Onyango, On a point of clarification - though I do not work for KICTANET or KENIC - on EAI-GF I noticed that Vincent had sent an email to Skunkworks, Kenya Internet Users lists and also had the same published in the print media. There were non-IT guys in the forum and they were contributing just as anybody else. So why the fuss? My argument will still be where is the so-called Consumer Rights body? Why didn't they attend the EAI-GF, for instance? I'm just short of understanding why should we just breath with fire online and fail to do the same when an opportunity is created? 2009/9/10 Onyango Hatari <onyango@inbox.com>

Sammy

Thanks alot for the insight. I agree with you on many points but I chose to be blunt because all the time Michael Joseph has been talking its been about Kenyans and their peculiar habits and if you have attended any press conference you will know how Michael Joseph takes it personally. Michael Joseph should know that Kenyans and Kenyan Internet consumers are two different things because not all Kenyans use Safaricom Internet service and thats why we will respond to him personally the moment he becomes arrogant and feelingless.

On EA IGF. KICTANET decided on many issues which locks out stakeholders. Who is the major stakeholders and dependants on the internet in Kenya? Did we see Mashada owners and administrators invited, Skunkworks, Young Professionals, BidiiAfrica, Mama Mikes, Kenya Imagine, Home Boyz, NYC IV, babatoto.com, and many others who depends on the internet and even those who understand more about internet issues and have more stake and not the usual Nation Media, Safaricom and Capital FM.

The moment we discriminate with invitation then you create an opportunity for rebelion and people dont view you well. We want to see the young people operating various social media invited and take the podium as main speakers and then we get the government and private sector also to respond. Otherwise I dont need to attend the EA IGF because let me tell you that it will never unite and you will never have one voice with teh current discriminating attitude from KICTANET and the government

About recession, no ISP who is refusing to lower cost is talking about recession. None. We want them to give us figures and the losses they are making or see themselves make when they lower the costs.

Nobody will seperate personality from issues as long as personality generalise and attack population when face with issues

OH

-----Original Message----- *From:* sam.gatere@gmail.com *Sent:* Thu, 10 Sep 2009 11:30:15 +0300 *To:* onyango@inbox.com *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Kenya: Consumers furious over high internet prices

woooooo drama! Bwana Hatari let me start by saying pole sana! you definately are very unhappy Internet consumer! however in the same breath a seperation of issues is important. MJ is not Safaricom and Safaricom is not MJ. In my humble opinion I would like to imagine that both (MJ and Safaricom) are independent enties in as viwed by the goverment and by the law. So the more approriate entity to lash out to would be Safaricom and Not MJ.

On another point just this week the EA-IGF was on for three days at the Jacaranda Hotel, the details of this forum were made public on this forum and this forum was possibly one of the best places to voice this concerns about the ICT related issues form pricing to QoS (quality of Service) Dr. Ndemo among other, Members of parliament both Kenyan and from the East African region were present. If Bwana Hatari's sentiments were raised in this forum on Day one I assure someone would have given them a good ear. Another important thing that came out was that we need a strong consumer Advocacy group that has a "face" and we can deal with this issues head on! I have not heard any one Bash AccessKenya For example with their "double your bandwidth for the same price" campaign... This basically shows they still want to charge the same despite enjoying low BULK bandwidth cost. KDN or UUNet (I stand to be corrected) annoucned a 90% reduction on bandwidth from $5000 for 1Mb to little over $500 for the same.

The other thing we may want to define is what is cheap or affordable Internet access? with the way things are now I doubt any telco or ISP will lower their rates remember they to are in this to make money and also consider that the global community is in recession. Some for example safaricom are a 20% stakeholder in the Teams cable which was a capital intensive venture! They guys who ought to be bashed really in my view are the media houses and news content developers if they do not give news that shows that there is a big Internet market in the country who will want to lower their prices in light of all the competition?

In my humble projection I do not foresee drastic price drops due to the landing of two fibre cables in the cost. There is just not enough competition. Maybe by March 2010 when EASSy lands and the Lion2 from Reunion Islands we shall see more serious competition. Also we need to understand the Last Mile solution also determines your final access cost! Maybe just maybe innovations such as that seen with triple play operator ZUKU might just be what will make Broadband Connectivity more accessible and possible more affordable!

A seperation of the issues, personalities and corporations is essential then we may start to see some reasonable results.

