There is an on-going discussion on the kictanet list about proposals to completely ban used computers. IMHO, I'm against the ban and the excuses about e-waste or otherwise do not justify a complete ban on used computers. The used computer market has to supplement the new machines market. As an example, about 3 years ago , I wanted a server to do some test deployment before going on a new system. I bought an old compaq server from Evans company, though have never met him. The compaq server helped me quite alot and ran well for about 2 years before it outlived its function so I gave it to a friend who used it to do his test deployment. All I'm saying, without the option to buy a cheaper server, my test project would not have seen any attempt as getting a new one was not a priority. In a lot of ways, the used computer market has helped many kenyans get IT skills, and there was a time when clones used to dominate the end user market as larger names were only interested in corporate markets. I personally feel that we should not forget the used computer market, how it has helped and made it possible for many. I'm sure it has helped plenty on this list too. I think we need to show some support to the used computer market by echoing our concerns about such a ban. I hope Evans can make a very strong case against the proposed ban. Is there anyone on this list who has benefited from used computers, share you thoughts. ( BTW, I'm not an importer of such equipment etc. Am just sharing my views on this list ). Me thots. Rgds.
If used computers were banned, my first PC would NOT have been an extremely old Pentium 2, 233MHz with 128MB of RAM and onto which I crammed windows XP, Linux and a WAMP server; and this was in 2005! Got it for 11k. I "donated" it to a good cause soon after. Used computers have their niche, but the danger of e-waste is real. Maybe they can implement an age restriction like they do on cars. On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:25 PM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
There is an on-going discussion on the kictanet list about proposals to completely ban used computers. IMHO, I'm against the ban and the excuses about e-waste or otherwise do not justify a complete ban on used computers. The used computer market has to supplement the new machines market. As an example, about 3 years ago , I wanted a server to do some test deployment before going on a new system. I bought an old compaq server from Evans company, though have never met him. The compaq server helped me quite alot and ran well for about 2 years before it outlived its function so I gave it to a friend who used it to do his test deployment.
All I'm saying, without the option to buy a cheaper server, my test project would not have seen any attempt as getting a new one was not a priority. In a lot of ways, the used computer market has helped many kenyans get IT skills, and there was a time when clones used to dominate the end user market as larger names were only interested in corporate markets. I personally feel that we should not forget the used computer market, how it has helped and made it possible for many. I'm sure it has helped plenty on this list too. I think we need to show some support to the used computer market by echoing our concerns about such a ban.
I hope Evans can make a very strong case against the proposed ban. Is there anyone on this list who has benefited from used computers, share you thoughts. ( BTW, I'm not an importer of such equipment etc. Am just sharing my views on this list ).
Me thots.
Rgds.
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Thanks Aki for your comments about used computers. We are pushing hard on this and we already have an appointment with the PS this Friday. I am sure we will be able to convince him to reconsider his position. According to communication with him so far, all is not lost. He has made it very clear that it is just a consideration they have, they have not made the decision yet. So what we will do is ask him to consider regulating the trade in used computers instead of a total ban. for example they can ban the importation of P1s etc :-D Evans On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 10:58 AM, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com> wrote:
If used computers were banned, my first PC would NOT have been an extremely old Pentium 2, 233MHz with 128MB of RAM and onto which I crammed windows XP, Linux and a WAMP server; and this was in 2005! Got it for 11k.
I "donated" it to a good cause soon after.
Used computers have their niche, but the danger of e-waste is real. Maybe they can implement an age restriction like they do on cars.
On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:25 PM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
There is an on-going discussion on the kictanet list about proposals to completely ban used computers. IMHO, I'm against the ban and the excuses about e-waste or otherwise do not justify a complete ban on used computers. The used computer market has to supplement the new machines market. As an example, about 3 years ago , I wanted a server to do some test deployment before going on a new system. I bought an old compaq server from Evans company, though have never met him. The compaq server helped me quite alot and ran well for about 2 years before it outlived its function so I gave it to a friend who used it to do his test deployment.
