Re: [Skunkworks] General Engineering/Physics Question
Around high voltage is magnetic field that make the RFs out of tune. That could tune you to something like + or - 0.3. This is worse when its windy, raining, in a moving car in those areas... The optimist sees the doughnut; the pessimist the hole. --- On Thu, 5/14/09, David Kago <kago@ultimate-security.net> wrote: From: David Kago <kago@ultimate-security.net> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] General Engineering/Physics Question To: "Skunkworks forum" <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Date: Thursday, May 14, 2009, 6:54 AM The frequency of electricity is not high enough to cause gene mutations, gamma rays and x-rays would coz of their high freq From: wesley kiriinya [mailto:kiriinya2000@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 4:44 PM To: Skunkworks forum Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] General Engineering/Physics Question Probably not otherwise guys working in a power station would wear protective gear, after all that's where all the mega watts are generated. Plants and animals near the power plant or directly below high voltage transmission lines would also be strange e.g. have mutations. --- On Thu, 5/14/09, Paul Njoroge <njorogekamau@gmail.com> wrote: From: Paul Njoroge <njorogekamau@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] General Engineering/Physics Question To: "Skunkworks forum" <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Date: Thursday, May 14, 2009, 11:07 AM What of the engineers working at Kindaruma, Ol Karia and Turkwell?? On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Joram Mwinamo <joram.mwinamo@gmail.com> wrote: So if you frequently pass below the power lines or near it every day,are you at risk of getting kids with issues?Ive watched such a movie.......where people living below power lines got kids with issues.... On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:55 AM, MotoBaridi <motobaridi@gmail.com> wrote: prolly because the radio freqs and the transformer freqs are much closer on the spectrum, so its easier for them to interfere with each other. light, otoh, is much further away from the other two, hence no interference...... On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:51 AM, Simon Mbuthia <simon.mbuthia@gmail.com> wrote: The magnetic field theory does sound likely... and it's most prolly the reason why (still agree with you Peter) but if the magnetic field be the reason why, then that gives us a second question: why isn't light affected since light is also on the EM spectrum? PS: I'm no physicist either Me. On 14/05/2009, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com> wrote:
Or it could be the church. Both locations seem to be near some KPLC high voltage thingy, AND a church. Could it be possible that strong spirit activity going on inside the church is interfering with the radio
frequencies.
Spirit activity has been known to
block out the sun for 3 hours, at one time
in the past :-)
On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:08 AM, Alex Nderitu <nderitualex@gmail.com>wrote:
Am no physics guru but I think it has to do with some magnetic fields
distorting the radio frequencies.
-----Original Message-----
From: Josiah Mugambi <jmugambi@gmail.com>
Reply-to: Skunkworks forum <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke>
To: Skunkworks forum <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke>
Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] General Engineering/Physics Question
Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 10:04:43 +0300
The same thing happens just after miotoni road on Ngong Road before St Francis Church where there is a power station..
On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:01 AM, Paul Njoroge <njorogekamau@gmail.com>
wrote:
Guys I have an engineering/physics query,
I have noted that in the morning on Mombasa road, coming towards
town, somewhere at South C near the ICC church and the river, the car radio usually loses its signals, I know it could be due
to the nearby KPLC transformers but I cant really explain why
and its been bothering me.
Anyone?
P.N.
