Banks and other things in general represent the failure of a greedy self centered economy?
Our economy seems to be run and supportive of only large scale businesses. Though I've not done an indepth research into the sectors, it seems that business of volumes in never going to take place in kenya unless you have businesses that run turnovers of tens of millions to really benefit from anything economic that kenya has to offer. Our economy encourages "matope tupu" schemes and a conman system in place to encourage theft and exploitation. Banks : Openly tell you deposit maximum interest rates @ 6% while borrowing loan rates @ 14-17%!! Oil companies buy crude at different prices but will not pass it on to end users. LPG cooking gas has been on the rise ever since. There are too many sectors to pick on, including our neareast ones i.e Service Providers. So ever wonder why prices will never drop, here's a simple example. If you borrow Ksh 5 million over 5 years @ 14% borrowing rate, monthly repayment is about Ksh 110,000/-!! So as a business, which is no charity in the first place, will pass on this expense to customers. Customer end up paying a further cost of 10-15% of what the original costs are. 15% plus the usual heavy markups = 35-50%. Heavy markups because costs like hiked rent, electricity, security, transport are being passed on to end users. Will things ever become cheaper, hakuna. This is the state of almost fake economies. Those who are buying properties and going on mortages as business investments better watch out. Today an apartment rent can cost as much as 80,000/-. Who excatly is going to pay this when they can borrow and finance it themselves? Why do I say fake economy. Look at the poverty and the number of increasing slums. Infact soon we should be labelled slum city or informal settlements because there is hardly anything much being done about the settlements in terms of solutions. Wherever there is a small empty space, there will be a shack soon enough. Population boom, heavily taxed middle income sector........... I wonder how many businesses are running in the RED because of heavy borrowing with killer interest rates? Or businesses are not in the RED because they are charging very heavy markups on services/products? What excatly is the solution? If you must borrow, then hit on markups and everyone should stop complaining of things being expensive. Afterall, the banks exploit everyone yet no one has closed their bank accounts either. My thots...
What a curiously self-defeating reinforcement message --especially coming just after I posted the 120 Gbps 'TEAMS' lighting...>>> bandwidth will never drop?? I reckon bandwidth must drop. By December 2008, total international bandwidth capacity was 1,421.15 Mbps - approximately 1.5 Gigabytes per second of 828.31Mbps downloads and 592.84 Mbps uploads. Now that's been pumped to 120 Gb/s - the total SAT-3/WASC capacity - and that's at 'TEAMS' operating at less that 10% of its 1.28 Tb/s capacity. Take heart... change is coming:-) On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 9:10 PM, aki<aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
Our economy seems to be run and supportive of only large scale businesses. Though I've not done an indepth research into the sectors, it seems that business of volumes in never going to take place in kenya unless you have businesses that run turnovers of tens of millions to really benefit from anything economic that kenya has to offer. Our economy encourages "matope tupu" schemes and a conman system in place to encourage theft and exploitation. Banks : Openly tell you deposit maximum interest rates @ 6% while borrowing loan rates @ 14-17%!! Oil companies buy crude at different prices but will not pass it on to end users. LPG cooking gas has been on the rise ever since. There are too many sectors to pick on, including our neareast ones i.e Service Providers. So ever wonder why prices will never drop, here's a simple example. If you borrow Ksh 5 million over 5 years @ 14% borrowing rate, monthly repayment is about Ksh 110,000/-!! So as a business, which is no charity in the first place, will pass on this expense to customers. Customer end up paying a further cost of 10-15% of what the original costs are. 15% plus the usual heavy markups = 35-50%. Heavy markups because costs like hiked rent, electricity, security, transport are being passed on to end users.
Will things ever become cheaper, hakuna. This is the state of almost fake economies. Those who are buying properties and going on mortages as business investments better watch out. Today an apartment rent can cost as much as 80,000/-. Who excatly is going to pay this when they can borrow and finance it themselves? Why do I say fake economy. Look at the poverty and the number of increasing slums. Infact soon we should be labelled slum city or informal settlements because there is hardly anything much being done about the settlements in terms of solutions. Wherever there is a small empty space, there will be a shack soon enough. Population boom, heavily taxed middle income sector...........
I wonder how many businesses are running in the RED because of heavy borrowing with killer interest rates? Or businesses are not in the RED because they are charging very heavy markups on services/products? What excatly is the solution?
