In 1991, this man wrote this.........
I quote from a site : " Date: 25 Aug 91 20:57:08 GMT Organization: University of Helsinki Hello everybody out there using minix - I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones. This has been brewing since april, and is starting to get ready. I'd like any feedback on things people like/dislike in minix, as my OS resembles it somewhat (same physical layout of the file-system (due to practical reasons) among other things). I've currently ported bash(1.08) and gcc(1.40), and things seem to work. This implies that I'll get something practical within a few months, and I'd like to know what features most people would want. Any suggestions are welcome, but I won't promise I'll implement them :-) Linus (torvalds@kruuna.helsinki.fi) PS. Yes - it's free of any minix code, and it has a multi-threaded fs. It is NOT protable (uses 386 task switching etc), and it probably never will support anything other than AT-harddisks, as that's all I have :-(. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Words to wonder about!
Maybe 10 years down the line, someone will refer to the skunkworks archives as the birthplace of an idea that became a revolutionary product, or Skynet :-) On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 2:39 PM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
I quote from a site :
" Date: 25 Aug 91 20:57:08 GMT Organization: University of Helsinki
Hello everybody out there using minix -
I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones. This has been brewing since april, and is starting to get ready. I'd like any feedback on things people like/dislike in minix, as my OS resembles it somewhat (same physical layout of the file-system (due to practical reasons) among other things).
I've currently ported bash(1.08) and gcc(1.40), and things seem to work. This implies that I'll get something practical within a few months, and I'd like to know what features most people would want. Any suggestions are welcome, but I won't promise I'll implement them :-)
Linus (torvalds@kruuna.helsinki.fi)
PS. Yes - it's free of any minix code, and it has a multi-threaded fs. It is NOT protable (uses 386 task switching etc), and it probably never will support anything other than AT-harddisks, as that's all I have :-(.
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Words to wonder about!
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Those days many guys in skunkworks were still unable to figure out whats a PC is. 1991 goodness
I think the nig lesson here for me is that most ideas are usually great but one person can only go so far, just like African kids, it takes a community to develop it into a revolutionary reality!!! [?] On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Benjamin <anangwe@gmail.com> wrote:
Those days many guys in skunkworks were still unable to figure out whats a PC is. 1991 goodness
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typos: nig=>big samahani! On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 3:05 PM, Eva Kimathi <evakimathi@gmail.com> wrote:
I think the nig lesson here for me is that most ideas are usually great but one person can only go so far, just like African kids, it takes a community to develop it into a revolutionary reality!!! [?]
On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Benjamin <anangwe@gmail.com> wrote:
Those days many guys in skunkworks were still unable to figure out whats a PC is. 1991 goodness
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general
Thank God He lives to see how far his (free) Operating System has gone. -- Steve Obbayi US: +1 202 297 6831 KE: +254 722 627691 http://sobbayi.com http://blog.sobbayi.com
I quote from a site :
" Date: 25 Aug 91 20:57:08 GMT Organization: University of Helsinki
Hello everybody out there using minix -
I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones. This has been brewing since april, and is starting to get ready. I'd like any feedback on things people like/dislike in minix, as my OS resembles it somewhat (same physical layout of the file-system (due to practical reasons) among other things).
I've currently ported bash(1.08) and gcc(1.40), and things seem to work. This implies that I'll get something practical within a few months, and I'd like to know what features most people would want. Any suggestions are welcome, but I won't promise I'll implement them :-)
Linus (torvalds@kruuna.helsinki.fi)
PS. Yes - it's free of any minix code, and it has a multi-threaded fs. It is NOT protable (uses 386 task switching etc), and it probably never will support anything other than AT-harddisks, as that's all I have :-(.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Words to wonder about! _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general
Those who are serious Linux followers, please add you thoughts as to what Linus from scratch, what changes he made ( he talks about minix as a comparison ) and how then did the process take off. Was it just because of AT compatible computers that saw linux become what it is? I know I can get the info but am depending on those who are hard core linux to share their views. :-) I think this can be an interesting case study to build upon in time to come and would like you to share the journey of understanding and probably looking into his mind as he was at that stage. Rgds.
On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 10:44 AM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
Those who are serious Linux followers, please add you thoughts as to what Linus from scratch, what changes he made ( he talks about minix as a comparison ) and how then did the process take off. Was it just because of AT compatible computers that saw linux become what it is? I know I can get the info but am depending on those who are hard core linux to share their views. :-)
I think this can be an interesting case study to build upon in time to come and would like you to share the journey of understanding and probably looking into his mind as he was at that stage.
