Dear skunks / ettes / lings, Can one lay a claim on a database structure? Does this constitute of intellectual property? Scenario: Developer X is handing over a project he did for Client Y. Developer refused to give up the scripts, saying all coding is their intellectual property. So All we got was the database dump. I have used some scripts , reverse engineered the process and introduced some simple CRUD files and can now "administer" the content. Developer X is not bitching, that we used their database structure. Im miffed. Is this even possible? how then would I have gotten the data? Does it change the intellectual property "ginene" if I change the names of the tables? ~ #shocked -- Regards, Collins Areba, P.O Box 44441, 00100 Nairobi, Kenya. Tel: +254 707 750 788 / 720 516 758 Twitter: @arebacollins. Skype: arebacollins
Not fully answering your question, but: 1. What were the contract terms when the developer was being engaged? 2. When the developer was working, was he/she stationed in the client's premises, using the client's infrastructure? Finally, I think that developer is not very wise, scripts can always be thrown away or replaced, but the data is where the money is at. Unless there was very complex business rules done in the scripts, but even then, its always a matter of time to recreate them. We really should have a credibility reference Bureau for IT professionals On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 7:40 PM, Collins Areba via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Dear skunks / ettes / lings,
Can one lay a claim on a database structure? Does this constitute of intellectual property?
Scenario: Developer X is handing over a project he did for Client Y. Developer refused to give up the scripts, saying all coding is their intellectual property. So All we got was the database dump.
I have used some scripts , reverse engineered the process and introduced some simple CRUD files and can now "administer" the content. Developer X is not bitching, that we used their database structure. Im miffed. Is this even possible? how then would I have gotten the data? Does it change the intellectual property "ginene" if I change the names of the tables?
~ #shocked
-- Regards,
Collins Areba, P.O Box 44441, 00100 Nairobi, Kenya. Tel: +254 707 750 788 / 720 516 758 Twitter: @arebacollins. Skype: arebacollins
_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
Thanks @peter. Developer was based in own premises, Client used the system to build large database. In the contract, "data" belongs to client. "system" belongs to developer. How do you distinguish "data" from the database structure? On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 9:00 AM, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com> wrote:
Not fully answering your question, but:
1. What were the contract terms when the developer was being engaged? 2. When the developer was working, was he/she stationed in the client's premises, using the client's infrastructure?
Finally, I think that developer is not very wise, scripts can always be thrown away or replaced, but the data is where the money is at. Unless there was very complex business rules done in the scripts, but even then, its always a matter of time to recreate them.
We really should have a credibility reference Bureau for IT professionals
On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 7:40 PM, Collins Areba via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Dear skunks / ettes / lings,
Can one lay a claim on a database structure? Does this constitute of intellectual property?
Scenario: Developer X is handing over a project he did for Client Y. Developer refused to give up the scripts, saying all coding is their intellectual property. So All we got was the database dump.
I have used some scripts , reverse engineered the process and introduced some simple CRUD files and can now "administer" the content. Developer X is not bitching, that we used their database structure. Im miffed. Is this even possible? how then would I have gotten the data? Does it change the intellectual property "ginene" if I change the names of the tables?
~ #shocked
-- Regards,
Collins Areba, P.O Box 44441, 00100 Nairobi, Kenya. Tel: +254 707 750 788 / 720 516 758 Twitter: @arebacollins. Skype: arebacollins
_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards, Collins Areba, P.O Box 44441, 00100 Nairobi, Kenya. Tel: +254 707 750 788 / 720 516 758 Twitter: @arebacollins. Skype: arebacollins
I think Developer X was just plain lazy in not giving out a Flat file data dump as opposed to the reverse engineerable db structure... and like you said, you reverse engineered that ish... From most data driven apps I have written, most of the "logic" actually gets implemented from the entity relationships and you just get left with CRUD forms, which can be written for any system... That being said, even if you were to be given a flat dump of this data, you may not be able to unlearn what you now know of how the various entities of the system interact which is what he is claiming rights to... whether he has a right to them, I don't know... Pole kwake na pole kwenu, this is some messed up ish... they way out would be to just redesign the stuff as far as it is redesignable, renaming alone may not make Developer X happy (I don't think he will ever be happy, but blunder ni yake) you can only ever name a Countries table "Countries" prefixing or suffixing or calling it in Swa or "gineneX" won't cut it... Regards Mula G On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 10:22 AM, Collins Areba via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Thanks @peter.