If you must borrow, then hit on markups and everyone should stop complaining of things being expensive. Afterall, the banks exploit everyone yet no one has closed their bank accounts either.
My thots...
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On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 9:26 PM, Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com>wrote:
Take heart... change is coming:-)
@Alex, self defeating ? Is cheaper internet going to make operational costs cheaper? I don't think so. Internet is a very small corner of expenditure of most businesses. The effects are not going to be felt to except those who are doing large established turnovers. The majority rest will continue to feel the effects of almost fake economies i.e expensive borrowing, lack of loan peformances, a glut in unemployment and its effects, physical security business doing booming business and cost of food, fuel, rent, electricity, transport remains high.The Internet is also not going to change anyones lives in slum or informal settlement areas who will continue crying out for food, basic needs and a better future. Indeed, banks and other servcie sectors have led the way in conmen schemes out to steal and exploit the country with the BIG green light from governance. Try borrowing on that 14-17% on loans and see if it makes any business sense to be doing so, unless it can be passed on to end users and higher pricing..... :-) Rgds.
Aki I totally agree......... On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 9:51 PM, aki<aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 9:26 PM, Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> wrote:
Take heart... change is coming:-)
@Alex, self defeating ? Is cheaper internet going to make operational costs cheaper? I don't think so. Internet is a very small corner of expenditure of most businesses. The effects are not going to be felt to except those who are doing large established turnovers. The majority rest will continue to feel the effects of almost fake economies i.e expensive borrowing, lack of loan peformances, a glut in unemployment and its effects, physical security business doing booming business and cost of food, fuel, rent, electricity, transport remains high.The Internet is also not going to change anyones lives in slum or informal settlement areas who will continue crying out for food, basic needs and a better future.
Indeed, banks and other servcie sectors have led the way in conmen schemes out to steal and exploit the country with the BIG green light from governance.
Try borrowing on that 14-17% on loans and see if it makes any business sense to be doing so, unless it can be passed on to end users and higher pricing..... :-)
Rgds.
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-- Regards, Alvin Ochieng - Corporate Account Manager GREENLINE TECHNOLOGY LIMITED| IT solutions Odyssey Plaza 2nd Floor| Mukoma Road | Box 61895-00200 Nairobi. |+254.20. 651755 / 552086 Fax +254.20-559841. **Wireless - 020-2405225 / 020 - 2429734 ** CellPhone – 0722-219938 / 0733610758 Help save paper - do you need to print this email?
Aki, you couldn't have put it in a better way, i was just analyzing loan statements for a next of kin and i tell, "fraud" is an understatement, those interest rates! worse still they are taking advantage of clients with little knowledge on finance, nonetheless, this are symptoms of bad leadership and i similar to what the US has been going through, nonetheless as Alex put it Change is coming...it might take time but we will overcome, by the way i would appreciate a write up on possible solutions to the concerns you have raised since they are well thought Regards On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 10:15 PM, Alvin Jason Ochieng <ajochola@gmail.com>wrote:
Aki I totally agree.........
On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 9:51 PM, aki<aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 9:26 PM, Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com
wrote:
Take heart... change is coming:-)
@Alex, self defeating ? Is cheaper internet going to make operational costs cheaper? I don't think so. Internet is a very small corner of expenditure of most businesses. The effects are not going to be felt to except those who are doing large established turnovers. The majority rest will continue to feel the effects of almost fake economies i.e expensive borrowing, lack of loan peformances, a glut in unemployment and its effects, physical security business doing booming business and cost of food, fuel, rent, electricity, transport remains high.The Internet is also not going to change anyones lives in slum or informal settlement areas who will continue crying out for food, basic needs and a better future.
Indeed, banks and other servcie sectors have led the way in conmen schemes out to steal and exploit the country with the BIG green light from governance.
Try borrowing on that 14-17% on loans and see if it makes any business sense to be doing so, unless it can be passed on to end users and higher pricing..... :-)
Rgds.
