Seriously, Shouldn't we be paying cheaper for bandwidth? Isnt there anything we can do to change this? If bandwidth costs dont go lower, how do we compete with India?
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 5:46 PM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com> wrote:
Seriously,
Shouldn't we be paying cheaper for bandwidth? Isnt there anything we can do to change this? If bandwidth costs dont go lower, how do we compete with India?
Bernard, Unless we carry placards with "HAKI YETU!! HAKI YETU!!", this is a pipe dream in KE. I recently saw some discussion in another forum where they said why the costs are not getting down. I think it's on KICTANet. -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Damn!!
Maybe we should talk to one who will agree to lower costs then we all move our business to them... Perhaps we should ask the Government to control data prices :-) Wash, there has to be a way. On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 5:48 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>wrote:
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 5:46 PM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com> wrote:
Seriously,
Shouldn't we be paying cheaper for bandwidth? Isnt there anything we can do to change this? If bandwidth costs dont go lower, how do we compete with India?
Bernard,
Unless we carry placards with "HAKI YETU!! HAKI YETU!!", this is a pipe dream in KE. I recently saw some discussion in another forum where they said why the costs are not getting down. I think it's on KICTANet.
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Damn!!
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Bernard, I wonder if there is an Internet Users Association of Kenya? If it was there it could engage with Govt and ISP's to lower the costs through collective bargaining power and advocacy. If it was big enough (members) it could buy an ISP! I'm sure they are some that are struggling.. -----Original Message----- From: bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com> Reply-to: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] LOWER BANDWIDTH COSTS Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 17:57:54 +0300 Maybe we should talk to one who will agree to lower costs then we all move our business to them... Perhaps we should ask the Government to control data prices :-) Wash, there has to be a way. On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 5:48 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote: On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 5:46 PM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com> wrote: Seriously, Shouldn't we be paying cheaper for bandwidth? Isnt there anything we can do to change this? If bandwidth costs dont go lower, how do we compete with India? Bernard, Unless we carry placards with "HAKI YETU!! HAKI YETU!!", this is a pipe dream in KE. I recently saw some discussion in another forum where they said why the costs are not getting down. I think it's on KICTANet. -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Damn!! _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke -- Regards, Joe Murithi Njeru Linux User: #361092 SIP: joe.njeru@ekiga.net Twitter: http://twitter.com/joenjeru Blog: http://www.joenjeru.com
@Murithi, If there were such associations and maybe Mobile Phone Users Association, we cold gang up and buy Safcom too!! I would be glad to be the Chairman of such.....and buy shares too!! But wait, I wouldn't then want safcom to reduce their tariffs in these price wars...because it wouldn't make good profits, biz sense to allow me make substantial dividends out of my shares!! Its a crazy world! :-D :-) On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 6:05 PM, Joe Murithi Njeru <joe.njeru@gmail.com>wrote:
Bernard,
I wonder if there is an Internet Users Association of Kenya? If it was there it could engage with Govt and ISP's to lower the costs through collective bargaining power and advocacy.
If it was big enough (members) it could buy an ISP! I'm sure they are some that are struggling..
-----Original Message----- From: bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com> Reply-to: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] LOWER BANDWIDTH COSTS Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 17:57:54 +0300
Maybe we should talk to one who will agree to lower costs then we all move our business to them...
Perhaps we should ask the Government to control data prices :-)
Wash, there has to be a way.
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 5:48 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 5:46 PM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com> wrote: Seriously,
Shouldn't we be paying cheaper for bandwidth? Isnt there anything we can do to change this? If bandwidth costs dont go lower, how do we compete with India?
Bernard,
Unless we carry placards with "HAKI YETU!! HAKI YETU!!", this is a pipe dream in KE. I recently saw some discussion in another forum where they said why the costs are not getting down. I think it's on KICTANet.
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Damn!!
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-- Regards,
Joe Murithi Njeru Linux User: #361092 SIP: joe.njeru@ekiga.net Twitter: http://twitter.com/joenjeru Blog: http://www.joenjeru.com
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-- Regards, Greg -------- Life is not a rehearsal, you only live once!
Greg, avoid that like of thinking....thats how Kenya got to where we were during the previous presidency (am withholding a name).... On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 6:44 PM, Gregory Okoth <gregory.okoth@gmail.com>wrote:
@Murithi, If there were such associations and maybe Mobile Phone Users Association, we cold gang up and buy Safcom too!! I would be glad to be the Chairman of such.....and buy shares too!! But wait, I wouldn't then want safcom to reduce their tariffs in these price wars...because it wouldn't make good profits, biz sense to allow me make substantial dividends out of my shares!! Its a crazy world! :-D :-)
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 6:05 PM, Joe Murithi Njeru <joe.njeru@gmail.com>wrote:
Bernard,
I wonder if there is an Internet Users Association of Kenya? If it was there it could engage with Govt and ISP's to lower the costs through collective bargaining power and advocacy.
If it was big enough (members) it could buy an ISP! I'm sure they are some that are struggling..
-----Original Message----- From: bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com> Reply-to: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] LOWER BANDWIDTH COSTS Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 17:57:54 +0300
Maybe we should talk to one who will agree to lower costs then we all move our business to them...
Perhaps we should ask the Government to control data prices :-)
Wash, there has to be a way.
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 5:48 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 5:46 PM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com> wrote: Seriously,
Shouldn't we be paying cheaper for bandwidth? Isnt there anything we can do to change this? If bandwidth costs dont go lower, how do we compete with India?
Bernard,
Unless we carry placards with "HAKI YETU!! HAKI YETU!!", this is a pipe dream in KE. I recently saw some discussion in another forum where they said why the costs are not getting down. I think it's on KICTANet.
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Damn!!
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-- Regards,
Joe Murithi Njeru Linux User: #361092 SIP: joe.njeru@ekiga.net Twitter: http://twitter.com/joenjeru Blog: http://www.joenjeru.com
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-- Regards, Greg -------- Life is not a rehearsal, you only live once!
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He he , Good one Gregory.. I didn't see that angle.. :-) I'm looking at the Matatu Owners Association MOA where they bought an insurance company to ensure their members get adequate and inexpensive insurance.... -----Original Message----- From: Gregory Okoth <gregory.okoth@gmail.com> To: joe.njeru@gmail.com, Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] LOWER BANDWIDTH COSTS Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 18:44:27 +0300 @Murithi, If there were such associations and maybe Mobile Phone Users Association, we cold gang up and buy Safcom too!! I would be glad to be the Chairman of such.....and buy shares too!! But wait, I wouldn't then want safcom to reduce their tariffs in these price wars...because it wouldn't make good profits, biz sense to allow me make substantial dividends out of my shares!! Its a crazy world! :-D :-) On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 6:05 PM, Joe Murithi Njeru <joe.njeru@gmail.com> wrote: Bernard, I wonder if there is an Internet Users Association of Kenya? If it was there it could engage with Govt and ISP's to lower the costs through collective bargaining power and advocacy. If it was big enough (members) it could buy an ISP! I'm sure they are some that are struggling.. -----Original Message----- From: bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com> Reply-to: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] LOWER BANDWIDTH COSTS Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 17:57:54 +0300 Maybe we should talk to one who will agree to lower costs then we all move our business to them... Perhaps we should ask the Government to control data prices :-) Wash, there has to be a way. On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 5:48 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote: On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 5:46 PM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com> wrote: Seriously, Shouldn't we be paying cheaper for bandwidth? Isnt there anything we can do to change this? If bandwidth costs dont go lower, how do we compete with India? Bernard, Unless we carry placards with "HAKI YETU!! HAKI YETU!!", this is a pipe dream in KE. I recently saw some discussion in another forum where they said why the costs are not getting down. I think it's on KICTANet. -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Damn!! _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke -- Regards, Joe Murithi Njeru Linux User: #361092 SIP: joe.njeru@ekiga.net Twitter: http://twitter.com/joenjeru Blog: http://www.joenjeru.com _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke -- Regards, Greg -------- Life is not a rehearsal, you only live once! -- Regards, Joe Murithi Njeru Linux User: #361092 SIP: joe.njeru@ekiga.net Twitter: http://twitter.com/joenjeru Blog: http://www.joenjeru.com
Note the difference, they bought the Insurance company and kept rates favourable....not hiked them for the chairman and team to rake in cash... Anyway.... guys, think of ways we can pressure for bandwidth costs to go down....maybe we can buy part of the government share in the fibre(s) On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 6:59 PM, Joe Murithi Njeru <joe.njeru@gmail.com>wrote:
He he ,
Good one Gregory.. I didn't see that angle.. :-)
I'm looking at the Matatu Owners Association MOA where they bought an insurance company to ensure their members get adequate and inexpensive insurance....
