If you are half as nuts as I am
Check this out, design your database without tables using mongodb<http://www.mongodb.org/>, create a web backend that sends a HTML template and a JSON document then template on the browser using PURE <http://beebole.com/pure> <http://beebole.com/pure>Anyone else looking into heading this direction please spread the gospel. D
Mongodb yeah, though haven't heard of Pure
Well, now you have. If you are storing data as JSON documents then it makes sense to transform JSON to XHTML using PURE or JTemplates or whatever other competitor is out there. On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 10:55 AM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
Mongodb yeah, though haven't heard of Pure _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
The only time I tried JSON, I gave up as I couldnt parse 1 field as JSON. Mt framework only allowed me to parse a whole model, and the fix included an application that was bigger than my application. sti;ll trying to get the hang of JSON and JS
Hi David, You have a nice online resource (tutorial, writeup, review etc) that ties the 3 (mongodb, json and pure) up together ? I've scratched the surfae on IBM's Lotus and couchdb and I think the whole idea behind document-based/key-value db's are revolutionary. On 22 November 2010 16:57, David Njuguna <dnjuguna@gmail.com> wrote:
Check this out, design your database without tables using mongodb<http://www.mongodb.org/>, create a web backend that sends a HTML template and a JSON document then template on the browser using PURE <http://beebole.com/pure>
<http://beebole.com/pure>Anyone else looking into heading this direction please spread the gospel.
D
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Ah.. I tried MongoDB: The insert rates i got were pathetic. ~3k for MongoDB vs ~11k for PostgreSQL (w/out fsync). Yes i tried every rule in the book, but a run time of > 2 days for 400 million inserts was not doable. PostgreSQL < 12 hours was acceptable. This test included scripts in sed/awk and a python based inserter to both datastores. whoislogger=# select last_value from whois_logs2_id_seq;select pg_sleep(60); select last_value from whois_logs2_id_seq; last_value ------------ 202353081 (1 row) pg_sleep ---------- (1 row) last_value ------------ 202990585 (1 row) over 650k inserts/min So you see with proper tuning, I can get PostgreSQL to do better insert rates than MongoDB.. with all the benefits of PostgreSQL and standard sql. MongoDB is webscale! PS: Whatever you do, DO NOT STORE YOUR SENSITIVE DATA IN MongoDB. Logs are ok, banking data/e-commerce transactions are not. Read this: http://ivoras.sharanet.org/blog/tree/2009-11-05.a-short-time-with-mongodb.ht... and watch this: http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6995033/ On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 10:38 AM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi David,
You have a nice online resource (tutorial, writeup, review etc) that ties the 3 (mongodb, json and pure) up together ? I've scratched the surfae on IBM's Lotus and couchdb and I think the whole idea behind document-based/key-value db's are revolutionary.
On 22 November 2010 16:57, David Njuguna <dnjuguna@gmail.com> wrote:
Check this out, design your database without tables using mongodb, create a web backend that sends a HTML template and a JSON document then template on the browser using PURE Anyone else looking into heading this direction please spread the gospel.
D _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
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What about if one requires a distributed server for an application to be used from several locations?
On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 7:09 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
What about if one requires a distributed server for an application to be used from several locations? I still believe you can do that. Albeit with a few restrictions. Most database allow replication and with that, you can have a single box as a the write box and multiple readers (from the replicated hosts.). Wikipedia/facebook uses this AFAIK http://dom.as/2010/07/25/mysql-versions-at-wikipedia/ http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2008/06/24/a-look-inside-wikiped... http://www.paragon-cs.com/wordpress/?p=144
A couple of people also use Multi-master replication for their databases http://mysql-mmm.org/start
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Thanks, is this also available on possible on PostgreSQL? I have not googled.....
On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 1:15 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks, is this also available on possible on PostgreSQL? I have not googled..... Yes, http://www.slony.info/ http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Streaming_Replication http://www.enterprisedb.com/customers.do#ui-tabs-75 _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
@laban. what were your server specs?? On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 6:06 PM, Laban Mwangi <lmwangi@gmail.com> wrote:
Ah.. I tried MongoDB:
The insert rates i got were pathetic. ~3k for MongoDB vs ~11k for PostgreSQL (w/out fsync). Yes i tried every rule in the book, but a run time of > 2 days for 400 million inserts was not doable. PostgreSQL < 12 hours was acceptable.
