Kenya's e-Health and You. It's time to create the system because November is the exhibition date for such vendors.
Yes, Gentlemen & Ladies. One of the interesting things that I learnt from the kictanet thread is that the govt is circled with brokers waiting as vultures to pounce on any govt projects. The same way that area chief's ( locals ) made colonialism successful through selling out freedom fighters and their locations, these brokers/vendors don't give a damn about the long terms effects on the economy. For them its about being in a position to supply a vendor product that meets the specs of the project and become successful enterprenuers. The rest of kenyans in the dev sector can go and jump off a bridge, for all they care. So now it is War! ( In a tech sense, not literally ) :-) Now, we have a great chance to do something about this and such times make me regret I wish I had enough time to have completed my programming study so as to be able to approach any commercial projects. However, all is not lost and I share this idea with you. Whether you are on open source or even proprietory, good at programming and creating systems as those required in the e-Health project, no matter what platform used and as long as the* core engine is done locally* whether to run on IBM servers etc, we are on the first steps towards building on e-Govt projects and to prove that all the bulloks of shoody contractors is just talk to avoid local development. Do you mean all the innovators at iHub ( upto 3000 of them ) are shoddy?! iHub has an army of talent, and so do other software developer companies. Is it possible to treat this e-Health system as a joint project? I saw the vendor participation fees as $4500, pretty steep for most local dev companies so am thinking of ways of how we can raise this amount so that the joint venture can present its local version of the system with all the bells and whistles. Do we stand a chance and take back what is ours and give you the chance to be the next high tech group from KE? If anyone has the specs of the e-Health proposal or vision that has been laid out under govt/foreign, it would help to know. What we know for sure is that such a system should have SMS involved somewhere, web portals, security access and mobility. Me thots, please give you kind attention to this thread and see how you can help/make it happen. :-)
Dear all, I firmly and honestly believe that we can put up a BETTER e-health system than Google although their support and collaboration would be appreciated. I know for a fact that we can implement a system based on OpenMRS that has been customized for the Kenyan laws and regulations. Even the pharmacy component would be able to ensure there were fewer drug shortage at the village level. These systems have to be used by medical personnel with little or no ICT training. They will have to be trained which leads to employment for local Kenyans. I can tell you from experience that this will be no small task, but will significantly increase the amount of data we have on our national health situation. In addition, as I have spend a time in rural hospitals and clinics it is necessary at the same time to deliver educational materials for continuing medical education and certification to the staff with incentives. If we really want to CHANGE the medical system in Kenya using ICT it is critical that we examine the plethora of factors which reduce the efficiency and effectiveness of the current healthcare system. So I have been testing equipment and toying with the idea of low cost touch Android tablets with Community healthcare data. This would begin the process of data collection as our current medical records systems does not gather a medical history and rather in many cases gives each patient a number which is put in a paper file and is stacked to the ceiling. If we start from a different approach and empower the community health workers and increase the power of the medical personnel to utilize technology to improve medical care we will have a entirely different outcome than the current high maternal mortality, high child mortality, and poorly trained staff. This project that SHOULD be presented as a joint venture with local talent. We have the skills and resources necessary to do it, or else we are all a bunch of big fat liars who keep saying Kenya ICT this and Kenya ICT that but can't really pull off anything to make our country stronger. My friend Paul has come up with the model attached for a system. It can be a starting point, I am sure out there somewhere even within the iHub itself are most of the components and people required. The question is are we going to be given a chance? Best, Crystal On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 7:39 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes, Gentlemen & Ladies. One of the interesting things that I learnt from the kictanet thread is that the govt is circled with brokers waiting as vultures to pounce on any govt projects. The same way that area chief's ( locals ) made colonialism successful through selling out freedom fighters and their locations, these brokers/vendors don't give a damn about the long terms effects on the economy. For them its about being in a position to supply a vendor product that meets the specs of the project and become successful enterprenuers. The rest of kenyans in the dev sector can go and jump off a bridge, for all they care.
So now it is War! ( In a tech sense, not literally ) :-)
Now, we have a great chance to do something about this and such times make me regret I wish I had enough time to have completed my programming study so as to be able to approach any commercial projects. However, all is not lost and I share this idea with you. Whether you are on open source or even proprietory, good at programming and creating systems as those required in the e-Health project, no matter what platform used and as long as the*core engine is done locally * whether to run on IBM servers etc, we are on the first steps towards building on e-Govt projects and to prove that all the bulloks of shoody contractors is just talk to avoid local development. Do you mean all the innovators at iHub ( upto 3000 of them ) are shoddy?!
iHub has an army of talent, and so do other software developer companies. Is it possible to treat this e-Health system as a joint project? I saw the vendor participation fees as $4500, pretty steep for most local dev companies so am thinking of ways of how we can raise this amount so that the joint venture can present its local version of the system with all the bells and whistles.
