@Aki Method 1 Create folders for each sub-site and serve sub-site from there e.g http://tovuti.co.ke/*name_of_subsite* Method 2 Serve sub-sites based on params passed to main site e.g http://tovuti.co.ke?site=*name_of_subsite* content can be loaded from FS or DB Method 3 (or Method 1B) Instead of folders, and depending on your host, you can create subdomains using Server Siide Script/Bin and serve content from there e.g http://*name_of_subsite*.tovuti.co.ke As for the content you can give the users an option to create, redirect, proxy or clone from existing (if rich in space) _______________________________________________ *Without requirements or design, programming is the art of adding bugs to an empty text file.* _______________________________________________ * * 2012/1/17 kris njoroge <krsnjo@gmail.com>

Maybe you would need a structure that is better defined. All content for coast falls under coast then your users would just be posting under the respective headings. How to stop one user from deleting other users posts or pages. You would need a user/access management module that would dish out the appropriate permissions. What you say is possible. Actually what would the user need to input - text and pictures, graphs etc. Unless mistaken you might be reinventing the wheel - drupal does exactly what you are thinking out of the box ok might need some tweeks but would do the job. Me thots On 16 Jan 2012 21:24, "aki" <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:

...

I've been looking at this scenario, as part of it falls into the KPLC monitoring project: Suppose I created a website and I'd like the end user to be able to create their own blank web which I can add further components, is this possible?

I don''t want to use a CMS to do this because using a CMS takes me away from my framework and would really annoy me. I already knew basics of some platforms but ignored them for frameworks sake. It would be really dumb and stupid to find myself limited once again, as I did on the desktop and game programming last year.

Assume this : I have a main page which is the default site. Any end user would like to add their own web page to my site. So the very basic website structure would be this :

Main Page > main content Add New Page > for end users to add their own content. Once the end user creates the page, it will be automatically linked to the mainpage.

so the main page link info would be this , e.g : www.nokplcpowerexample.whatever and the end user created page would be this , e.g www.nokplcpowerexamaple.whatever/centralarea and another end user created page would be this, e.g www.npkplcpowerexample.whatever/coastalarea

Any suggestions?

Rgds. :-)

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------

Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------

Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke

Thanks guys for the replies. @Rad has gotten my question correctly i.e the site would be like how a wiki works. How can I create a Wiki Type of a site using asp.net and c#? Or even those who are pure php, html, django, rails etc are you able to create Wiki type of a site without the use of any CMS? It'd be very helpful to know this at this stage, because I thought the inputs data would be complicated enough for the KPLC monitoring site that am now re-visiting tcp programming once again but it's now turning out that I may have to either go a CMS way or first create my own CMS, then move onto the KPLC monitoring project. This would be ridiculous and a shortcut that will make me abandon the entire project. Am not an advanced programmer nor do I want to use any CMS in principle. What then are my options? Any advice is most welcome. Cheers. :-) Rgds. On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 7:02 AM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:

This is precisely how a wiki works .

Happy new year @Aki! If I understood you correctly, you want something that would allow users to automatically publish content to your site, right? Well, if this is your case I can give you tips but from the framework I use when working on Web applications. This is django, written in Python. What normally happens is that you structure your page first in what are known as models [ https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.3/topics/db/models/ ]. Determine the kind of content or fields that it will support, like heading(s), body, publisher, submission date / time, etc. After that you write methods (functions) to create the URL of the content in your site in case it needs to be referenced by a client (browser / spiders and search agents). This actually becomes part of your definition of data in the models. Django supports what are known as generic views. These are of automated ways of retrieving the data stored in your system (dbs). What you can do is just include the necessary functions in a URL configuration file and then build templates that will utilise the generic views. I have skipped the details but you can see examples on this page [ https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.3/ref/class-based-views/ ] but in short every piece of content can be retrieved and listed for you in a page regardless of whether you explicitly specified its address for access. Lastly I think it might be necessary to employ the use of an javasctipt WYSIWYG editor like TinyMCE [ http://www.tinymce.com/ ] to allow the end users to edit content without having to write plain html. That also means that you will have to have a means of user authentication to control who does what as they work on the pages. All this is supported by django and I believe other Web-based frameworks out there. Hope that helps. Martin.