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--
Regards, Alvin Ochieng - Corporate Account Manager GREENLINE TECHNOLOGY LIMITED| IT solutions Odyssey Plaza 2nd Floor| Mukoma Road | Box 61895-00200 Nairobi. |+254.20. 651755 / 552086 Fax +254.20-559841. **Wireless - 020-2405225 / 020 - 2429734 ** CellPhone – 0722-219938 / 0733610758 Help save paper - do you need to print this email? _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general
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banks are charging more because telecoms are stealing their customers thus continually making them irrelevant. M-Pesa - a good example and shifted billions to mobicos proof. Why cheap internet will reverse that is because we shall retain those billions in our wallets - there will less demand to borrow, and we may actually use banks some more, hence their rates may drop and expect new third party payment systems away from telcos-owned. All this hinges on us ensuring that telcos stop exploiting us on communication- a basic human right. So we intensify our fight with telcos, and whatever circumstances have perpetuated the current state of consumer.. i.e. banks are the 'old' problem, our new 'problem' is telcos.. I bet my lunch on that:-) On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 9:51 PM, aki<aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 9:26 PM, Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> wrote:
Take heart... change is coming:-)
@Alex, self defeating ? Is cheaper internet going to make operational costs cheaper? I don't think so. Internet is a very small corner of expenditure of most businesses. The effects are not going to be felt to except those who are doing large established turnovers. The majority rest will continue to feel the effects of almost fake economies i.e expensive borrowing, lack of loan peformances, a glut in unemployment and its effects, physical security business doing booming business and cost of food, fuel, rent, electricity, transport remains high.The Internet is also not going to change anyones lives in slum or informal settlement areas who will continue crying out for food, basic needs and a better future.
Indeed, banks and other servcie sectors have led the way in conmen schemes out to steal and exploit the country with the BIG green light from governance.
Try borrowing on that 14-17% on loans and see if it makes any business sense to be doing so, unless it can be passed on to end users and higher pricing..... :-)
Rgds.
Let us put some things in perspective. Assumption: banks are not charities. The owners of the banks have to put in 1,000 million shillings as capital to run the bank. They are then encouraged to give loans to our people to enable the economy to grow. Now, if I put in 1 billion shillings in a business, and you want to borrow money from me, it will be at a price,.. and you had better be serious! Dont tell me you want the money for a business that cannot bring back at least 20% returns in profit - you are simply going to rob my cash. The same goes for the internet. If I have spent billions of shillings to lay a cable from here to the middle east, i am going to charge what i can to recover most of my setup costs. Then I will start charging to cover my maintenance & operation costs plus some profit. There are no 2 ways about it,.. again assuming this is not charity. In fact, I am usually a bit miffed when we say this business or that company is fleecing people. Well, if you applied for a job there you would like to be well paid, right? If you supply to the company you would like your invoices to be honoured, right? If you bought shares in the company you would like to have a good dividend, right? -- Davis Waithaka <daviswaithaka@gmail.com> Systems Kenya Solutions On Mon, 2009-08-31 at 05:40 +0300, Gakuru Alex wrote:
banks are charging more because telecoms are stealing their customers thus continually making them irrelevant. M-Pesa - a good example and shifted billions to mobicos proof. Why cheap internet will reverse that is because we shall retain those billions in our wallets - there will less demand to borrow, and we may actually use banks some more, hence their rates may drop and expect new third party payment systems away from telcos-owned. All this hinges on us ensuring that telcos stop exploiting us on communication- a basic human right. So we intensify our fight with telcos, and whatever circumstances have perpetuated the current state of consumer.. i.e. banks are the 'old' problem, our new 'problem' is telcos.. I bet my lunch on that:-)
On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 9:51 PM, aki<aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 9:26 PM, Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> wrote:
Take heart... change is coming:-)
@Alex, self defeating ? Is cheaper internet going to make operational costs cheaper? I don't think so. Internet is a very small corner of expenditure of most businesses. The effects are not going to be felt to except those who are doing large established turnovers. The majority rest will continue to feel the effects of almost fake economies i.e expensive borrowing, lack of loan peformances, a glut in unemployment and its effects, physical security business doing booming business and cost of food, fuel, rent, electricity, transport remains high.The Internet is also not going to change anyones lives in slum or informal settlement areas who will continue crying out for food, basic needs and a better future.
Indeed, banks and other servcie sectors have led the way in conmen schemes out to steal and exploit the country with the BIG green light from governance.
Try borrowing on that 14-17% on loans and see if it makes any business sense to be doing so, unless it can be passed on to end users and higher pricing..... :-)
Rgds.