Do we stand a chance and take back what is ours and give you the chance to be the next high tech group from KE?
If anyone has the specs of the e-Health proposal or vision that has been laid out under govt/foreign, it would help to know. What we know for sure is that such a system should have SMS involved somewhere, web portals, security access and mobility.
Me thots, please give you kind attention to this thread and see how you can help/make it happen. :-)
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@Crystal, to try and answer your question on whether we would be given a chance, I think that would I've been a good system programmer at the end of my study completion my nearest chance of any success would be to have discussed e.g the e-Health program with say Safaricom, other major telcos and even Mobile Vendors. And this is where the might of Corporates like Safaricom can really push their weight because of the system design and technology ownership. Safaricom so far has been looking at developers with tiny apps and blind, it has never had the proper department nor people to realize that it has been shooting itself in the leg in terms of business growth ( unfortunately, I can say no more...... ). So while we may start lacking people who want to produce a joint venture so as to build a future in the high tech sector, there are always options. Imagine if Safaricom created, deployed and made the e-Health system available to its millions of subscribers, no govt initiative nor brokers can match that kind of success. But there is always an emphasis that local companies and individuals etc should come together. If anyone has learnt about the success of the Real Estate Industry and major property developments, they will notice that these are groups of people who came together to form the backbone of investment companies that made the developments possible. @Erick, if what you write is true, then I stand by my earlier threads that govts are following the two tier programs where they exactly know what they are doing but prefer to pretend about such developments. If this is the case, then unfortunately the games and the mis-informations being done in the name of local development are really non-productive. It would be even more sad that some University in Norway is using Open Source to produce the e-Health system for kenya while there is literally an army and strong following of Open Source developers and companies in kenya. Somehow, it would show us how bad the situation has become that even Open Source has not been left untouched by international policies and grants. Somehow when I watched the budget today, The Hon Minister of Finance was splasing millions and billions here and there, I was just amazed at the target of 780billion to be raised between 2011-2012. Me thots.
Good people, Please allow me to express my humblest opinions. We have some kick ass ninja programmers, system analysts, UX designers, database developers, marketers, testers, trainers, tech support and 'thinkers', most of them on this list. The problem is that we are all in our own little cocoons doing our own projects, rarely do we come together. Most of us will NOT get out of our comfort zone to go engage the government, what we will do is rant on this list and expect someone else to take our rant/ideas and work on them. For example, I often rant about how government web apps are not optimized for speed or the UI is not user centered, yet, rarely will I go to KRA and tell them, specifically, how they can make the ITMS more user friendly. So, what I think we need to do is STOP talking all the time, and start walking the talk. Engage the government! On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 9:14 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
@Crystal, to try and answer your question on whether we would be given a chance, I think that would I've been a good system programmer at the end of my study completion my nearest chance of any success would be to have discussed e.g the e-Health program with say Safaricom, other major telcos and even Mobile Vendors. And this is where the might of Corporates like Safaricom can really push their weight because of the system design and technology ownership. Safaricom so far has been looking at developers with tiny apps and blind, it has never had the proper department nor people to realize that it has been shooting itself in the leg in terms of business growth ( unfortunately, I can say no more...... ). So while we may start lacking people who want to produce a joint venture so as to build a future in the high tech sector, there are always options. Imagine if Safaricom created, deployed and made the e-Health system available to its millions of subscribers, no govt initiative nor brokers can match that kind of success. But there is always an emphasis that local companies and individuals etc should come together. If anyone has learnt about the success of the Real Estate Industry and major property developments, they will notice that these are groups of people who came together to form the backbone of investment companies that made the developments possible.
@Erick, if what you write is true, then I stand by my earlier threads that govts are following the two tier programs where they exactly know what they are doing but prefer to pretend about such developments. If this is the case, then unfortunately the games and the mis-informations being done in the name of local development are really non-productive. It would be even more sad that some University in Norway is using Open Source to produce the e-Health system for kenya while there is literally an army and strong following of Open Source developers and companies in kenya. Somehow, it would show us how bad the situation has become that even Open Source has not been left untouched by international policies and grants. Somehow when I watched the budget today, The Hon Minister of Finance was splasing millions and billions here and there, I was just amazed at the target of 780billion to be raised between 2011-2012.
Me thots.
