Standard Digital News : State warned on ditching copyrighted software
Last week, the Government issued a warning that in the next three years it will move its IT operations to Free and Open Source Software (FOSS), a move that will reduce cost by more than half in IT expenses. http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000066158&story_title=State-warne...
Isnt it interesting that it is only closed source software vendors spelling doom and gloom? On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 7:34 PM, <awatila@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Last week, the Government issued a warning that in the next three years it will move its IT operations to Free and Open Source Software (FOSS), a move that will reduce cost by more than half in IT expenses.
http://www.standardmedia.co.**ke/?articleID=2000066158&** story_title=State-warned-on-**ditching-copyrighted-software<http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000066158&story_title=State-warned-on-ditching-copyrighted-software> ______________________________**_________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/**mailman/listinfo/skunkworks<http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks> ------------
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Windows is 10 times more susceptible to hackers than any other opensource application On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 9:15 PM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
Isnt it interesting that it is only closed source software vendors spelling doom and gloom?
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 7:34 PM, <awatila@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Last week, the Government issued a warning that in the next three years it will move its IT operations to Free and Open Source Software (FOSS), a move that will reduce cost by more than half in IT expenses.
http://www.standardmedia.co.**ke/?articleID=2000066158&** story_title=State-warned-on-**ditching-copyrighted-software<http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000066158&story_title=State-warned-on-ditching-copyrighted-software> ______________________________**_________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/**mailman/listinfo/skunkworks<http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks> ------------
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in all fairness to paul Roy, who Ill admit is known to me and an active member of this list as well as a Microsoft guy, I chose to answer it this way, all software, open source and closed source needs support. Closed source software is more expensice because in addition it requires license fees, Open source then being cheaper because it does not require a license. Which then makes his assertions about the software being more vulnerable a half truth... On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 9:22 PM, charles kungu <charles.kungu@gmail.com>wrote:
Windows is 10 times more susceptible to hackers than any other opensource application
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 9:15 PM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
Isnt it interesting that it is only closed source software vendors spelling doom and gloom?
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 7:34 PM, <awatila@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Last week, the Government issued a warning that in the next three years it will move its IT operations to Free and Open Source Software (FOSS), a move that will reduce cost by more than half in IT expenses.
http://www.standardmedia.co.**ke/?articleID=2000066158&** story_title=State-warned-on-**ditching-copyrighted-software<http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000066158&story_title=State-warned-on-ditching-copyrighted-software> ______________________________**_________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/**mailman/listinfo/skunkworks<http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks> ------------
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-- Regards,
Mark Mwangi
markmwangi.me.ke
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"...Windows is 10 times more susceptible to hackers than any other opensource application..." Something rather disturbing about that sentence. It is as if a million skunks were suddenly let loose... That said, "opensource" is MOSTLY, but NOT always, "secure". There are some truly insecure FOSS applications out there. Equally so, there are some truly solid Windows applications. //Flame-suit [ON] On 9/16/12, charles kungu <charles.kungu@gmail.com> wrote:
Windows is 10 times more susceptible to hackers than any other opensource application
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 9:15 PM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
Isnt it interesting that it is only closed source software vendors spelling doom and gloom?
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 7:34 PM, <awatila@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Last week, the Government issued a warning that in the next three years it will move its IT operations to Free and Open Source Software (FOSS), a move that will reduce cost by more than half in IT expenses.
http://www.standardmedia.co.**ke/?articleID=2000066158&** story_title=State-warned-on-**ditching-copyrighted-software<http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000066158&story_title=State-warned-on-ditching-copyrighted-software> ______________________________**_________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/**mailman/listinfo/skunkworks<http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks> ------------
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-- Regards,
Mark Mwangi
markmwangi.me.ke
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-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- //why does it rain? the rain god. why does the sun rise? the sun god. what decides battles? the war god. what decides love? the love goddess. what gives children? the fertility goddess. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No hot childlike enthusiasm debates to melt the diodes off our LCD screens (AMOLED)?. No, truthfully, am glad that we can argue with facts and not fiction and flame. Unfortunately, closed source vendors are stuck in the past and always bring up the same point 10 years later. Open source guys have come to accept the fact that there is a cost to opensource, namely payment for professional service. On the other hand, closed source proponents have never accepted that open source has support and is the most secure code out there. The government plans to do migration in 3 years, that is enough time to train/shop around/grow all the resources needed to run in the opensource environment. On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 6:25 AM, MotoBaridi <motobaridi@gmail.com> wrote:
"...Windows is 10 times more susceptible to hackers than any other opensource application..."
Something rather disturbing about that sentence. It is as if a million skunks were suddenly let loose...
That said, "opensource" is MOSTLY, but NOT always, "secure". There are some truly insecure FOSS applications out there. Equally so, there are some truly solid Windows applications.
//Flame-suit [ON]
On 9/16/12, charles kungu <charles.kungu@gmail.com> wrote:
Windows is 10 times more susceptible to hackers than any other opensource application
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 9:15 PM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
Isnt it interesting that it is only closed source software vendors spelling doom and gloom?
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 7:34 PM, <awatila@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Last week, the Government issued a warning that in the next three years it will move its IT operations to Free and Open Source Software (FOSS), a move that will reduce cost by more than half in IT expenses.
http://www.standardmedia.co.**ke/?articleID=2000066158&** story_title=State-warned-on-**ditching-copyrighted-software<
http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000066158&story_title=State-warne...
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Mark Mwangi
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On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 4:02 PM, Frankline Chitwa <frank.chitwa@gmail.com> wrote:
No hot childlike enthusiasm debates to melt the diodes off our LCD screens (AMOLED)?.
No, truthfully, am glad that we can argue with facts and not fiction and flame.
+1. The level of maturity in this current debate is encouraging, with issues such as TCO and ROI being mentioned.. A few years ago this would have been a flame war. (going back into lurk mode) BR, S
If most of the listers are like me, I am working on positioning myself for this switch. Open-source software builds a service rather than a product based industry. You don't buy a DVD of software. You buy the service to customize and support the software. Seems more vulnerable at first but in the long run the competition and skill-set demanded will be good for the market/economy. On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 6:09 PM, Steve Muchai <smuchai@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 4:02 PM, Frankline Chitwa <frank.chitwa@gmail.com> wrote:
No hot childlike enthusiasm debates to melt the diodes off our LCD screens (AMOLED)?.
No, truthfully, am glad that we can argue with facts and not fiction and flame.
+1. The level of maturity in this current debate is encouraging, with issues such as TCO and ROI being mentioned.. A few years ago this would have been a flame war.
(going back into lurk mode)
BR, S _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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While we at it, Valencia completed migration of 120,000 desktops to LibreOffice, to save more than $1,500,000 per year http://iloveubuntu.net/valencia-completed-migration-120000-desktops-libreoff... On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 6:44 PM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
If most of the listers are like me, I am working on positioning myself for this switch. Open-source software builds a service rather than a product based industry. You don't buy a DVD of software. You buy the service to customize and support the software. Seems more vulnerable at first but in the long run the competition and skill-set demanded will be good for the market/economy.
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 6:09 PM, Steve Muchai <smuchai@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 4:02 PM, Frankline Chitwa <frank.chitwa@gmail.com> wrote:
No hot childlike enthusiasm debates to melt the diodes off our LCD screens (AMOLED)?.
No, truthfully, am glad that we can argue with facts and not fiction and flame.
+1. The level of maturity in this current debate is encouraging, with issues such as TCO and ROI being mentioned.. A few years ago this would have been a flame war.
(going back into lurk mode)
BR, S _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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-- Regards,
Mark Mwangi
markmwangi.me.ke
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<My two cents> Finding the efficient mix should be the way to go, as suggested by RAD! I also find myself running both open-source and closed source for day to day activities. Efficiency is the key word for me. </My two cents> ./Sam On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 9:43 PM, Stephen Wanjau <wanjaustev@gmail.com>wrote:
While we at it, Valencia completed migration of 120,000 desktops to LibreOffice, to save more than $1,500,000 per year http://iloveubuntu.net/valencia-completed-migration-120000-desktops-libreoff...
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 6:44 PM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
If most of the listers are like me, I am working on positioning myself for this switch. Open-source software builds a service rather than a product based industry. You don't buy a DVD of software. You buy the service to customize and support the software. Seems more vulnerable at first but in the long run the competition and skill-set demanded will be good for the market/economy.
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 6:09 PM, Steve Muchai <smuchai@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 4:02 PM, Frankline Chitwa <frank.chitwa@gmail.com> wrote:
No hot childlike enthusiasm debates to melt the diodes off our LCD screens (AMOLED)?.
No, truthfully, am glad that we can argue with facts and not fiction and flame.
+1. The level of maturity in this current debate is encouraging, with issues such as TCO and ROI being mentioned.. A few years ago this would have been a flame war.
(going back into lurk mode)
BR, S _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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-- Regards,
Mark Mwangi
markmwangi.me.ke
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Given that Kenya is not the first country to make such a move, I see no reason for M$ to spell doom, really. Kenya can learn and borrow from those countries. I am sure M$ knows that there are countries already fully on FOSS. On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 9:15 PM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
Isnt it interesting that it is only closed source software vendors spelling doom and gloom?