All I'm saying, without the option to buy a cheaper server, my test project would not have seen any attempt as getting a new one was not a priority. In a lot of ways, the used computer market has helped many kenyans get IT skills, and there was a time when clones used to dominate the end user market as larger names were only interested in corporate markets. I personally feel that we should not forget the used computer market, how it has helped and made it possible for many. I'm sure it has helped plenty on this list too. I think we need to show some support to the used computer market by echoing our concerns about such a ban.
I hope Evans can make a very strong case against the proposed ban. Is there anyone on this list who has benefited from used computers, share you thoughts. ( BTW, I'm not an importer of such equipment etc. Am just sharing my views on this list ).
Me thots.
Rgds.
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What I think should be banned is CRT monitors and computers that are below certain specifications. At this point, I think it is torture for someone to own a Pentium III. Even as an ICT consultant, I will pass down any calls to fix any issue on a PIII. its not worth the trouble.
IMO, @Dennis, remember that Open Source like FreeBSD/Linux can run on any low spec machines. If these low spec machines can be turned into eg a basic utility such a a word processor,internet service then these machines serve a basic and important function. Back in 1986 when I got my 286 machine, it served well for a few years including running a database. The next 2 years it was the Amstrad Word Processor... For us in ICT, the low end machines maybe a nightmare but please ask any kenyan earning a wage around 30k per month, what can they afford? What we need to do is to find a way to churn out say Open Source on the low end machines to ensure that almost many kenyans have access to computers and at throw away prices or even free. Somehow there has to be a model to help someone to get access to a computer even if they earn quite low. They have kids who go to schools and have access to computers. How do the kids do their computer related homework? Go to to cyber? Are we saying that Open Source has failed? @Evans, great news that the ban is for now just a thought. At the moment I can offer no solution to the situation but will oppose any ban quite aggressively. Incase you do setup an online petition, count on mine as the first NAY! Rgds. Me thots. On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 8:46 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
What I think should be banned is CRT monitors and computers that are below certain specifications. At this point, I think it is torture for someone to own a Pentium III. Even as an ICT consultant, I will pass down any calls to fix any issue on a PIII. its not worth the trouble. _______________________________________________
the problem is how many people will use open source with it. Most will try to pirate windows. Furthermore, i think we have a ready supply to fulfill geeks needs for old computers, without importing more. If we follow such an argument, we will continue been on this Wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_waste#Hotspots
Opponents of surplus electronics exports argue that lower environmental and labor standards, cheap labor, and the relatively high value of recovered raw materials leads to a transfer of pollution-generating activities, such as burning of copper wire. In China, Malaysia, India, Kenya, and various African countries, electronic waste is being sent to these countries for processing, sometimes illegally. Many surplus laptops are routed to developing nations <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developing_nation> as "dumping grounds for e-waste".[2]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_waste#cite_note-tmc-1> Because the United States has not ratified the Basel Convention<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basel_Convention> or its Ban Amendment<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basel_Convention#Basel_Ban_Amendment>, and has no domestic laws forbidding the export of toxic waste, the Basel Action Network <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basel_Action_Network> estimates that about 80% of the electronic waste directed to recycling in the U.S. does not get recycled there at all, but is put on container ships<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Container_ship> and sent to countries such as China.[9]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_waste#cite_note-harm-8> [14] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_waste#cite_note-13>[15]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_waste#cite_note-14> [16] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_waste#cite_note-ng-15> This figure is disputed as an exaggeration by the EPA, the Institute for Scrap Recycling Industries, and the World Reuse, Repair and Recycling Association<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Reuse,_Repair_and_Recycling_Association> .
