Are you nuts? Why would you want to do so????? Rocky On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 2:18 PM, saich <saiched@gmail.com> wrote:

I not mean one website or one organization's connection to the internet.....i meant the entire World Wide Web whether its the physical infrastructure or the software part _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Skunkworks announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general

Thats why I still keep carrier pigeons as a backup for sendmail! U never know :-) -----Original Message----- From: Jose Ngunjiri <ngunjirijnr@gmail.com> Reply-to: Skunkworks forum <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> To: Skunkworks forum <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] what is the besy way to take down the internet!! Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 14:23:20 +0300 Oh my gosh!!why would you want to do that?My life would be crippled!!! How will i give my reports to my boss? On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 2:20 PM, rocky mbithi <rockymbithi@gmail.com> wrote: Are you nuts? Why would you want to do so????? Rocky On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 2:18 PM, saich <saiched@gmail.com> wrote: > I not mean one website or one organization's connection to the > internet.....i meant the entire World Wide Web whether its the > physical infrastructure or the software part > _______________________________________________ > Skunkworks mailing list > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > Other services @ http://my.co.ke > Other lists > ------------- > Skunkworks announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce > Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science > kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general > _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Skunkworks announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general -- jose-kic.blogspot.com | Readiness | Availability | Uptake | Impact | _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Skunkworks announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general -- Regards, Joe Linux User: #361092 SIP: joenjeru@ekiga.net

Hi Saich, saich wrote:

There are a lot of crazy guys out there who are pondering on this question and in order to stop them u have to be ahead of the game and think like them.

Be under no illusion, that there are equally lots of crazy guys who would want the internet to stay up. The same folks who cause mayhem on the internet would turn out to begging if the internet ceased to exist. The only reason we have them online is because there's a revenue stream by making folks see and pay for Internet security. That's what Proactive Internet Investigation is all

about.

If you take a moment to read the urls that has been posted you will see there are lots of new developments on the internet towards keeping it more secure and stable. Theres a new extension to the DNS protocl to safeguard against DNS spoofing and cache poisoning called DNSSEC There's ongoing development of routing security and introduction of a PKI X.509 - http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/pkix-charter.html IPv6 makes it harder for port and IP number scanning to happen. It reduces random attacks on networks compared to IPv4. What we have learned with time is that our biggest challenge is not the technology but the human factor. We are still vulnerable when it comes to social engineering and thats something we have to deal with. There's alot more going on, you are welcome to join and contribute to the communities that volunteer their time and resources to keep the Internet stable and usable. Regards, Mich.

First of all Saich, know that, given unlimited time and money, nothing is impossible (except maybe getting into heaven :-). As mentioned by Michuki, one would need to launch a multi target attack on the various bits and pieces that make the internet what it is. So, why not start at the source? The root name servers<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Root_nameserver>seem like a nice ripe target ready for picking. However, there is a small problem; the 13 root name servers are heavily redundant, HEAVILY! So, for you to take out maybe 2 of them, you would probably need both Conficker and Storm <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storm_botnet>, maybe plus the new iWork trojan. And/or, you could target the way the DNS works, by getting Karumanzila to create a potent concotion for DNS Poisoning<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNS_cache_poisoning>. And while your minions are furiuosly banging away at the DNS, why not get your trusted assistant to listen in on the security companies by hacking the cell phone network. It has been done before<http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/jul07/5280>, surely, it can be done again yes? So far we have the logical transportation system of the net creaking under the load, next step is to target the physical hardware. Get the contacts of the major routers of the major backbone providers and send them a nicely packaged PDoS<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_denial-of-service_attack#Permanent_denial-of-service_attacks> . I could go on and on... But the best advice is, use the unlimited time and money to create the ultimate evil AI software (read Skynet<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skynet_%28Terminator%29>), continously learning how the internet works and how best to defend/attack it. The major point here is that it has to keep learning. Most of the stuff mentioned above have a very high likelihood of not working coz they are old methods, plus there are a lot of crazy guys out there who want them not to work. Then when the AI app is done, put it in a robotic spaceship and send it to the sun's core, where no one can get to it, and when the time is right, have it hack the sun. The ensuing chaos will provide a nice backdrop for it to 'drop' the internet. On second thoughts, dropping Facebook, Twitter and Google would probably cause the same chaos. On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 3:21 PM, saich <saiched@gmail.com> wrote:

lollest ati carrier pigeons and smoke and drums...... There are a lot of crazy guys out there who are pondering on this question and in order to stop them u have to be ahead of the game and think like them.That's what Proactive Internet Investigation is all _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Skunkworks announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general

