I will start a KuKlaxKlan on Joomla. I HATE joomla. David. On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 11:16 AM, Michuki Mwangi <michuki@swiftkenya.com>wrote:

For a locally hosted website - it loads very slowly.

Regards,

Michuki.

On 7/4/11 10:49 AM, Mike M. wrote:

...

Just seen the kenic new look site....Joomla is the King! Excellent work!

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-- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.

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-- ------------- David Mugo, ICT & E-Commerce Consultant, http://majibu.com Twitter: @raidarmax

Aha! Introduced some new vulnerabilities, sssssssssshhhhhhhhh......... On 7/4/11, Steve Obbayi <steve@sobbayi.com> wrote:

Plus 1 from me David. I think I HATE JOOMLA more than you.

Steve

----- "David Mugo" <raidarmax@gmail.com> wrote:

...

I will start a KuKlaxKlan on Joomla. I HATE joomla.

David.

On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 11:16 AM, Michuki Mwangi < michuki@swiftkenya.com > wrote:

For a locally hosted website - it loads very slowly.

...

Regards,

Michuki.

On 7/4/11 10:49 AM, Mike M. wrote:

...

Just seen the kenic new look site....Joomla is the King! Excellent work!

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-- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.

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...

-- ------------- David Mugo, ICT & E-Commerce Consultant, http://majibu.com Twitter: @raidarmax

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-- -- Gichuki John Ndirangu, C.E.H , C.P.T.P, O.S.C.P I.T Security Analyst and Penetration Tester jgichuki at inbox d0t com {FORUM}http://lists.my.co.ke/pipermail/security/ http://chuksjonia.blogspot.com/

On 7/4/2011 5:52 PM, Paul Kevin wrote:

Joomla.....why do peeps use it? No, really

On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 5:51 PM, Gichuki John Chuksjonia <chuksjonia@gmail.com <mailto:chuksjonia@gmail.com>> wrote:

Aha! Introduced some new vulnerabilities, sssssssssshhhhhhhhh.........

On 7/4/11, Steve Obbayi <steve@sobbayi.com <mailto:steve@sobbayi.com>> wrote: > Plus 1 from me David. I think I HATE JOOMLA more than you. > > Steve > > ----- "David Mugo" <raidarmax@gmail.com <mailto:raidarmax@gmail.com>> wrote: >> I will start a KuKlaxKlan on Joomla. I HATE joomla. >> >> David. >> >> >> On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 11:16 AM, Michuki Mwangi < michuki@swiftkenya.com <mailto:michuki@swiftkenya.com> > >> wrote: >> > > For a locally hosted website - it loads very slowly. >> >> Regards, >> >> Michuki. >> >> >> On 7/4/11 10:49 AM, Mike M. wrote: >> > Just seen the kenic new look site....Joomla is the King! Excellent work! >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Skunkworks mailing list >> > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> >> > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >> > ------------ >> > Skunkworks Rules >> > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 <http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94> >> > ------------ >> > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >> >> -- >> This message has been scanned for viruses and >> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is >> believed to be clean. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Skunkworks mailing list >> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >> ------------ >> Skunkworks Rules >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 <http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94> >> ------------ >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >> >> > >> -- >> ------------- >> David Mugo, >> ICT & E-Commerce Consultant, >> http://majibu.com >> Twitter: @raidarmax >> >> >> _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list >> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ >> Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 <http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94> >> ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke

-- -- Gichuki John Ndirangu, C.E.H , C.P.T.P, O.S.C.P I.T Security Analyst and Penetration Tester jgichuki at inbox d0t com

{FORUM}http://lists.my.co.ke/pipermail/security/ http://chuksjonia.blogspot.com/ _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 <http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94> ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke Are sites made with Joomla unable to satisfy demand? Are sites made with Joomla unable to receive payments for?

(Hint: the answer to both questions is yes. End of story really.)

Why re-invent the WILL?? If its working dont fix it??? On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 2:37 AM, James Nzomo <kazikubwa@gmail.com> wrote:

Joomla is not bad...i just think it should be used by those who know how to use it.

Locally it has been abused. It has turned programmers/webdevs lazy.... infecting IT n00bs in the process. The n00bs inturn dash for joomla after landing a web design job.