Kind Regards

SammyG

On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 10:01 AM, Onyango Hatari <onyango@inbox.com>wrote:

What MJ is displaying is arrogance which is being permitted by Dr Ndemo. The arrogance where a poor investor can come to our country, borrow money from our banks and then after getting rich close shop the same day like GTV without anyone questioning.

The arrogance where Michael Joseph can be brought here by the British masters and then forced upon us and after being rich buy guns and start sponsoring Kenyans like its happening in Isiolo where Lewa owners where MJ is a big owner of land is sponsoring violence and killing and maiming Kenyans and then we say that we have tribalism in Kenya.

Tribalism is being fuelled by racist and arrogant people like Michael Joseph and if its hard to see how Michael Joseph who in January was just waxing lyrical how much we will save on Fibre Optics is now arrogant to teh core then we need to review our stakes.

We dont need such cheap arrogance and Michael Joseph must be told so. How can you unilaterally decide without involving shareholders that tehy must get money through Mpesa? How can you just see Kenyans as people who eat and do nothing for the company while they gave yuo teh capital to expand?

Lets be realistic here. this is arrogance and impunity to teh core and we must face it headon. Alex, ukitaka backup you got me. We will continue highlighting this until it sinks in the head of everybody taht we have Hyenas masquerading as mother Teresa

Internet cost must go down and we support those fighting for this in facebook, and through other social media

...

-----Original Message----- From: alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com Sent: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 15:57:54 +0300 To: onyango@inbox.com Subject: Re: [kictanet] Kenya: Consumers furious over high internet prices

Prejudged you is not at all correct

You were on local media news days ago on this issue. I immediately asked you to react to my letter which you chose not to citing away on travel, and busy with business. As of today, when I asked you when specifically you would respond, you reverted with a two-word email "Next week".

You see, our advocacy for quality, affordable, fairly-priced communication is not dependent on any service providers schedules or their ability to respond, via email, to our requests for information.

And in any case, we have the right to state our position regardless and I am very sure that you can respond well via various media.

regards,

On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 3:47 PM, Michael Joseph<MJoseph@safaricom.co.ke> wrote:

...

I see you have prejudged us

Regards

Michael CEO Safaricom

On 9 Sep 2009, at 15:35, "Gakuru Alex" <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> wrote:

...

<http://www.bizcommunity.com/Article/410/16/39787.html>

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

This message was sent to: mjoseph@safaricom.co.ke Unsubscribe or change your options at

http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mjoseph%40safaricom.co....

#####################################################################################

...

NOTE: The information in this email and any attachments is confidential and may be legallyprivileged. It is intended only for the use of the named addressee. Emails are susceptible to alteration and their integrity cannot be guaranteed.Safaricom Limited does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of thisemail if the same is found to have been altered or manipulated.The contents and opinions expressed in this email are solely those of the authorand do not necessarily represent those of Safaricom Limited. Safaricom Limiteddisclaims any liability to the fullest extent permissible by law for any consequencesthat may arise from the contents of this email including but not limited to personalopinions, malicious and/or defamatory information and data/codes that may compromiseor damage the integrity of the recipient’s information technology systems.If you are not the intended recipient please notify the sender and immediately deletethis email from your system.Unless expressly stated by a duly authorised officer ofSafaricom Limited nothing contained in this email message may be construed as beingan offer to contract or an acceptance of an offer capable of constituting a contractbetween Safaricom Limited and any recipient(s) of this email.

#####################################################################################

...

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

This message was sent to: onyango@inbox.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/onyango%40inbox.com

____________________________________________________________ FREE ONLINE PHOTOSHARING - Share your photos online with your friends and family! Visit http://www.inbox.com/photosharing to find out more!

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

This message was sent to: sam.gatere@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/sam.gatere%40gmail.com

------------------------------ [image: 3D Earth Screensaver Preview] <http://www.inbox.com/earth> *Free 3D Earth Screensaver* Watch the Earth right on your desktop! Check it out at www.inbox.com/earth

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

This message was sent to: solo.mburu@gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/solo.mburu%40gmail.com

-- Solomon Mburu P.O. Box 19343 - 00202 Nairobi Cell: (+254-0) 735 431041 Man is a gregarious animal and enjoys agreement as cows will graze all the same way to the side of a hill! AND It is better to die in dignity than in the ignomity of ambiguous generosity! Sent from Nairobi, Kenya