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@Peter, thnks your comments and well put. When I post threads and if anyone can make good of them, then even better because not one signle person can cover a large area. However I must disgaree, imho saying that we need to engage the same govt that has so far proved to be using double standards on very important projects that affect national importance, dialogue cannot be possible. They need to heed the calls on this list for local involvement without any delays nor excuses and have the goodwill to invite all the players in the dev sectors and forge a systematic approach towards national ICT goals. Simply claiming that locally developed apps don't exist is immature thinking beyond words. You cannot have a situation where someone from KICTB/Min of Info goes and brags about innovation/local entreprenuership e.g. at iHub or other public tech events and then goes back to the office and signs a World Bank deal with Google to digitize a project. That is total nonsense. And to correct any notions that my threads are anti-western, they are not. What we need is for developed partnerships between the donors and local companies, especially in the CORE of systems ( Not just supply chains, human resources, or even support roles). If we are just creating kibarua computer jobs for ICT kenyans through donor partnerships, then it is no different for those who became farm labourers on their own lands. When my time comes, I'll be ready to walk the talk , but until then I have to air my views on such forums. Rgds. :-) On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 9:49 AM, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com> wrote:
Good people, Please allow me to express my humblest opinions. We have some kick ass ninja programmers, system analysts, UX designers, database developers, marketers, testers, trainers, tech support and 'thinkers', most of them on this list.
The problem is that we are all in our own little cocoons doing our own projects, rarely do we come together.
Most of us will NOT get out of our comfort zone to go engage the government, what we will do is rant on this list and expect someone else to take our rant/ideas and work on them. For example, I often rant about how government web apps are not optimized for speed or the UI is not user centered, yet, rarely will I go to KRA and tell them, specifically, how they can make the ITMS more user friendly.
So, what I think we need to do is STOP talking all the time, and start walking the talk. Engage the government!
My 2 cents: GOK focuses purely on DB management. Have a structure, build an API around it, Work on permissions and authorizations and all... Then let every hospital work on how to fetch, and how to get data onto the system. Thats more transparent, enables GOK to focus on whats really important to them and creates more jobs to the REAL programmers in the industry. That way if you want to run $oft, or *nix, (or Windows 8 ), you knock yourself out kabisa.... What do you guys think? On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 10:34 AM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
@Peter, thnks your comments and well put.
When I post threads and if anyone can make good of them, then even better because not one signle person can cover a large area. However I must disgaree, imho saying that we need to engage the same govt that has so far proved to be using double standards on very important projects that affect national importance, dialogue cannot be possible. They need to heed the calls on this list for local involvement without any delays nor excuses and have the goodwill to invite all the players in the dev sectors and forge a systematic approach towards national ICT goals. Simply claiming that locally developed apps don't exist is immature thinking beyond words. You cannot have a situation where someone from KICTB/Min of Info goes and brags about innovation/local entreprenuership e.g. at iHub or other public tech events and then goes back to the office and signs a World Bank deal with Google to digitize a project. That is total nonsense.
And to correct any notions that my threads are anti-western, they are not. What we need is for developed partnerships between the donors and local companies, especially in the CORE of systems ( Not just supply chains, human resources, or even support roles). If we are just creating kibarua computer jobs for ICT kenyans through donor partnerships, then it is no different for those who became farm labourers on their own lands.
When my time comes, I'll be ready to walk the talk , but until then I have to air my views on such forums.
Rgds. :-)
On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 9:49 AM, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com> wrote:
Good people, Please allow me to express my humblest opinions. We have some kick ass ninja programmers, system analysts, UX designers, database developers, marketers, testers, trainers, tech support and 'thinkers', most of them on this list.
The problem is that we are all in our own little cocoons doing our own projects, rarely do we come together.
Most of us will NOT get out of our comfort zone to go engage the government, what we will do is rant on this list and expect someone else to take our rant/ideas and work on them. For example, I often rant about how government web apps are not optimized for speed or the UI is not user centered, yet, rarely will I go to KRA and tell them, specifically, how they can make the ITMS more user friendly.
So, what I think we need to do is STOP talking all the time, and start walking the talk. Engage the government!
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-- *“The twentieth century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: the growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy”* ~ Alex Carey ~ Tel No: 0x2af23696
And that's a super hit, Areba! :-) Exactly, because from the same core systems that were developed by local programmers we will see the emergence of a very innovative high tech sector. The same process that produced the CORE can be replicated within many e-Govt projects, and now we have the the complete ability to improve, innovate and possibly export the CORE. The "Add-Ons" can be developed to cater for almost any use, altered or even ported to various platforms. List of endless tasks, possibly leading to a high tech sector and patents: - Security Modules - Display Systems Modules - DataBase backup and mirroring modules - SMS and Email and Cloud Services modules Then the govts can stick the label "INNOVATION" at every corner and know we created and earned it. simple thots. On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 10:40 AM, [ Brainiac ] <arebacollins@gmail.com>wrote:
My 2 cents:
GOK focuses purely on DB management. Have a structure, build an API around it, Work on permissions and authorizations and all...