This test included scripts in sed/awk and a python based inserter to both datastores.
whoislogger=# select last_value from whois_logs2_id_seq;select pg_sleep(60); select last_value from whois_logs2_id_seq; last_value ------------ 202353081 (1 row)
pg_sleep ----------
(1 row)
last_value ------------ 202990585 (1 row)
over 650k inserts/min
So you see with proper tuning, I can get PostgreSQL to do better insert rates than MongoDB.. with all the benefits of PostgreSQL and standard sql.
MongoDB is webscale!
PS: Whatever you do, DO NOT STORE YOUR SENSITIVE DATA IN MongoDB. Logs are ok, banking data/e-commerce transactions are not.
Read this: http://ivoras.sharanet.org/blog/tree/2009-11-05.a-short-time-with-mongodb.ht... and watch this: http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6995033/
On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 10:38 AM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi David,
You have a nice online resource (tutorial, writeup, review etc) that ties the 3 (mongodb, json and pure) up together ? I've scratched the surfae on IBM's Lotus and couchdb and I think the whole idea behind document-based/key-value db's are revolutionary.
On 22 November 2010 16:57, David Njuguna <dnjuguna@gmail.com> wrote:
Check this out, design your database without tables using mongodb,
create
a web backend that sends a HTML template and a JSON document then template on the browser using PURE Anyone else looking into heading this direction please spread the gospel.
D _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
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-- Thanks and Regards, Erick Njenga Nyachwaya, M: +254-725-008-790 <http://www.facebook.com/ErickNjenga> <http://www.twitter.com/ErickNjenga>
@Laban, these databases are optimized for reading. Have you tested reading tests? D On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 6:10 PM, Erick Njenga <eriknjenga@gmail.com> wrote:
@laban. what were your server specs??
On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 6:06 PM, Laban Mwangi <lmwangi@gmail.com> wrote:
Ah.. I tried MongoDB:
The insert rates i got were pathetic. ~3k for MongoDB vs ~11k for PostgreSQL (w/out fsync). Yes i tried every rule in the book, but a run time of > 2 days for 400 million inserts was not doable. PostgreSQL < 12 hours was acceptable.
This test included scripts in sed/awk and a python based inserter to both datastores.
whoislogger=# select last_value from whois_logs2_id_seq;select pg_sleep(60); select last_value from whois_logs2_id_seq; last_value ------------ 202353081 (1 row)
pg_sleep ----------
(1 row)
last_value ------------ 202990585 (1 row)
over 650k inserts/min
So you see with proper tuning, I can get PostgreSQL to do better insert rates than MongoDB.. with all the benefits of PostgreSQL and standard sql.
MongoDB is webscale!
PS: Whatever you do, DO NOT STORE YOUR SENSITIVE DATA IN MongoDB. Logs are ok, banking data/e-commerce transactions are not.
Read this: http://ivoras.sharanet.org/blog/tree/2009-11-05.a-short-time-with-mongodb.ht... and watch this: http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6995033/
On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 10:38 AM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi David,
You have a nice online resource (tutorial, writeup, review etc) that ties the 3 (mongodb, json and pure) up together ? I've scratched the surfae on IBM's Lotus and couchdb and I think the whole idea behind document-based/key-value db's are revolutionary.
On 22 November 2010 16:57, David Njuguna <dnjuguna@gmail.com> wrote:
Check this out, design your database without tables using mongodb,
create
a web backend that sends a HTML template and a JSON document then template on the browser using PURE Anyone else looking into heading this direction please spread the gospel.
D _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
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--
Thanks and Regards, Erick Njenga Nyachwaya, M: +254-725-008-790
<http://www.facebook.com/ErickNjenga> <http://www.twitter.com/ErickNjenga>
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@Ndungi, I do not have a write up yet, but now that you mention it I probably should start blogging. NO-SQL could easily be the future datastore for web apps. D On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 12:37 PM, David Njuguna <dnjuguna@gmail.com> wrote:
@Laban, these databases are optimized for reading. Have you tested reading tests?