@ Peter now those are Gud ideas...thanks

That will result in a veeeeeery slooooow internet, but it will be far from dead. Back to those trusty modems, acoustic couplers and null cables. You can have "wireless" connectivity using HAM radio - voice and data. Very low data rates, very high latency...but with that, you can talk to a guy on the other side of the planet....a very laggy internet, yu get the point. Remember the days BEFORE the "internet" - modems, POTS, BBS's, static, text-only websites....? We'd be back there. Down but not out... </MotoBaridi> On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 4:29 PM, Jacob Odada <jacob.odada@gmail.com> wrote:

Cut off all the fiber cables, blow up all satellites or just simply buy all tha public IP's and close down the net.

On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 4:04 PM, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com> wrote:

...

First of all Saich, know that, given unlimited time and money, nothing is impossible (except maybe getting into heaven :-). As mentioned by Michuki, one would need to launch a multi target attack on the various bits and pieces that make the internet what it is.

So, why not start at the source? The root name servers<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Root_nameserver>seem like a nice ripe target ready for picking. However, there is a small problem; the 13 root name servers are heavily redundant, HEAVILY! So, for you to take out maybe 2 of them, you would probably need both Conficker and Storm <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storm_botnet>, maybe plus the new iWork trojan.

And/or, you could target the way the DNS works, by getting Karumanzila to create a potent concotion for DNS Poisoning<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNS_cache_poisoning>. And while your minions are furiuosly banging away at the DNS, why not get your trusted assistant to listen in on the security companies by hacking the cell phone network. It has been done before<http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/jul07/5280>, surely, it can be done again yes?

So far we have the logical transportation system of the net creaking under the load, next step is to target the physical hardware. Get the contacts of the major routers of the major backbone providers and send them a nicely packaged PDoS<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_denial-of-service_attack#Permanent_denial-of-service_attacks> .

I could go on and on... But the best advice is, use the unlimited time and money to create the ultimate evil AI software (read Skynet<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skynet_%28Terminator%29>), continously learning how the internet works and how best to defend/attack it. The major point here is that it has to keep learning. Most of the stuff mentioned above have a very high likelihood of not working coz they are old methods, plus there are a lot of crazy guys out there who want them not to work.

Then when the AI app is done, put it in a robotic spaceship and send it to the sun's core, where no one can get to it, and when the time is right, have it hack the sun. The ensuing chaos will provide a nice backdrop for it to 'drop' the internet. On second thoughts, dropping Facebook, Twitter and Google would probably cause the same chaos.

On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 3:21 PM, saich <saiched@gmail.com> wrote:

...

lollest ati carrier pigeons and smoke and drums...... There are a lot of crazy guys out there who are pondering on this question and in order to stop them u have to be ahead of the game and think like them.That's what Proactive Internet Investigation is all _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Skunkworks announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Skunkworks announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Skunkworks announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general

128 kbit/s http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-STAR </MotoBaridi> On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 5:17 PM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:

ati Ham radio! lol! what baud?

On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 5:15 PM, MotoBaridi <motobaridi@gmail.com> wrote:

...

That will result in a veeeeeery slooooow internet, but it will be far from dead. Back to those trusty modems, acoustic couplers and null cables. You can have "wireless" connectivity using HAM radio - voice and data. Very low data rates, very high latency...but with that, you can talk to a guy on the other side of the planet....a very laggy internet, yu get the point. Remember the days BEFORE the "internet" - modems, POTS, BBS's, static, text-only websites....? We'd be back there. Down but not out...

</MotoBaridi>

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Skunkworks announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general

1.Get everyone to lose interest in it... Its like trying to shut down electricity......or piped water for that matter On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 5:15 PM, MotoBaridi <motobaridi@gmail.com> wrote:

That will result in a veeeeeery slooooow internet, but it will be far from dead. Back to those trusty modems, acoustic couplers and null cables. You can have "wireless" connectivity using HAM radio - voice and data. Very low data rates, very high latency...but with that, you can talk to a guy on the other side of the planet....a very laggy internet, yu get the point. Remember the days BEFORE the "internet" - modems, POTS, BBS's, static, text-only websites....? We'd be back there. Down but not out...

