Plant oil cooking stove
Hello skunks, this may not be your everyday discussion, nonetheless, this still is the most likely group i would think of asking. I deliberately refuse to OFFTOPIC it. Here is the challenge, adapt or develop a cooking stove that uses plant oil. Castor, coconut, elianto, etc. Im thinking if volumes are worked up due to this, you would only need to buy one oil, for the stove and the pan. Anyway, the challenge is the physical characteristics of viscousity, and the carbon deposits after running an hour. There is one done by siemens called the 'protos' just that the stove is in two pieces and still cost is a problem. Any willing creative thinkers?
there this enterprise complhence outsourcing that has an amazing stove that uses molases based thick fuel .i saw this at naks show Heres the #of the bis manager 0720200745 paul chege murunga this is not a pitch dont know the guy but the more alternative energies we use the better for and the stove is fantastically efficient On 10/24/09, [ Brainiac ] <arebacollins@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello skunks, this may not be your everyday discussion, nonetheless, this still is the most likely group i would think of asking. I deliberately refuse to OFFTOPIC it.
Here is the challenge, adapt or develop a cooking stove that uses plant oil. Castor, coconut, elianto, etc. Im thinking if volumes are worked up due to this, you would only need to buy one oil, for the stove and the pan. Anyway, the challenge is the physical characteristics of viscousity, and the carbon deposits after running an hour. There is one done by siemens called the 'protos' just that the stove is in two pieces and still cost is a problem. Any willing creative thinkers? _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general
________________________________ From: matere lusitche <kenyabizideas@gmail.com> To: Skunkworks Forum <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Sent: Sun, October 25, 2009 6:12:14 AM Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] Plant oil cooking stove there this enterprise complhence outsourcing that has an amazing stove that uses molases based thick fuel .i saw this at naks show Heres the #of the bis manager 0720200745 paul chege murunga this is not a pitch dont know the guy but the more alternative energies we use the better for and the stove is fantastically efficient On 10/24/09, [ Brainiac ] <arebacollins@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello skunks, this may not be your everyday discussion, nonetheless, this still is the most likely group i would think of asking. I deliberately refuse to OFFTOPIC it.
Here is the challenge, adapt or develop a cooking stove that uses plant oil. Castor, coconut, elianto, etc. Im thinking if volumes are worked up due to this, you would only need to buy one oil, for the stove and the pan. Anyway, the challenge is the physical characteristics of viscousity, and the carbon deposits after running an hour. There is one done by siemens called the 'protos' just that the stove is in two pieces and still cost is a problem. Any willing creative thinkers? _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general
On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 8:01 PM, [ Brainiac ] <arebacollins@gmail.com>wrote:
Here is the challenge, adapt or develop a cooking stove that uses plant oil. Castor, coconut, elianto, etc. Im thinking if volumes are worked up due to this, you would only need to buy one oil, for the stove and the pan. Anyway, the challenge is the physical characteristics of viscousity, and the carbon deposits after running an hour. There is one done by siemens called the 'protos' just that the stove is in two pieces and still cost is a problem. Any willing creative thinkers?
Hello Brainac aka Areba... :-) some problems with using cooking oils. The normal burning heat temperature produced not hot enough to produce that blue flame useful for cooking. Like trying to use a candle flame to cook? Also, atomizing using compression will require how many bars on the psi scale?
@aki not soo much, actually , Bosch (Ive always wondered how the pronunciation is done) have developed one called the protos ( http://w1.siemens.com/responsibility/en/sustainable/protos.htm), using more or less the same technology as the old kerosine lamps and stoves. Only problem i have with them is the barrel for pressurizing is separate from the burner, making it look like some kind of gas cooker & cylinder layout. Updates: 1: Jatropha is turning out to be a big hoax, Im working on a fuller document with images, production data and real life experience from all over. Check this <http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=321651365174> note for a sneak. 2: Coconut is good for making biodiesel, but generally, it is good to go as a diesel as is. Some brave kenyans have risen to the occassion, promising me that we first start with biodiesel / diesel -> biodiesel alone -> coco oil/diesel ->coco oil / biodiesel and finally coco oil alone. All this within about one year. here<http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/note.php?note_id=323031440174&ref=mf>is another note on the same. On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 9:40 PM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 8:01 PM, [ Brainiac ] <arebacollins@gmail.com> wrote:
Here is the challenge, adapt or develop a cooking stove that uses plant oil. Castor, coconut, elianto, etc. Im thinking if volumes are worked up due to this, you would only need to buy one oil, for the stove and the pan. Anyway, the challenge is the physical characteristics of viscousity, and the carbon deposits after running an hour. There is one done by siemens called the 'protos' just that the stove is in two pieces and still cost is a problem. Any willing creative thinkers?
Hello Brainac aka Areba... :-) some problems with using cooking oils. The normal burning heat temperature produced not hot enough to produce that blue flame useful for cooking. Like trying to use a candle flame to cook? Also, atomizing using compression will require how many bars on the psi scale? _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general
On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 5:07 AM, [ Brainiac ] <arebacollins@gmail.com> wrote:
2: Coconut is good for making biodiesel, but generally, it is good to go as a diesel as is. Some brave kenyans have risen to the occassion, promising me that we first start with biodiesel / diesel -> biodiesel alone -> coco oil/diesel ->coco oil / biodiesel and finally coco oil alone. All this within about one year. here is another note on the same.
Bio-Fuel is a hoax. The thermodynamics of creating bio-fuel is negative (non-renewable energy input is greater than energy output). There are agri-business / non-governmental lobbies who have interests in subsidizing an inefficient process.
