Well said Adam.i confess to having fallen into two of the listed categories. On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Adam Nelson <adam@varud.com> wrote:

Why?

1. Kenyan developers don't embrace higher paying skills like Python, Ruby, Go, Haskell and instead stick with commodity languages like PHP. 2. Kenyan developers don't negotiate well - and generally take the initial offer instead of pushing for 10-20% more than the offer. Always negotiate the rate and understand the value of long term work vs short term work. If you're good and you can demonstrate that, people will pay. 3. Kenyan developers don't write good CVs and cover letters. A high quality application will get you much farther than submitting a resume written in Word 97 written in a bad font/layout. Getting farther means more well-paying opportunities open up. 4. Kenyan developers don't cultivate high quality online presences (Github, etc...). No team worth its salt will hire a developer without a Github profile. 5. Kenyan developers don't push local managers to hire other high quality developers and take the initiative to create a world class team. 6. Kenyan developers don't quit when they realize that the team/management is mediocre and then suffer because we're the average of the 5 people we spend the most time with.

-- Kili.io - OpenStack for Africa: kili.io Musings: twitter.com/varud <https://twitter.com/varud> About Adam: www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson

On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Evans Marindany <prosnave@gmail.com>wrote:

...

Why is it that Kenyan Developers/designers are among the worst paid in the universe? Src: http://www.hongkiat.com/blog/designers-developers-salaries-worldwide/

Country (Currency) Annual Salary (USD) United States<http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(USD) $49,720.00 Japan <http://job.j-sen.jp/10313/> (JPY) $40,180.00 Australia<http://www.payscale.com/research/AU/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(AUD) $56,071.00 United Kingdom<http://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(GBP) $34,828.00 Italy<http://www.payscale.com/research/IT/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(EUR) $25,820.00 Germany<http://www.payscale.com/research/DE/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(EUR) $45,791.00 France<http://www.payscale.com/research/FR/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(EUR) $24,488.00 Greece<http://www.payscale.com/research/GR/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(EUR) $17,413.00 Switzerland<http://www.payscale.com/research/CH/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(CHF) $71,202.00 Sweden<http://www.payscale.com/research/SE/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(SEK) $31,464.00 Portugal<http://www.payscale.com/research/PT/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(EUR) $48,412.00 Spain<http://www.payscale.com/research/ES/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(EUR) $30,324.00 Russia<http://www.payscale.com/research/RU/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(RUB) $14,504.00 Ireland<http://www.payscale.com/research/IE/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(EUR) $38,844.00 New Zealand<http://www.payscale.com/research/NZ/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(NZD) $37,190.00 Netherlands<http://www.payscale.com/research/NL/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(EUR) $35,828.00 Denmark<http://www.payscale.com/research/DK/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(DKK) $37,398.00 Poland<http://www.payscale.com/research/PL/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(PLN) $11,859.00 Finland<http://www.payscale.com/research/FI/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(EUR) $47,217.00 Austria<http://www.payscale.com/research/AT/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(EUR) $46,522.00 Romania<http://www.payscale.com/research/RO/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(RON) $21,600.00 Belgium<http://www.payscale.com/research/BE/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(EUR) $27,330.00 Egypt<http://www.payscale.com/research/EG/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(EGP) $10,347.00 India<http://www.payscale.com/research/IN/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(INR) $4,482.00 Indonesia<http://www.payscale.com/research/ID/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(IDR) $3,301.00 Malaysia<http://www.payscale.com/research/MY/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(MYR) $13,842.00 Singapore<http://www.payscale.com/research/SG/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(SGD) $26,062.00 Ukraine<http://www.payscale.com/research/UA/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(UAH) $12,000.00 Bahrain (BHD) Not Enough Information Brazil<http://www.payscale.com/research/BR/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(BRL) $26,907.00 Mexico<http://www.payscale.com/research/MX/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(MXN) $16,916.00 Argentina<http://www.payscale.com/research/AR/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(ARS) $10,360.00 South Africa<http://www.payscale.com/research/ZA/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(ZAR) $14,280.00 Kenya<http://www.payscale.com/research/KE/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(KES) $12,795.00 Hong Kong<http://www.payscale.com/research/HK/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(HKD) $35,558.00