Then let every hospital work on how to fetch, and how to get data onto the system. Thats more transparent, enables GOK to focus on whats really important to them and creates more jobs to the REAL programmers in the industry. That way if you want to run $oft, or *nix, (or Windows 8 ), you knock yourself out kabisa....
What do you guys think?
Crystal and Collins, there was a panel that discussed use of mobile in health initiatives at the recent elearning conference in Dar , http://www.cio.co.ke/Main-Stories/mobile-phone-presents-innovative-learning-...
I hope an app that does this will not show up on an Apple while we are still in the "discussion" phase. These days things move pretty fast, we have to move faster. Osotsi On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 11:12 AM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
Crystal and Collins, there was a panel that discussed use of mobile in health initiatives at the recent elearning conference in Dar , http://www.cio.co.ke/Main-Stories/mobile-phone-presents-innovative-learning-...
___________________________________
Dear all, @aki I have proposed ideas to the government on many levels in this field with always the same result... silence. @Dennis Thank you for sharing the link. What I think some of us are missing on this is that we as Kenyans have to make Kenyan solutions for Kenyan problems. I can tell you very directly as a public health professional by training that what is needed here is different than what is needed in other countries. If Kenya is the ICT haven we claim it is we should be the first innovating these things on a national scale and scope with appropriate and adequate resources. In these terms Google and other large organizations should PARTNER with those already operating throughout the country. The issue is the transaction of large amount between big players without sustainable industry development in mind. Could we rally for a government partnership with Google, USAID, and KENYAN ENTREPRENEURS? It would be an opportunity to really showcase the talent possessed within our borders. USAID is in most of the hospitals and clinics in Kenya, they have been piloting e-training systems in Western province. The trainings were very successful, and as we were able to do the followup interviews and evaluation study, we could see the needs very clearly and a software program no matter how complex could meet the ICT needs of the rural populations and slum populations (a vast majority in terms of % of our country). A nationwide e-health program would need to be designed and implemented by more than the MoH and MoICT as it would require everything from solar panels on small clinics just so they can participate to massive staff trainings. This is IN ADDITION to the software development. So if the DUE date is November... what can we tangibly do? On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 11:12 AM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
Crystal and Collins, there was a panel that discussed use of mobile in health initiatives at the recent elearning conference in Dar , http://www.cio.co.ke/Main-Stories/mobile-phone-presents-innovative-learning-...
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-- Crystal "Naliaka" Watley Kigoni Executive Director Voices of Africa for Sustainable Development crystal@voicesofafrica.org http://www.voicesofafrica.org/ Twitter: VOA4SD Skype: crystal.naliaka Facebook group: Voices of Africa<http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_103722386364001&ap=1#%21/group.php?gid=139035902779599> Facebook cause: Voices of Africa<http://www.causes.com/causes/102634-voices-of-africa-for-sustainable-development?recruiter_id=16731206> YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/CrystalKigoni LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=20585778&trk=tab_pro> "You must be the change you wish to see" - Gandhi
On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 11:35 AM, Crystal Watley Kigoni < crystal@voicesofafrica.org> wrote:
Dear all,
@aki I have proposed ideas to the government on many levels in this field with always the same result... silence.
@Crystal, if you have failed at this, and it is also possible that many others have too who are silent or not on the list, then I see no immediate solution. The reason I mentioned November as the date is because AITEC will have an exhibition/Conference on AfriHealth and vendors who will showcase the products. Let's give it sometime and see how the thread goes. Rgds.
The government is already using some locally developed solutions in some of the public health departments like EID (Early Infant Diagnosis), IDSR (Integrated Disease Surveillance and Reporting) and more are in the pipeline. -- Thanks and Regards, Erick Njenga Nyachwaya, M: +254-725-008-790 <http://www.facebook.com/ErickNjenga> <http://www.twitter.com/ErickNjenga>
@Erick, thanks for sharing some info. Would you know whether the solutions were external tailor-made software tweaked and sold by entreprenuers to govt or entirely systems created locally and used? There is a very big key difference between the two. Rgds. :-) On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 12:22 PM, Erick Njenga <eriknjenga@gmail.com> wrote:
The government is already using some locally developed solutions in some of the public health departments like EID (Early Infant Diagnosis), IDSR (Integrated Disease Surveillance and Reporting) and more are in the pipeline.
