Re: [Skunkworks] [kictanet] The Premier B.Sc. Computer Science Programme in Kenya
Hello everyone, Most of the contributions on this thread are focusing on the curricula and the finished product-ready for employment. Being an SCI graduate myself, I was left wondering where, if at all we shall apply all that knowledge. And who says that SCI* must produce employable graduates* anyway? We need not forget that the University must also 'churn out' researchers and entrepreneurs. Its very easy and obvious for all of us to extoll on the virtues of SCI producing graduates who are relevant to the industry and job market at the moment. However, it must also be noted that alot of students would gladly take up and scale their projects and various innovations to higher levels if only they were given the means to do so. Thus, if the University and SCI in particular can create an environment and a culture that encourages students to come up with market viable projects, and then create structures that will enable the projects/products/innovations to go to market, that to me would be a big plus, not only for the students but also for the country. Maybe SCI needs to find a way to either get a group of investors/mentors/.advisors who would partner with the students in developing market relevant solutions instead of waiting for the students to graduate and look for a safe secure job. Thanks in advance. Martin S. Njuguna Digital Vision Limited c:+254 721 440 543 e:martin@digitalvision.co.ke <e%3Amartin@digitalvision.co.ke> w: http://www.digitalvision.co.ke Skype: digitalv.ke
On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 9:21 PM, Harry Delano <harry@comtelsys.co.ke>wrote:
John W,
I agree with you to an extend. However, I feel that clustering of all these disciplines in one particular curriculum, either way or Cramming one course with all that can possibly be taught in class, and meet what the employer might be seeking for may not be practical in the long
run. Infact this seems to be the case with the current curricula, where most of the disciplines within the current course outlines really never get applied anywhere. This is wasted knowledge. Just like, much of the physics and the Chemistry you and me learnt in High school may just have been a real total 'waste' of time, effort, and money. It might only serve to create some walking encyclopedias with knowledge that never gets applied. Let us develop Specialized Training Curriculas way before even the university entry..
Muthoni, if you would ask me, I would recommend that even before you overhaul the current University curriculum, a crucial section of stakeholders that comprise the High School, and probably the upper primary School fraternity, need to be brought into the fold in order to develop and adopt what I would call a "Bottoms-up" approach in arriving at curriculum that flows right through the entire Education system as currently structured, with vision 2030 in mind.
Of course the other end of the production - The employers, who are consumers of the Finished products, are equally important, but also will need to make "Realistic" demands on the graduands.. When you demand that you need graduates who have done computer Science, Electronic Engineering etc, all compressed in one, it tends to lock out deserving prospects for the job. It may be cost-saving to look at it that way but in the long run it won't augur well for skills development that we have at our disposal.
Please cast the net far and wide, it's just as a multistakeholder issue, at hand, just as the Constitutional Review is..
Regards, Harry
------------------------------ *From:* kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke[mailto: kictanet-bounces+harry <kictanet-bounces%2Bharry>=comtelsys.co.ke@ lists.kictanet.or.ke] *On Behalf Of *Walubengo J *Sent:* Wednesday, November 11, 2009 10:18 AM *To:* harry@comtelsys.co.ke *Cc:* skunk; waema@uonbi.ac.ke; moturi; sci-acad@uonbi.ac.ke; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] The Premier B.Sc. Computer Science Programme in Kenya
Muthoni M,
I think its good to see Academia going back to the industry to ask for input in curricula development. Previous University Dons would rather claim it was their sole prerogative to say what needs to be taught and when and how it would be taught.
Indeed just looking at the recent post from Eng. Kariuki regarding "ICT Jobs at Huawei" it shows the gap between industry and academia. Whereas most ICT University Curricula continues to be strictly segmented along EITHER "Computer Science/Info Technology" OR "Electrical/Telco Engineering" most employers seem to be looking for BOTH CompScience/IT and Engineering components from their candidates.
The Challenge then becomes, should IT students be taught some Telco-engineering concepts or Should Electrical and other Engineers be taught IT concepts? I know I have not answered your question regarding inputs for the Computers Science program, but it is just that your question provokes more questions than answers...
walu.
--- On *Tue, 11/10/09, Muthoni Masinde <muthoni@uonbi.ac.ke>* wrote:
From: Muthoni Masinde <muthoni@uonbi.ac.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] The Premier B.Sc. Computer Science Programme in Kenya To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "moturi" <moturi@uonbi.ac.ke>, "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>, "sci-acad@uonbi.ac.ke" < sci-acad@uonbi.ac.ke>, waema@uonbi.ac.ke Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 2:39 PM
Dear Nancy, I agree with you; we actually review our curriculum every 4 years; the current one is 4 years old and that is why we are reviewing it. We have always done it through the approach you have described but this time round, we would like to incorporate stakeholders views. Quality assurance issues are well taken care of.