Rgds.
Eessshhhh!...... What kind of Linux people are on this list? Kwani all the flame throwers of linux have no clue what the founder did? Woooah! Kweli, tuko na shida. :-)) Linux listers, this thread was not a bashing etc but an in depth study. Ahh well, some other time then. :-)
@aki, I followed your thread for only a short while, and missed your questions. But here's my limited response: - Minix was/is a microkernel, Linus made linux a monolithic kernel. This is still an extemely hotly-debated issue, with Tanenbaum (the minix creator) and Linus basically tearing each other apart. Depending on who you talk to: microkernels are slow (because of the overhead of message passing); monolithic kernels are bloated/buggy/inefficient/inelegant. - It is hard to pin down the reasons for the uptake of Linux, but it surely had to be affected by the propietary wars between all the various Unix flavors. - Linus only built a kernel, for all the other tools he used existing GNU libraries (compilers, editors, linkers etc etc etc). That is why Stallman hates it when people refuse to call it GNU/Linux (to emphasis that it really used *a lot* of existing GNU tools). Perhaps the biggest lesson (for me) is that a successful opensource project requires: 1) a *solitary* champion 2) a working codebase/prototype for others to be interested in, play with and ultimately build on 3) a *benevolent* dictator who can avoid paralysis-by-committee Saidi On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 1:33 PM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 10:44 AM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
Those who are serious Linux followers, please add you thoughts as to what Linus from scratch, what changes he made ( he talks about minix as a comparison ) and how then did the process take off. Was it just because of AT compatible computers that saw linux become what it is? I know I can get the info but am depending on those who are hard core linux to share their views. :-)
I think this can be an interesting case study to build upon in time to come and would like you to share the journey of understanding and probably looking into his mind as he was at that stage.
Rgds.
Eessshhhh!...... What kind of Linux people are on this list? Kwani all the flame throwers of linux have no clue what the founder did? Woooah! Kweli, tuko na shida. :-)) Linux listers, this thread was not a bashing etc but an in depth study. Ahh well, some other time then. :-)
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general
And I should also: 4) a permissive license. It is interesting that Linus choose the GPL (more restrictive than other opensource licenses), I wonder how things would have turned out had he chosen a more permissive BSD-style license. Would Linux have exploded the way it has? Or would elements of Linux have quietly been used in Windows code (like the BSD-licensed networking stack in the Windows kernel) without anything being given back to the community? Hard to tell. Saidi PS @aki, I hope that helps. On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 1:47 PM, saidimu apale <saidimu@gmail.com> wrote:
@aki, I followed your thread for only a short while, and missed your questions. But here's my limited response:
- Minix was/is a microkernel, Linus made linux a monolithic kernel. This is still an extemely hotly-debated issue, with Tanenbaum (the minix creator) and Linus basically tearing each other apart. Depending on who you talk to: microkernels are slow (because of the overhead of message passing); monolithic kernels are bloated/buggy/inefficient/inelegant.
- It is hard to pin down the reasons for the uptake of Linux, but it surely had to be affected by the propietary wars between all the various Unix flavors.
- Linus only built a kernel, for all the other tools he used existing GNU libraries (compilers, editors, linkers etc etc etc). That is why Stallman hates it when people refuse to call it GNU/Linux (to emphasis that it really used *a lot* of existing GNU tools).
Perhaps the biggest lesson (for me) is that a successful opensource project requires: 1) a *solitary* champion 2) a working codebase/prototype for others to be interested in, play with and ultimately build on 3) a *benevolent* dictator who can avoid paralysis-by-committee
Saidi
On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 1:33 PM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 10:44 AM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
Those who are serious Linux followers, please add you thoughts as to what Linus from scratch, what changes he made ( he talks about minix as a comparison ) and how then did the process take off. Was it just because of AT compatible computers that saw linux become what it is? I know I can get the info but am depending on those who are hard core linux to share their views. :-)
I think this can be an interesting case study to build upon in time to come and would like you to share the journey of understanding and probably looking into his mind as he was at that stage.
Rgds.
Eessshhhh!...... What kind of Linux people are on this list? Kwani all the flame throwers of linux have no clue what the founder did? Woooah! Kweli, tuko na shida. :-)) Linux listers, this thread was not a bashing etc but an in depth study. Ahh well, some other time then. :-)
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participants (6)
-
aki -
Benjamin -
Eva Kimathi -
Peter Karunyu -
saidimu apale -
Steve Obbayi