@kamonye,the f-word n the take-it-or-leave statement spoils your pitch. If it's so good then it shud withstand criticism or negative debate! Why are you so defensive or why do you foresee criticims? On 02/11/2009, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:

Which side of the bed did you wake up from today morning? hehehe...lol! :-))))

On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 12:39 PM, Kevin K. Kamonye <kevin.kamonye@kdn.co.ke>wrote:

...

PS: My intention is not to start a negative and critical debate about this - its purely FYI. This is real. Take it or leave it - thats your f*&#ing problem. -- K. K. Kamonye

...

PS: My intention is not to start a negative and critical debate about this - its purely FYI. This is real. Take it or leave it - thats your f*&#ing problem.

This is official communication from a kdn.co.ke email address and you have the audacity to tell us what our f*&#ing problem is? Kevin your email is stupid beyond belief - even before we get into the technical aspects of the KDN "deal". Very very stupid and rude and childish

My goodness - what the blazes is going on in the IT industry in Kenya? Being unprofessional and vulgar to your customers is a badge of honour?

-- Pamoja

e:daudi.were@gmail.com <e%3Adaudi.were@gmail.com> skype: d.were _______________________________________________

Been looking for details on this. These are the details I need: - Charges of the various bundles - Coverage area (I'm in Kahawa Sukari) - Mode of connection (wimax, ...) -- Regards, Alex

I always tell people in skunkworks that there are mature people on the list(maybe even Kai Wulff himself) so you need to be extra careful with language.Especially when using your real name. We are not all 21 year old geekie techies on this list you know? And im sure even some 21 year olds get offended by some languages that are floated here.... On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 5:31 PM, pithon kamau <pitkag@gmail.com> wrote:

Cant we all live in peace and Harmony?

On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 5:27 PM, Alex Ngatia <alex.ngatia@gmail.com> wrote:

...

...

PS: My intention is not to start a negative and critical debate about this -

...

its purely FYI. This is real. Take it or leave it - thats your f*&#ing problem.

This is official communication from a kdn.co.ke email address and you have the audacity to tell us what our f*&#ing problem is? Kevin your email is stupid beyond belief - even before we get into the technical aspects of the KDN "deal". Very very stupid and rude and childish

My goodness - what the blazes is going on in the IT industry in Kenya? Being unprofessional and vulgar to your customers is a badge of honour?

-- Pamoja

e:daudi.were@gmail.com <e%3Adaudi.were@gmail.com> skype: d.were _______________________________________________

Been looking for details on this. These are the details I need:

- Charges of the various bundles - Coverage area (I'm in Kahawa Sukari) - Mode of connection (wimax, ...)

-- Regards,

Alex

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general

-- Pithon K. Kamau Mobile: 0723 588705 Tel: +254 20 2039220 Website: www.heartbitsolutions.com/ www.pithonkamau.com Website Design, Domain Registration, Website Hosting, Corporate Email Solutions, Website Maintainance, Website Marketing, Logo Design and Branding, Bulk SMS Solutions, Computer Hardware and Maintainance, Network Design and Set Up.............

"Love Your Neighbour as You Love Yourself"

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general

-- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- God is not an excuse for lack of discipline -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.

I guess its a first warning? An apology would help.... On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 5:58 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:

I hope Mr Kamonye has not cursed himself out of a job.

On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 5:48 PM, Joram Mwinamo <joram.mwinamo@gmail.com> wrote:

...

I always tell people in skunkworks that there are mature people on the list(maybe even Kai Wulff himself) so you need to be extra careful with language.Especially when using your real name. We are not all 21 year old geekie techies on this list you know? And im sure even some 21 year olds get offended by some languages that are floated here....

---

Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general

-- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- God is not an excuse for lack of discipline -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.

Wow, skunks-ke has a very peculiar mob-mentality. One person casts a stone and a (high-tech) lynch mob joins the (low-tech) fray. Sheesh people! Get a life and let the gentleman deal with his issues. If you have nothing *constructive* to say, whether positive or negative, then let others with *constructive* comments take the floor. Exasperated beyond measure, saidi

If you don't see the problem I would love to the company you work for On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 7:18 PM, saidimu apale <saidimu@gmail.com> wrote:

Wow, skunks-ke has a very peculiar mob-mentality. One person casts a stone and a (high-tech) lynch mob joins the (low-tech) fray. Sheesh people! Get a life and let the gentleman deal with his issues. If you have nothing *constructive* to say, whether positive or negative, then let others with *constructive* comments take the floor.