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 7:34 PM, <awatila@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Last week, the Government issued a warning that in the next three years it will move its IT operations to Free and Open Source Software (FOSS), a move that will reduce cost by more than half in IT expenses.
http://www.standardmedia.co.**ke/?articleID=2000066158&** story_title=State-warned-on-**ditching-copyrighted-software<http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000066158&story_title=State-warned-on-ditching-copyrighted-software> ______________________________**_________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/**mailman/listinfo/skunkworks<http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks> ------------
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-- Regards,
Mark Mwangi
markmwangi.me.ke
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Microsoft are here to do business after all not sit back and watch a country take charge of its affairs by not pay millions in license fees. More employment for locals anyone? On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 10:21 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>wrote:
Given that Kenya is not the first country to make such a move, I see no reason for M$ to spell doom, really.
Kenya can learn and borrow from those countries. I am sure M$ knows that there are countries already fully on FOSS.
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 9:15 PM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
Isnt it interesting that it is only closed source software vendors spelling doom and gloom?
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 7:34 PM, <awatila@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Last week, the Government issued a warning that in the next three years it will move its IT operations to Free and Open Source Software (FOSS), a move that will reduce cost by more than half in IT expenses.
http://www.standardmedia.co.**ke/?articleID=2000066158&** story_title=State-warned-on-**ditching-copyrighted-software<http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000066158&story_title=State-warned-on-ditching-copyrighted-software> ______________________________**_________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/**mailman/listinfo/skunkworks<http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks> ------------
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issue is Open Source is free but very few people know linux or mysql as well as the closed guys who know aix and oracel very well. IT does not matter, all that matters is how well one can support whatever they are deploying .... On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 10:21 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>wrote:
Given that Kenya is not the first country to make such a move, I see no reason for M$ to spell doom, really.
Kenya can learn and borrow from those countries. I am sure M$ knows that there are countries already fully on FOSS.
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 9:15 PM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
Isnt it interesting that it is only closed source software vendors spelling doom and gloom?
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 7:34 PM, <awatila@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Last week, the Government issued a warning that in the next three years it will move its IT operations to Free and Open Source Software (FOSS), a move that will reduce cost by more than half in IT expenses.
http://www.standardmedia.co.**ke/?articleID=2000066158&** story_title=State-warned-on-**ditching-copyrighted-software<http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000066158&story_title=State-warned-on-ditching-copyrighted-software> ______________________________**_________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/**mailman/listinfo/skunkworks<http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks> ------------
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Mark Mwangi
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All I see is opportunity. Am not anti Microsoft or any closed source software company. Painting open source software as insecure, unsupportable and almost unhygienic is not being realistic in my opinion. The reason there aren't many linux folk is because there is no demand for them. If the govt decided that everything on their systems (or at least most) would be foss then thats where the talent will gravitate. It starts with a stance though. On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 10:29 PM, Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> wrote:
issue is Open Source is free but very few people know linux or mysql as well as the closed guys who know aix and oracel very well.
IT does not matter, all that matters is how well one can support whatever they are deploying ....
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 10:21 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>wrote:
Given that Kenya is not the first country to make such a move, I see no reason for M$ to spell doom, really.
Kenya can learn and borrow from those countries. I am sure M$ knows that there are countries already fully on FOSS.
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 9:15 PM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
Isnt it interesting that it is only closed source software vendors spelling doom and gloom?
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 7:34 PM, <awatila@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Last week, the Government issued a warning that in the next three years it will move its IT operations to Free and Open Source Software (FOSS), a move that will reduce cost by more than half in IT expenses.
http://www.standardmedia.co.**ke/?articleID=2000066158&** story_title=State-warned-on-**ditching-copyrighted-software<http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000066158&story_title=State-warned-on-ditching-copyrighted-software> ______________________________**_________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/**mailman/listinfo/skunkworks<http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks> ------------
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Mark Mwangi
markmwangi.me.ke
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-- Regards, Mark Mwangi markmwangi.me.ke
These debates of open/closed source are pointless and juvenile, especially coming from veterans in the industry. Mwananchi does nor know nor care how things run, provided they a) Work and b) solve his problems. Can we at least get to that point before having these spurious arguments. Our police stations use counter books for records. Marriage registries use typewriters and box files. The city council and lands ministries are festooned with box files and papers. And we are here on ivory towers arguing over open vs closed source leaving fundamentals unaddressed! Pragmatic people have no need to resort to extremism. Just as there is room on roads for Mercedes S Class and Toyota Vitz I'm pretty sure there is room for Open and Closed Source software. As for the issue of cost - I encourage folks to look at it from an economics perspective. Cost and value are very different things. On Sunday, September 16, 2012, Mark Mwangi wrote:
All I see is opportunity. Am not anti Microsoft or any closed source software company. Painting open source software as insecure, unsupportable and almost unhygienic is not being realistic in my opinion.
The reason there aren't many linux folk is because there is no demand for them. If the govt decided that everything on their systems (or at least most) would be foss then thats where the talent will gravitate. It starts with a stance though.
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 10:29 PM, Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> wrote:
issue is Open Source is free but very few people know linux or mysql as well as the closed guys who know aix and oracel very well.
IT does not matter, all that matters is how well one can support whatever they are deploying ....
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 10:21 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>wrote:
Given that Kenya is not the first country to make such a move, I see no reason for M$ to spell doom, really.
Kenya can learn and borrow from those countries. I am sure M$ knows that there are countries already fully on FOSS.
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 9:15 PM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
Isnt it interesting that it is only closed source software vendors spelling doom and gloom?
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 7:34 PM, <awatila@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Last week, the Government issued a warning that in the next three years it will move its IT operations to Free and Open Source Software (FOSS), a move that will reduce cost by more than half in IT expenses.
http://www.standardmedia.co.**ke/?articleID=2000066158&** story_title=State-warned-on-**ditching-copyrighted-software<http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000066158&story_title=State-warned-on-ditching-copyrighted-software> ______________________________**_________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/**mailman/listinfo/skunkworks<http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks> ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/**viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94<http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94> ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards,
Mark Mwangi
markmwangi.me.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Conrad, this debate will not end any time soon and you can be sure its important. I am sure you would know how much money Microsoft alone mints in Kenya. With the threat of loss of market share, we do expect them to continue feeding us with half truths about what is important. I know what is important for me, and I also speak for the person who does not understand the issues, nor care about what software is running their solutions. Because I know something that they dont. You dont want us to believe that proprietary software has better value than open source, do you? What value? I have no doubt that all platforms must co-exist, at least to a certain extent. But it would be better to face the facts as they are as opposed to peddling cheap lies about security and vulnerabilities. I for one always have a problem with the Government using my tax money to buy closed source software, while at the same time spending the meagre forex resources that we have to fatten the wallets of developers in Redmond and Germany. The bargain here is that we are left with proprietary formats that tie us to companies that are not guaranteed to last the next 20 years, leave a lone 100 years. Did you know that Americans can't sell anything to (or visit) Cuba because of sanctions? What hapens if Mitt Romney (God Forbid) wakes up one morning and decides he does not like Kenya, and therefore we can't do business with the US? Or are we stuck with "good behaviour" so that we don't land in bad books with anyone, so that we can guarantee to run our economy with other people's technology? Where is the freedom there? The freedom that we refer to is not price, but the freedom to control how our software works, without having to depend on a handful of companies that control the source code, and if and when we can get bug fixes, so long as we behave ourselves. For individuals, its a matter of personal choice. But for our government, its a matter of freedom, foreign exchange, and developing local capacities. So its good that our government is finally getting the message, though unfortunately there is going to be some losers. Evans Ikua On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 11:32 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
These debates of open/closed source are pointless and juvenile, especially coming from veterans in the industry.
Mwananchi does nor know nor care how things run, provided they a) Work and b) solve his problems.
Can we at least get to that point before having these spurious arguments. Our police stations use counter books for records. Marriage registries use typewriters and box files. The city council and lands ministries are festooned with box files and papers.
And we are here on ivory towers arguing over open vs closed source leaving fundamentals unaddressed!
Pragmatic people have no need to resort to extremism. Just as there is room on roads for Mercedes S Class and Toyota Vitz I'm pretty sure there is room for Open and Closed Source software.
As for the issue of cost - I encourage folks to look at it from an economics perspective. Cost and value are very different things.
On Sunday, September 16, 2012, Mark Mwangi wrote:
All I see is opportunity. Am not anti Microsoft or any closed source software company. Painting open source software as insecure, unsupportable and almost unhygienic is not being realistic in my opinion.
The reason there aren't many linux folk is because there is no demand for them. If the govt decided that everything on their systems (or at least most) would be foss then thats where the talent will gravitate. It starts with a stance though.
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 10:29 PM, Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> wrote:
issue is Open Source is free but very few people know linux or mysql as well as the closed guys who know aix and oracel very well.
IT does not matter, all that matters is how well one can support whatever they are deploying ....
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 10:21 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com
wrote:
Given that Kenya is not the first country to make such a move, I see no reason for M$ to spell doom, really.