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-- שִׁמְעוֹן _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Skunkworks announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general -- ------------------------------ <MotoBaridi, incoherently mumbling to self since 1981> ------------------------------ T: +254 722 296 184 , +254 732 296 654 E: motobaridi@motobaridi.com W: www.unmappedafrica.com | www.motobaridi.com | www.mosc.motobaridi.com | www.moto.motobaridi.com | www.motobaridi.blogspot.com _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Skunkworks announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general -- Sent from my Watch© Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others. _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Skunkworks announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Skunkworks announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Skunkworks announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general
if you saw the fields and attenuation caused on RF by metalic objects on a spectrum analyzer, its a freak show with waves sweeping across the low end spectrum. metalic objects can behave as low pass or high pass filters, depending on surface area, angle of approach and the usual deflection back. anything near or passing in these fields is bombarded with AC field varying but the power output will temporarily kill any comms device including shielded ones that. Point of impact on device is antenne or parabolic dish and the wavelength changes thus cancelling out itself. Its as good as not having an antenne or parabolic dish. ( remembering the old days ) :-)
Every time we have a changing electric quantity (voltage or current), we get harmonics (sinusoidal frequencies) generated at multiples of the fundamental frequency (in our case this would be 50Hz). These multiples ideally go up infinitely. As the frequency of the harmonic increases, its amplitude decreases. Therefore, at your house or office, where your fundamental frequency is at 240 volts, the harmonic at 98.4 MHz, or 105.2 MHz would have too little an amplitude to affect your radio. Near a sub-station however, where the fundamental frequency is at 11 kV, 33 kV or 66 kV, the amplitude of the harmonics at the FM radio band, ie your Capital FMs, KISS FMs etc, would be significantly large. Your car radio will thus pick them up when tuned to 98.4 MHz and mix them with the clean signal from Capital. This harmonic will be delivered to your car speakers as noise. On Thu, 2009-05-14 at 23:10 +0300, aki wrote:
if you saw the fields and attenuation caused on RF by metalic objects on a spectrum analyzer, its a freak show with waves sweeping across the low end spectrum. metalic objects can behave as low pass or high pass filters, depending on surface area, angle of approach and the usual deflection back. anything near or passing in these fields is bombarded with AC field varying but the power output will temporarily kill any comms device including shielded ones that. Point of impact on device is antenne or parabolic dish and the wavelength changes thus cancelling out itself. Its as good as not having an antenne or parabolic dish. ( remembering the old days ) :-)
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Skunkworks announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general -- Davis Waithaka Maina Business Development Manager Systems Kenya Solutions 4th Fl. KCB Building Enterprise Rd., Nairobi www.systemskenya.com
BTW, when we say multiples of the fundamental frequency, we mean there will be harmonics, a.k.a noise from the kplc substation at 100 Hz, 150 Hz, 200 Hz, ........ 96300000 Hz (Eazy), .... 98400000 Hz (Capital), .... 10520000 Hz (Classic) etc all the way up to infinity. But the amplitude of this noise reduces as the frequency increases. Remember, this noise is everywhere around us, especially in urban areas, but the amplitude (magnitude) is key in determining its significance On Fri, 2009-05-15 at 10:14 +0300, Davis Waithaka wrote:
Every time we have a changing electric quantity (voltage or current), we get harmonics (sinusoidal frequencies) generated at multiples of the fundamental frequency (in our case this would be 50Hz). These multiples ideally go up infinitely.
As the frequency of the harmonic increases, its amplitude decreases. Therefore, at your house or office, where your fundamental frequency is at 240 volts, the harmonic at 98.4 MHz, or 105.2 MHz would have too little an amplitude to affect your radio.
Near a sub-station however, where the fundamental frequency is at 11 kV, 33 kV or 66 kV, the amplitude of the harmonics at the FM radio band, ie your Capital FMs, KISS FMs etc, would be significantly large. Your car radio will thus pick them up when tuned to 98.4 MHz and mix them with the clean signal from Capital. This harmonic will be delivered to your car speakers as noise.
On Thu, 2009-05-14 at 23:10 +0300, aki wrote:
if you saw the fields and attenuation caused on RF by metalic objects on a spectrum analyzer, its a freak show with waves sweeping across the low end spectrum. metalic objects can behave as low pass or high pass filters, depending on surface area, angle of approach and the usual deflection back. anything near or passing in these fields is bombarded with AC field varying but the power output will temporarily kill any comms device including shielded ones that. Point of impact on device is antenne or parabolic dish and the wavelength changes thus cancelling out itself. Its as good as not having an antenne or parabolic dish. ( remembering the old days ) :-)
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Skunkworks announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general -- Davis Waithaka Maina Business Development Manager Systems Kenya Solutions 4th Fl. KCB Building Enterprise Rd., Nairobi www.systemskenya.com +254 721 305 374
Well put Davis... ;-) 2009/5/15 Davis Waithaka <daviswaithaka@gmail.com>
BTW, when we say multiples of the fundamental frequency, we mean there will be harmonics, a.k.a noise from the kplc substation at 100 Hz, 150 Hz, 200 Hz, ........ 96300000 Hz (Eazy), .... 98400000 Hz (Capital), .... 10520000 Hz (Classic) etc all the way up to infinity.