-----Original Message----- From: Gregory Okoth <gregory.okoth@gmail.com> To: joe.njeru@gmail.com, Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] LOWER BANDWIDTH COSTS Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 18:44:27 +0300
@Murithi,
If there were such associations and maybe Mobile Phone Users Association, we cold gang up and buy Safcom too!! I would be glad to be the Chairman of such.....and buy shares too!! But wait, I wouldn't then want safcom to reduce their tariffs in these price wars...because it wouldn't make good profits, biz sense to allow me make substantial dividends out of my shares!! Its a crazy world! :-D :-)
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 6:05 PM, Joe Murithi Njeru <joe.njeru@gmail.com> wrote: Bernard,
I wonder if there is an Internet Users Association of Kenya? If it was there it could engage with Govt and ISP's to lower the costs through collective bargaining power and advocacy.
If it was big enough (members) it could buy an ISP! I'm sure they are some that are struggling..
-----Original Message----- From: bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com> Reply-to: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] LOWER BANDWIDTH COSTS Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 17:57:54 +0300
Maybe we should talk to one who will agree to lower costs then we all move our business to them...
Perhaps we should ask the Government to control data prices :-)
Wash, there has to be a way.
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 5:48 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 5:46 PM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com> wrote: Seriously,
Shouldn't we be paying cheaper for bandwidth? Isnt there anything we can do to change this? If bandwidth costs dont go lower, how do we compete with India?
Bernard,
Unless we carry placards with "HAKI YETU!! HAKI YETU!!", this is a pipe dream in KE. I recently saw some discussion in another forum where they said why the costs are not getting down. I think it's on KICTANet.
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Damn!!
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-- Regards,
Joe Murithi Njeru Linux User: #361092 SIP: joe.njeru@ekiga.net Twitter: http://twitter.com/joenjeru Blog: http://www.joenjeru.com
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-- Regards, Greg -------- Life is not a rehearsal, you only live once!
-- Regards,
Joe Murithi Njeru Linux User: #361092 SIP: joe.njeru@ekiga.net Twitter: http://twitter.com/joenjeru Blog: http://www.joenjeru.com
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On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 5:57 PM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com> wrote:
Maybe we should talk to one who will agree to lower costs then we all move our business to them...
Perhaps we should ask the Government to control data prices :-)
Wash, there has to be a way.
Reminds me of one, Alex Gakuru! Does anyone know what became of him, who paid him to go silent:-) -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Damn!!
there is reasonable charge for internet, then there is unreasonable. for a long time safaricom have stuck to the unreasonable end and managed to maintain quality of service.... untill they decided to try this mass market wimax thing .... im convinced there can only be affordable internet, not cheap internet. support is one big achilles heel to many a provider. On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 7:35 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>wrote:
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 5:57 PM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com> wrote:
Maybe we should talk to one who will agree to lower costs then we all move our business to them...
Perhaps we should ask the Government to control data prices :-)
Wash, there has to be a way.
Reminds me of one, Alex Gakuru!
Does anyone know what became of him, who paid him to go silent:-)
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Damn!!
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-- Regards, Collins Areba. Strategic Operations. Center for Renewable Alternatives Old Ferry Road, off Msa Malindi Rd, Kilifi, Kenya. +254 720 516758 +254 734 696821 skype/gtalk/twitter: arebacollins *Solar *| * Wind *| * Waves * | * Biomass *
Collins, In my view, none of the service providers are charging reasonably. I am not asking for a pricing model that leaves the service provider making no revenue. I just feel its a cartel to keep prices at where they are.... Correct me if I am wrong but the fibre uptake has been below expectation (at least my expectation - in which case you cant correct me...hehehe). You see how I always saw this is....Fibre on its own means nothing to kenyans. Its what Kenyans can do when the fibre gets here. If the costs could go lower, a content company could for example be based in Meru Town, Machakos town, Uthiru....some place...and have fibre within its premises...thereby being able to distribute the content to Kenyans THUS making even more demand for the fibre/bandwidth.. Right now....only a few companies are able to afford the fibre/bandwidth costs...so consumer has very few options....therefore demand for bandwidth is very low so the few guys are actually just meeting the costs for the service provider. Anyway....I guess I will keep scratching....the Internet Users Association of Kenya might not be a bad idea after all.... On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 9:05 AM, [ Brainiac ] <arebacollins@gmail.com>wrote:
there is reasonable charge for internet, then there is unreasonable. for a long time safaricom have stuck to the unreasonable end and managed to maintain quality of service.... untill they decided to try this mass market wimax thing .... im convinced there can only be affordable internet, not cheap internet. support is one big achilles heel to many a provider.
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 7:35 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>wrote:
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 5:57 PM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com>wrote:
Maybe we should talk to one who will agree to lower costs then we all move our business to them...
Perhaps we should ask the Government to control data prices :-)
Wash, there has to be a way.
Reminds me of one, Alex Gakuru!
Does anyone know what became of him, who paid him to go silent:-)
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Damn!!
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-- Regards,
Collins Areba. Strategic Operations. Center for Renewable Alternatives Old Ferry Road, off Msa Malindi Rd, Kilifi, Kenya. +254 720 516758 +254 734 696821 skype/gtalk/twitter: arebacollins
*Solar *| * Wind *| * Waves * | * Biomass *
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My Opinion, as Published in September 2010 Issue of CIO East Africa: "Internet costs may not drop to the much anticipated levels soon. Kenyans, or rather Africans should appreciate this sooner than later. Despite numerous fancy visions with zeros thrown in aka Vision 2030 in Kenya and Vision 2020 in Rwanda and lots of lobbying from government executives, African subscribers may take long before seeing costs drop from the $300 average per Megabyte to the European sub $10 per MB. Why? If you went to business class, they must have taught you the differences between businesses and Non Governmental Organizations (NGOs). If you a re lucky eniough, they might have taught you a thing or tow about stakeholders. Businesses are entities that are entirely in operations to procur/manufacture goods & services and sell them to a consumer at a profit. NGOs on the other hand try to be less vulgar by lowering their profit operations and getting people elsewhere to foot the costs. The government does not mind about making profits but has citizens to foot its bills. The communication sector is almost entirely composed of businesses, including the ISP sector which sells internet to us. Internet to the East African region is now supplied via sparkling new sub marine cables, which with the exception of the TEAMS cable, were laid down by businesses. The owners of this entities and the shareholders are looking to see a profit in their investments. For the short term that they want to recoup the cost, they will sell internet at a cost of about $200 per mbps. Well, in that case, you think your ISP should be modest enough and sell you the internet at a cost that does not exceed $250 per mbps. Well, wrong. Immediately the internet arrives on our East African coasts, many things happen. The ISPs have to procure fiber cable cheaply from China. In addition, they acquire some networking equipment and some plastic pipes, then hire a contractor to dig a trench to lay the cable. Well, to lay the cable in a trench, the African way of business has to be applied. The local government and the ministry of information will have to approve. the local government does this at a fee. At the same time, officials in charge at the local government and Ministries need to be reminded to make this approvals and this comes in the form of kickbacks. Additionally, were it not for the Mayor, elected by the local area councilor where the cable passes through, the local government would be unable to make a decision, and for this effort, a little money in their personal bank accounts is all that can be done. At border crossings, it becomes worse, an ISP will have to keep shuttling from one national regulator to another in order to get a go ahead to dig across the no - mans land. This can be helped if a few officials received some personal cheques to put in "out-off-work" effort, otherwise the ISP can use a slower microwave link. After all this trouble, an ISP will not share the massive bandwidth that remains underutilized in its cable with a fellow ISP. They will use this as a tactic to make sure the ISP suffers from delays and additional expenses that will make its pricing above the reach of many subscribers. The least help that ISPs will offer each other is hiring a truck to go and unearth a competitors cable, tie it to the back and drag the cable till the truck arrives back where it was hired from. As you slowly drive over the multiple trenches and mounds that indicate recently cables laid accross your highway, remember that your ISP is a business that has to bill you for all incurred costs and make a profit in the process. Pull a cable today!"