D
On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 6:10 PM, Erick Njenga <eriknjenga@gmail.com>wrote:
@laban. what were your server specs??
On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 6:06 PM, Laban Mwangi <lmwangi@gmail.com> wrote:
Ah.. I tried MongoDB:
The insert rates i got were pathetic. ~3k for MongoDB vs ~11k for PostgreSQL (w/out fsync). Yes i tried every rule in the book, but a run time of > 2 days for 400 million inserts was not doable. PostgreSQL < 12 hours was acceptable.
This test included scripts in sed/awk and a python based inserter to both datastores.
whoislogger=# select last_value from whois_logs2_id_seq;select pg_sleep(60); select last_value from whois_logs2_id_seq; last_value ------------ 202353081 (1 row)
pg_sleep ----------
(1 row)
last_value ------------ 202990585 (1 row)
over 650k inserts/min
So you see with proper tuning, I can get PostgreSQL to do better insert rates than MongoDB.. with all the benefits of PostgreSQL and standard sql.
MongoDB is webscale!
PS: Whatever you do, DO NOT STORE YOUR SENSITIVE DATA IN MongoDB. Logs are ok, banking data/e-commerce transactions are not.
Read this: http://ivoras.sharanet.org/blog/tree/2009-11-05.a-short-time-with-mongodb.ht... and watch this: http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6995033/
On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 10:38 AM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi David,
You have a nice online resource (tutorial, writeup, review etc) that ties the 3 (mongodb, json and pure) up together ? I've scratched the surfae on IBM's Lotus and couchdb and I think the whole idea behind document-based/key-value db's are revolutionary.
On 22 November 2010 16:57, David Njuguna <dnjuguna@gmail.com> wrote:
Check this out, design your database without tables using mongodb,
create
a web backend that sends a HTML template and a JSON document then template on the browser using PURE Anyone else looking into heading this direction please spread the gospel.
D _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
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--
Thanks and Regards, Erick Njenga Nyachwaya, M: +254-725-008-790
<http://www.facebook.com/ErickNjenga><http://www.twitter.com/ErickNjenga>
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Foursquare use MongoDB Facebook have their own NO-SQL DB same as Google
I think before rushing the newest fad it would be wise to do intense research into what problems NoSQL database solve and whether it is worth the investment. The problems Amazon and Facebook and Twitter have are unlikely to be the same as the typical add-edit record applications. This video http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6995033/ has some excellent discussion On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 12:41 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
Foursquare use MongoDB Facebook have their own NO-SQL DB same as Google
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True, NoSQL dbs may be good to play with and learn, but in my humble opinion most projects that we handle around here don't warrant their use. If I'm not wrong, Cassandra, which FB use, only powers their Inbox search feature. So it's not the only DB they use. They still use MySql. On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 3:03 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
I think before rushing the newest fad it would be wise to do intense research into what problems NoSQL database solve and whether it is worth the investment. The problems Amazon and Facebook and Twitter have are unlikely to be the same as the typical add-edit record applications.
This video http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6995033/ has some excellent discussion
On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 12:41 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
Foursquare use MongoDB Facebook have their own NO-SQL DB same as Google
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For me its as simple as: if I want a web app for a small group of users I will stick to RDBMS but if I dream of ever getting to 10 million daily average users you might want to look at mongodb or couchdb. D On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 3:47 PM, Edwin Kaduki <kaduki@edwinkaduki.com>wrote:
True, NoSQL dbs may be good to play with and learn, but in my humble opinion most projects that we handle around here don't warrant their use. If I'm not wrong, Cassandra, which FB use, only powers their Inbox search feature. So it's not the only DB they use. They still use MySql.
On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 3:03 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
I think before rushing the newest fad it would be wise to do intense research into what problems NoSQL database solve and whether it is worth the investment. The problems Amazon and Facebook and Twitter have are unlikely to be the same as the typical add-edit record applications.