Exasperated beyond measure, saidi _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science:  http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi:     http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general

Here's the thing -- if you post any communication using your company email, don't be surprised if its construed as the company position! All he's done is cause a PR nightmare for his employer On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 10:36 AM, ndungu stephen <ndungustephen@gmail.com> wrote:

Wow,

I dont think he really speaks for KDN, In a subset population (X), facing direction (N) - you will always get a small number (x) trying to face the opposite direction (S)...

 For those who are going to attend the meeting with KDN on tuesday, today is it?..You can raise these issues.

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science:  http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi:     http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general

Michuki, this is not a matter of being objective. It's a matter of reality. What you forget is that there are many instances where email can and are forwarded to someone outside the list. And then what would happen? We might know within the list that the opinions are personal but what if someone forwarded that email to KDN's MD for instance, or a customer unaware of skunkworks. There would be no context then. Then what? I don't dispute his passion but all i'm saying is let it be in no doubt it is his personal opinion. Don't use your company email if you intend to cross a line. On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 11:06 AM, Michuki Mwangi <michuki@swiftkenya.com> wrote:

Hi Conrad, et al,

Rad! wrote:

...

Here's the thing -- if you post any communication using your company email, don't be surprised if its construed as the company position!

I have to say IMHO that this is not an objective or encouraging approach to take for any list or list member.  Holding such a position is likely to cause less contribution from folks who are well clued on matters and more lurking which already exists on this list.

While the language used in the initial email was somewhat distasteful to most - i would want to believe that the views expressed on this list are (in most cases unless otherwise stated) those of the individual and not those of their affiliations.

We need not forget that for some of us, we are quite passionate about what we do and this is often expressed in our postings. I would then hope that we are all able to realise such and appreciate (where possible) and not provoke further emotions beyond what is necessary.

In conclusion, i would vote to push for a rule that the opinion shared on this list are those of an individual and not a reflection of their affiliations unless stated otherwise.

my2cents.

Mich _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science:  http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi:     http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general

Conrad, Should have replied sooner! :) Rad! wrote:

Michuki, this is not a matter of being objective. It's a matter of reality. What you forget is that there are many instances where email can and are forwarded to someone outside the list. And then what would happen? We might know within the list that the opinions are personal but what if someone forwarded that email to KDN's MD for instance, or a customer unaware of skunkworks. There would be no context then. Then what?

I would beg to differ with your opinion here for one reason. There's lots of email and online identity theft FYI. Therefore if you read every email forwarded and you believe its contents - you are likely to end up in jeopardy. Am certain the Nigeria 419's have had their day in the sun as a result of holding such a position when it comes to email in this day and age. Digital Signatures will often cost you nothing to have and a more secure way to validate the source.

I don't dispute his passion but all i'm saying is let it be in no doubt it is his personal opinion. Don't use your company email if you intend to cross a line.

The intention is identity and not to pass judgement. Your statement here appears to place judgement on anyone comments based on the senders email address. Incase you have not noticed this has lead to far too many hidden identities on the local lists which partly regresses the lists objectives. IMHO an email address is the persons online identity. Most importantly, if we are to add more credibility to the comments being posted on this list and grow, its more likely that this will be achieved when folks post with their faces-on as opposed to when wearing masks. But thats just my opinion and not that of my employer or anyone am affiliated to or the company that hosts my email account :). Regards, Michuki

Along the lines of Michuki's suggestions: - Is there a way for list admins to hide, obscure or mangle the sender's email address? This may solve the official/non-official email issue. We definitely need more involvement on the list, anything to encourage that is welcome. Your tech future is being decided by others, it's time to wake up and smell the (digital) coffee. Get involved and stake a claim to your future. saidi On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 3:06 AM, Michuki Mwangi <michuki@swiftkenya.com>wrote:

Hi Conrad, et al,

Rad! wrote:

...