Kenya can learn and borrow from those countries. I am sure M$ knows that there are countries already fully on FOSS.
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 9:15 PM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
Isnt it interesting that it is only closed source software vendors spelling doom and gloom?
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 7:34 PM, <awatila@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Last week, the Government issued a warning that in the next three years it will move its IT operations to Free and Open Source Software (FOSS), a move that will reduce cost by more than half in IT expenses.
http://www.standardmedia.co.**ke/?articleID=2000066158&** story_title=State-warned-on-**ditching-copyrighted-software<http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000066158&story_title=State-warned-on-ditching-copyrighted-software> ______________________________**_________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/**mailman/listinfo/skunkworks<http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks> ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/**viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94<http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94> ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards,
Mark Mwangi
markmwangi.me.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- *---------------------------------------------------- Kind Regards, Evans Ikua,* lanetconsulting.com, lpi-eastafrica.org, ict-innovation.fossfa.net, Skype: @ikuae Cell: +254-722-955831
Evans, The lack of focus on problem solving by the Open Source community is the biggest problem actually. The Open Source community is by itself fragmented and lacking in a uniform voice. For example. If today the government said that they would be using only Open Source Operating Systems, you will get caught up in the classic desktop linux argument (Ubuntu vs Debian vs Redhat vs FreeBSD - KDE vs GNOME vs XFCE vs Unity etc). The user does not care. Unfortunately. I am a proponent of Open Source software (in Africa especially because of cost more than anything else), the problem is that the Open Source community has not gone out to create ecosystems that the likes of Microsoft have to make it easier to use their produce. Workshops should be conducted in Universities for say PostgreSQL to increase the size of the ecosystem, people are caught up with the philosophy and not the praxis. I don't agree with the hostility towards commercial software, it has it's benefits. Mostly, someone you can shoot if things go wrong. On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 10:23 AM, Evans Ikua <ikua.evans@gmail.com> wrote:
Conrad, this debate will not end any time soon and you can be sure its important. I am sure you would know how much money Microsoft alone mints in Kenya. With the threat of loss of market share, we do expect them to continue feeding us with half truths about what is important. I know what is important for me, and I also speak for the person who does not understand the issues, nor care about what software is running their solutions. Because I know something that they dont.
You dont want us to believe that proprietary software has better value than open source, do you? What value? I have no doubt that all platforms must co-exist, at least to a certain extent. But it would be better to face the facts as they are as opposed to peddling cheap lies about security and vulnerabilities. I for one always have a problem with the Government using my tax money to buy closed source software, while at the same time spending the meagre forex resources that we have to fatten the wallets of developers in Redmond and Germany. The bargain here is that we are left with proprietary formats that tie us to companies that are not guaranteed to last the next 20 years, leave a lone 100 years.
Did you know that Americans can't sell anything to (or visit) Cuba because of sanctions? What hapens if Mitt Romney (God Forbid) wakes up one morning and decides he does not like Kenya, and therefore we can't do business with the US? Or are we stuck with "good behaviour" so that we don't land in bad books with anyone, so that we can guarantee to run our economy with other people's technology? Where is the freedom there?
The freedom that we refer to is not price, but the freedom to control how our software works, without having to depend on a handful of companies that control the source code, and if and when we can get bug fixes, so long as we behave ourselves. For individuals, its a matter of personal choice. But for our government, its a matter of freedom, foreign exchange, and developing local capacities. So its good that our government is finally getting the message, though unfortunately there is going to be some losers.
Evans Ikua
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 11:32 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
These debates of open/closed source are pointless and juvenile, especially coming from veterans in the industry.
Mwananchi does nor know nor care how things run, provided they a) Work and b) solve his problems.
Can we at least get to that point before having these spurious arguments. Our police stations use counter books for records. Marriage registries use typewriters and box files. The city council and lands ministries are festooned with box files and papers.
And we are here on ivory towers arguing over open vs closed source leaving fundamentals unaddressed!
Pragmatic people have no need to resort to extremism. Just as there is room on roads for Mercedes S Class and Toyota Vitz I'm pretty sure there is room for Open and Closed Source software.
As for the issue of cost - I encourage folks to look at it from an economics perspective. Cost and value are very different things.
On Sunday, September 16, 2012, Mark Mwangi wrote:
All I see is opportunity. Am not anti Microsoft or any closed source software company. Painting open source software as insecure, unsupportable and almost unhygienic is not being realistic in my opinion.
The reason there aren't many linux folk is because there is no demand for them. If the govt decided that everything on their systems (or at least most) would be foss then thats where the talent will gravitate. It starts with a stance though.
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 10:29 PM, Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> wrote:
issue is Open Source is free but very few people know linux or mysql as well as the closed guys who know aix and oracel very well.
IT does not matter, all that matters is how well one can support whatever they are deploying ....
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 10:21 PM, Odhiambo Washington < odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:
Given that Kenya is not the first country to make such a move, I see no reason for M$ to spell doom, really.
Kenya can learn and borrow from those countries. I am sure M$ knows that there are countries already fully on FOSS.
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 9:15 PM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
Isnt it interesting that it is only closed source software vendors spelling doom and gloom?
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 7:34 PM, <awatila@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Last week, the Government issued a warning that in the next three years it will move its IT operations to Free and Open Source Software (FOSS), a move that will reduce cost by more than half in IT expenses.
http://www.standardmedia.co.**ke/?articleID=2000066158&** story_title=State-warned-on-**ditching-copyrighted-software<http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000066158&story_title=State-warned-on-ditching-copyrighted-software> ______________________________**_________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/**mailman/listinfo/skunkworks<http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks> ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/**viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94<http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94> ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards,
Mark Mwangi
markmwangi.me.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- *---------------------------------------------------- Kind Regards, Evans Ikua,* lanetconsulting.com, lpi-eastafrica.org, ict-innovation.fossfa.net, Skype: @ikuae Cell: +254-722-955831
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
What happens when the guy you want to shoot is long dead? On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 11:01 AM, Phares <phares.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Evans,
The lack of focus on problem solving by the Open Source community is the biggest problem actually. The Open Source community is by itself fragmented and lacking in a uniform voice. For example. If today the government said that they would be using only Open Source Operating Systems, you will get caught up in the classic desktop linux argument (Ubuntu vs Debian vs Redhat vs FreeBSD - KDE vs GNOME vs XFCE vs Unity etc). The user does not care. Unfortunately.
I am a proponent of Open Source software (in Africa especially because of cost more than anything else), the problem is that the Open Source community has not gone out to create ecosystems that the likes of Microsoft have to make it easier to use their produce. Workshops should be conducted in Universities for say PostgreSQL to increase the size of the ecosystem, people are caught up with the philosophy and not the praxis.
I don't agree with the hostility towards commercial software, it has it's benefits. Mostly, someone you can shoot if things go wrong.
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 10:23 AM, Evans Ikua <ikua.evans@gmail.com> wrote:
Conrad, this debate will not end any time soon and you can be sure its important. I am sure you would know how much money Microsoft alone mints in Kenya. With the threat of loss of market share, we do expect them to continue feeding us with half truths about what is important. I know what is important for me, and I also speak for the person who does not understand the issues, nor care about what software is running their solutions. Because I know something that they dont.
You dont want us to believe that proprietary software has better value than open source, do you? What value? I have no doubt that all platforms must co-exist, at least to a certain extent. But it would be better to face the facts as they are as opposed to peddling cheap lies about security and vulnerabilities. I for one always have a problem with the Government using my tax money to buy closed source software, while at the same time spending the meagre forex resources that we have to fatten the wallets of developers in Redmond and Germany. The bargain here is that we are left with proprietary formats that tie us to companies that are not guaranteed to last the next 20 years, leave a lone 100 years.
Did you know that Americans can't sell anything to (or visit) Cuba because of sanctions? What hapens if Mitt Romney (God Forbid) wakes up one morning and decides he does not like Kenya, and therefore we can't do business with the US? Or are we stuck with "good behaviour" so that we don't land in bad books with anyone, so that we can guarantee to run our economy with other people's technology? Where is the freedom there?
The freedom that we refer to is not price, but the freedom to control how our software works, without having to depend on a handful of companies that control the source code, and if and when we can get bug fixes, so long as we behave ourselves. For individuals, its a matter of personal choice. But for our government, its a matter of freedom, foreign exchange, and developing local capacities. So its good that our government is finally getting the message, though unfortunately there is going to be some losers.
Evans Ikua
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 11:32 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
These debates of open/closed source are pointless and juvenile, especially coming from veterans in the industry.
Mwananchi does nor know nor care how things run, provided they a) Work and b) solve his problems.
Can we at least get to that point before having these spurious arguments. Our police stations use counter books for records. Marriage registries use typewriters and box files. The city council and lands ministries are festooned with box files and papers.
And we are here on ivory towers arguing over open vs closed source leaving fundamentals unaddressed!
Pragmatic people have no need to resort to extremism. Just as there is room on roads for Mercedes S Class and Toyota Vitz I'm pretty sure there is room for Open and Closed Source software.