This video http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6995033/ has some excellent discussion
On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 12:41 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
Foursquare use MongoDB Facebook have their own NO-SQL DB same as Google
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@Rad, I hope you realize that video is completely biased. I have worked with system doing upto 30 million pageviews in a day and I have an informed appreciation of the some of achievements of mongodb. D . On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 8:25 PM, David Njuguna <dnjuguna@gmail.com> wrote:
For me its as simple as: if I want a web app for a small group of users I will stick to RDBMS but if I dream of ever getting to 10 million daily average users you might want to look at mongodb or couchdb.
D
On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 3:47 PM, Edwin Kaduki <kaduki@edwinkaduki.com>wrote:
True, NoSQL dbs may be good to play with and learn, but in my humble opinion most projects that we handle around here don't warrant their use. If I'm not wrong, Cassandra, which FB use, only powers their Inbox search feature. So it's not the only DB they use. They still use MySql.
On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 3:03 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
I think before rushing the newest fad it would be wise to do intense research into what problems NoSQL database solve and whether it is worth the investment. The problems Amazon and Facebook and Twitter have are unlikely to be the same as the typical add-edit record applications.
This video http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6995033/ has some excellent discussion
On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 12:41 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
Foursquare use MongoDB Facebook have their own NO-SQL DB same as Google
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On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 7:10 PM, Erick Njenga <eriknjenga@gmail.com> wrote:
@laban. what were your server specs??
Both PG and Mongo sat on the same server. Well a VM: * 2 GHz Quad Core * 2 GB RAM # vgs VG #PV #LV #SN Attr VSize VFree nosqlstore 1 1 0 wz--n- 100.00g 0 /dev/mapper/nosqlstore-lvol0 on /mnt/data type xfs (rw,noatime,logbufs=8) # uname -a Linux mongodb 2.6.32-5-amd64 #1 SMP Fri Sep 17 21:50:19 UTC 2010 x86_64 GNU/Linux and the LVM volume is a virtio block device
On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 6:06 PM, Laban Mwangi <lmwangi@gmail.com> wrote:
Ah.. I tried MongoDB:
The insert rates i got were pathetic. ~3k for MongoDB vs ~11k for PostgreSQL (w/out fsync). Yes i tried every rule in the book, but a run time of > 2 days for 400 million inserts was not doable. PostgreSQL < 12 hours was acceptable.
This test included scripts in sed/awk and a python based inserter to both datastores.
whoislogger=# select last_value from whois_logs2_id_seq;select pg_sleep(60); select last_value from whois_logs2_id_seq; last_value ------------ 202353081 (1 row)
pg_sleep ----------
(1 row)
last_value ------------ 202990585 (1 row)
over 650k inserts/min
So you see with proper tuning, I can get PostgreSQL to do better insert rates than MongoDB.. with all the benefits of PostgreSQL and standard sql.
MongoDB is webscale!
PS: Whatever you do, DO NOT STORE YOUR SENSITIVE DATA IN MongoDB. Logs are ok, banking data/e-commerce transactions are not.
Read this: http://ivoras.sharanet.org/blog/tree/2009-11-05.a-short-time-with-mongodb.ht... and watch this: http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6995033/
On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 10:38 AM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi David,
You have a nice online resource (tutorial, writeup, review etc) that ties the 3 (mongodb, json and pure) up together ? I've scratched the surfae on IBM's Lotus and couchdb and I think the whole idea behind document-based/key-value db's are revolutionary.
On 22 November 2010 16:57, David Njuguna <dnjuguna@gmail.com> wrote:
Check this out, design your database without tables using mongodb,
create
a web backend that sends a HTML template and a JSON document then template on the browser using PURE Anyone else looking into heading this direction please spread the gospel.
D _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
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--
Thanks and Regards, Erick Njenga Nyachwaya, M: +254-725-008-790
<http://www.facebook.com/ErickNjenga> <http://www.twitter.com/ErickNjenga>
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participants (7)
-
David Njuguna -
Dennis Kioko -
Edwin Kaduki -
Erick Njenga -
Laban Mwangi -
Ndungi Kyalo -
Rad!