Dennis, Your view here is valid. However, to me you are trying to justify why bandwidth costs will not go down. 3 months ago, no one would EVER have imagined that we would be calling at 3 bob per minute to any network!! Infact, I could have written a longer article justifying why Zain and Safaricom cannot lower their costs. Someone checked into the scene somewhere and changed all that....now you know we can talk cheaper.... I am not asking ISPs to charge unreasonably less....the entire system probably needs to be looked at.... Safaricom's strategy has been MASS MARKET and we have seen great success with that. Perhaps the ISPs need to change strategy, renegotiate with cable providers and their suppliers so they can lower costs and attract more users - hence (perhaps) higher revenues. I refuse to subscribe to your view that Internet costs may not drop soon and so I will sit back and do nothing. Instead, i appreciate that, will voice my concerns and desire for the drop WHILE at the same time, continue paying the same costs and using the same to achieve as much as achievable. If South Africans sat back and said....all other african countries (i hear they dont consider themselves to be in Africa) have got independence and we will not get lets do nothing about it....they wouldnt really have independence. Plus I am sure in this forum, there is someone/some people from the ISPs who are looking at whether its actually possible to change the price and get a large volume of subscribers - this model was successully run by Wananchi Online some years back...i thought it worked well for them....I wonder if you remember that. Now with Fibre....it might even work better than how it worked for Wananchi. Regards On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 9:22 AM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
My Opinion, as Published in September 2010 Issue of CIO East Africa: "Internet costs may not drop to the much anticipated levels soon. Kenyans, or rather Africans should appreciate this sooner than later. Despite numerous fancy visions with zeros thrown in aka Vision 2030 in Kenya and Vision 2020 in Rwanda and lots of lobbying from government executives, African subscribers may take long before seeing costs drop from the $300 average per Megabyte to the European sub $10 per MB. Why?
If you went to business class, they must have taught you the differences between businesses and Non Governmental Organizations (NGOs). If you a re lucky eniough, they might have taught you a thing or tow about stakeholders. Businesses are entities that are entirely in operations to procur/manufacture goods & services and sell them to a consumer at a profit. NGOs on the other hand try to be less vulgar by lowering their profit operations and getting people elsewhere to foot the costs. The government does not mind about making profits but has citizens to foot its bills.
The communication sector is almost entirely composed of businesses, including the ISP sector which sells internet to us. Internet to the East African region is now supplied via sparkling new sub marine cables, which with the exception of the TEAMS cable, were laid down by businesses. The owners of this entities and the shareholders are looking to see a profit in their investments. For the short term that they want to recoup the cost, they will sell internet at a cost of about $200 per mbps.
Well, in that case, you think your ISP should be modest enough and sell you the internet at a cost that does not exceed $250 per mbps. Well, wrong.
Immediately the internet arrives on our East African coasts, many things happen. The ISPs have to procure fiber cable cheaply from China. In addition, they acquire some networking equipment and some plastic pipes, then hire a contractor to dig a trench to lay the cable.
Well, to lay the cable in a trench, the African way of business has to be applied. The local government and the ministry of information will have to approve. the local government does this at a fee. At the same time, officials in charge at the local government and Ministries need to be reminded to make this approvals and this comes in the form of kickbacks. Additionally, were it not for the Mayor, elected by the local area councilor where the cable passes through, the local government would be unable to make a decision, and for this effort, a little money in their personal bank accounts is all that can be done.
At border crossings, it becomes worse, an ISP will have to keep shuttling from one national regulator to another in order to get a go ahead to dig across the no - mans land. This can be helped if a few officials received some personal cheques to put in "out-off-work" effort, otherwise the ISP can use a slower microwave link.
After all this trouble, an ISP will not share the massive bandwidth that remains underutilized in its cable with a fellow ISP. They will use this as a tactic to make sure the ISP suffers from delays and additional expenses that will make its pricing above the reach of many subscribers. The least help that ISPs will offer each other is hiring a truck to go and unearth a competitors cable, tie it to the back and drag the cable till the truck arrives back where it was hired from.
As you slowly drive over the multiple trenches and mounds that indicate recently cables laid accross your highway, remember that your ISP is a business that has to bill you for all incurred costs and make a profit in the process. Pull a cable today!"
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My view, rather than justify the status quo , is meant to incite changes. ISPs should have adopted infrastructure sharing earlier like its happening in Tanzania (http://www.6telecoms.co.tz/) Instead, each was busy digging and laying their own infrastructure. In my opinion, we should have about 3 infrastructure companies ( independent, with no business/sisters whatsoever in retail) and then have ISPs leasing infrastructure from this. This helps lower the cost and they can tackle the government when the government challenges them. Several rural county councils have been reported to charge higher than the Nairobi city council for way leaves. At the same time, Fiber vandalism form competitors would be reduced as it would affect all ISPs commonly.
From what I was meant to understand, one of the large nationwide carriers was at a time the leading vandal of their competitors. Sadly , to date, the carrier is still trying to grapple with the market.
@Bernard, Whoever said we are entitled to our own opinions (constitutional rights of sorts!! :-) ).......and that said, I don't think u aspire to run or own a business one day...but when u cross that bridge, would you want to make a business venture and balance sheets in the red??!! As for me, am very business minded, so when the shoe is on the other foot, I would like to make my business or company profitable, but not racking in money for myself as you seem to suggest! In life, its all about opportunities that will make you survive... and of course make the consumers of your service happy through affordable rates and quality of service. And given chance, I would take an opportunity to lead a consumers association, just like MOA, and ensure services are affordable and quality. What comes with heading such a consumer-friendly association...? A good paycheck....who else wouldn't want to earn a gud salary??? This is where I stop, so trying to say this kind of thinking will take us to where we were is not correct. I am as patriotic as u, but I would want to bring this country down in any form, be it scandals, doing deals or stealing money, if thats what you were so afraid to say! Put yourself in Michael Josephs shoes for a day, would you allow ua company to make losses just because competition is offering rates so cheap to the detriment of not making business sense and cents?!! As for ISPs, the fiber investments were costly (I guess this is because it was a "maiden" venture in Kenya), so when we talk of price reductions, this will not happen overnight but gradually due to markets forces and consumer demands. Also consider that the transfer of fibre technology from the West if costing us so much since these guys hv realized we are likely to give them Technology-competitiveness since our (sub-saharan africa) rate of uptake of technology is fast. May this is the West strategy to slow down that uptake! Plus other mind games and other behind-the-scenes forces at play. Lets watch this space and see how the bandwidth prices go, but for sure they have started trickling down the scale! -- Regards, Greg -------- Life is not a rehearsal, you only live once! On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 9:34 AM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com> wrote:
Dennis,
Your view here is valid. However, to me you are trying to justify why bandwidth costs will not go down. 3 months ago, no one would EVER have imagined that we would be calling at 3 bob per minute to any network!! Infact, I could have written a longer article justifying why Zain and Safaricom cannot lower their costs.
Someone checked into the scene somewhere and changed all that....now you know we can talk cheaper....
I am not asking ISPs to charge unreasonably less....the entire system probably needs to be looked at....
Safaricom's strategy has been MASS MARKET and we have seen great success with that. Perhaps the ISPs need to change strategy, renegotiate with cable providers and their suppliers so they can lower costs and attract more users - hence (perhaps) higher revenues.
I refuse to subscribe to your view that Internet costs may not drop soon and so I will sit back and do nothing. Instead, i appreciate that, will voice my concerns and desire for the drop WHILE at the same time, continue paying the same costs and using the same to achieve as much as achievable.
If South Africans sat back and said....all other african countries (i hear they dont consider themselves to be in Africa) have got independence and we will not get lets do nothing about it....they wouldnt really have independence.
Plus I am sure in this forum, there is someone/some people from the ISPs who are looking at whether its actually possible to change the price and get a large volume of subscribers - this model was successully run by Wananchi Online some years back...i thought it worked well for them....I wonder if you remember that.
Now with Fibre....it might even work better than how it worked for Wananchi.