As for the issue of cost - I encourage folks to look at it from an economics perspective. Cost and value are very different things.
On Sunday, September 16, 2012, Mark Mwangi wrote:
All I see is opportunity. Am not anti Microsoft or any closed source software company. Painting open source software as insecure, unsupportable and almost unhygienic is not being realistic in my opinion.
The reason there aren't many linux folk is because there is no demand for them. If the govt decided that everything on their systems (or at least most) would be foss then thats where the talent will gravitate. It starts with a stance though.
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 10:29 PM, Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com>wrote:
issue is Open Source is free but very few people know linux or mysql as well as the closed guys who know aix and oracel very well.
IT does not matter, all that matters is how well one can support whatever they are deploying ....
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 10:21 PM, Odhiambo Washington < odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:
Given that Kenya is not the first country to make such a move, I see no reason for M$ to spell doom, really.
Kenya can learn and borrow from those countries. I am sure M$ knows that there are countries already fully on FOSS.
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 9:15 PM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
Isnt it interesting that it is only closed source software vendors spelling doom and gloom?
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 7:34 PM, <awatila@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Last week, the Government issued a warning that in the next three years it will move its IT operations to Free and Open Source Software (FOSS), a move that will reduce cost by more than half in IT expenses.
http://www.standardmedia.co.**ke/?articleID=2000066158&** story_title=State-warned-on-**ditching-copyrighted-software<http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000066158&story_title=State-warned-on-ditching-copyrighted-software> ______________________________**_________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/**mailman/listinfo/skunkworks<http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks> ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/**viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94<http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94> ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards,
Mark Mwangi
markmwangi.me.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- *---------------------------------------------------- Kind Regards, Evans Ikua,* lanetconsulting.com, lpi-eastafrica.org, ict-innovation.fossfa.net, Skype: @ikuae Cell: +254-722-955831
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- *---------------------------------------------------- Kind Regards, Evans Ikua,* lanetconsulting.com, lpi-eastafrica.org, ict-innovation.fossfa.net, Skype: @ikuae Cell: +254-722-955831
What happens when the ecosystem around a particular Open Source product collapses/stagnates? As a manufacturing outfit, I really don't want to hire a dev team... On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 11:04 AM, Evans Ikua <ikua.evans@gmail.com> wrote:
What happens when the guy you want to shoot is long dead?
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 11:01 AM, Phares <phares.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Evans,
The lack of focus on problem solving by the Open Source community is the biggest problem actually. The Open Source community is by itself fragmented and lacking in a uniform voice. For example. If today the government said that they would be using only Open Source Operating Systems, you will get caught up in the classic desktop linux argument (Ubuntu vs Debian vs Redhat vs FreeBSD - KDE vs GNOME vs XFCE vs Unity etc). The user does not care. Unfortunately.
I am a proponent of Open Source software (in Africa especially because of cost more than anything else), the problem is that the Open Source community has not gone out to create ecosystems that the likes of Microsoft have to make it easier to use their produce. Workshops should be conducted in Universities for say PostgreSQL to increase the size of the ecosystem, people are caught up with the philosophy and not the praxis.
I don't agree with the hostility towards commercial software, it has it's benefits. Mostly, someone you can shoot if things go wrong.
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 10:23 AM, Evans Ikua <ikua.evans@gmail.com>wrote:
Conrad, this debate will not end any time soon and you can be sure its important. I am sure you would know how much money Microsoft alone mints in Kenya. With the threat of loss of market share, we do expect them to continue feeding us with half truths about what is important. I know what is important for me, and I also speak for the person who does not understand the issues, nor care about what software is running their solutions. Because I know something that they dont.
You dont want us to believe that proprietary software has better value than open source, do you? What value? I have no doubt that all platforms must co-exist, at least to a certain extent. But it would be better to face the facts as they are as opposed to peddling cheap lies about security and vulnerabilities. I for one always have a problem with the Government using my tax money to buy closed source software, while at the same time spending the meagre forex resources that we have to fatten the wallets of developers in Redmond and Germany. The bargain here is that we are left with proprietary formats that tie us to companies that are not guaranteed to last the next 20 years, leave a lone 100 years.
Did you know that Americans can't sell anything to (or visit) Cuba because of sanctions? What hapens if Mitt Romney (God Forbid) wakes up one morning and decides he does not like Kenya, and therefore we can't do business with the US? Or are we stuck with "good behaviour" so that we don't land in bad books with anyone, so that we can guarantee to run our economy with other people's technology? Where is the freedom there?
The freedom that we refer to is not price, but the freedom to control how our software works, without having to depend on a handful of companies that control the source code, and if and when we can get bug fixes, so long as we behave ourselves. For individuals, its a matter of personal choice. But for our government, its a matter of freedom, foreign exchange, and developing local capacities. So its good that our government is finally getting the message, though unfortunately there is going to be some losers.
Evans Ikua
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 11:32 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
These debates of open/closed source are pointless and juvenile, especially coming from veterans in the industry.
Mwananchi does nor know nor care how things run, provided they a) Work and b) solve his problems.
Can we at least get to that point before having these spurious arguments. Our police stations use counter books for records. Marriage registries use typewriters and box files. The city council and lands ministries are festooned with box files and papers.
And we are here on ivory towers arguing over open vs closed source leaving fundamentals unaddressed!
Pragmatic people have no need to resort to extremism. Just as there is room on roads for Mercedes S Class and Toyota Vitz I'm pretty sure there is room for Open and Closed Source software.
As for the issue of cost - I encourage folks to look at it from an economics perspective. Cost and value are very different things.
On Sunday, September 16, 2012, Mark Mwangi wrote:
All I see is opportunity. Am not anti Microsoft or any closed source software company. Painting open source software as insecure, unsupportable and almost unhygienic is not being realistic in my opinion.
The reason there aren't many linux folk is because there is no demand for them. If the govt decided that everything on their systems (or at least most) would be foss then thats where the talent will gravitate. It starts with a stance though.
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 10:29 PM, Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com>wrote:
issue is Open Source is free but very few people know linux or mysql as well as the closed guys who know aix and oracel very well.
IT does not matter, all that matters is how well one can support whatever they are deploying ....
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 10:21 PM, Odhiambo Washington < odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:
Given that Kenya is not the first country to make such a move, I see no reason for M$ to spell doom, really.
Kenya can learn and borrow from those countries. I am sure M$ knows that there are countries already fully on FOSS.
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 9:15 PM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
Isnt it interesting that it is only closed source software vendors spelling doom and gloom?
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 7:34 PM, <awatila@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Last week, the Government issued a warning that in the next three years it will move its IT operations to Free and Open Source Software (FOSS), a move that will reduce cost by more than half in IT expenses.
http://www.standardmedia.co.**ke/?articleID=2000066158&** story_title=State-warned-on-**ditching-copyrighted-software<http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000066158&story_title=State-warned-on-ditching-copyrighted-software> ______________________________**_________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/**mailman/listinfo/skunkworks<http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks> ------------
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markmwangi.me.ke
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Phares, At least with open source you have the option to hire someone to maintain and fix bugs when the project collapses. When closed source proprietary software companies go belly up, the customers have no recourse at all. This has happened many, many times. On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 11:15 AM, Phares <phares.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
What happens when the ecosystem around a particular Open Source product collapses/stagnates? As a manufacturing outfit, I really don't want to hire a dev team...
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 11:04 AM, Evans Ikua <ikua.evans@gmail.com> wrote:
What happens when the guy you want to shoot is long dead?
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 11:01 AM, Phares <phares.kariuki@gmail.com>wrote:
Evans,
The lack of focus on problem solving by the Open Source community is the biggest problem actually. The Open Source community is by itself fragmented and lacking in a uniform voice. For example. If today the government said that they would be using only Open Source Operating Systems, you will get caught up in the classic desktop linux argument (Ubuntu vs Debian vs Redhat vs FreeBSD - KDE vs GNOME vs XFCE vs Unity etc). The user does not care. Unfortunately.
I am a proponent of Open Source software (in Africa especially because of cost more than anything else), the problem is that the Open Source community has not gone out to create ecosystems that the likes of Microsoft have to make it easier to use their produce. Workshops should be conducted in Universities for say PostgreSQL to increase the size of the ecosystem, people are caught up with the philosophy and not the praxis.
I don't agree with the hostility towards commercial software, it has it's benefits. Mostly, someone you can shoot if things go wrong.
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 10:23 AM, Evans Ikua <ikua.evans@gmail.com>wrote:
Conrad, this debate will not end any time soon and you can be sure its important. I am sure you would know how much money Microsoft alone mints in Kenya. With the threat of loss of market share, we do expect them to continue feeding us with half truths about what is important. I know what is important for me, and I also speak for the person who does not understand the issues, nor care about what software is running their solutions. Because I know something that they dont.
You dont want us to believe that proprietary software has better value than open source, do you? What value? I have no doubt that all platforms must co-exist, at least to a certain extent. But it would be better to face the facts as they are as opposed to peddling cheap lies about security and vulnerabilities. I for one always have a problem with the Government using my tax money to buy closed source software, while at the same time spending the meagre forex resources that we have to fatten the wallets of developers in Redmond and Germany. The bargain here is that we are left with proprietary formats that tie us to companies that are not guaranteed to last the next 20 years, leave a lone 100 years.