@Aki, glad you asked :D On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 10:08 AM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:

Hey @Martin, :-)

Thnks and a question for you. Does Python support programming inputs like TCP or sockets?

Python's low level Networking interface [ http://docs.python.org/library/socket.html ] Does it support things like writing code to e.g. strip the metadata from a

jpeg file?

Read and write JPEG files in Python [ http://docs.python.org/library/jpeg.html ] Python Imaging library [ http://pypi.python.org/pypi/PIL ] Does it support programming to collect data from USB or Network Devices?

Python USB access module [ http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pyusb/1.0.0a2 ]

Rgds.

You can do much more in the language like Games programming [ http://pygame.org ] and Scientifica number crunching [ http://numpy.scipy.org/ ]. At the risk of sounding like a Marketer, Python is probably the best general purpose programming language available, so long as performance is not extremely critical. It is has a very clean design, simple syntax and easy to learn. Furthermore, it actually pre-dates JAVA, Ruby and even the Linux kernel. Martin.

On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 9:44 AM, Martin Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com>wrote:

...

Happy new year @Aki!

If I understood you correctly, you want something that would allow users to automatically publish content to your site, right?

Well, if this is your case I can give you tips but from the framework I use when working on Web applications. This is django, written in Python. What normally happens is that you structure your page first in what are known as models [ https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.3/topics/db/models/]. Determine the kind of content or fields that it will support, like heading(s), body, publisher, submission date / time, etc. After that you write methods (functions) to create the URL of the content in your site in case it needs to be referenced by a client (browser / spiders and search agents). This actually becomes part of your definition of data in the models.

Django supports what are known as generic views. These are of automated ways of retrieving the data stored in your system (dbs). What you can do is just include the necessary functions in a URL configuration file and then build templates that will utilise the generic views. I have skipped the details but you can see examples on this page [ https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.3/ref/class-based-views/ ] but in short every piece of content can be retrieved and listed for you in a page regardless of whether you explicitly specified its address for access.

Lastly I think it might be necessary to employ the use of an javasctipt WYSIWYG editor like TinyMCE [ http://www.tinymce.com/ ] to allow the end users to edit content without having to write plain html. That also means that you will have to have a means of user authentication to control who does what as they work on the pages. All this is supported by django and I believe other Web-based frameworks out there.

Hope that helps.

Martin.

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------

Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke

Hi @Chris, my query has not yet been answered i.e creating a Wiki Site using, and in my case asp dot net and c#. Have I finally stumbled upon the reality that each programming language has its various shortfalls? It seems to me now that I may have to give up on my current programming language and move on to something else like e.g. python i.e start all over again. Am not sure at the moment what the next step is going to be because I cannot keep on wasting years on learning programming languages only to find their pitfalls in the end or when needed. Any advice you can offer based on that I never want to use any CMS systems out there. ? Best. :-) On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 10:20 AM, Chris Mwirigi <mwirigic@gmail.com> wrote:

this digression means your previous query has been answered? and yeah python can do pretty much anything you want it to do. It is a programming language.

@Rad, thnks for the suggestion but its very hard to digest. Am just adding a thought here. The problem with some of us from the old school is that I find it very difficult to use someone elses's stuff to create my own. Maybe I need to change on my thinking but had I followed this system, there was never a need for me to learn about programming. A short example here so as not to occupy too much writing space. When I was studying Automotive Engineering in the late 80s' I came across a rotary engine vehicle which had been abandoned by the owner because the engine could not start. The owner had sent it to various places but no one had fixed it so he gave up on it, as getting another engine from Japan was like half the price of the car. Anyway he let me have a look at it, I went through the entire vehicle for a few days. Short of opening the engine and I'd never opened a rotary engine before, I ran compression tests and ignition timing tests too. All seemed fine, the firing order was okay too. I found another scrap engine with someone else and opened it up completely to understand what was happening inside. Now a rotary engine does not use camshafts nor valves so it was a new experience. After a few days of looking into the engine design, I realised that the fuel needed by the engine was unleaded. Back then in Kenya, there was only leaded fuel. This was the problem. The exhaust gases contained carbon deposits that were going into the catalytic convertor thus choking the exhaust system. I took a hammer and a chisel and pierced a large hole into the cat convertor. The engine started with one kick! We replaced the cat convertor with a standard silencer. However I told the owner that if he liked the car so much, he must import engine parts because the leaded fuel would wear down the compression rotor seals very quickly. Eventually I did get the scrap engine started by using materials from exhaust valve stems that run high temperatures. There are many times even these days I get some friends who call because their cars have problems that are not easy. So there you go. Put yourself in my shoes, I like to do programming because I want to be able to create my own systems when needed, not because it's available or some else has already done it. How can I achieve this with asp dot net when an end user cannot "publish" their page, as in like a Wiki? I thought about using the text-box as its the only input allowed, but how this will work with creation of new pages/links is beyond me at the moment. Cheers :-) Rgds. On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:

@Aki - by the time you're done I prime ting this guess what you'll have built -- a CMS

There are plenty of Wikis and CMS systems done in asp.net and c#. Pick one and run with it

It does not hurt to learn one more language, does it? Python is quite simple and you can grasp a lot of django in less than two weeks. Try it. I tried it and never looked back :) Martin.

@Aki when i refer you to code it is not necessarily to use as is. You can also check out the code and see how the software was built and use the ideas to roll out your own system if you are so inclined. These codebases have wisdom acquired over years and experience and making use of it is simple prudence. There is no law that says one must learn throught he school of hard knocks On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 11:24 AM, Steve Obbayi <steve@sobbayi.com> wrote:

@Aki the reason why you are struggling is because you assume changing languages when you hit a wall is the solution. First thing is for this purpose, you need to assume all languages can achieve the desired result (though not entirely true). Then you need to realize that its not the language that develops the application its the developer, in this case you. If you stick to a language or a bunch of languages and persist with them you will eventually become good and know how to solve any problem that hits you. If you are very familiar with a certain language it means...

1. You will have spent significant amount of time knowing the language 2. You will know where to get the right libraries/components etc 3. You will know where to get the best help when you are stuck (IRC, Forums, mailling list, Stackoverflow etc) or even better... 4. You will have identified an experienced human mentor in that area and established contact and made a relationship so you can run to them whenever you need to. 5. You will be familiar with uncommon bugs and gotchas, therefore know how to work around or avoid them.

There is more but with these in mind, you become more productive within your comfort language than changing languages where you have to start from the bottom once again. just coz others say so. But to achieve the above it takes time (years even) and constant hands on coding to become solid. Just like the guy who mentioned DJango. The problem with getting you to use DJango is that you now have to learn Python (time and resources overhead). He may be familiar with Django thats why its easy for him to mention it but with you, you will still have problems I can guarantee you.

So the question is are you competent enough in C# to move faster than you would if you try to learn Django, make mistakes and produce insecure code in Python? Because if C# is proving too much of a challenge then using an existing CMS or Wiki based on .NET may be the last resort.

------------------------------

*From: *"aki" <aki275@gmail.com>

*To: *"Skunkworks Mailing List" <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Sent: *Tuesday, January 17, 2012 10:31:58 AM

*Subject: *Re: [Skunkworks] A quick question to web developers....

Hi @Chris, my query has not yet been answered i.e creating a Wiki Site using, and in my case asp dot net and c#. Have I finally stumbled upon the reality that each programming language has its various shortfalls? It seems to me now that I may have to give up on my current programming language and move on to something else like e.g. python i.e start all over again. Am not sure at the moment what the next step is going to be because I cannot keep on wasting years on learning programming languages only to find their pitfalls in the end or when needed.

Any advice you can offer based on that I never want to use any CMS systems out there. ?

Best. :-)

On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 10:20 AM, Chris Mwirigi <mwirigic@gmail.com>wrote:

...

this digression means your previous query has been answered? and yeah python can do pretty much anything you want it to do. It is a programming language.