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true,, true... Sacco = 1% per month Some bank in Nairobi claims that if you do a fixed deposit with them, they will do a 1% daily interest for you - and you can bail out any time... [minimum of 100k and above deposit] So I asked, ' how do you finance my 1% daily ? ' And they said, 'by giving loans of cos.. ' This is the way banks should make money, loans and assets - but not charging clients some stupid commissions.. There is a bank that charges ksh. 250 per page for your bank statement [dont forget, they are the ones keeping your money] -- others, email you the statement [free of charge] You also spoke of oil,, oil companies are the fishiest beings on earth -- reason ? Just before we elect a Politician or MP - you will hear them speaking vehemently against oil and gas prices, and the way mwananchi is suffering and therefore has to cut the Mau forest to survive... Shortly after being elected - the guy goes as quiet as a million light year space explosion - Why is this ?
@Davis, 20% is a huge return, no wonder economy of numbers will never work in kenya and expenses keep rising. Your 20% model only caters for middle income and higher. Vast majority is left out and cannot participate ever in their lifetime. But you are right, I propose that we join the circus of business models that target middle income and above ( the govt doing is also using this approach ), create a switerzland type of economy for the affordables alone. Middle income is running kenyan economy thru taxes. And plenty are building business models around it, creating niche markets. So banks giving out loans at current rates only help niche users. Wengine watafute pesa with their own methods. If you read my first line, this is the first pitfall. Prices will never drop in kenya. 6% deposit and 14-17% on borrowing? This is a rip off but it works. Pass the cost to the target markets end users. Rgds. On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 10:49 AM, Davis Waithaka <daviswaithaka@gmail.com>wrote:
Let us put some things in perspective. Assumption: banks are not charities. The owners of the banks have to put in 1,000 million shillings as capital to run the bank. They are then encouraged to give loans to our people to enable the economy to grow. Now, if I put in 1 billion shillings in a business, and you want to borrow money from me, it will be at a price,.. and you had better be serious! Dont tell me you want the money for a business that cannot bring back at least 20% returns in profit - you are simply going to rob my cash.
Very well said Davis. Too add on (another perspective): There is pricing that messes up business. Internet connectivity costs are just too high. According to http://www.internetworldstats.com/africa.htm, Kenya has only 17,700 broadband subscribers as of June 2009 and 3.359 Million Internet users. If we do our trade and governance right, Internet users in Kenya will triple in the next 3 years (to 10M+ users = about 25% of our population then). Charging Kenyans USD 100 for 1Mbs is not viable for anyone in the long run. We appreciate it is still 30-50 times less than was required a short while ago but .. A Kenyan in Canada recently told Skunkworks they are getting up to 6Mbs (Download) and 1Mbs (Upload) for USD 40 per month. Is it too much to ask for i. Up to 512kbs for USD 20.00 (with a minimum 10GB per month cap) - Parliament.go.ke should legislate this as a Kenyan Internet Right if CCK cannot enforce it. How else do we promote e-learning (streaming low quality video) and other types of e-transactions NOW? ii. Up to 1.5Mbs for USD 30.00 (with a 20-30GB cap per month) ii. Up to 3Mbs for USD 50.00 (with a 60-80 GB cap per month). How else is it possible to get 1 million broadband subscribers (and 10M+ internet users) in 3 years time. It will also make Application Service Providers viable who will buy more bandwidth from Telcos to make their Apps more accessible to the 10M+ internet users. What are the 1Million Laptops for? Offline computing? Why are we building roads to most parts of Kenya now for? Is it not to make new towns, trade and farm produce viable and more accessible? Why are we tripling our electricity generation capacity over the next 3 years? Is it not to enlighten more Kenyans and to power computers and base stations? If prices are not dramatically lowered IMMEDIATELY internet uptake and development in Kenya is just going to be delayed. How are investors in Fibre (marine and terrestrial) going to recoup their costs with 50,000 broadband subscribers in Kenya (and the EAC)? It is very encouraging to hear the Kenyan Govt will punish Public Officers who pay / buy bandwidth for more than USD 600.00 per MB (non contended) - here henceforth. Beware! On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 10:49 AM, Davis Waithaka <daviswaithaka@gmail.com>wrote:
The same goes for the internet. If I have spent billions of shillings to lay a cable from here to the middle east, i am going to charge what i can to recover most of my setup costs. Then I will start charging to cover my maintenance & operation costs plus some profit. There are no 2 ways about it,.. again assuming this is not charity.
In fact, I am usually a bit miffed when we say this business or that company is fleecing people. Well, if you applied for a job there you would like to be well paid, right? If you supply to the company you would like your invoices to be honoured, right? If you bought shares in the company you would like to have a good dividend, right?