Regards
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 9:22 AM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
My Opinion, as Published in September 2010 Issue of CIO East Africa: "Internet costs may not drop to the much anticipated levels soon. Kenyans, or rather Africans should appreciate this sooner than later. Despite numerous fancy visions with zeros thrown in aka Vision 2030 in Kenya and Vision 2020 in Rwanda and lots of lobbying from government executives, African subscribers may take long before seeing costs drop from the $300 average per Megabyte to the European sub $10 per MB. Why?
If you went to business class, they must have taught you the differences between businesses and Non Governmental Organizations (NGOs). If you a re lucky eniough, they might have taught you a thing or tow about stakeholders. Businesses are entities that are entirely in operations to procur/manufacture goods & services and sell them to a consumer at a profit. NGOs on the other hand try to be less vulgar by lowering their profit operations and getting people elsewhere to foot the costs. The government does not mind about making profits but has citizens to foot its bills.
The communication sector is almost entirely composed of businesses, including the ISP sector which sells internet to us. Internet to the East African region is now supplied via sparkling new sub marine cables, which with the exception of the TEAMS cable, were laid down by businesses. The owners of this entities and the shareholders are looking to see a profit in their investments. For the short term that they want to recoup the cost, they will sell internet at a cost of about $200 per mbps.
Well, in that case, you think your ISP should be modest enough and sell you the internet at a cost that does not exceed $250 per mbps. Well, wrong.
Immediately the internet arrives on our East African coasts, many things happen. The ISPs have to procure fiber cable cheaply from China. In addition, they acquire some networking equipment and some plastic pipes, then hire a contractor to dig a trench to lay the cable.
Well, to lay the cable in a trench, the African way of business has to be applied. The local government and the ministry of information will have to approve. the local government does this at a fee. At the same time, officials in charge at the local government and Ministries need to be reminded to make this approvals and this comes in the form of kickbacks. Additionally, were it not for the Mayor, elected by the local area councilor where the cable passes through, the local government would be unable to make a decision, and for this effort, a little money in their personal bank accounts is all that can be done.
At border crossings, it becomes worse, an ISP will have to keep shuttling from one national regulator to another in order to get a go ahead to dig across the no - mans land. This can be helped if a few officials received some personal cheques to put in "out-off-work" effort, otherwise the ISP can use a slower microwave link.
After all this trouble, an ISP will not share the massive bandwidth that remains underutilized in its cable with a fellow ISP. They will use this as a tactic to make sure the ISP suffers from delays and additional expenses that will make its pricing above the reach of many subscribers. The least help that ISPs will offer each other is hiring a truck to go and unearth a competitors cable, tie it to the back and drag the cable till the truck arrives back where it was hired from.
As you slowly drive over the multiple trenches and mounds that indicate recently cables laid accross your highway, remember that your ISP is a business that has to bill you for all incurred costs and make a profit in the process. Pull a cable today!"
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
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_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
Greg, Hehe....you can use the constitution in this case (LOL!!!). Haki yetu chants were rejected as a way to advocate for the pricing!! Dont confuse my view of lower bandwidth costs to mean the provider should not make money. Thats not what I am advocating for. I am sure based on information I have, the bandwidth costs can go lower. That said, its not my job to watch whether they make profits or not. Am a consumer, my job is to ask for reasonably lower prices (so I can make money). If you notice, my proposition is not just lower prices but , lower prices to encourage usage hence grown numbers and thus make money. Right now, with 100 bob I can get to use a 1MB link (through Safaricom's data bundles).....what are the chances that I can use a 1mb through any other provider? Lowering costs does not necesarrily mean not making money. Its product packaging. Why cant another service provider give you a 1mb fixed link and charge you per usage?..it would make it appear cheaper....and actually maybe cheaper to some people! You have to think out of the box to see what I am asking for is cheaper - not free or loss making pricing. Lastly, to quote you "so when we talk of price reductions, this will not happen overnight but gradually due to markets forces and consumer demands. " Is what I am saying here not CONSUMER DEMANDS? Regards On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 10:45 AM, Gregory Okoth <gregory.okoth@gmail.com>wrote:
@Bernard, Whoever said we are entitled to our own opinions (constitutional rights of sorts!! :-) ).......and that said, I don't think u aspire to run or own a business one day...but when u cross that bridge, would you want to make a business venture and balance sheets in the red??!!
As for me, am very business minded, so when the shoe is on the other foot, I would like to make my business or company profitable, but not racking in money for myself as you seem to suggest! In life, its all about opportunities that will make you survive... and of course make the consumers of your service happy through affordable rates and quality of service. And given chance, I would take an opportunity to lead a consumers association, just like MOA, and ensure services are affordable and quality. What comes with heading such a consumer-friendly association...? A good paycheck....who else wouldn't want to earn a gud salary??? This is where I stop, so trying to say this kind of thinking will take us to where we were is not correct. I am as patriotic as u, but I would want to bring this country down in any form, be it scandals, doing deals or stealing money, if thats what you were so afraid to say!
Put yourself in Michael Josephs shoes for a day, would you allow ua company to make losses just because competition is offering rates so cheap to the detriment of not making business sense and cents?!!
As for ISPs, the fiber investments were costly (I guess this is because it was a "maiden" venture in Kenya), so when we talk of price reductions, this will not happen overnight but gradually due to markets forces and consumer demands.
Also consider that the transfer of fibre technology from the West if costing us so much since these guys hv realized we are likely to give them Technology-competitiveness since our (sub-saharan africa) rate of uptake of technology is fast. May this is the West strategy to slow down that uptake! Plus other mind games and other behind-the-scenes forces at play.
Lets watch this space and see how the bandwidth prices go, but for sure they have started trickling down the scale!
-- Regards, Greg -------- Life is not a rehearsal, you only live once!
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 9:34 AM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com> wrote:
Dennis,
Your view here is valid. However, to me you are trying to justify why bandwidth costs will not go down. 3 months ago, no one would EVER have imagined that we would be calling at 3 bob per minute to any network!! Infact, I could have written a longer article justifying why Zain and Safaricom cannot lower their costs.
Someone checked into the scene somewhere and changed all that....now you know we can talk cheaper....
I am not asking ISPs to charge unreasonably less....the entire system probably needs to be looked at....
Safaricom's strategy has been MASS MARKET and we have seen great success with that. Perhaps the ISPs need to change strategy, renegotiate with cable providers and their suppliers so they can lower costs and attract more users - hence (perhaps) higher revenues.
I refuse to subscribe to your view that Internet costs may not drop soon and so I will sit back and do nothing. Instead, i appreciate that, will voice my concerns and desire for the drop WHILE at the same time, continue paying the same costs and using the same to achieve as much as achievable.
If South Africans sat back and said....all other african countries (i hear they dont consider themselves to be in Africa) have got independence and we will not get lets do nothing about it....they wouldnt really have independence.
Plus I am sure in this forum, there is someone/some people from the ISPs who are looking at whether its actually possible to change the price and get a large volume of subscribers - this model was successully run by Wananchi Online some years back...i thought it worked well for them....I wonder if you remember that.
Now with Fibre....it might even work better than how it worked for Wananchi.
Regards
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 9:22 AM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
My Opinion, as Published in September 2010 Issue of CIO East Africa: "Internet costs may not drop to the much anticipated levels soon. Kenyans, or rather Africans should appreciate this sooner than later. Despite numerous fancy visions with zeros thrown in aka Vision 2030 in Kenya and Vision 2020 in Rwanda and lots of lobbying from government executives, African subscribers may take long before seeing costs drop from the $300 average per Megabyte to the European sub $10 per MB. Why?
If you went to business class, they must have taught you the differences between businesses and Non Governmental Organizations (NGOs). If you a re lucky eniough, they might have taught you a thing or tow about stakeholders. Businesses are entities that are entirely in operations to procur/manufacture goods & services and sell them to a consumer at a profit. NGOs on the other hand try to be less vulgar by lowering their profit operations and getting people elsewhere to foot the costs. The government does not mind about making profits but has citizens to foot its bills.
The communication sector is almost entirely composed of businesses, including the ISP sector which sells internet to us. Internet to the East African region is now supplied via sparkling new sub marine cables, which with the exception of the TEAMS cable, were laid down by businesses. The owners of this entities and the shareholders are looking to see a profit in their investments. For the short term that they want to recoup the cost, they will sell internet at a cost of about $200 per mbps.
