is python ready for the enterprise
situation ------------- ukuta is a java crusader, but lately has had an uncanny attraction to python. dilemma ----------- java has been all but the enterprise rave in kenya with every new entrant declaring secure web services, robust enterprise apps and etc i am developing for openbravo (java) and openerp(python) and have to make a scary but firm choice. both projects are quite resource intensive and since i have only 2 brains (left/right which are never in agreement) and have to sleep at least 6 hours, time is an issue. i have to drop one of the projects....these are not commercial projects but r & d projects. those with genuine experience with both programming languages... please help...what do you see as the future of python? does python have a chance in the african enterprise environment which is largely driven by brand, ,ie microsoft, Oracle, etc? conclusion ---------------- ?
This is not so much a programming question as an industry (business) one. Java is not going away soon and python will only pick up in enterprises if those of you who are into it push (products developed using) it hard and well enough. Maybe if Sun (Java-ites) did as much market research as they do mathematics IBM would not have to bail (buy) them out! Unfortunately their programming experience has not brought them as much profit as some more market understanding would have. On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 11:29 AM, ukuta ken <ukutaken@gmail.com> wrote:
situation ------------- ukuta is a java crusader, but lately has had an uncanny attraction to python.
dilemma -----------
java has been all but the enterprise rave in kenya with every new entrant declaring secure web services, robust enterprise apps and etc i am developing for openbravo (java) and openerp(python) and have to make a scary but firm choice. both projects are quite resource intensive and since i have only 2 brains (left/right which are never in agreement) and have to sleep at least 6 hours, time is an issue.
i have to drop one of the projects....these are not commercial projects but r & d projects.
those with genuine experience with both programming languages... please help...what do you see as the future of python? does python have a chance in the african enterprise environment which is largely driven by brand, ,ie microsoft, Oracle, etc?
conclusion ----------------
?
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Enterprises support platforms and increasingly platforms are multi-lingual so one of the questions that begs an answer would be: does your platform of choice support the language (python and/or Java etc) that you want? Jython <http://www.jython.org/Project/> is a Python implementation for the Java platform and in case your platform of choice is MS-centric, the IronPython <http://www.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?ProjectName=IronPython>implementation targets .NET. The original python implementation still exists and continues to evolve.
From a programming language perspective, it is not an either/or decision. Learn both and understand the strengths and weaknesses of each so that it becomes a choice of which tool best suits the task at hand; IMO this puts you in a better position to handle whatever happens in the "African enterprise environment".
On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 11:29 AM, ukuta ken <ukutaken@gmail.com> wrote:
situation ------------- ukuta is a java crusader, but lately has had an uncanny attraction to python.
dilemma -----------
java has been all but the enterprise rave in kenya with every new entrant declaring secure web services, robust enterprise apps and etc i am developing for openbravo (java) and openerp(python) and have to make a scary but firm choice. both projects are quite resource intensive and since i have only 2 brains (left/right which are never in agreement) and have to sleep at least 6 hours, time is an issue.
i have to drop one of the projects....these are not commercial projects but r & d projects.
those with genuine experience with both programming languages... please help...what do you see as the future of python? does python have a chance in the african enterprise environment which is largely driven by brand, ,ie microsoft, Oracle, etc?
conclusion ----------------
?
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On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Emmanuel Taban <yuguuk@gmail.com> wrote:
...
Learn both and understand the strengths and weaknesses of each so that it becomes a choice of which tool best suits the task at hand.
...
Didn't you see the part where he said he has only 2 brains, and has to sleep at least 6 hours? :)
http://www.python.org/about/success/ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2007-September/630888.html On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 6:40 PM, Joseph Wayodi <jwayodi@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Emmanuel Taban <yuguuk@gmail.com> wrote:
...
Learn both and understand the strengths and weaknesses of each so that it becomes a choice of which tool best suits the task at hand.
...
Didn't you see the part where he said he has only 2 brains, and has to sleep at least 6 hours?
:)
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:-) ... I suppose a brain hemisphere for each is out of the question then ... as for six hours of sleep, it eventually comes down to a trade off: maintain 6 hrs of sleep or be better positioned to take advantage of whichever platform/language comes your way down the road. :-) On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 6:40 PM, Joseph Wayodi <jwayodi@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Emmanuel Taban <yuguuk@gmail.com> wrote:
...
Learn both and understand the strengths and weaknesses of each so that it becomes a choice of which tool best suits the task at hand.