-- Davis Waithaka <daviswaithaka@gmail.com> Systems Kenya Solutions
On Mon, 2009-08-31 at 05:40 +0300, Gakuru Alex wrote:
banks are charging more because telecoms are stealing their customers thus continually making them irrelevant. M-Pesa - a good example and shifted billions to mobicos proof. Why cheap internet will reverse that is because we shall retain those billions in our wallets - there will less demand to borrow, and we may actually use banks some more, hence their rates may drop and expect new third party payment systems away from telcos-owned. All this hinges on us ensuring that telcos stop exploiting us on communication- a basic human right. So we intensify our fight with telcos, and whatever circumstances have perpetuated the current state of consumer.. i.e. banks are the 'old' problem, our new 'problem' is telcos.. I bet my lunch on that:-)
On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 9:51 PM, aki<aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 9:26 PM, Gakuru Alex < alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> wrote:
Take heart... change is coming:-)
@Alex, self defeating ? Is cheaper internet going to make operational costs cheaper? I don't think so. Internet is a very small corner of expenditure of most businesses. The effects are not going to be felt to except those who are doing large established turnovers. The majority rest will continue to feel the effects of almost fake economies i.e expensive borrowing, lack of loan peformances, a glut in unemployment and its effects, physical security business doing booming business and cost of food, fuel, rent, electricity, transport remains high.The Internet is also not going to change anyones lives in slum or informal settlement areas who will continue crying out for food, basic needs and a better future.
Indeed, banks and other servcie sectors have led the way in conmen schemes out to steal and exploit the country with the BIG green light from governance.
Try borrowing on that 14-17% on loans and see if it makes any business sense to be doing so, unless it can be passed on to end users and higher pricing..... :-)
Rgds.
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@Murigi, in the case of internet, economy drive to empower just middle class and higher means that the business models are just meant to work in urban areas which are the main business targets for the internet sector. This takes us back to the core problem. Financial sector and it is this sector alone that will cripple the country and development. Such economies tend to have bigger problems and smaller solutions. Clear cut case of a runaway greed manifesting into slowed growth and poorer citizens. It will not stop, same as the rush to Nairobi to get jobs while living in tin shacks and bleak futures. Even middle class is being drained by dependents of families who they need to support financially. My thots.. over and out.
Aki You feel so strongly about these things. But the real problem with third world countries and failed states is lack of visionary leadership. You can have all the good plans, fast internet and access to finance but with poor leadership it will amount to nothing. The largest economic leap in the United States is largely attributed to the rail system and later to the Interstate Highway System, a brainchild of President Eisenhower., Do you think we will ever have someone great to come up with a project as large as the Interstate is? We plan to build 30 km of 6 lane highways and hail those as achievements? They are not. Even the fiber cables are very small projects. What is first internet without the services (providers and consumers) alike? These are means to an end, they are not ends themselves. We are truly doomed.
There is the problem of most small and mid sized businesses always trying to rip off ignorant customers. As such, start ups like chekelea tend to have a hard time convincing skeptical customers. also, we tend to capitalise on how far people have schooled rather than what they know. We d rather employ a professor as our consultant than Aki. The professor comes from an institution that takes 200 ict students through 35 hours of programming in C with one tutor and grades them. that is why they call us developing countries On 31/08/2009, Philip Musyoki <pmusyoki@gmail.com> wrote:
Aki
You feel so strongly about these things.
But the real problem with third world countries and failed states is lack of visionary leadership. You can have all the good plans, fast internet and access to finance but with poor leadership it will amount to nothing.
The largest economic leap in the United States is largely attributed to the rail system and later to the Interstate Highway System, a brainchild of President Eisenhower., Do you think we will ever have someone great to come up with a project as large as the Interstate is? We plan to build 30 km of 6 lane highways and hail those as achievements? They are not.
Even the fiber cables are very small projects. What is first internet without the services (providers and consumers) alike? These are means to an end, they are not ends themselves.
We are truly doomed.
-- with Regards: Kazi kwa vijana and other idiots, all at my blog: http://gramware.blogspot.com
On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 6:28 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
There is the problem of most small and mid sized businesses always trying to rip off ignorant customers.
Boss Dennis LOL! the thread has nothing to do with chekelea or anything else. :-) Rather a look into why and whats. I wish there was an easier way to put the message across and then you may see how deadly the borrowing situation is. Anyway, I tried my best. *As an final contribute to the thread, pls consider this : Dennis wants to setup a proper hosting service ( not an attempt to setup one with old machines) :* - 2 commercial servers with mirror services = Ksh 2 million - Tech rack, UPS = Ksh 1 million - Misc expense = Ksh 0.5 million - First year running expense, including rent, 4 staff salaries and 6 month advertisement costs = Ksh 1.2 Million - Second year partial expense, including the above = Ksh 0.6 Million Project Grand costs total = Ksh 5.3 Million. Borrow Grand total amount from the bank, monthly repayments @ 60 months = Average Ksh 120,000 per month / Ksh 1.44 Million PA. Add bank loan repayment and first year expenses = Ksh 2.64 Million. Now work out the sale pricing : ? HTHs.
i guess we are now left with angel investors. the stock exchange was taken over long time ago by brokers aka insider traders On 01/09/2009, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 6:28 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
There is the problem of most small and mid sized businesses always trying to rip off ignorant customers.
Boss Dennis LOL! the thread has nothing to do with chekelea or anything else. :-)
Rather a look into why and whats. I wish there was an easier way to put the message across and then you may see how deadly the borrowing situation is. Anyway, I tried my best.
*As an final contribute to the thread, pls consider this : Dennis wants to setup a proper hosting service ( not an attempt to setup one with old machines) :*
- 2 commercial servers with mirror services = Ksh 2 million
- Tech rack, UPS = Ksh 1 million
- Misc expense = Ksh 0.5 million
- First year running expense, including rent, 4 staff salaries and 6 month advertisement costs = Ksh 1.2 Million
- Second year partial expense, including the above = Ksh 0.6 Million
Project Grand costs total = Ksh 5.3 Million.
Borrow Grand total amount from the bank, monthly repayments @ 60 months = Average Ksh 120,000 per month / Ksh 1.44 Million PA.
Add bank loan repayment and first year expenses = Ksh 2.64 Million.
Now work out the sale pricing : ?
HTHs.
-- with Regards: Kazi kwa vijana and other idiots, all at my blog: http://gramware.blogspot.com
Please note comments in the provided link. Ma maa maaapaambano maaapambano maaapambano .... 100Mbps Internet Connection For 11 *USD* Per Month - Boing Boing<http://boingboing.net/2009/02/17/japan-internet-connection.html>Speed tests pretty reliably pull 5.8Mbps and *512K* respectively. *....* *20*-25 Megs down/ 1.5-2 Megs upload. 70 *USD* per month, Comcast on the central coast of *...* boingboing.net/2009/02/17/japan-internet-connection.html On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 4:41 PM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
@Murigi, in the case of internet, economy drive to empower just middle class and higher means that the business models are just meant to work in urban areas which are the main business targets for the internet sector. This takes us back to the core problem. Financial sector and it is this sector alone that will cripple the country and development. Such economies tend to have bigger problems and smaller solutions. Clear cut case of a runaway greed manifesting into slowed growth and poorer citizens. It will not stop, same as the rush to Nairobi to get jobs while living in tin shacks and bleak futures. Even middle class is being drained by dependents of families who they need to support financially. My thots.. over and out.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general
Internet costs has for a very long time been our biggest problem. Use http://www.convert-me.com/en/convert/data_transfer_rate to divide 1 500 MB (Dec 2008) by 3,500,000 internet users to get an average of 0.0004285 MB/s per user at what prices? And remember unlimited fixed-charge tariffs have been silently scrapped now.... I compare internet sale in Kenya to drugs business - give users just some good amount until they get hooked then charge them a fortune thereafter... and they then compete at becoming the most profitable companies around.. Tomorrow may as well be a defining moment for Kenya's future ecomony, social and political dimensions. We just cannot sit and let telecommunication companies steal our future from us and future generations right in front of our very eyes. This is a promise!!! On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 8:09 PM, Murigi Muraya<mmskunkworks@gmail.com> wrote:
Please note comments in the provided link. Ma maa maaapaambano maaapambano maaapambano ....