Did you know that Americans can't sell anything to (or visit) Cuba because of sanctions? What hapens if Mitt Romney (God Forbid) wakes up one morning and decides he does not like Kenya, and therefore we can't do business with the US? Or are we stuck with "good behaviour" so that we don't land in bad books with anyone, so that we can guarantee to run our economy with other people's technology? Where is the freedom there?
The freedom that we refer to is not price, but the freedom to control how our software works, without having to depend on a handful of companies that control the source code, and if and when we can get bug fixes, so long as we behave ourselves. For individuals, its a matter of personal choice. But for our government, its a matter of freedom, foreign exchange, and developing local capacities. So its good that our government is finally getting the message, though unfortunately there is going to be some losers.
Evans Ikua
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 11:32 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
These debates of open/closed source are pointless and juvenile, especially coming from veterans in the industry.
Mwananchi does nor know nor care how things run, provided they a) Work and b) solve his problems.
Can we at least get to that point before having these spurious arguments. Our police stations use counter books for records. Marriage registries use typewriters and box files. The city council and lands ministries are festooned with box files and papers.
And we are here on ivory towers arguing over open vs closed source leaving fundamentals unaddressed!
Pragmatic people have no need to resort to extremism. Just as there is room on roads for Mercedes S Class and Toyota Vitz I'm pretty sure there is room for Open and Closed Source software.
As for the issue of cost - I encourage folks to look at it from an economics perspective. Cost and value are very different things.
On Sunday, September 16, 2012, Mark Mwangi wrote:
All I see is opportunity. Am not anti Microsoft or any closed source software company. Painting open source software as insecure, unsupportable and almost unhygienic is not being realistic in my opinion.
The reason there aren't many linux folk is because there is no demand for them. If the govt decided that everything on their systems (or at least most) would be foss then thats where the talent will gravitate. It starts with a stance though.
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 10:29 PM, Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com>wrote:
issue is Open Source is free but very few people know linux or mysql as well as the closed guys who know aix and oracel very well.
IT does not matter, all that matters is how well one can support whatever they are deploying ....
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 10:21 PM, Odhiambo Washington < odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:
Given that Kenya is not the first country to make such a move, I see no reason for M$ to spell doom, really.
Kenya can learn and borrow from those countries. I am sure M$ knows that there are countries already fully on FOSS.
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 9:15 PM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com>wrote:
Isnt it interesting that it is only closed source software vendors spelling doom and gloom?
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 7:34 PM, <awatila@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Last week, the Government issued a warning that in the next three years it will move its IT operations to Free and Open Source Software (FOSS), a move that will reduce cost by more than half in IT expenses.
http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000066158&story_title=State-warne... _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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-- Regards,
Mark Mwangi
markmwangi.me.ke
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-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
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-- Regards Brian Ngure
As government migrates to opensource, I think one of the most important aspect to consider when implementing open source as a core business system is "project management skills" on the side of the client, maturity of the system and availability of support. The company to implement it should be able and available to offer support (probably throughout the life of the system)or better still train staff to sufficiently support it. Otherwise it might become a white elephant if implementation is not well structured. My thoughts James On 9/17/2012 11:15 AM, Phares wrote:
What happens when the ecosystem around a particular Open Source product collapses/stagnates? As a manufacturing outfit, I really don't want to hire a dev team...
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 11:04 AM, Evans Ikua <ikua.evans@gmail.com <mailto:ikua.evans@gmail.com>> wrote:
What happens when the guy you want to shoot is long dead?
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 11:01 AM, Phares <phares.kariuki@gmail.com <mailto:phares.kariuki@gmail.com>> wrote:
Evans,
The lack of focus on problem solving by the Open Source community is the biggest problem actually. The Open Source community is by itself fragmented and lacking in a uniform voice. For example. If today the government said that they would be using only Open Source Operating Systems, you will get caught up in the classic desktop linux argument (Ubuntu vs Debian vs Redhat vs FreeBSD - KDE vs GNOME vs XFCE vs Unity etc). The user does not care. Unfortunately.
I am a proponent of Open Source software (in Africa especially because of cost more than anything else), the problem is that the Open Source community has not gone out to create ecosystems that the likes of Microsoft have to make it easier to use their produce. Workshops should be conducted in Universities for say PostgreSQL to increase the size of the ecosystem, people are caught up with the philosophy and not the praxis.
I don't agree with the hostility towards commercial software, it has it's benefits. Mostly, someone you can shoot if things go wrong.
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 10:23 AM, Evans Ikua <ikua.evans@gmail.com <mailto:ikua.evans@gmail.com>> wrote:
Conrad, this debate will not end any time soon and you can be sure its important. I am sure you would know how much money Microsoft alone mints in Kenya. With the threat of loss of market share, we do expect them to continue feeding us with half truths about what is important. I know what is important for me, and I also speak for the person who does not understand the issues, nor care about what software is running their solutions. Because I know something that they dont.
You dont want us to believe that proprietary software has better value than open source, do you? What value? I have no doubt that all platforms must co-exist, at least to a certain extent. But it would be better to face the facts as they are as opposed to peddling cheap lies about security and vulnerabilities. I for one always have a problem with the Government using my tax money to buy closed source software, while at the same time spending the meagre forex resources that we have to fatten the wallets of developers in Redmond and Germany. The bargain here is that we are left with proprietary formats that tie us to companies that are not guaranteed to last the next 20 years, leave a lone 100 years.
Did you know that Americans can't sell anything to (or visit) Cuba because of sanctions? What hapens if Mitt Romney (God Forbid) wakes up one morning and decides he does not like Kenya, and therefore we can't do business with the US? Or are we stuck with "good behaviour" so that we don't land in bad books with anyone, so that we can guarantee to run our economy with other people's technology? Where is the freedom there?
The freedom that we refer to is not price, but the freedom to control how our software works, without having to depend on a handful of companies that control the source code, and if and when we can get bug fixes, so long as we behave ourselves. For individuals, its a matter of personal choice. But for our government, its a matter of freedom, foreign exchange, and developing local capacities. So its good that our government is finally getting the message, though unfortunately there is going to be some losers.
Evans Ikua
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 11:32 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com <mailto:conradakunga@gmail.com>> wrote:
These debates of open/closed source are pointless and juvenile, especially coming from veterans in the industry.
Mwananchi does nor know nor care how things run, provided they a) Work and b) solve his problems.
Can we at least get to that point before having these spurious arguments. Our police stations use counter books for records. Marriage registries use typewriters and box files. The city council and lands ministries are festooned with box files and papers.
And we are here on ivory towers arguing over open vs closed source leaving fundamentals unaddressed!
Pragmatic people have no need to resort to extremism. Just as there is room on roads for Mercedes S Class and Toyota Vitz I'm pretty sure there is room for Open and Closed Source software.
As for the issue of cost - I encourage folks to look at it from an economics perspective. Cost and value are very different things.
On Sunday, September 16, 2012, Mark Mwangi wrote:
All I see is opportunity. Am not anti Microsoft or any closed source software company. Painting open source software as insecure, unsupportable and almost unhygienic is not being realistic in my opinion.
The reason there aren't many linux folk is because there is no demand for them. If the govt decided that everything on their systems (or at least most) would be foss then thats where the talent will gravitate. It starts with a stance though.
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 10:29 PM, Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> wrote:
issue is Open Source is free but very few people know linux or mysql as well as the closed guys who know aix and oracel very well.
IT does not matter, all that matters is how well one can support whatever they are deploying ....
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 10:21 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:
Given that Kenya is not the first country to make such a move, I see no reason for M$ to spell doom, really.
Kenya can learn and borrow from those countries. I am sure M$ knows that there are countries already fully on FOSS.
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 9:15 PM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
Isnt it interesting that it is only closed source software vendors spelling doom and gloom?
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 7:34 PM, <awatila@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Last week, the Government issued a warning that in the next three years it will move its IT operations to Free and Open Source Software (FOSS), a move that will reduce cost by more than half in IT expenses.
http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000066158&story_title=State-warne...
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-- Regards,
Mark Mwangi
markmwangi.me.ke <http://markmwangi.me.ke>
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-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
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-- *---------------------------------------------------- Kind Regards, Evans Ikua,* lanetconsulting.com <http://lanetconsulting.com>, lpi-eastafrica.org <http://lpi-eastafrica.org>, ict-innovation.fossfa.net <http://ict-innovation.fossfa.net>, Skype: @ikuae Cell: +254-722-955831
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Hmm, Just read the standard Article and it had me cracking up. I wonder what Mr. Roy would have to say to this http://linux.slashdot.org/story/12/09/17/0153204/study-urges-cios-to-choose-... That said, there is a lot of risk aversion with corporations in Kenya when it come to making decisions on enterprise solutions and rather that take the position of pursuing a calculated risk by doing research and finding the optimal free open source solution if there is one and saving the company/institution millions , run to the nearest proprietary vendor, pay millions and are locked in for the next 10 years with a sub-optimal solution. While it's good to see the government making this shift, I agree with Odhiambo that they must take a sustainable and coherent approach in this transition to ensure they are successful, otherwise the Microsofts, SAPs and Oracles will be waiting in the wings to say "I told you so" and they would set back the adoption of open source coz of crappy implementation. On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 11:55 AM, James Kagwe <kagwejg@gmail.com> wrote:
As government migrates to opensource, I think one of the most important aspect to consider when implementing open source as a core business system is "project management skills" on the side of the client, maturity of the system and availability of support. The company to implement it should be able and available to offer support (probably throughout the life of the system)or better still train staff to sufficiently support it. Otherwise it might become a white elephant if implementation is not well structured.