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------

Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------

Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke

@Martin, I am already very competent in Python (I also prefer it to C#). But between Python and C++ I feel more at home with C/C++... and the pain it comes with :)). So its not about me. This is about Aki. But speaking from personal experience, what is simple to one person may not be to another and that's the whole point I am making. Python is "Relatively" simple to learn, yes. The key word is relatively. It also depends on what you are creating. It might be simple in any language to make a "hello world" app. But to write a flight navigation system in any language regardless is whole different matter. But thats not the point. So anyway its Aki's choice that's why I advised him that if he feels he would get things done quicker in C# than he would if he starts over with Python then he can make the decision he sees fit. I know from historical mails here Aki is enthusiastic about C# so personally I'd rather he stick with it and maybe in 5 years he will be my preferred C# mentor :) ----- Original Message ----- | From: "Martin Chiteri" <martin.chiteri@gmail.com> | To: "Skunkworks Mailing List" <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> | Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 11:44:56 AM | Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] A quick question to web developers.... | @Steve, | A point of correction please. Python is fairly easy to learn, I can | guarantee you that. Just go to the language's Website and look at | the tutorial [ http://docs.python.org/tutorial/ ]. In printed pdf | copy, reading the manual upto page 70, 80 utmost will assure you of | a near solid understanding of the language even for complete | beginners. | For django, all you have to be familiar with are concepts of Web | application development. This you may have carried over from other | languages like PHP or PERL, JAVA, Ruby on Rails, etc. And two weeks | is not an exaggeration. The framework does so much for you, you | really need much less context (past knowledge / skills) to produce | excellent dynamic sites. All you need to know just the basics of the | Python programming language to manoeuvre effectively in django. | Am saying all these because I have worked with A.S.P .Net, PHP | (C/C++) to a larger extent and I think I have a good feel of what is | required in most cases. Also, it is virtually impossible to write an | insecure Web application in django. Once again, I encourage @Aki to | try it out and make his own assessment. Chances are high that he | will stick to it since it is quite simple and powerful to get things | done. | Martin. | _______________________________________________ | Skunkworks mailing list | Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke | ------------ | List info, subscribe/unsubscribe | http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks | ------------ | Skunkworks Rules | http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 | ------------ | Other services @ http://my.co.ke

@Aki My solution would be to create a table where there's an auto incremental field ~ ID(or something). when a new page is created, that ID(in my case) will be a page and this ID will be associated with whatever is added to the Page(s). to take your example www.nokplcpowerexample.whatever = ID_1 www.nokplcpowerexamaple.whatever/centralarea = ID_1_1 www.npkplcpowerexample.whatever/coastalarea = ID_1_2 www.nokplcpowerexample.whatevers = ID_2 www.nokplcpowerexamaple.whatevers/centralareas = ID_2_1 ... I believe this can be done using ASP.NET/SQL -- Many Thanks. Regards, http://about.me/cnongera Clement Ongera.

ScrewTurn wiki is pretty solid software. Download the source code and check it out On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 4:25 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:

Hey @Clement, thanks for the input. :-)

The problem I have is this : I as a site developer can use the tools and code to create the pages and layouts etc thus creating the pages and links is not a problem at all. I simply add the page IDs to an XMl file as elements which can be read from and displayed as normal links. In some cases I can use GUID too. The problem comes in when an end user has to create a page and because they cannot publish this page on the site unless they had the site creation tools, permissions. The classic example is a Wiki. The end user does not require any special tools or coding to achieve this. They just have a WYSIWYG portion where they type in whatever they want to do, click on SAVE and the page is automatically published within the site. I hope you have the overall picture now of what am trying to do. :-)

As recommended by @Rad, I've had a look at some asp dot net CMS wiki deployments and am checking under the hood further to understand the publishing part. Am also trying to find out what makes up a WYSIWYG editor, because I'd hate to depend on external code for this.

And a special thanks to @Rad for sending me down the road of looking under the hood to see how others implemented such a system. Wish some programmer in KE had also done a Wiki CMS from scratch and could share how they got it to work, then there was no need to use google.

Rgds.

On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 3:51 PM, Clement Ongera <cnongera@gmail.com>wrote:

...

@Aki My solution would be to create a table where there's an auto incremental field ~ ID(or something). when a new page is created, that ID(in my case) will be a page and this ID will be associated with whatever is added to the Page(s). to take your example www.nokplcpowerexample.whatever = ID_1 www.nokplcpowerexamaple.whatever/centralarea = ID_1_1 www.npkplcpowerexample.whatever/coastalarea = ID_1_2

www.nokplcpowerexample.whatevers = ID_2 www.nokplcpowerexamaple.whatevers/centralareas = ID_2_1 ...

I believe this can be done using ASP.NET/SQL

-- Many Thanks.