They were made from scratch by Former and Current Strathmore students in collaboration with the Clinton Health Access Initiative. The systems are not sold to the Government. The same systems are also in the process of being deployed in other countries in Africa. -- Thanks and Regards, Erick Njenga Nyachwaya, M: +254-725-008-790 <http://www.facebook.com/ErickNjenga> <http://www.twitter.com/ErickNjenga>
@Erick, sounds good and I wish the project devs more success. Any idea of how much innovation has taken place on these locally developed solutions. I bet the norm is collecting patient data, but how much has the project escalated into becoming its own entity? Are any of the former students thinking about the e-Health systems or even using the knowledge gained to further the dev industry or are we looking any major breakthroughs of ICT use in e-Health in terms of software systems? On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 12:53 PM, Erick Njenga <eriknjenga@gmail.com> wrote:
They were made from scratch by Former and Current Strathmore students in collaboration with the Clinton Health Access Initiative. The systems are not sold to the Government. The same systems are also in the process of being deployed in other countries in Africa.
My question will remain, where are our Universities? I believe coding is a better way of spending your time then figuring out the optimal methods of shattering windscreens with projectiles?? On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 1:59 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
@Erick, sounds good and I wish the project devs more success. Any idea of how much innovation has taken place on these locally developed solutions. I bet the norm is collecting patient data, but how much has the project escalated into becoming its own entity? Are any of the former students thinking about the e-Health systems or even using the knowledge gained to further the dev industry or are we looking any major breakthroughs of ICT use in e-Health in terms of software systems?
On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 12:53 PM, Erick Njenga <eriknjenga@gmail.com>wrote:
They were made from scratch by Former and Current Strathmore students in collaboration with the Clinton Health Access Initiative. The systems are not sold to the Government. The same systems are also in the process of being deployed in other countries in Africa.
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@Aki, could you expound more on what exactly you mean by innovation? I'm not privy to how far the systems will go but will let you know of any progress. cheers. -- Thanks and Regards, Erick Njenga Nyachwaya, M: +254-725-008-790 <http://www.facebook.com/ErickNjenga> <http://www.twitter.com/ErickNjenga>
@Erick, imagine that you as the system programmer are the parent of a new born and that you are not aware of any diseases/infections at child birth or early stages that can cost the life of your child. How would you then want the system to be that could possibly save the life of your child? The system designed can have the ability to speed up a response or diagnosis. Since those involved in the developer project have been exposed to the medical environment, they all should be able to take up the info from the meds and further enchance the system. The connection between the reality and what can be achieved, is the heart of innovation. On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 2:08 PM, Erick Njenga <eriknjenga@gmail.com> wrote:
@Aki, could you expound more on what exactly you mean by innovation? I'm not privy to how far the systems will go but will let you know of any progress. cheers.
The heart of any network is how well it serves its intended purpose. In the case of an e-health system for Kenya the point is to increase the well being of the Kenya population by providing the services they need. In some cases, this could be hand washing campaigns to reduce typhoid, but at this time the data has not been collected due to the lack of ICT in the field at the village level. Therefore many of our best development efforts are hit and miss rather than data based. BUT in order for anything to work it MUST meet the needs of the people themselves and be easily understood which will require local content generation on a more real level than the Flintstone in Kikuyu. Interfaces should be easy to use and for the wanachini to understand. Also we need to make sure that we are investing in the skills of the hospital personnel. I cannot emphasize this enough because ultimately the end delivery and the make or break point in the system is right there. No matter how good the tech is, nothing will change unless the people do. The best tech does nothing in the hands of someone who doesn't use it. Just look at how many schools were given computers which are now collecting dust in storerooms because of the lack of capacity building. This needs to be considered on an ecosystem level from the top of the government to the most remote corners of the country on a individual level. I believe many of us are holding a piece, but we have not put them together to form the puzzle yet. On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 2:47 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
@Erick, imagine that you as the system programmer are the parent of a new born and that you are not aware of any diseases/infections at child birth or early stages that can cost the life of your child. How would you then want the system to be that could possibly save the life of your child? The system designed can have the ability to speed up a response or diagnosis. Since those involved in the developer project have been exposed to the medical environment, they all should be able to take up the info from the meds and further enchance the system. The connection between the reality and what can be achieved, is the heart of innovation.
On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 2:08 PM, Erick Njenga <eriknjenga@gmail.com> wrote:
@Aki, could you expound more on what exactly you mean by innovation? I'm not privy to how far the systems will go but will let you know of any progress. cheers.
