I seriously hope that this http://bit.ly/famTA5 is just some fanatical reporting at Nation Media (would not be shocked) but if so, if these words came out of your mouth bwana PS, THAT THE PRICE WARS IN THE MOBILE INDUSTRY MIGHT DERAIL THE NEW CONSTITUTION. Are you for Real? Is that not cartel behaviour right there? So now what, are you going to "adjust" the lowest interconnection fees upwards to normalize all this? so that what? Safaricom can make more money? Playing on the public with FUD now? what happened to market forces? who would run their company to a grind just to offer the cheapest? Revenue collection? how about we first spend PRUDENTLY what we collect? how about ALL of us pay taxes for starters? and why not just LOWER taxes and increase the tax bracket? I have never been disappointed like i have on reading this. If it looks like Impunity, Smells like Impunity , guess what it is....
On 18/01/2011, [Brainiac] <arebacollins@gmail.com> wrote:
I seriously hope that this http://bit.ly/famTA5 is just some fanatical reporting at Nation Media (would not be shocked) but if so, if these words came out of your mouth bwana PS,
THAT THE PRICE WARS IN THE MOBILE INDUSTRY MIGHT DERAIL THE NEW CONSTITUTION.
Are you for Real? Is that not cartel behaviour right there? So now what, are you going to "adjust" the lowest interconnection fees upwards to normalize all this? so that what? Safaricom can make more money?
Playing on the public with FUD now? what happened to market forces? who would run their company to a grind just to offer the cheapest? Revenue collection? how about we first spend PRUDENTLY what we collect? how about ALL of us pay taxes for starters? and why not just LOWER taxes and increase the tax bracket?
I have never been disappointed like i have on reading this.
If it looks like Impunity, Smells like Impunity , guess what it is....
I read the story about five times to see where the lowering of the voice calls would derail the new constitution, but I could not find anything to that effect. I thought, in my little understanding, when politicians failed to approve the names of people fronted for the constitutional commissions, (Commission on the Implementation of the Constitution and the Commission of Revenue Allocation) was the direct derailment of the constitution. But on Mobile phones 'wars'? That's new to me. Safaricom also complains of Airtel's price reduction as a lead to collapse in the industry.... how now? I thought that should be Airtel's risk and not a threat in anyway to Safaricom's growth, in anyway. I think I need to get back to my books! -- *Solomon Mbũrũ Kamau* ***************************************************** *Man is a gregarious animal and enjoys agreement as cows will graze all the same way to the side of a hill!* AND *It is better to die in dignity than in the ignominy of ambiguous generosity! * http://smiley2.wordpress.com http://mburu.sikika.co.ke
This is more an economic discussion than it is a digital one What he means is that the price war will deny the govt of revenues through Tax which is needed heavily to finance the new constitutions implementation It had been predicted anyway that taxation will go up anyway since what is currently connected wont be enough...brace yourselves.... On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:09 PM, Solomon Mburu Kamau <solo.mburu@gmail.com>wrote:
On 18/01/2011, [Brainiac] <arebacollins@gmail.com> wrote:
I seriously hope that this http://bit.ly/famTA5 is just some fanatical reporting at Nation Media (would not be shocked) but if so, if these words came out of your mouth bwana PS,
THAT THE PRICE WARS IN THE MOBILE INDUSTRY MIGHT DERAIL THE NEW CONSTITUTION.
Are you for Real? Is that not cartel behaviour right there? So now what, are you going to "adjust" the lowest interconnection fees upwards to normalize all this? so that what? Safaricom can make more money?
Playing on the public with FUD now? what happened to market forces? who would run their company to a grind just to offer the cheapest? Revenue collection? how about we first spend PRUDENTLY what we collect? how about ALL of us pay taxes for starters? and why not just LOWER taxes and increase the tax bracket?
I have never been disappointed like i have on reading this.
If it looks like Impunity, Smells like Impunity , guess what it is....
I read the story about five times to see where the lowering of the voice calls would derail the new constitution, but I could not find anything to that effect. I thought, in my little understanding, when politicians failed to approve the names of people fronted for the constitutional commissions, (Commission on the Implementation of the Constitution and the Commission of Revenue Allocation) was the direct derailment of the constitution. But on Mobile phones 'wars'? That's new to me.
Safaricom also complains of Airtel's price reduction as a lead to collapse in the industry.... how now? I thought that should be Airtel's risk and not a threat in anyway to Safaricom's growth, in anyway.
I think I need to get back to my books! -- *Solomon Mbũrũ Kamau*
***************************************************** *Man is a gregarious animal and enjoys agreement as cows will graze all the same way to the side of a hill!*
AND
*It is better to die in dignity than in the ignominy of ambiguous generosity! *
http://smiley2.wordpress.com http://mburu.sikika.co.ke _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:11 PM, Joram Mwinamo <joram.mwinamo@gmail.com> wrote:
This is more an economic discussion than it is a digital one What he means is that the price war will deny the govt of revenues through Tax which is needed heavily to finance the new constitutions implementation
How will a mobile price war deny government of tax revenues ?
low pricing = less tax collected If im paying 3 bob per minute and the govt takes 10%(just as an example) thats 30cts per minute for govt if its 10% of 1 bob thats 10 cts per minute When everyone if forced to take prices down to 1 bob.....then less revenue overrall On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:29 PM, <ashok+skunkworks@parliaments.info<ashok%2Bskunkworks@parliaments.info>
wrote:
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:11 PM, Joram Mwinamo <joram.mwinamo@gmail.com> wrote:
This is more an economic discussion than it is a digital one What he means is that the price war will deny the govt of revenues through Tax which is needed heavily to finance the new constitutions implementation
How will a mobile price war deny government of tax revenues ? _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.
@Joram maybe at 3bob, you spend only 2 hours a day on phone, but at 1bob, you spend 10 hours a day, so more revenue - simple mathematics ./Ok3ch On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:34 PM, Joram Mwinamo <joram.mwinamo@gmail.com> wrote:
low pricing = less tax collected If im paying 3 bob per minute and the govt takes 10%(just as an example) thats 30cts per minute for govt if its 10% of 1 bob thats 10 cts per minute When everyone if forced to take prices down to 1 bob.....then less revenue overrall
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:29 PM, <ashok+skunkworks@parliaments.info> wrote:
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:11 PM, Joram Mwinamo <joram.mwinamo@gmail.com> wrote:
This is more an economic discussion than it is a digital one What he means is that the price war will deny the govt of revenues through Tax which is needed heavily to finance the new constitutions implementation
How will a mobile price war deny government of tax revenues ? _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
The PS should have said the government will get less tax and not derailment of the constitution implementation. I think this is just a way of making Kenyans guilty of swtiching to a lower tarrif, lest the 'constitution will not be implemented'. Seriously, how many taxes do we pay directly and or indirectly to the government? Talk about a selfish government. On 18/01/2011, Joram Mwinamo <joram.mwinamo@gmail.com> wrote:
low pricing = less tax collected
If im paying 3 bob per minute and the govt takes 10%(just as an example) thats 30cts per minute for govt if its 10% of 1 bob thats 10 cts per minute
When everyone if forced to take prices down to 1 bob.....then less revenue overrall
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:29 PM, <ashok+skunkworks@parliaments.info<ashok%2Bskunkworks@parliaments.info>
wrote:
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:11 PM, Joram Mwinamo <joram.mwinamo@gmail.com> wrote:
This is more an economic discussion than it is a digital one What he means is that the price war will deny the govt of revenues through Tax which is needed heavily to finance the new constitutions implementation
How will a mobile price war deny government of tax revenues ? _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.