Regards, http://about.me/cnongera Clement Ongera.

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------

Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke

Hey @Rad, I looked into the source of this but its all in Java. However, since it is now established that a Wiki is possible on asp dot net, I'm now looking into file streams and I think I may have cracked it. Practical tests set for this weekend... :-))) I also looked into the WYSIWYG text editors and turns out its all done in JavaScript as its client side coding. Now for JS I don't have time for but am tempted to see how it works. I'm actually surprised that with all the web devs in KE who like JS, none has created created a local WYSIWUG text editor? Very strange... it is not difficult for those who are very good on JS. Anyway, will update next week how it wen on the wiki part. Rgds. :-) On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 4:36 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:

ScrewTurn wiki is pretty solid software. Download the source code and check it out

[ Ahem ] ..... progress(es) to report here? :) Martin.

Cheers @Rad, this makes a lot of sense. Will give it a try.. :-) On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 11:34 AM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:

@Aki when i refer you to code it is not necessarily to use as is.

You can also check out the code and see how the software was built and use the ideas to roll out your own system if you are so inclined.

These codebases have wisdom acquired over years and experience and making use of it is simple prudence.

There is no law that says one must learn throught he school of hard knocks

If i were you i'd drop silverlight and do html5 instead. On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 12:20 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:

@Steve,

Thnks for the input. :-)

I've spent the last 2 years learning C# and still have not mastered it as there are too many ways that things get done but the journey continues. Below is my study plan which I try to follow:

- C# - ASP DOT NET - LINQ for XML ( I don't like SQL too much, maybe later. Prefer XML as its lightweight ) - Have now added TCP programming to the study, as its needed for the input data on KPLC monitoring system - SilverLight ( for future web app developments )

I stay away from Java or anything that will add another layer of study because the time is just not there. I'd rather produce a site that is Web1.1 that functions as a systems core than produce Web2.0 that is just a display end user benefit. In my view Web2.0 is CMS=WebTemplates=WebImages=Flashy sites that are good for PR but have no functionality or at most will have functionality of a simple login process. But everyone has their own segments that interests them so will not be critical of the segments.

It's like C++, how would you use it on a Web App when reading data off a USB device?

Here's what KPLC monitoring system will need ( so far ):

- Inputs : USB/Network/POP3 and Streaming XML - Processing : By Date and Time Entry, later to be linked to Maps but data held for 24 hours due to security reasons - Display : Simple Web1.1 interface - Wiki Type of Site : Anyone in Kenya ( once authorised by site admin ) can create their own page and link the data inputs. - On POP3, some authentication will be needed so as to remove the spam as the data parsing, storage, updates will be automatic.

Any thoughtful suggestions?

Rgds.

On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 11:24 AM, Steve Obbayi <steve@sobbayi.com> wrote:

...

@Aki the reason why you are struggling is because you assume changing languages when you hit a wall is the solution. First thing is for this purpose, you need to assume all languages can achieve the desired result (though not entirely true). Then you need to realize that its not the language that develops the application its the developer, in this case you. If you stick to a language or a bunch of languages and persist with them you will eventually become good and know how to solve any problem that hits you. If you are very familiar with a certain language it means...

1. You will have spent significant amount of time knowing the language 2. You will know where to get the right libraries/components etc 3. You will know where to get the best help when you are stuck (IRC, Forums, mailling list, Stackoverflow etc) or even better... 4. You will have identified an experienced human mentor in that area and established contact and made a relationship so you can run to them whenever you need to. 5. You will be familiar with uncommon bugs and gotchas, therefore know how to work around or avoid them.

There is more but with these in mind, you become more productive within your comfort language than changing languages where you have to start from the bottom once again. just coz others say so. But to achieve the above it takes time (years even) and constant hands on coding to become solid. Just like the guy who mentioned DJango. The problem with getting you to use DJango is that you now have to learn Python (time and resources overhead). He may be familiar with Django thats why its easy for him to mention it but with you, you will still have problems I can guarantee you.

So the question is are you competent enough in C# to move faster than you would if you try to learn Django, make mistakes and produce insecure code in Python? Because if C# is proving too much of a challenge then using an existing CMS or Wiki based on .NET may be the last resort.

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------

Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke