<OT> Open Source Coca-Cola? some humor....
I saw the image of the safe that held the Coke formula, business daily : page 8. Its a massive safe and an amazing piece of engineering, I just got thinking as to why Coke has never been reverse engineered by the most brilliant minds out there. I can imagine a thread one day on some lists: Download the original formula and create you Open Source Coke! It looks and tastes the ....hmmmm..well...almost close to the real thing. :-)))) Have a nice day.
But we have competing Cola formulas, with Pepsi upstaging , wait, this is not IT
Have some december humor @Dennis. Did you see the vault image? Totally inspiration for propreitary...and it works. Never liked other drinks other than coke. The original innovator of the soft drink industry. Any employee or person working at Coca-Cola, if they had any reverse engineering inspirations or dreams, would surely have found it impossible to tamper with the safe... :-)))) On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 1:29 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
But we have competing Cola formulas, with Pepsi upstaging , wait, this is not IT
Just as I was looking at the vault image, I was distracted by the news that the three Google execs own 8 jets between them, which was not that surprising, until I learned that one of the jets was actually a fighter jet. Since then, I have been trying to figure out what exactly they do with a fighter jet, and how the US government is quite comfortable with civilians owning such sophisticated military equipment . I am lso looking into the possibility of them owning a drone ...
Well, not bad humor at all Aki. But I also hear that Coke is real poison to your body. But then they are the best when it comes to marketing. Which reminds me that its not the best product that wins, but the one thats marketed the best. Thats very true even in the Software industry! Just look around you. On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 1:44 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
Just as I was looking at the vault image, I was distracted by the news that the three Google execs own 8 jets between them, which was not that surprising, until I learned that one of the jets was actually a fighter jet. Since then, I have been trying to figure out what exactly they do with a fighter jet, and how the US government is quite comfortable with civilians owning such sophisticated military equipment . I am lso looking into the possibility of them owning a drone ...
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Hello @Evans. :-) Unfortunately you and me are at the opposite of the camps. Am a sword for propreitary ( self pro-claimed, no official backing, total believer that propreitary is the only solution ) and you are on the other side. :-)) Consider this, that image of the vault would probably be at every brewery and winery. I'd love to know how KBL or others protect their recipes while wine is even more complicated e.g maturity time. How does KBL rotate its core staff so no one single person knows the exact formula? Very interesting... I can aslo see those who code open source drinking, eating and buying propreitary goods all the time. Even worse would be open source going out to enjoy a good day of coding over a bottle of beer or wine they know is as propreitary as the glass they drink in. In the followup to the posting to @Dennis, I wonder how Open Source is dealing with North Korea, Iran and others the west consider not good. Is Open Source defeating its core values of free-code to certain countries? I wonder, and some interest here too to research. Some thots. Rgds. On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 1:54 PM, Evans Ikua <ikua.evans@gmail.com> wrote:
Well, not bad humor at all Aki. But I also hear that Coke is real poison to your body. But then they are the best when it comes to marketing. Which reminds me that its not the best product that wins, but the one thats marketed the best. Thats very true even in the Software industry! Just look around you.
Lol Aki do you do this for lulz? Actually Ive always wanted to use that word somewhere, lulz. In this world, no one is preventing anyone from making a cocacola of their own. No one is preventing anyone from making their own beer, it happens alll the time. Even those guy in ocha drink more potent stuff than what EABL can ever dream of making. Now imagine if KBL patented beer. So that no one else can can make beer without getting a license from them. Or Cocacola patent their stuff so that you have to get rights from them to make soda. Or toyota patent a vehicle so that no one can make a vehicle with 4 wheels, an engine and a 4 man cabin. That is what proprietary brings to us. You say opensource guys buy proprietary all the time, I say proprietary software puts 'proprietary' in product. No other product in history has the kind of business model as proprietary software. On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 3:15 PM, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello @Evans. :-) Unfortunately you and me are at the opposite of the camps. Am a sword for propreitary ( self pro-claimed, no official backing, total believer that propreitary is the only solution ) and you are on the other side. :-))
Consider this, that image of the vault would probably be at every brewery and winery. I'd love to know how KBL or others protect their recipes while wine is even more complicated e.g maturity time. How does KBL rotate its core staff so no one single person knows the exact formula? Very interesting... I can aslo see those who code open source drinking, eating and buying propreitary goods all the time. Even worse would be open source going out to enjoy a good day of coding over a bottle of beer or wine they know is as propreitary as the glass they drink in.
In the followup to the posting to @Dennis, I wonder how Open Source is dealing with North Korea, Iran and others the west consider not good. Is Open Source defeating its core values of free-code to certain countries? I wonder, and some interest here too to research.
Some thots.
Rgds.
On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 1:54 PM, Evans Ikua <ikua.evans@gmail.com> wrote:
Well, not bad humor at all Aki. But I also hear that Coke is real poison to your body. But then they are the best when it comes to marketing. Which reminds me that its not the best product that wins, but the one thats marketed the best. Thats very true even in the Software industry! Just look around you.
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-- www.golavish.com - The travel and leisure www.raccuddasys.com - code Development issues
Hahaha! the more potent stuff than EABL! :-))) @Frankline, proprietary is like the secret of that potent stuff that separates the alcohol creators from others. I read somewhere even shoes go into the recipe. Wah! I'd say that you have a good point but hiyo maneno of reverse engineering is too much. Propreitary makes it better while Open tries very hard to copy it. Will add more later when I stop laughing and visualizing on how the potent stuff by each "vendor" gets more deadlier with permanent side effects! "Self-proclaimed & no official backing coding street noisemaker : Pastor Propreitary--Me!"
Open Changaa? The Open Source World is the *Original Sin*. The inventor of reverse engineering to be called open platforms. Thou shall not covet thy neighbours OS and software, thou shall not covet thy neighbours successes, thou shall not covet thy neighbors successful trade practises. The world is doomed with the original sin. :-) -- "Self-proclaimed & no official backing coding street noisemaker : Pastor Propreitary--Me!"
China's $25billion reverse engineering specialist? http://www.techautos.com/2010/02/26/chinas-byd-25-billion-reverse-engineerin...
“Our next action will be to reverse-engineer the aircraft,” Parviz Sorouri, head of Iran’s parliamentary national security committee said..... http://blogs.ottawacitizen.com/2011/12/14/can-iran-reverse-engineer-the-rq-1... -- "Self-proclaimed & no official backing coding street noisemaker : Pastor Propreitary--Me!"
China used downed US F-117 Nighthawk to reverse engineer its first stealth jet : http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2011-01-24/news/28433799_1_stea... -- "Self-proclaimed & no official backing coding street noisemaker : Pastor Propreitary--Me!"
I'm sorry to inform you that reverse engineering happens all the time, and on all fronts. Not just open source. Medical, engineering, IT, agriculture. Many of te things we know now such as chemistry and biology were precisely due to reverse engineering. Taking things apart to see how thy work is fair game. In many countries, such as Russia it is not actually illegal On Thursday, December 15, 2011, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
China used downed US F-117 Nighthawk to reverse engineer its first stealth jet : http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2011-01-24/news/28433799_1_stea...
--
"Self-proclaimed & no official backing coding street noisemaker : Pastor Propreitary--Me!"
Hello @Rad reverse engineering is, in my opinion, defeats any innovation and is legalized piracy whether of product, process or ideas. Thus the word innovation should be permanently removed unless it finds a fitting scenario, which really belongs to propreitary. Taking things apart is one thing, going commercial with such is another. Indeed, the world is doomed to never produce anything more radically innovative and even if it does, all the gains will be reversed. Right, lets put the reverse engineers to test then. They alway whine about the financial gains of pharmaceutical sectors, what have they done to look for cures of terminal diseases? Nothing, they just trying very hard to find out how they can make viagra open with similar products that could have more deadly events like heart attacks etc. That vault image that started this thread off is so iconic, brings out the reality of what really is going on. Protect, Protect, Protect. I hope one day I shall become a very good programmer, I'll then put in code that will be very destructive to a computer or a system if it is reverse-engineered. Take that "you" loosers! :-) Rgds. "Self-proclaimed & no official backing coding street noisemaker : Pastor Propreitary--Me!"
Aki, On of the reasons I'm an open-source lover (while using windows XP to type this ;) is that it's good for development. By knowing what happens under the hood, we can easily(?) conjure up a copy - which I think is innovation. In fact, innovation grows by imitating (copying). The east asian countries - beginning with Japan, started by making poor & cheap imitations of western products. Of course, for them to sell even at par, lacking brand recognition, they had to improve quality and differentiate even more... leading to even more innovation, which spilled off to the manufacturing processes (look up Toyota System) But, heck, if Mercedes only makes stuff that can easily be copied AND sold by Kenya Numerical Machine complex, then they have no right selling it at their premium prices. They should always be forced to innovate. (I'm treading on dangerous ground here) ________________________________ From: aki <aki275@gmail.com> To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2011 10:15 AM Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] <OT> Open Source Coca-Cola? some humor.... Hello @Rad reverse engineering is, in my opinion, defeats any innovation and is legalized piracy whether of product, process or ideas. Thus the word innovation should be permanently removed unless it finds a fitting scenario, which really belongs to propreitary. Taking things apart is one thing, going commercial with such is another. Indeed, the world is doomed to never produce anything more radically innovative and even if it does, all the gains will be reversed. Right, lets put the reverse engineers to test then. They alway whine about the financial gains of pharmaceutical sectors, what have they done to look for cures of terminal diseases? Nothing, they just trying very hard to find out how they can make viagra open with similar products that could have more deadly events like heart attacks etc. That vault image that started this thread off is so iconic, brings out the reality of what really is going on. Protect, Protect, Protect. I hope one day I shall become a very good programmer, I'll then put in code that will be very destructive to a computer or a system if it is reverse-engineered. Take that "you" loosers! :-) Rgds. "Self-proclaimed & no official backing coding street noisemaker : Pastor Propreitary--Me!" _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 10:48 AM, Bernard Owuor <b_owuor@yahoo.com> wrote:
Aki, On of the reasons I'm an open-source lover (while using windows XP to type this ;) is that it's good for development.
By knowing what happens under the hood, we can easily(?) conjure up a copy - which I think is innovation. In fact, innovation grows by imitating (copying).
The east asian countries - beginning with Japan, started by making poor & cheap imitations of western products. Of course, for them to sell even at par, lacking brand recognition, they had to improve quality and differentiate even more... leading to even more innovation, which spilled off to the manufacturing processes (look up Toyota System)
But, heck, if Mercedes only makes stuff that can easily be copied AND sold by Kenya Numerical Machine complex, then they have no right selling it at their premium prices. They should always be forced to innovate. (I'm treading on dangerous ground here)
--
Hello @Bernard, the east asian countries are partly the problem and their economic successes should not be used a a measure. The indians tried reverse engineering cheaper drugs which never worked properly, take the example of Tata and the Suzuki arrangement. Infact, they were better off innovating on the old fiat based systems than create rubbish like e.g the Mahendra 4X4 which was a poor clone of the WW2 jeep( corrections welcome ). The original landcrusier was also based on the jeep but went a different direction totally with innovative features that the janapese culture did with its commitments. The biggest issue I see is a negative trend that will continue for many years. One trying to clone the other. The best systems in the world are propreitary, nothing else will ever come close to this. There's no substitue for the original thing. :-) "Self-proclaimed & no official backing coding street noisemaker : Pastor Propreitary--Me!"
@aki are you saying we should not build tar macadam (tarmac) roads because they were invented by the Romans? or we should pay royalties to Edison's family for switching on our light bulbs? Knowledge is a communal resource which is why I believe patents have an expiry date. This is not a response post trying to show you how wrong you are and how right I am but an expression that we all have our opinions. This is like arguing which is the best color ever. An impossible to win discussion. On 12/15/11, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 10:48 AM, Bernard Owuor <b_owuor@yahoo.com> wrote:
Aki, On of the reasons I'm an open-source lover (while using windows XP to type this ;) is that it's good for development.
By knowing what happens under the hood, we can easily(?) conjure up a copy - which I think is innovation. In fact, innovation grows by imitating (copying).
The east asian countries - beginning with Japan, started by making poor & cheap imitations of western products. Of course, for them to sell even at par, lacking brand recognition, they had to improve quality and differentiate even more... leading to even more innovation, which spilled off to the manufacturing processes (look up Toyota System)
But, heck, if Mercedes only makes stuff that can easily be copied AND sold by Kenya Numerical Machine complex, then they have no right selling it at their premium prices. They should always be forced to innovate. (I'm treading on dangerous ground here)
--
Hello @Bernard, the east asian countries are partly the problem and their economic successes should not be used a a measure. The indians tried reverse engineering cheaper drugs which never worked properly, take the example of Tata and the Suzuki arrangement. Infact, they were better off innovating on the old fiat based systems than create rubbish like e.g the Mahendra 4X4 which was a poor clone of the WW2 jeep( corrections welcome ). The original landcrusier was also based on the jeep but went a different direction totally with innovative features that the janapese culture did with its commitments.