_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------

Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke

_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------

Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke

Nonetheless, we need to push to create a cadre of well paid Kenyan developers who know their worth and are vocal about it. This includes the diaspora who are on this list but not always talking about how much opportunity is out there. I've already met a few high quality developer teams here but there needs to be more of them and those teams need to talk about how great they are so all the other developers know where they should be focusing their attention. -Adam -- Kili.io - OpenStack for Africa: kili.io Musings: twitter.com/varud <https://twitter.com/varud> About Adam: www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 10:27 AM, Erik Hersman <erik@zungu.com> wrote:

There's a *cost of living* in each of these countries that tends to mirrors what the dev/designer rates are.

When a cheeseburger meal at McDonald's in Switzerland will cost you 1400 Ksh ($18), you have a good idea of why the rates are so incredibly high there.

-- Erik Hersman

Ushahidi <http://ushahidi.com/> | iHub <http://ihub.co.ke/> | BRCK<http://brck.com/> @WhiteAfrican <http://twitter.com/whiteafrican>

On Oct 1, 2013, at 10:18 AM, Adam Nelson <adam@varud.com> wrote:

Why?

1. Kenyan developers don't embrace higher paying skills like Python, Ruby, Go, Haskell and instead stick with commodity languages like PHP. 2. Kenyan developers don't negotiate well - and generally take the initial offer instead of pushing for 10-20% more than the offer. Always negotiate the rate and understand the value of long term work vs short term work. If you're good and you can demonstrate that, people will pay. 3. Kenyan developers don't write good CVs and cover letters. A high quality application will get you much farther than submitting a resume written in Word 97 written in a bad font/layout. Getting farther means more well-paying opportunities open up. 4. Kenyan developers don't cultivate high quality online presences (Github, etc...). No team worth its salt will hire a developer without a Github profile. 5. Kenyan developers don't push local managers to hire other high quality developers and take the initiative to create a world class team. 6. Kenyan developers don't quit when they realize that the team/management is mediocre and then suffer because we're the average of the 5 people we spend the most time with.

-- Kili.io - OpenStack for Africa: kili.io Musings: twitter.com/varud <https://twitter.com/varud> About Adam: www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson

On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Evans Marindany <prosnave@gmail.com>wrote:

...

Why is it that Kenyan Developers/designers are among the worst paid in the universe? Src: http://www.hongkiat.com/blog/designers-developers-salaries-worldwide/

Country (Currency) Annual Salary (USD) United States<http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(USD) $49,720.00 Japan <http://job.j-sen.jp/10313/> (JPY) $40,180.00 Australia<http://www.payscale.com/research/AU/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(AUD) $56,071.00 United Kingdom<http://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(GBP) $34,828.00 Italy<http://www.payscale.com/research/IT/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(EUR) $25,820.00 Germany<http://www.payscale.com/research/DE/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(EUR) $45,791.00 France<http://www.payscale.com/research/FR/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(EUR) $24,488.00 Greece<http://www.payscale.com/research/GR/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(EUR) $17,413.00 Switzerland<http://www.payscale.com/research/CH/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(CHF) $71,202.00 Sweden<http://www.payscale.com/research/SE/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(SEK) $31,464.00 Portugal<http://www.payscale.com/research/PT/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(EUR) $48,412.00 Spain<http://www.payscale.com/research/ES/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(EUR) $30,324.00 Russia<http://www.payscale.com/research/RU/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(RUB) $14,504.00 Ireland<http://www.payscale.com/research/IE/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(EUR) $38,844.00 New Zealand<http://www.payscale.com/research/NZ/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(NZD) $37,190.00 Netherlands<http://www.payscale.com/research/NL/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(EUR) $35,828.00 Denmark<http://www.payscale.com/research/DK/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(DKK) $37,398.00 Poland<http://www.payscale.com/research/PL/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(PLN) $11,859.00 Finland<http://www.payscale.com/research/FI/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(EUR) $47,217.00 Austria<http://www.payscale.com/research/AT/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(EUR) $46,522.00 Romania<http://www.payscale.com/research/RO/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(RON) $21,600.00 Belgium<http://www.payscale.com/research/BE/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(EUR) $27,330.00 Egypt<http://www.payscale.com/research/EG/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(EGP) $10,347.00 India<http://www.payscale.com/research/IN/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(INR) $4,482.00 Indonesia<http://www.payscale.com/research/ID/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(IDR) $3,301.00 Malaysia<http://www.payscale.com/research/MY/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(MYR) $13,842.00 Singapore<http://www.payscale.com/research/SG/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(SGD) $26,062.00 Ukraine<http://www.payscale.com/research/UA/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(UAH) $12,000.00 Bahrain (BHD) Not Enough Information Brazil<http://www.payscale.com/research/BR/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(BRL) $26,907.00 Mexico<http://www.payscale.com/research/MX/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(MXN) $16,916.00 Argentina<http://www.payscale.com/research/AR/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(ARS) $10,360.00 South Africa<http://www.payscale.com/research/ZA/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(ZAR) $14,280.00 Kenya<http://www.payscale.com/research/KE/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(KES) $12,795.00 Hong Kong<http://www.payscale.com/research/HK/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(HKD) $35,558.00

_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------

Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke

_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------

Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke

_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------

Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke

+1 Adam On 1 October 2013 10:18, Adam Nelson <adam@varud.com> wrote:

Why?

1. Kenyan developers don't embrace higher paying skills like Python, Ruby, Go, Haskell and instead stick with commodity languages like PHP. 2. Kenyan developers don't negotiate well - and generally take the initial offer instead of pushing for 10-20% more than the offer. Always negotiate the rate and understand the value of long term work vs short term work. If you're good and you can demonstrate that, people will pay. 3. Kenyan developers don't write good CVs and cover letters. A high quality application will get you much farther than submitting a resume written in Word 97 written in a bad font/layout. Getting farther means more well-paying opportunities open up. 4. Kenyan developers don't cultivate high quality online presences (Github, etc...). No team worth its salt will hire a developer without a Github profile. 5. Kenyan developers don't push local managers to hire other high quality developers and take the initiative to create a world class team. 6. Kenyan developers don't quit when they realize that the team/management is mediocre and then suffer because we're the average of the 5 people we spend the most time with.

-- Kili.io - OpenStack for Africa: kili.io Musings: twitter.com/varud <https://twitter.com/varud> About Adam: www.linkedin.com/in/adamcnelson

On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Evans Marindany <prosnave@gmail.com>wrote:

...

Why is it that Kenyan Developers/designers are among the worst paid in the universe? Src: http://www.hongkiat.com/blog/designers-developers-salaries-worldwide/