...
Didn't you see the part where he said he has only 2 brains, and has to sleep at least 6 hours?
:)
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Google uses Python. Maybe Chris K. can tell why they choose it :-) On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 7:12 PM, Emmanuel Taban <yuguuk@gmail.com> wrote:
:-) ... I suppose a brain hemisphere for each is out of the question then ... as for six hours of sleep, it eventually comes down to a trade off: maintain 6 hrs of sleep or be better positioned to take advantage of whichever platform/language comes your way down the road. :-)
On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 6:40 PM, Joseph Wayodi <jwayodi@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Emmanuel Taban <yuguuk@gmail.com> wrote:
...
Learn both and understand the strengths and weaknesses of each so that it becomes a choice of which tool best suits the task at hand.
...
Didn't you see the part where he said he has only 2 brains, and has to sleep at least 6 hours?
:)
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See yesterday's announcement about Java on Google App Engine (which only supported Python during its first year): http://googleappengine.blogspot.com/2009/04/seriously-this-time-new-language... Incidentally, if you've developed something on App Engine, feel free to contact me off-list about possible opportunities going forward. Cheers, - Chris On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 11:44 PM, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com> wrote:
Google uses Python. Maybe Chris K. can tell why they choose it :-)
On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 7:12 PM, Emmanuel Taban <yuguuk@gmail.com> wrote:
:-) ... I suppose a brain hemisphere for each is out of the question then ... as for six hours of sleep, it eventually comes down to a trade off: maintain 6 hrs of sleep or be better positioned to take advantage of whichever platform/language comes your way down the road. :-)
On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 6:40 PM, Joseph Wayodi <jwayodi@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Emmanuel Taban <yuguuk@gmail.com> wrote:
...
Learn both and understand the strengths and weaknesses of each so that it becomes a choice of which tool best suits the task at hand.
...
Didn't you see the part where he said he has only 2 brains, and has to sleep at least 6 hours?
:)
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Read a recent article on one developers take on the '10 skills developers will need in the next five years' : http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/10things/?p=643 Please note point #1 and #6. So yeah...Java is a must have and Python is preferred as it teaches you new ways of thinking, that's if you are coming from a Java background. @Chris, great news on the Google App Engine announcement. Haven't worked with Google App Engine, but I have used Java for Google SSO with great success. KR, Loki "Excellent people exceed expectations". ________________________________ From: Christopher Kiagiri <ck@google.com> To: Skunkworks forum <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2009 11:00:18 AM Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] is python ready for the enterprise See yesterday's announcement about Java on Google App Engine (which only supported Python during its first year): http://googleappengine.blogspot.com/2009/04/seriously-this-time-new-language... Incidentally, if you've developed something on App Engine, feel free to contact me off-list about possible opportunities going forward. Cheers, - Chris On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 11:44 PM, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com> wrote: Google uses Python. Maybe Chris K. can tell why they choose it :-) On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 7:12 PM, Emmanuel Taban <yuguuk@gmail.com> wrote: :-) ... I suppose a brain hemisphere for each is out of the question then ... as for six hours of sleep, it eventually comes down to a trade off: maintain 6 hrs of sleep or be better positioned to take advantage of whichever platform/language comes your way down the road. :-) On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 6:40 PM, Joseph Wayodi <jwayodi@gmail.com> wrote: On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Emmanuel Taban <yuguuk@gmail.com> wrote: ... Learn both and understand the strengths and weaknesses of each so that it becomes a choice of which tool best suits the task at hand. ... Didn't you see the part where he said he has only 2 brains, and has to sleep at least 6 hours? :) _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke -- blog: http://imma.wordpress.com _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke
The TIOBE <http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html>index shows that over the last 5 years, the popularity of Java has decreased by 4.9%, while Python has increased by 5.07%. They are very clear in stating that this is a just measure of popularity. Is it a good idea to compare Java and Python? There could be a good reason to use both. Python is excellent for web stuff<http://www.google.com/support/jobs/bin/static.py?page=intl.html&jobslc=africa>while Java renders itself well to serious desktop applications. Some bloke on the net (I forgot where I read it) went as far as to say that Java for the web, i.e. Java applets, was killed long ago by Flash, and its grave cemented by Adobe Flex and AJAX. Its good to know PHP is among the big three<http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/10things/?p=643>, at least I got one more fact to justify why I was hired! Google App Engine is hosted abroad right? [If (answer=yes){] Given the numerous complains I've seen on this list regarding network issues, would it be a good idea to host critical apps on it? [}] @Chris, I've this hunch that you have a nifty app that scans this list and notifies you whenever a new post appears bearing certain keywords, am I right? :-) Regards, Peter. On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Nicholas Loki <lokimwenga@yahoo.com> wrote:
Read a recent article on one developers take on the '10 skills developers will need in the next five years' :
http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/10things/?p=643
Please note point #1 and #6. So yeah...Java is a must have and Python is preferred as it teaches you new ways of thinking, that's if you are coming from a Java background.