The biggest issue I see is a negative trend that will continue for many years. One trying to clone the other. The best systems in the world are propreitary, nothing else will ever come close to this. There's no substitue for the original thing. :-)
"Self-proclaimed & no official backing coding street noisemaker : Pastor Propreitary--Me!"
-- Regards, Mark Mwangi http://mwangy.wordpress.com
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 10:37 PM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
@aki are you saying we should not build tar macadam (tarmac) roads because they were invented by the Romans? or we should pay royalties to Edison's family for switching on our light bulbs?
Knowledge is a communal resource which is why I believe patents have an expiry date. This is not a response post trying to show you how wrong you are and how right I am but an expression that we all have our opinions.
This is like arguing which is the best color ever. An impossible to win discussion.
@Mark, I agree with you that this is an almost impossible discussion to win, but I'll also write that if we are planning to replicate Asian economies whose basis of success was partly reverse engineering, then we are totally screwed and will never come up. How does one reverse engineer an already reverse-engineered process, idea or concept. That's like micro reverse engineering, with zero results. If the romans build roads and everyone else followed, then are we saying that the tarmac is the end of it? We've seen our Nairobi roads, they have gaping potholes due to many reasons. I can imagine during the Roman Empire, Julius Caesar asking for the head on a plate of the pathetic governor who is assigned to maintain the roads just because Casear's drive ended up in a ditch due to some really poor work done. Because the romans thought hard about how to win wars and create empires, they came up with significant changes. The classic example is Shaka Zulu and the short spear whose action defeated the traditional spear, this was key in winning battles. Ofcourse, against a machine gun or cannon, the spear is useless and this is how the west won their wars. Taking the chinese invention of gunpowder and converting it to do damage on the battlefield. Am sure you know your history and can add value to this. The thing is, propreitary drives everything. How can we be a part of this process and where are we lacking in our thinking knowing that there is an economic war upon us that we cannot win until we start fighting back on the same terms. We need to get propreitary too and stop wasting time on code handouts under different names. What are the solutions here? I have no idea and can only admire the image of the safe vault as a strong reminder and the humor that goes with it. Something needs to be done but what? Do you now see why I dislike free-code, one of its results is our capacity to think is highly reduced because we can only think of the top layers i.e its application and how to turn it into an income earner. Because our economies are based on surviveability, this is the breeding ground for shortcuts. What about the core foundation? Some thots. Rgds. :-) -- "Self-proclaimed & no official backing coding street noisemaker : Pastor Propreitary--Me!"
I'm sorry to inform you that reverse engineering happens all the time, and on all fronts. Not just open source. Medical, engineering, IT, agriculture. Many of te things we know now such as chemistry and biology were precisely due to In many countries, such as Russia it is not actually illegal On Thursday, December 15, 2011, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
China used downed US F-117 Nighthawk to reverse engineer its first stealth jet : http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2011-01-24/news/28433799_1_stea...
--
"Self-proclaimed & no official backing coding street noisemaker : Pastor Propreitary--Me!"
The first thing that's going to happen is that mostly likely the US govt will get them to sign documents etc that the jet cannot be used in another country where there are reverse engineers who can clone technology. However, I don't know why it would be called reverse engineering in another nation while its called open source in the origin country. I can just imagine how AT&T and the core Unix group felt when their work was reversed and released to nations that proprietary cannot sell to. For example, is the free nature of Unix-Clones being used a internet filtering devices in countries looking for better democratic values since proprietary vendors are forbidden to trade with such? Some thots :-) On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 1:44 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
Just as I was looking at the vault image, I was distracted by the news that the three Google execs own 8 jets between them, which was not that surprising, until I learned that one of the jets was actually a fighter jet. Since then, I have been trying to figure out what exactly they do with a fighter jet, and how the US government is quite comfortable with civilians owning such sophisticated military equipment . I am lso looking into the possibility of them owning a drone ...
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participants (7)
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aki -
Bernard Owuor -
Dennis Kioko -
Evans Ikua -
Frankline Chitwa -
Mark Mwangi -
Rad!