Developer was based in own premises, Client used the system to build large database. In the contract, "data" belongs to client. "system" belongs to developer. How do you distinguish "data" from the database structure?
On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 9:00 AM, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com> wrote:
Not fully answering your question, but:
1. What were the contract terms when the developer was being engaged? 2. When the developer was working, was he/she stationed in the client's premises, using the client's infrastructure?
Finally, I think that developer is not very wise, scripts can always be thrown away or replaced, but the data is where the money is at. Unless there was very complex business rules done in the scripts, but even then, its always a matter of time to recreate them.
We really should have a credibility reference Bureau for IT professionals
On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 7:40 PM, Collins Areba via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Dear skunks / ettes / lings,
Can one lay a claim on a database structure? Does this constitute of intellectual property?
Scenario: Developer X is handing over a project he did for Client Y. Developer refused to give up the scripts, saying all coding is their intellectual property. So All we got was the database dump.
I have used some scripts , reverse engineered the process and introduced some simple CRUD files and can now "administer" the content. Developer X is not bitching, that we used their database structure. Im miffed. Is this even possible? how then would I have gotten the data? Does it change the intellectual property "ginene" if I change the names of the tables?
~ #shocked
-- Regards,
Collins Areba, P.O Box 44441, 00100 Nairobi, Kenya. Tel: +254 707 750 788 / 720 516 758 Twitter: @arebacollins. Skype: arebacollins
_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards,
Collins Areba, P.O Box 44441, 00100 Nairobi, Kenya. Tel: +254 707 750 788 / 720 516 758 Twitter: @arebacollins. Skype: arebacollins
_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered, those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid. Thus the wise win before the fight, while the ignorant fight to win.
Off to pic abit, is this Collins Areba the prominent farmer behind Farming Kenya? On Friday, May 1, 2015, Mula G Njira via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
I think Developer X was just plain lazy in not giving out a Flat file data dump as opposed to the reverse engineerable db structure... and like you said, you reverse engineered that ish... From most data driven apps I have written, most of the "logic" actually gets implemented from the entity relationships and you just get left with CRUD forms, which can be written for any system...
That being said, even if you were to be given a flat dump of this data, you may not be able to unlearn what you now know of how the various entities of the system interact which is what he is claiming rights to... whether he has a right to them, I don't know...
Pole kwake na pole kwenu, this is some messed up ish... they way out would be to just redesign the stuff as far as it is redesignable, renaming alone may not make Developer X happy (I don't think he will ever be happy, but blunder ni yake) you can only ever name a Countries table "Countries" prefixing or suffixing or calling it in Swa or "gineneX" won't cut it...
Regards
Mula G
On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 10:22 AM, Collins Areba via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke');>> wrote:
Thanks @peter.
Developer was based in own premises, Client used the system to build large database. In the contract, "data" belongs to client. "system" belongs to developer. How do you distinguish "data" from the database structure?
On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 9:00 AM, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','pkarunyu@gmail.com');>> wrote:
Not fully answering your question, but:
1. What were the contract terms when the developer was being engaged? 2. When the developer was working, was he/she stationed in the client's premises, using the client's infrastructure?
Finally, I think that developer is not very wise, scripts can always be thrown away or replaced, but the data is where the money is at. Unless there was very complex business rules done in the scripts, but even then, its always a matter of time to recreate them.
We really should have a credibility reference Bureau for IT professionals
On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 7:40 PM, Collins Areba via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke');>> wrote:
Dear skunks / ettes / lings,
Can one lay a claim on a database structure? Does this constitute of intellectual property?
Scenario: Developer X is handing over a project he did for Client Y. Developer refused to give up the scripts, saying all coding is their intellectual property. So All we got was the database dump.