</MotoBaridi>

On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 4:29 PM, Jacob Odada <jacob.odada@gmail.com>wrote:

...

Cut off all the fiber cables, blow up all satellites or just simply buy all tha public IP's and close down the net.

On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 4:04 PM, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com>wrote:

...

First of all Saich, know that, given unlimited time and money, nothing is impossible (except maybe getting into heaven :-). As mentioned by Michuki, one would need to launch a multi target attack on the various bits and pieces that make the internet what it is.

So, why not start at the source? The root name servers<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Root_nameserver>seem like a nice ripe target ready for picking. However, there is a small problem; the 13 root name servers are heavily redundant, HEAVILY! So, for you to take out maybe 2 of them, you would probably need both Conficker and Storm <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storm_botnet>, maybe plus the new iWork trojan.

And/or, you could target the way the DNS works, by getting Karumanzila to create a potent concotion for DNS Poisoning<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNS_cache_poisoning>. And while your minions are furiuosly banging away at the DNS, why not get your trusted assistant to listen in on the security companies by hacking the cell phone network. It has been done before<http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/jul07/5280>, surely, it can be done again yes?

So far we have the logical transportation system of the net creaking under the load, next step is to target the physical hardware. Get the contacts of the major routers of the major backbone providers and send them a nicely packaged PDoS<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_denial-of-service_attack#Permanent_denial-of-service_attacks> .

I could go on and on... But the best advice is, use the unlimited time and money to create the ultimate evil AI software (read Skynet<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skynet_%28Terminator%29>), continously learning how the internet works and how best to defend/attack it. The major point here is that it has to keep learning. Most of the stuff mentioned above have a very high likelihood of not working coz they are old methods, plus there are a lot of crazy guys out there who want them not to work.

Then when the AI app is done, put it in a robotic spaceship and send it to the sun's core, where no one can get to it, and when the time is right, have it hack the sun. The ensuing chaos will provide a nice backdrop for it to 'drop' the internet. On second thoughts, dropping Facebook, Twitter and Google would probably cause the same chaos.

On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 3:21 PM, saich <saiched@gmail.com> wrote:

...

lollest ati carrier pigeons and smoke and drums...... There are a lot of crazy guys out there who are pondering on this question and in order to stop them u have to be ahead of the game and think like them.That's what Proactive Internet Investigation is all _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Skunkworks announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Skunkworks announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Skunkworks announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Skunkworks announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general

-- Sent from my Watch© Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.

Why go after the internet as a whole, try shutting down the online equivalent of cockroaches, thepiratebay.org, whole governments have tried shutting it down with no luck... On 4/27/09, MotoBaridi <motobaridi@gmail.com> wrote:

Actually, given enough time, GOOGLE will learn everything about the internet, and much more about the wetware packages (read humans) so dependent on it. Then all you need is a brilliantly evil nerd to execute that crucial script to get everything going. Either that, or GOOGLE becomes sentient and decides to shut all systems down.

<whata hapPEnimg to mt ketboqrd?%>

On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 4:04 PM, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com> wrote:

...

First of all Saich, know that, given unlimited time and money, nothing is impossible (except maybe getting into heaven :-). As mentioned by Michuki, one would need to launch a multi target attack on the various bits and pieces that make the internet what it is.

So, why not start at the source? The root name servers<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Root_nameserver>seem like a nice ripe target ready for picking. However, there is a small problem; the 13 root name servers are heavily redundant, HEAVILY! So, for you to take out maybe 2 of them, you would probably need both Conficker and Storm <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storm_botnet>, maybe plus the new iWork trojan.

And/or, you could target the way the DNS works, by getting Karumanzila to create a potent concotion for DNS Poisoning<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNS_cache_poisoning>. And while your minions are furiuosly banging away at the DNS, why not get your trusted assistant to listen in on the security companies by hacking the cell phone network. It has been done before<http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/jul07/5280>, surely, it can be done again yes?

So far we have the logical transportation system of the net creaking under the load, next step is to target the physical hardware. Get the contacts of the major routers of the major backbone providers and send them a nicely packaged PDoS<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_denial-of-service_attack#Permanent_denial-of-service_attacks> .