100Mbps Internet Connection For 11 USD Per Month - Boing Boing
Speed tests pretty reliably pull 5.8Mbps and 512K respectively. .... 20-25 Megs down/ 1.5-2 Megs upload. 70 USD per month, Comcast on the central coast of ... boingboing.net/2009/02/17/japan-internet-connection.html
On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 4:41 PM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
@Murigi, in the case of internet, economy drive to empower just middle class and higher means that the business models are just meant to work in urban areas which are the main business targets for the internet sector. This takes us back to the core problem. Financial sector and it is this sector alone that will cripple the country and development. Such economies tend to have bigger problems and smaller solutions. Clear cut case of a runaway greed manifesting into slowed growth and poorer citizens. It will not stop, same as the rush to Nairobi to get jobs while living in tin shacks and bleak futures. Even middle class is being drained by dependents of families who they need to support financially. My thots.. over and out.
All these companies Hinge on the fact that the average Kenyan wanting to download a document or read his email doesn't know what the guy in the UK sending him the Email is paying for his Internet connection. . .. look at the mobile revolution case. . . .3G enabled handsets used to sell for upwards of 70,000/- back in 2004 but know fetch 12k. . .the less you know the more likely you will glibly swallow what the seemingly sharp salesman says. . . .. . On 8/31/09, Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com> wrote:
Internet costs has for a very long time been our biggest problem. Use http://www.convert-me.com/en/convert/data_transfer_rate to divide 1 500 MB (Dec 2008) by 3,500,000 internet users to get an average of 0.0004285 MB/s per user at what prices? And remember unlimited fixed-charge tariffs have been silently scrapped now.... I compare internet sale in Kenya to drugs business - give users just some good amount until they get hooked then charge them a fortune thereafter... and they then compete at becoming the most profitable companies around..
Tomorrow may as well be a defining moment for Kenya's future ecomony, social and political dimensions. We just cannot sit and let telecommunication companies steal our future from us and future generations right in front of our very eyes. This is a promise!!!
On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 8:09 PM, Murigi Muraya<mmskunkworks@gmail.com> wrote:
Please note comments in the provided link. Ma maa maaapaambano maaapambano maaapambano ....
100Mbps Internet Connection For 11 USD Per Month - Boing Boing
Speed tests pretty reliably pull 5.8Mbps and 512K respectively. .... 20-25 Megs down/ 1.5-2 Megs upload. 70 USD per month, Comcast on the central coast of ... boingboing.net/2009/02/17/japan-internet-connection.html
On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 4:41 PM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
@Murigi, in the case of internet, economy drive to empower just middle class and higher means that the business models are just meant to work in urban areas which are the main business targets for the internet sector. This takes us back to the core problem. Financial sector and it is this sector alone that will cripple the country and development. Such economies tend to have bigger problems and smaller solutions. Clear cut case of a runaway greed manifesting into slowed growth and poorer citizens. It will not stop, same as the rush to Nairobi to get jobs while living in tin shacks and bleak futures. Even middle class is being drained by dependents of families who they need to support financially. My thots.. over and out.
Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general
-- Regards, Mark Mwangi http://mwangy.wordpress.com
If hadn't then please download their prices http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/18/31/41551958. Flabbergasting!!! On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 10:32 PM, Mark Mwangi<mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
All these companies Hinge on the fact that the average Kenyan wanting to download a document or read his email doesn't know what the guy in the UK sending him the Email is paying for his Internet connection. . .. look at the mobile revolution case. . . .3G enabled handsets used to sell for upwards of 70,000/- back in 2004 but know fetch 12k. . .the less you know the more likely you will glibly swallow what the seemingly sharp salesman says. . . .. .
On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 9:10 PM, aki<aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
Our economy encourages "matope tupu" schemes and a conman system in place to encourage theft and exploitation. Banks : Openly tell you deposit maximum interest rates @ 6% while borrowing loan rates @ 14-17%!!
giving loans is always a risky proposition for banks. this is nothing unique to kenya. i am sure if you look at average loan default rates in the recent past, they have perhaps been very high (economic downturn, post-election violence etc...) . if you are a low risk individual (e.g. someone with lots of property as collateral and a long and happy credit rating) - then the banks will probably lend you money at a much lower interest rate than the one mentioned above. otherwise, most people are gonna fall into the 'high risk lending category' -- where the bank rates you as probable defaulter and lends you money at a higher interest rate (i.e. the high risk --> high returns proposition).
participants (11)
-
aki -
Alvin Jason Ochieng -
ashok+skunkworks＠parliaments.info -
Barrack Otieno -
Davis Waithaka -
Dennis Kioko -
Gakuru Alex -
Mark Mwangi -
Murigi Muraya -
ndungu stephen -
Philip Musyoki