@ashok i would say wrong. Some maybe, but not all. Here is my simple rationale, if mumias were producing ethanol , they would do it at less than ten bob a liter. Petrol engines can run the stuff straight, but it has less energy, by a factor of 0.7, which would leave it costing just over 10, say even 20 per equivalent energy liter. This would automatically make billions for the company, farmers would earn more and net energy is positive. 2. Biodiesel is where i have a problem. Many have been advocating; modify the oil to run on an unmodified engine, i believe modifying the engine to run on unmodified fuel is the way to go. Total cost of ownership is low. But just in case, my project is not funded by anyone, its a purely business venture. If it succeeds, im sure youll have less optimism. Au? On 10/28/09, ashok+skunkworks@parliaments.info <ashok+skunkworks@parliaments.info> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 5:07 AM, [ Brainiac ] <arebacollins@gmail.com> wrote:
2: Coconut is good for making biodiesel, but generally, it is good to go as a diesel as is. Some brave kenyans have risen to the occassion, promising me that we first start with biodiesel / diesel -> biodiesel alone -> coco oil/diesel ->coco oil / biodiesel and finally coco oil alone. All this within about one year. here is another note on the same.
Bio-Fuel is a hoax. The thermodynamics of creating bio-fuel is negative (non-renewable energy input is greater than energy output). There are agri-business / non-governmental lobbies who have interests in subsidizing an inefficient process. _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general
On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 1:01 PM, [ Brainiac ] <arebacollins@gmail.com> wrote:
@ashok i would say wrong. Some maybe, but not all. Here is my simple rationale, if mumias were producing ethanol , they would do it at less than ten bob a liter. Petrol engines can run the stuff straight, but it has less energy, by a factor of 0.7, which would leave it costing just over 10, say even 20 per equivalent energy liter. This would automatically make billions for the company, farmers would earn more and net energy is positive.
I seriously doubt whether the numbers add up. 1) land use - if you want to use sugar-cane ethanol on a large scale -- you need to grow a lot of sugarcane on a lot of land. 2) food security - in a country which is not self-sufficient for food production - it means more arable land for food turned over to fuel production.(i.e. it will result in higher food prices ... increase in general costs... food riots .... but you can use the fuel to drive an suv) 3) energy use - general infrastructure (roads , bureaucracy, transport, etc.) is very poor. which means growing, transporting and processing sugarcane to produce ethanol will probably require the same amount (or more) of (petroleum based: fuel, fertilizer) energy that will be output by the end product ethanol. instead, you have an equatorial country where you have sunshine all year round. Ethanol from sugarcane is 'cellulosic' ethanol -- sunshine photosynthesised by the plant -- which you are then again converting back to fuel. Notice the inefficiencies of doing that when you could be harnessing the power at the source (the sun) whose energy production is always constant.
Interesting viewpoint. One thing though is that as always, biofuels will never be the energy of the future, that reputation lies with something as abundant as water, more in the line of fuel cells n all that. However, these liquid biofuels will always be the gap that will bridge infrastructural shift from fossil fuel based energy to more renewable sources.
From my viewpoint, the food vs fuel debate is more often a lot of B. Many people that argue on this rarely appreciate the true value of land. The truth of the matter is that to meet the food needs of this country, we would probably just need land half the size of central province. I use the land size viz a viz agricultural productivity of israel as a light benchmark. Drips, shade nets, etc etc. For the rest of kenya, careful planning would probably give enough land to offset a big portion of our fuel needs. Remember, each year we spend more than 110b shillings to buy fuel, even if at break even point, the government would be doing much to re circulate that kind of money back into the economy.
Onto the thermodynamic perspective. This again is not necessarily a straightforward issue. Even if the process of making biofuel is energy inefficient, and the energy inputs come from non fossil oil sources, the net effect is a transformation of energy into a form more usable. Eg, you get one btu from firewood for heat used to dry coconut and end up with a 0.5 btu equivalent in the biodiesel. What you have basically done is enabled cars to run off firewood, and as long the downstream is not affected (de forestation et al), then you have saved the country one btu equivalent of energy. On 10/28/09, ashok+skunkworks@parliaments.info <ashok+skunkworks@parliaments.info> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 1:01 PM, [ Brainiac ] <arebacollins@gmail.com> wrote:
@ashok i would say wrong. Some maybe, but not all. Here is my simple rationale, if mumias were producing ethanol , they would do it at less than ten bob a liter. Petrol engines can run the stuff straight, but it has less energy, by a factor of 0.7, which would leave it costing just over 10, say even 20 per equivalent energy liter. This would automatically make billions for the company, farmers would earn more and net energy is positive.
I seriously doubt whether the numbers add up.
1) land use - if you want to use sugar-cane ethanol on a large scale -- you need to grow a lot of sugarcane on a lot of land.
2) food security - in a country which is not self-sufficient for food production - it means more arable land for food turned over to fuel production.(i.e. it will result in higher food prices ... increase in general costs... food riots .... but you can use the fuel to drive an suv)
3) energy use - general infrastructure (roads , bureaucracy, transport, etc.) is very poor. which means growing, transporting and processing sugarcane to produce ethanol will probably require the same amount (or more) of (petroleum based: fuel, fertilizer) energy that will be output by the end product ethanol.
instead, you have an equatorial country where you have sunshine all year round. Ethanol from sugarcane is 'cellulosic' ethanol -- sunshine photosynthesised by the plant -- which you are then again converting back to fuel. Notice the inefficiencies of doing that when you could be harnessing the power at the source (the sun) whose energy production is always constant. _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general
participants (5)
-
[ Brainiac ] -
aki -
ashok+skunkworks＠parliaments.info -
Bernard Owuor -
matere lusitche