I could go on and on... But the best advice is, use the unlimited time and money to create the ultimate evil AI software (read Skynet<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skynet_%28Terminator%29>), continously learning how the internet works and how best to defend/attack it. The major point here is that it has to keep learning. Most of the stuff mentioned above have a very high likelihood of not working coz they are old methods, plus there are a lot of crazy guys out there who want them not to work.

Then when the AI app is done, put it in a robotic spaceship and send it to the sun's core, where no one can get to it, and when the time is right, have it hack the sun. The ensuing chaos will provide a nice backdrop for it to 'drop' the internet. On second thoughts, dropping Facebook, Twitter and Google would probably cause the same chaos.

On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 3:21 PM, saich <saiched@gmail.com> wrote:

...

lollest ati carrier pigeons and smoke and drums...... There are a lot of crazy guys out there who are pondering on this question and in order to stop them u have to be ahead of the game and think like them.That's what Proactive Internet Investigation is all _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Skunkworks announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Skunkworks announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general

-- ------------------------------ <MotoBaridi, incoherently mumbling to self since 1981> ------------------------------ T: +254 722 296 184 , +254 732 296 654 E: motobaridi@motobaridi.com W: www.unmappedafrica.com | www.motobaridi.com | www.mosc.motobaridi.com | www.moto.motobaridi.com | www.motobaridi.blogspot.com

-- With Regards, Phares Kariuki | T: +254 734 810 802 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares |

For reasons that you have seem some express on this list and others. There are alot of people who have gone to a great length to build in Security, redundancy and scalability on the Internet infrastructure today. So what you are prescribing is theoretically possible but not realistic because too many parties would have to be involved to achieve such an effect. This is not to say that the Internet does not have its weak spots and i will mention a few in no particular order. 1) Too many hosts (read end user devices) on the Internet are dependent on one vendor for instance Microsoft products. We have seen the impact this has on operational stability for end users on the Internet repeatedly and most recently the Conficker worm. The same is repeated over many other vendors software applications used by services that are critical on the internet. The impact of such systems failing is not the main concern but the cascading effect this may result in. 2) The DNS - The entire internet is inherently dependent on this DNS resolution process. As it stands, the hierarchical structure of this system has several weak points. This has been ably demonstrated in the past and most recently by Dan Kaminsky 3) BGP Routing - The Internet depends on the this protocol to route packets to their destination. This protocol lacks fool proof security and is dependent on trust relationships between the different service provider tiers. Repeatedly this trust relationship has been cast to doubt with Routing Hijacks a not so recent one being on Google's You Tube and also our very own Africa Online. The weak points in the above three have created opportunities for those with the skills and time to launch small and large scale attacks with an intent to "bring down the Internet". a) An Amplified and Sustained DoS and DDoS constant threat to the Internet's stability. b) As mentioned viruses, spam etc are another way of disrupting the normal operations of the Internet. The two above focus on flooding the Internet bandwidth capacities and overloading servers beyond their current limits. This has had relative success. This method was successfully used to launch cyber wars against a small country called Estonia in 2007 in Eastern Europe. As a result, the folks whose main job is to ensure the internet remains stable have reviewed many scenarios and put measures in place to mitigate against such attacks on a global scale that would render the internet unusable (not down) :) The most important bit of it all is the collaboration that exists between various operators of critical infrastructures and willing to deal with such threats. As i mentioned, its possible to bring down parts of the Internet, but not the whole. This was very possible about 10 - 15yrs back. But alot of Security, Scalability and Redundancy has been build into the Internet that its no longer practically possible. But then again the Internet is full of surprises :) Regards, Michuki. saich wrote:

I not mean one website or one organization's connection to the internet.....i meant the entire World Wide Web whether its the physical infrastructure or the software part

Hi Wash, Odhiambo ワシントン wrote:

Mich,

I still think that shutting down the DNS ROOT Servers will take down the Internet, no? Though not instantly.

