@Rahim, I too have had many OTs etc. It would upset other members who were not interested in such things. Infact, OT was suugested to handle that. Then another suggestion came in on Adverts. All I'm saying is that the Web gives us a better chance at organizing the contributions without any objections or the rest. On the web you can advertise, rant about cars etc without affecting others. Also consider this : A lot of the new threads we are going to do in August would have been shouted down as Adverts... while really we learn more about other technologies and newer deveopments. The mailing list has soo many disadvantages. Rgds. On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 5:36 PM, [watchman] <skunkingrahim@gmail.com> wrote:

Guys.

Correct me if i'm wrong here but as per my feelings, i enjoy having constant updates on Mail. If there is a way to streamline things yes, maybe we wouldnt kill the post.

But i like the mails coming in. I don't feel they're intrusive in any way.

I am responsible for a lot of the advert posts.

watchman

@Oliver, pls read my response to watchman. The web gives us a better chance at diversity. :-) On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 5:48 PM, Oliver Ndegwa <olie.ndegwa@gmail.com> wrote:

No better way to put it watchman!!!! Long live skunks mails!!!

Thank you my friend. We need solutions. Asante. :-) On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 6:04 PM, Oliver Ndegwa <olie.ndegwa@gmail.com> wrote:

However, where there is a will there is a way. lets find it..

Oliver

I like accessing via mail and honestly wouldnt really take up the web. On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 3:30 AM, Steve Obbayi <steve@sobbayi.com> wrote:

Guys! Guys! using a forum or WP would not kill the mailing list. Isn't it possible to update the WP content via email... yes it is... can you receive alerts via email... yes you can. so those who are worried about loosing the mailling list effect have nothing to worry about. As @Aki @Rahim and the rest put it... we are not loosing the mailling list experience, we are gaining the web experience and more

Steve Obbayi

----- Original Message ----- From: "aki" <aki275@googlemail.com> To: "Skunkworks Mailing List" <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 11:07:53 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] The Mailing List is responsible for killing content in Skunksworks KE!

Thank you my friend. We need solutions. Asante. :-)

On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 6:04 PM, Oliver Ndegwa <olie.ndegwa@gmail.com> wrote:

...

However, where there is a will there is a way. lets find it..

Oliver

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke

All im trying to say is that there many of us who access skunkworks via mail and forcing us to use web is asking us to leave. If the web content can be synchronised with mail well and good. On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 9:45 AM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:

@Jacob, please suggest solutions. That is the spirirt of Skunkworks KE. :-)

On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 9:00 AM, Jacob Odada <jacob.odada@gmail.com> wrote:

...

I like accessing via mail and honestly wouldnt really take up the web.

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke

Since there is a demand for keeping the list as it is as well as making it available on the web the only way is to keep the existing mailing list function as I see it. This means the web app must also be able to: 1. Subscribing to each new post for the whole web app No problem (even for phpbb there is a hack at http://www.phpbbhacks.com/) 2. Posting by email in reply to a subscription email Harder. Would require a specific id in the mail subject to be able to put the response to the right thread. Also would require some kind of API for the web app for posting unless hacking db directly. 3. New post from email Really hard to get into the right category. Maybe just put in a general category. The created thread could then be moved by an admin to the correct category. Once the last two points are solved the switch could be done. Mailing list for those who want that, web for those who want that :) Sure it would be nice with a Stackoverflow like app but I would be very happy with just a working forum as it would be a great improvement in terms of how I use the list. Maybe just start with a free forum software (installation time 1 hour), install add-on for 1. and write the code for 2,3. Would probably be able to be up within two weeks including testing. When the simple forum app has been up for a while it would be easy to evaluate further development ideas and improvements. I may sound boring, negative, old or all that but "Think big - Start small" is often a good way to get things done :) On 07/27/2010 06:04 PM, Oliver Ndegwa wrote:

@Aki. I totally agree with you 100% but will need to find a proper change management method that will work for everyone and that will ensure we maintain the trend that has taken long time and effort and loyalty to build.

Have you seen how people react when they find no mail from skunkies in a day.. That speaks volumes of what to expect.if they were to be abandoned.

However, where there is a will there is a way. lets find it..

