then there is those busy working with the tools in their hands to offer solutions.
Good for them. :-) Those who are busy selling while we are busy creating an important awareness, in the long term it will all tie together.
What i dont get (and dont bother, ill never understand the rationale) is the need to Kenyanize everything yet the tools we would use are not Kenyan. Do you notice the domain extension for your email address dude?
Nice try, but your argument is invalid like a bottomless pit. :-)))) How low level we can go to localise is dependent on us, unfortunately there is a very small % that thinks along these lines so we are stuck with trying to balance how low levels should be.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- With Regards, Phares Kariuki | T: +254 720 406 093 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares | B: http://www.kaboro.com/ |
Didn't want anything to mention regarding where you work. wanted to link on In. :D but just a note on your first mail. Jared. I don't think saying " The same noise Aki is making was the same noise companies like Kirinyaga construction and the other local companies used to make" is well.. cool. it's simply a matter of do you know what Aki does? do you know who he is? for all we know, he's simply trying to steer our minds in the right direction. im glad you're objective about the whole thing. I don't think we lack capacity. Or skill for that matter. I think we're just lazy. But that's just my take. *W* On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 2:06 PM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
@AKI
Where then, does the localizing road come to a close? Do we refuse to buy external servers and insist on manufacturing our own PC's? Do we do the same for the cell phone? We have to look at the amount of time it will cost us to develop the local apps and the total opportunity cost...
Here is a suggestion, there is a tonne of .go.ke data to be digitized e.g. Police abstracts, OB's etc.. Why not start there?
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 1:56 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
@Brianiac, inline below:
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 1:45 PM, [ Brainiac ] <arebacollins@gmail.com>wrote:
Thats where you get it all wrong my brother, You do not stop breathing just because you can contract flu. Dont Get me wrong, there is those of us busy talking about it in this list, then there is those busy working with the tools in their hands to offer solutions.
Good for them. :-) Those who are busy selling while we are busy creating an important awareness, in the long term it will all tie together.
What i dont get (and dont bother, ill never understand the rationale) is the need to Kenyanize everything yet the tools we would use are not Kenyan. Do you notice the domain extension for your email address dude?
Nice try, but your argument is invalid like a bottomless pit. :-)))) How low level we can go to localise is dependent on us, unfortunately there is a very small % that thinks along these lines so we are stuck with trying to balance how low levels should be.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- With Regards,
Phares Kariuki
| T: +254 720 406 093 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares | B: http://www.kaboro.com/ |
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. For the dark things cannot stand the light.
@Guys, lets give it a rest, I'm not going to be on this forum much longer than the @Barracks thread discussion so no need for stooping to get personal. Everyone has their own opinions and ways to do things, I think I put this thread as a list to see how many more projects go to external big partners in technology. I'm not the authority nor representation of how much localization we can or should do, that is a matter already decided by generations of govt polices and practises, and viewed as normal by citizens. Whether as an end user of thika road or as a civil or road engineer, or whether an engineer as an end user, one has to make the judgement on what level things matters. The rest, is history. Rgds, and have a nice day. :-)
It might be that most announcements (and/or requests) are posted in the local dailies (paper editions). I am not personally aware (it might be my ignorance) of the online equivalent of these announcements. So, it would be up to you to be chonjo when stuff is on digger or nation classifieds. Then, it would be useful to complain when awarding is not transparent or fair. : 2cents On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 2:42 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
@Guys, lets give it a rest, I'm not going to be on this forum much longer than the @Barracks thread discussion so no need for stooping to get personal. Everyone has their own opinions and ways to do things, I think I put this thread as a list to see how many more projects go to external big partners in technology.
I'm not the authority nor representation of how much localization we can or should do, that is a matter already decided by generations of govt polices and practises, and viewed as normal by citizens. Whether as an end user of thika road or as a civil or road engineer, or whether an engineer as an end user, one has to make the judgement on what level things matters. The rest, is history.