-- *Solomon Mbũrũ Kamau* ***************************************************** *Man is a gregarious animal and enjoys agreement as cows will graze all the same way to the side of a hill!* AND *It is better to die in dignity than in the ignominy of ambiguous generosity! * http://smiley2.wordpress.com http://mburu.sikika.co.ke
@solomon Its called *FUD - Fear Uncertainty and Doubt*. Guys up there are reading a lot of bad bad books. On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:43 PM, Solomon Mburu Kamau <solo.mburu@gmail.com>wrote:
The PS should have said the government will get less tax and not derailment of the constitution implementation.
I think this is just a way of making Kenyans guilty of swtiching to a lower tarrif, lest the 'constitution will not be implemented'.
Seriously, how many taxes do we pay directly and or indirectly to the government?
Talk about a selfish government.
On 18/01/2011, Joram Mwinamo <joram.mwinamo@gmail.com> wrote:
low pricing = less tax collected
If im paying 3 bob per minute and the govt takes 10%(just as an example) thats 30cts per minute for govt if its 10% of 1 bob thats 10 cts per minute
When everyone if forced to take prices down to 1 bob.....then less revenue overrall
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:29 PM, <ashok+skunkworks@parliaments.info <ashok%2Bskunkworks@parliaments.info> <ashok%2Bskunkworks@parliaments.info<ashok%252Bskunkworks@parliaments.info>
wrote:
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:11 PM, Joram Mwinamo < joram.mwinamo@gmail.com> wrote:
This is more an economic discussion than it is a digital one What he means is that the price war will deny the govt of revenues through Tax which is needed heavily to finance the new constitutions implementation
How will a mobile price war deny government of tax revenues ? _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.
-- *Solomon Mbũrũ Kamau*
***************************************************** *Man is a gregarious animal and enjoys agreement as cows will graze all the same way to the side of a hill!*
AND
*It is better to die in dignity than in the ignominy of ambiguous generosity! *
http://smiley2.wordpress.com http://mburu.sikika.co.ke _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- *“The twentieth century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: the growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy”* ~ Alex Carey ~
Well it is within the democratic right of the PS to comment on the issue at least he gave an opinion which i tend to agree with but need some more education on the pricing of calls, i also think CCK has attained a certain level of independence contrary to what our good friend Brainiac says, (i stand to be corrected on this) we need input from economists on the long term effects of this price changes to the industry considering the fact that we have not yet attained Universal Access, there are some parts like Archers Post in Eastern that dont have very good coverage, i have an uncanny feeling they might not be sustainable in the long run, i would love to hear the opinion of technocrats on this lists, either way the government needs to set a level playing field to guarantee stability of businesses. Best Regards On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:43 PM, Solomon Mburu Kamau <solo.mburu@gmail.com>wrote:
The PS should have said the government will get less tax and not derailment of the constitution implementation.
I think this is just a way of making Kenyans guilty of swtiching to a lower tarrif, lest the 'constitution will not be implemented'.
Seriously, how many taxes do we pay directly and or indirectly to the government?
Talk about a selfish government.
On 18/01/2011, Joram Mwinamo <joram.mwinamo@gmail.com> wrote:
low pricing = less tax collected
If im paying 3 bob per minute and the govt takes 10%(just as an example) thats 30cts per minute for govt if its 10% of 1 bob thats 10 cts per minute
When everyone if forced to take prices down to 1 bob.....then less revenue overrall
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:29 PM, <ashok+skunkworks@parliaments.info <ashok%2Bskunkworks@parliaments.info> <ashok%2Bskunkworks@parliaments.info<ashok%252Bskunkworks@parliaments.info>
wrote:
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:11 PM, Joram Mwinamo < joram.mwinamo@gmail.com> wrote:
This is more an economic discussion than it is a digital one What he means is that the price war will deny the govt of revenues through Tax which is needed heavily to finance the new constitutions implementation
How will a mobile price war deny government of tax revenues ? _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.
-- *Solomon Mbũrũ Kamau*
***************************************************** *Man is a gregarious animal and enjoys agreement as cows will graze all the same way to the side of a hill!*
AND
*It is better to die in dignity than in the ignominy of ambiguous generosity! *
http://smiley2.wordpress.com http://mburu.sikika.co.ke _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno
@barrack I have not torn into CCK at any point in my discourse, just expressed my exasperation at the inaction. But just tell me so i understand, 1: Is the tax rate that GOK has on safaricom higher than the one levied on other similarly strained (resources, support...e.t.c) providers? 2: Is it proper (in the natural justice realm) to assuage these providers by giving them a "level playing field" tilted in the favour of safaricom? 3: Is whether or not the pricing model is sustainable a decision that GOK is responsible for? or is it CCK or is it the Ksh 2M++ a month CEO and management team of safaricom. The Way I see it, GOK is subverting a Strategy (Airtel has clearly declared that the pricing wars to them are a strategy to raise market share) to retain Safaricom's dominance, hence revenue (through shareholding). Just how is this good / fair / balanced action by the relevant authorities? lastly, whether the taxman is meeting the targets or not should be an issue of performance and (if my memory serves me right) a constitutionally required participatory action. Tying the implementation of the constitution to the price wars in the Telko is to me drawing the line way way too far. Its politics, not economics. On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:55 PM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>wrote:
Well it is within the democratic right of the PS to comment on the issue at least he gave an opinion which i tend to agree with but need some more education on the pricing of calls, i also think CCK has attained a certain level of independence contrary to what our good friend Brainiac says, (i stand to be corrected on this) we need input from economists on the long term effects of this price changes to the industry considering the fact that we have not yet attained Universal Access, there are some parts like Archers Post in Eastern that dont have very good coverage, i have an uncanny feeling they might not be sustainable in the long run, i would love to hear the opinion of technocrats on this lists, either way the government needs to set a level playing field to guarantee stability of businesses.
Best Regards
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:43 PM, Solomon Mburu Kamau < solo.mburu@gmail.com> wrote:
The PS should have said the government will get less tax and not derailment of the constitution implementation.
I think this is just a way of making Kenyans guilty of swtiching to a lower tarrif, lest the 'constitution will not be implemented'.
Seriously, how many taxes do we pay directly and or indirectly to the government?
Talk about a selfish government.
On 18/01/2011, Joram Mwinamo <joram.mwinamo@gmail.com> wrote:
low pricing = less tax collected
If im paying 3 bob per minute and the govt takes 10%(just as an example) thats 30cts per minute for govt if its 10% of 1 bob thats 10 cts per minute
When everyone if forced to take prices down to 1 bob.....then less revenue overrall
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:29 PM, <ashok+skunkworks@parliaments.info<ashok%2Bskunkworks@parliaments.info> <ashok%2Bskunkworks@parliaments.info<ashok%252Bskunkworks@parliaments.info>
wrote:
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:11 PM, Joram Mwinamo < joram.mwinamo@gmail.com> wrote:
This is more an economic discussion than it is a digital one What he means is that the price war will deny the govt of revenues through Tax which is needed heavily to finance the new constitutions implementation
How will a mobile price war deny government of tax revenues ? _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.