@Chris, great news on the Google App Engine announcement. Haven't worked with Google App Engine, but I have used Java for Google SSO with great success.
KR, Loki
"Excellent people exceed expectations".
------------------------------ *From:* Christopher Kiagiri <ck@google.com> *To:* Skunkworks forum <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Sent:* Thursday, April 9, 2009 11:00:18 AM *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] is python ready for the enterprise
See yesterday's announcement about Java on Google App Engine (which only supported Python during its first year):
http://googleappengine.blogspot.com/2009/04/seriously-this-time-new-language...
Incidentally, if you've developed something on App Engine, feel free to contact me off-list about possible opportunities going forward.
Cheers, - Chris
On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 11:44 PM, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com> wrote:
Google uses Python. Maybe Chris K. can tell why they choose it :-)
On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 7:12 PM, Emmanuel Taban <yuguuk@gmail.com> wrote:
:-) ... I suppose a brain hemisphere for each is out of the question then ... as for six hours of sleep, it eventually comes down to a trade off: maintain 6 hrs of sleep or be better positioned to take advantage of whichever platform/language comes your way down the road. :-)
On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 6:40 PM, Joseph Wayodi <jwayodi@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Emmanuel Taban <yuguuk@gmail.com>wrote:
...
Learn both and understand the strengths and weaknesses of each so that it becomes a choice of which tool best suits the task at hand.
...
Didn't you see the part where he said he has only 2 brains, and has to sleep at least 6 hours?
:)
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@Peter yes, the nifty app is called Gmail filters. :) As far as GAE being hosted abroad, Gmail is hosted abroad as well, or would you not consider Gmail critical? Anyway, hopefully 6 months from now, this will be a moot point as we sit around our fiber-connected broadband links talking about the way things used to be. - Chris On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 7:46 AM, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com> wrote:
The TIOBE<http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html>index shows that over the last 5 years, the popularity of Java has decreased by 4.9%, while Python has increased by 5.07%. They are very clear in stating that this is a just measure of popularity.
Is it a good idea to compare Java and Python? There could be a good reason to use both. Python is excellent for web stuff<http://www.google.com/support/jobs/bin/static.py?page=intl.html&jobslc=africa>while Java renders itself well to serious desktop applications. Some bloke on the net (I forgot where I read it) went as far as to say that Java for the web, i.e. Java applets, was killed long ago by Flash, and its grave cemented by Adobe Flex and AJAX.
Its good to know PHP is among the big three<http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/10things/?p=643>, at least I got one more fact to justify why I was hired!
Google App Engine is hosted abroad right? [If (answer=yes){] Given the numerous complains I've seen on this list regarding network issues, would it be a good idea to host critical apps on it? [}]
@Chris, I've this hunch that you have a nifty app that scans this list and notifies you whenever a new post appears bearing certain keywords, am I right? :-)
Regards, Peter.
On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Nicholas Loki <lokimwenga@yahoo.com>wrote:
Read a recent article on one developers take on the '10 skills developers will need in the next five years' :
http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/10things/?p=643
Please note point #1 and #6. So yeah...Java is a must have and Python is preferred as it teaches you new ways of thinking, that's if you are coming from a Java background.
@Chris, great news on the Google App Engine announcement. Haven't worked with Google App Engine, but I have used Java for Google SSO with great success.
KR, Loki
"Excellent people exceed expectations".
------------------------------ *From:* Christopher Kiagiri <ck@google.com> *To:* Skunkworks forum <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Sent:* Thursday, April 9, 2009 11:00:18 AM *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] is python ready for the enterprise
See yesterday's announcement about Java on Google App Engine (which only supported Python during its first year):
http://googleappengine.blogspot.com/2009/04/seriously-this-time-new-language...