One day one of them decided to install joomla on their local wamp setup, then when it was all done, uploaded the site to the host.......plus all the themes and plugins that were tried out..... all 45+ megabytes of it and all that done on a November 2010 ERA Orange modem connection. The n00b had to leave its laptop in the office overnight. By A.M when it was done uploading, it naturally failed to work and all responsibility was vested in me to fix the frikin problem and like a gentleman i did but after educating her on the benefits of using CSS+HTML+GFX... especially for simple sites.

One week later history repeated itself....manze dammit.....in thru one ear out the other!

I also know some "professional" friends who installed joomla sites but when they were asked to make some changes they went missing...coz :-

1. there was no plugin to do the job 2. the plugin that does the job requires a more recent joomla version (dependancies galore) 3. when they decide to code the feature, they find a php jungle..and since they are lazy they consider it tall order

*GROW SOME PROGRAMMING COJONES AND CODE YOUR SITES FROM SCRATCH!*

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke

@Brian Ngure Point taken On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 9:22 AM, Brian Ngure <brian@pixie.co.ke> wrote:

@Ben

WILL = something left when you die

WHEEL = what you mean

Regard's

Brian Ngure

On 5 Jul 2011 09:15, "Ben mukash" <mukashh@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Why re-invent the WILL?? If its working dont fix it???

On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 2:37 AM, James Nzomo <kazikubwa@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Joomla is not bad...i just think it should be used by those who know how to use it.

Locally it has been abused. It has turned programmers/webdevs lazy.... infecting IT n00bs in the process. The n00bs inturn dash for joomla after landing a web design job.

One day one of them decided to install joomla on their local wamp setup, then when it was all done, uploaded the site to the host.......plus all the themes and plugins that were tried out..... all 45+ megabytes of it and all that done on a November 2010 ERA Orange modem connection. The n00b had to leave its laptop in the office overnight. By A.M when it was done uploading, it naturally failed to work and all responsibility was vested in me to fix the frikin problem and like a gentleman i did but after educating her on the benefits of using CSS+HTML+GFX... especially for simple sites.

One week later history repeated itself....manze dammit.....in thru one ear out the other!

I also know some "professional" friends who installed joomla sites but when they were asked to make some changes they went missing...coz :-

1. there was no plugin to do the job 2. the plugin that does the job requires a more recent joomla version (dependancies galore) 3. when they decide to code the feature, they find a php jungle..and

...

...

since they are lazy they consider it tall order

*GROW SOME PROGRAMMING COJONES AND CODE YOUR SITES FROM SCRATCH!*

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke

The basic point is that Joomla is used by alot of people who don't know how to create components or modules or even edit the CSSes for them to at least match the rest of the site. I get very disappointed to hear a programmer hates Joomla when it's one of the projects that has stayed free and has a million and one extensions that you can open up in your IDE and modify to your tastes. However, I do agree, if you don't know how to customize your Joomla then stay away to avoid pissing off any Skunkers. In the end these guys get paid good money for total @#$%^$#$.... and we are left complaining about it without further action. On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Mike M. <mmycool@gmail.com> wrote:

The issue here is not about Joomla,but 'The website' ....Only Michuki Mwangi was objective. Hope the developers are listening...Sorry...reading.

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke

-- K. K.

On 7/6/2011 8:34 AM, Steve Obbayi wrote:

Why do you get disappointed when a programmer hates Joomla... that is exactly the point. Downloading and installing Joomla does not make you a programmer or rather developer. IT SIMPLY MAKES YOU A USER. There is nothing to be ashamed of calling yourself a Joomla User, No! Really I mean it.

The market is flooded with so called "Developers" oops I mean users who then go around claiming to have developed the website yet you did Jack!!!! Must admit, it makes your portfolio look good. Unfortunately thats where it ends. Installing a CMS and throwing in a logo and fancy colors and txt full of typos is not development.

Peronally I ran five blogs, one on blogger, one is a custom solution and three are on WordPress. I am pretty good in using WordPress for example, tweaking themes adding plugins etc. BUT IN NO WAY DO I CLAIM TO BE A WORDPRESS DEVELOPER. And so do millions of bloggers out there who have managed to set up their own blogs including the stay at home mom next door. So why do Joomla users call themselves developers and use the excuse of not reinventing the wheel? It beats me.