My thoughts
James
On 9/17/2012 11:15 AM, Phares wrote:
What happens when the ecosystem around a particular Open Source product collapses/stagnates? As a manufacturing outfit, I really don't want to hire a dev team...
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 11:04 AM, Evans Ikua <ikua.evans@gmail.com> wrote:
What happens when the guy you want to shoot is long dead?
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 11:01 AM, Phares <phares.kariuki@gmail.com>wrote:
Evans,
The lack of focus on problem solving by the Open Source community is the biggest problem actually. The Open Source community is by itself fragmented and lacking in a uniform voice. For example. If today the government said that they would be using only Open Source Operating Systems, you will get caught up in the classic desktop linux argument (Ubuntu vs Debian vs Redhat vs FreeBSD - KDE vs GNOME vs XFCE vs Unity etc). The user does not care. Unfortunately.
I am a proponent of Open Source software (in Africa especially because of cost more than anything else), the problem is that the Open Source community has not gone out to create ecosystems that the likes of Microsoft have to make it easier to use their produce. Workshops should be conducted in Universities for say PostgreSQL to increase the size of the ecosystem, people are caught up with the philosophy and not the praxis.
I don't agree with the hostility towards commercial software, it has it's benefits. Mostly, someone you can shoot if things go wrong.
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 10:23 AM, Evans Ikua <ikua.evans@gmail.com>wrote:
Conrad, this debate will not end any time soon and you can be sure its important. I am sure you would know how much money Microsoft alone mints in Kenya. With the threat of loss of market share, we do expect them to continue feeding us with half truths about what is important. I know what is important for me, and I also speak for the person who does not understand the issues, nor care about what software is running their solutions. Because I know something that they dont.
You dont want us to believe that proprietary software has better value than open source, do you? What value? I have no doubt that all platforms must co-exist, at least to a certain extent. But it would be better to face the facts as they are as opposed to peddling cheap lies about security and vulnerabilities. I for one always have a problem with the Government using my tax money to buy closed source software, while at the same time spending the meagre forex resources that we have to fatten the wallets of developers in Redmond and Germany. The bargain here is that we are left with proprietary formats that tie us to companies that are not guaranteed to last the next 20 years, leave a lone 100 years.
Did you know that Americans can't sell anything to (or visit) Cuba because of sanctions? What hapens if Mitt Romney (God Forbid) wakes up one morning and decides he does not like Kenya, and therefore we can't do business with the US? Or are we stuck with "good behaviour" so that we don't land in bad books with anyone, so that we can guarantee to run our economy with other people's technology? Where is the freedom there?
The freedom that we refer to is not price, but the freedom to control how our software works, without having to depend on a handful of companies that control the source code, and if and when we can get bug fixes, so long as we behave ourselves. For individuals, its a matter of personal choice. But for our government, its a matter of freedom, foreign exchange, and developing local capacities. So its good that our government is finally getting the message, though unfortunately there is going to be some losers.
Evans Ikua
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 11:32 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
These debates of open/closed source are pointless and juvenile, especially coming from veterans in the industry.
Mwananchi does nor know nor care how things run, provided they a) Work and b) solve his problems.
Can we at least get to that point before having these spurious arguments. Our police stations use counter books for records. Marriage registries use typewriters and box files. The city council and lands ministries are festooned with box files and papers.
And we are here on ivory towers arguing over open vs closed source leaving fundamentals unaddressed!
Pragmatic people have no need to resort to extremism. Just as there is room on roads for Mercedes S Class and Toyota Vitz I'm pretty sure there is room for Open and Closed Source software.
As for the issue of cost - I encourage folks to look at it from an economics perspective. Cost and value are very different things.
On Sunday, September 16, 2012, Mark Mwangi wrote:
All I see is opportunity. Am not anti Microsoft or any closed source software company. Painting open source software as insecure, unsupportable and almost unhygienic is not being realistic in my opinion.
The reason there aren't many linux folk is because there is no demand for them. If the govt decided that everything on their systems (or at least most) would be foss then thats where the talent will gravitate. It starts with a stance though.
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 10:29 PM, Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com>wrote:
issue is Open Source is free but very few people know linux or mysql as well as the closed guys who know aix and oracel very well.
IT does not matter, all that matters is how well one can support whatever they are deploying ....
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 10:21 PM, Odhiambo Washington < odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:
Given that Kenya is not the first country to make such a move, I see no reason for M$ to spell doom, really.
Kenya can learn and borrow from those countries. I am sure M$ knows that there are countries already fully on FOSS.
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 9:15 PM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com>wrote:
Isnt it interesting that it is only closed source software vendors spelling doom and gloom?
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 7:34 PM, <awatila@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Last week, the Government issued a warning that in the next three years it will move its IT operations to Free and Open Source Software (FOSS), a move that will reduce cost by more than half in IT expenses.
http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000066158&story_title=State-warne... _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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I agree with Phares and Rad on this. In my Class in University we are forced to use archaic proprietary software because the licenses for the latest software could run the department for 3 months. All this is while we have capable open source software that does the same stuff. But the staff is either not willing or are stopped by University policy or something like that. We are too hang up on the philosophy and ignore the actual problem. I see government offices running windows 2000. Is there a reason the hardware cannot handle say Ubuntu? The focus becomes the tool used to fix the problem not the problem itself. On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 11:04 AM, Evans Ikua <ikua.evans@gmail.com> wrote:
What happens when the guy you want to shoot is long dead?
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 11:01 AM, Phares <phares.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Evans,
The lack of focus on problem solving by the Open Source community is the biggest problem actually. The Open Source community is by itself fragmented and lacking in a uniform voice. For example. If today the government said that they would be using only Open Source Operating Systems, you will get caught up in the classic desktop linux argument (Ubuntu vs Debian vs Redhat vs FreeBSD - KDE vs GNOME vs XFCE vs Unity etc). The user does not care. Unfortunately.
I am a proponent of Open Source software (in Africa especially because of cost more than anything else), the problem is that the Open Source community has not gone out to create ecosystems that the likes of Microsoft have to make it easier to use their produce. Workshops should be conducted in Universities for say PostgreSQL to increase the size of the ecosystem, people are caught up with the philosophy and not the praxis.
I don't agree with the hostility towards commercial software, it has it's benefits. Mostly, someone you can shoot if things go wrong.
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 10:23 AM, Evans Ikua <ikua.evans@gmail.com>wrote:
Conrad, this debate will not end any time soon and you can be sure its important. I am sure you would know how much money Microsoft alone mints in Kenya. With the threat of loss of market share, we do expect them to continue feeding us with half truths about what is important. I know what is important for me, and I also speak for the person who does not understand the issues, nor care about what software is running their solutions. Because I know something that they dont.
You dont want us to believe that proprietary software has better value than open source, do you? What value? I have no doubt that all platforms must co-exist, at least to a certain extent. But it would be better to face the facts as they are as opposed to peddling cheap lies about security and vulnerabilities. I for one always have a problem with the Government using my tax money to buy closed source software, while at the same time spending the meagre forex resources that we have to fatten the wallets of developers in Redmond and Germany. The bargain here is that we are left with proprietary formats that tie us to companies that are not guaranteed to last the next 20 years, leave a lone 100 years.
Did you know that Americans can't sell anything to (or visit) Cuba because of sanctions? What hapens if Mitt Romney (God Forbid) wakes up one morning and decides he does not like Kenya, and therefore we can't do business with the US? Or are we stuck with "good behaviour" so that we don't land in bad books with anyone, so that we can guarantee to run our economy with other people's technology? Where is the freedom there?
The freedom that we refer to is not price, but the freedom to control how our software works, without having to depend on a handful of companies that control the source code, and if and when we can get bug fixes, so long as we behave ourselves. For individuals, its a matter of personal choice. But for our government, its a matter of freedom, foreign exchange, and developing local capacities. So its good that our government is finally getting the message, though unfortunately there is going to be some losers.
Evans Ikua
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 11:32 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
These debates of open/closed source are pointless and juvenile, especially coming from veterans in the industry.
Mwananchi does nor know nor care how things run, provided they a) Work and b) solve his problems.
Can we at least get to that point before having these spurious arguments. Our police stations use counter books for records. Marriage registries use typewriters and box files. The city council and lands ministries are festooned with box files and papers.
And we are here on ivory towers arguing over open vs closed source leaving fundamentals unaddressed!
