Re: [Skunkworks] Experienced Mobile App Developers
As Peter just said reminds me of the words"there are known knowns,known unknowns and also unkown unknowns...things we dont know that we dont know"i bet this applies to all of us and as the experienced" so called old school"you cannot blame the upcoming breed of next generation class of developers and programmers as in this ever evolving complex and.competitive environment we are in a rush to find our niche and our place in order to adapt so dont blame us for not wanting to reinvent the wheel and start from scratch we are victims not only of the global environment but also circumstances we find ourselves in.the current education system has greatly emphasised on acquiring mere competencies in languages and programming environments and specialization is curved out individually therefore the chance of such an person existing though minimal is recognizable.That kind of person is not only an expert but a legend Peter Karunyu via skunkworks <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Guys, my premise here is simple; just because I cant do something does't mean someone else cant. And just because I don't know someone who can do that thing I can't doesn't mean that that someone doesn't exist.
Maybe there is a better name for it, but you don't know what you don't know.
On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 3:26 PM, John K. via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
It's sad but I agree with your last statement, younger engineers will never need to know about Netscape or the chip instruction set. But, they would be better off if they did. Just as we use electricity not fully acknowledging how far electrical engineering has come, from a few charged particles in a liquid solution, to griping about no wall sockets to charge your phone in your local pub
Guess that's just how life goes. As I read somewhere many moons ago, "Lucky is a man who lives to witness his accomplishments swiftly utilised and accepted as the standard, as his successors will undoubtedly assume they would have achieved similar outcomes, had they been offered the opportunity."
Regards, John K.
On 15 August 2015 at 14:04, Jangita via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Very true.
It's actually quite interesting on how programming has become. I might be one of those "old school" people who have an aversion towards modern languages; from the days of interrupt vector tables and TSRs, mixing assembly language with turbo pascal and C. Actually reading the 8086/88 instruction set, then moving into turbo-vision into pascal for windows and watching delphi and other languages take shape. Also the mentioned Dunning-Kruger effect <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect> affects many programmers, partially maybe because most start as "lone rangers" and entering into a world where it is proven that several minds are always better than one.
One thing I have realised is the similarity to other forms of skill, for example aviation, where pilots had to be qualified aeronautical, mechanical and electrical engineers, actually understanding how most components are put together and the physics of how they work. Nowadays you are taught how to fly the aircraft and trust your instruments. I bet old school pilots hate the new ones.
I guess it depends on the skill level required and "depth" of the project vis a vis curd vs gaming engine, developing vs reusing, time, target market etc. Get a market researcher, then a systems analyst, then get your coders, then testers, quality controllers, version controllers, release managers, support staff etc.
Eventually web developers will never need to know netscape and app devs will never need to know about the chip's instruction set!
On 15 August 2015 at 10:40, John K. via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
We're talking about writing the code, it's been properly designed, laid out etc. In my view, it's one thing to write a simple crud app and another to write a 16x16 pvp multiplayer game, doesn't matter how good a coder you are, code as complex as modern games, machine learning algo's, rdbms engines, os kernels etc requires collaboration, code review, unit testing and round after round of QA testing.
I've also come to realise that programmers are the ones who suffer the most from the Dunning-Kruger effect <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect>. The tone and sheer arrogance I've heard from coders over the years is amazing, you'd think they'd apprenticed under Torvalds. I consider myself an intermediate developer at best and I come from an era where there was only Netscape and no JavaScript, let alone jQuery. If you'are a web developer and don't know what Netscape is, then you're in more trouble than you know.
ᐧ
Regards, John K.
On 15 August 2015 at 08:41, Chris Ochieng <chris@aellogroup.com> wrote:
Interesting. I've always thought that the strength of any development (be it wireshark or a calculator) comes from how your structure the app as a whole in pseudo code or flow chart or some sort of high level process flow on feature, function, look and feel, and to do this one should understand things like conditional statements, flow control, loops, namespaces, sub routines and so on. At least that's how I approach any project, simple or complex. I put 85% and sometimes 90% of the time just thinking and "designing" the app or apps. After that is when I turn it into code, at which point I'd either choose the best language or the fastest depending on the maintenance cycle and time (money) allocated to the task. I doubt these days programming languages compete in features. I bet you can write wireshark in php if you had the time. All in all, the "conversion" into code is usually the least of my worries, and takes the littlest of time, even if I was to roll out my python/django apps in symfony2 (for me)
Chris +230 5923 7648 / +254 737 996532 Please consider the environment before printing this email.