Incidentally, if you've developed something on App Engine, feel free to contact me off-list about possible opportunities going forward.
Cheers, - Chris
On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 11:44 PM, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com>wrote:
Google uses Python. Maybe Chris K. can tell why they choose it :-)
On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 7:12 PM, Emmanuel Taban <yuguuk@gmail.com> wrote:
:-) ... I suppose a brain hemisphere for each is out of the question then ... as for six hours of sleep, it eventually comes down to a trade off: maintain 6 hrs of sleep or be better positioned to take advantage of whichever platform/language comes your way down the road. :-)
On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 6:40 PM, Joseph Wayodi <jwayodi@gmail.com>wrote:
On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Emmanuel Taban <yuguuk@gmail.com>wrote:
...
Learn both and understand the strengths and weaknesses of each so that it becomes a choice of which tool best suits the task at hand.
...
Didn't you see the part where he said he has only 2 brains, and has to sleep at least 6 hours?
:)
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One would have to have programmed in both to form a hypothesis. Python supports decorators, multiple inheritance, list comprehensions and iterators, which enable a program to work on sequences much larger than the machine's RAM, by having only one sequence item in memory at a time. Parallel programming where one can run as many processes as there are cores is made easy with ParallelPython, UnladenSwallow aims to make this feature inbuilt in python, and make the interpreter significantly faster. Projects like Scapy tell of its network programming capabilities, with the ability to use SOCK_RAW natively being realy cool. At the very least, Python is well suited for mathematically intensive applications, parallel processing, and projects involving multiple developers, because of its clean clear syntax. @robert: I had to resort to blacklisting the sender address at the server On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 6:17 PM, Christopher Kiagiri <ck@google.com> wrote:
@Peter yes, the nifty app is called Gmail filters. :)
As far as GAE being hosted abroad, Gmail is hosted abroad as well, or would you not consider Gmail critical? Anyway, hopefully 6 months from now, this will be a moot point as we sit around our fiber-connected broadband links talking about the way things used to be.
- Chris
On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 7:46 AM, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com> wrote:
The TIOBE<http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html>index shows that over the last 5 years, the popularity of Java has decreased by 4.9%, while Python has increased by 5.07%. They are very clear in stating that this is a just measure of popularity.
Is it a good idea to compare Java and Python? There could be a good reason to use both. Python is excellent for web stuff<http://www.google.com/support/jobs/bin/static.py?page=intl.html&jobslc=africa>while Java renders itself well to serious desktop applications. Some bloke on the net (I forgot where I read it) went as far as to say that Java for the web, i.e. Java applets, was killed long ago by Flash, and its grave cemented by Adobe Flex and AJAX.
Its good to know PHP is among the big three<http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/10things/?p=643>, at least I got one more fact to justify why I was hired!
Google App Engine is hosted abroad right? [If (answer=yes){] Given the numerous complains I've seen on this list regarding network issues, would it be a good idea to host critical apps on it? [}]
@Chris, I've this hunch that you have a nifty app that scans this list and notifies you whenever a new post appears bearing certain keywords, am I right? :-)
Regards, Peter.
On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Nicholas Loki <lokimwenga@yahoo.com>wrote:
Read a recent article on one developers take on the '10 skills developers will need in the next five years' :
http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/10things/?p=643
Please note point #1 and #6. So yeah...Java is a must have and Python is preferred as it teaches you new ways of thinking, that's if you are coming from a Java background.
@Chris, great news on the Google App Engine announcement. Haven't worked with Google App Engine, but I have used Java for Google SSO with great success.
KR, Loki
"Excellent people exceed expectations".
------------------------------ *From:* Christopher Kiagiri <ck@google.com> *To:* Skunkworks forum <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Sent:* Thursday, April 9, 2009 11:00:18 AM *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] is python ready for the enterprise
See yesterday's announcement about Java on Google App Engine (which only supported Python during its first year):
http://googleappengine.blogspot.com/2009/04/seriously-this-time-new-language...
Incidentally, if you've developed something on App Engine, feel free to contact me off-list about possible opportunities going forward.