Pragmatic people have no need to resort to extremism. Just as there is room on roads for Mercedes S Class and Toyota Vitz I'm pretty sure there is room for Open and Closed Source software.
As for the issue of cost - I encourage folks to look at it from an economics perspective. Cost and value are very different things.
On Sunday, September 16, 2012, Mark Mwangi wrote:
All I see is opportunity. Am not anti Microsoft or any closed source software company. Painting open source software as insecure, unsupportable and almost unhygienic is not being realistic in my opinion.
The reason there aren't many linux folk is because there is no demand for them. If the govt decided that everything on their systems (or at least most) would be foss then thats where the talent will gravitate. It starts with a stance though.
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 10:29 PM, Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com>wrote:
issue is Open Source is free but very few people know linux or mysql as well as the closed guys who know aix and oracel very well.
IT does not matter, all that matters is how well one can support whatever they are deploying ....
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 10:21 PM, Odhiambo Washington < odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:
Given that Kenya is not the first country to make such a move, I see no reason for M$ to spell doom, really.
Kenya can learn and borrow from those countries. I am sure M$ knows that there are countries already fully on FOSS.
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 9:15 PM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
Isnt it interesting that it is only closed source software vendors spelling doom and gloom?
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 7:34 PM, <awatila@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Last week, the Government issued a warning that in the next three years it will move its IT operations to Free and Open Source Software (FOSS), a move that will reduce cost by more than half in IT expenses.
http://www.standardmedia.co.**ke/?articleID=2000066158&** story_title=State-warned-on-**ditching-copyrighted-software<http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000066158&story_title=State-warned-on-ditching-copyrighted-software> ______________________________**_________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/**mailman/listinfo/skunkworks<http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks> ------------
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Mark Mwangi
markmwangi.me.ke
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http://www.reddit.com/r/microsoft/comments/zzmih/fud_for_the_day_opensource_... On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 10:21 AM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree with Phares and Rad on this.
In my Class in University we are forced to use archaic proprietary software because the licenses for the latest software could run the department for 3 months. All this is while we have capable open source software that does the same stuff. But the staff is either not willing or are stopped by University policy or something like that.
We are too hang up on the philosophy and ignore the actual problem. I see government offices running windows 2000. Is there a reason the hardware cannot handle say Ubuntu? The focus becomes the tool used to fix the problem not the problem itself.
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 11:04 AM, Evans Ikua <ikua.evans@gmail.com> wrote:
What happens when the guy you want to shoot is long dead?
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 11:01 AM, Phares <phares.kariuki@gmail.com>wrote:
Evans,
The lack of focus on problem solving by the Open Source community is the biggest problem actually. The Open Source community is by itself fragmented and lacking in a uniform voice. For example. If today the government said that they would be using only Open Source Operating Systems, you will get caught up in the classic desktop linux argument (Ubuntu vs Debian vs Redhat vs FreeBSD - KDE vs GNOME vs XFCE vs Unity etc). The user does not care. Unfortunately.
I am a proponent of Open Source software (in Africa especially because of cost more than anything else), the problem is that the Open Source community has not gone out to create ecosystems that the likes of Microsoft have to make it easier to use their produce. Workshops should be conducted in Universities for say PostgreSQL to increase the size of the ecosystem, people are caught up with the philosophy and not the praxis.
I don't agree with the hostility towards commercial software, it has it's benefits. Mostly, someone you can shoot if things go wrong.
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 10:23 AM, Evans Ikua <ikua.evans@gmail.com>wrote:
Conrad, this debate will not end any time soon and you can be sure its important. I am sure you would know how much money Microsoft alone mints in Kenya. With the threat of loss of market share, we do expect them to continue feeding us with half truths about what is important. I know what is important for me, and I also speak for the person who does not understand the issues, nor care about what software is running their solutions. Because I know something that they dont.
You dont want us to believe that proprietary software has better value than open source, do you? What value? I have no doubt that all platforms must co-exist, at least to a certain extent. But it would be better to face the facts as they are as opposed to peddling cheap lies about security and vulnerabilities. I for one always have a problem with the Government using my tax money to buy closed source software, while at the same time spending the meagre forex resources that we have to fatten the wallets of developers in Redmond and Germany. The bargain here is that we are left with proprietary formats that tie us to companies that are not guaranteed to last the next 20 years, leave a lone 100 years.
Did you know that Americans can't sell anything to (or visit) Cuba because of sanctions? What hapens if Mitt Romney (God Forbid) wakes up one morning and decides he does not like Kenya, and therefore we can't do business with the US? Or are we stuck with "good behaviour" so that we don't land in bad books with anyone, so that we can guarantee to run our economy with other people's technology? Where is the freedom there?
The freedom that we refer to is not price, but the freedom to control how our software works, without having to depend on a handful of companies that control the source code, and if and when we can get bug fixes, so long as we behave ourselves. For individuals, its a matter of personal choice. But for our government, its a matter of freedom, foreign exchange, and developing local capacities. So its good that our government is finally getting the message, though unfortunately there is going to be some losers.
Evans Ikua
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 11:32 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
These debates of open/closed source are pointless and juvenile, especially coming from veterans in the industry.
Mwananchi does nor know nor care how things run, provided they a) Work and b) solve his problems.
Can we at least get to that point before having these spurious arguments. Our police stations use counter books for records. Marriage registries use typewriters and box files. The city council and lands ministries are festooned with box files and papers.
And we are here on ivory towers arguing over open vs closed source leaving fundamentals unaddressed!
Pragmatic people have no need to resort to extremism. Just as there is room on roads for Mercedes S Class and Toyota Vitz I'm pretty sure there is room for Open and Closed Source software.
As for the issue of cost - I encourage folks to look at it from an economics perspective. Cost and value are very different things.
On Sunday, September 16, 2012, Mark Mwangi wrote:
All I see is opportunity. Am not anti Microsoft or any closed source software company. Painting open source software as insecure, unsupportable and almost unhygienic is not being realistic in my opinion.
The reason there aren't many linux folk is because there is no demand for them. If the govt decided that everything on their systems (or at least most) would be foss then thats where the talent will gravitate. It starts with a stance though.
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 10:29 PM, Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com>wrote:
issue is Open Source is free but very few people know linux or mysql as well as the closed guys who know aix and oracel very well.
IT does not matter, all that matters is how well one can support whatever they are deploying ....
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 10:21 PM, Odhiambo Washington < odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:
Given that Kenya is not the first country to make such a move, I see no reason for M$ to spell doom, really.
Kenya can learn and borrow from those countries. I am sure M$ knows that there are countries already fully on FOSS.
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 9:15 PM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com>wrote:
Isnt it interesting that it is only closed source software vendors spelling doom and gloom?
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 7:34 PM, <awatila@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Last week, the Government issued a warning that in the next three years it will move its IT operations to Free and Open Source Software (FOSS), a move that will reduce cost by more than half in IT expenses.
http://www.standardmedia.co.**ke/?articleID=2000066158&** story_title=State-warned-on-**ditching-copyrighted-software<http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000066158&story_title=State-warned-on-ditching-copyrighted-software> ______________________________**_________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/**mailman/listinfo/skunkworks<http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks> ------------
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-- Regards,
Mark Mwangi
markmwangi.me.ke
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markmwangi.me.ke
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The govt being what it is, I must say all we are doing now is just yapping! First, I'd love to have someone define "the govt" when it comes to ICT. That is simple enough. I only need to be told what the govt runs on the Desktop. That is simple enough to address, even if there is AD involved, which I highly doubt. Kate Getao can then explain to us her vision on migration to FOSS. That way, we can look at it from two angles: Is it that the govt wants to change the Desktop OS to FOSS or even the back-end servers? It is simple enough, but is likely to be shrouded in bureaucracy and such like arguments as we are now seeing! On the Desktop, a user requires an Office Suite and a Printer - at most. The rest has to do with security architecture in place. On the server, a user requires just an interface to the back-end. I don't see anything hard in this as long as we know what the govt runs in the back-end and whether it is platform independent - if they thought that out before hand! My simplistic view. On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 11:21 AM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree with Phares and Rad on this.
In my Class in University we are forced to use archaic proprietary software because the licenses for the latest software could run the department for 3 months. All this is while we have capable open source software that does the same stuff. But the staff is either not willing or are stopped by University policy or something like that.
We are too hang up on the philosophy and ignore the actual problem. I see government offices running windows 2000. Is there a reason the hardware cannot handle say Ubuntu? The focus becomes the tool used to fix the problem not the problem itself.
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 11:04 AM, Evans Ikua <ikua.evans@gmail.com> wrote:
What happens when the guy you want to shoot is long dead?
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 11:01 AM, Phares <phares.kariuki@gmail.com>wrote:
Evans,
The lack of focus on problem solving by the Open Source community is the biggest problem actually. The Open Source community is by itself fragmented and lacking in a uniform voice. For example. If today the government said that they would be using only Open Source Operating Systems, you will get caught up in the classic desktop linux argument (Ubuntu vs Debian vs Redhat vs FreeBSD - KDE vs GNOME vs XFCE vs Unity etc). The user does not care. Unfortunately.