But the amplitude of this noise reduces as the frequency increases. Remember, this noise is everywhere around us, especially in urban areas, but the amplitude (magnitude) is key in determining its significance
On Fri, 2009-05-15 at 10:14 +0300, Davis Waithaka wrote:
Every time we have a changing electric quantity (voltage or current), we get harmonics (sinusoidal frequencies) generated at multiples of the fundamental frequency (in our case this would be 50Hz). These multiples ideally go up infinitely.
As the frequency of the harmonic increases, its amplitude decreases. Therefore, at your house or office, where your fundamental frequency is at 240 volts, the harmonic at 98.4 MHz, or 105.2 MHz would have too little an amplitude to affect your radio.
Near a sub-station however, where the fundamental frequency is at 11 kV, 33 kV or 66 kV, the amplitude of the harmonics at the FM radio band, ie your Capital FMs, KISS FMs etc, would be significantly large. Your car radio will thus pick them up when tuned to 98.4 MHz and mix them with the clean signal from Capital. This harmonic will be delivered to your car speakers as noise.
On Thu, 2009-05-14 at 23:10 +0300, aki wrote:
if you saw the fields and attenuation caused on RF by metalic objects on a spectrum analyzer, its a freak show with waves sweeping across the low end spectrum. metalic objects can behave as low pass or high pass filters, depending on surface area, angle of approach and the usual deflection back. anything near or passing in these fields is bombarded with AC field varying but the power output will temporarily kill any comms device including shielded ones that. Point of impact on device is antenne or parabolic dish and the wavelength changes thus cancelling out itself. Its as good as not having an antenne or parabolic dish. ( remembering the old days ) :-)
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Skunkworks announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general -- Davis Waithaka Maina Business Development Manager Systems Kenya Solutions 4th Fl. KCB Building Enterprise Rd., Nairobi www.systemskenya.com +254 721 305 374
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davis nice one. I think we should also include "air" capacitance as the carrier medium responsible for harmonics at different wavelengths which ends up as noise? I remember this one though it may sound funny :-). On old TV's and radios when no station is tuned ( on Tvs I think it was called raster ) , before the self mute system was developed, we could hear the universe noise. True ama false? I think Marconi was first to realize this? I've not googled so maybe out dated.
Brilliant explanation Davis. Reminds me of the vehicle USB MP3 player (with the FM modulator), interesting how everyone around the device(in traffic) is forced to listen to the user's playlist, it gives all the interference 12V can give. On 5/15/09, Davis Waithaka <daviswaithaka@gmail.com> wrote:
BTW, when we say multiples of the fundamental frequency, we mean there will be harmonics, a.k.a noise from the kplc substation at 100 Hz, 150 Hz, 200 Hz, ........ 96300000 Hz (Eazy), .... 98400000 Hz (Capital), .... 10520000 Hz (Classic) etc all the way up to infinity.
But the amplitude of this noise reduces as the frequency increases. Remember, this noise is everywhere around us, especially in urban areas, but the amplitude (magnitude) is key in determining its significance
On Fri, 2009-05-15 at 10:14 +0300, Davis Waithaka wrote:
Every time we have a changing electric quantity (voltage or current), we get harmonics (sinusoidal frequencies) generated at multiples of the fundamental frequency (in our case this would be 50Hz). These multiples ideally go up infinitely.
As the frequency of the harmonic increases, its amplitude decreases. Therefore, at your house or office, where your fundamental frequency is at 240 volts, the harmonic at 98.4 MHz, or 105.2 MHz would have too little an amplitude to affect your radio.
Near a sub-station however, where the fundamental frequency is at 11 kV, 33 kV or 66 kV, the amplitude of the harmonics at the FM radio band, ie your Capital FMs, KISS FMs etc, would be significantly large. Your car radio will thus pick them up when tuned to 98.4 MHz and mix them with the clean signal from Capital. This harmonic will be delivered to your car speakers as noise.