The issue of specialisation from 2nd year seems to be favoured by many and we consider this.
Thank you very much for the comments and indeed I will be glad to receive more ideas from ICSIT-JKUAT.
Best regards, Muthoni
On 11/10/09 12:03 AM, "n_macharia@yahoo.co.uk<http://mc/compose?to=n_macharia@yahoo.co.uk>" <n_macharia@yahoo.co.uk <http://mc/compose?to=n_macharia@yahoo.co.uk>> wrote:
Muthoni,
This is a brilliant idea. In my view you benefit by eliciting very valuable and resourceful ideas for the Curriculum from experienced and sharpened staff.
An all stakeholder involvement in either curriculum review or development is an IUCEA and CHE requirement. Its the right process for both academic quality assurance and towards offering demand driven(ICT industry, Kenyas vision
and custom built training.
The revision is long overdue. In any case the requirement is one cycle which is in the period of five yrs.
On CS, the direction focus should be specialisation from 2nd Year of study after the foundation units.
We in academia, believe in sharing "cable", here knowledge and ideas. Will share this with ICSIT colleagues in JKUAT and come back to you.
Nancy Macharia Deputy Director ICSIT JKUAT Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Tuma Barua <tumabarua@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=tumabarua@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 17:19:40 To: <n_macharia@yahoo.co.uk<http://mc/compose?to=n_macharia@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<http://mc/compose?to=kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> ; moturi<moturi@uonbi.ac.ke <http://mc/compose?to=moturi@uonbi.ac.ke>>; < waema@uonbi.ac.ke <http://mc/compose?to=waema@uonbi.ac.ke>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] The Premier B.Sc. Computer Science Programme in Kenya
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The Universities need to emancipate themselves from the idea that we study in order to secure a well paying job. They should focus on training scientists and Engineers to solve social problems affecting the society using tested and tried principles or new status quo-challenging ideas that can then become laws. Computer Scientists should do their part and Electrical Engineers should do their part. The Universities should drive the industry and not the industry dictating what the Universities should teach.We have Sociology and Commerce graduates implementing networks and doing a good job while at it. The point here being that it doesn't take a good Computer Science or Engineering degree to support a network built on a certain vendors equipment. Doing a cerification course on the Vendors platform is typically enough. If the issue is just employability of Graduates, then simply adding elements of Computer Science to Electrical Engineering and Electrical Engineering elements to Computer Science should do the trick but this should be done in order to better Equip the Graduates in order to solve problems and not to make them more employable. On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Martin Njuguna <mnjuguna@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello everyone,
Most of the contributions on this thread are focusing on the curricula and the finished product-ready for employment.
Being an SCI graduate myself, I was left wondering where, if at all we shall apply all that knowledge. And who says that SCI* must produce employable graduates* anyway? We need not forget that the University must also 'churn out' researchers and entrepreneurs.
Its very easy and obvious for all of us to extoll on the virtues of SCI producing graduates who are relevant to the industry and job market at the moment. However, it must also be noted that alot of students would gladly take up and scale their projects and various innovations to higher levels if only they were given the means to do so. Thus, if the University and SCI in particular can create an environment and a culture that encourages students to come up with market viable projects, and then create structures that will enable the projects/products/innovations to go to market, that to me would be a big plus, not only for the students but also for the country. Maybe SCI needs to find a way to either get a group of investors/mentors/.advisors who would partner with the students in developing market relevant solutions instead of waiting for the students to graduate and look for a safe secure job.
Thanks in advance.
Martin S. Njuguna Digital Vision Limited c:+254 721 440 543 e:martin@digitalvision.co.ke <e%3Amartin@digitalvision.co.ke> w: http://www.digitalvision.co.ke Skype: digitalv.ke
On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 9:21 PM, Harry Delano <harry@comtelsys.co.ke>wrote:
John W,
I agree with you to an extend. However, I feel that clustering of all these disciplines in one particular curriculum, either way or Cramming one course with all that can possibly be taught in class, and meet what the employer might be seeking for may not be practical in the long
run. Infact this seems to be the case with the current curricula, where most of the disciplines within the current course outlines really never get applied anywhere. This is wasted knowledge. Just like, much of the physics and the Chemistry you and me learnt in High school may just have been a real total 'waste' of time, effort, and money. It might only serve to create some walking encyclopedias with knowledge that never gets applied. Let us develop Specialized Training Curriculas way before even the university entry..
Muthoni, if you would ask me, I would recommend that even before you overhaul the current University curriculum, a crucial section of stakeholders that comprise the High School, and probably the upper primary School fraternity, need to be brought into the fold in order to develop and adopt what I would call a "Bottoms-up" approach in arriving at curriculum that flows right through the entire Education system as currently structured, with vision 2030 in mind.