Consider Cheap PC options like ACER. On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 10:38 PM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
IMO,
@Dennis, remember that Open Source like FreeBSD/Linux can run on any low spec machines. If these low spec machines can be turned into eg a basic utility such a a word processor,internet service then these machines serve a basic and important function. Back in 1986 when I got my 286 machine, it served well for a few years including running a database. The next 2 years it was the Amstrad Word Processor... For us in ICT, the low end machines maybe a nightmare but please ask any kenyan earning a wage around 30k per month, what can they afford? What we need to do is to find a way to churn out say Open Source on the low end machines to ensure that almost many kenyans have access to computers and at throw away prices or even free. Somehow there has to be a model to help someone to get access to a computer even if they earn quite low. They have kids who go to schools and have access to computers. How do the kids do their computer related homework? Go to to cyber? Are we saying that Open Source has failed?
@Evans, great news that the ban is for now just a thought. At the moment I can offer no solution to the situation but will oppose any ban quite aggressively. Incase you do setup an online petition, count on mine as the first NAY!
Rgds.
Me thots.
On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 8:46 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
What I think should be banned is CRT monitors and computers that are below certain specifications. At this point, I think it is torture for someone to own a Pentium III. Even as an ICT consultant, I will pass down any calls to fix any issue on a PIII. its not worth the trouble. _______________________________________________
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@Aki, no offence but that sounds like asking the price of a toyota...there are so many models :) On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 11:07 AM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
@Alvin, price for a full system ?
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 10:51 AM, Alvin Jason Ochieng <ajochola@gmail.com>wrote:
Consider Cheap PC options like ACER.
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How cheap is cheap? How much does an Acer go for, or a Mecer for that matter. Then ask yourself how many can afford that? In my view, clones are not the solution because they die faster than used computers. The thing is to regulate what we import, and work on managing our e-waste. There are many other electronics that are imported almost as junk. Yet I know that there are also computers that are brought in that are junk. That is clearly what we don't need. Ikua On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 10:51 AM, Alvin Jason Ochieng <ajochola@gmail.com>wrote:
Consider Cheap PC options like ACER.
On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 10:38 PM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
IMO,
@Dennis, remember that Open Source like FreeBSD/Linux can run on any low spec machines. If these low spec machines can be turned into eg a basic utility such a a word processor,internet service then these machines serve a basic and important function. Back in 1986 when I got my 286 machine, it served well for a few years including running a database. The next 2 years it was the Amstrad Word Processor... For us in ICT, the low end machines maybe a nightmare but please ask any kenyan earning a wage around 30k per month, what can they afford? What we need to do is to find a way to churn out say Open Source on the low end machines to ensure that almost many kenyans have access to computers and at throw away prices or even free. Somehow there has to be a model to help someone to get access to a computer even if they earn quite low. They have kids who go to schools and have access to computers. How do the kids do their computer related homework? Go to to cyber? Are we saying that Open Source has failed?
@Evans, great news that the ban is for now just a thought. At the moment I can offer no solution to the situation but will oppose any ban quite aggressively. Incase you do setup an online petition, count on mine as the first NAY!
Rgds.
Me thots.
On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 8:46 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
What I think should be banned is CRT monitors and computers that are
below
certain specifications. At this point, I think it is torture for someone to own a Pentium III. Even as an ICT consultant, I will pass down any calls to fix any issue on a PIII. its not worth the trouble. _______________________________________________
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------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
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Another point we need to consider is that unlike cars, computers are rated as junk based more on their relative computing power than their physical age. For example if you went for a top of the line Alienware system 3 years ago you'd still be giving enough people a run for their money with their machines which are fresh from the box today. The relative age is also based on functionality...i.e. I would only consider upgrading or trading in my machine for a better one if it can't handle my applications. At that point, thats when it's considered old. Just my 2 cents... On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 11:10 AM, Evans Ikua <ikua.evans@gmail.com> wrote:
How cheap is cheap? How much does an Acer go for, or a Mecer for that matter. Then ask yourself how many can afford that?