Well, in that case, you think your ISP should be modest enough and sell you the internet at a cost that does not exceed $250 per mbps. Well, wrong.
Immediately the internet arrives on our East African coasts, many things happen. The ISPs have to procure fiber cable cheaply from China. In addition, they acquire some networking equipment and some plastic pipes, then hire a contractor to dig a trench to lay the cable.
Well, to lay the cable in a trench, the African way of business has to be applied. The local government and the ministry of information will have to approve. the local government does this at a fee. At the same time, officials in charge at the local government and Ministries need to be reminded to make this approvals and this comes in the form of kickbacks. Additionally, were it not for the Mayor, elected by the local area councilor where the cable passes through, the local government would be unable to make a decision, and for this effort, a little money in their personal bank accounts is all that can be done.
At border crossings, it becomes worse, an ISP will have to keep shuttling from one national regulator to another in order to get a go ahead to dig across the no - mans land. This can be helped if a few officials received some personal cheques to put in "out-off-work" effort, otherwise the ISP can use a slower microwave link.
After all this trouble, an ISP will not share the massive bandwidth that remains underutilized in its cable with a fellow ISP. They will use this as a tactic to make sure the ISP suffers from delays and additional expenses that will make its pricing above the reach of many subscribers. The least help that ISPs will offer each other is hiring a truck to go and unearth a competitors cable, tie it to the back and drag the cable till the truck arrives back where it was hired from.
As you slowly drive over the multiple trenches and mounds that indicate recently cables laid accross your highway, remember that your ISP is a business that has to bill you for all incurred costs and make a profit in the process. Pull a cable today!"
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
@Kioko, So I guess we have some ground in common?!! OK, now jump over the fence and wear the shoes of the manager of a company!! We shall hv more common ground there too!! Me thots, but thanks for all that, its quite an insightful debate! :-) An eye opener too!! On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 12:08 PM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com> wrote:
Greg,
Hehe....you can use the constitution in this case (LOL!!!). Haki yetu chants were rejected as a way to advocate for the pricing!!
Dont confuse my view of lower bandwidth costs to mean the provider should not make money. Thats not what I am advocating for. I am sure based on information I have, the bandwidth costs can go lower.
That said, its not my job to watch whether they make profits or not. Am a consumer, my job is to ask for reasonably lower prices (so I can make money).
If you notice, my proposition is not just lower prices but , lower prices to encourage usage hence grown numbers and thus make money. Right now, with 100 bob I can get to use a 1MB link (through Safaricom's data bundles).....what are the chances that I can use a 1mb through any other provider?
Lowering costs does not necesarrily mean not making money. Its product packaging. Why cant another service provider give you a 1mb fixed link and charge you per usage?..it would make it appear cheaper....and actually maybe cheaper to some people!
You have to think out of the box to see what I am asking for is cheaper - not free or loss making pricing.
Lastly, to quote you "so when we talk of price reductions, this will not happen overnight but gradually due to markets forces and consumer demands. " Is what I am saying here not CONSUMER DEMANDS?
Regards
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 10:45 AM, Gregory Okoth <gregory.okoth@gmail.com>wrote:
@Bernard, Whoever said we are entitled to our own opinions (constitutional rights of sorts!! :-) ).......and that said, I don't think u aspire to run or own a business one day...but when u cross that bridge, would you want to make a business venture and balance sheets in the red??!!
As for me, am very business minded, so when the shoe is on the other foot, I would like to make my business or company profitable, but not racking in money for myself as you seem to suggest! In life, its all about opportunities that will make you survive... and of course make the consumers of your service happy through affordable rates and quality of service. And given chance, I would take an opportunity to lead a consumers association, just like MOA, and ensure services are affordable and quality. What comes with heading such a consumer-friendly association...? A good paycheck....who else wouldn't want to earn a gud salary??? This is where I stop, so trying to say this kind of thinking will take us to where we were is not correct. I am as patriotic as u, but I would want to bring this country down in any form, be it scandals, doing deals or stealing money, if thats what you were so afraid to say!
Put yourself in Michael Josephs shoes for a day, would you allow ua company to make losses just because competition is offering rates so cheap to the detriment of not making business sense and cents?!!
As for ISPs, the fiber investments were costly (I guess this is because it was a "maiden" venture in Kenya), so when we talk of price reductions, this will not happen overnight but gradually due to markets forces and consumer demands.
Also consider that the transfer of fibre technology from the West if costing us so much since these guys hv realized we are likely to give them Technology-competitiveness since our (sub-saharan africa) rate of uptake of technology is fast. May this is the West strategy to slow down that uptake! Plus other mind games and other behind-the-scenes forces at play.
Lets watch this space and see how the bandwidth prices go, but for sure they have started trickling down the scale!
-- Regards, Greg -------- Life is not a rehearsal, you only live once!
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 9:34 AM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com>wrote:
Dennis,
Your view here is valid. However, to me you are trying to justify why bandwidth costs will not go down. 3 months ago, no one would EVER have imagined that we would be calling at 3 bob per minute to any network!! Infact, I could have written a longer article justifying why Zain and Safaricom cannot lower their costs.
Someone checked into the scene somewhere and changed all that....now you know we can talk cheaper....
I am not asking ISPs to charge unreasonably less....the entire system probably needs to be looked at....
Safaricom's strategy has been MASS MARKET and we have seen great success with that. Perhaps the ISPs need to change strategy, renegotiate with cable providers and their suppliers so they can lower costs and attract more users - hence (perhaps) higher revenues.
I refuse to subscribe to your view that Internet costs may not drop soon and so I will sit back and do nothing. Instead, i appreciate that, will voice my concerns and desire for the drop WHILE at the same time, continue paying the same costs and using the same to achieve as much as achievable.
If South Africans sat back and said....all other african countries (i hear they dont consider themselves to be in Africa) have got independence and we will not get lets do nothing about it....they wouldnt really have independence.
Plus I am sure in this forum, there is someone/some people from the ISPs who are looking at whether its actually possible to change the price and get a large volume of subscribers - this model was successully run by Wananchi Online some years back...i thought it worked well for them....I wonder if you remember that.
Now with Fibre....it might even work better than how it worked for Wananchi.
Regards
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 9:22 AM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
My Opinion, as Published in September 2010 Issue of CIO East Africa: "Internet costs may not drop to the much anticipated levels soon. Kenyans, or rather Africans should appreciate this sooner than later. Despite numerous fancy visions with zeros thrown in aka Vision 2030 in Kenya and Vision 2020 in Rwanda and lots of lobbying from government executives, African subscribers may take long before seeing costs drop from the $300 average per Megabyte to the European sub $10 per MB. Why?
If you went to business class, they must have taught you the differences between businesses and Non Governmental Organizations (NGOs). If you a re lucky eniough, they might have taught you a thing or tow about stakeholders. Businesses are entities that are entirely in operations to procur/manufacture goods & services and sell them to a consumer at a profit. NGOs on the other hand try to be less vulgar by lowering their profit operations and getting people elsewhere to foot the costs. The government does not mind about making profits but has citizens to foot its bills.
The communication sector is almost entirely composed of businesses, including the ISP sector which sells internet to us. Internet to the East African region is now supplied via sparkling new sub marine cables, which with the exception of the TEAMS cable, were laid down by businesses. The owners of this entities and the shareholders are looking to see a profit in their investments. For the short term that they want to recoup the cost, they will sell internet at a cost of about $200 per mbps.
Well, in that case, you think your ISP should be modest enough and sell you the internet at a cost that does not exceed $250 per mbps. Well, wrong.
Immediately the internet arrives on our East African coasts, many things happen. The ISPs have to procure fiber cable cheaply from China. In addition, they acquire some networking equipment and some plastic pipes, then hire a contractor to dig a trench to lay the cable.
Well, to lay the cable in a trench, the African way of business has to be applied. The local government and the ministry of information will have to approve. the local government does this at a fee. At the same time, officials in charge at the local government and Ministries need to be reminded to make this approvals and this comes in the form of kickbacks. Additionally, were it not for the Mayor, elected by the local area councilor where the cable passes through, the local government would be unable to make a decision, and for this effort, a little money in their personal bank accounts is all that can be done.