-- *Solomon Mbũrũ Kamau*
***************************************************** *Man is a gregarious animal and enjoys agreement as cows will graze all the same way to the side of a hill!*
AND
*It is better to die in dignity than in the ignominy of ambiguous generosity! *
http://smiley2.wordpress.com http://mburu.sikika.co.ke _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- *“The twentieth century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: the growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy”* ~ Alex Carey ~
You have a point Brainiac, there are many factors in your argument which need to be tackled and as such we may need expert opinion on some issues, a corporate entity is treated as a person and as the saying goes one mans meat is another mans poison, what are the implications of certain moves on new market entrants? How will the other Telcos survive in the market?, this is where regulation comes in to ensure a piece of cake for everyone. On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 1:09 PM, [Brainiac] <arebacollins@gmail.com> wrote:
@barrack I have not torn into CCK at any point in my discourse, just expressed my exasperation at the inaction. But just tell me so i understand,
1: Is the tax rate that GOK has on safaricom higher than the one levied on other similarly strained (resources, support...e.t.c) providers? 2: Is it proper (in the natural justice realm) to assuage these providers by giving them a "level playing field" tilted in the favour of safaricom? 3: Is whether or not the pricing model is sustainable a decision that GOK is responsible for? or is it CCK or is it the Ksh 2M++ a month CEO and management team of safaricom.
The Way I see it, GOK is subverting a Strategy (Airtel has clearly declared that the pricing wars to them are a strategy to raise market share) to retain Safaricom's dominance, hence revenue (through shareholding). Just how is this good / fair / balanced action by the relevant authorities?
lastly, whether the taxman is meeting the targets or not should be an issue of performance and (if my memory serves me right) a constitutionally required participatory action. Tying the implementation of the constitution to the price wars in the Telko is to me drawing the line way way too far. Its politics, not economics.
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:55 PM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com
wrote:
Well it is within the democratic right of the PS to comment on the issue at least he gave an opinion which i tend to agree with but need some more education on the pricing of calls, i also think CCK has attained a certain level of independence contrary to what our good friend Brainiac says, (i stand to be corrected on this) we need input from economists on the long term effects of this price changes to the industry considering the fact that we have not yet attained Universal Access, there are some parts like Archers Post in Eastern that dont have very good coverage, i have an uncanny feeling they might not be sustainable in the long run, i would love to hear the opinion of technocrats on this lists, either way the government needs to set a level playing field to guarantee stability of businesses.
Best Regards
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:43 PM, Solomon Mburu Kamau < solo.mburu@gmail.com> wrote:
The PS should have said the government will get less tax and not derailment of the constitution implementation.
I think this is just a way of making Kenyans guilty of swtiching to a lower tarrif, lest the 'constitution will not be implemented'.
Seriously, how many taxes do we pay directly and or indirectly to the government?
Talk about a selfish government.
On 18/01/2011, Joram Mwinamo <joram.mwinamo@gmail.com> wrote:
low pricing = less tax collected
If im paying 3 bob per minute and the govt takes 10%(just as an example) thats 30cts per minute for govt if its 10% of 1 bob thats 10 cts per minute
When everyone if forced to take prices down to 1 bob.....then less revenue overrall
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:29 PM, <ashok+skunkworks@parliaments.info<ashok%2Bskunkworks@parliaments.info> <ashok%2Bskunkworks@parliaments.info<ashok%252Bskunkworks@parliaments.info>
wrote:
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:11 PM, Joram Mwinamo < joram.mwinamo@gmail.com> wrote:
This is more an economic discussion than it is a digital one What he means is that the price war will deny the govt of revenues through Tax which is needed heavily to finance the new constitutions implementation
How will a mobile price war deny government of tax revenues ? _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.
-- *Solomon Mbũrũ Kamau*
***************************************************** *Man is a gregarious animal and enjoys agreement as cows will graze all the same way to the side of a hill!*
AND
*It is better to die in dignity than in the ignominy of ambiguous generosity! *
http://smiley2.wordpress.com http://mburu.sikika.co.ke _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- *“The twentieth century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: the growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy”*
~ Alex Carey ~
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 1:18 PM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>wrote:
You have a point Brainiac, there are many factors in your argument which need to be tackled and as such we may need expert opinion on some issues, a corporate entity is treated as a person and as the saying goes one mans meat is another mans poison, what are the implications of certain moves on new market entrants? How will the other Telcos survive in the market?, this is where regulation comes in to ensure a piece of cake for everyone.
Before making this debate so complicated, is Airtel's move interpreted as a means towards crippling the mobile industry? Why is this position not being applied on the Internet Service Provision industry then? We always heard promises of "prices will come down" but when they do now, the govt is gonna lose revenue? Puleease! -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Damn!!
I fail to understand where and when it fell into the govt's ambit to ensure that all telcos eat a piece of the cake, isn't every corporate body supposed to ensure its own survival? V On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 1:18 PM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>wrote:
You have a point Brainiac, there are many factors in your argument which need to be tackled and as such we may need expert opinion on some issues, a corporate entity is treated as a person and as the saying goes one mans meat is another mans poison, what are the implications of certain moves on new market entrants? How will the other Telcos survive in the market?, this is where regulation comes in to ensure a piece of cake for everyone.
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 1:09 PM, [Brainiac] <arebacollins@gmail.com>wrote:
@barrack I have not torn into CCK at any point in my discourse, just expressed my exasperation at the inaction. But just tell me so i understand,
1: Is the tax rate that GOK has on safaricom higher than the one levied on other similarly strained (resources, support...e.t.c) providers? 2: Is it proper (in the natural justice realm) to assuage these providers by giving them a "level playing field" tilted in the favour of safaricom? 3: Is whether or not the pricing model is sustainable a decision that GOK is responsible for? or is it CCK or is it the Ksh 2M++ a month CEO and management team of safaricom.
The Way I see it, GOK is subverting a Strategy (Airtel has clearly declared that the pricing wars to them are a strategy to raise market share) to retain Safaricom's dominance, hence revenue (through shareholding). Just how is this good / fair / balanced action by the relevant authorities?
lastly, whether the taxman is meeting the targets or not should be an issue of performance and (if my memory serves me right) a constitutionally required participatory action. Tying the implementation of the constitution to the price wars in the Telko is to me drawing the line way way too far. Its politics, not economics.
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:55 PM, Barrack Otieno < otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:
Well it is within the democratic right of the PS to comment on the issue at least he gave an opinion which i tend to agree with but need some more education on the pricing of calls, i also think CCK has attained a certain level of independence contrary to what our good friend Brainiac says, (i stand to be corrected on this) we need input from economists on the long term effects of this price changes to the industry considering the fact that we have not yet attained Universal Access, there are some parts like Archers Post in Eastern that dont have very good coverage, i have an uncanny feeling they might not be sustainable in the long run, i would love to hear the opinion of technocrats on this lists, either way the government needs to set a level playing field to guarantee stability of businesses.
Best Regards
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:43 PM, Solomon Mburu Kamau < solo.mburu@gmail.com> wrote:
The PS should have said the government will get less tax and not derailment of the constitution implementation.
I think this is just a way of making Kenyans guilty of swtiching to a lower tarrif, lest the 'constitution will not be implemented'.