In my view, clones are not the solution because they die faster than used computers. The thing is to regulate what we import, and work on managing our e-waste. There are many other electronics that are imported almost as junk. Yet I know that there are also computers that are brought in that are junk. That is clearly what we don't need.
Ikua
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 10:51 AM, Alvin Jason Ochieng <ajochola@gmail.com>wrote:
Consider Cheap PC options like ACER.
On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 10:38 PM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
IMO,
@Dennis, remember that Open Source like FreeBSD/Linux can run on any low spec machines. If these low spec machines can be turned into eg a basic utility such a a word processor,internet service then these machines serve a basic and important function. Back in 1986 when I got my 286 machine, it served well for a few years including running a database. The next 2 years it was the Amstrad Word Processor... For us in ICT, the low end machines maybe a nightmare but please ask any kenyan earning a wage around 30k per month, what can they afford? What we need to do is to find a way to churn out say Open Source on the low end machines to ensure that almost many kenyans have access to computers and at throw away prices or even free. Somehow there has to be a model to help someone to get access to a computer even if they earn quite low. They have kids who go to schools and have access to computers. How do the kids do their computer related homework? Go to to cyber? Are we saying that Open Source has failed?
@Evans, great news that the ban is for now just a thought. At the moment I can offer no solution to the situation but will oppose any ban quite aggressively. Incase you do setup an online petition, count on mine as the first NAY!
Rgds.
Me thots.
On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 8:46 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
What I think should be banned is CRT monitors and computers that are
below
certain specifications. At this point, I think it is torture for someone to own a Pentium III. Even as an ICT consultant, I will pass down any calls to fix any issue on a PIII. its not worth the trouble. _______________________________________________
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
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------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
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On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:25 PM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
There is an on-going discussion on the kictanet list about proposals to completely ban used computers. IMHO, I'm against the ban and the excuses about e-waste or otherwise do not justify a complete ban on used computers. The used computer market has to supplement the new machines market.
Its a bit ridiculous to ban used computers citing pollution and e-waste when the country allows importation of used cars (upto 8 years old). how about the pollution caused by 8 year old engines and the resulting scrap recycling and pollution costs when you have put down the car ?
On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:25 PM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
There is an on-going discussion on the kictanet list about proposals to completely ban used computers. IMHO, I'm against the ban and the excuses about e-waste or otherwise do not justify a complete ban on used computers. The used computer market has to supplement the new machines market. As an example, about 3 years ago , I wanted a server to do some test deployment before going on a new system. I bought an old compaq server from Evans company, though have never met him. The compaq server helped me quite alot and ran well for about 2 years before it outlived its function so I gave it to a friend who used it to do his test deployment.
All I'm saying, without the option to buy a cheaper server, my test project would not have seen any attempt as getting a new one was not a priority. In a lot of ways, the used computer market has helped many kenyans get IT skills, and there was a time when clones used to dominate the end user market as larger names were only interested in corporate markets. I personally feel that we should not forget the used computer market, how it has helped and made it possible for many. I'm sure it has helped plenty on this list too. I think we need to show some support to the used computer market by echoing our concerns about such a ban.
I hope Evans can make a very strong case against the proposed ban. Is there anyone on this list who has benefited from used computers, share you thoughts. ( BTW, I'm not an importer of such equipment etc. Am just sharing my views on this list ).
Me thots.
Rgds.
Isn't reuse one of the strategies for managing waste? Banning old computers completely doesn't make sense. What the government needs to do is to set up a regulation regime, so that the eventual recycling and disposal phases can be done safely. This may include imposing a special duty on older imports nearing their end of life, and making sure that this money goes towards recycling plants. Recycling and disposal plants could actually generate jobs and profit for us in the third world. You can find more at the following Wikipedia entry: < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waste_hierarchy>. Joseph.
participants (8)
-
aki -
Alvin Jason Ochieng -
ashok+skunkworks＠parliaments.info -
Dennis Kioko -
Evans Ikua -
Haggai Nyang -
Joseph Wayodi -
Peter Karunyu