Cheers, - Chris
On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 11:44 PM, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com>wrote:
Google uses Python. Maybe Chris K. can tell why they choose it :-)
On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 7:12 PM, Emmanuel Taban <yuguuk@gmail.com>wrote:
:-) ... I suppose a brain hemisphere for each is out of the question then ... as for six hours of sleep, it eventually comes down to a trade off: maintain 6 hrs of sleep or be better positioned to take advantage of whichever platform/language comes your way down the road. :-)
On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 6:40 PM, Joseph Wayodi <jwayodi@gmail.com>wrote:
On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Emmanuel Taban <yuguuk@gmail.com>wrote:
> ...
> Learn both and understand the strengths and weaknesses of each so > that it becomes a choice of which tool best suits the task at hand. >
> ... > > Didn't you see the part where he said he has only 2 brains, and has to sleep at least 6 hours?
:)
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Talent works & rights enforcement ltd came to my establishment today- the said that all the music on my computer was a copyright infringement & they have the right to take away the computers.( i am currently missing a couple of my flash disks & some amount. How exactly does copyright in kenya work? _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke _________________________________________________________________ News, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Get it now! http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx
WTF! They have to prove that: 1) They are authorized to do this in lieu of CSK 2) They have to prove that digital audio is covered by laws of kenya (Gakuru ?) 3) That the music is not yours/Was acquired illegally AFAICT, MP3 is totally legit if u have the purchased cds coz it's a backup of your CDs. 4) They have to return your stuff coz it's your personal property. So I'd actually tell the police I was robbed by the company. The much they can do as far as I know is hold your property and submit as evidence during a court hearing 5) You should have videotaped/Audio taped them taking a bribe. My take 1) Run OpenBSD - i.e. Something that'd freak them out at boot 2) Store your audio/warez on an encrypted FS. man losetup etc http://www.hopelesscase.com/linuxnotes/encrypted_filesystems/dmsetup_and_los... http://www.shell-tips.com/2008/07/13/using-losetup-and-dd-to-secure-sensitiv... http://encryptionhowto.sourceforge.net/Encryption-HOWTO-6.html IANAL but that is some crazy stuff right there. BSA wasn't as bad at their height. On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 6:30 PM, njeri mwangi <njeri_m@hotmail.com> wrote:
Talent works & rights enforcement ltd came to my establishment today- the said that all the music on my computer was a copyright infringement & they have the right to take away the computers.( i am currently missing a couple of my flash disks & some amount.
How exactly does copyright in kenya work? ________________________________
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On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 8:28 PM, Lmwangi <lmwangi@gmail.com> wrote:
They have to prove that: 1) They are authorized to do this in lieu of CSK 2) They have to prove that digital audio is covered by laws of kenya (Gakuru ?)
I saw this coming after I read Njeri's post, shuddered... Immediately requested for the ICT Standards Task Force meeting. serve on it pushing for, among others, local intellectual property rights protection (further to Wesley's game patenting challenges.) In case you did not know, estimated 70% of high school kids are on mig33.com for mobile phone chat. They use it to download ring tones, mp3 songs, movies, pictures, etc. Does it mean these foreign companies-interests agents now have rights to take all of Kenyans 16 million phones to check for suspected "license infringed" ring tones/songs? Therefore, I've just invited Cathy Mputhia to next Tuesday's MMU meeting. We've been having a conversation following "Who does the copyright law protect?" http://www.bdafrica.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13036&Item.... Hope she agrees to come speak to skunkworks pro-bono. ----- New Media - Food for thought: (wikipedia) Positive: New media, and particularly the Internet, provides the potential for a democratic postmodern public sphere, in which citizens can participate in well informed, non-hierarchical debate pertaining to their social structures.(Douglas Kellner and James Bohman) Negative: The transition to new media has seen a handful of powerful transnational telecommunications corporations who achieve a level of global influence which was hitherto unimaginable. (Ed Herman and Robert McChesney) ---- We may be looking to develop local content (software, music, videos, websites, etc) but are we equally protecting that local content from foreigners plagiarisms with the same zeal they protect theirs locally? (with the help of Kenyan law enforcement agents funded by taxpayers)
Hi Good people, we have a big problem, but it can be small on skunk team. there is this Google called Bidii Africa, it keeps on spamming and clogging our emails. with emails which we haven't subscribe for. how can i get rid of this monster?????? -- Regards, Robert.
participants (12)
-
Christopher Kiagiri -
Emmanuel Taban -
Gakuru Alex -
Joseph Wayodi -
Lmwangi -
Murigi Muraya -
Nicholas Loki -
njeri mwangi -
Peter Karunyu -
Robert Kuria -
Timothy Makobu -
ukuta ken