I have used some scripts , reverse engineered the process and introduced some simple CRUD files and can now "administer" the content. Developer X is not bitching, that we used their database structure. Im miffed. Is this even possible? how then would I have gotten the data? Does it change the intellectual property "ginene" if I change the names of the tables?
~ #shocked
-- Regards,
Collins Areba, P.O Box 44441, 00100 Nairobi, Kenya. Tel: +254 707 750 788 / 720 516 758 Twitter: @arebacollins. Skype: arebacollins
_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke');> ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards,
Collins Areba, P.O Box 44441, 00100 Nairobi, Kenya. Tel: +254 707 750 788 / 720 516 758 Twitter: @arebacollins. Skype: arebacollins
_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke');> ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered, those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid. Thus the wise win before the fight, while the ignorant fight to win.
LOL: nope, must be a different one. there are soo many of us. :-P On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 8:31 PM, Brian Monyi <monyibrian@gmail.com> wrote:
Off to pic abit, is this Collins Areba the prominent farmer behind Farming Kenya?
On Friday, May 1, 2015, Mula G Njira via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
I think Developer X was just plain lazy in not giving out a Flat file data dump as opposed to the reverse engineerable db structure... and like you said, you reverse engineered that ish... From most data driven apps I have written, most of the "logic" actually gets implemented from the entity relationships and you just get left with CRUD forms, which can be written for any system...
That being said, even if you were to be given a flat dump of this data, you may not be able to unlearn what you now know of how the various entities of the system interact which is what he is claiming rights to... whether he has a right to them, I don't know...
Pole kwake na pole kwenu, this is some messed up ish... they way out would be to just redesign the stuff as far as it is redesignable, renaming alone may not make Developer X happy (I don't think he will ever be happy, but blunder ni yake) you can only ever name a Countries table "Countries" prefixing or suffixing or calling it in Swa or "gineneX" won't cut it...
Regards
Mula G
On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 10:22 AM, Collins Areba via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Thanks @peter.
Developer was based in own premises, Client used the system to build large database. In the contract, "data" belongs to client. "system" belongs to developer. How do you distinguish "data" from the database structure?
On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 9:00 AM, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com> wrote:
Not fully answering your question, but:
1. What were the contract terms when the developer was being engaged? 2. When the developer was working, was he/she stationed in the client's premises, using the client's infrastructure?
Finally, I think that developer is not very wise, scripts can always be thrown away or replaced, but the data is where the money is at. Unless there was very complex business rules done in the scripts, but even then, its always a matter of time to recreate them.
We really should have a credibility reference Bureau for IT professionals
On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 7:40 PM, Collins Areba via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Dear skunks / ettes / lings,
Can one lay a claim on a database structure? Does this constitute of intellectual property?
Scenario: Developer X is handing over a project he did for Client Y. Developer refused to give up the scripts, saying all coding is their intellectual property. So All we got was the database dump.
I have used some scripts , reverse engineered the process and introduced some simple CRUD files and can now "administer" the content. Developer X is not bitching, that we used their database structure. Im miffed. Is this even possible? how then would I have gotten the data? Does it change the intellectual property "ginene" if I change the names of the tables?
~ #shocked
-- Regards,
Collins Areba, P.O Box 44441, 00100 Nairobi, Kenya. Tel: +254 707 750 788 / 720 516 758 Twitter: @arebacollins. Skype: arebacollins
_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards,
Collins Areba, P.O Box 44441, 00100 Nairobi, Kenya. Tel: +254 707 750 788 / 720 516 758 Twitter: @arebacollins. Skype: arebacollins
_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered, those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid. Thus the wise win before the fight, while the ignorant fight to win.
-- Regards, Collins Areba, P.O Box 44441, 00100 Nairobi, Kenya. Tel: +254 707 750 788 / 720 516 758 Twitter: @arebacollins. Skype: arebacollins
participants (4)
-
Brian Monyi -
Collins Areba -
Mula G Njira -
Peter Karunyu