Rgds, and have a nice day. :-)
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@Murithi, thanks for sharing. :-) I'd like to clarify that while am very very much aware of the cloud and have done various test projects on it, I've not had an interest to participate in it for the last 18 months or so as most of my off-time work is spent on learning and studying development. I may in the future do something different, but that is still a few years away, on online games/video on demand etc with silverlight is still very much an interest. If it was a matter of say putting up say MS Exchange or Office versions, I could have done that a long time ago but am on a different road. On a road where I now see how the developing Govts play both sides of the coin, and to what levels. And therefore as an interest and to also understand the processes, I raise the questions. The end results affect all of us in one way or another, now or later. We also need to ensure that Kenyan BPOs, Telcos, ISPs and Data Centre operators were given a similar chance. Am not interested nor have the time for any digitization projects nor replacing Cisco with FreeBSD though I know what capabilities FreeBSD brings. Rgds. :-) On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 4:50 PM, One Murithi <o0murithi@gmail.com> wrote:
It might be that most announcements (and/or requests) are posted in the local dailies (paper editions). I am not personally aware (it might be my ignorance) of the online equivalent of these announcements.
So, it would be up to you to be chonjo when stuff is on digger or nation classifieds. Then, it would be useful to complain when awarding is not transparent or fair.
: 2cents
Sorry to backtrack on this but @murithi, why would the govt use digger classifieds or the nation / other paper equivalents to post their requirements? W. On Wednesday, July 6, 2011, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
@Murithi, thanks for sharing. :-)
I'd like to clarify that while am very very much aware of the cloud and have done various test projects on it, I've not had an interest to participate in it for the last 18 months or so as most of my off-time work is spent on learning and studying development. I may in the future do something different, but that is still a few years away, on online games/video on demand etc with silverlight is still very much an interest. If it was a matter of say putting up say MS Exchange or Office versions, I could have done that a long time ago but am on a different road. On a road where I now see how the developing Govts play both sides of the coin, and to what levels.
And therefore as an interest and to also understand the processes, I raise the questions. The end results affect all of us in one way or another, now or later. We also need to ensure that Kenyan BPOs, Telcos, ISPs and Data Centre operators were given a similar chance. Am not interested nor have the time for any digitization projects nor replacing Cisco with FreeBSD though I know what capabilities FreeBSD brings.
Rgds. :-)
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 4:50 PM, One Murithi <o0murithi@gmail.com> wrote: It might be that most announcements (and/or requests) are posted in the local dailies (paper editions). I am not personally aware (it might be my ignorance) of the online equivalent of these announcements.
So, it would be up to you to be chonjo when stuff is on digger or nation classifieds. Then, it would be useful to complain when awarding is not transparent or fair.
: 2cents
-- ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. For the dark things cannot stand the light.
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 5:53 PM, Watchman <skunkingrahim@gmail.com> wrote:
Sorry to backtrack on this but @murithi, why would the govt use digger classifieds or the nation / other paper equivalents to post their requirements?
Why not? I believe I have seen a number (though the reasons for using might be historical) That said, I just came across this portal (though the numbers are pretty low): www.tenders.go.ke
W.
On Wednesday, July 6, 2011, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
@Murithi, thanks for sharing. :-)
I'd like to clarify that while am very very much aware of the cloud and have done various test projects on it, I've not had an interest to participate in it for the last 18 months or so as most of my off-time work is spent on learning and studying development. I may in the future do something different, but that is still a few years away, on online games/video on demand etc with silverlight is still very much an interest. If it was a matter of say putting up say MS Exchange or Office versions, I could have done that a long time ago but am on a different road. On a road where I now see how the developing Govts play both sides of the coin, and to what levels.
And therefore as an interest and to also understand the processes, I raise the questions. The end results affect all of us in one way or another, now or later. We also need to ensure that Kenyan BPOs, Telcos, ISPs and Data Centre operators were given a similar chance. Am not interested nor have the time for any digitization projects nor replacing Cisco with FreeBSD though I know what capabilities FreeBSD brings.
Rgds. :-)
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 4:50 PM, One Murithi <o0murithi@gmail.com> wrote: It might be that most announcements (and/or requests) are posted in the local dailies (paper editions). I am not personally aware (it might be my ignorance) of the online equivalent of these announcements.
So, it would be up to you to be chonjo when stuff is on digger or nation classifieds. Then, it would be useful to complain when awarding is not transparent or fair.
: 2cents
-- ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. For the dark things cannot stand the light. _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
If you export crude oil to america then one day [read mood swing] you decide not to, trust the winds that america and all its might will come looking for you simply because you are a threat to their national security [oil, food, finance etc are in the "security" bracket under american law], if your company is in any way being funded by the americans trust you will have to buy american products all the way assuming none is locally available. Well the crossing point is, if the government decided to move the american way to digitize government records then i think the question should not be more of kenyanizing rather ownership because once these files move from our hands to their hands then who knows if a reason or the other american courts decide to order the locking out of kenyan access of the same records, what next? If Google was to digitize but have the servers located and managed kenyan then i dont think it would generate as much a discussion. By the way we are not so loved as kenyans due to most if not our entire track record of doing nothing. Devani for instance will not be extradited despite the crimes he committed here as we have the worst courts in africa if not the world, bear in mind this is coming from the british [they want okemo n gichuru for crimes committed in uk] how much does this go into who we are and what we think we are? I need not go any further....
Am hesitant to comment on Aki-post coz they wind n wind n whine....anyway..there is nothing wrong with proven companies with proven solution working with the government to create efficiency. If google/cisco/ibm are creating a solution that is going to better the lives of 40Million kenyans then to hell with 12 creative developers. The same noise Aki is making was the same noise companies like Kirinyaga construction and the other local companies used to make when road contracts were being dished to Chinese firms. Thika road speaks for itself and now majority of these companies are actually collaborating with the chinese for technology n knowledge transfer. I liked the mantra Domodomo...can someone revive it or we have to wait till 2011 Regards Jared Koyier On 6 July 2011 13:45, [ Brainiac ] <arebacollins@gmail.com> wrote:
Thats where you get it all wrong my brother, You do not stop breathing just because you can contract flu. Dont Get me wrong, there is those of us busy talking about it in this list, then there is those busy working with the tools in their hands to offer solutions.
What i dont get (and dont bother, ill never understand the rationale) is the need to Kenyanize everything yet the tools we would use are not Kenyan. Do you notice the domain extension for your email address dude?
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 1:37 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
@Brainiac, :-)
I know you are not one of the copy/pasters, so what would have been your answer if you were given the chance to build such a project?.
Whether a local product or service exists or not, that should have been established by the awarding authority of experts, not me. However, we need the answers so as to understand why local sectors were left out of the process, if at all they were.
*In the meantime, 10 years from now and possibly when the US markets have gone to the lowest points and Google thinks of selling out, what happens to the Kenyan online data on Google servers? Does the buyer in say China inherit it and charge Kenyans a small amount to access it?! What are the legal obligations and consequences on such matters? *
Rgds.
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 1:12 PM, [ Brainiac ] <arebacollins@gmail.com>wrote:
@aki,
You are quite like my brothers down here at the coast whose rallying cries are haki yetu, kunyanyaswa, mabepari and mabwenyenye.. All hot air really. So my question: Is there any product you have or know of that could serve these needs overtaken by foreigners that has been unjustly denied the opportunity to be deployed? If not then instead of sensational innuendo i suggest you get to work make PCBs, Computers, Their Operating systems, IDEs all in Kenya and then develop truly Kenyan products.
Dont keep us waiting for pipedreams just because its Kenyan.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- *“The twentieth century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: the growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy”*
~ Alex Carey ~
Tel No: 0x2af23696
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
@Jared. way to go with being supportive of the local energy. is this you? btw. ICT Officer * Centum Investment Company Limited<http://ke.linkedin.com/company/centum-investment-company-limited?trk=ppro_cprof> * On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 2:03 PM, Jared Koyier <jaredkoyier@gmail.com> wrote:
Am hesitant to comment on Aki-post coz they wind n wind n whine....anyway..there is nothing wrong with proven companies with proven solution working with the government to create efficiency.
If google/cisco/ibm are creating a solution that is going to better the lives of 40Million kenyans then to hell with 12 creative developers.
The same noise Aki is making was the same noise companies like Kirinyaga construction and the other local companies used to make when road contracts were being dished to Chinese firms. Thika road speaks for itself and now majority of these companies are actually collaborating with the chinese for technology n knowledge transfer.