I thank God Google has decided to reinvent the wheel with Google+, I thank God for people like Mark Zucks who decided to reinvent the social wheel, I thank Apple who decided to reinvent the gadget wheel with iphone, ipad imac etc. I thank Google again who decided to reinvent the search engine wheel, I thank safaricom (feel free to rant) who decided to reinvent the money transfer wheel. Without reinventing the wheel we would be stuck in the eighties.

Lets see those who refuse to reinvent the wheel... Nokia??? At least they've woken up. Blackberry dudes, Microsoft... i think you get the point.

Its the same ways computer technicians abuse the word Engineer... A TECHNICIAN IS NOT AN ENGINEER. Its an insult to real Engineers. And that is where the first problem lies with Joomla.

For a real developer Joomla can save you hours of real coding. But the developer sacrifices scalability and a whole lot of stuff I dont want to get into here. Joomla cannot scale to the level of Facebook, google, twitter <name millions of other speciality sites here>. You need a custom setup to do that. Thats the whole point. For some of the stuff I have had to do, Joomla just does not cut it.

Why I hate Joomla. It does not promote INNOVATION neither does it promote the growth of the developer... oops I mean user unless you are focused on building mods then thats another story. On this list there is a lot of talk on innovation and being Africa's number one yet the people with potential to make this happen continue to close themselves in the Joomla box. Simple test... How many developers in Kenya have built Joomla modules? You be the judge and get my point. Developers have become so comfortable using Joomla that it has cripled the personal growth of the individual.

Joomla has generated too much hype that it cant live up to. Being a popular CMS does not mean it is good. Just the way PHP may be so popular but has many internal design issues and is relatively slow... Try writing a CPU intensive app woth PHP and you'll know what I mean. By the way despite that, I still like PHP :)

Joomla has its place and unfortunately that place is not in my heart.

I think al pause on this for now.

----- "Kago Kagichiri" <thekenyanprince@gmail.com> wrote:

...

The basic point is that Joomla is used by alot of people who don't know how to create components or modules or even edit the CSSes for them to at least match the rest of the site.

I get very disappointed to hear a programmer hates Joomla when it's one of the projects that has stayed free and has a million and one extensions that you can open up in your IDE and modify to your tastes.

However, I do agree, if you don't know how to customize your Joomla then stay away to avoid pissing off any Skunkers. In the end these guys get paid good money for total @#$%^$#$.... and we are left complaining about it without further action.

On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Mike M. <mmycool@gmail.com <mailto:mmycool@gmail.com>> wrote:

The issue here is not about Joomla,but 'The website' ....Only Michuki Mwangi was objective. Hope the developers are listening...Sorry...reading. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Skunkworks mailing list > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 <http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94> > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co..ke <http://my.co.ke> >

...

...

-- K. K.

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke

So the problem then is not Joomla, it is the users. Direct your anger appropriately. For me, I believe that if you can master an open source CMS like Joomla, down to creating your own extensions, doing template overrides, mastering the framework, you can use it to serve most purposes.

Joomla has done more than enough. Users can do more. In the end, I'm sure we all agree that a bad website done in any language is a bad website. On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 10:11 AM, Steve Obbayi <steve@sobbayi.com> wrote:

It seems you did not read this line...

...

"Why I hate Joomla. It does not promote INNOVATION neither does it promote the growth of the developer".

My issues are directed in the right place.

I like your statement..

...

For me, I believe that if you can master an open source CMS like Joomla, down to creating your own extensions, doing template overrides, mastering the framework, you can use it to serve most purposes.

That statement of yours is a case of a Good Craftsman making the best of a bad tool. What you have express simple adds on to what I said. What you have described is what a developer does and not a user. You expressions shows innovation and your own development as a developer. Joomla in itself does not promote that.

When a product promotes and shouts out "Hey come use me, get your website done in 17 miniutes 23 seconds, so easy to use even you grand ma can use it". That reminds me of these "As Seen on TV" Products that they advertise all day long. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/As_seen_on_TV_(marketing)

Joomla can certainly do better. It works no doubt, but there is more to just working for any serious advancement of your skills.

----- "Webmaster" <webmaster@kenyanlyrics.com> wrote:

...