Seriously, how many taxes do we pay directly and or indirectly to the government?
Talk about a selfish government.
On 18/01/2011, Joram Mwinamo <joram.mwinamo@gmail.com> wrote:
low pricing = less tax collected
If im paying 3 bob per minute and the govt takes 10%(just as an example) thats 30cts per minute for govt if its 10% of 1 bob thats 10 cts per minute
When everyone if forced to take prices down to 1 bob.....then less revenue overrall
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:29 PM, <ashok+skunkworks@parliaments.info<ashok%2Bskunkworks@parliaments.info> <ashok%2Bskunkworks@parliaments.info<ashok%252Bskunkworks@parliaments.info>
wrote:
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:11 PM, Joram Mwinamo < joram.mwinamo@gmail.com> wrote: > This is more an economic discussion than it is a digital one > What he means is that the price war will deny the govt of revenues through > Tax which is needed heavily to finance the new constitutions implementation >
How will a mobile price war deny government of tax revenues ? _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.
-- *Solomon Mbũrũ Kamau*
***************************************************** *Man is a gregarious animal and enjoys agreement as cows will graze all the same way to the side of a hill!*
AND
*It is better to die in dignity than in the ignominy of ambiguous generosity! *
http://smiley2.wordpress.com http://mburu.sikika.co.ke _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- *“The twentieth century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: the growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy”*
~ Alex Carey ~
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Victor Ngeny Mobile +254713957356 GTalk: victormaritim Twitter: @ngeny Yahoo: vikngne Skype: victor.ngeny
I fail to understand where and when it fell into the govt's ambit to ensure that all telcos eat a piece of the cake, isn't every corporate body supposed to ensure its own survival?
V EXACTLY MY POINT!. On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Victor Ngeny <victormaritim@gmail.com>wrote:
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 1:18 PM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>wrote:
You have a point Brainiac, there are many factors in your argument which need to be tackled and as such we may need expert opinion on some issues, a corporate entity is treated as a person and as the saying goes one mans meat is another mans poison, what are the implications of certain moves on new market entrants? How will the other Telcos survive in the market?, this is where regulation comes in to ensure a piece of cake for everyone.
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 1:09 PM, [Brainiac] <arebacollins@gmail.com>wrote:
@barrack I have not torn into CCK at any point in my discourse, just expressed my exasperation at the inaction. But just tell me so i understand,
1: Is the tax rate that GOK has on safaricom higher than the one levied on other similarly strained (resources, support...e.t.c) providers? 2: Is it proper (in the natural justice realm) to assuage these providers by giving them a "level playing field" tilted in the favour of safaricom? 3: Is whether or not the pricing model is sustainable a decision that GOK is responsible for? or is it CCK or is it the Ksh 2M++ a month CEO and management team of safaricom.
The Way I see it, GOK is subverting a Strategy (Airtel has clearly declared that the pricing wars to them are a strategy to raise market share) to retain Safaricom's dominance, hence revenue (through shareholding). Just how is this good / fair / balanced action by the relevant authorities?
lastly, whether the taxman is meeting the targets or not should be an issue of performance and (if my memory serves me right) a constitutionally required participatory action. Tying the implementation of the constitution to the price wars in the Telko is to me drawing the line way way too far. Its politics, not economics.
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:55 PM, Barrack Otieno < otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:
Well it is within the democratic right of the PS to comment on the issue at least he gave an opinion which i tend to agree with but need some more education on the pricing of calls, i also think CCK has attained a certain level of independence contrary to what our good friend Brainiac says, (i stand to be corrected on this) we need input from economists on the long term effects of this price changes to the industry considering the fact that we have not yet attained Universal Access, there are some parts like Archers Post in Eastern that dont have very good coverage, i have an uncanny feeling they might not be sustainable in the long run, i would love to hear the opinion of technocrats on this lists, either way the government needs to set a level playing field to guarantee stability of businesses.
Best Regards
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:43 PM, Solomon Mburu Kamau < solo.mburu@gmail.com> wrote:
The PS should have said the government will get less tax and not derailment of the constitution implementation.
I think this is just a way of making Kenyans guilty of swtiching to a lower tarrif, lest the 'constitution will not be implemented'.
Seriously, how many taxes do we pay directly and or indirectly to the government?
Talk about a selfish government.
On 18/01/2011, Joram Mwinamo <joram.mwinamo@gmail.com> wrote:
low pricing = less tax collected
If im paying 3 bob per minute and the govt takes 10%(just as an example) thats 30cts per minute for govt if its 10% of 1 bob thats 10 cts per minute
When everyone if forced to take prices down to 1 bob.....then less revenue overrall
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:29 PM, <ashok+skunkworks@parliaments.info<ashok%2Bskunkworks@parliaments.info> <ashok%2Bskunkworks@parliaments.info<ashok%252Bskunkworks@parliaments.info>
> wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:11 PM, Joram Mwinamo < joram.mwinamo@gmail.com> > wrote: > > This is more an economic discussion than it is a digital one > > What he means is that the price war will deny the govt of revenues > through > > Tax which is needed heavily to finance the new constitutions > implementation > > > > How will a mobile price war deny government of tax revenues ? > _______________________________________________ > Skunkworks mailing list > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
-- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.
-- *Solomon Mbũrũ Kamau*
***************************************************** *Man is a gregarious animal and enjoys agreement as cows will graze all the same way to the side of a hill!*
AND
*It is better to die in dignity than in the ignominy of ambiguous generosity! *
http://smiley2.wordpress.com http://mburu.sikika.co.ke _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- *“The twentieth century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: the growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy”*
~ Alex Carey ~
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Victor Ngeny
Mobile +254713957356 GTalk: victormaritim Twitter: @ngeny Yahoo: vikngne Skype: victor.ngeny
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- *“The twentieth century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: the growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy”* ~ Alex Carey ~
Here is one that doesnt require an economist to think through. Scrap all taxes that are collected at the salary stage (cause some guys have found a way to get away from them) so everyone goes home with 100% of their salary. Then using some computation spread that into VAT charged on goods and services (say even raise it to 18%) . That way the poor will pay taxes, the rich will pay taxes... On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 1:18 PM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com>wrote:
You have a point Brainiac, there are many factors in your argument which need to be tackled and as such we may need expert opinion on some issues, a corporate entity is treated as a person and as the saying goes one mans meat is another mans poison, what are the implications of certain moves on new market entrants? How will the other Telcos survive in the market?, this is where regulation comes in to ensure a piece of cake for everyone.
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 1:09 PM, [Brainiac] <arebacollins@gmail.com>wrote:
@barrack I have not torn into CCK at any point in my discourse, just expressed my exasperation at the inaction. But just tell me so i understand,
1: Is the tax rate that GOK has on safaricom higher than the one levied on other similarly strained (resources, support...e.t.c) providers? 2: Is it proper (in the natural justice realm) to assuage these providers by giving them a "level playing field" tilted in the favour of safaricom? 3: Is whether or not the pricing model is sustainable a decision that GOK is responsible for? or is it CCK or is it the Ksh 2M++ a month CEO and management team of safaricom.
The Way I see it, GOK is subverting a Strategy (Airtel has clearly declared that the pricing wars to them are a strategy to raise market share) to retain Safaricom's dominance, hence revenue (through shareholding). Just how is this good / fair / balanced action by the relevant authorities?
lastly, whether the taxman is meeting the targets or not should be an issue of performance and (if my memory serves me right) a constitutionally required participatory action. Tying the implementation of the constitution to the price wars in the Telko is to me drawing the line way way too far. Its politics, not economics.
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:55 PM, Barrack Otieno < otieno.barrack@gmail.com> wrote:
Well it is within the democratic right of the PS to comment on the issue at least he gave an opinion which i tend to agree with but need some more education on the pricing of calls, i also think CCK has attained a certain level of independence contrary to what our good friend Brainiac says, (i stand to be corrected on this) we need input from economists on the long term effects of this price changes to the industry considering the fact that we have not yet attained Universal Access, there are some parts like Archers Post in Eastern that dont have very good coverage, i have an uncanny feeling they might not be sustainable in the long run, i would love to hear the opinion of technocrats on this lists, either way the government needs to set a level playing field to guarantee stability of businesses.
Best Regards
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:43 PM, Solomon Mburu Kamau < solo.mburu@gmail.com> wrote:
The PS should have said the government will get less tax and not derailment of the constitution implementation.
I think this is just a way of making Kenyans guilty of swtiching to a lower tarrif, lest the 'constitution will not be implemented'.
Seriously, how many taxes do we pay directly and or indirectly to the government?
Talk about a selfish government.
On 18/01/2011, Joram Mwinamo <joram.mwinamo@gmail.com> wrote:
low pricing = less tax collected
If im paying 3 bob per minute and the govt takes 10%(just as an example) thats 30cts per minute for govt if its 10% of 1 bob thats 10 cts per minute
When everyone if forced to take prices down to 1 bob.....then less revenue overrall
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:29 PM, <ashok+skunkworks@parliaments.info<ashok%2Bskunkworks@parliaments.info> <ashok%2Bskunkworks@parliaments.info<ashok%252Bskunkworks@parliaments.info>
wrote:
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:11 PM, Joram Mwinamo < joram.mwinamo@gmail.com> wrote: > This is more an economic discussion than it is a digital one > What he means is that the price war will deny the govt of revenues through > Tax which is needed heavily to finance the new constitutions implementation >
How will a mobile price war deny government of tax revenues ? _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.
-- *Solomon Mbũrũ Kamau*
***************************************************** *Man is a gregarious animal and enjoys agreement as cows will graze all the same way to the side of a hill!*
AND
*It is better to die in dignity than in the ignominy of ambiguous generosity! *
http://smiley2.wordpress.com http://mburu.sikika.co.ke _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- *“The twentieth century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: the growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy”*
~ Alex Carey ~
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Barrack O. Otieno Afriregister Ltd (Kenya) www.afrire <http://www.afriregister.com>gister.bi, www.afriregister.com<http://www.afriergister.com> <http://www.afriregister.com>ICANN accredited registrar +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- *“The twentieth century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: the growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy”* ~ Alex Carey ~
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:34 PM, Joram Mwinamo <joram.mwinamo@gmail.com> wrote:
low pricing = less tax collected If im paying 3 bob per minute and the govt takes 10%(just as an example) thats 30cts per minute for govt if its 10% of 1 bob thats 10 cts per minute When everyone if forced to take prices down to 1 bob.....then less revenue overrall
you mean "loss of hypothetical revenue" ? you actually trust the government more to allow them to fix costs higher ...than the free market deciding a lower lost ?!! what about loss of opportunity costs (i.e. higher communication costs --> reduced competitiveness ) if calling costs are artificially fixed ? there are many better ways to cut costs -- starting by cutting some ridiculously high government salaries.
I think letting the market decide prices is the way to go. Fixing prices, unless absolutely neccessary like in the case of oil prices may be counter-productive. It is true the Government may see reduced taxes in the telecommunications sectors, but taxes should not be an end in themselves. Savings made in cheaper communication costs will be used elsewhere and the economy will grow. Ease of doing business will increase and we will see many more opportunities for Kenyans. Same should apply to power and other utilities necessary for the production of goods and services. It is now cheaper to products some goods and ship them from China to Thika Road than to do the same in Athi River. And this can be attributed to the high cost of power. No country can claim to have developed without access to cheap power, labour, transport network and a reliable and cheap means of communication. This has nothing to do with constitution, it is purely economic. Even in China where small matters of constitutions do not matter, they know this. They keep the cost of living low. Someone earning less than USD 500 in China will have a better quality of life than someone earning KES 100,000 in Kenya.
*2011/1/18 Joram Mwinamo <joram.mwinamo@gmail.com> *
*This is more an economic discussion than it is a digital one* * * *What he means is that the price war will deny the govt of revenues through Tax which is needed heavily to finance the new constitutions implementation*
There's another school of thought: Much of savings made from a reduction in calling rates will be used on other commodities, which also attract some form of tax. Well...unless tax from airtime is way higher compared to these 'other commodities'; or ....ahem... the savings are used on tax-free commodities.
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 11:42 AM, [Brainiac] <arebacollins@gmail.com> wrote:
I seriously hope that this http://bit.ly/famTA5 is just some fanatical reporting at Nation Media (would not be shocked) but if so, if these words came out of your mouth bwana PS,
THAT THE PRICE WARS IN THE MOBILE INDUSTRY MIGHT DERAIL THE NEW CONSTITUTION.
Are you for Real? Is that not cartel behaviour right there? So now what, are you going to "adjust" the lowest interconnection fees upwards to normalize all this? so that what? Safaricom can make more money?
Playing on the public with FUD now? what happened to market forces? who would run their company to a grind just to offer the cheapest? Revenue collection? how about we first spend PRUDENTLY what we collect? how about ALL of us pay taxes for starters? and why not just LOWER taxes and increase the tax bracket?
I have never been disappointed like i have on reading this.
On that article, the PS simply failed to reason like a technocrat. I am not sure what "hat" he was wearing when he said that. Quoting him: <Quote> "Citing the Kenya Revenue Authority’s recent failure to meet its 2010/11 first half collection target by Sh5 billion, the PS said the Airtel-triggered price war could not have come at a worse time. <Quote> 5billion is just 1billion more than the taxpayers money that (part of) the cabinet wants to spend on Mr. Francis Muthaura and Major. Gen. Hussein Ali on the Hague case. Talk of the govt paying for lawyers to defend its illegal actions. I saw the Safaricom CEO on TV last night trying to persuade the govt from allowing Airtel's action, saying it will make the mobile industry unsustainable, leading to the govt losing on taxes. He emphasized that by saying that Safaricom is the leading taxpayer. I see a conspiracy between Dr. Ndemo and Safaricom's CEO to stop mwananchi from enjoying lower call rates! How does "on-net" call tariffs within Airtel affect their bottom line? Are they scared of competition? Anyway, back to the revenue bit: The govt already overtaxes Kenyans and we cannot use the mobile industry income as an excuse to not let wananchi enjoy cheaper call rates. Think of this. The govt imposes punitive taxes on used car imports in order to discourage dumping. The same govt does not see any reason to reduce takes on new car imports! So you pay higher taxes for a used Toyota Wish, but even higher when you bring in a new one from the show room in Japan! Does that make sense? All employed persons contribute at least 30% of their salary to the govt in the form of PAYE. Kenyans are dying of hunger. Powerful govt delegations then tour the affected areas "to assess the famine situation" (Daily Nation of 20110114, Pg. 8). Quantify how much they spent on this trip versus how much, if any, they gave to the dying Kenyans in the form of food relief. Are there no govt officials in those areas to give reports? (DC, DOs, District Committees). This is sheer wastage of revenue, yet the govt wants more revenue by taxing Kenyans more?? In this particular case, Dr. Ndemo should give us another, and better reason, why call rates should not go lower, not the excuse about govt losing revenue, thus derailing the implementation of the new constitution. -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Damn!!
All employed persons contribute at least 30% of their salary to the govt in the form of PAYE.
Nope, some Two hundred and something Dont. On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:34 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>wrote:
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 11:42 AM, [Brainiac] <arebacollins@gmail.com>wrote:
I seriously hope that this http://bit.ly/famTA5 is just some fanatical reporting at Nation Media (would not be shocked) but if so, if these words came out of your mouth bwana PS,
THAT THE PRICE WARS IN THE MOBILE INDUSTRY MIGHT DERAIL THE NEW CONSTITUTION.
Are you for Real? Is that not cartel behaviour right there? So now what, are you going to "adjust" the lowest interconnection fees upwards to normalize all this? so that what? Safaricom can make more money?
Playing on the public with FUD now? what happened to market forces? who would run their company to a grind just to offer the cheapest? Revenue collection? how about we first spend PRUDENTLY what we collect? how about ALL of us pay taxes for starters? and why not just LOWER taxes and increase the tax bracket?
I have never been disappointed like i have on reading this.
On that article, the PS simply failed to reason like a technocrat. I am not sure what "hat" he was wearing when he said that. Quoting him: <Quote> "Citing the Kenya Revenue Authority’s recent failure to meet its 2010/11 first half collection target by Sh5 billion, the PS said the Airtel-triggered price war could not have come at a worse time. <Quote>
5billion is just 1billion more than the taxpayers money that (part of) the cabinet wants to spend on Mr. Francis Muthaura and Major. Gen. Hussein Ali on the Hague case. Talk of the govt paying for lawyers to defend its illegal actions.
I saw the Safaricom CEO on TV last night trying to persuade the govt from allowing Airtel's action, saying it will make the mobile industry unsustainable, leading to the govt losing on taxes. He emphasized that by saying that Safaricom is the leading taxpayer.
I see a conspiracy between Dr. Ndemo and Safaricom's CEO to stop mwananchi from enjoying lower call rates! How does "on-net" call tariffs within Airtel affect their bottom line? Are they scared of competition?
Anyway, back to the revenue bit: The govt already overtaxes Kenyans and we cannot use the mobile industry income as an excuse to not let wananchi enjoy cheaper call rates. Think of this. The govt imposes punitive taxes on used car imports in order to discourage dumping. The same govt does not see any reason to reduce takes on new car imports! So you pay higher taxes for a used Toyota Wish, but even higher when you bring in a new one from the show room in Japan! Does that make sense? All employed persons contribute at least 30% of their salary to the govt in the form of PAYE.
Kenyans are dying of hunger. Powerful govt delegations then tour the affected areas "to assess the famine situation" (Daily Nation of 20110114, Pg. 8). Quantify how much they spent on this trip versus how much, if any, they gave to the dying Kenyans in the form of food relief. Are there no govt officials in those areas to give reports? (DC, DOs, District Committees). This is sheer wastage of revenue, yet the govt wants more revenue by taxing Kenyans more??
In this particular case, Dr. Ndemo should give us another, and better reason, why call rates should not go lower, not the excuse about govt losing revenue, thus derailing the implementation of the new constitution.
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Damn!!
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- *“The twentieth century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: the growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy”* ~ Alex Carey ~
OK.... I don't know why Ndemo couldnt see that...Landlines will be a thing of the past !! On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:40 PM, [Brainiac] <arebacollins@gmail.com> wrote:
All employed persons contribute at least 30% of their salary to the govt in
the form of PAYE.
Nope, some Two hundred and something Dont.
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:34 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>wrote:
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 11:42 AM, [Brainiac] <arebacollins@gmail.com>wrote:
I seriously hope that this http://bit.ly/famTA5 is just some fanatical reporting at Nation Media (would not be shocked) but if so, if these words came out of your mouth bwana PS,
THAT THE PRICE WARS IN THE MOBILE INDUSTRY MIGHT DERAIL THE NEW CONSTITUTION.
Are you for Real? Is that not cartel behaviour right there? So now what, are you going to "adjust" the lowest interconnection fees upwards to normalize all this? so that what? Safaricom can make more money?
Playing on the public with FUD now? what happened to market forces? who would run their company to a grind just to offer the cheapest? Revenue collection? how about we first spend PRUDENTLY what we collect? how about ALL of us pay taxes for starters? and why not just LOWER taxes and increase the tax bracket?
I have never been disappointed like i have on reading this.
On that article, the PS simply failed to reason like a technocrat. I am not sure what "hat" he was wearing when he said that. Quoting him: <Quote> "Citing the Kenya Revenue Authority’s recent failure to meet its 2010/11 first half collection target by Sh5 billion, the PS said the Airtel-triggered price war could not have come at a worse time. <Quote>
5billion is just 1billion more than the taxpayers money that (part of) the cabinet wants to spend on Mr. Francis Muthaura and Major. Gen. Hussein Ali on the Hague case. Talk of the govt paying for lawyers to defend its illegal actions.
I saw the Safaricom CEO on TV last night trying to persuade the govt from allowing Airtel's action, saying it will make the mobile industry unsustainable, leading to the govt losing on taxes. He emphasized that by saying that Safaricom is the leading taxpayer.
I see a conspiracy between Dr. Ndemo and Safaricom's CEO to stop mwananchi from enjoying lower call rates! How does "on-net" call tariffs within Airtel affect their bottom line? Are they scared of competition?
Anyway, back to the revenue bit: The govt already overtaxes Kenyans and we cannot use the mobile industry income as an excuse to not let wananchi enjoy cheaper call rates. Think of this. The govt imposes punitive taxes on used car imports in order to discourage dumping. The same govt does not see any reason to reduce takes on new car imports! So you pay higher taxes for a used Toyota Wish, but even higher when you bring in a new one from the show room in Japan! Does that make sense? All employed persons contribute at least 30% of their salary to the govt in the form of PAYE.
Kenyans are dying of hunger. Powerful govt delegations then tour the affected areas "to assess the famine situation" (Daily Nation of 20110114, Pg. 8). Quantify how much they spent on this trip versus how much, if any, they gave to the dying Kenyans in the form of food relief. Are there no govt officials in those areas to give reports? (DC, DOs, District Committees). This is sheer wastage of revenue, yet the govt wants more revenue by taxing Kenyans more??
In this particular case, Dr. Ndemo should give us another, and better reason, why call rates should not go lower, not the excuse about govt losing revenue, thus derailing the implementation of the new constitution.
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Damn!!
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- *“The twentieth century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: the growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy”*
~ Alex Carey ~
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
Honestly, and with all due respect to the work the PS has been doing in the past, it seems public interest stops at your ISP or telco company. Anyone and everyone upwards of that is all about corporate interests. (for those in KICTANET note the resounding silence on this matter). PS is acting on behalf of Safaricom, which is pulling the "we pay lots of tax card" which is totally messed up. And people are wondering why Tunisia, Algeria , Libya and Egyptian leadership is currently trembling. On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:41 PM, Alvin Jason Ochieng <ajochola@gmail.com>wrote:
OK.... I don't know why Ndemo couldnt see that...Landlines will be a thing of the past !!
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:40 PM, [Brainiac] <arebacollins@gmail.com>wrote:
All employed persons contribute at least 30% of their salary to the govt
in the form of PAYE.
Nope, some Two hundred and something Dont.
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:34 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com
wrote:
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 11:42 AM, [Brainiac] <arebacollins@gmail.com>wrote:
I seriously hope that this http://bit.ly/famTA5 is just some fanatical reporting at Nation Media (would not be shocked) but if so, if these words came out of your mouth bwana PS,
THAT THE PRICE WARS IN THE MOBILE INDUSTRY MIGHT DERAIL THE NEW CONSTITUTION.
Are you for Real? Is that not cartel behaviour right there? So now what, are you going to "adjust" the lowest interconnection fees upwards to normalize all this? so that what? Safaricom can make more money?
Playing on the public with FUD now? what happened to market forces? who would run their company to a grind just to offer the cheapest? Revenue collection? how about we first spend PRUDENTLY what we collect? how about ALL of us pay taxes for starters? and why not just LOWER taxes and increase the tax bracket?
I have never been disappointed like i have on reading this.
On that article, the PS simply failed to reason like a technocrat. I am not sure what "hat" he was wearing when he said that. Quoting him: <Quote> "Citing the Kenya Revenue Authority’s recent failure to meet its 2010/11 first half collection target by Sh5 billion, the PS said the Airtel-triggered price war could not have come at a worse time. <Quote>
5billion is just 1billion more than the taxpayers money that (part of) the cabinet wants to spend on Mr. Francis Muthaura and Major. Gen. Hussein Ali on the Hague case. Talk of the govt paying for lawyers to defend its illegal actions.
I saw the Safaricom CEO on TV last night trying to persuade the govt from allowing Airtel's action, saying it will make the mobile industry unsustainable, leading to the govt losing on taxes. He emphasized that by saying that Safaricom is the leading taxpayer.
I see a conspiracy between Dr. Ndemo and Safaricom's CEO to stop mwananchi from enjoying lower call rates! How does "on-net" call tariffs within Airtel affect their bottom line? Are they scared of competition?
Anyway, back to the revenue bit: The govt already overtaxes Kenyans and we cannot use the mobile industry income as an excuse to not let wananchi enjoy cheaper call rates. Think of this. The govt imposes punitive taxes on used car imports in order to discourage dumping. The same govt does not see any reason to reduce takes on new car imports! So you pay higher taxes for a used Toyota Wish, but even higher when you bring in a new one from the show room in Japan! Does that make sense? All employed persons contribute at least 30% of their salary to the govt in the form of PAYE.
Kenyans are dying of hunger. Powerful govt delegations then tour the affected areas "to assess the famine situation" (Daily Nation of 20110114, Pg. 8). Quantify how much they spent on this trip versus how much, if any, they gave to the dying Kenyans in the form of food relief. Are there no govt officials in those areas to give reports? (DC, DOs, District Committees). This is sheer wastage of revenue, yet the govt wants more revenue by taxing Kenyans more??
In this particular case, Dr. Ndemo should give us another, and better reason, why call rates should not go lower, not the excuse about govt losing revenue, thus derailing the implementation of the new constitution.
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Damn!!
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- *“The twentieth century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: the growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy”*
~ Alex Carey ~
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- *“The twentieth century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: the growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy”* ~ Alex Carey ~
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:40 PM, [Brainiac] <arebacollins@gmail.com> wrote:
All employed persons contribute at least 30% of their salary to the govt
in the form of PAYE.
Nope, some Two hundred and something Dont.
Those two hundred and something are known! Wasn't the constitution changed to make them pay also?? -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Damn!!
maybe you should ask those in the list (or in the other one) if they have began paying... Im actually tempted to think maybe we should abolish all taxes deducted from salaries, and spread it across as VAT. On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com>wrote:
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:40 PM, [Brainiac] <arebacollins@gmail.com>wrote:
All employed persons contribute at least 30% of their salary to the govt
in the form of PAYE.
Nope, some Two hundred and something Dont.
Those two hundred and something are known! Wasn't the constitution changed to make them pay also??
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Damn!!
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- *“The twentieth century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: the growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy”* ~ Alex Carey ~
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 1:14 PM, [Brainiac] <arebacollins@gmail.com> wrote:
maybe you should ask those in the list (or in the other one) if they have began paying... Im actually tempted to think maybe we should abolish all taxes deducted from salaries, and spread it across as VAT.
After paying the 30%, you still pay VAT, Excise, Koinange... etc :-) -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Damn!!
I also dont see the problem here...since they(safcom) pride themselves in 'innovation' let them invent something to raise revunue...e.g tag a say 2bob premimum on a tarrif that automatically pays your insuarance,gives discounts at outlets, etc...they have ran out of ideas, not revenue..
Is it possible for people to make more calls at lower prices and so much so that it cushions against the price reduction? Secondly how is it that the GOK would want to regulate fuel prices to ensure that they are low to tackle inflation yet want to increase per minute call charges increasing the rate of inflation? Aren't they both in the inflation computation index? Does our beloved PS seem to favour a higher price regime and what possible benefit would that be to the Kenyan economy? Kiania D. On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 2:52 PM, moses njuguna <moses.w.n@gmail.com> wrote:
I also dont see the problem here...since they(safcom) pride themselves in 'innovation' let them invent something to raise revunue...e.g tag a say 2bob premimum on a tarrif that automatically pays your insuarance,gives discounts at outlets, etc...they have ran out of ideas, not revenue.. _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- [Asentric Consulting Ltd] "You don't build a business, you build people who build your business for you" - Brad Sugars
And just to conclude my remarks on this, Assuming it costs more than they are charging in their attempt to pursue increased market share, that would mean that Airtel is actually INVESTING, paying for the calls, signing checks for cross network traffic it does not charge ...e.t.c e.t.c So from an "encouraging foreign investors" perspective, why are we warming up to an investor holding far less capital? Last but not least, the 5%. On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 7:40 PM, David Kiania | Asentric Consulting Ltd < kianiadee@gmail.com> wrote:
Is it possible for people to make more calls at lower prices and so much so that it cushions against the price reduction? Secondly how is it that the GOK would want to regulate fuel prices to ensure that they are low to tackle inflation yet want to increase per minute call charges increasing the rate of inflation?
Aren't they both in the inflation computation index? Does our beloved PS seem to favour a higher price regime and what possible benefit would that be to the Kenyan economy?
Kiania D.