Oliver

@brainiac I have to say that I disagree. I think it simply comes down to how the individual would like to get skunkworks content. My main use of skunkworks is to find out where to get network and computer related equipment since many of the shops in Kenya do not have a website and it is hard to know where to get things if you do not have the right connections. I also enjoy second hand sales announcements of the above. The second one is Kenya specific tech service provider info and info on how products are used with providers in Kenya. How reliable a service from an ISP is, who can code SIM card applications, how do I use the Orange modem with Ubuntu etc In other words everything related specifically to Kenya tech that I can't find by searching for it. If I have a SQL problem I go to a SQL forum, if I have a programming question I go to a site dedicated to the language in question. I usually find the answers without even asking anything since someone usually has had the same problem. I enjoy answering a few of the tech questions but they could usually have been solved easily by just searching for them. I am aware of that the lists initial intention was to solve any tech problem anyone may have (?) but to me this is a too wide subject for a mailing list and ineffective. I do however respect the people who still want it to be that way. I don't mind the off topics either but it would be nice to have them separated from the rest so that I could go through them on a Sunday and laugh when I have nothing to do. My only problem is the unstructured way in how a mailing list work. Since many ppl like getting skunkworks on a mailing list I definitely think it must stay in this format. My only wish is to be able to have a different and more structured way of viewing it. Since the list more or less is skunkworks I do not believe in separate solutions as this would split the users but an integration instead as suggested below. A more structured view for web users and things stay the same for the mailing list users. On 07/27/2010 07:46 PM, [ Brainiac ] wrote:

I see two differing opinions here,

1: the puritan view, the one that feels injured that skunkworks has been watered down to something irrecognizable and as such seeks radical measures to restore that by creating a mechanism that ensures only meaningful content is posted.

2: the comfort zone view that is gotten so used to the current setup that the moving will require some inertia.

Whichever you belong to, there are two possible actions with two possible outcomes:

a) retaining the current setup and working on a "skunkworks puritans" kind of setup where "sane" and meaningful dialogue is conducted. Leaving the current mailing list setup to wither and die in its own vomit. (yeah, ive always wanted to say that).

b) Shock therapy, erasing skunkworks and asking members to move, or force-migrating them to some other platform like stack overflow, then whoever is uncomfortable can figure out what to do himself.

The possible outcomes are i ) A lean membership contributing skunks only dialogue. ii) two groups possibly representing a class divide between the can dos and the cant dos (when all thats being talked about is hard core tech, some will naturally keep quiet since they don't have much to say).

1 + a) => i 1 + b) => i 2 + a) =>ii 2 + b =>i

According to me, it all depends on what outcome we hope to achieve.

On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 7:13 PM, Jonas | Lamu Software <jonas@lamusoftware.com <mailto:jonas@lamusoftware.com>> wrote:

Since there is a demand for keeping the list as it is as well as making it available on the web the only way is to keep the existing mailing list function as I see it.

This means the web app must also be able to:

1. Subscribing to each new post for the whole web app No problem (even for phpbb there is a hack at http://www.phpbbhacks.com/)

2. Posting by email in reply to a subscription email Harder. Would require a specific id in the mail subject to be able to put the response to the right thread. Also would require some kind of API for the web app for posting unless hacking db directly.

3. New post from email Really hard to get into the right category. Maybe just put in a general category. The created thread could then be moved by an admin to the correct category.

Once the last two points are solved the switch could be done. Mailing list for those who want that, web for those who want that :)

Sure it would be nice with a Stackoverflow like app but I would be very happy with just a working forum as it would be a great improvement in terms of how I use the list.

Maybe just start with a free forum software (installation time 1 hour), install add-on for 1. and write the code for 2,3. Would probably be able to be up within two weeks including testing.

When the simple forum app has been up for a while it would be easy to evaluate further development ideas and improvements.

I may sound boring, negative, old or all that but "Think big - Start small" is often a good way to get things done :)

On 07/27/2010 06:04 PM, Oliver Ndegwa wrote:

@Aki. I totally agree with you 100% but will need to find a proper change management method that will work for everyone and that will ensure we maintain the trend that has taken long time and effort and loyalty to build.

Have you seen how people react when they find no mail from skunkies in a day.. That speaks volumes of what to expect.if they were to be abandoned.

However, where there is a will there is a way. lets find it..

Oliver