I liked the mantra Domodomo...can someone revive it or we have to wait till 2011
Regards Jared Koyier
On 6 July 2011 13:45, [ Brainiac ] <arebacollins@gmail.com> wrote:
Thats where you get it all wrong my brother, You do not stop breathing just because you can contract flu. Dont Get me wrong, there is those of us busy talking about it in this list, then there is those busy working with the tools in their hands to offer solutions.
What i dont get (and dont bother, ill never understand the rationale) is the need to Kenyanize everything yet the tools we would use are not Kenyan. Do you notice the domain extension for your email address dude?
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 1:37 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
@Brainiac, :-)
I know you are not one of the copy/pasters, so what would have been your answer if you were given the chance to build such a project?.
Whether a local product or service exists or not, that should have been established by the awarding authority of experts, not me. However, we need the answers so as to understand why local sectors were left out of the process, if at all they were.
*In the meantime, 10 years from now and possibly when the US markets have gone to the lowest points and Google thinks of selling out, what happens to the Kenyan online data on Google servers? Does the buyer in say China inherit it and charge Kenyans a small amount to access it?! What are the legal obligations and consequences on such matters? *
Rgds.
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 1:12 PM, [ Brainiac ] <arebacollins@gmail.com>wrote:
@aki,
You are quite like my brothers down here at the coast whose rallying cries are haki yetu, kunyanyaswa, mabepari and mabwenyenye.. All hot air really. So my question: Is there any product you have or know of that could serve these needs overtaken by foreigners that has been unjustly denied the opportunity to be deployed? If not then instead of sensational innuendo i suggest you get to work make PCBs, Computers, Their Operating systems, IDEs all in Kenya and then develop truly Kenyan products.
Dont keep us waiting for pipedreams just because its Kenyan.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- *“The twentieth century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: the growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy”*
~ Alex Carey ~
Tel No: 0x2af23696
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. For the dark things cannot stand the light.
@Watchman The opinion I express on Skunkworks are solely personal opinion and have nothing to do with where I work and what I do there. My point is that we spend so much time yapping about multinationals taking our share of the pie when clearly we lack capacity. We should instead see ways of working in tandem with them to learn and sharpen our skills. So now you guys want to produce your own version of Cisco Routers, IBM servers and Google Apps? Regards Jared Koyier On 6 July 2011 14:07, Watchman <skunkingrahim@gmail.com> wrote:
@Jared.
way to go with being supportive of the local energy.
is this you? btw. ICT Officer * Centum Investment Company Limited<http://ke.linkedin.com/company/centum-investment-company-limited?trk=ppro_cprof> *
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 2:03 PM, Jared Koyier <jaredkoyier@gmail.com>wrote:
Am hesitant to comment on Aki-post coz they wind n wind n whine....anyway..there is nothing wrong with proven companies with proven solution working with the government to create efficiency.
If google/cisco/ibm are creating a solution that is going to better the lives of 40Million kenyans then to hell with 12 creative developers.
The same noise Aki is making was the same noise companies like Kirinyaga construction and the other local companies used to make when road contracts were being dished to Chinese firms. Thika road speaks for itself and now majority of these companies are actually collaborating with the chinese for technology n knowledge transfer.
I liked the mantra Domodomo...can someone revive it or we have to wait till 2011
Regards Jared Koyier
On 6 July 2011 13:45, [ Brainiac ] <arebacollins@gmail.com> wrote:
Thats where you get it all wrong my brother, You do not stop breathing just because you can contract flu. Dont Get me wrong, there is those of us busy talking about it in this list, then there is those busy working with the tools in their hands to offer solutions.
What i dont get (and dont bother, ill never understand the rationale) is the need to Kenyanize everything yet the tools we would use are not Kenyan. Do you notice the domain extension for your email address dude?
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 1:37 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
@Brainiac, :-)
I know you are not one of the copy/pasters, so what would have been your answer if you were given the chance to build such a project?.
Whether a local product or service exists or not, that should have been established by the awarding authority of experts, not me. However, we need the answers so as to understand why local sectors were left out of the process, if at all they were.
*In the meantime, 10 years from now and possibly when the US markets have gone to the lowest points and Google thinks of selling out, what happens to the Kenyan online data on Google servers? Does the buyer in say China inherit it and charge Kenyans a small amount to access it?! What are the legal obligations and consequences on such matters? *
Rgds.