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 2:52 PM, moses njuguna <moses.w.n@gmail.com> wrote:
I also dont see the problem here...since they(safcom) pride themselves in 'innovation' let them invent something to raise revunue...e.g tag a say 2bob premimum on a tarrif that automatically pays your insuarance,gives discounts at outlets, etc...they have ran out of ideas, not revenue.. _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
--
[Asentric Consulting Ltd]
"You don't build a business, you build people who build your business for you" - Brad Sugars _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- *“The twentieth century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: the growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy”* ~ Alex Carey ~
I like what Phillip has said and that ties to what I think: if we have more spending power (result of lower communication cost) we have more to spend on other things and hence still raise taxes from other goods and/or services. Its like safaricom wants to be the only company that generates taxes for GOK. The 1000/- isave on airtime will be used to buy books for my daughter - books wihich will still generate tax for GOK. So any way you put it GOK will still collect taxes from my spending... On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 7:40 PM, David Kiania | Asentric Consulting Ltd < kianiadee@gmail.com> wrote:
Is it possible for people to make more calls at lower prices and so much so that it cushions against the price reduction? Secondly how is it that the GOK would want to regulate fuel prices to ensure that they are low to tackle inflation yet want to increase per minute call charges increasing the rate of inflation?
Aren't they both in the inflation computation index? Does our beloved PS seem to favour a higher price regime and what possible benefit would that be to the Kenyan economy?
Kiania D.
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 2:52 PM, moses njuguna <moses.w.n@gmail.com> wrote:
I also dont see the problem here...since they(safcom) pride themselves in 'innovation' let them invent something to raise revunue...e.g tag a say 2bob premimum on a tarrif that automatically pays your insuarance,gives discounts at outlets, etc...they have ran out of ideas, not revenue.. _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
--
[Asentric Consulting Ltd]
"You don't build a business, you build people who build your business for you" - Brad Sugars _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
Methinks GoK is drunk on the Safaricom Kool-Aid...
By virtue of Safcom being a kenyan company by shareholding,someone please write from a shareholder perspective....Much has been said from a consumer perspective. The government that passed "dominance regulations" should also chip in to regulate this(nini?). Do we pressurize the government to regulate the prices when we are the primary producers(Read farmers)?U'll hear the unscrupulous traders buying...Why not let market forces dictate prices? Just trying to bring the other side of the argument.
More updates on the interview between larry and the new CEO on among others, the whole story being discussed here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ugRa7SILDo&playnext=1&playnext_from=QL On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 10:43 PM, Mike M. <mmycool@gmail.com> wrote:
By virtue of Safcom being a kenyan company by shareholding,someone please write from a shareholder perspective....Much has been said from a consumer perspective. The government that passed "dominance regulations" should also chip in to regulate this(nini?). Do we pressurize the government to regulate the prices when we are the primary producers(Read farmers)?U'll hear the unscrupulous traders buying...Why not let market forces dictate prices?
Just trying to bring the other side of the argument.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- *“The twentieth century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: the growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy”* ~ Alex Carey ~
In economic terms, whether it seems fair or not, what the government is asking is ..."is Ksh 1 bob sustainable?" Lets take an example from another industry. Lets assume milk is 30ksh. Someone in the industry tells you production costs are Ksh 20 so there is a margin of Ksh 10 bob profit. The industry is thriving, all players 5 are paying taxes of Ksh 5 bob per packet. Then a competitor who is making a lot of money from milk in Dubai and Saudi comes and starts selling higher quality milk at 19 bob because he wants to increase market share and doesnt care whether he makes profits or not for 10 years becayse that is his "strategy". Do i need to explain further the ripple effect on the economy, taxes, jobs and other locally and foreign owned companies, especially the one owned 25% by the govt? On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 1:02 AM, [Brainiac] <arebacollins@gmail.com> wrote:
More updates on the interview between larry and the new CEO on among others, the whole story being discussed here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ugRa7SILDo&playnext=1&playnext_from=QL
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 10:43 PM, Mike M. <mmycool@gmail.com> wrote:
By virtue of Safcom being a kenyan company by shareholding,someone please write from a shareholder perspective....Much has been said from a consumer perspective. The government that passed "dominance regulations" should also chip in to regulate this(nini?). Do we pressurize the government to regulate the prices when we are the primary producers(Read farmers)?U'll hear the unscrupulous traders buying...Why not let market forces dictate prices?
Just trying to bring the other side of the argument.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- *“The twentieth century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: the growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy”*
~ Alex Carey ~
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.
On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 9:15 AM, Joram Mwinamo <joram.mwinamo@gmail.com>wrote:
In economic terms, whether it seems fair or not, what the government is asking is ..."is Ksh 1 bob sustainable?" Lets take an example from another industry. Lets assume milk is 30ksh. Someone in the industry tells you production costs are Ksh 20 so there is a margin of Ksh 10 bob profit. The industry is thriving, all players 5 are paying taxes of Ksh 5 bob per packet. Then a competitor who is making a lot of money from milk in Dubai and Saudi comes and starts selling higher quality milk at 19 bob because he wants to increase market share and doesnt care whether he makes profits or not for 10 years becayse that is his "strategy". Do i need to explain further the ripple effect on the economy, taxes, jobs and other locally and foreign owned companies, especially the one owned 25% by the govt?
It doesnt work that way -- commodity prices nowadays are largely determined internationally rather than locally (much like oil). its only governments who "dont care if they make profits" -- any private business has "profits" as the number 1 goal. Mobile phone credit is not a internationally traded commodity. margins / profits are determined by your business model not by "someone in the industry" -- if a company has a 10 year to-profit vision and business model -- its their risk (and their share holder's risk)...If they go bankrupt in the process well and good -- but in reality they are probably looking at a turnaround period of a year. Its only socialist government who have 10 year plans -- most telecom businesses given the volatile nature of the business look at much shorter turnaround periods / business cycles ( in terms of quarters = 3 months ) ... no shareholder is going to put up with 2 or 3 year losses.
And if they are taking money from overseas to pay for our calls and pay tax, is this not the foreign cash injections we keep talking about? Why has the govt never been concerned by all those foreigners who overpay for rent and drive it high above the affordability of normal Kenyans? We cant fix some things and overlook others
Actually in this <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFvGYVtmU-Q&NR=1> video aired sometime last year, the chairman of bharti airtel in india explains very clearly what their strategy is all about.. He raises very impostant issues which from the previous interview shown (Bob vs Larry madowo) goes to show that there is a paradigm shift in thinking between the two companies. @safaricom justifies their arguement by stating that they have made huge investments in infrastructure and continue to do so. @bharti says it makes no sense in africa (or anywhere else) for companies not to share infrastructure. having three masts in a village means triple the cost (eventually transferred to the client in the long run. Credible sources tell me safaricom has been reluctant to participate in sharing of infrastructure or not, and while this may or may not be hot air, it goes to show the stereotypes within the "still thinking as a monopoly" company... I still believe safaricom is enjoyina a lot of this "government" support because of a certain 5% shareholding..... On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 9:44 AM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
And if they are taking money from overseas to pay for our calls and pay tax, is this not the foreign cash injections we keep talking about? Why has the govt never been concerned by all those foreigners who overpay for rent and drive it high above the affordability of normal Kenyans? We cant fix some things and overlook others _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- *“The twentieth century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: the growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy”* ~ Alex Carey ~
participants (17)
-
[Brainiac] -
Alvin Jason Ochieng -
ashok+skunkworks＠parliaments.info -
Barrack Otieno -
David Kiania | Asentric Consulting Ltd -
Dennis Kioko -
Haggai Nyang -
Joram Mwinamo -
Mike M. -
moses njuguna -
Nicholas Mutinda -
Odhiambo Washington -
Okechukwu -
Philip Musyoki -
Solomon Mburu Kamau -
Tony Likhanga -
Victor Ngeny