On 14 August 2015 at 12:05, John K. via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
I also used to think that the is 'the one' true coder that is a master in all the major languages but as I've grown older I've come to realise that this is not the matrix and that person does not exist. It takes years to truly master any platform, take any of those programmers and have them write a suitably complex app like say Wireshark on windows, linux, and mac in reasonable amount of time and I watch the excuses begin.
In my experience, nobody is a master at everything, but please prove me wrong, I am ready to concede if you can show me Neo.
Regards, John K.
On 14 August 2015 at 10:07, Bwana Lawi via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
> http://norvig.com/21-days.html > > It's possible to get a developer who is good in many languages. Even > here in Kenya we have many. It's very difficult to get a *programmer* who > is good in multiple languages. > > On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 9:47 AM, Peter Karunyu via skunkworks < > skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote: > >> @Nicholas Peters, its not about recruiters *collecting vocabularies*, >> its knowing what they want and what they can get. >> >> Such multi-skilled developers do exist right here on this beautiful >> country of ours. A lot more exist on the other side of the ocean. >> >> And people are different, people learn faster than others, or our >> brains are setup differently, or we have different levels of self >> motivation and focus. Whatever it is, it is possible to master iOS, Android >> and PHP. >> >> Often, we developers assume that our personal limitations exist for >> everyone. >> >> >> >> On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 12:36 AM, Kinpro Computers-All IT soutions >> via skunkworks <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote: >> >>> To be fair, I normally loose lots of tricks when i spend sometimes >>> in other frameworks or languages.I also need some times and coding before i >>> get used to some tricks in new languages or environments.IT happens even in >>> sports,coordination of mind and body would take some practices. >>> >>> I normally lough when I see these kind of job ads.Most of the time >>> experience goes against creativity ,if someone is not careful. >>> >>> I think serious employer should separate concerns for IOS/Android >>> they are two different camps/religions ,but recruiters keep of adding up >>> things as if they are collecting vocabularies. Naive programmers would >>> attempt everything and would finally be good in nothing.Who would keep up >>> with version releases, bug fixing ..political fights btn the apple/google >>> etc.? >>> -- >>> >>> Regards, >>> Nicholas Peter.* >>> Kinpro Computers.* >>> *Box:*16954,Arusha. >>> *Tel :*+255 732 972287. >>> *Mobile**:* +255 754 914652 >>> *Email: *kinprocomputers@gmail.com >>> =============================================== >>> Products: >>> Software systems for :School management, Point of Sale, >>> >>> >>> ..... >>> On 13 August 2015 at 15:56, John K. via skunkworks < >>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote: >>> >>> > OT: Is it just me or I'd think a person 'good' in all those >>> technologies >>> > is an expert of none of them? Sorry to hijack your post. :) >>> > >>> > Regards, >>> > John K. >>> > >>> > On 13 August 2015 at 12:15, Aladin Khedira via skunkworks < >>> > skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote: >>> > >>> >> Got this here below off Shikala Mwachi's Facebook Post: >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Hello People, I am urgently seeking 2 experienced mobile app >>> developers >>> >> with the following profile: >>> >> >>> >> - Deep knowledge and experience with iOS and Android native Apps >>> >> development >>> >> >>> >> - Experience with mobile application development environments >>> >> >>> >> - Good understanding of web technologies (HTML, CSS, JQuery, >>> Ajax and PHP) >>> >> >>> >> - Knowledge of databases (MySql) >>> >> >>> >> - Very good knowledge / programming skills in Objective-C (IOS >>> Apps) >>> >> >>> >> - Very good knowledge / programming skills in JAVA (Android Apps) >>> >> >>> >> The successful candidates will initially start as project staff >>> in Kenya >>> >> and if they prove competent, later work from the clients head >>> office in >>> >> Germany. >>> >> >>> >> Please share widely. Interested parties can email me at >>> paul@isys.co.ke >>> >> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> skunkworks mailing list >>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>> ------------ >>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>> ------------ >>> >>> Skunkworks Rules >>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>> ------------ >>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> skunkworks mailing list >> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >> ------------ >> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >> ------------ >> >> Skunkworks Rules >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >> ------------ >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >> > > > _______________________________________________ > skunkworks mailing list > skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > ------------ > List info, subscribe/unsubscribe > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
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Alex Kairu Kariuki