I am a proponent of Open Source software (in Africa especially because of cost more than anything else), the problem is that the Open Source community has not gone out to create ecosystems that the likes of Microsoft have to make it easier to use their produce. Workshops should be conducted in Universities for say PostgreSQL to increase the size of the ecosystem, people are caught up with the philosophy and not the praxis.
I don't agree with the hostility towards commercial software, it has it's benefits. Mostly, someone you can shoot if things go wrong.
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 10:23 AM, Evans Ikua <ikua.evans@gmail.com>wrote:
Conrad, this debate will not end any time soon and you can be sure its important. I am sure you would know how much money Microsoft alone mints in Kenya. With the threat of loss of market share, we do expect them to continue feeding us with half truths about what is important. I know what is important for me, and I also speak for the person who does not understand the issues, nor care about what software is running their solutions. Because I know something that they dont.
You dont want us to believe that proprietary software has better value than open source, do you? What value? I have no doubt that all platforms must co-exist, at least to a certain extent. But it would be better to face the facts as they are as opposed to peddling cheap lies about security and vulnerabilities. I for one always have a problem with the Government using my tax money to buy closed source software, while at the same time spending the meagre forex resources that we have to fatten the wallets of developers in Redmond and Germany. The bargain here is that we are left with proprietary formats that tie us to companies that are not guaranteed to last the next 20 years, leave a lone 100 years.
Did you know that Americans can't sell anything to (or visit) Cuba because of sanctions? What hapens if Mitt Romney (God Forbid) wakes up one morning and decides he does not like Kenya, and therefore we can't do business with the US? Or are we stuck with "good behaviour" so that we don't land in bad books with anyone, so that we can guarantee to run our economy with other people's technology? Where is the freedom there?
The freedom that we refer to is not price, but the freedom to control how our software works, without having to depend on a handful of companies that control the source code, and if and when we can get bug fixes, so long as we behave ourselves. For individuals, its a matter of personal choice. But for our government, its a matter of freedom, foreign exchange, and developing local capacities. So its good that our government is finally getting the message, though unfortunately there is going to be some losers.
Evans Ikua
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 11:32 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
These debates of open/closed source are pointless and juvenile, especially coming from veterans in the industry.
Mwananchi does nor know nor care how things run, provided they a) Work and b) solve his problems.
Can we at least get to that point before having these spurious arguments. Our police stations use counter books for records. Marriage registries use typewriters and box files. The city council and lands ministries are festooned with box files and papers.
And we are here on ivory towers arguing over open vs closed source leaving fundamentals unaddressed!
Pragmatic people have no need to resort to extremism. Just as there is room on roads for Mercedes S Class and Toyota Vitz I'm pretty sure there is room for Open and Closed Source software.
As for the issue of cost - I encourage folks to look at it from an economics perspective. Cost and value are very different things.
On Sunday, September 16, 2012, Mark Mwangi wrote:
All I see is opportunity. Am not anti Microsoft or any closed source software company. Painting open source software as insecure, unsupportable and almost unhygienic is not being realistic in my opinion.
The reason there aren't many linux folk is because there is no demand for them. If the govt decided that everything on their systems (or at least most) would be foss then thats where the talent will gravitate. It starts with a stance though.
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 10:29 PM, Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com>wrote:
issue is Open Source is free but very few people know linux or mysql as well as the closed guys who know aix and oracel very well.
IT does not matter, all that matters is how well one can support whatever they are deploying ....
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 10:21 PM, Odhiambo Washington < odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:
Given that Kenya is not the first country to make such a move, I see no reason for M$ to spell doom, really.
Kenya can learn and borrow from those countries. I am sure M$ knows that there are countries already fully on FOSS.
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 9:15 PM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com>wrote:
Isnt it interesting that it is only closed source software vendors spelling doom and gloom?
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 7:34 PM, <awatila@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Last week, the Government issued a warning that in the next three years it will move its IT operations to Free and Open Source Software (FOSS), a move that will reduce cost by more than half in IT expenses.
http://www.standardmedia.co.**ke/?articleID=2000066158&** story_title=State-warned-on-**ditching-copyrighted-software<http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000066158&story_title=State-warned-on-ditching-copyrighted-software> ______________________________**_________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/**mailman/listinfo/skunkworks<http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks> ------------
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-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
Carefully read what I said Evans. I have not said either has more value than the other. What I am agains is both sides - open and closed - peddling FUD about the other and we are yet to resolve basic issues. Why must it be exclusively one or the other? I'm very sure opportunities exist for everyone. My day to day machine is a Mac. In which I run a windows and a Linux virtual machine. Each of which does a fantastic job serving my many requirements. I feel pretty sure this is the best solution to our problems - pragmatism On Monday, September 17, 2012, Evans Ikua wrote:
Conrad, this debate will not end any time soon and you can be sure its important. I am sure you would know how much money Microsoft alone mints in Kenya. With the threat of loss of market share, we do expect them to continue feeding us with half truths about what is important. I know what is important for me, and I also speak for the person who does not understand the issues, nor care about what software is running their solutions. Because I know something that they dont.
You dont want us to believe that proprietary software has better value than open source, do you? What value? I have no doubt that all platforms must co-exist, at least to a certain extent. But it would be better to face the facts as they are as opposed to peddling cheap lies about security and vulnerabilities. I for one always have a problem with the Government using my tax money to buy closed source software, while at the same time spending the meagre forex resources that we have to fatten the wallets of developers in Redmond and Germany. The bargain here is that we are left with proprietary formats that tie us to companies that are not guaranteed to last the next 20 years, leave a lone 100 years.
Did you know that Americans can't sell anything to (or visit) Cuba because of sanctions? What hapens if Mitt Romney (God Forbid) wakes up one morning and decides he does not like Kenya, and therefore we can't do business with the US? Or are we stuck with "good behaviour" so that we don't land in bad books with anyone, so that we can guarantee to run our economy with other people's technology? Where is the freedom there?
The freedom that we refer to is not price, but the freedom to control how our software works, without having to depend on a handful of companies that control the source code, and if and when we can get bug fixes, so long as we behave ourselves. For individuals, its a matter of personal choice. But for our government, its a matter of freedom, foreign exchange, and developing local capacities. So its good that our government is finally getting the message, though unfortunately there is going to be some losers.
Evans Ikua
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 11:32 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
These debates of open/closed source are pointless and juvenile, especially coming from veterans in the industry.
Mwananchi does nor know nor care how things run, provided they a) Work and b) solve his problems.
Can we at least get to that point before having these spurious arguments. Our police stations use counter books for records. Marriage registries use typewriters and box files. The city council and lands ministries are festooned with box files and papers.
And we are here on ivory towers arguing over open vs closed source leaving fundamentals unaddressed!
Pragmatic people have no need to resort to extremism. Just as there is room on roads for Mercedes S Class and Toyota Vitz I'm pretty sure there is room for Open and Closed Source software.
As for the issue of cost - I encourage folks to look at it from an economics perspective. Cost and value are very different things.
On Sunday, September 16, 2012, Mark Mwangi wrote:
All I see is opportunity. Am not anti Microsoft or any closed source software company. Painting open source software as insecure, unsupportable and almost unhygienic is not being realistic in my opinion.
The reason there aren't many linux folk is because there is no demand for them. If the govt decided that everything on their systems (or at least most) would be foss then thats where the talent will gravitate. It starts with a stance though.
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 10:29 PM, Agosta Liko <agostal@gmail.com> wrote:
issue is Open Source is free but very few people know linux or mysql as well as the closed guys who know aix and oracel very well.
IT does not matter, all that matters is how well one can support whatever they are deploying ....
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 10:21 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>wrote:
Given that Kenya is not the first country to make such a move, I see no reason for M$ to spell doom, really.
Kenya can learn and borrow from those countries. I am sure M$ knows that there are countries already fully on FOSS.
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 9:15 PM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
Isnt it interesting that it is only closed source software vendors spelling doom and gloom?
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 7:34 PM, <awatila@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Last week, the Government issued a warning that in the next three years it will move its IT operations to Free and Open Source Software (FOSS), a move that will reduce cost by more than half in IT expenses.
http://www.standardmedia.co.**ke/?articleID=2000066158&** story_title=State-warned-on-**ditching-copyrighted-software<http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000066158&story_title=State-warned-on-ditching-copyrighted-software> ______________________________**_________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/**mailman/listinfo/skunkworks<http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks> ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/**viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94<http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94> ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards,
Mark Mwangi
markmwangi.me.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe<
*---------------------------------------------------- Kind Regards, Evans Ikua,* lanetconsulting.com, lpi-eastafrica.org, ict-innovation.fossfa.net, Skype: @ikuae Cell: +254-722-955831
participants (18)
-
Agosta Liko -
awatila＠yahoo.co.uk -
Brian Ngure -
charles kungu -
Collins Areba -
Evans Ikua -
Frankline Chitwa -
James Kagwe -
Kenneth Njendu -
Laban Mwangi -
Mark Mwangi -
MotoBaridi -
Odhiambo Washington -
Phares -
Rad! -
Samuel Wachira -
Stephen Wanjau -
Steve Muchai