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 1:12 PM, [ Brainiac ] <arebacollins@gmail.com>wrote:
@aki,
You are quite like my brothers down here at the coast whose rallying cries are haki yetu, kunyanyaswa, mabepari and mabwenyenye.. All hot air really. So my question: Is there any product you have or know of that could serve these needs overtaken by foreigners that has been unjustly denied the opportunity to be deployed? If not then instead of sensational innuendo i suggest you get to work make PCBs, Computers, Their Operating systems, IDEs all in Kenya and then develop truly Kenyan products.
Dont keep us waiting for pipedreams just because its Kenyan.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- *“The twentieth century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: the growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy”*
~ Alex Carey ~
Tel No: 0x2af23696
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. For the dark things cannot stand the light.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
We have a lot to learn from the chinese, Thats my philosophy by the way. Ill try to be brief and cover a broad range: Dont reinvent the wheel, the shortest distance between two points, no matter who discovered it is a straight line. Look at who is doing the best, buy their stuff, tear it apart and make it better. Use it to learn best practice, accelerate learning and deploy yours. (then sell it to third world countries - kidding). There is a good reason why people go to the established brands, they have the benefit of experience. Any other way in ignorance to the rest would mean followint the path to discovery, and falling into the same or similar pits they did. Why do that? its costly. As phares asks, what is the limit to Kenyanization. Honestly if the limit is defined by what one person defines it as here on the list, isnt that making that person (aki in this case) the moral authority in defining the limits. Can we trust one person to define whats good for us? If kenyanize we must, then the first task i would give you Bw aki and Mister Watchman is tell us, convince us and justify what kenyanization would entail. (Remember bro there are many avenues of skinning this rat, including fronting a mututho like legislation that would in essence disrupt the game plans of what i call the "axis of evil". Onto the axis of evil, there apparently are issues raised on this list a while back on the integrity of some officers and some disparities in how they have handled their offices. Thanks to current legislation and an emboldened judiciary, i know for a fact there are people working on putting together a case. Hopefully Kenya has changed enough and where our money was lost it shall be recovered and where impropriety happened it shall be dealt with. Lastly, It is usually a good idea if you back up whatever allegations you say with proof. especially when they tough on persons, organizations or groups hitherto regarded as respectable. that way we dont relegate you to the cadre of some well known individuals that thrive on hurling allegations, insults and scandal as part of their strategy to remain relevant. Over n Out. On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 2:07 PM, Watchman <skunkingrahim@gmail.com> wrote:
@Jared.
way to go with being supportive of the local energy.
is this you? btw. ICT Officer * Centum Investment Company Limited<http://ke.linkedin.com/company/centum-investment-company-limited?trk=ppro_cprof> *
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 2:03 PM, Jared Koyier <jaredkoyier@gmail.com>wrote:
Am hesitant to comment on Aki-post coz they wind n wind n whine....anyway..there is nothing wrong with proven companies with proven solution working with the government to create efficiency.
If google/cisco/ibm are creating a solution that is going to better the lives of 40Million kenyans then to hell with 12 creative developers.
The same noise Aki is making was the same noise companies like Kirinyaga construction and the other local companies used to make when road contracts were being dished to Chinese firms. Thika road speaks for itself and now majority of these companies are actually collaborating with the chinese for technology n knowledge transfer.
I liked the mantra Domodomo...can someone revive it or we have to wait till 2011
Regards Jared Koyier
On 6 July 2011 13:45, [ Brainiac ] <arebacollins@gmail.com> wrote:
Thats where you get it all wrong my brother, You do not stop breathing just because you can contract flu. Dont Get me wrong, there is those of us busy talking about it in this list, then there is those busy working with the tools in their hands to offer solutions.
What i dont get (and dont bother, ill never understand the rationale) is the need to Kenyanize everything yet the tools we would use are not Kenyan. Do you notice the domain extension for your email address dude?
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 1:37 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
@Brainiac, :-)
I know you are not one of the copy/pasters, so what would have been your answer if you were given the chance to build such a project?.