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-- Crystal "Naliaka" Watley Kigoni Executive Director Voices of Africa for Sustainable Development crystal@voicesofafrica.org http://www.voicesofafrica.org/ Twitter: VOA4SD Skype: crystal.naliaka Facebook group: Voices of Africa<http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_103722386364001&ap=1#%21/group.php?gid=139035902779599> Facebook cause: Voices of Africa<http://www.causes.com/causes/102634-voices-of-africa-for-sustainable-development?recruiter_id=16731206> YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/CrystalKigoni LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=20585778&trk=tab_pro> "You must be the change you wish to see" - Gandhi
How can someone in Europe or any other part of the world design an e-health system for Kenya from St.Elsewhere? Am saying this because to develop a good system you need to understand where we are and where we want to go. Hence a good e-health system is not only about information and technology, its about understanding the processes, objectives and values, staffing and skills, management structures etc All these aspects can only be understood better by local people. You need collaboration of all players in the health sector to build a good system i.e the health professionals (health professional identification systems), the views of the public because they are the patients, you need health providers both private and public including insurance companies; lastly you need a good legislative framework (data privacy and protection). So I don’t believe some one can purport to be designing an e-health system for Kenya from some University in Norway, if indeed there is such a system it is then designed to fail or it should be investigated by KACC because it is a way to defraud the country some money, also you cannot just pull a system (OTS) from another country and use it in Kenya; you have to do some reality check because Kenya is not India or Norway or SA. Do we honestly think that Kenya's health administrative issues can be solved by a system? I highly doubt. Why am I saying this? e.g. KEMSA have a locally modified ERP system but still they have expired drugs in their stores, while there are some district hospitals that need the same drugs. The local IT community need to work more closely and with collaboration, look at problems and lobby the government, because technology is not about programming and coding only or having web this and that or mobile this and that. It is addressing a national or global problem by enriching life to make it more efficient. Having said that IT people cannot work in isolation they need to work with Business Planners, Business Model Specialist, Product Managers and Marketers specialist,Investors,Value Chain Specialist, Lawyers etc.so ihub should also allow other non-IT people into the hub. I know there has been lots of debate on Investors and funding, if the funding from Bretton Woods and the government is not forthcoming how about people who have made their careers and riches through IT, if people who have made all their careers and riches in IT can not support others then who will? I know of many IT companies owned by people in this list who make between 24-75 million USD a year.e.g Craft Silicon has made 10 billion in the last 10 years, MJ, Seven Seas, East Africa Capital Partners etc have the resource and clout to start venture capital or act as angel investors. As insiders if they made a deliberate effort to support other young and upcoming innovators we can head somewhere. Silicon Valley was largely built by networks of people and companies whose interlocking relationships help to spawn new start-ups e.g. After selling Paypal for 1.5 billion USD to eBay, its founders and alumni have helped both financially and intellectually to start up numerous internet start-ups e.g. Yelp, Youtube, LinkedIn, Slide, Room9Entertainment, Spacex among others. So much that in October 17 2006 NY times run a story called It Pays to have Pals at Paypal. The government also has a very important role; they can create an enabling environment especially to protect the ideas through effective and efficient copy right laws and patenting system, creating subsidies for research etc the government can also give more business to local IT companies, and fundamentally the government need to streamline our educational systems so that we can have 16-25 year olds who are ready to go into innovation and venture into business. India is reaping from the decisions their government made in 1948 by setting up Business and Technology institutions in every major city. The government is making efforts through building the techno-parks etc techno-park is good but is it a real estate investment or an investment to spur ICT growth? As a-country we need to assess our place in the global IT value chain, we need to find out what we are good at and can do better than everyone else. China, Malaysia and Taiwan used their population to offer cheap labour, India used excess bandwidth to set-up call centers, America is good at marketing etc Having said that I think that the debates are healthy because it shows people are genuinely worried and are ready to take action. On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 2:56 PM, Crystal Watley Kigoni < crystal@voicesofafrica.org> wrote:
The heart of any network is how well it serves its intended purpose. In the case of an e-health system for Kenya the point is to increase the well being of the Kenya population by providing the services they need. In some cases, this could be hand washing campaigns to reduce typhoid, but at this time the data has not been collected due to the lack of ICT in the field at the village level. Therefore many of our best development efforts are hit and miss rather than data based.
BUT in order for anything to work it MUST meet the needs of the people themselves and be easily understood which will require local content generation on a more real level than the Flintstone in Kikuyu. Interfaces should be easy to use and for the wanachini to understand.
Also we need to make sure that we are investing in the skills of the hospital personnel. I cannot emphasize this enough because ultimately the end delivery and the make or break point in the system is right there. No matter how good the tech is, nothing will change unless the people do. The best tech does nothing in the hands of someone who doesn't use it. Just look at how many schools were given computers which are now collecting dust in storerooms because of the lack of capacity building.
This needs to be considered on an ecosystem level from the top of the government to the most remote corners of the country on a individual level. I believe many of us are holding a piece, but we have not put them together to form the puzzle yet.