On 7/6/2011 8:34 AM, Steve Obbayi wrote:

...

Why do you get disappointed when a programmer hates Joomla... that is

exactly the point. Downloading and installing Joomla does not make you a programmer or rather developer. IT SIMPLY MAKES YOU A USER. There is nothing to be ashamed of calling yourself a Joomla User, No! Really I mean it.

...

The market is flooded with so called "Developers" oops I mean users who

then go around claiming to have developed the website yet you did Jack!!!! Must admit, it makes your portfolio look good. Unfortunately thats where it ends. Installing a CMS and throwing in a logo and fancy colors and txt full of typos is not development.

...

Peronally I ran five blogs, one on blogger, one is a custom solution and

three are on WordPress. I am pretty good in using WordPress for example, tweaking themes adding plugins etc. BUT IN NO WAY DO I CLAIM TO BE A WORDPRESS DEVELOPER. And so do millions of bloggers out there who have managed to set up their own blogs including the stay at home mom next door. So why do Joomla users call themselves developers and use the excuse of not reinventing the wheel? It beats me.

...

I thank God Google has decided to reinvent the wheel with Google+, I

thank God for people like Mark Zucks who decided to reinvent the social wheel, I thank Apple who decided to reinvent the gadget wheel with iphone, ipad imac etc. I thank Google again who decided to reinvent the search engine wheel, I thank safaricom (feel free to rant) who decided to reinvent the money transfer wheel. Without reinventing the wheel we would be stuck in the eighties.

...

Lets see those who refuse to reinvent the wheel... Nokia??? At least

they've woken up. Blackberry dudes, Microsoft... i think you get the point.

...

Its the same ways computer technicians abuse the word Engineer... A

TECHNICIAN IS NOT AN ENGINEER. Its an insult to real Engineers. And that is where the first problem lies with Joomla.

...

For a real developer Joomla can save you hours of real coding. But the

developer sacrifices scalability and a whole lot of stuff I dont want to get into here. Joomla cannot scale to the level of Facebook, google, twitter <name millions of other speciality sites here>. You need a custom setup to do that. Thats the whole point. For some of the stuff I have had to do, Joomla just does not cut it.

...

Why I hate Joomla. It does not promote INNOVATION neither does it promote

the growth of the developer... oops I mean user unless you are focused on building mods then thats another story. On this list there is a lot of talk on innovation and being Africa's number one yet the people with potential to make this happen continue to close themselves in the Joomla box. Simple test... How many developers in Kenya have built Joomla modules? You be the judge and get my point. Developers have become so comfortable using Joomla that it has cripled the personal growth of the individual.

...

Joomla has generated too much hype that it cant live up to. Being a

popular CMS does not mean it is good. Just the way PHP may be so popular but has many internal design issues and is relatively slow... Try writing a CPU intensive app woth PHP and you'll know what I mean. By the way despite that, I still like PHP :)

...

Joomla has its place and unfortunately that place is not in my heart.

I think al pause on this for now.

----- "Kago Kagichiri" <thekenyanprince@gmail.com><thekenyanprince@gmail.com>wrote:

...

The basic point is that Joomla is used by alot of people who don't

know how to create components or modules or even edit the CSSes for them to at least match the rest of the site.

...

...

I get very disappointed to hear a programmer hates Joomla when it's one

of the projects that has stayed free and has a million and one extensions that you can open up in your IDE and modify to your tastes.

...

However, I do agree, if you don't know how to customize your Joomla

then stay away to avoid pissing off any Skunkers. In the end these guys get paid good money for total @#$%^$#$.... and we are left complaining about it without further action.

...

On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Mike M. <mmycool@gmail.com> wrote:

The issue here is not about Joomla,but 'The website' ....Only Michuki Mwangi was objective. Hope the developers are listening...Sorry...reading.

...

...

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co..ke <http://my.co.ke>

...

...

...

...

-- K. K.

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing listSkunkworks@lists.my.co.kehttp://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Ruleshttp://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke

So the problem then is not Joomla, it is the users. Direct your anger appropriately. For me, I believe that if you can master an open source CMS like Joomla, down to creating your own extensions, doing template overrides, mastering the framework, you can use it to serve most purposes.

...

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list

Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke

-- K. K.