On Thu, 2009-05-14 at 23:10 +0300, aki wrote:
if you saw the fields and attenuation caused on RF by metalic objects on a spectrum analyzer, its a freak show with waves sweeping across the low end spectrum. metalic objects can behave as low pass or high pass filters, depending on surface area, angle of approach and the usual deflection back. anything near or passing in these fields is bombarded with AC field varying but the power output will temporarily kill any comms device including shielded ones that. Point of impact on device is antenne or parabolic dish and the wavelength changes thus cancelling out itself. Its as good as not having an antenne or parabolic dish. ( remembering the old days ) :-)
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Skunkworks announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general -- Davis Waithaka Maina Business Development Manager Systems Kenya Solutions 4th Fl. KCB Building Enterprise Rd., Nairobi www.systemskenya.com +254 721 305 374
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dude, talking of FM mods I built one from scratch including capacitance/inductance in early 80's when kenya electronics on moi avenue had an RS catalogue. the transistors were expensive then. The neighbour who would not turn down the volume on his Fm radio in the night got a taste of a square wave modulation centered on his favourite FM frequency! lol! ;-) On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Patrick Kariuki <patrick.kariuki@gmail.com
wrote:
Brilliant explanation Davis.
Reminds me of the vehicle USB MP3 player (with the FM modulator), interesting how everyone around the device(in traffic) is forced to listen to the user's playlist, it gives all the interference 12V can give.
Lol! Aki... I bet you can now make a cell phone jammer - antenna (for sending the signal), the circuitry (voltage-controlled oscillator, tuning circuit, noise generator and RF amplification) and the power supply (battery) or buy one on ebay for just $55 :-) On 5/15/09, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
dude, talking of FM mods I built one from scratch including capacitance/inductance in early 80's when kenya electronics on moi avenue had an RS catalogue. the transistors were expensive then. The neighbour who would not turn down the volume on his Fm radio in the night got a taste of a square wave modulation centered on his favourite FM frequency! lol! ;-)
On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Patrick Kariuki <patrick.kariuki@gmail.com
wrote:
Brilliant explanation Davis.
Reminds me of the vehicle USB MP3 player (with the FM modulator), interesting how everyone around the device(in traffic) is forced to listen to the user's playlist, it gives all the interference 12V can give.
:) I made the fm mod from complete scratch. only the nf capacitors, 2 transistors and Ne 555 chip were purchased. after a few days of cals got my frequecies and power levels correct. etched it on a board, soldered things up and tuned the antenne. it achieved its purpose. everyone slept peacefully thereafter. " strangely " there was magic in the air.. lol! I'd not have time to do these things now. one of these days, I'll bore you guys with minor stories about designing a channelized antenne project that never took off ( when ktn 62 came around in 1990 ), designing TVRO sat dishes which was not commercial and including trying to understand the old kbc 2 encryption using a 10mhz ( obsolete ) oscilloscope. The good old days of late nights and a passion to discover..... :-)
ok. I think I had one of those moments too... trying to get a VHF-only TV work with the UHF band... Cable TV converter's were rare and expensive - if only I had a photo of the converter's circuitry then, I'd enjoy watching TV from 1PM. On 5/15/09, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
:) I made the fm mod from complete scratch. only the nf capacitors, 2 transistors and Ne 555 chip were purchased. after a few days of cals got my frequecies and power levels correct. etched it on a board, soldered things up and tuned the antenne. it achieved its purpose. everyone slept peacefully thereafter. " strangely " there was magic in the air.. lol! I'd not have time to do these things now. one of these days, I'll bore you guys with minor stories about designing a channelized antenne project that never took off ( when ktn 62 came around in 1990 ), designing TVRO sat dishes which was not commercial and including trying to understand the old kbc 2 encryption using a 10mhz ( obsolete ) oscilloscope. The good old days of late nights and a passion to discover..... :-)
@Aki: wicked!!! too fresh! Had to abandon such a project in campus due to expense of components ( and not much spare time :) [ pesky neighbours showing off HELB-funded hi-fi system!, would have gotten a dose of sawtooth modulation! muhahahha! ] On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 1:07 PM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
dude, talking of FM mods I built one from scratch including capacitance/inductance in early 80's when kenya electronics on moi avenue had an RS catalogue. the transistors were expensive then. The neighbour who would not turn down the volume on his Fm radio in the night got a taste of a square wave modulation centered on his favourite FM frequency! lol! ;-)
On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Patrick Kariuki < patrick.kariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Brilliant explanation Davis.
Reminds me of the vehicle USB MP3 player (with the FM modulator), interesting how everyone around the device(in traffic) is forced to listen to the user's playlist, it gives all the interference 12V can give.
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participants (6)
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aki -
Davis Waithaka -
Michael Kamunge -
Oj G -
Patrick Kariuki -
Watson Kambo