On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 2:47 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
@Erick, imagine that you as the system programmer are the parent of a new born and that you are not aware of any diseases/infections at child birth or early stages that can cost the life of your child. How would you then want the system to be that could possibly save the life of your child? The system designed can have the ability to speed up a response or diagnosis. Since those involved in the developer project have been exposed to the medical environment, they all should be able to take up the info from the meds and further enchance the system. The connection between the reality and what can be achieved, is the heart of innovation.
On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 2:08 PM, Erick Njenga <eriknjenga@gmail.com>wrote:
@Aki, could you expound more on what exactly you mean by innovation? I'm not privy to how far the systems will go but will let you know of any progress. cheers.
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-- Crystal "Naliaka" Watley Kigoni Executive Director Voices of Africa for Sustainable Development crystal@voicesofafrica.org http://www.voicesofafrica.org/
Twitter: VOA4SD Skype: crystal.naliaka Facebook group: Voices of Africa<http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_103722386364001&ap=1#%21/group.php?gid=139035902779599> Facebook cause: Voices of Africa<http://www.causes.com/causes/102634-voices-of-africa-for-sustainable-development?recruiter_id=16731206> YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/CrystalKigoni LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=20585778&trk=tab_pro>
"You must be the change you wish to see" - Gandhi
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
one should not underscore the complexity of implementing organization wide systems. ERP implementation alone is a nightmare when you have client that constitutes of people from multiple discipline, temperament and outlook towards life. Now take that, multiply by one million. that is the complexity of implementing such a system. Best approach? stepwise refinement of a one table database. the patients encounters table. => FYI I wouldnt recommend re-inventing the wheel. Go Open source and make contribute back to the OS world. My 2 Cnts. On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 9:28 PM, Joseph McDonald <mcdonaldoj@gmail.com>wrote:
How can someone in Europe or any other part of the world design an e-health system for Kenya from St.Elsewhere? Am saying this because to develop a good system you need to understand where we are and where we want to go.
Hence a good e-health system is not only about information and technology, its about understanding the processes, objectives and values, staffing and skills, management structures etc All these aspects can only be understood better by local people.
You need collaboration of all players in the health sector to build a good system i.e the health professionals (health professional identification systems), the views of the public because they are the patients, you need health providers both private and public including insurance companies; lastly you need a good legislative framework (data privacy and protection).
So I don’t believe some one can purport to be designing an e-health system for Kenya from some University in Norway, if indeed there is such a system it is then designed to fail or it should be investigated by KACC because it is a way to defraud the country some money, also you cannot just pull a system (OTS) from another country and use it in Kenya; you have to do some reality check because Kenya is not India or Norway or SA.
Do we honestly think that Kenya's health administrative issues can be solved by a system? I highly doubt. Why am I saying this? e.g. KEMSA have a locally modified ERP system but still they have expired drugs in their stores, while there are some district hospitals that need the same drugs.
The local IT community need to work more closely and with collaboration, look at problems and lobby the government, because technology is not about programming and coding only or having web this and that or mobile this and that. It is addressing a national or global problem by enriching life to make it more efficient. Having said that IT people cannot work in isolation they need to work with Business Planners, Business Model Specialist, Product Managers and Marketers specialist,Investors,Value Chain Specialist, Lawyers etc.so ihub should also allow other non-IT people into the hub.
I know there has been lots of debate on Investors and funding, if the funding from Bretton Woods and the government is not forthcoming how about people who have made their careers and riches through IT, if people who have made all their careers and riches in IT can not support others then who will? I know of many IT companies owned by people in this list who make between 24-75 million USD a year.e.g Craft Silicon has made 10 billion in the last 10 years, MJ, Seven Seas, East Africa Capital Partners etc have the resource and clout to start venture capital or act as angel investors. As insiders if they made a deliberate effort to support other young and upcoming innovators we can head somewhere. Silicon Valley was largely built by networks of people and companies whose interlocking relationships help to spawn new start-ups e.g. After selling Paypal for 1.5 billion USD to eBay, its founders and alumni have helped both financially and intellectually to start up numerous internet start-ups e.g. Yelp, Youtube, LinkedIn, Slide, Room9Entertainment, Spacex among others. So much that in October 17 2006 NY times run a story called It Pays to have Pals at Paypal.
