Hey guys, Without turning the thread into a political bashing, I have been thinking about the threat of sanctions and what not and how it may affect those of us in the software market. Excerpt from Red Hat License: " ...*5. Export Control.* As required by the laws of the United States and
other countries, you represent and warrant that you: (a) understand that the Programs and their components may be subject to export controls under the U.S. Commerce Department's Export Administration Regulations ("*EAR*"); (b) are not located in a prohibited destination country under the EAR or *U.S. sanctions regulations (currently Cuba, Iran, Iraq, North Korea, Sudan and Syria, subject to change as posted by the United States government)*; (c) will not export, re-export, or transfer the Programs to any prohibited destination or persons or entities on the U.S. Bureau of Industry and Security Denied Parties List or Entity List, or the U.S. Office of Foreign Assets Control list of Specially Designated Nationals and Blocked Persons, or any similar lists maintained by other countries, without the necessary export license(s) or authorization(s); ..."
Many other software companies have similar conditions. If we do get sanctioned, will Kenya be added to the list? How comes Zimbabwe is not on that list yet it is said to be under sanctions? Do these sanctions really mean much anyway? Are they enforceable? Doesn't Sudan use Oracle, Red Hat, et al? If they are, are there ways around it? Am assuming these laws will not be backdated and will only apply from the date of sanction, if it ever comes to that. I need someone to clarify this for me since I have realized all I have right now is my opinion which may be flawed/biased. Mr. Lawi
Hi Brian, These lists mainly comprise of countries that are active state sponsors of terrorism and just because someone is an ICC suspect, it doesn't not mean that that person's country of nationality is added the list. The US and the UN Security Council also maintain a separate list which includes individuals who have been blacklisted for various reasons, such as being suspected terrorists, impropriety or other crimes committed against humanity or other individuals such as drug and human trafficking as well as money laundering. This is where the so called 'ICC' suspects may end up. But again, this will happens if they pose any threat to international justice, or fail to cooperate with the ICC or any other court with international jurisdiction. You may also note that those people who end up in these lists are people who's countries have either failed or unwilling to prosecute. So no, Zimbabwe is not in the list, and probably will never be unless they start to sponsor terrorist, or subvert justice in other countries. But their leaders are in the list, for official corruption and other activities. Same applies to travel bans. We are more likely to see Rwanda in that list for activities in DRC that Zimbabwe. So Kenya may not face sanctions as a country, but key people may.
Thanks for the clarification, Musyoki, apart from the slight misspelling of my name. How u got Brian from Lawi I cant explain :) On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 9:34 AM, Philip Musyoki <pmusyoki@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Brian,
These lists mainly comprise of countries that are active state sponsors of terrorism and just because someone is an ICC suspect, it doesn't not mean that that person's country of nationality is added the list.
The US and the UN Security Council also maintain a separate list which includes individuals who have been blacklisted for various reasons, such as being suspected terrorists, impropriety or other crimes committed against humanity or other individuals such as drug and human trafficking as well as money laundering. This is where the so called 'ICC' suspects may end up. But again, this will happens if they pose any threat to international justice, or fail to cooperate with the ICC or any other court with international jurisdiction. You may also note that those people who end up in these lists are people who's countries have either failed or unwilling to prosecute.
So no, Zimbabwe is not in the list, and probably will never be unless they start to sponsor terrorist, or subvert justice in other countries. But their leaders are in the list, for official corruption and other activities. Same applies to travel bans. We are more likely to see Rwanda in that list for activities in DRC that Zimbabwe.
So Kenya may not face sanctions as a country, but key people may. _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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Sorry Bwana Lawi, I have the unfortunate habit of reading only the first word of someone name and my brain filling the rest. It works, except for incidents like these.
Bwana is nearly == Brian. & that is how he got it ./Ok3ch On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 9:58 AM, Bwana Lawi <mail2lawi@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks for the clarification, Musyoki, apart from the slight misspelling of my name. How u got Brian from Lawi I cant explain :)
On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 9:34 AM, Philip Musyoki <pmusyoki@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Brian,
These lists mainly comprise of countries that are active state sponsors of terrorism and just because someone is an ICC suspect, it doesn't not mean that that person's country of nationality is added the list.
The US and the UN Security Council also maintain a separate list which includes individuals who have been blacklisted for various reasons, such as being suspected terrorists, impropriety or other crimes committed against humanity or other individuals such as drug and human trafficking as well as money laundering. This is where the so called 'ICC' suspects may end up. But again, this will happens if they pose any threat to international justice, or fail to cooperate with the ICC or any other court with international jurisdiction. You may also note that those people who end up in these lists are people who's countries have either failed or unwilling to prosecute.
So no, Zimbabwe is not in the list, and probably will never be unless they start to sponsor terrorist, or subvert justice in other countries. But their leaders are in the list, for official corruption and other activities. Same applies to travel bans. We are more likely to see Rwanda in that list for activities in DRC that Zimbabwe.
So Kenya may not face sanctions as a country, but key people may. _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
Imposing sanctions is quite complex and cant be detailed in a simple paragraph. In the case of Zimbabwe you can get the details here http://harare.usembassy.gov/sanctions_facts_myths.html Steve ----- Original Message ----- | From: "Bwana Lawi" <mail2lawi@gmail.com> | To: "Skunkworks forum" <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> | Sent: Miércoles, 9 de Enero 2013 9:21:49 | Subject: [Skunkworks] Software Licences and Sanctions | Hey guys, | Without turning the thread into a political bashing, | I have been thinking about the threat of sanctions and what not and | how it may affect those of us in the software market. | Excerpt from Red Hat License: | | " ... 5. Export Control. As required by the laws of the United | | States | | and other countries, you represent and warrant that you: (a) | | understand that the Programs and their components may be subject to | | export controls under the U.S. Commerce Department's Export | | Administration Regulations (" EAR "); (b) are not located in a | | prohibited destination country under the EAR or U.S. sanctions | | regulations (currently Cuba, Iran, Iraq, North Korea, Sudan and | | Syria, subject to change as posted by the United States government) | | ; (c) will not export, re-export, or transfer the Programs to any | | prohibited destination or persons or entities on the U.S. Bureau of | | Industry and Security Denied Parties List or Entity List, or the | | U.S. Office of Foreign Assets Control list of Specially Designated | | Nationals and Blocked Persons, or any similar lists maintained by | | other countries, without the necessary export license(s) or | | authorization(s); ..." | | Many other software companies have similar conditions. If we do get | sanctioned, will Kenya be added to the list? How comes Zimbabwe is | not on that list yet it is said to be under sanctions? | Do these sanctions really mean much anyway? Are they enforceable? | Doesn't Sudan use Oracle, Red Hat, et al? | If they are, are there ways around it? Am assuming these laws will | not be backdated and will only apply from the date of sanction, if | it ever comes to that. | I need someone to clarify this for me since I have realized all I | have right now is my opinion which may be flawed/biased. | Mr. Lawi | _______________________________________________ | skunkworks mailing list | skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke | ------------ | List info, subscribe/unsubscribe | http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks | ------------ | Skunkworks Rules | http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 | ------------ | Other services @ http://my.co.ke
participants (4)
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Bwana Lawi -
Okechukwu -
Philip Musyoki -
Steve Obbayi