Country (Currency) Annual Salary (USD) United States<http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(USD) $49,720.00 Japan <http://job.j-sen.jp/10313/> (JPY) $40,180.00 Australia<http://www.payscale.com/research/AU/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(AUD) $56,071.00 United Kingdom<http://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(GBP) $34,828.00 Italy<http://www.payscale.com/research/IT/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(EUR) $25,820.00 Germany<http://www.payscale.com/research/DE/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(EUR) $45,791.00 France<http://www.payscale.com/research/FR/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(EUR) $24,488.00 Greece<http://www.payscale.com/research/GR/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(EUR) $17,413.00 Switzerland<http://www.payscale.com/research/CH/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(CHF) $71,202.00 Sweden<http://www.payscale.com/research/SE/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(SEK) $31,464.00 Portugal<http://www.payscale.com/research/PT/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(EUR) $48,412.00 Spain<http://www.payscale.com/research/ES/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(EUR) $30,324.00 Russia<http://www.payscale.com/research/RU/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(RUB) $14,504.00 Ireland<http://www.payscale.com/research/IE/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(EUR) $38,844.00 New Zealand<http://www.payscale.com/research/NZ/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(NZD) $37,190.00 Netherlands<http://www.payscale.com/research/NL/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(EUR) $35,828.00 Denmark<http://www.payscale.com/research/DK/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(DKK) $37,398.00 Poland<http://www.payscale.com/research/PL/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(PLN) $11,859.00 Finland<http://www.payscale.com/research/FI/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(EUR) $47,217.00 Austria<http://www.payscale.com/research/AT/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(EUR) $46,522.00 Romania<http://www.payscale.com/research/RO/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(RON) $21,600.00 Belgium<http://www.payscale.com/research/BE/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(EUR) $27,330.00 Egypt<http://www.payscale.com/research/EG/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(EGP) $10,347.00 India<http://www.payscale.com/research/IN/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(INR) $4,482.00 Indonesia<http://www.payscale.com/research/ID/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(IDR) $3,301.00 Malaysia<http://www.payscale.com/research/MY/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(MYR) $13,842.00 Singapore<http://www.payscale.com/research/SG/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(SGD) $26,062.00 Ukraine<http://www.payscale.com/research/UA/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(UAH) $12,000.00 Bahrain (BHD) Not Enough Information Brazil<http://www.payscale.com/research/BR/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(BRL) $26,907.00 Mexico<http://www.payscale.com/research/MX/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(MXN) $16,916.00 Argentina<http://www.payscale.com/research/AR/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(ARS) $10,360.00 South Africa<http://www.payscale.com/research/ZA/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(ZAR) $14,280.00 Kenya<http://www.payscale.com/research/KE/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(KES) $12,795.00 Hong Kong<http://www.payscale.com/research/HK/Job=PHP_Web_Developer/Salary>(HKD) $35,558.00

_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------

Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke

_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------

Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke

Interesting view, Adam. I will admit, you are right. I think its because we (Kenya) are at the infancy stage of Web technology development. Most of the colleges that "teach" IT and Web technologies are mediocre. I searched in vain for a good place, before deciding to go online where i finally found peace. Yet, these differences are too big.

@Odhiambo, I beg to differ. A developer here in Kenya can CHOOSE to work for an employer in just about any other country where English is a first language, and if you are good in those skills Adam mentions, one will be paid at par with developers there (with a few limitations, like stock options and 401k etc). I know of one company that used to or still does work exclusively for overseas clients, and that company pays its developers ridiculously well. This is based on my personal experience in a past life :-) On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 10:35 AM, Evans Marindany <prosnave@gmail.com> wrote:

Interesting view, Adam. I will admit, you are right. I think its because we (Kenya) are at the infancy stage of Web technology development. Most of the colleges that "teach" IT and Web technologies are mediocre. I searched in vain for a good place, before deciding to go online where i finally found peace.

Yet, these differences are too big.

_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------

Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke

-- Regards, Peter Karunyu -------------------

The languages Adam speaks of seem to be in low demand, I suppose that's the reason not many people bother to learn them. An interesting article caught my eye at jobstractor.com — the programming language trends review <http://jobstractor.com/monthly-stats>. The company analyzed more than 60,000 job vacancies during 2012 to produce a chart of the most sought-after technologies: Language Jobs PHP 12,664 Java 12,558 Objective C 8,925 SQL 5,165 Android (Java) 4,981 Ruby 3,859 JavaScript 3,742 C# 3,549 C++ 1,908 ActionScript 1,821 Python 1,649 C 1,087 ASP.NET 818 [image: programming language vacancy statistics] Despite developer complaints, demand for PHP and Java (server/Android) remains strong. You would also expect those jobs to require some SQL knowledge although that has a strong showing in its own right.