As i had mentioned, it will require the consent of the US Government amongst and the individual and independent Root-Server operators who are NOT under USG. It will take a while if that would potentially happen. Also please note that there are over 100 instances of Root-Servers globally those would need to be shutdown too. locations www.root-servers.org If the root-server failed am sure a good number of people would revive the Alternative roots - this were seemingly alternative solutions for the Root that have died with time as some realities have come to pass. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_DNS_root Bottom line, shutting down the DNS Root servers will break down the resolution process. P2P and other applications that are non-dns dependent will continue to function. Hence it will cripple users ability to access content that they access through names. But everything else will remain intact. Regards, Michuki.

2009/4/27 John Doe <fivepings@gmail.com>

Imagine A virus/worm that attacks Cisco IOS and Juniper JUNOS (if its not cisco its juniper right?).

Not quite! So many people run Zebra, Quagga, OpenBGPD and others using Unix OS...

Once in the router, it messes with the BGP, ISIS and OSPF routes; using sequence numbers maybe? Causing routers to accept routes pointing to null interfaces and propagate these routes to the neighbors....maybe just maybe...

But why would you want to ensure skunkworks and the likes are no more?

Hehee.. it went down for a few days and everyone pulled out a hankie - to wipe their tears :) But I guess we all have lost site of the original question!!!! I do maintain that it is possible to take down the Internet. What is the best way though? If the whole world agreed (I mean all govts) that the Internet is as evil as it is and so we needed some "quiet" for a week or so, what would be the best way? Did the OP intend to only get illegal means or is it just we all decided to selectively understand the question? -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ "Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society." -- Mark Twain

Could this be Conficker at work? "Excellent people exceed expectations". ________________________________ From: "dicksonmwangi356@hotmail.com" <dicksonmwangi356@hotmail.com> To: skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 3:36:10 PM Subject: [Skunkworks] Vacation reply Dear friend, I would like to introduce a really good company that mainly do the electornic products trade. Now the company is doing promotion,all of it's products are sold nearly as same as their cost. It redeners the best service to customers,it provide you original products which is good quality,and what's more,the pricewill give you a big surprise! It is realy a good opportunity for doing shopping.Just grasp the opportunity,or there will be no more than that! The web address: www.kanicn.com

2009/4/27 Kenneth Ndirangu <kendirangu@gmail.com>:

Take down the 10 largest internet exchange points. [...] Yeah, hadn't thought of that.....

Bring down major satellite teleports (which would have been used as backups). That and a few well placed fiber cuts would do wonders. There is a study done on the effect of fiber cuts around Egypt early last year. http://www.apnic.net/meetings/25/program/apops1/earl-fiber-cut-analysis.pdf. You can go further and target terrestrial links in Europe and US. A few days ago AT&T suffered sabotage in some city that affected thousands.. http://www.thestandard.com/news/2009/04/09/fiber-cuts-slash-silicon-valleys-...

OMG!! This the same Ken I know?? I hope Jack Bauer's lurking somewhere on this list :) :) BR, S -- "A democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding on what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the results of the decision." - Stolen from someone else's sig.

Kenneth Ndirangu wrote:

Take down the 10 largest internet exchange points. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Internet_Exchange_Points_by_size BGP would go crazy on most routers, most major web/content hosting datacenters would be unreachable, effectively the Internet would be either completely down or very slow.

Not entirely true :( how do you define taking down the 10? - For a start you need to understand that would esssentially mean taking down entire cities since the peering points for LINX, AMSIX and DEC-IX are spread across the cities. Also Netnode is a government facility - no one knows where it is cept for a few folks who run it. By taking this 10 out, it means all traffic will go via transit links to reach other networks most of which are large enough pipes and not fully utilized. finally, most CDNs have edge caching at most of the smaller IXPs hence that will still continue.

Bring down major satellite teleports (which would have been used as backups). That and a few well placed fiber cuts would do wonders. There is a study done on the effect of fiber cuts around Egypt early last year. http://www.apnic.net/meetings/25/program/apops1/earl-fiber-cut-analysis.pdf. You can go further and target terrestrial links in Europe and US. A few days ago AT&T suffered sabotage in some city that affected thousands.. http://www.thestandard.com/news/2009/04/09/fiber-cuts-slash-silicon-valleys-...

This will definitely create an interesting mix if you managed the above. Teleports will definitely leave Africa in the dark for it were. Fiber cuts have had their impacts.

Pockets of the internet might still function but it would no longer be the Internet.