At border crossings, it becomes worse, an ISP will have to keep shuttling from one national regulator to another in order to get a go ahead to dig across the no - mans land. This can be helped if a few officials received some personal cheques to put in "out-off-work" effort, otherwise the ISP can use a slower microwave link.
After all this trouble, an ISP will not share the massive bandwidth that remains underutilized in its cable with a fellow ISP. They will use this as a tactic to make sure the ISP suffers from delays and additional expenses that will make its pricing above the reach of many subscribers. The least help that ISPs will offer each other is hiring a truck to go and unearth a competitors cable, tie it to the back and drag the cable till the truck arrives back where it was hired from.
As you slowly drive over the multiple trenches and mounds that indicate recently cables laid accross your highway, remember that your ISP is a business that has to bill you for all incurred costs and make a profit in the process. Pull a cable today!"
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards, Greg -------- Life is not a rehearsal, you only live once!
Greg, You will be surprised which side of the fence I belong....i just don't say :-) Regards On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 12:42 PM, Gregory Okoth <gregory.okoth@gmail.com>wrote:
@Kioko, So I guess we have some ground in common?!!
OK, now jump over the fence and wear the shoes of the manager of a company!! We shall hv more common ground there too!! Me thots, but thanks for all that, its quite an insightful debate! :-) An eye opener too!!
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 12:08 PM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com>wrote:
Greg,
Hehe....you can use the constitution in this case (LOL!!!). Haki yetu chants were rejected as a way to advocate for the pricing!!
Dont confuse my view of lower bandwidth costs to mean the provider should not make money. Thats not what I am advocating for. I am sure based on information I have, the bandwidth costs can go lower.
That said, its not my job to watch whether they make profits or not. Am a consumer, my job is to ask for reasonably lower prices (so I can make money).
If you notice, my proposition is not just lower prices but , lower prices to encourage usage hence grown numbers and thus make money. Right now, with 100 bob I can get to use a 1MB link (through Safaricom's data bundles).....what are the chances that I can use a 1mb through any other provider?
Lowering costs does not necesarrily mean not making money. Its product packaging. Why cant another service provider give you a 1mb fixed link and charge you per usage?..it would make it appear cheaper....and actually maybe cheaper to some people!
You have to think out of the box to see what I am asking for is cheaper - not free or loss making pricing.
Lastly, to quote you "so when we talk of price reductions, this will not happen overnight but gradually due to markets forces and consumer demands. " Is what I am saying here not CONSUMER DEMANDS?
Regards
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 10:45 AM, Gregory Okoth <gregory.okoth@gmail.com>wrote:
@Bernard, Whoever said we are entitled to our own opinions (constitutional rights of sorts!! :-) ).......and that said, I don't think u aspire to run or own a business one day...but when u cross that bridge, would you want to make a business venture and balance sheets in the red??!!
As for me, am very business minded, so when the shoe is on the other foot, I would like to make my business or company profitable, but not racking in money for myself as you seem to suggest! In life, its all about opportunities that will make you survive... and of course make the consumers of your service happy through affordable rates and quality of service. And given chance, I would take an opportunity to lead a consumers association, just like MOA, and ensure services are affordable and quality. What comes with heading such a consumer-friendly association...? A good paycheck....who else wouldn't want to earn a gud salary??? This is where I stop, so trying to say this kind of thinking will take us to where we were is not correct. I am as patriotic as u, but I would want to bring this country down in any form, be it scandals, doing deals or stealing money, if thats what you were so afraid to say!
Put yourself in Michael Josephs shoes for a day, would you allow ua company to make losses just because competition is offering rates so cheap to the detriment of not making business sense and cents?!!
As for ISPs, the fiber investments were costly (I guess this is because it was a "maiden" venture in Kenya), so when we talk of price reductions, this will not happen overnight but gradually due to markets forces and consumer demands.
Also consider that the transfer of fibre technology from the West if costing us so much since these guys hv realized we are likely to give them Technology-competitiveness since our (sub-saharan africa) rate of uptake of technology is fast. May this is the West strategy to slow down that uptake! Plus other mind games and other behind-the-scenes forces at play.
Lets watch this space and see how the bandwidth prices go, but for sure they have started trickling down the scale!
-- Regards, Greg -------- Life is not a rehearsal, you only live once!
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 9:34 AM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com>wrote:
Dennis,
Your view here is valid. However, to me you are trying to justify why bandwidth costs will not go down. 3 months ago, no one would EVER have imagined that we would be calling at 3 bob per minute to any network!! Infact, I could have written a longer article justifying why Zain and Safaricom cannot lower their costs.
Someone checked into the scene somewhere and changed all that....now you know we can talk cheaper....
I am not asking ISPs to charge unreasonably less....the entire system probably needs to be looked at....
Safaricom's strategy has been MASS MARKET and we have seen great success with that. Perhaps the ISPs need to change strategy, renegotiate with cable providers and their suppliers so they can lower costs and attract more users - hence (perhaps) higher revenues.
I refuse to subscribe to your view that Internet costs may not drop soon and so I will sit back and do nothing. Instead, i appreciate that, will voice my concerns and desire for the drop WHILE at the same time, continue paying the same costs and using the same to achieve as much as achievable.
If South Africans sat back and said....all other african countries (i hear they dont consider themselves to be in Africa) have got independence and we will not get lets do nothing about it....they wouldnt really have independence.
Plus I am sure in this forum, there is someone/some people from the ISPs who are looking at whether its actually possible to change the price and get a large volume of subscribers - this model was successully run by Wananchi Online some years back...i thought it worked well for them....I wonder if you remember that.
Now with Fibre....it might even work better than how it worked for Wananchi.
Regards
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 9:22 AM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
My Opinion, as Published in September 2010 Issue of CIO East Africa: "Internet costs may not drop to the much anticipated levels soon. Kenyans, or rather Africans should appreciate this sooner than later. Despite numerous fancy visions with zeros thrown in aka Vision 2030 in Kenya and Vision 2020 in Rwanda and lots of lobbying from government executives, African subscribers may take long before seeing costs drop from the $300 average per Megabyte to the European sub $10 per MB. Why?
If you went to business class, they must have taught you the differences between businesses and Non Governmental Organizations (NGOs). If you a re lucky eniough, they might have taught you a thing or tow about stakeholders. Businesses are entities that are entirely in operations to procur/manufacture goods & services and sell them to a consumer at a profit. NGOs on the other hand try to be less vulgar by lowering their profit operations and getting people elsewhere to foot the costs. The government does not mind about making profits but has citizens to foot its bills.
The communication sector is almost entirely composed of businesses, including the ISP sector which sells internet to us. Internet to the East African region is now supplied via sparkling new sub marine cables, which with the exception of the TEAMS cable, were laid down by businesses. The owners of this entities and the shareholders are looking to see a profit in their investments. For the short term that they want to recoup the cost, they will sell internet at a cost of about $200 per mbps.
Well, in that case, you think your ISP should be modest enough and sell you the internet at a cost that does not exceed $250 per mbps. Well, wrong.
Immediately the internet arrives on our East African coasts, many things happen. The ISPs have to procure fiber cable cheaply from China. In addition, they acquire some networking equipment and some plastic pipes, then hire a contractor to dig a trench to lay the cable.
Well, to lay the cable in a trench, the African way of business has to be applied. The local government and the ministry of information will have to approve. the local government does this at a fee. At the same time, officials in charge at the local government and Ministries need to be reminded to make this approvals and this comes in the form of kickbacks. Additionally, were it not for the Mayor, elected by the local area councilor where the cable passes through, the local government would be unable to make a decision, and for this effort, a little money in their personal bank accounts is all that can be done.
At border crossings, it becomes worse, an ISP will have to keep shuttling from one national regulator to another in order to get a go ahead to dig across the no - mans land. This can be helped if a few officials received some personal cheques to put in "out-off-work" effort, otherwise the ISP can use a slower microwave link.
After all this trouble, an ISP will not share the massive bandwidth that remains underutilized in its cable with a fellow ISP. They will use this as a tactic to make sure the ISP suffers from delays and additional expenses that will make its pricing above the reach of many subscribers. The least help that ISPs will offer each other is hiring a truck to go and unearth a competitors cable, tie it to the back and drag the cable till the truck arrives back where it was hired from.