Of course the other end of the production - The employers, who are consumers of the Finished products, are equally important, but also will need to make "Realistic" demands on the graduands.. When you demand that you need graduates who have done computer Science, Electronic Engineering etc, all compressed in one, it tends to lock out deserving prospects for the job. It may be cost-saving to look at it
that way but in the long run it won't augur well for skills development that we have at our disposal.
Please cast the net far and wide, it's just as a multistakeholder issue, at hand, just as the Constitutional Review is..
Regards, Harry
------------------------------ *From:* kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke[mailto: kictanet-bounces+harry <kictanet-bounces%2Bharry>=comtelsys.co.ke@ lists.kictanet.or.ke] *On Behalf Of *Walubengo J *Sent:* Wednesday, November 11, 2009 10:18 AM *To:* harry@comtelsys.co.ke *Cc:* skunk; waema@uonbi.ac.ke; moturi; sci-acad@uonbi.ac.ke; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
*Subject:* Re: [kictanet] The Premier B.Sc. Computer Science Programme in Kenya
Muthoni M,
I think its good to see Academia going back to the industry to ask for input in curricula development. Previous University Dons would rather claim it was their sole prerogative to say what needs to be taught and when and how it would be taught.
Indeed just looking at the recent post from Eng. Kariuki regarding "ICT Jobs at Huawei" it shows the gap between industry and academia. Whereas most ICT University Curricula continues to be strictly segmented along EITHER "Computer Science/Info Technology" OR "Electrical/Telco Engineering" most employers seem to be looking for BOTH CompScience/IT and Engineering components from their candidates.
The Challenge then becomes, should IT students be taught some Telco-engineering concepts or Should Electrical and other Engineers be taught IT concepts? I know I have not answered your question regarding inputs for the Computers Science program, but it is just that your question provokes more questions than answers...
walu.
--- On *Tue, 11/10/09, Muthoni Masinde <muthoni@uonbi.ac.ke>* wrote:
From: Muthoni Masinde <muthoni@uonbi.ac.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] The Premier B.Sc. Computer Science Programme in Kenya To: jwalu@yahoo.com Cc: "moturi" <moturi@uonbi.ac.ke>, "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" < kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>, "sci-acad@uonbi.ac.ke" < sci-acad@uonbi.ac.ke>, waema@uonbi.ac.ke Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 2:39 PM
Dear Nancy, I agree with you; we actually review our curriculum every 4 years; the current one is 4 years old and that is why we are reviewing it. We have always done it through the approach you have described but this time round, we would like to incorporate stakeholders views. Quality assurance issues are well taken care of.
The issue of specialisation from 2nd year seems to be favoured by many and we consider this.
Thank you very much for the comments and indeed I will be glad to receive more ideas from ICSIT-JKUAT.
Best regards, Muthoni
On 11/10/09 12:03 AM, "n_macharia@yahoo.co.uk<http://mc/compose?to=n_macharia@yahoo.co.uk>" <n_macharia@yahoo.co.uk <http://mc/compose?to=n_macharia@yahoo.co.uk>> wrote:
Muthoni,
This is a brilliant idea. In my view you benefit by eliciting very valuable and resourceful ideas for the Curriculum from experienced and sharpened staff.
An all stakeholder involvement in either curriculum review or development is an IUCEA and CHE requirement. Its the right process for both academic quality assurance and towards offering demand driven(ICT industry, Kenyas vision 2030) and custom built training.
The revision is long overdue. In any case the requirement is one cycle which is in the period of five yrs.
On CS, the direction focus should be specialisation from 2nd Year of study after the foundation units.
We in academia, believe in sharing "cable", here knowledge and ideas. Will share this with ICSIT colleagues in JKUAT and come back to you.
Nancy Macharia Deputy Director ICSIT JKUAT Sent from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Tuma Barua <tumabarua@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=tumabarua@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 17:19:40 To: <n_macharia@yahoo.co.uk<http://mc/compose?to=n_macharia@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<http://mc/compose?to=kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> ; moturi<moturi@uonbi.ac.ke <http://mc/compose?to=moturi@uonbi.ac.ke>>; <waema@uonbi.ac.ke <http://mc/compose?to=waema@uonbi.ac.ke>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] The Premier B.Sc. Computer Science Programme in Kenya
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its clients. The University will monitor and review its quality performance from time to time through an effective implementation of the Quality Management System based on ISO 9001:2008 standard.
University of Nairobi Website: http://www.uonbi.ac.ke/ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
----------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
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The University of Nairobi is committed to providing quality services to all its clients. The University will monitor and review its quality performance from time to time through an effective implementation of the Quality Management System based on ISO 9001:2008 standard.
University of Nairobi Website: http://www.uonbi.ac.ke/ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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participants (2)
-
John Doe -
Martin Njuguna