All the above plus a sustained DDoS attack on all Root and TLD Name Servers would down the net. I agree, but all this is purely theoretical - in practice it means you must be one large organization with alot of resources and social engineering to pull this one through. It sort of reminds me of the Bruce Wills movie die hard 4?. Only in the movies. Regards, Mich.

You cannot take down the internet. This is because of every single link radiating and meshing outwards to and from the sources. The internet [meaning interconnection of computers] will still be there, but the users may not be able to reach their searched content if one applies all the theories outlined above successfully. That said, in-order to bring down the internet in the literal meaning of the word, *without* the terminal/servers/PC endpoints, *then* there would be no internet. Obviously trying to destroy the redundant links would be impossible in the sense that, given their location [space, underground, submarine, mountains etc] and the time-frame and resources required,, the links would be restored even as you move to destroy another area. On the other hand, if you hunt down the computers that form this internet... the same impossible feat would be revealed because once again, whether it be physical destruction *or* viruses and worms,, the users can still replace or restore as fast as you destroy them. So the philosophical question is : HOW DO YOU BRING DOWN THE INTERNET ALL AT ONCE ?? Answer :- Destroy all the connected terminal computers at once ! HOW DO YOU DESTROY ALL THE CONNECTED COMPUTERS AT ONCE ??? Now this is where we are all limited in technology except in the realm of science fiction. On the top of my head : 1) Make a huge Electro-Magnetic Pulse bomb whose effects would reach 6400km radius and ..... 2) ..

On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 10:42 AM, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com> wrote:

People, lets think out of the box here. First, lets convince ourselves that it is possible, only that there are a lot of obstacles. If an alien wanted to take out the Internet, how would they do it? [this statement is not an indication of my belief or lack of belief in extra-terrestrial life forms] They would probably not be bound by the same rules as we are i.e. its impossible.

Yes, we may want to propagate all the different "obstacles" to bringing down the Internet (read as NOT the physical network of computer terminals, but as the global logical communication medium) but I still do believe the Internet is not invincible. We just think it is, but some guy can give it a single fatal shot, I am sure. Perhaps, now that we have not been able to agree on how easy it is, the original question should serve as a driving force towards working on ways to mitigate the Internet's imminent failure due to alien power or some rogue whizz kid:) -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ "Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society." -- Mark Twain

@Saich, My internet has been veeeeery sloooow for the last two days, and you've been investigating ways to bring it down? Coincidence? </MotoBaridi, waiting for gmail.........> On 4/28/09, ndungu stephen <ndungustephen@gmail.com> wrote:

but some guy can give it a single fatal shot,.. working on ways to mitigate

...

the Internet's imminent failure due to alien power or some rogue whizz kid:)

From your statement above, i guess you agree that inorder to bring down the internet, one has to find a solution to hit the whole thing at once,, not in stages [because redundancy measures would recover it] On your second point, you agree that there is no existing being/person who can implement the afore mentioned statement.

So at Saich, from your research, do you agree with the logic outlined that it is currently impossible to completely bring down the internet ??

[This message is sponsored by people who do not want the internet to be brought down]

Alex, have to report that i have succumbed too and you actually might be very right but i cant help thinking Dickson took a vacation in Asia and is trying to spread his wings, business-wise 2009/4/28 Alex Nderitu <nderitualex@gmail.com>:

On second thought, I have a feeling this auto responder thing got to dicksonmwangi356@hotmail.com without his knowledge and could be a new way of spamming since the sender will appear trusted making you read and hence the spammer attaining his/her objective. Visiting www.kanicn.com (I finally succumbed) takes me to a overseas site (most likely chinese). I wounder what a Mwangi would be doing with that.

And is it just me or do any of you occasionally get unsolicited IM from hotmail buddies which are clearly spam.