As you slowly drive over the multiple trenches and mounds that indicate recently cables laid accross your highway, remember that your ISP is a business that has to bill you for all incurred costs and make a profit in the process. Pull a cable today!"
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards, Greg -------- Life is not a rehearsal, you only live once!
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
Really?!! On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 12:46 PM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com> wrote:
Greg,
You will be surprised which side of the fence I belong....i just don't say :-)
Regards
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 12:42 PM, Gregory Okoth <gregory.okoth@gmail.com>wrote:
@Kioko, So I guess we have some ground in common?!!
OK, now jump over the fence and wear the shoes of the manager of a company!! We shall hv more common ground there too!! Me thots, but thanks for all that, its quite an insightful debate! :-) An eye opener too!!
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 12:08 PM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com>wrote:
Greg,
Hehe....you can use the constitution in this case (LOL!!!). Haki yetu chants were rejected as a way to advocate for the pricing!!
Dont confuse my view of lower bandwidth costs to mean the provider should not make money. Thats not what I am advocating for. I am sure based on information I have, the bandwidth costs can go lower.
That said, its not my job to watch whether they make profits or not. Am a consumer, my job is to ask for reasonably lower prices (so I can make money).
If you notice, my proposition is not just lower prices but , lower prices to encourage usage hence grown numbers and thus make money. Right now, with 100 bob I can get to use a 1MB link (through Safaricom's data bundles).....what are the chances that I can use a 1mb through any other provider?
Lowering costs does not necesarrily mean not making money. Its product packaging. Why cant another service provider give you a 1mb fixed link and charge you per usage?..it would make it appear cheaper....and actually maybe cheaper to some people!
You have to think out of the box to see what I am asking for is cheaper - not free or loss making pricing.
Lastly, to quote you "so when we talk of price reductions, this will not happen overnight but gradually due to markets forces and consumer demands. " Is what I am saying here not CONSUMER DEMANDS?
Regards
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 10:45 AM, Gregory Okoth <gregory.okoth@gmail.com
wrote:
@Bernard, Whoever said we are entitled to our own opinions (constitutional rights of sorts!! :-) ).......and that said, I don't think u aspire to run or own a business one day...but when u cross that bridge, would you want to make a business venture and balance sheets in the red??!!
As for me, am very business minded, so when the shoe is on the other foot, I would like to make my business or company profitable, but not racking in money for myself as you seem to suggest! In life, its all about opportunities that will make you survive... and of course make the consumers of your service happy through affordable rates and quality of service. And given chance, I would take an opportunity to lead a consumers association, just like MOA, and ensure services are affordable and quality. What comes with heading such a consumer-friendly association...? A good paycheck....who else wouldn't want to earn a gud salary??? This is where I stop, so trying to say this kind of thinking will take us to where we were is not correct. I am as patriotic as u, but I would want to bring this country down in any form, be it scandals, doing deals or stealing money, if thats what you were so afraid to say!
Put yourself in Michael Josephs shoes for a day, would you allow ua company to make losses just because competition is offering rates so cheap to the detriment of not making business sense and cents?!!
As for ISPs, the fiber investments were costly (I guess this is because it was a "maiden" venture in Kenya), so when we talk of price reductions, this will not happen overnight but gradually due to markets forces and consumer demands.
Also consider that the transfer of fibre technology from the West if costing us so much since these guys hv realized we are likely to give them Technology-competitiveness since our (sub-saharan africa) rate of uptake of technology is fast. May this is the West strategy to slow down that uptake! Plus other mind games and other behind-the-scenes forces at play.
Lets watch this space and see how the bandwidth prices go, but for sure they have started trickling down the scale!
-- Regards, Greg -------- Life is not a rehearsal, you only live once!
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 9:34 AM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com>wrote:
Dennis,
Your view here is valid. However, to me you are trying to justify why bandwidth costs will not go down. 3 months ago, no one would EVER have imagined that we would be calling at 3 bob per minute to any network!! Infact, I could have written a longer article justifying why Zain and Safaricom cannot lower their costs.
Someone checked into the scene somewhere and changed all that....now you know we can talk cheaper....
I am not asking ISPs to charge unreasonably less....the entire system probably needs to be looked at....
Safaricom's strategy has been MASS MARKET and we have seen great success with that. Perhaps the ISPs need to change strategy, renegotiate with cable providers and their suppliers so they can lower costs and attract more users - hence (perhaps) higher revenues.
I refuse to subscribe to your view that Internet costs may not drop soon and so I will sit back and do nothing. Instead, i appreciate that, will voice my concerns and desire for the drop WHILE at the same time, continue paying the same costs and using the same to achieve as much as achievable.
If South Africans sat back and said....all other african countries (i hear they dont consider themselves to be in Africa) have got independence and we will not get lets do nothing about it....they wouldnt really have independence.
Plus I am sure in this forum, there is someone/some people from the ISPs who are looking at whether its actually possible to change the price and get a large volume of subscribers - this model was successully run by Wananchi Online some years back...i thought it worked well for them....I wonder if you remember that.
Now with Fibre....it might even work better than how it worked for Wananchi.
Regards
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 9:22 AM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com>wrote:
My Opinion, as Published in September 2010 Issue of CIO East Africa: "Internet costs may not drop to the much anticipated levels soon. Kenyans, or rather Africans should appreciate this sooner than later. Despite numerous fancy visions with zeros thrown in aka Vision 2030 in Kenya and Vision 2020 in Rwanda and lots of lobbying from government executives, African subscribers may take long before seeing costs drop from the $300 average per Megabyte to the European sub $10 per MB. Why?
If you went to business class, they must have taught you the differences between businesses and Non Governmental Organizations (NGOs). If you a re lucky eniough, they might have taught you a thing or tow about stakeholders. Businesses are entities that are entirely in operations to procur/manufacture goods & services and sell them to a consumer at a profit. NGOs on the other hand try to be less vulgar by lowering their profit operations and getting people elsewhere to foot the costs. The government does not mind about making profits but has citizens to foot its bills.
The communication sector is almost entirely composed of businesses, including the ISP sector which sells internet to us. Internet to the East African region is now supplied via sparkling new sub marine cables, which with the exception of the TEAMS cable, were laid down by businesses. The owners of this entities and the shareholders are looking to see a profit in their investments. For the short term that they want to recoup the cost, they will sell internet at a cost of about $200 per mbps.
Well, in that case, you think your ISP should be modest enough and sell you the internet at a cost that does not exceed $250 per mbps. Well, wrong.
Immediately the internet arrives on our East African coasts, many things happen. The ISPs have to procure fiber cable cheaply from China. In addition, they acquire some networking equipment and some plastic pipes, then hire a contractor to dig a trench to lay the cable.
Well, to lay the cable in a trench, the African way of business has to be applied. The local government and the ministry of information will have to approve. the local government does this at a fee. At the same time, officials in charge at the local government and Ministries need to be reminded to make this approvals and this comes in the form of kickbacks. Additionally, were it not for the Mayor, elected by the local area councilor where the cable passes through, the local government would be unable to make a decision, and for this effort, a little money in their personal bank accounts is all that can be done.
At border crossings, it becomes worse, an ISP will have to keep shuttling from one national regulator to another in order to get a go ahead to dig across the no - mans land. This can be helped if a few officials received some personal cheques to put in "out-off-work" effort, otherwise the ISP can use a slower microwave link.
After all this trouble, an ISP will not share the massive bandwidth that remains underutilized in its cable with a fellow ISP. They will use this as a tactic to make sure the ISP suffers from delays and additional expenses that will make its pricing above the reach of many subscribers. The least help that ISPs will offer each other is hiring a truck to go and unearth a competitors cable, tie it to the back and drag the cable till the truck arrives back where it was hired from.
As you slowly drive over the multiple trenches and mounds that indicate recently cables laid accross your highway, remember that your ISP is a business that has to bill you for all incurred costs and make a profit in the process. Pull a cable today!"
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards, Greg -------- Life is not a rehearsal, you only live once!
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards, Greg -------- Life is not a rehearsal, you only live once!
hehe.... Not really!! On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 12:59 PM, Gregory Okoth <gregory.okoth@gmail.com>wrote:
Really?!!
