A friend was asking whether there is a "Kenya Association of Computer Programmers" or something similar. Or whether they operate like witchdoctors :-)
LOL.....ati witchdoctors!! :-D But if there is such an establishment (or anything similar), al be very willing to join... What of Computer Society of Kenya?? Does it cater for such a domain of expertise? -- Regards, Greg -------- Life is not a rehearsal, you only live once! On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 11:52 AM, Peter Muchemi <pmuchemi@gmail.com> wrote:
A friend was asking whether there is a "Kenya Association of Computer Programmers" or something similar.
Or whether they operate like witchdoctors :-)
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Problem so far, IMHO, is that a few such establishments that exist have been used either for career advancement or as money minting operations by a few people rather than to tackle real issues or policy. So they tend to be shunned by the serious ones in the industry who have bigger problems.
I think we need something like KASNEB or LSK, serious money minting, career advancement platform as well as geared towards the welfare of its graduates/members. But I doubt the geekdom want to be herded like goats in Kitengela. Peter On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 12:58 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
Problem so far, IMHO, is that a few such establishments that exist have been used either for career advancement or as money minting operations by a few people rather than to tackle real issues or policy. So they tend to be shunned by the serious ones in the industry who have bigger problems. _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list
Witchdoctors must have an association seeing that their craft is illegal but they even service MPs On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 2:34 PM, Peter Osotsi <peter.osotsi@gmail.com>wrote:
I think we need something like KASNEB or LSK, serious money minting, career advancement platform as well as geared towards the welfare of its graduates/members. But I doubt the geekdom want to be herded like goats in Kitengela.
Peter
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 12:58 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
Problem so far, IMHO, is that a few such establishments that exist have been used either for career advancement or as money minting operations by a few people rather than to tackle real issues or policy. So they tend to be shunned by the serious ones in the industry who have bigger problems. _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list
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-- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.
Skunks, Instead of thinking of it in terms of " career advancement or as money minting operations by a few people" we could establish such an association and make it a source of giving members approval/recommendations for coding jobs. This will set a standard in the industry so that firms and industry can hire competent people and enable coders to "live-on-code". Think of it in terms of LSK. A lawyer will not practice if they are not a member of LSK, which sort of regulates (but the key word here is to set standards for Coders) so that the profession is recognized and respectable accross. I think its a good idea!! More suggestions/+ve constructive criticisms are welcome! -- Regards, Greg -------- Life is not a rehearsal, you only live once! On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 2:41 PM, Joram Mwinamo <joram.mwinamo@gmail.com>wrote:
Witchdoctors must have an association seeing that their craft is illegal but they even service MPs
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 2:34 PM, Peter Osotsi <peter.osotsi@gmail.com>wrote:
I think we need something like KASNEB or LSK, serious money minting, career advancement platform as well as geared towards the welfare of its graduates/members. But I doubt the geekdom want to be herded like goats in Kitengela.
Peter
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 12:58 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
Problem so far, IMHO, is that a few such establishments that exist have been used either for career advancement or as money minting operations by a few people rather than to tackle real issues or policy. So they tend to be shunned by the serious ones in the industry who have bigger problems. _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list
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-- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.
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@Greg, I have often thought in the same lines. A programmer's association whose goals is to set software development standards. If done right we could get global recognition for development of high quality software engineers and let the world know Kenya can produce more than just fast runners. D. On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Gregory Okoth <gregory.okoth@gmail.com>wrote:
Skunks, Instead of thinking of it in terms of " career advancement or as money minting operations by a few people" we could establish such an association and make it a source of giving members approval/recommendations for coding jobs. This will set a standard in the industry so that firms and industry can hire competent people and enable coders to "live-on-code".
Think of it in terms of LSK. A lawyer will not practice if they are not a member of LSK, which sort of regulates (but the key word here is to set standards for Coders) so that the profession is recognized and respectable accross. I think its a good idea!! More suggestions/+ve constructive criticisms are welcome!
-- Regards, Greg -------- Life is not a rehearsal, you only live once!
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 2:41 PM, Joram Mwinamo <joram.mwinamo@gmail.com>wrote:
Witchdoctors must have an association seeing that their craft is illegal but they even service MPs
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 2:34 PM, Peter Osotsi <peter.osotsi@gmail.com>wrote:
I think we need something like KASNEB or LSK, serious money minting, career advancement platform as well as geared towards the welfare of its graduates/members. But I doubt the geekdom want to be herded like goats in Kitengela.
Peter
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 12:58 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
Problem so far, IMHO, is that a few such establishments that exist have been used either for career advancement or as money minting operations by a few people rather than to tackle real issues or policy. So they tend to be shunned by the serious ones in the industry who have bigger problems. _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list
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-- Sent from my Voice Recognition Watch© -------------------------------------------------------------------- Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
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I do not think that we need an association to develop Standards. Several standards in the computing industry have been developed openly. We can do that right here in skunkworks. Discuss and agree that Software must meet some certain conditions to be standard-compliant
Dennis, is it the software that needs to meet standards or is it the programmers who need to be of a certain quality....i think we should be talking about the programmer... On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 4:57 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
I do not think that we need an association to develop Standards. Several standards in the computing industry have been developed openly. We can do that right here in skunkworks. Discuss and agree that Software must meet some certain conditions to be standard-compliant _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
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Having the programmer meet certain criteria is important for instance oDesk [odesk.com], they have member accounts and members have to do tests in the languages they code in, grades are awarded just like in ordinary exams. Before a programmer is hired the client has the opportunity of looking at the programmers grades bearing in mind that the client can as well specify the language to be used in the project as well as minimum grades the programmer should meet. Such a system could be used. On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 5:48 PM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com> wrote:
Dennis, is it the software that needs to meet standards or is it the programmers who need to be of a certain quality....i think we should be talking about the programmer...
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 4:57 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
I do not think that we need an association to develop Standards. Several standards in the computing industry have been developed openly. We can do that right here in skunkworks. Discuss and agree that Software must meet some certain conditions to be standard-compliant _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
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@Bernard, Well said...its the programmer's welfare that we envisage from such an association(s). Not the software standards or anything to do with standardization. If I may revisit my example, LSK doesn't try to set new standards of the Law, but the practice itself and its recognition; and that it approves and stands for good lawyers in that profession according to a set of rules for its members. In the end, this has the overall effect to both the service providers (be it lawyers or coder) and the service recipients (be it software end users or defendants in courts) for good quality service and recognition by industry as a respectable occupation! End result, a firm wont pay a coder peanuts just becuase they think a coder's job is not "that important" This is the reality in Kenya, not US or UK or even India (the land of outsourcing)! I think am done with explaining!! -- Regards, Greg -------- Life is not a rehearsal, you only live once! On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 5:48 PM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com> wrote:
Dennis, is it the software that needs to meet standards or is it the programmers who need to be of a certain quality....i think we should be talking about the programmer...
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 4:57 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
I do not think that we need an association to develop Standards. Several standards in the computing industry have been developed openly. We can do that right here in skunkworks. Discuss and agree that Software must meet some certain conditions to be standard-compliant _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
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What you need is an organization to protect your customers against quacks and also help startups avoid making mistakes many have made. That way you can prevent de-valuation of ICT services by regulating standards and also preventing under-cutting. By so doing people will benefit more from ICT. Not everyone who can dispense medicine is a doctor.. We need standards and the like. My 2C's. On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 6:25 PM, Gregory Okoth <gregory.okoth@gmail.com>wrote:
@Bernard, Well said...its the programmer's welfare that we envisage from such an association(s). Not the software standards or anything to do with standardization. If I may revisit my example, LSK doesn't try to set new standards of the Law, but the practice itself and its recognition; and that it approves and stands for good lawyers in that profession according to a set of rules for its members.
In the end, this has the overall effect to both the service providers (be it lawyers or coder) and the service recipients (be it software end users or defendants in courts) for good quality service and recognition by industry as a respectable occupation! End result, a firm wont pay a coder peanuts just becuase they think a coder's job is not "that important" This is the reality in Kenya, not US or UK or even India (the land of outsourcing)!
I think am done with explaining!!
-- Regards, Greg -------- Life is not a rehearsal, you only live once!
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 5:48 PM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com> wrote:
Dennis, is it the software that needs to meet standards or is it the programmers who need to be of a certain quality....i think we should be talking about the programmer...
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 4:57 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
I do not think that we need an association to develop Standards. Several standards in the computing industry have been developed openly. We can do that right here in skunkworks. Discuss and agree that Software must meet some certain conditions to be standard-compliant _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
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True.. We need such, since we toking bou it lets set it up... Count me in. Regards Luke On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 10:08 AM, Boniface <mboteb@gmail.com> wrote:
What you need is an organization to protect your customers against quacks and also help startups avoid making mistakes many have made. That way you can prevent de-valuation of ICT services by regulating standards and also preventing under-cutting. By so doing people will benefit more from ICT. Not everyone who can dispense medicine is a doctor.. We need standards and the like.
My 2C's.
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 6:25 PM, Gregory Okoth <gregory.okoth@gmail.com>wrote:
@Bernard, Well said...its the programmer's welfare that we envisage from such an association(s). Not the software standards or anything to do with standardization. If I may revisit my example, LSK doesn't try to set new standards of the Law, but the practice itself and its recognition; and that it approves and stands for good lawyers in that profession according to a set of rules for its members.
In the end, this has the overall effect to both the service providers (be it lawyers or coder) and the service recipients (be it software end users or defendants in courts) for good quality service and recognition by industry as a respectable occupation! End result, a firm wont pay a coder peanuts just becuase they think a coder's job is not "that important" This is the reality in Kenya, not US or UK or even India (the land of outsourcing)!
I think am done with explaining!!
-- Regards, Greg -------- Life is not a rehearsal, you only live once!
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 5:48 PM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com>wrote:
Dennis, is it the software that needs to meet standards or is it the programmers who need to be of a certain quality....i think we should be talking about the programmer...
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 4:57 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
I do not think that we need an association to develop Standards. Several standards in the computing industry have been developed openly. We can do that right here in skunkworks. Discuss and agree that Software must meet some certain conditions to be standard-compliant _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
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I raised this issue on this mailing list and everyone wanted to kill me saying that we should join the Computer society of Kenya or any other reg. organisation. I am glad a few of us now share the same sentiments as I do. Also it helps us as developers to protect ourselves from unscrupulous businessmen and companies that want to take advantage of our hard earned skills and pay nothing for them. regards Oliver On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 11:08 AM, Luke Kuvheya <tendayi.kuvheya@gmail.com>wrote:
True.. We need such, since we toking bou it lets set it up... Count me in.
Regards Luke
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 10:08 AM, Boniface <mboteb@gmail.com> wrote:
What you need is an organization to protect your customers against quacks and also help startups avoid making mistakes many have made. That way you can prevent de-valuation of ICT services by regulating standards and also preventing under-cutting. By so doing people will benefit more from ICT. Not everyone who can dispense medicine is a doctor.. We need standards and the like.
My 2C's.
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 6:25 PM, Gregory Okoth <gregory.okoth@gmail.com>wrote:
@Bernard, Well said...its the programmer's welfare that we envisage from such an association(s). Not the software standards or anything to do with standardization. If I may revisit my example, LSK doesn't try to set new standards of the Law, but the practice itself and its recognition; and that it approves and stands for good lawyers in that profession according to a set of rules for its members.
In the end, this has the overall effect to both the service providers (be it lawyers or coder) and the service recipients (be it software end users or defendants in courts) for good quality service and recognition by industry as a respectable occupation! End result, a firm wont pay a coder peanuts just becuase they think a coder's job is not "that important" This is the reality in Kenya, not US or UK or even India (the land of outsourcing)!
I think am done with explaining!!
-- Regards, Greg -------- Life is not a rehearsal, you only live once!
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 5:48 PM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com>wrote:
Dennis, is it the software that needs to meet standards or is it the programmers who need to be of a certain quality....i think we should be talking about the programmer...
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 4:57 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
I do not think that we need an association to develop Standards. Several standards in the computing industry have been developed openly. We can do that right here in skunkworks. Discuss and agree that Software must meet some certain conditions to be standard-compliant _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
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In this case, Should we then create a list of priorities and how we should approach the whole issue. Should we start as an informal/semi-formal set up and adopt certain priorities and then move up taking more priorities and getting into a formal setting. In this case, what issues are we looking at tackling?
@Kioko, Thats a process that will take for ever.....everyone will come up with all manner of ideas and priorities! Lets just get started and done with already....... :-) On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
In this case, Should we then create a list of priorities and how we should approach the whole issue. Should we start as an informal/semi-formal set up and adopt certain priorities and then move up taking more priorities and getting into a formal setting.
In this case, what issues are we looking at tackling?
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards, Greg -------- Life is not a rehearsal, you only live once!
im not good at programming but im sure with time if i hang around the likes of Greg, i just might improve my skills at it. count me in On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 1:28 AM, Gregory Okoth <gregory.okoth@gmail.com>wrote:
@Kioko, Thats a process that will take for ever.....everyone will come up with all manner of ideas and priorities! Lets just get started and done with already....... :-)
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
In this case, Should we then create a list of priorities and how we should approach the whole issue. Should we start as an informal/semi-formal set up and adopt certain priorities and then move up taking more priorities and getting into a formal setting.
In this case, what issues are we looking at tackling?
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards, Greg -------- Life is not a rehearsal, you only live once!
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- "Change is the only constant"- Heraclitus
My Strategy is 1. We contribute funds (or through a fund raiser!) open a bank account, to help us operate 2. Register Kenya Association of Computer Programmers (KACP), and maybe affiliate to Kenya Computer Society 3. Have memberships, who will of course be vetted by a system like oDesk [ odesk.com] that Common Ndwe'x suggested 4. Recruit more members (at a fee, whether through monthly or annual subscription) to the association and 5. Create awareness in the industry (firms and companies should get coders who have our approval/blessings!!) so that we are recognized and respected 6. Offer trainings, seminars, and the rest 7. More suggestions plz.... :-))) Thats my 2c's in a nutshell....!! -- Regards, Greg -------- Life is not a rehearsal, you only live once! On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 11:40 AM, joel eliakim <joeliakim@gmail.com> wrote:
im not good at programming but im sure with time if i hang around the likes of Greg, i just might improve my skills at it. count me in
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 1:28 AM, Gregory Okoth <gregory.okoth@gmail.com>wrote:
@Kioko, Thats a process that will take for ever.....everyone will come up with all manner of ideas and priorities! Lets just get started and done with already....... :-)
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
In this case, Should we then create a list of priorities and how we should approach the whole issue. Should we start as an informal/semi-formal set up and adopt certain priorities and then move up taking more priorities and getting into a formal setting.
In this case, what issues are we looking at tackling?
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards, Greg -------- Life is not a rehearsal, you only live once!
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- "Change is the only constant"- Heraclitus
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
Ooops!! 2. Computer Society of Kenya!! On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 12:28 PM, Gregory Okoth <gregory.okoth@gmail.com>wrote:
My Strategy is 1. We contribute funds (or through a fund raiser!) open a bank account, to help us operate 2. Register Kenya Association of Computer Programmers (KACP), and maybe affiliate to Kenya Computer Society 3. Have memberships, who will of course be vetted by a system like oDesk [ odesk.com] that Common Ndwe'x suggested 4. Recruit more members (at a fee, whether through monthly or annual subscription) to the association and 5. Create awareness in the industry (firms and companies should get coders who have our approval/blessings!!) so that we are recognized and respected 6. Offer trainings, seminars, and the rest 7. More suggestions plz.... :-)))
Thats my 2c's in a nutshell....!!
--
Regards, Greg -------- Life is not a rehearsal, you only live once!
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 11:40 AM, joel eliakim <joeliakim@gmail.com>wrote:
im not good at programming but im sure with time if i hang around the likes of Greg, i just might improve my skills at it. count me in
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 1:28 AM, Gregory Okoth <gregory.okoth@gmail.com>wrote:
@Kioko, Thats a process that will take for ever.....everyone will come up with all manner of ideas and priorities! Lets just get started and done with already....... :-)
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
In this case, Should we then create a list of priorities and how we should approach the whole issue. Should we start as an informal/semi-formal set up and adopt certain priorities and then move up taking more priorities and getting into a formal setting.
In this case, what issues are we looking at tackling?
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards, Greg -------- Life is not a rehearsal, you only live once!
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- "Change is the only constant"- Heraclitus
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards, Greg -------- Life is not a rehearsal, you only live once!
We can start by registering a programmers association. Then laying the rules, then implementing guidelines and so on. ... small baby steps, significant milestones achievements Peter On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 11:40 AM, joel eliakim <joeliakim@gmail.com> wrote:
im not good at programming but im sure with time if i hang around the likes of Greg, i just might improve my skills at it. count me in
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 1:28 AM, Gregory Okoth <gregory.okoth@gmail.com>wrote:
@Kioko, Thats a process that will take for ever.....everyone will come up with all manner of ideas and priorities! Lets just get started and done with already....... :-)
what are we starting? what will it do and how will it do it?
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 11:14 AM, Oliver Ndegwa <olie.ndegwa@gmail.com>wrote:
I raised this issue on this mailing list and everyone wanted to kill me saying that we should join the Computer society of Kenya or any other reg. organisation. I am glad a few of us now share the same sentiments as I do.
Also it helps us as developers to protect ourselves from unscrupulous businessmen and companies that want to take advantage of our hard earned skills and pay nothing for them.
I second this completely :D
regards Oliver
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 11:08 AM, Luke Kuvheya <tendayi.kuvheya@gmail.com>wrote:
True.. We need such, since we toking bou it lets set it up... Count me in.
Regards Luke
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 10:08 AM, Boniface <mboteb@gmail.com> wrote:
What you need is an organization to protect your customers against quacks and also help startups avoid making mistakes many have made. That way you can prevent de-valuation of ICT services by regulating standards and also preventing under-cutting. By so doing people will benefit more from ICT. Not everyone who can dispense medicine is a doctor.. We need standards and the like.
My 2C's.
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 6:25 PM, Gregory Okoth <gregory.okoth@gmail.com>wrote:
@Bernard, Well said...its the programmer's welfare that we envisage from such an association(s). Not the software standards or anything to do with standardization. If I may revisit my example, LSK doesn't try to set new standards of the Law, but the practice itself and its recognition; and that it approves and stands for good lawyers in that profession according to a set of rules for its members.
In the end, this has the overall effect to both the service providers (be it lawyers or coder) and the service recipients (be it software end users or defendants in courts) for good quality service and recognition by industry as a respectable occupation! End result, a firm wont pay a coder peanuts just becuase they think a coder's job is not "that important" This is the reality in Kenya, not US or UK or even India (the land of outsourcing)!
I think am done with explaining!!
-- Regards, Greg -------- Life is not a rehearsal, you only live once!
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 5:48 PM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com>wrote:
Dennis, is it the software that needs to meet standards or is it the programmers who need to be of a certain quality....i think we should be talking about the programmer...
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 4:57 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com>wrote:
I do not think that we need an association to develop Standards. Several standards in the computing industry have been developed openly. We can do that right here in skunkworks. Discuss and agree that Software must meet some certain conditions to be standard-compliant _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
Me too!! 99.999% completely!! :-) On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 12:43 PM, Kiti Chigiri <kiti.chigiri@gmail.com>wrote:
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 11:14 AM, Oliver Ndegwa <olie.ndegwa@gmail.com>wrote:
I raised this issue on this mailing list and everyone wanted to kill me saying that we should join the Computer society of Kenya or any other reg. organisation. I am glad a few of us now share the same sentiments as I do.
Also it helps us as developers to protect ourselves from unscrupulous businessmen and companies that want to take advantage of our hard earned skills and pay nothing for them.
I second this completely :D
regards Oliver
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 11:08 AM, Luke Kuvheya <tendayi.kuvheya@gmail.com
wrote:
True.. We need such, since we toking bou it lets set it up... Count me in.
Regards Luke
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 10:08 AM, Boniface <mboteb@gmail.com> wrote:
What you need is an organization to protect your customers against quacks and also help startups avoid making mistakes many have made. That way you can prevent de-valuation of ICT services by regulating standards and also preventing under-cutting. By so doing people will benefit more from ICT. Not everyone who can dispense medicine is a doctor.. We need standards and the like.
My 2C's.
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 6:25 PM, Gregory Okoth <gregory.okoth@gmail.com
wrote:
@Bernard, Well said...its the programmer's welfare that we envisage from such an association(s). Not the software standards or anything to do with standardization. If I may revisit my example, LSK doesn't try to set new standards of the Law, but the practice itself and its recognition; and that it approves and stands for good lawyers in that profession according to a set of rules for its members.
In the end, this has the overall effect to both the service providers (be it lawyers or coder) and the service recipients (be it software end users or defendants in courts) for good quality service and recognition by industry as a respectable occupation! End result, a firm wont pay a coder peanuts just becuase they think a coder's job is not "that important" This is the reality in Kenya, not US or UK or even India (the land of outsourcing)!
I think am done with explaining!!
-- Regards, Greg -------- Life is not a rehearsal, you only live once!
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 5:48 PM, bernard kioko <bernsoft@gmail.com>wrote:
Dennis, is it the software that needs to meet standards or is it the programmers who need to be of a certain quality....i think we should be talking about the programmer...
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 4:57 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com>wrote:
> I do not think that we need an association to develop Standards. > Several standards in the computing industry have been developed openly. We > can do that right here in skunkworks. Discuss and agree that Software must > meet some certain conditions to be standard-compliant > _______________________________________________ > Skunkworks mailing list > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet > > http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... > ------------ > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards, Greg -------- Life is not a rehearsal, you only live once!
While on the same, someone asked me if there is a SACCO for IT guys in Kenya. I know Accountants have one, so my answer was maybe one is started and/or if there is one let me know. -- Many Thanks. Regards, Clement Ongera.
Don't re-invent the wheel. Start by checking out what accountants, Lawyers, Valuers etc are doing. Then import the script that works and tweek. On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 12:55 PM, Clement Ongera <cnongera@gmail.com> wrote:
While on the same, someone asked me if there is a SACCO for IT guys in Kenya. I know Accountants have one, so my answer was maybe one is started and/or if there is one let me know. -- Many Thanks.
Regards, Clement Ongera. _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
Mission? Vission? What is bringing us together? kazi ya hiyo association ni nini? e.t.c where would we be going with this? On 15 October 2010 15:25, Boniface <mboteb@gmail.com> wrote:
Don't re-invent the wheel. Start by checking out what accountants, Lawyers, Valuers etc are doing. Then import the script that works and tweek.
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 12:55 PM, Clement Ongera <cnongera@gmail.com>wrote:
While on the same, someone asked me if there is a SACCO for IT guys in Kenya. I know Accountants have one, so my answer was maybe one is started and/or if there is one let me know. -- Many Thanks.
Regards, Clement Ongera. _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Mimano G. Muthondu, Software Developer skype : gmimano Mobile : +254 723 615 206
@Denno, I also do not think we are trying to develop standards in S/W and/or Coding!! That would go to some RFC's in some ANSI boardroom (and maybe the SDLC chorus we have sung since time-of-coding immemorial!! ) The umbrella body would set acceptable standards of the Coding/Programming profession in Kenya.....this will go a long way in making coders be appreciated and respected that its a profession that can earn some1 (a coder) in Kenya a living!! This is all we are saying!! Duh...!!! Have a look at this link: http://www.iddsalim.com/blog/category/coding/ for some food for thought -- Regards, Greg -------- Life is not a rehearsal, you only live once! On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 4:57 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
I do not think that we need an association to develop Standards. Several standards in the computing industry have been developed openly. We can do that right here in skunkworks. Discuss and agree that Software must meet some certain conditions to be standard-compliant _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards, Greg -------- Life is not a rehearsal, you only live once!
participants (15)
-
bernard kioko -
Boniface -
Clement Ongera -
David Njuguna -
Dennis Kioko -
Geoffrey Mimano -
Gregory Okoth -
joel eliakim -
Joram Mwinamo -
Kiti Chigiri -
Luke Kuvheya -
Nd'wex Common -
Oliver Ndegwa -
Peter Muchemi -
Peter Osotsi