The government also has a very important role; they can create an enabling environment especially to protect the ideas through effective and efficient copy right laws and patenting system, creating subsidies for research etc the government can also give more business to local IT companies, and fundamentally the government need to streamline our educational systems so that we can have 16-25 year olds who are ready to go into innovation and venture into business. India is reaping from the decisions their government made in 1948 by setting up Business and Technology institutions in every major city. The government is making efforts through building the techno-parks etc techno-park is good but is it a real estate investment or an investment to spur ICT growth? As a-country we need to assess our place in the global IT value chain, we need to find out what we are good at and can do better than everyone else. China, Malaysia and Taiwan used their population to offer cheap labour, India used excess bandwidth to set-up call centers, America is good at marketing etc
Having said that I think that the debates are healthy because it shows people are genuinely worried and are ready to take action.
On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 2:56 PM, Crystal Watley Kigoni < crystal@voicesofafrica.org> wrote:
The heart of any network is how well it serves its intended purpose. In the case of an e-health system for Kenya the point is to increase the well being of the Kenya population by providing the services they need. In some cases, this could be hand washing campaigns to reduce typhoid, but at this time the data has not been collected due to the lack of ICT in the field at the village level. Therefore many of our best development efforts are hit and miss rather than data based.
BUT in order for anything to work it MUST meet the needs of the people themselves and be easily understood which will require local content generation on a more real level than the Flintstone in Kikuyu. Interfaces should be easy to use and for the wanachini to understand.
Also we need to make sure that we are investing in the skills of the hospital personnel. I cannot emphasize this enough because ultimately the end delivery and the make or break point in the system is right there. No matter how good the tech is, nothing will change unless the people do. The best tech does nothing in the hands of someone who doesn't use it. Just look at how many schools were given computers which are now collecting dust in storerooms because of the lack of capacity building.
This needs to be considered on an ecosystem level from the top of the government to the most remote corners of the country on a individual level. I believe many of us are holding a piece, but we have not put them together to form the puzzle yet.
On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 2:47 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
@Erick, imagine that you as the system programmer are the parent of a new born and that you are not aware of any diseases/infections at child birth or early stages that can cost the life of your child. How would you then want the system to be that could possibly save the life of your child? The system designed can have the ability to speed up a response or diagnosis. Since those involved in the developer project have been exposed to the medical environment, they all should be able to take up the info from the meds and further enchance the system. The connection between the reality and what can be achieved, is the heart of innovation.
On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 2:08 PM, Erick Njenga <eriknjenga@gmail.com>wrote:
@Aki, could you expound more on what exactly you mean by innovation? I'm not privy to how far the systems will go but will let you know of any progress. cheers.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Crystal "Naliaka" Watley Kigoni Executive Director Voices of Africa for Sustainable Development crystal@voicesofafrica.org http://www.voicesofafrica.org/
Twitter: VOA4SD Skype: crystal.naliaka Facebook group: Voices of Africa<http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_103722386364001&ap=1#%21/group.php?gid=139035902779599> Facebook cause: Voices of Africa<http://www.causes.com/causes/102634-voices-of-africa-for-sustainable-development?recruiter_id=16731206> YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/CrystalKigoni LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=20585778&trk=tab_pro>
"You must be the change you wish to see" - Gandhi
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- *“The twentieth century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: the growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy”* ~ Alex Carey ~ Tel No: 0x2af23696
@Crystal, @MacDonald @Areba, thanks for your inputs. The main problem I see, and the core of my thoughts, is that the Kenyan Dream is built on Entreprenuership through vendorships and brokerages and skills within these. Unfortunately, this is now a culture of its own and is too deeply rooted, whether in Govt or Private sectors. Its no different from those who sell Solaris High End Servers to those who use e.g. Joomla or some Open Source product ( edited versions ) to cater for the demands in the market. Nothing wrong with this, its purely a business culture that is even reflected in the Livestock industry. Not sure how many saw the show yesterday, but I watched briefly on TV and was totally impressed with the Cows that literally looked like the size of rhinos! These animals could barely walk straight. There is genetics involved somewhere, either in the diet or in hormone injections but for those livestock breeders, how many can say they played a part in the genetics? A big ZERO, and am certain of this because they only want the end result = A Big Cow = Good sales. FINITO! And it works out very well, everyone is happy and the govt can sing the song of successful entreprenuers. In the budget read this week, I noticed that such words repeatedly popped up almost every few minutes, a marketeers dream. So in such an economic environment, there is very little room or space for those who choose to think or do things a bit differently, and this might explain why @Crystal has come up blank each time. What I know with 100% certainty is the saying "the wrong place at the wrong time" is very true, so are such economies really worth the hastle and time? I don't think so. Me thots. :-)
participants (9)
-
[ Brainiac ] -
aki -
Crystal Watley Kigoni -
Dennis Kioko -
Erick Njenga -
Joseph McDonald -
Peter Karunyu -
Peter Osotsi -
Phares Kariuki