Whether a local product or service exists or not, that should have been established by the awarding authority of experts, not me. However, we need the answers so as to understand why local sectors were left out of the process, if at all they were.
*In the meantime, 10 years from now and possibly when the US markets have gone to the lowest points and Google thinks of selling out, what happens to the Kenyan online data on Google servers? Does the buyer in say China inherit it and charge Kenyans a small amount to access it?! What are the legal obligations and consequences on such matters? *
Rgds.
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 1:12 PM, [ Brainiac ] <arebacollins@gmail.com>wrote:
@aki,
You are quite like my brothers down here at the coast whose rallying cries are haki yetu, kunyanyaswa, mabepari and mabwenyenye.. All hot air really. So my question: Is there any product you have or know of that could serve these needs overtaken by foreigners that has been unjustly denied the opportunity to be deployed? If not then instead of sensational innuendo i suggest you get to work make PCBs, Computers, Their Operating systems, IDEs all in Kenya and then develop truly Kenyan products.
Dont keep us waiting for pipedreams just because its Kenyan.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- *“The twentieth century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: the growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy”*
~ Alex Carey ~
Tel No: 0x2af23696
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- ...and I shall shed my light over dark evil. For the dark things cannot stand the light.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- *“The twentieth century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: the growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy”* ~ Alex Carey ~ Tel No: 0x2af23696
I think the issue here is not so much Kenyanizing as ownership and development of expertise. As stated in the Joomla thread, the reason we find a lot of Kenyan developer's are lacking in skill is because of what these already existing tools are doing to them i.e. They don't feel the need to go under the hood and figure out how it's working. And I can say with some level certainty that the large majority of the Joomla "users" have never even looked at the code behind the extensions they downloaded, let alone tried to develop their own extensions. Mich also said it quite well in the cloud computing thread: the reason we lack the expertise we are "more driven by the $ than by the technology to care to know how to build it all together. We have been quick to say that why reinvent the wheel... However, the downside of not reinventing the wheel is we take the wheel and use it without understanding why it was built that way - we just know that we need it and we use it" I believe not re-inventing the wheel only makes us complacent and by extension lazy @Areba Its an oxymoron to say don't reinvent the wheel then go ahead and praise the chinese - they reinvent the wheel everyday and in almost everything chinese that they build. The reinvention we are talking about here is not just about copy-pasting and placing a "Kenyan Production" Label, but as you said, breaking it apart and learning from it and then building your own! -Billy
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 1:37 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
In the meantime, 10 years from now and possibly when the US markets have gone to the lowest points and Google thinks of selling out, what happens to the Kenyan online data on Google servers? Does the buyer in say China inherit it and charge Kenyans a small amount to access it?! What are the legal obligations and consequences on such matters?
I think this is quite a pertinent point -- but reflects not so much on the vendor providing a service (i.e. google providing a platform to host such things .. ) but more on what seems like a shorter term vision for public data on the part of the government instead of having a longer term one. it would be fine if google (or any such provider) was a hosting point for government data *in addition* to an alternative owned by the government. the problem here is -- there appears to be no fallback. If you look at the google EULA (end user license agreement) -- much it is dependent on US law/regulations/sanctions. For example -- until recently (as recently as Jan 2011 ) people in Iran could not access many google services because of US export restrictions to Iran. Even now i believe specific iranian government IPs are blocked by google because of prevailing laws and sanctions on that country. You might say this kind of restriction may never apply to Kenya -- but you dont know what will happen 10 years down the line or 15 years down the line .. governments change everywhere and so goes foreign policy. Essentially, If you only provide access to your government's data to your citizens via a service whose availability is dependent on another government's foreign policy ... clearly there is a fundamental problem there ?
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 11:35 PM, <ashok+skunkworks@parliaments.info> wrote:
If you look at the google EULA (end user license agreement) -- much it is dependent on US law/regulations/sanctions.
Especially the Patriot Act, I bet if they had the technology, that act would allow them to intercept your thoughts.
participants (10)
-
[ Brainiac ] -
aki -
ashok+skunkworks＠parliaments.info -
Billy -
Jared Koyier -
Nd'wex Common -
One Murithi -
Peter Karunyu -
Phares Kariuki -
Watchman