Here's the thing -- if you post any communication using your company email, don't be surprised if its construed as the company position!

I have to say IMHO that this is not an objective or encouraging approach to take for any list or list member. Holding such a position is likely to cause less contribution from folks who are well clued on matters and more lurking which already exists on this list.

While the language used in the initial email was somewhat distasteful to most - i would want to believe that the views expressed on this list are (in most cases unless otherwise stated) those of the individual and not those of their affiliations.

We need not forget that for some of us, we are quite passionate about what we do and this is often expressed in our postings. I would then hope that we are all able to realise such and appreciate (where possible) and not provoke further emotions beyond what is necessary.

In conclusion, i would vote to push for a rule that the opinion shared on this list are those of an individual and not a reflection of their affiliations unless stated otherwise.

my2cents.

Mich _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general

IMHO, am afraid we shall be creating a mob mentality instead.

Hmm... interesting point, food for thought. Though I think mob-mentality will always happen, with or without obscured email-addresses (exhibit A: the poor chap from KDN). I agree that verifying, and standing behind, one's identity is crucial. But how can this be achieved in a public mailing-list context? I'm curious: for those who don't actively participate on the list, what hinders them? (I'm assuming list membership implies interest in the topics being discussed). saidi On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 11:06 AM, Michuki Mwangi <michuki@swiftkenya.com>wrote:

Hi Saidi,

saidimu apale wrote:

...

Along the lines of Michuki's suggestions:

- Is there a way for list admins to hide, obscure or mangle the sender's email address? This may solve the official/non-official email issue.

IMHO, am afraid we shall be creating a mob mentality instead.

...

We definitely need more involvement on the list, anything to encourage that is welcome.

I fully agree.

...

Your tech future is being decided by others, it's time to wake up and smell the (digital) coffee. Get involved and stake a claim to your future.

Without a mask i hope :).

Cheers,

Michuki

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I think that generally in a public forum there are those things that can easily offend or form permanent perceptions in the minds of those who might have something to do with your future (tenders or employment) and in a list like this , those things could be 1.Politics 2.Religion 3.Spam 4. Abusive language(or insinuations of such) If we steer clear of those discussions and items, then chances of offending people could be much less. I dont see why any of those 4 have to feature in a tech forum with diverse opinions and views Plus it DOES matter where you are coming from(email wise). If you are working for someone and using their domain, im sure they want to be represented well. Otherwise use your gmail or yahoo. Names are brands. If my domain extension is safaricom.com , or governmentofkenya.co.ke then people will perceive me through safaricom or GOK lenses. If its mwtfk.com then people dont know what to think cos its not a brand that represents something . if a person uses a personal mail, even if we know them from other circles, we take it to be their personal opinion. If they are using company mail(and endorsing a product in the process) then we take it they are speaking for the company..... My 3 cents On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 7:55 PM, Michuki Mwangi <michuki@swiftkenya.com>wrote:

saidimu apale wrote:

...

...

IMHO, am afraid we shall be creating a mob mentality instead.

Hmm... interesting point, food for thought. Though I think mob-mentality will always happen, with or without obscured email-addresses (exhibit A: the poor chap from KDN). I agree that verifying, and standing behind, one's identity is crucial. But how can this be achieved in a public mailing-list context?

I think its all about perceptions.

...

I'm curious: for those who don't actively participate on the list, what hinders them? (I'm assuming list membership implies interest in the topics being discussed).

IMHO, it varies from one individual to another. However the important thing to note is that the lists culture can either be encouraging or a complete putt-off.

Regards,

Michuki. _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general

-- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- God is not an excuse for lack of discipline -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.

On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 7:06 PM, Michuki Mwangi <michuki@swiftkenya.com> wrote:

...

Your tech future is being decided by others, it's time to wake up and smell the (digital) coffee. Get involved and stake a claim to your future.

Without a mask i hope :).

Unless someone works for a spying agency or whatever espionage outfits out there in circulation... then they should conceal their identities,,, but wait a minute,,, are they not supposed to be like "totally invisible"? ~ without faked ID opinions? C'mon say what you, mean what you say, and do what you say and mean and stand by it!