 -----Original Message----- From: dicksonmwangi356@hotmail.com Reply-to: Skunkworks forum <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> To: skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke Subject: [Skunkworks] Vacation reply Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 01:49:22 -0700

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Hi Saich, saich wrote:

Thanks people you have given much insight....and yes you are right the best way would be to take down the 13 DNS Root Servers actually it was done in 2006 when some dudes managed to flood 6 of the 13 with traffic b4 they were found out...this considerabl slowed down the net..... _______

This is not entirely correct in the last 10 years there has been to major attacks on the Root-Servers in 2002 (The first ddos on Root-servers) and in 2007. Both incidents found me relatively well placed within the TLD operator community. Saying that they slowed down the net is an interesting concept since most users actually never realized that there was an issue until the incident was reported. If you have an understanding of how DNS Round-Robin works you will realise that the implications of the Feb 2007 attacks while large targeted 6 with 2 being severely affected. Since 2002 F, K, I, J and M had commenced anycasting of their instances and did not notice signficant impacts. The result as was put did not slow down the net but caused engineers lack of sleep. Today only B, D, E, G and H are not anycasted. The rest have multiple sites around the globe. If you wish to attack the root this might be a place to start. FYI you better have sufficient zombies to fill multiple 40G circuits and overun highly spec'd servers running very scalable applications i.e NSD or BIND plus very smart engineers who may filter you backwards in under an hour. All in all this will not even slow down the net since everyone will still have access to over 100 other Root-servers to query from. I still think that the best way to cause outage on the net is to corrupt the global routing table (ok i finally said it). The DNS is far too stable at the moment. This can be achieved by sending a malformed packet that can either 1) Cause routers to reset (causing route dampening over a period of time will cause the internet to become unstable and unusable) and b) cause routers to clear the FIB or route all packets to Null0. Ofcourse this will have to be done for all the top 5 router vendors to have any significant effect. http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/707/cisco-sa-20010510-ios-bgp-attr.shtml and http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/products_security_advisory09186a00803be7... and http://secunia.com/advisories/28100/ The other option would be to consider attacking applications that would cause attention to the public. That is attaching Web-Servers and Mail services using various exploits would easily cause a global concern. This is with consideration that if a user cant browse or check/send email then the net is not working. That will get you headlines like "Internet is down" with the media folks :) Have a pleasant weekend. Regards, Michuki.

Assuming of course: -> Aliens are equally or more intelligent than we are. -> Aliens understand (or have the capacity to understand) the workings of the internet (IP, bits and bytes, TCP stack etc etc) -> Aliens are interested in taking down the internet for some reason (more often than not, all they seem to care about is doing away with humans - at least from the few movies i've watched) </Aliens walk among us! See the goofy-looking guy across the street?> On 4/28/09, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:

watch transformers :) great movie.

On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 10:42 AM, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com> wrote:

...

People, lets think out of the box here. First, lets convince ourselves that it is possible, only that there are a lot of obstacles. If an alien wanted to take out the Internet, how would they do it? [this statement is not an indication of my belief or lack of belief in extra-terrestrial life forms] They would probably not be bound by the same rules as we are i.e. its impossible.

To all the Skunkers out there........... let me make a point of clarification tthis was purely research work for academic purposes yaani homework....SO DONT ANY OF YOU TRY THIS @ HOME

DONT ANY OF YOU TRY THIS @ HOME... TRY THIS @ WORK! lol! </motobaridi> On 4/28/09, saich <saiched@gmail.com> wrote:

To all the Skunkers out there........... let me make a point of clarification tthis was purely research work for academic purposes yaani homework....SO DONT ANY OF YOU TRY THIS @ HOME _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Skunkworks announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general

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--

On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 5:49 PM, Steve Muchai <smuchai@gmail.com> wrote:

2009/4/27 Odhiambo ワシントン <odhiambo@gmail.com>:

...

I believe shutting down all the DNS ROOT Servers is enough, no?

True, but taking down all 13 (are they still 13) would be near impossible.

Why impossible? They are run by some people, no? Just order them to do it;)

Then there are several hundred thousand, if not a couple of million, sane DNS caches out there which would keep the 'net running until the root are back.....

The ROOT servers are not supposed to come back! They are destroyed So soon, TTL and expire times reach for all domains and slowly (but surely) things start stalling... Maybe not, but if the Internet relied on a single DNS server, it sould be the easiest way to "shut it down". -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ "Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society." -- Mark Twain

2009/4/27 Sam Oduor <sam.oduor@gmail.com>

...

what is the besy way to take down the internet ?

Why dont you just unplug you network cable or turn off your wireless device or maybe unplug that USB modem and then stop sending this mail .... its a start :) isnt it? -- Δαβίδ H. L. Mencken <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/h/h_l_mencken.html> - "It is even harder for the average ape to believe that he has descended from man."