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 12:46 PM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com>wrote:
Greg,
You will be surprised which side of the fence I belong....i just don't say :-)
Regards
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 12:42 PM, Gregory Okoth <gregory.okoth@gmail.com>wrote:
@Kioko, So I guess we have some ground in common?!!
OK, now jump over the fence and wear the shoes of the manager of a company!! We shall hv more common ground there too!! Me thots, but thanks for all that, its quite an insightful debate! :-) An eye opener too!!
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 12:08 PM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com>wrote:
Greg,
Hehe....you can use the constitution in this case (LOL!!!). Haki yetu chants were rejected as a way to advocate for the pricing!!
Dont confuse my view of lower bandwidth costs to mean the provider should not make money. Thats not what I am advocating for. I am sure based on information I have, the bandwidth costs can go lower.
That said, its not my job to watch whether they make profits or not. Am a consumer, my job is to ask for reasonably lower prices (so I can make money).
If you notice, my proposition is not just lower prices but , lower prices to encourage usage hence grown numbers and thus make money. Right now, with 100 bob I can get to use a 1MB link (through Safaricom's data bundles).....what are the chances that I can use a 1mb through any other provider?
Lowering costs does not necesarrily mean not making money. Its product packaging. Why cant another service provider give you a 1mb fixed link and charge you per usage?..it would make it appear cheaper....and actually maybe cheaper to some people!
You have to think out of the box to see what I am asking for is cheaper - not free or loss making pricing.
Lastly, to quote you "so when we talk of price reductions, this will not happen overnight but gradually due to markets forces and consumer demands. " Is what I am saying here not CONSUMER DEMANDS?
Regards
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 10:45 AM, Gregory Okoth < gregory.okoth@gmail.com> wrote:
@Bernard, Whoever said we are entitled to our own opinions (constitutional rights of sorts!! :-) ).......and that said, I don't think u aspire to run or own a business one day...but when u cross that bridge, would you want to make a business venture and balance sheets in the red??!!
As for me, am very business minded, so when the shoe is on the other foot, I would like to make my business or company profitable, but not racking in money for myself as you seem to suggest! In life, its all about opportunities that will make you survive... and of course make the consumers of your service happy through affordable rates and quality of service. And given chance, I would take an opportunity to lead a consumers association, just like MOA, and ensure services are affordable and quality. What comes with heading such a consumer-friendly association...? A good paycheck....who else wouldn't want to earn a gud salary??? This is where I stop, so trying to say this kind of thinking will take us to where we were is not correct. I am as patriotic as u, but I would want to bring this country down in any form, be it scandals, doing deals or stealing money, if thats what you were so afraid to say!
Put yourself in Michael Josephs shoes for a day, would you allow ua company to make losses just because competition is offering rates so cheap to the detriment of not making business sense and cents?!!
As for ISPs, the fiber investments were costly (I guess this is because it was a "maiden" venture in Kenya), so when we talk of price reductions, this will not happen overnight but gradually due to markets forces and consumer demands.
Also consider that the transfer of fibre technology from the West if costing us so much since these guys hv realized we are likely to give them Technology-competitiveness since our (sub-saharan africa) rate of uptake of technology is fast. May this is the West strategy to slow down that uptake! Plus other mind games and other behind-the-scenes forces at play.
Lets watch this space and see how the bandwidth prices go, but for sure they have started trickling down the scale!
-- Regards, Greg -------- Life is not a rehearsal, you only live once!
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 9:34 AM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com>wrote:
Dennis,
Your view here is valid. However, to me you are trying to justify why bandwidth costs will not go down. 3 months ago, no one would EVER have imagined that we would be calling at 3 bob per minute to any network!! Infact, I could have written a longer article justifying why Zain and Safaricom cannot lower their costs.
Someone checked into the scene somewhere and changed all that....now you know we can talk cheaper....
I am not asking ISPs to charge unreasonably less....the entire system probably needs to be looked at....
Safaricom's strategy has been MASS MARKET and we have seen great success with that. Perhaps the ISPs need to change strategy, renegotiate with cable providers and their suppliers so they can lower costs and attract more users - hence (perhaps) higher revenues.
I refuse to subscribe to your view that Internet costs may not drop soon and so I will sit back and do nothing. Instead, i appreciate that, will voice my concerns and desire for the drop WHILE at the same time, continue paying the same costs and using the same to achieve as much as achievable.
If South Africans sat back and said....all other african countries (i hear they dont consider themselves to be in Africa) have got independence and we will not get lets do nothing about it....they wouldnt really have independence.
Plus I am sure in this forum, there is someone/some people from the ISPs who are looking at whether its actually possible to change the price and get a large volume of subscribers - this model was successully run by Wananchi Online some years back...i thought it worked well for them....I wonder if you remember that.
Now with Fibre....it might even work better than how it worked for Wananchi.
Regards
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 9:22 AM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com>wrote:
> My Opinion, as Published in September 2010 Issue of CIO East Africa: > "Internet costs may not drop to the much anticipated levels soon. > Kenyans, or rather Africans should appreciate this sooner than later. > Despite numerous fancy visions with zeros thrown in aka Vision 2030 in Kenya > and Vision 2020 in Rwanda and lots of lobbying from government executives, > African subscribers may take long before seeing costs drop from the $300 > average per Megabyte to the European sub $10 per MB. Why? > > If you went to business class, they must have taught you the > differences between businesses and Non Governmental Organizations (NGOs). If > you a re lucky eniough, they might have taught you a thing or tow about > stakeholders. Businesses are entities that are entirely in operations to > procur/manufacture goods & services and sell them to a consumer at a profit. > NGOs on the other hand try to be less vulgar by lowering their profit > operations and getting people elsewhere to foot the costs. The government > does not mind about making profits but has citizens to foot its bills. > > The communication sector is almost entirely composed of businesses, > including the ISP sector which sells internet to us. Internet to the East > African region is now supplied via sparkling new sub marine cables, which > with the exception of the TEAMS cable, were laid down by businesses. The > owners of this entities and the shareholders are looking to see a profit in > their investments. For the short term that they want to recoup the cost, > they will sell internet at a cost of about $200 per mbps. > > Well, in that case, you think your ISP should be modest enough and > sell you the internet at a cost that does not exceed $250 per mbps. Well, > wrong. > > Immediately the internet arrives on our East African coasts, many > things happen. The ISPs have to procure fiber cable cheaply from China. In > addition, they acquire some networking equipment and some plastic pipes, > then hire a contractor to dig a trench to lay the cable. > > Well, to lay the cable in a trench, the African way of business has > to be applied. The local government and the ministry of information will > have to approve. the local government does this at a fee. At the same time, > officials in charge at the local government and Ministries need to be > reminded to make this approvals and this comes in the form of kickbacks. > Additionally, were it not for the Mayor, elected by the local area councilor > where the cable passes through, the local government would be unable to make > a decision, and for this effort, a little money in their personal bank > accounts is all that can be done. > > At border crossings, it becomes worse, an ISP will have to keep > shuttling from one national regulator to another in order to get a go ahead > to dig across the no - mans land. This can be helped if a few officials > received some personal cheques to put in "out-off-work" effort, otherwise > the ISP can use a slower microwave link. > > After all this trouble, an ISP will not share the massive bandwidth > that remains underutilized in its cable with a fellow ISP. They will use > this as a tactic to make sure the ISP suffers from delays and additional > expenses that will make its pricing above the reach of many subscribers. The > least help that ISPs will offer each other is hiring a truck to go and > unearth a competitors cable, tie it to the back and drag the cable till the > truck arrives back where it was hired from. > > As you slowly drive over the multiple trenches and mounds that > indicate recently cables laid accross your highway, remember that your ISP > is a business that has to bill you for all incurred costs and make a profit > in the process. Pull a cable today!" > > > _______________________________________________ > Skunkworks mailing list > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet > > http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... > ------------ > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
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_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards, Greg -------- Life is not a rehearsal, you only live once!
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards, Greg -------- Life is not a rehearsal, you only live once!
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
participants (6)
-
[ Brainiac ] -
bernard kioko -
Dennis Kioko -
Gregory Okoth -
Joe Murithi Njeru -
Odhiambo Washington